Latest / Pod Therapy / #355: Dealing with Apathy, Should I See a Female Therapist, Therapist Trump Supporter

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#355: Dealing with Apathy, Should I See a Female Therapist, Therapist Trump Supporter · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I've been finding him everywhere I go.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Jim old Man Hunter. This episode has made possible by
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: our therap partner's Dirty be Ticket and Jake Schneider Jos
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: from Fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. This is pod Therapy, Real people,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: anonymously at pod therapy dot net or email us at
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: from the churn. That's Jim. I'm Nick. It's time for
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: some pod therapy.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fabulous Las Vegas and this Fabulous Las
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Vegas podcast. Our associate therapist, Whitney is a wall because
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: she is living her best life. Yes, in Italy, I
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: believe how you mus you must always pronounce.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: It yep, always with the finger, yeah, always always. Yeah,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: you can't. Listeners can't see this. But Jim did that
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: when you said they know exactly what you No. Everybody, yeah, yeah, everybody.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Do We all agree that you must do it with
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: your dominant hand. Does that feel both? If you're serious,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well that's for you can't always do that,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: then you're yelling you need to. I don't think you
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: have to do dominant hand. Look at how Jacob does it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: He does a lot more wrist roll than you and I.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You and I don't do that. No, you do more
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: elbow elevation. You do it up here. You started a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: ninety degree angle and then you lift.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: When Nick is doing it, you can almost imagine him
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: doing a Mussolini's speech while he's most yea.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a fascism for the people.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, we me.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We can do it once we get rid of all.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: You are the party of the people. You are the proletariat.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: If you would like to learn more about Nick's golfing
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: addiction or a new game that we've invented called Hooker Roulette,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: go to patreon dot com slash therapy and you can
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: learn all about it. You can also get access to
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: our extra Monday content and our very first Emma the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Intern episode drops. Yes last weeks did a great job.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So she's long a series Therapy one oh one, and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: she's got all sorts of different things she's gonna cover.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: She's basically creating an installment to the library, to the archives.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Which reminder, if you go to patreon dot com slash therapy,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you join the therapod level or higher, you automatically get
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: access to our entire content library of bonus information. A
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: lot of it is educational, deep dives, therapy skills, walking
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: you through all sorts of stuff. And Emma, our intern
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: is adding to that library with a great project Therapy
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: one oh one. She's breaking down everything you might want
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: to know about getting started in therapy, how to do it,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: how to finance it, all the tricks and tips. And
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: her first episode is about why people get therapy, like
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: breaking down to that basic point, what is the point
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of this, how does this work? What is this and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: why do people do it? And so she gets into
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the science and the research about results, and she really
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: gets down to the fundamental So it's gonna be a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: really great series. We're really excited for that. Patreon dot
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: com slash Therapy. Every Monday we release new content and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: she will be featured on some of those Mondays. So
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I got a great series going.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Absolutely me a lot of fun.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: We've got a great show for you here today. Well
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you know, all right, you know, let me set expectations lower.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: We have a show. Yeah, you know, we're gonna try
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: without Whitney supervision, you never really know what's gonna happen.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: But I need therapy today because I have injured my
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: neck reach so I slept apparently incorrectly last night. It's
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: that and so like, watch, I'm gonna turn my head
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: right now to the right. Okay, look at that. Let
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: at me go, Yeah, look at that. I'm like, he's
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: going over the shoulder on my shoulder. Yeah, let's see
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: the other side. Let me turn to the left. Let's say, oh, wow,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that's it. He's yeah, that's You're barely crossing the navy. Yeah,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: your nose is barely getting past. I could tilt my
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: head this far.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I'm a forty five degree angle with the I hurt
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: my ear on my shoulder.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: But it's been like that all day. You woke up
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: It hurts.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: That hurts so bad. What do you do?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Heat?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I have tried heat.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: I have tried a We have like a neck massager
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: thing that kind of hangs around your neck and you
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: put your arms in it to add some weight. It's
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: not on that you move back and forth with it. Yeah,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: and we've got one of those therapy canes. It's like
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: a massage or cane, so it hooks around and you
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: can you can kind of pressure point. I sat in
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: the hot tub for about forty five minutes.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Geeze.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: And and I've also just taken drugs.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume that was stepping. Nothing has nothing has
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: helped yet.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: You tried just turning your head really fast.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we could actually do. This just doesn't work,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: It doesn't. It just doesn't. It just stops.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: It stops violently, It stops painfully, is what happens.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: It's good for you for trying.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Man, we have all been there. Oh that is the word.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: It's so bad today, it's so weird. And it's like, man, all,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: how can I just lay? How did I hurt myself
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: this badly?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Sleeping?
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It's like what did I do in my sleep? Well?
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I just fucking in the last few weeks about just
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: like handling getting old. Yeah, and like I'm not doing well.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It found you man, Yeah, oh that's rough. Well, sorry
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to hear that. I'm not handling it. You know, I
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: think we can get over there, we do little shiatsu.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: We can get our elbows in your neck a little bit.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, I'm not turning anything down.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Don't say I'm not saying.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: No, I'm in pain.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Make this stop. All right, Well, we've got some letters
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to start with today, and the first one comes for
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: our old friend and longtime supporter, Felicia Butler, who writes
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in about dealing with apathy, and she writes, Hey, guys,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: how do you deal with apathy? I've seen my little brother,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: aged nineteen, just have no drive to get a job
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: or even a license. He's content just staying at home
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: playing video games and never leaving the house. He doesn't
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: have any career interests. I've tried talking to him about
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: potentially going into computer science, as my older brother and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: my husband have done that route after being into video games,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: but no dice. As a teacher, I've seen more and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: more students who don't care to get their license or
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: seem aimless for what they're going to do after high school,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: even as seniors. Any advice on how to find that motivation.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: As someone who has always been driven, it's hard to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: understand what it's like to not have that. Thanks and
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: feel free to read my real name. Pronouns are she
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and her? I have heard of this. This is interesting
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I come out so yeah, I kind of became so
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: part of me is wondering like difference of like apathy
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: versus generation and if there's just some location and location. Yeah,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: because like when I was a foster parent, I kind
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of ran into this issue of like driver's license.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: And not only did the two kids that we had
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: had no interest whatsoever getting ever learning how to drive,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: getting a license, getting a car or anything, but like it,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: all these other kids that I knew through them or
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: through work, they were all the same. Yeah, none of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: them had any motivation to really get a driver's license.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And it was the weirdest thing for me because, like,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: as you know, when we got that.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Age, it was a big deal.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: We couldn't wait. Yeah we got we got a learner's
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: permit at fourteen. Yeah geez, you know we were driving
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to school. If we had a school permit, we could
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: drive to school a Louisiana.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: We didn't have to get the learners permit. Ye turned fifteen,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I got my full driver's license.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That surprised me really.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: On my fifteenth birthday, I walked in, they handed me
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: a driver's license and a.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Fifth of something probably a handle.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Oh oh my god, that was just it was a dakery.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Just had a styrofoam cup.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Happy Birthdays done, Time for your first beer every time.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I still go to Louisiana.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: By the way, side note, I always stop and want
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: to drive through Dakary places. There's a drive through Dacory Place. Uh,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: not a drive through Dacre place. They're a many drive
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: through dacor replaces. The ham this to you through a
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: window and a like a disposable cup with a lid
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: at a straw.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Really, there's not like loss against drinking and driving. There
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: most certainly are.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And uh, don't put the straw in the drink.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Shut the fuck up? Are you serious? I am.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: This is the dumbest thing.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard that. Yeah, that is ridiculous, louis.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And that's why you shouldn't let your kids get driver's license.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so we're not your little brother's better off.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I do see this a lot too, So, like I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: have a high schooler now, and and I bring this
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: up all the time, you do, I do? Yeah, So,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I you know, my high schooler, I'll tell them. I'll
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: be like, hey, man, you know, like we're driving around
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and I'll like notice cars like oh, that'd make a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: really good first car, or what do you think about those?
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And you know he's fine with it. He's like, yeah, no,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I like those or whatever. But like not like we
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: were in high school where it's yeah, you're chomping at
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the bit, you're like going through the fucking penny trader
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: or whatever.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: That I would yeah, I would get anything that had
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: a steering wheel off four wheels.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Talking about it all the time, like because it represented
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: a lot represented freedom, and like, I don't know, man,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Like I know a lot of kids. I have a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: bunch of friends. Obviously, I have high schoolers too, A
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: lot of kids now they have Uber accounts. That's it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: They're just getting ubered around and and there's like and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I get advertisements I.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Have like you can get where you want to go. Yeah,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: that's a means of transportation. Matters a lot less.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: They don't really care and like the personalization, I think
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: it matters a lot less. And I'm sure the economy
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: is a big part of it too, Like I think
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: this generation has grown up having households that have much
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: lower means than any other generation previously. It's not I
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: think that's a fact, like that just it is a reality.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: The purchasing power of the average American family has dipped
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: over the last forty years, like there's no question, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: so like, I think that they've also reset their expectations,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: like what's interesting. Our home lives have become much more interesting,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: their social lives a lot of times are electronic. So
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: like all those things I think are part of this,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: but this deeper question of like what do you do
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: when you have a person that doesn't have that motivation?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I have two tricks that I try to use because
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: this comes up a lot. I get a lot of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: men and women, but I'll get young people people like
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and sometimes not necessarily young, but obviously you're expecting that
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: late teens, mid twenties, Like you'll meet people that go,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't know where my life's going. And a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: lot of times they are still like living with family,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it comes up as like, hey, they're kind
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: of pushing me out of the nest. I don't know
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: what to do. I'm not I don't care about any
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: of this. I don't want to make anybody mad at me,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: but I'm not self propelled. Right. The two areas that
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I always start with one I start with the values inventory,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: which we've talked about on the show before, because I
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: want to figure out what, if anything even matters to you, right,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: because if you just ask them, they're always gonna be like,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know nothing, Like oh do you want like
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: a cool car? Do you want a nice house? I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: don't know care? Uh do you what kind of jobs
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: you're interested? I don't don't really care, and so like
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: do you want money? Like what what are your do
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you want to date somebody?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So I like to start with the values inventory to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: get oriented to things that, if they had to pick,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: matter to them, and then explore that with them, like
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: what are the things that matter to some of them?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I'm kind of into politics, or
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: maybe I am into gaming but like in a competitive way,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: or maybe I care about the environment, Like you drill
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: into the things that somewhat resonate with them on a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: personal level. Then part two, I go straight to that
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: ohnette inventory, the Career Profiler. It's offered through the government,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: So if you type in O N E T Career profiler,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you'll get taken to a free program that is a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: personality and career test. And so it's it's really really good.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I've talking go on line and take an aptitude test. Yes,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: so like it, but it applies so like when you
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: take it. It's not.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Because I'm wondering, like.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: It's not aptitude, it's it's personality based. So it's like
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: it's well, but what job, yeah, career fit? Yeah, soitude, right,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Isn't that what aptitude is? I don't know.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I feel if the word aptitude hits me is like
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: potential or like capacity, but what I know? But so
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it basically you take this test and it says, okay,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: here your personality sections and it says, okay, people with
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: these personality like dominant traits, they tend to get into
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: these fields. And then it takes the fields and it
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: breaks them into five different zones according to how much
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: preparation goes into it. So Zone one you could just
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: right out of high school. Zone five is going to be,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you know, some amount of education plus training, maybe like
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: an apprenticeship things like that. And so then it provides
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: links and like you can click them and you can
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: learn all about the career and how much money they make.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So like, I make the person do that because no
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: matter what they are going to generate results, they're they're
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: going to take a personality test which they can take
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: in an unmotivated way it doesn't matter, and then it
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: just forks over all these results and then I go
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: over those with them and I try to like tease
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: out in a conversational way, what do you think of
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: this one? How does that sound? What is it? Do
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: you know anything about this? And then you know thing
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: by if they ping at all, I'll get them to
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: do some research on the job and at least come
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: back to me and teach me, like, so, what did
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you learn about this career? How do you get into it?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: How much money do they make? What is a day
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: in their life? And it's you know, a little bit
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of like psycho education at that point. But those are
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: two of the steps that I'll use to at least
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: get a conversation going. And then we'll look at the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: careers that popped up and we'll compare that to their
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: values and say, you know, if you were to pursue
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: this kind of career, here's how that might align with
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: your values. And so at least now there's some very
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: tiny toe hold of personal buy in from their perspective
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: that this is all based on who they are, not
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: social expectations, not me just trying on hats and seeing
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: what they like or giving them options, so they can
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: just yeay or nay them, but it starts there. And
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: so those are two tricks that I use whenever I'm
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: dealing with young people that kind of feel like they
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: have a lack of motivation.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's good. You know, I think for me,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, does the idea of like that, that the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: next generation seems less motivated? Does that worry you at all?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Because for me, it doesn't. No, it doesn't worry me
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: at all. Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: For one thing, I think every single generation ever has
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: thought that about the proceeding generator.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: All slackers.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, every generation in history. The only thing that they
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: agree on is that the next generation is shitty. Socrates
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: was like, well, these kids playing fucking hoop and stick.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Look at that. Aristotle. Motherfucker over there knows everything to
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: sit around draw.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what aptitude means because I kind
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: of get like the sense of, like I guess, to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: quote the great philosopher Jeff Goldbloom, life finds a way.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Life finds a way.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just you know, it's like, uh, it looks different
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to us from our generation. What they're doing looks completely different.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: But if we don't interfere and we just let it go.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: It will work itself out, and they they kind of
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: like they they will learn how to autocorrect and to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: kind of fix their situation and live within the environment
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: that they live in, right, you know, like they can
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: kind of adapt that and for whatever, you know, I
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: don't know what the reason is why they're not interested
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: in getting a license or why it feels like they
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: just don't know what they're going to do after high school.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: There could be a multitude of reasons why, But I
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: just I have I don't want to say faith, but
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I have like a sense that they'll work it out,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: like they will kind of figure that out.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Do you think the look different but they'll figure it out.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I think yeah, I'll bet the average is true. I
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: think you're right, Like in a sociological context, it'll all
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: be fine. In a human to human context, a family
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: looking at a younger member of the family or a
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: younger sibling and feeling like there's a failure to launch
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and being worried for them to ruffle the feathers of
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that little bird to see if it'll get out of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the nest. Keep this analogy going, jump, yeah, keep it going. Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Bird leaving the nest go Yeah. Yeah, do you feel
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: like you would encourage the family of birds, of birds,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: the nest owners, so to speak, to make the nest smaller?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Do you think that they need to create some natural
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: consequences or allow this person to experience some of the
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: different Because if this person says, hey, I want to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: go to this store, I don't have a license, Mom,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: while you drive me, would you tell the family let's
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: start talking about cutting that back right, because when he
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was fifteen, your parental responsibilities were quite different. He's a
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: young adult now, and if he's choosing not to stand up,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you don't have to carry him around.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, I definitely, I'm all in favor of natural consequences,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you know. And yeah, just kind of being able to
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: pull back a little bit and like, okay, well here's
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: the problem, work it out right, you know. I guess
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that's kind of what I was getting at, saying like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: they will kind of find a way, which is like
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: when they're left with problems, they're gonna have to step
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: up and they're gonna have to solve those problems, you know.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And so but but here's the other thing, though, too,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is we can't then say well, they're not solving it
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the way I would have It's not it's not our job.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: They solve it the way that they're solving it, you know,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Like I I see somebody posted this thing once. It
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was this video of somebody like doing like a Ted
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: talk or whatever talking about the next generation. And I don't,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: like I feel protective of the next generation, Like I
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: want to defend the next generation because they're getting shipped
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: on way more than they should. And like this, this
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: woman was on stage and she was saying something to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the effective, you know, like, well, these kids they don't
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: know how to put it. They don't know how to
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: write a letter, you know, they don't know how to
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: put anything in the postage on in the stupid Yeah,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: they don't know how to do this whatever. Well what
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I'm it's like, yeah, and you don't know how to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: drive a horse and buggy?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Every generation has some sort of technology that goes obsolete
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: in their time that doesn't get.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: You know what I fear all the time. Cursive? Oh yeah, yeah,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: everybody's furious, Like do you kids even take cursive anymore?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: My kids are like no, no, And like, you know,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: it's really funny because the elder generations, like the grandparent generations, like,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: oh my god, like they you kids can't. Your handwriting
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: is terrible. Yeah, And I'm like, I'll look at that
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: elder person, like what's your typing speed? What's your rights
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: per minute? Because my kids type at one hundred and twenty.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Hey transfer this word doc into a PDM.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like that that's that happens. You're like, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: that's that's.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: That'sn't like, how do I write cursive? There's a font
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: for that. Yeah, yeah, I don't need to do it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: It's called calligraphy, bitch.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And if we held on to that and we had
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: to teach the next generation useless information that they will
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: never use, then we're wasting time when they could be
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: for their time.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Like this current generation is terrible at identifying edible plants
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: in the wild.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Not the scouts they.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Trained.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But no, I like this, thanks. I don't trust them
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: more than either. This weekend we were neckerchiefs. We we
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: welcomed a new nephew into our growing family. In this
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: last year. Uh, my sibling and my my wife's siblings
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: have produced now four little boys in our family tree.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So I have four nephews that just have been popping up.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: We're done for now. It seems like nobody's pregnant anymore.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: So yeah, God willing.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Set for a while.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: But uh, but we we babysat our eldest nephew because
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: he had a little brother being born, and so we
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: were watching him. He's a toddler and uh, and so
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: we're having a really great time with him and stuff.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: But he, you know, had a bunch of fun with
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: toys and stuff in the in in the loft and
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: play with all the old toys, and so he makes
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a mess and then he's gone. And the next day
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I get my kids and I'm like, hey, I want
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you kids to clean up the loft. You know, I
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: realize you didn't do this, but whatever. They don't give
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: a shit. It's your stuff. I say it as clean
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it up, and so they're doing it or whatever, and
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I tell them, may we're gonna split this up. You know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you do this half, you do that half. Well. My daughter,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you know, is just she has a lot of wonderful qualities.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: One of them is she is a leader. Okay, which
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: some people would misinterpret as being bossy, but not Jim,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: because I'm a feminist so I'm for it, right, but
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: we have to rain that shit in sometimes too. And
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: so she's like hollering at my high school son and
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: she's like, you're doing it wrong. You got you gotta
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: clean up this way, and I pulled her aside. I'm like, hey,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that's not how this works. Let me give you a
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: little bit of life advice. When you ask somebody to
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: do something, you don't get to tell them how to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: do it as well, Like, you really have to let
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: them do it their way, in their order, and it
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: might not be the way you do it, and you
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: might have a really good rhyme and reason to how
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you do what you do and why it makes sense,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: But you can't spend your whole life like lecturing other people.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I like that you brought that up, because it sounds
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: like you're saying with this nineteen year old the dignity
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of discomfort move is probably smart, ruffling the feathers, shrinking
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the nest, allowing the person to lose some of these
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: luxuries that allow them to lay in the hammock, right.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Right, don't spit baby baby worms into his mouth anymore?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Or do that? You know what? Like this, you're
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: not eating for whichever you eat what I vomb it out. Yeah,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: But then you're saying you can create the discomfort, but
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: you don't get to decide how he solves that. So
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: he may say, all right, I'm gonna go get a
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: part time job, but not a license. I'm gonna take
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the bus. Yeah, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna get
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: an uber account. And that's what I choose to do
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: because I don't believe in owning a car. And you
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: might think, God, it would be so much better for
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: our whole family if you just get a fucking car,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: But you don't get to decide that, that's what you're saying.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Or if they get a job, you don't get to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: decide which one. It's enough that they're doing it their.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Way, yeah, and then you know they kind of have
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to learn from that, like, well, this is the job
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I picked. I don't really like this job. Well, okay,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: well now we have.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: But you could create requirements like hey, we're going to
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: charge you one hundred dollars a month to live here.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: It's a very reasonable amount. It's not hard to earn
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: that much, but you need to figure that out.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: But then you also have to be okay, with the consequence,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: which is as nice, well no, but like okay, one
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars a month. Yeah cool, and then just like okay,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: well it's always going to be this way because I'll
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: pay one hundred dollars a month for the next several years. Right,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, well I know it's this way now, yeah, right,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: and goes up.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: It's however old you are, times ten dollars. I think
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: that's the deal. It's one hundred and ninety. But no,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: it's tough, and I think it is really tough, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that the challenges families have. And I've seen
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: this a lot. A couple of years ago, I had
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a young man come in high schooler back when I
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: still did pediatric cases, and he was very much in
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: this boat. He was elder high school, would not get
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a driver's license. Mom was like trying to get him motivated,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: not interested in talking about his future, not interested in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: thinking about school grades, not strong. She wanted him to
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: get a job. She wanted to like grow up and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: like show some independence. And it was really tough because
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: there was no amount of punishing she could do. Like
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you know, it's you can take things away back, Okay, like, well,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I'm taking away your xbox, all right, you know, I'm
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: shutting down the internet. All right, Well you're not allowed
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: to read a book. He used to have to sit
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: here and stare at the window. And you're like, I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: gonna win this game.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I don't care if the punishment you
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: just need to lay in bed. It's like, ok oh,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: as a teenager, I just have to lay in bed
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: all day. Yeah I can do that.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: And it was tough because she'd get really first, like
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? Hit him, like you know,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I can't do that, and she's like and the punishment
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: can't be go do chores because he just declines, right,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and like, I can you do understand why people beat
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: their children?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I knew I was coming. You go like that Louisiana window.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I get it, I get it. It'll cut you a
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: switch bar.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I don't have kids. I don't think you should beat kids.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: I definitely had to go get my own switches when
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I was a kid, Like I did.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: That and ship he got you done.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I got's license at fifty and I'm like, I don't
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: degree on my way home. I don't particularly think that's
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: the best way to parent whatever, I don't. I mean,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: if you if that's what your bag is, that's what
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: your bag is. But I'm like natural, get it though,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: seem to be because a little bit that I'm around kids,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I'm like, y'all are frustrating small people.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna hard pivot away from this. So you
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: know that the natural I would beat the ship out
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: of Jim's art. You want some life coaching, you just
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: bring your kid to Uncle Jacob. Set him out just
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: but you have to meet him in Mexico. We gotta
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: get this off the grid.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: He guarantees that he will not use a closed fist
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: unless they really need.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: It, unless he's just upset that day, having a bad day.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: How much can he rotate his neck that day? Really?
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: I can't do it today, I mean today, I'd be
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: I'd be terrible. If not kidding, I'd tell you this
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: arm and do it.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: A whole lot of good.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Either, like this arm. I gotta get shoulder level. You
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: get on Uncle Jacob's left hand side, you're pretty much
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: safe free. He can't. He's not. He's turning at the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: waist to find you.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: That's not how Jacob would do it. Jacob would just
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: hold his arm up. You run into this set the metal.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Jacket, choke yourself over by anyway, writer, I think that's hard.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: This sounds terrible. Oh this show.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Oh we've just Whitney's gone, Like I just we've lost
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: our moral compass. It felt like it used to. We
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: just rain ourselves in. You know, there was a lady
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: in the road. Those days are God, they'll come back.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I like all these suggestions, but I appreciate
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that they're not bulletproof here because you can have that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: game of chicken where the person just says, look, you're
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: threatening to like throw me out or something. Do it?
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: You know, like I can't lie. And it's tough because
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: parents don't they look at a kid like this and
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: they're not like, you're not a bad kid, right, Like,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: you're not stealing things, you're not you're not disrespectful. You
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: just lack motivation and it's genuine, and you don't feel
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: proud of that. You know, you seem to be ashamed
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: of it. And you and when we talk to you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: about it, you listen to us and you hear us,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and we can tell that you seem just apathetic. And
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: it's tough as a parent when you say because you're like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want to punish this kid. I don't want
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: to make this life harder. I want to lift my
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: kid up, you know, I want I want to put
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: rocket fuel in this car and really see him go.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: But he's not finding his way. And that's therapeutically why
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I offer those other ideas, like and I've had to work.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that really helps is a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: technique that you and I both use an addiction treatment,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: motivational interviewing, which is all about because you can use
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the stages of change to apply to the trans theoretical
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: model of change, you can apply that to this and say,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: where is this person at? Are they in pre contemplation
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: or they don't even see what the problem is? Do
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: they agree there is a problem but they don't know
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: how to fix this. Do they want to fix this
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and they're thinking about ways but they're not really doing
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: anything yet. Are they trying to do things but it's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: not taking yet? And so motivational interviewing is about trying
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: to inquisitively, socratically help that person grow that little you know,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: ember of flame or you know, just hot mbers into
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a flame into a fire. And that is a technique
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: that we would probably apply here, which is why I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: try to use task based interventions. Do this values analysis.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: It isn't a lot of insight. You don't have to
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: think very hard, kid, You just to circle words on
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: a page and then explain them. Take this test, look
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: at these results with me. Click these links. Identify information
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: about this career. Come back to me and tell me
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: five facts. Fill in this page that asks questions about
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that career. Get the data. So I like task based
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: interventions that get them active that they can participate with,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and then I like to weave that into motivational interviewing slowly, kindly,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: never in this like shame based way of like don't
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you want to be cool?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Like no bullshit like that, Like don't you want to
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: have a girlfriend? Bro? Like no, fuck that, Like that's
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: imposing values. That's trying to say, you know, you should
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: live up to the nineteen fifty standard of whatever masculinity
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: is or people are. Don't think you're a loser dude
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: or whatever.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: If you don't know how to operate this rotary phone,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: how are you gonna make it?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: How are you gonna call Gramma, you know, like come on,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: so like I like that. But it is a very
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: slow process, and historically I'll see people start to catch
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: some fire. But it's all those pieces combined. It's the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: shrinking nest reality of being allowed to touch them a
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: little bit, the dignity of discomfort, creating small, little obtainable goals,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: building their confidence with some small tasks, like I've seen
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: families require of their adult child, like a nineteen year old. Okay, listen, man,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: you might not be getting a job, but we require
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that you participate in twenty hours of community service a month,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and just we are a family who does things, and
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: we want you to be a man who does things.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And we believe that you are a young, strapping boy
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and there's people in this community that needs your help.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And I've seen that take off where they're just showing
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: up at Goodwill and they're like volunteering. They're going to
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: like an animal shelter and they're volunteering. But then all
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's some motivation because they get there
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and it's a different crowd. There's no family, there's peers,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and then they're coming over to you like, hey, can
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: you help us out? There's this bad thing that just happened.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: If we don't help, you know, if we don't clean
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: off this dog, nobody's gonna adopt this dog, and like,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and then it touches them. They're like, yeah, no, I'm
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: needed here, And then they start getting this sense of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like per purpose. Yes, because contextually you get the purpose
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: from the work. So if you can't get somebody to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: get a job, I love at least requiring them to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: perform community service or get involved somewhere. That is a
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: great way to start stretching those muscles, you know. Like
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I remember there was a church that did something like
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: that with college age, you know, people that if they
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: didn't have a job, they could volunteer with the church,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and the church would use them to like help move
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: old women's houses. You know, Like you'd have a widow
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and like she needs a downgraater house and she'd come
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: to the church for help, and the church would be great,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: We're sending you five strapping young men in a freaking truck.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: You just sit over here, ma'am, and there's gonna take
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: care of everything, and we're not charging anything, Like they
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: just need to do this. So I love stuff like that,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and that could be a small way that the but
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the therapist can't require that, like that has to be
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the family. And that's kind of that shaking the tree
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit to push them out of the nest.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to just throw them out of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the fucking tree. I don't like that either, So you
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: gotta find a middle ground here.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I think we made our point. Yeah, send him
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to Uncle Jacob. He'll he'll, he'll set them straight, and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: that's usually the right answer. Also, pot therapy does not
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: condone children being sent to Jacob for any reason whatsoever.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Old mop Pocket, should I see a female therapist? Oh shit,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we we're doing those on a Whitney free one. Yeah,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: this question's literally written toward Whitney.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: We don't have a whole lot of questions. We gotta
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: go with what we got. No, we really don't do
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: that one today. This episode is brought to you by
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Robert Brownie, Junior Mints, Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin, lived Hey, yo, Andrew Langmead. Would
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: you like to spass the show, become a therap producer
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Patreon dot com slash therapy. All right, Uh, dreams that
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: make you go, hmmm, it's only got three of these,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: so we're gonna do one per break, all right. A
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: common dream where your teeth crumble or fall out is
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: often interpreted as anxiety about what a financial stability, b
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: personal health see appearance or communication, or d fear of aging.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, I think I know this one. I think
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I do too, because my sister and I and now
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: we're gonna now it's gonna be a fun game to
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: see if Nick and I have the same answer. My
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: sister and I have always had the same reoccurring dream,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: your teeth falling out? Yes, which is which is that? Like, well,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: we'll feel one tooth. It has a little wiggle and
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you just wiggle it and just falls out, and then
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: every tooth you touch after that just falls. You and
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: your sister both have We both have the same.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: You guys, like see a horror movie or something, or like,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: do you have like an old family member with dentures
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: that messed with you?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: No?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: No, I saw my grandpa pull out as teeth and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: it fucked me up real good.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I mean our grandpa, I guess, did pull out all
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: of our teeth.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Why do they don't do it anymore because I think
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: they get them like sewn in now or whatever, like
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: drilled in. But the old denture Grandpa's man. Universally, they
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: made that a prop comedy show and it was always horrifying.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Wish they would not have done that.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: No, oh, you mean grandparents taking their teeth out. Yes, no,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I'm talking like my grandpa pulled my teeth out. Oh
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: you're loose teeth?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh it was.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: He lived for it. It was his favorite thing.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I'm the teeth puller in our family.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do it. Yeah.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Which is really funny is my wife freaks out like
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: if a kid has a loose too, sh like, get
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the fuck away from me. I'll never touch it, like
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: look at it. Wip mom. She's like, stop, it's freaking
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: me out. I'll just grab a tissue and just yank.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: All right. So I'm going to vote on I think
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: it's the aging and communication.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Is that? See?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Aging and communication?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, no appearance in communication.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I'll take that one.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: That's what I think it is. Oh see, I think
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: it's as you think it's financial stability.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I think it's financial. That's an interesting one. It's probably
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: gonna be e you're gay. It's always freud for you
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: want to have sex with your mom and you're gay something.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: See appearance and community rules.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: One point to the good guys, well done dream analysis.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: It's just because it's not about a real therapy based science, right, Yeah,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: it was that.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I just get it. No, you're actually not wrong. This
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: dream interpretation is just a load of bullshit. I don't
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: agree with any of it. Next question, No, not from
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the script. Next trivia question.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: No, we're doing one per break. I already said this.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Dan, this union fucking rules. We're not reading questions that
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: involve the female therapist. We're doing one per break. Whatever
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: should I see a female therapist? Nope? Moving on. Hi, guys,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a CIS male and I don't like how my
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: brain tends to over sexualize women. I want to get
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: to a point where I stop checking out every attractive
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: woman I see. I'm married, and I think it's unfair
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: to my wife for me to be like this. Also,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I respect women, and I feel like my behaviors in
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: this area are similar to a lot of men that
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: don't respect women. I want that to change. I'm seeing
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: a therapist for other issues, but my therapist is a woman,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and I've been shy to ask her about this problem
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: because I don't want her to feel uncomfortable. I don't
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: really want to switch therapists. Most of the male therapists
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: in my area that specialize in this issue are church pastors,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm an atheist after a childhood of religious trauma,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I'd like to take a secular approach to getting better.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: So my question is is it appropriate to address these
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: issues with a female therapist basically admitting, Hey, I've checked
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: you out at one point or another because you're a woman.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had to deal with something like this?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Thinks and sorry Whitney signed anonymous pronouns are he and him?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Good news about your apology to Whitney. She accepts your apology.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I think we can accept on her behalf, I think
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: we can accept. Yeah, she's she's fine with it. Yeah,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: she didn't mind at all. Letters not offensive, She doesn't care.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys. I think, yeah, talk
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: to your therapist, admit it.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I wouldn't want you to to say, so,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: let's talk about how attractive I find you.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Yet I would talk about it in the same way that
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: you talk about anything else.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a struggle. I notice I have a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: wandering eye. I noticed that I like have a knee
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: jerk instinct reaction where I notice women a lot, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I feel self conscious about that, and I wonder and
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I worry. I worry that makes me a bad guy.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I worry that that makes me sexist and writer. This
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: is an area that I think the therapist. First off, your
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: therapist is a big girl. She's gonna be just fine.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be the most difficult things she's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: had to feel with.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Hell no, hell no. I was just talking to my
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: students about this the other day because one of them
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: had a situation where they had done an intake and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: they we were rounding on the intake and they were like,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little bit concerned because you know,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: this this intake he was talking about how he's kind
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of a womanizer and stuff, and you know, so I
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: really think we need to partner him with a male therapist.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And we have like one male therapist in the whole clinic.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, we don't that's that's not
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I mean there are times and places where I'm fine
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: with it. If the patient asks for a male therapist,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: for example, we're doing that, you know, but like, no,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and she was like, well, what if what if this
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: guy develops a crush and his female therapist and what
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: are we doing? And I was like, let me tell
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you something. We need to go ahead and get this
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: out of the way right now. This is going to happen. Hey, guys,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: hear that. I think it's coming. I think it's heading
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: our way. I think it's the truck. Eh. So yeah,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, we you know, this is something you're
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: all gonna have to get used to in your career.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: You're going to have male patients that develop feelings for
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: you like that. It's just going to happen. So I
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: want you to deal with this now when we're here
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: to mentor you. But no, you're absolutely right. This is
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: not gonna be the weirdest thing your therapist has heard.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And honestly, writer, I like the opportunity to therapeutically crack
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: this open because I think there's a lot of interesting
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: questions therapist is going to have. I think one they
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: want to analyze what kind of attraction is this? You know,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: do you find that you're just your head turns. Is
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: it one of those things where you just instinctively notice people?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: And does that make you feel bad? You mentioned you
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: have a history of religious trauma. Does that make you
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: feel unclean? Does that make you feel shame? Does that
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: make you think you're a bad guy merely because you
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: notice how attractive women are and your your eyes flicker
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and you follow them. So what that would reveal, right there, writer,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: is that there could be some kind of like wrong
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: sizing of this and cognitive distorting of it, where you're
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: internalizing this perhaps more than is really relevant here. A
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: therapist wants to get in there with you and help
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: you take a look at that. It could be something
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: further along where it's like, no, it's pretty obsessive, and
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: like then I fantasize about this person all day. It's intrusive,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: it's distracting. That's very therapeutically interesting, right, because if you're
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: having a follow people at home, right, that's that's the
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: fourth option.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hang out outside their house.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Definitely more and more how they ever go in, So yeah,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I definitely think this is all fair game for therapy.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think your therapist is going to be afraid
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: of this or uncomfortable with this, as long as you're
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: proper about it. I don't want you to come at
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: this person and say so I think about women and
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: how attractive they are, like you, for example, love your
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: hair today, Like, don't do that bullshit?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, don't.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Don't come at at it as a joke, right, don't
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: be funny about it. Yeah, come at it from the
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: same place you come at everything else when you're talking
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: to your therapist, right, say hey, here is the issue,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: and here is why it is causing me concern. Right,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: that's it. I like that you present it the same
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: way you present everything else. When you have the dream
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: about your teeth falling out and you tell the therapist
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: You tell the therapist about this the same way makes
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: me feel.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: And you don't even have to mention anything about your
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: particular therapist. Yeah right, I mean you can just bring
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: it up as I have a tendency to sexualized women. Yeah,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And you don't even have to bring it. It doesn't
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: have to be about the therapist. Now if she connects
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: those dots just to get.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Out the look it's an unspoken reality and and like, look,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: let's let's put shoe on the other foot, okay, as
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: male therapists our equivalent of this happening, because I don't
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: think that women just constantly say I'm so attractive to
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: men all the time, I can't stop looking at him,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you know, and just like leave it hanging that we're
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: a dude. That that is that happens to me all
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the time, therapist all the time. Weird, that's so weird.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I just I'm starting to worry the mustache doesn't play.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: You're starting to you.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Guys, this is all the time for you, all the time, constantly.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: It's so weird.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Like here's the thing, Like I have I stopped.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Four times on my scooter coming down tonight for just
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: for women to tell me that women just peel out
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and pull in front of you in the lane, right
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: and then you said you stop, and they get out
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and excuse me, you're overwhelmingly attractive and they and that's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: what the helmet on, that's what the helmet ones must
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: held me back. I can be honest, I think it's
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: time go ahead.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And I mean I've been in this situation before where
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: like I I have worked with women who have pretty
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: much said like, yes, I know I'm overly sexual, right, yeah,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: you know all all these behaviors as a result of
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah whatever. And I've never in
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: my situation. I've always just and I don't know if
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: this is intentional or if I do it for the
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: sake of being the therapist. I always just assume that
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: speaks to every other man excepting me.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. Another example of that is women saying I keep
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I have a history of getting involved in these relationships
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: and falling in love too quick, and you hear them
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: start talking about their relationship aspre like well I fell
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: for this guy, why he was nice to me, he
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: listened to me, and so like, there's this strong implication
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: by the context of how they describe how quickly they
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: fall in love or feelings that they develop for people,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: that they might develop feelings for a guy in your position. Right,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: so we know how to connect those dots. Writer, it
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't need to be spoken because it's irrelevant the greater picture,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, sure, okay, great, measuring your attractiveness to your
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: therapist is irrelevant to treating your problem. The problem is
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I have this indiscriminating interest and desire in people. And
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I regret that I have that because I don't find
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: it useful to my life. I associate it with those
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: who I don't have a lot of respect for, and
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I feel it's dishonorable to my partner. Help me work
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: through that. And there's ten different approaches to that problem.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I think the therapist is curious of. Like I said, well,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: let's analyze this. Are you being too hard on yourself
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: and where did you learn those lessons? Is there a
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: cognitive distortion or on the other end of the spectrum,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: let's look at this. Is this something that's become compulsive?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Is it something akin to an addiction? And do we
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: need to like crack that open a little bit and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: start talking about, like, you know, behavioral intervention and trying
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: to wean you away from a habit. You know, but
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: this is something that you should absolutely talk.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: About, yeah, because I mean part of this there's there's
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: a biological component in here that we shouldn't pathologize, no,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: which is like if you're just walking someplace and you
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: see a woman go by and she's attractive and you
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: kind of glance over like there's nothing wrong there right,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Like that's just your biological part of your brain. That's
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: just like, oh possible, mate, sure, yeah, and that's it.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Now if you feed into it and it becomes problematic,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: then now that's a different problem.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: You walk over and give her an at a girl. Yeah,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: one of those on the butt look good. Did they
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: get the hell out of those heels?
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Those ug boots are great? So are those whole thing?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Are we doing ug boots still? Those don't I don't
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: know what's elevant? Yeah, Fanny Pat, I mean they still exists.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I look down because I was like, you just probably
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: wearing them.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: I would, but I don't know if I'm allowed to.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: I have two pairs of ug boots I like. My
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: wife has bought them for me. They're great, Okay, they're wonderful,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: like all winter long. I wear them all winter long.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: They also don't look like ugg boots. They are of
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: a style that they don't look like that traditional style
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: of ug boot.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit of a little different there. Yeah,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: is it a thug boot or they are they fraudulently?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, they're a legitimate.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're legitimate.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Almost about a roll like from a pawn shop the
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: other day. Okay, it's too expensive, Okay, it's good. Story,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: still way over fifty bucks. I did not want Jim.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I thought about doing something this week. Jim almost did
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: a thing, but not writer, not a whole lot of thought. Writer.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't switch therapists. I don't think. I don't know.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't in this Two reasons why. Number one, it's
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: hard to find a therapist. If you have one that
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: you like, stick with them, don't throw that away. Number Two,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: this could be a good thing. And I'll kind of
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: get you asked for examples, Sorry, gave you one example
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: that I have had to deal with. But we've mentioned
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: before in the show that one of the first jobs
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: that I took when I moved to Vegas was working
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: at a women's residential rehab facility. I was one of
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: two men that worked on that entire campus. Yeah, and
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't got a little attention. No, but I didn't
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: realize it.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: It's because the other six guys I was there could
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: only be one.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: The other guy was hired six months before me, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: he was the first male to ever work in that building.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I was the second. Okay, and it was a good thing,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: and before the philosophy, the belief was was like, well,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: it's a women's facility, we're gonna have all women therapists.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: But that's not necessarily a good thing. Like it, it
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: is important because a lot of these women didn't have
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: good relationships with male figures, so they having a male
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: therapist meant that they had to actually learn what is
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: a good relationship like with a male figure. They had
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: to figure that out, and so we brought a different
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: perspective and a different insight into that environment. Yes, so
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I think it could be a good thing.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought that up. I think that's huge,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: and I think especially as male therapists, that is one
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of the things that when I first got started in
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the career I was always really surprised about in private
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: practice because you know, when you're coming up and you know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: you look at your your cohort that you're in grad
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: school with, I mean, it's eighty ninety percent female. Yeah,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, the way that you're talking to
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: your peers and even your professors is sort of like,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and we're really glad to have Jim here, because you know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: men need therapy too, and that's the way it's always positioned, right,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: is like, yeah, no, I'll take all the husbands, don't
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: you know, send them to me. And and that's how
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: even my students think think right, It's like every time
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: there's a male client, they're like, Okay, we'll send it
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: to the dude, and I'm like, no, that's not how
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: this works. But like, that was one of the things
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: that I was really surprised by when I got into
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: private practice early in my career is how often female
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: clients would come in and they'd be wanting to talk
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: about things that did feel really intimate or things that
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I would feel like, I'm surprised you picked me. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I remember early in my career even asking at some
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: point like, hey, have you considered maybe a female therapist
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: would be better for this? And I remember the one
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: or two times that I had said that during my
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: like this is like grad school, internships, is very very
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: young in this and they had said things like, well,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: actually I chose a male on purpose because I've never
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: had a healthy man in my life. And I'll never forget.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: There was one woman I worked with and this was
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: later on in my career, and I'd worked with her
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: for a really long time, and she just had all
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: these terrible misadventures with men and just always being objectified
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, kind of just worked in night life
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: and just always that was that was her reality, and
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: it just really affected her. And I'd worked with her
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: for at this point, probably like two years, and just
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: had seen her through a lot of have relationships, a
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: lot of realities, and one day she was going through
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: a new crisis with men, and she just in a
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: moment of I think just honesty and just exhaustion, she
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: was just ranting and we're talking and she said something
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: like I don't remember, but it was a paragraph of
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: information where she just was ranting, and she was saying,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: it's like, ever, I, for once in my life, I
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: want to meet a man who does not want to
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: have sex with me. The only man in my life
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: who's ever not tried to have sex with me is
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: the man who is legally forbidden from having sex with me.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: My therapist and I was like, wow, like the way, but.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Then and so then your response was you haven't picked
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: up on any of my seconds, so I need you
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: to not check your phone.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: So it's off the table. As I put the liquor
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: bottle back on the bookshelf, like no, no, no, I agree,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I snuff out the candles. Let me turn this music
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: off that I tried to over here.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying this.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I had ther truck is coming. So, like I remember
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: just appreciating the way she had said that, right, because
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: like it had never come up. We had never addressed that.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I don't show any of that interest in her, just
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: but she just had thrown this out there. But you know,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: and it just it really hit me, like God, She's right.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Her whole life, every man she's ever met has tried
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to take advantage of her or has been nice to
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: her for one reason, has been playing a game. And
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: it was so it was strange to her that I
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: was this only guy and she and you know, we
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: went deeper after that and talked more about this over time,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: and she had shared with me like, yeah, no, for
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: like the first six months of doing weekly therapy with you,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: in the back of my head every session, I would think,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: here it comes, this is gonna be the day that
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: he eventually he hints or drops, you know, some inappropriate
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: comment and just slowly tries to test the water. And
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: then it's been two years and like, you've never done that,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, you know, did you pick
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: up on the fact that she was a little offended? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: just you know, what's your problem anyway? Like you know,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I come here with my hair done, like what the fuck?
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: But anyway it goes. I think that that silhouette's your point.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: That shoe. On the other foot, it can be really
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: healthy when you notice one of your challenges is with
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the opposite gender or the opposite sexuality, and sometimes finding
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: that person that in some ways embodies some of your
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: challenges can actually be a really great growth thing.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I like that. Yeah, I think, uh, I think you're
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: you're doing what you need to do. Don't be afraid
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: to bring it up, and definitely keep your therapist.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I think we did great without Whitney. I think I
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: was wrong. You know what, He's right. She would have
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: brought us down. Should have been like sleep weather. That's
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: usually what's all about, throwing it around. We're gonna take
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we're talking about
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: finding out my therapist is a Trump supporter. You're listening
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: to pod therapy full disclosure.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: Usually during these great Whitney focks, the patience so that's
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: good that she's not here tonight.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, very good.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: So his episode is brought to you by Robert Brady, Jurman's,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: lid Heyo, and Andrew Langmead. If you would like to
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: sponsor the show, become a thera producer Patreon dot com
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: slash therapy.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: People wonder why we're not on Twitch.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: That's why because it's explicit, because Whitney, Yeah, that didn't
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: blur that out live.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Dreaming of flying without any assistance might symbolize a desire
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: for what in your waking life.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, I forgot this was the trivia question and not
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: just a letter from a listener.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Wow, well, these are trivia questions from a listener from
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I hope she doesn't. She may have stopped.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Does it mean wealth, freedom or gape, fame or knowledge?
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Do you guys? Have you ever had a dream where
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: you're flying?
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've done. Remember that time years ago
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: we did one where it was like the survey of
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: the most common dreams. Yeah, and I think that was
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: one of them, was like somehow you're falling or flying
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: so I've never had falling. I think I'm flying to
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I've had falling a bunch.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I've had falling. Flying was less.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: You know what dream I get a lot fucks me
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: up really bad. It's the one where something's happening and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I need to run, yes, and it's like every like
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: my body is because I'm a bad boy. My body
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: is like made of stone, and it's like I just
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: it's like you're trying to run through just like sludge,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, with everything I've got, I'm exerting and
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: nothing is happening.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I have the same dream. I think it's because of
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: this podcast. Okay, I think feeling we wanted to be
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: successful and we just keep pushing and pushing and going
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: up that hill. Damn it, no one's listening to us
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: rolling a stone. We're trying to make this listenable, but
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: it's just fun to just make jokes.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Stop at bombs and talk about hooker buzzes. Why don't
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: people take us seriously, Like, can't we get legitimate guests?
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Fair?
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that's probably the answer to the question. I'm
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: gonna go with freedom that feels like a putt.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna go with too as America.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going freedom. I like that eagle bit.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, America, Yeah we got it. Freedom or escape?
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Americans. I think dream of flying.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Freedom or escape I think is the motto of America.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I think it freedom or get out or you can
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: get out, you can escape out of moving fucking bus.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: All right, only one question? Right, So we're all tied
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: at winning.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: We're all tied at winning.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Found out my therapist is a Trump supporter. Hey, I
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: voted today. I did early voting.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I saw your oh by the way to see the
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: other post on Instagram. No, we have had our first
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: uh listener pilgrimage to britt Iowa.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: No way, somebody went Smitty. Oh does Smitty go for
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Hobo coun? I just decided to stop by Britt Iowa.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: I'm at the golf tournament today. I get a text
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: message from Smitty. It's a picture of him with his
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: kid with my sister. Yea, so I put it on
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: the Instagram. I was like, how does this happen? Just
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: wandered around Brett, Iowa yelling.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Nick's sister is this on our Instagram account? No way?
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't even notice this. Oh my god, there it is.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is great.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Smitty's in Britt your sister's doing the fucking feast side.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: This is so funny. Oh my god, that's so great. Man,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: I totally miss that. Oh that's fantastic. Good job, Smitty,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: that's great. I'm glad somebody went to Iowa, you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: because we're not going.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Is it cold there yet? Looks chilly there, Nah, I
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's probably fifties during the day, I suppose.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, early voting is open wherever you are, hopefully,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: but it is in Nevada, So get that shit in
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: because all elections matter and you matter. Found out my
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: therapist is a Trump supporter. I found out yesterday that
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: my therapist could very well be a Trump supporter or
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: she is simply a political She would not tell me
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: who she supports, but she did say that a lot
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: of people really like Trump. I'm a sexual assault survivor.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Trump is a self avowed sexual predator. This woman did
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong to me. She has helped me, and I
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: like her. But because there were people around me who
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: didn't believe me when I said I was sexually assaulted
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: as a teen, I will have trouble working with her
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: if she is not able to say that Trump is
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: a sexual predator. I feel sad about this. Of course,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: they're a therapist who are Trump supporters, And I believe
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: everyone has the right to vote for the candidate of
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: their choice and to choose their political party. But I'm
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: wondering what your thoughts are on the situation. The election
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: is fast approaching, and I know there are a lot
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: of people wrestling with politics as part of mental health.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks Anonymous.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, so this is funny. I mean.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Us so page immediately. I was.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So, I was playing in that golf tournament yesterday. Okay,
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: and uh, when you're in Vegas, all of these golf courses,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: they're built into golf course communities. Houses on both sides
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: live on them, Houses line the fairways.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I know that happened sometimes. I don't know that was
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: common virtual all of them pretty much.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I think there's like two in Vegas that don't. So
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: we're we're going in the fairway and one of the holes,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: and so you're seeing everyone's backyards.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Frank Thomas, Huh, I was playing golf on one of
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: the courses in Vegas, and Frank Thomas walked out of
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: his house. Oh, the pro baseball player. Oh wow, Frank Thomas,
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: and he knew our caddy, so we talked to him.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: So this somebody decorated their entire backyard all Trump like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: just flags banners. There had been like six or seven flags,
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: three or four huge banners. There was a cardboard cutout
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: of Trump. And next to Trump was the craziest shit
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: I've ever seen. There was a full on mannequin female
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: life size, had to be at least six foot tall,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: in a bikini and very lifelike of who just some
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: random female, oh random female, but with the Trump cutout,
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: with a cardboard cut out of Trump. Just the show
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: that he gets babes. Yes, I don't know what, but
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: does it?
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what the message was,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: the messages he gets me. I don't know what the
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: message was, but I will say very realistic, Like for
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: the longest time I thought it was a real person.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: And she's like, wow, she's just standing very s.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Got the money to live next to a golf course?
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Can you hire a professional to just stand in your
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: backyard next to your Trump cut out?
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: You could, or you could do what I think this
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: person did, which has actually got one of those Japanese
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: sex dolls that like that they actually make, because it
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: looked very Oh my god.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about these sex dolls. Tell me
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: more bullshit.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: You send me the links to check out.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: That's one that works a sponsor from the show.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: It was then though, that is great, But like the
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: guy I was golfing with, we were just kind of
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: looking at that man laughing and like, uh, he and
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: I the guy was golfing with, probably disagree politically, okay, okay,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: but we were both having a good chuckle at this. Yeah,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: because like this this gentleman, he wants to have that conversation. Yeah, yes,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: he is waiting for somebody to say. The guy was
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: probably sitting down in his backyard. I just didn't see him,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: but I'm sure he's just sitting there waiting like somebody's
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: gonna somebody's gonna throw something and I'm gonna be ready.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody gonna hit a golf ball. That's where I
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: thought it was going in the beginning, because I know
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: a driving ranges, they put stuff out there to hit
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: for fun at And when you were starting that story,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I thought, oh, that's interesting. The guy like like maybe
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: put out a cardboard of Trump and like want of
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Biden and like you could shoot at it or something,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: But no he doesn't because you just hit his house
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: with golf balls. Oh, I see you would.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: You wouldn't be able to put something in front of
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: your house for people to hit golf balls at without
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: getting golf balls hit at your house.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Seems like he's tempting faith though.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's why I would not do that at my
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: golf club house store to house. Yeah, I'd be like,
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: somebody's gonna have a golf ball at it and then
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: it's going to go through my fucking kitchen windows.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you get to have that conversation.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I think he is perfectly fine. I think you might be.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: This is like a weird standard ground guy, Like I
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: think he's there. He's just like, yeah, you hit a
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: ball at my house, and he's like running out on
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the I think he does. He might.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: It's all sorts of crazy there. So and we realize
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: that it is not representative all Trump supporters, so we're
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: definitely not going to get too deep into the political
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: waters here. But I like this question because I think
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: this the Trump era, So I want to break my
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: comments into a couple of pieces. One, I want to
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: reflect on how the politicking in therapy has been relevant,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: and then two, I want to talk about the unique
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: reality thes facing as a sexual assault survivor and fearing
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: that the therapist would support a sexual predator. Right, and
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: so two different aspects, I think, and that could be
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: in a variety of different angles. But let's start with
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: the first thing. In twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, I think
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: it was November of twenty fifteen, so the election had
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: just happened. I believe it was a Thursday Tuesday actually,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: because Trump had just been elected, and in the aftermath
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: there was this weeping and gnashing of teeth like among
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: sony people. I think that the national conscious had been
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: starkly like surprised. Hillary Clinton had been projected by every
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: major outlet to be just dunking on this dude. He won,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: and there had been so much fear about like He's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: going to build a wall in mass deportation, all the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: gay people are gonna be rounded up and putting cages,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and just like it was so extreme and there was
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: so much fear and across the community in Las Vegas
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: and the mental health community, there were like these all
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: out events among therapists where they were hosting like grieving
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: groups to like comfort people and help people through this,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and like you know special like ally groups for LGBT
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: and just like all these different things. And this got
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: so big that MPR National Public Radio, Yeah, the local
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: chapter of it invited in some therapists to talk about this,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: and I was one of them, and I went with
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: a U and l V professor who was hosting a
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: lot of these groups, who's also a really good therapist
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: in the community. She's an MFT and so we went
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: on the show and we both talked about theists it does.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Oh I wish it fucking did. Oh that's so great, therapist.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna use that with my students. So I'm literally
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: giving a speech like in a month on like licensures,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: and I am one hundred percent gonna pause on that.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that you still have this job
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: and we're all surprised. I know. That's a good way
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: to end this semester.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're going out, go out with a Jacob
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Smith Live. Just boom drop that mic, walk out of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: there with head held. I So we get on the
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: news and so we're talking about this and like she is,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: you know, to her, Look it was a different time,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: but she is just trying to comfort the masses. And
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: she's talking about who's the therapist therapist? Yeah, the motherfucking
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: the motherfucking therapist. Okay, and she's lovely, super respect her work.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't like the way she was angling in that episode.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: We were strongly being guided in that direction by the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: host who was asking us these very loaded questions. And
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: the assumption was, now that America is under attack, now
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: that all these groups are about to be boxed up
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: and shipped out and systematically prosecuted to the death, now
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: that the FBI is about to be weaponized and sent
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: home to home to gather, like estoppo, how do you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: comfort people in this time of great peril? And so
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: she's talking about great, let's talk about empowerment, let's talk
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: about creating, you know, groups to cope and to grieve,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: and then how we're going to stand up to power
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: and getting very politically preachy about here's how you advocate
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: for yourself and all this stuff. And I took a
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: very opposite approach. That this was my second appearance on NPR.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: That was the reason I had gotten the call because
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I had been called in years earlier for a different
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: one that was a big relevant episode about a trans
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: teenager who had taken their own life, and I brought
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: in to talk about that.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: I remember that one.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I had a good reputation with the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: station at this time.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: Was Yeah, humor Nick, Now that's just my thing.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: So I'd gotten called in for the second one.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I have Golfer instance worst thing this episode.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: It will be canceled by the end in this second
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: episode that I was called into. By the end of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: this I ruined my reputation so much with the station.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I've never been called back in all the years since.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: And what had happened was, yeah, this is pre mustache,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: this is back whenever. I was just a smitting young man.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: But I tried to explain to the masses that we're listening,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: You're going to be okay. I don't think this guy
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: is a good man either. I don't think he's a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: good president, but can we appreciate at this point a
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: billion dollars had been spent. It was the largest amount
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: of spending ever to send a message to fifty one
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: percent of the nation that this bad man is going
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: to kill you and destroy you. And I think he's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: a bad guy, and I don't think he's a good president.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: But can we agree that that much money being spent
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: is not being spent to accurately portray somebody. Can we
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: agree that the way to get a voter to vote
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: is with hyperbole and shock and that you have in
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: some way been manipulated, because that's what advertising is, that's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: what propaganda is. That's been happening this whole time. And
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: so I was trying to take the mature therapist approach
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: of saying, let's right size the fear right the gestapo
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: house to house thing is that we've been a nation
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: for a really long time. We've had a lot of
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: weird presidents. Like there's a lot of institutions that prevent
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Let's get your mental health straight.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Let's not sit here and talk about how to board
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: up your fucking house and AMMO up to defend yourself
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: and like how to hide your friends and family from
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: the bad man. And that's what the other therapist was saying.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: So just so I'm clear, Uh, you were not invited
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: back after telling a group of radio listeners that they
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: were just wrong and how they were feeling.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was invited back. Okay, the station was
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: taking the position of the end is near, yes, and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: I was taken a position of that is dangerous to say,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: there are the mental health christ and reaction. Well no,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't try to guess. It was a scary time.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: And they were like, they're they're reading all this data
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: about like reports of suicide after the election, and I
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, if you and I agree that that
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: is a fact, we have a responsibility on fucking NPR
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: with your huge ass audience, to speak peace and calm
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: and reassurance, not to say you're right, the sky is
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: falling and here's how you hide. So anyway, this circles
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: back to since the Trump era began in November of
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. In that sense, the politics surrounding therapy has
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: never been bigger, and we've talked a lot about it
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: on the show. I've gotten on my soapbox about therapists
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: having this ethical obligation not to impose political values, staying
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: a political or neutral and all those things being very
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: very important. So I just wanted to speak to that
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: because I think your question invites that openness of it
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: can be really difficult, and I wish the therapist had
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: never flashed any card that communicated that they might be
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: a Trumper, right, And it sounds like they were very
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: subtle about it. It sounds like the most they said
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: was a lot of people are supporting Trump, which seems
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: pretty innocuous to me.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: But that's what the therapist said.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, according to the question writer, they said something like
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: the therapist said, well, a lot of people are supporting him,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: and like that was enough to set this It's just
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: true off, which seems just more like a statement, and
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: we don't know what the context that textually if they
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: have come off a certain way, And so it's really
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: difficult because I don't want that, and me as a therapist,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: I have strived to really be really, really careful, and
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: so I just wanted to park on that point first,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: because if you are a colleague or a student, if
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: you're a therapist out there, I want you to notice
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: how such a small, innocuous, nine little comment has shattered
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: this human being and that is so tricky. So there's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially during the voting season, that
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: start getting really like ooh, I want to talk about it,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: and like, look, I'm a fucking podcaster. In this context,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: I could get up here and talk about who I
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: fucking vote for all day long without a shred of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: like being ironic about it or like, you know, having
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: some kind of hypocrisy. And in years past, especially during COVID,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: we mouthed off about politics all the time. And yeah,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I know I have patients and I beg them not
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: to because I don't think it's good for them to live.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: But anyway, if you're out there in your colleague, just
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: realize from this question how dangerous it is. I'll take
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: a breath, and then when I come back to my turn,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I'll talk a little bit about, you know, sexual assault
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: in that particular angle of this.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: But I do think so this could be broadened to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: be any topic where the patient feels like the therapist
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: has the opposite belief sure about X topic, right, because
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: the same thing happens often when it comes to things
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: like abortion. If someone is in therapy for for whatever reason,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: but maybe they're also dealing with the grief or loss
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: of a child, and then they feel like their therapist
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: has a different view that like like, oh, we we
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: conflict here on this, and how difficult it is to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: kind of open up and you just kind of feel like, well,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: why would I talk to you because I'm here to
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: talk about this one issue, and I get the sense
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: that you have a belief that is in conflict with
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: this issue. So, yeah, it completely disrupts the therapeutic alliance completely,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: which is.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: A little bit of I think, I would bet it's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: Bit of a lack of experience in therapy on the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: part of the patient, because, like you're what you're talking
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: about is really important when you're having a conversation with
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: a close friend about something that's important to you. If
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: you don't feel like you and your close friend are
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: on the same page, you might not feel that you
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: can communicate with that close friend about this true with
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: your therapist. It's it's what Jim was talking about. It's
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: supposed to not matter. It's supposed to not matter at
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: all because you're paying this personal Therapists are the sex
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: workers of the mental health industry. Trym like you were
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: paying this person to listen to you and to work
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: with you on these issues.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: There are exceptions, and and I think I think eighty
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: percent of the time Jacob's point, Yeah, that's correct. Always exceptions, yes,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: and the writer's story is an example of one. Right,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Because if you have suffered something like sex abuse, and
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: then like, let's take Trump out of it. Let's say
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that you you're uh, your therapist starts talking about how
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: let let's go with this. Your therapist starts talking about
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: how they're a huge Will Smith fan and there's a
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: new Bad Boys movie coming out and they're really excited
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: about it. And like, you are a male who is
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: physically assaulted by other males throughout your life, and you're
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: looking at this therapist like, so you just don't give
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: a fuck that Will Smith walked up to Chris Rock
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: and straight up assaulted him on live television. You still
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: support that artist after something like this. I don't feel
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: safe telling you about my shit anymore because I'm scared
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be cavalier about it.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Or I mean you could.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: When the patient walks in. Yeah, they could be like, oh,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: I love Halloween, I love Thriller. You know I love
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: and it's like you know he was a child bluster like,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: and that could be your personal truth is like I've
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: been through this, right, and knowing that you have some
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: kind of accepting attitude towards somebody that I perceive as
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: a monster. I don't think that's the patient being over sensitive.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: Oh I don't either. I think that's the exception to
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: the rule that shows like, hey, I get it, like
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I get why that's it.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: And again, like we've had this conversation before, which is
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: as therapists it, there's no point you're not going to
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: argue your case and say, well, no, no, no, here's
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: here's what I mean by this, or or or you're
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: not going to change somebody else's mind about something that's
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: their reality, like in the same sense that it like
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: if you had somebody who came to you, Jim, and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: came into your office and was like Trump won the election.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: I feel like the world's gonna end. I feel like X, Y,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: and Z. You're not going to tell that, well, no, no, no,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: you're wrong. It's okay. Things are going to be around.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: That's no. What you're gonna say is you're gonna say
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: you're gonna say, okay, we acknowledge those feelings and let's
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: find a way to work through that. Right. You don't
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: challenge reality. You go with the reality because it doesn't matter,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: because their reality is what's their perception.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to help them right size it
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: by saying things like, you know, when they say we're
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: all doomed, it's all going to be over like. I'll
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: bet it does feel that way right now. Sure, But
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: how did you feel in the twenty sixteen election when
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: he won? Oh my god, I was so scared. I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: was waiting for the Gestapo to come. I'll bet that
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: was pretty scary too, it was. Did at what point
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: did you start feeling hopeful again?
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: Well, you know this, and now you're helping them disentangle
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: the closeness they have to the fear. But you're not
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: doing it by telling them you're wrong. You're overreacting.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and I want to say too, I
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: don't mean when I said that it's not supposed to
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: matter what your therapist thinks about these things, whether whether
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: your therapist agrees with you on these points or not.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: I mean that as a as a dig on your
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: current therapist. I think your current therapist possibly has is
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: fucked up here.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: I don't like that they accidentally showed a car and
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's horrible, it's probably not
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Sometimes you slip up. You know or you
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: don't even notice that, you don't even know that your
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: patient is political or non political, and then you or
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: they say something like you know, Kama's going to win
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: in a landslide, and like you're worried that they say
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: that because you're thinking, hey, I can see that you're
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: really emotionally invested in this, and I worry for you
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: because a lot of people are going to vote for
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, you know, or it's or they might say
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: something big like I've I've had situations where the patient
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: says something. I can imagine myself saying something like this
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: therapist did, because I could see a situation where the
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: patient says, you know, I mean I've heard of people
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: who vote for Donald Trump. They're all fucking racist and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Confederates and weird, and you know, like that's an unhealthy
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: perspective to go back into your job with, you know,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: or to your kid's school, you know what. So like
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: I would pepper in something like some I think like
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are voting for him, like yeah,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: fifty percent of the nation, you know, and just for perspectiving, yes.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: And it can very easily just be as simple as
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: when you think of Donald Trump wright, the first thing
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: that you think of may very well be sexual predator. Yeah,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: that might be the first thing that pops into your
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: head when you hear the words Donald Trump is the
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: word sexual predator. And that's fair. That's that's how you
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: relate to that. That may not be the case with
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: your therapist, a therapist home alone, too, that's it. I
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: think if the great work he did in the WWF.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: First thought, you know, he really has a portfolio. He
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: was in Little Rascals, There you go, very good movie,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: there you go. You know, I liked it.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: But I'm just like, yeah, it doesn't have to be
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be just that one thing. But
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: that doesn't negate the fact that that is what you
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: think of, and that therapist probably should have been a
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: little more.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Conscious of that. So Nick, now that this is out,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: the patient is saying, this is on my mind, but
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: I still like this therapist. I don't have an issue
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: with the person voting. They've done good work, but the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: sexual thing is hurting me. How do you want that
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: patient to proceed?
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: That's a tough question. I think I would Here's how
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: I would do it. I would go to the next session,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: just feel it out see how it goes. Okay, if
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: this issue doesn't come up again and we can still
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: make progress on whatever goals and objectives I have on
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: my treatment plan, we can still make progress in that direction,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: then maybe this just kind of settles down, It just
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: kind of simmers, and we're able to still stay on
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: point right. But if it's one of those things that
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: it just it continues to stir and it now becomes
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: the obstacle that's preventing progress on the other goals and
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: objectives you've got for treatment, then I think maybe that
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: needs to be discussed.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: So maybe we bring it up. If it's in our
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: mind and we can't move on from this and we're
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: distracted by it, and now it's an obstacle, it sounds
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: like we suggesting there is we want you to bring
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: it up. I want you to share this with your therapy.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I wouldn't just like ghost the therapist.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see that. I'm just show the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: two things I don't want to see. And we've given
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: this advice before about talking to your therapist about something
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: difficult that they did or bothered you. A I don't
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: want to see you run away.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: I hate that.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: B I don't want to see you come out to
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: this person in an accusatory way. You've been doing all
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: this therapy. Let's use those therapy skills to talk to
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: the therapist and to say it in that generalist way,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: to say, as you know, as I've shared, I'm a
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: sexual assault survivor. Because of that, I think I've noticed
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: I have a real sensitivity to anybody out there in
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: the world who I believe to be, you know, a
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: sexual perpetrator, and I consider Donald Trump to be that.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: And the other day I felt like whenever you talked
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: about him, just by noting that he has a lot
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: of voters, either it sounded like you were normalizing him
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: or it sounded like maybe even kind of slanted toward him.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: And both of those thoughts scare me because I trust
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: you with my truth, but I see him as a
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: bad and dangerous person. I'm struggling.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: That's the way I'd want you to present it and
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: let the therapist untie that knot, let them unpack it,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: and they might not. They might self disclose. And I've
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: seen therapists at this point go Okay, great, I'm just
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: gonna self disclose I'm not voting.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: For that guy.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a political in therapy, but just so you know,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I also don't like him. I'm not going to vote
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: for or that therapist may continue to play neutral and say, hey, look,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: thank you for telling me that. Thank you for telling
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: me that. To be clear, I don't endorse candidates, and
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I didn't mean that. That's not how I
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: wanted that to come off. Here's the context of how
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: I made that comment. You said X, I said, why,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: I thought we were just talking math. I did not
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: appreciate that that could have sounded like that to you.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you for telling me. Now, let's
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: work through that. So that's what I would want.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: You to do. What do you think the chances are
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: the therapist will say those allegations are a hoax. And
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: here's why.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, depends on So this is what breaks me
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: is there are a lot of therapy does happen. And
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: this goes back to I think one of my big
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: complaints about the profession, and you know, I did that
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: stupid series of seven deadly sins, and one of them
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: was apprentice abandonment. And this is where I feel that
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: we have not been able to because of circumstances outside
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: of our control, because of the financial realities of the
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: field and the way we've designed this, we didn't, but
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: the way it is designed for us. I designed it,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: Jacob did it. We do not get to mentor the
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: new people the way I wish we could. And that's
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: a lack of mentorship because the exciting therapists now are
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: like the influencer bullshit that are out there preaching revolution
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: and change and all sorts of unethical nonsense. And like
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: the moderate, boring, even handed mentors that should be training
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: the up and comers would have taught them how to
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: handle this that yep, this, this kind of shit happens.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: You don't get defensive about it. You don't you know,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: push back, you don't correct. There is some jiu jitsu
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: you can do to get through this and preserve the
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: therapeutic alliance. But it is hard because that is not
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: something you would have read a textbook. That is something
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: you have heard another therapist do or they have coached you,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: and now you know the very gentle dance of how
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: to navigate through that. It is not easy, but that
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: is a time and experience kind of thing, or a
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: character disposition, but some people are born with it.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's Mabelene.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's Mabelene. Hopefully that helps.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, writer, enabling commercial in a really long time.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: I would go back to the therapist if you do
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: decide to go back to therapists, if you feel like
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: you need to, I would go through the lens of
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: talking about yourself, and not through the lens.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: I'd like, tell your therapist what they said and how
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: that affected you.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, but go through the lens of how it affected you,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: not through the lens of what you necessarily think about
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: the therapist and your opinions on the therapist.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: Let them work through that side as well.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: I agree with that anyway, Writer, lean in on the relationship,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: don't pull away, don't ghost, don't come in guns blazing.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Be in a good meditative space. Whenever you share this,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: and share it through a personal perspective, not as everybody
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: knows this is true, that is true, or even accusationally.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: You meant this when you said that, this is what
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: you were saying, this is what you believe. Don't do that.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Come in from a position of curiosity and vulnerability. Here's
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: how that affected me. I know in my heart. That
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: is not what you wanted. You did not want me
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: to feel this way, but that is how I felt.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: I'm revealing it to you, and I want to work
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: on this together. How can we get through this done? Yep,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: you've done all your part. Now it's a therapist's job.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: And then if the therapist hands you a long sign
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: for Trump, then maybe start shopping.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, now there's a problem.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: Wait but wait until I mean I say that jokingly
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: but also kind of seriously, like, wait until you know
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: that there is a problem before addressing the problem. Like
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: make sure that, like go back a therapist, make sure
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: this problem exists the way that you believe that it does.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: And maybe you're just right, and maybe it is irreparable,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: but maybe maybe it's not irreparable. Maybe you're mistaken about
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: certain points in this maybe all the points.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Who knows. Yeah, you know, I believe it can probably
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: be addressed, though, And it's tricky because there's a part
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: of me that wants to say that that line about. Look,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: even if you're a therapist, you bring this up and
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: the therapist says, okay, wow, I'm sad that you went
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: through this. I do support Donald Trump. I already voted
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: for him, but just so you know, I'm really against
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: that stuff. I don't I don't agree with that, or
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: the therapist might say, I think that stuff's been exaggerated
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: by people that are trying to sabotage his political career.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: I disagree with all that stuff. Here's ten reasons why,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: you know. And that gets really tricky, right because now
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: we're getting deeper and deeper into something I don't think
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: is really healthy for either of you to be talking about.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: But some therapists can feel like, oh, I need to
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: help you by telling you it's not what you think.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't support a sexual predator, so it's the opposite.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: He's not one. Let me explain why I would hate
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: if that would happen. But I've seen that scenario where
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: the therapist feels like that's what's going to fix this,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: and again it's with lack of mentorship.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: On a side note, I've been reading David mcraney's book
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: How to Change Mind or How Mine's Change. That's really interesting.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: Oh it's a great book, so great.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just the idea that facts have zero that doesn't
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: do it on how people change minds.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's it's really fascinating. We're gonna get to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: do a lot of deep dives with that and we'll
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: see what that evolves into. But yeah, exciting stuff. But writer,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: lean back in, lean back into therapy. Hopefully this comes out.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: Hopefully this is something too if you can get beyond,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: I would caution you against a quest for truth. It's
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: not putting this person on trial. It's really just saying
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: I want to repair the relationship and move on. That's it.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Convince me that I shouldn't be scared around you. And
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you have to show me your entire
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: voting resume. That's because that doesn't matter. You will always
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: be disappointed, like there's always going to be something you
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: voted for this state senate race. How could you He's
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: a bad man. It's like, okay, at some point, we
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: can't do this, Like it's got to be also a
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: medical appointment about your nie Kelly.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: It doesn't their personal the therapist life, Yeah doesn't matter
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: as far as as far as your concerns.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: To less matter, way less than where it is. Right now,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: we're gonna take a final break and then when we
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: come back, we're gonna wrap up the show you're listening
• 1:23:29
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