Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BONUS: Fake Uber Driver Stabs Beloved College Student Over 120 Times When She Gets Into Wrong Car. VERDICT, GUILTY!

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BONUS: Fake Uber Driver Stabs Beloved College Student Over 120 Times When She Gets Into Wrong Car. VERDICT, GUILTY! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm Jackie Howard. After a seven day twil
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: a jury deliberated for less than two hours before returning
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a guilty verdict for Nathaniel Rowland in the kidnapping and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: murder of University of South Carolina student Samantha Josephson. Police
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and prosecutors say twenty one year old Josephson had been
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: out with friends in Columbia's Five Points district. She called
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: an uber to get home and then mistakenly got into
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the wrong car and impalla owned by Nathaniel Rowland. Samantha
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Josephson's body was found by hunters hours later amid the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: brush in a field seventy miles or so from Columbia.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Joining me now is Joscod Morgan, professor of forensics Jacksonville
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: State University and author of Blood Beneath My Joe. Before
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: we dive into the forensics and the details of this case,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: let's take a listen to some of Mom Marcy Josephson's
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: victim impact statement. I closed my eyes and let go
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: when she endured in his hands one hundred and twenty times,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: over and over and over fighting for her life locked
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: in his car. I used to have dreams for her.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Now will I have a nightmares? A hundred twenty times
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  Speaker 1: the final moments for very faking and fighting for her.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I visualized blood flowing from her body, her beautiful body,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: A hundred and twenty times. For what That's where we start, Joe.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Forensic pathologist doctor Thomas Beaver with Medical University of South
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Carolina told the jury that Jessison was stabbed over one
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty times. Yeah, doctor, doctor Beavers, you know
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you have those uh moment months many times in court
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and whenever you get a pro like this forensic pathologist
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that sits on the stand and he says, I stopped
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: counting at one hundred and twenty nine times, and that
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that's that's verbatim, one hundred and twenty I stopped counting there.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: That gives you the gravity of what we're talking about here.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: This this trauma that was inflicted on on Samantha, or
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: as her family called her family called her Sammy. Uh,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: this this trauma that she endured. And trust me, it
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: was beyond anything that that I even have the words
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to describe, because it was so so very violent, and
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know when he goes into this, he's he's not
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: just describing stab wounds, which in forensic pathologists, in forensic pathology,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: what we refer to as sharp force injuries, we can
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: either have slices or stabs. These are stab wounds. But
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: also she had these unique injuries that were abrasions, which
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: all of us can identify with scrapes, that sort of thing.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And then she had contusions, these bruises, and they all
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: kind of centered around the stab wounds. And the reason
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: behind this is very unique, and that's because he this
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this perpetrator used a weapon that many of us have seen,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: some of us have them, and it's a it's a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: called a multitool. And you see, you know electricians and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you know hunters and all kinds of people that wear
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: them in a little pouch on their belt and it
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: has pliers in it. You know, it's got a file.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: It's even got a little saw blade on some of them.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: It's got a court screw. I've even used the courtscrew.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I've got one. I've used courtscrew is when I've been
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: out camping my wife and I side. I've had a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: class one. But Jackie, I gotta tell you. In this
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: particular case, it is actually postulated that he used both blades,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that there were blades on both ends of this thing,
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  Speaker 1: and he deployed these blades so that it's almost like
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  Speaker 1: a reverse scissor where you have, you know, the scissors
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: are kind of outward or a kind of linear straight.
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  Speaker 1: These are kind of peeked in to form like a
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  Speaker 1: V and he begins stabbing her. So every time he
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  Speaker 1: buries these blades into her flesh, it's leaving behind these
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: little abrasions, these little contusions that actually match up with
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the underside of this multi tool, and so it made
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: it kind of difficult to interpret. But what we can
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: sumize at the end of the day is that there
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: were too many to count, and I don't know that
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  Speaker 1: we can act ever begin to measure the horror that
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Sammy endured. I'm having a real difficult time wrapping my
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: head around what has happened here, Joe, because number one,
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  Speaker 1: how long does it actually take, even in a frenzy
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  Speaker 1: to stab someone over one hundred and twenty times? And
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: what does that do to a body? The fact that
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: there were so many injuries gives us an indication that
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  Speaker 1: this perpetrator would have had to expend and excruciating long
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: time with her because this is no small act. First off,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: there's evidence in the back of the car where she
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: would have been transported that she may have fought back.
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  Speaker 1: In one kind of really telling moment here the sled
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  Speaker 1: personnel that's the State of South Carolina's law enforcement agency,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: kind of state police, they detail a footprint on the
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: inside of the rear window, like you know, she's flailing
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  Speaker 1: for her life and she actually puts her foot on
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the window, leaving an impression up there in this very
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: confined space. He would have had to have taken a
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: protracted period of time because just to imagine this repetitive
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: event over and over, and this is no small task.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: It takes a tremendous amount of energy to drive this instrument.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And it's not like a regular knife that I can't
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: emphasize that enough. It's not like a single bladed butcher knife.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: This is something that's kind of blunted. It has a
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: sharp end on it, but there's also other elements of
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: it that are blunted. So it would have taken a
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  Speaker 1: tremendous amount of force to go through not just skin
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: but muscle. Send you bone and then down into her
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  Speaker 1: internal viscera, into her organs, and so this is done
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  Speaker 1: over her and over and over again. It is not
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  Speaker 1: it is not beyond reasonable to think that he would
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  Speaker 1: have literally exerted himself to the point where he is
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  Speaker 1: sweating during this period of time. He is just driving
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  Speaker 1: this weapon into her over and over again, and it
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  Speaker 1: would have I don't know that there's necessarily a measure,
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  Speaker 1: but I do know this. What was fascinating about this
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: case is that someone had locked used the child locks
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: for the rear doors on this vehicle. So when she
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: would have gotten into the vehicle, guess what, she couldn't
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  Speaker 1: have escaped. And by the time she realized this wasn't
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  Speaker 1: her uber driver, you can imagine panic had begun to
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: set in. And you know, like has been said, she
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  Speaker 1: was found well in excess of sixty miles away from
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  Speaker 1: downtown Columbia, South Carolina. She was found along always away
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  Speaker 1: and what we would referred to as the sticks her
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: body wasn't wasn't found until some hunters came along and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: found her. Some turkey hunters. Actually Jill what was the
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: primary location of the stab wounds on her body where
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: they primarily in the torso. Yes, these injuries, the injuries
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: that she sustained, were concentrated in the torso. And I
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  Speaker 1: think that our listeners, our listeners are so bright that
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Nancy has and I know that I know they'll understand
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  Speaker 1: this when you're in a confined space and everybody can
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: identify with being in the back of a four door sedan. Okay,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's a tiny area. It's not like you're in your bedroom. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: there's very little room to move around. It's not like
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  Speaker 1: you can extend yourself across the room away from an individual.
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  Speaker 1: At most you might have a foot to two feet
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  Speaker 1: of clearance if you really press it out. So her,
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  Speaker 1: these injuries she sustained were concentrated, you know, from the
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  Speaker 1: neck region all the way down to the torso. And
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  Speaker 1: there's evidence that she had thrown up her arm as well,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: where she's got these contusions that are covering her hands
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  Speaker 1: in her arms, and of course we all know what
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  Speaker 1: that means. That's an indication of what we referred to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: as defensive injuries. That she had an awareness, she had
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  Speaker 1: an awareness that she was being attacked. This is not like,
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  Speaker 1: this is not like you see in some kind of
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  Speaker 1: movie where someone took a knife and essentially, you know,
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  Speaker 1: drove it into the base of her brain or cut
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  Speaker 1: her throat, where you know, life just suddenly left her body.
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  Speaker 1: This is something that she was very, very painfully and
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: acutely aware of that was hattening to her. And you
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  Speaker 1: couple that with the panic of not being able to
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  Speaker 1: escape from this confined space to the fact that she
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: suddenly came face to face with this monster, and she
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  Speaker 1: probably had an awareness that her life was about to
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  Speaker 1: end out there in this desolate, abandoned area. Crime stories
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, this crime scene the impelled a crime
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  Speaker 1: scene on wheels. Josephson's blood was sound everywhere inside this car,
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  Speaker 1: a large amount of blood. In fact, the pathologist said
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that almost every drop of blood was gone from her body. Yeah,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: just let that sink in just for a moment when
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  Speaker 1: you began to think that the pathologist said that every drop.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I think, with the exception of possibly, I think the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: pathologists framed it as maybe a couple of tablespoons. Everybody
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  Speaker 1: knows what a tablespoon is. It's gone. And this in
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: forensic terms, this is what we referred to as exanguination.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of a fancy word for saying she bled
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  Speaker 1: to death, and that means that he insulted her body enough.
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  Speaker 1: He insulted her body enough with this weapon that there
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  Speaker 1: were so many defects in her body, so many stab wounds,
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  Speaker 1: that all of the blood, all of the blood literally
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: came out. And let me tell you another chilling part
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  Speaker 1: to this. The fact that the blood came out of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: her body gives us an indication that her heart was beating.
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  Speaker 1: That means that she was a live while this was
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  Speaker 1: going on. Because you know, look, I've worked a lot
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  Speaker 1: of cases over my career where people sustained stab wounds
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  Speaker 1: for the chest, okay, and they'll have blood contained within
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  Speaker 1: the chest walls, all right. That means they bled out
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: for a little bit and then they died. Just an
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: organ failure. No, no, no no, that's not what happened. She
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  Speaker 1: was stabbed so many times and in all of these
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  Speaker 1: variety of locations over her torso that there was blood
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  Speaker 1: coming out multiple holes in her body till everything was
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: left around her, you know, the seats, the clothing, even
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  Speaker 1: the backs of the seats, the door jam and I suspect,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and I suspect all over the perpetrator as well. He
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  Speaker 1: would have been bathed in her blood, up and down
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: his arms. Certainly the weapon you remember he was found.
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  Speaker 1: He was witnessed later attempting to i think by a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: lady friend of his, trying to clean trying to clean
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  Speaker 1: this instrument. He had it on his arms, He probably
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: had it on his neck. He had blood everywhere, her blood,
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  Speaker 1: Sammy's blood, he had all over him. So that gives
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you an idea. Again, it goes to the horror of
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: this that it's a hopeless situation at this point in
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: time where life is slowly draining out of her body
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and finally, you know she because of lack of strength,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: she just would not have had the ability to fight
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  Speaker 1: back any longer. One of other things that came out
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: in the trial is that Josephson had facial injuries that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: looked as if she was dragged. Yeah, and that gives
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you an indication that perhaps in that he didn't even
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: take the time to essentially cradle her and carry her away,
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  Speaker 1: that just like some dead animal he perpetrated this horrific
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: crime on He just kind of drug her along the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: ground and deposited her out there in the stick. Let's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: backtracked us a little bit Joe Josephson is driven out
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  Speaker 1: to this remote area nearly sixty seventy miles from Columbia
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to a remote area nearby to where Roland's parents lived.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: But the defense pointed out that nothing from the woods,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: either dirt or debris, is on Roland's clothing or shoes.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: How's that possible? How's it possible that he didn't actually
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: leave the scene with nothing on his person that would
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: tie him back. You know, in forensic suite, we actually
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: have a practice of you know, say, for instance, soil science,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: all right, that goes back to trace evidence, where we
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: can identify a certain you know, that depend upon a
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: region that you're in in the country. And this part
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: of South Carolina has actually referred to as the Piedmont region.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: There's specific soil that you find in these locations. It's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: kind of a sandy loamy kind of kind of a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: composition mixed with a little clay, and it's very distinctive,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: particularly when you look at it under a microscope. But
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you know, people will say, well, how how did he
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: not have this dirt on him, or how did he
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: not have vegetation or anything. I'll tell you why, because
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: he cleaned himself up. He cleaned himself up to the
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: point where there was nothing left behind that they could find.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And also I would I would offer up that because
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: he had so much of her blood on him, I
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: think he was probably and this is a horrible turn
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: of events, probably partially shielded by Sammy's blood on his
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: person from taking on anything else, any of the debris
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that might be associated with a specific identifier back to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that area. We're going to talk about the DNA evidence
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: here in just a second, Joe, but I want to
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the video and the digital evidence that came
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: out in this trial. There was video of the car
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: in the area where Jesus and went missing. There were
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: phone pings to the area, camera footage of them seen
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: driving throughout the town. Then you have the dash cam
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: video when Roland was actually pulled over. It was almost
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: too much to try to get away with this. There
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: was so much evidence there. What's amazing about the world
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that we live in now, It's really difficult for anybody
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that perpetrates a chrome to not leave behind some kind
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of electronic signature. And even in this case, we're not
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: necessarily talking about things that are very electronic specific. You know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: where they're pinging phones and this sort of thing. Although
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: that is part of this, probably the most compelling thing,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the most visceral thing that you can see in this case,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and I'll kind of break this down for you, is
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the CCTV footage. And the reason is is that you
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: can see Sammy in the video where she is out
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: on the street and and you can tell, like many
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: young people nowadays, and I'm guilty of it as well,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: where she has her smartphone in her hand and she's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: actually looking at the phone. You know that she's already
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: ordered a car up. She's waiting for the car to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: come up. And there's even one instance in this view
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: of her, you're kind of looking at the right side
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of her body, so you kind of see her in profile.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: She actually steps off the curb into the street because
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: there's a car that comes by and she thinks that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it's her uber and it wasn't, and she doesn't about
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: face and goes back up to the curb. There's there's
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: like a diagonal part spot for a handicapped person the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: vehicle there. She comes back to the curb, but guess what,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: off in the distance almost out of sight at that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: moment time there's the perpetrator's car. And guess what he's doing.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: He's already passed down the street a couple of times.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: He's looking. He's looking for a victim. And the first
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: thing I thought of when I saw this, you know,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: was a person in the water and a shark is circling.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: You don't necessarily know where they are, and you might
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: not even have an indwelling fear that there's a shark there.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: But suddenly, at this moment he appears. He actually pulls
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: up to the light which would have been to Sammy's
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: left at this point, and makes a turn toward her.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And a matter of fact, it's almost like he's so
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: excited when he sees this potential victim that when he turns,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: he turns this car is will to the right. The
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: right rear tire of this vehicle that Sammy was murdered
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: in actually goes up on the curve. He cut the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: corner too quickly and then swung right into right into
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the handicap spot. And without thinking about it, she opens
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: the door and she gets in the back of the car.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And the reason this is so chillingness that is the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: last time, that's the last time that we see Sammy alive.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: He backs out, waits for traffic to pass, and then
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: pulls on out. And you know, you're thinking all along,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you know, you're watching this CCTV play out before you,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and you're actually thinking, you know, my god, I wish
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I could freeze time. I wish that somebody would step
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: up and grab her. But who has any aware of
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: awareness of this. We live in a world of rideshare now,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and because that happened, it leaves us with the sense
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that she's gone forever and she, as it turns out,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: she is. He drove off with her, and he had
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: been looking for someone. He had been trolling this area
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: looking for a potential robbery victim. And what's really also
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: another part to this that's so very startling about this
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: particular case is that all of us that have children,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: when our kids were little and they've kind of gotten
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: out of car seats, we used to put in booster
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: seats in the back of the car. Well, in the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: back of this car was a little booster seat. It
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: was a little booster seat that was used to transport
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: children with it. And this was actually in the back
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: of the car. So here Sammy is she seated in
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the back seat and on the other side of the
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: car from her is a child's booster seat. Now, what
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: could have been going through her mind at that point
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: in time. Well, maybe this is a dad that's just
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: working extra to make a living for his family. Now
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: what it was was a monster that was using this vehicle,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: the same vehicle as used as transport small children, actually
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: used it to take Sammy to her death. It's very chilling. Joe.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Let's move on and talk a little bit about the DNA.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: As we've mentioned, there was blood everywhere, and as you said,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you've theorized that the perpetrator, Nathaniel Rowland, was covered in
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Josephson's blood. So let's talk about the significance of the DNA,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: what was found and what wasn't found. The evidence that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: we saw presented in the trial, the defense and the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: prosecutor really pushed some facts about the DNA, you know,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the DNA. I think that when the defense in this
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: case they come forward with a theory or supposition that
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: they put before the court, that it is a bona
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: fide fact in forensic science that an absence of DNA
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: from the perpetrator is an indication of innocence, and those
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: two things they don't necessarily exist in the same plane.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Just because just because the perpetrators DNA was not found
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: on her, on sammy or underneath her nails, does not
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: mean that he that he's innocent. It just doesn't. Now.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Her DNA, however, was found everywhere because it was deposited
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: visa her blood, which you know we've already talked about
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: that she had. It was a couple of tablespoons left
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: in her body, so this car him her the surfaces,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: they're a wash in her blood and her DNA. So
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: there was a minuscule amount of DNA of his that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: was found, but it was also commingled with other people.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I think that that even even on the multi tool
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: they had trouble finding DNA. But keep in mind when
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: it comes to the instrument itself, he was actually witnessed
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: who have been cleaning this thing, and they couldn't say
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: with a reasonable scientific certainty that his DNA was present.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: They thought that they found some, but it wasn't within
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the parameters. However, for her, the numbers were astronomical. I mean,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I think they were talking into the sextillions. If anybody
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: out there can kind of wrap their brain around that
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: how vast that number is. So you can't just simply
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: say that because she Sammy did not have his DNA
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: deposited on her, that you know, he wasn't the perpetrator.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: And also one other thing that folks need to keep
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: in mind, there's no indication in this case that this
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: was a sexual assault. There's no indication that, you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: this was a provocative event where her clothing was disordered
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: to in the sense that you would see, say, for instance,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a sexual attack victim. There's no indication of that. This
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: was at least prosecutors and the investigators believe this was
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: an actual property crime. It was actually a robbery that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: was taking place. To remember, he was actually found pawning.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Now I think that he had pawned some of her items.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: So the intent here was that he was merely out
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: there to rob her, and at the end of the day,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: he did robbery. Robbed her of her life, and he
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: robbed her family of her life and and any kind
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: of future she might have, all for you know, a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: few bucks. And you know it's it's by no fault
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of her own that his DNA was not there, but
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: there was enough of her DNA spread around that it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: was very, very difficult for the defense to explain that away,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: and so much so that the defense didn't really offer
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: up anything to the contrary. As a matter of fact,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: they didn't call any of any of their own experts.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: They didn't even have any experts. Essentially, they relied upon
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the prosecution to provide all of the experts and then
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: they just tried to undercut them, and they didn't really
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: present a defense in this particular case. And Roland did
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: not take the stand in his own defense either. But
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: we also know you were talking about the possibility of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: items being pawned. We know that the perpetrator tried or
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: someone tried to use Josephson's debit card. I also want
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to point out Nathaniel Roland did not have a mark
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: on him or cut, not a bruise. But we also
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: know he was wearing long sleeves and gloves, So this
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: pretty much means there was a lot less chance of
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: transfer of DNA. Yeah, when an individual is essentially cocooned
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: like this, you're not going to get a lot of
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: transference from the individual. Say, for instance, if you've got
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: if folks at home will just kind of think about
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: with your arms being exposed. Okay, one of the first
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: primal defense moves that we make as human beings as
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to thrust our hands out to capture an attacker's hands
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to try to prevent them essentially from attacking us. Well,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: if if you're if you're talking about like contact DNA
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: or trace DNA that's left behind a partial DNA, it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: not going to be on his skin. Also, she's not
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: going to have access to his arms in order to scrape. Now,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: one of the hurdles that's that's hard to overcome here
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: is is obviously in an absence of say, scrapes down
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: his face and that sort of thing. But you know, look,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: she just didn't react potentially in time. Maybe she was
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: so injured by the initial attack that she didn't have
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the will to fight back at that point in time.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine the terror that was overtaking her at
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: that point in time, and he just continued to stab
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: her over and over and over and over again. So again.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: After a seven day trial, the jury deliberated for less
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: than two hours before returning to guilt di verdict for
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Nathaniel Roland in the kidnapping and murder of Samantha Josephson.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: The judge went straight into sentencing. Nathaniel Roland gets life
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: in prison. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Jackie Howard.