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Bond... James Bond with Daniel de Boulay · Pop Culture Junkie®

• 0:00
  ♪ Entertain, me, entertain me right now ♪
• 0:04
  Hello and welcome to the Pop Culture Junkie podcast.
• 0:07
  I'm Shauna here as always with my fellow junkie.
• 0:11
  Olivia.
• 0:12
  And this week we have a very special guest.
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  Daniel de Boulay is a producer, essayist and screenwriter
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  who served as an acquisitions executive at Sony Pictures
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  for several years.
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  de Boulay is an alum of the Academy Awards Gold Program.
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  He is also an accomplished music producer and composer.
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  He's currently working on an essay about James Bond
• 0:36
  for the Splice.
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  Welcome, Daniel.
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  Thank you for being here.
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  - Hello, hello, hello.
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  It's good to be here.
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  I am definitely a Pop Culture Junkie.
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  So it's gonna be a good conversation.
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  - Yes.
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  Where are you joining us from today?
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  Where do you live?
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  - I live in Culver City, which is in Los Angeles
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  County, which is really, really hot.
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  Man, it's like, I don't know if you guys can,
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  whoever can see the video here,
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  if you've ever seen the movie Cool Hand Luke.
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  - I look like I'm from the movie Cool Hand Luke.
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  (laughing)
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  There's like an episode of Cheers
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  where I think it's norm and wording
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  have this debate about what movie has the most sweating.
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  And at the end, they're like cool hand Luke,
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  lots of sweating and Cool Hand Luke.
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  - That's hilarious.
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  I probably would have said like an inappropriate film
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  has the most sweating, but Cool Hand Luke's a good choice.
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  - There you go.
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  - There you go.
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  - Yeah.
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  - Okay, I see what you mean.
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  - I saw it.
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  - I see what you mean.
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  I don't know if that's what you mean.
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  - I see what you mean.
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  - Oh gosh.
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  Well, of course you live in California being, you know,
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  the Mr. Movie Guy that you are,
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  that makes a lot of sense.
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  It's a close to Hollywood.
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  - I basically live eight minutes from where I used to work
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  at Sony.
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  So it's like, I moved to, I guess, because of that,
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  but I don't work anymore.
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  So I guess it's like living just near your ex-girlfriend.
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  - Just drive by sometimes.
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  - Yeah.
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  - And you can just go to your own town.
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  So take us, I guess, to the beginning, Daniel,
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  how did you get into becoming, you know,
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  a movie producer and essayist, a screenwriter,
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  and what kind of started your journey
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  in pop culture and film?
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  - Probably by six great teacher, Mrs. Patch Kowski.
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  So like, she's gonna do this thing where,
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  if you wrote a book report about anything,
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  and so she was like, you got a book report about a movie,
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  about a TV show, about a song, whatever.
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  As long as you're writing, she would give you extra credit.
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  And so I guess I used to start,
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  I guess that's the first time someone
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  that would let me write about movies.
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  If I'm gonna be, ah, it's probably, it's Patch Kowski.
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  So it's probably her, I haven't thought about that in a minute.
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  It's probably her.
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  I mean, she got remarried, so now her name is Reed now.
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  - Well, if you're listening,
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  you started this man on his career path.
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  - Yeah, they're also listening after us.
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  - That's amazing.
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  - And walk us through kind of like,
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  what does an acquisition executive do for us,
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  a layman people?
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  - That's funny, 'cause I didn't know what acquisition was
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  when I graduated college.
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  I was put into the division because I had work,
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  I'd interned at a few production companies,
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  and then I interned for the Los Angeles Creek Film Festival.
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  I guess the HR department at Sony,
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  he was which was a guy at the time, Joe Camarena,
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  and I think he might have used to be a photographer too.
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  But he, I guess, saw that I was interested
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  in that side of the business,
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  and then he put me in the acquisitions division of studio.
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  But if people that don't know,
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  it should be like me when I was put into the division.
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  - Definitely me too.
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  (laughs)
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  - Yeah, 'cause anytime you do like an indie movie,
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  getting acquired by a studio,
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  then that has to go through the acquisitions division.
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  So essentially acquisitions are folks who are buying
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  independent movies on behalf of the studio.
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  It's kind of like the studios liaison
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  to the independent film.
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  - I feel like.
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  - It's not a good thing because more and more things
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  are independent these days because a lot of money
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  in development is just not there.
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  So I have a more interesting things
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  to really get developed internally at studios anymore.
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  So acquisitions has become pretty important as a late,
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  'cause a lot of packages are put together
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  by capital outside of the system,
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  and then acquisitions divisions will see it.
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  Even with studios like,
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  I'll refer to 824 as a studio, technically,
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  you wouldn't call them one of the major studios,
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  but for this exercise I will.
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  - They're getting up there now.
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  - Exactly, exactly.
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  So, but even with a studio like 824,
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  when they want to distribute their movies internationally,
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  they also submit their titles to an acquisitions division,
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  like Sony or Universal or any of them,
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  because they'll want to take advantage
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  of the international machine that's so fun
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  that the C Studios have because they don't really have
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  their own international machine.
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  'Cause typically, and the business needs to be a lot better,
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  but typically, you know, you can make a movie
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  and then sell the rights all around the world
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  to different countries.
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  And people still do that very well.
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  Lionsgate, honestly, they do that very well,
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  where they'll make a movie like 100 games,
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  or even 100 games prequels,
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  and then they'll take some of those territorial rights
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  and they'll pay for the movie by its tree selling
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  and all around the world.
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  But that business is a lot more troubled as of way.
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  So typically, as a studio like 824,
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  if they can, they'll make a deal with one distributor
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  who has a wide international footprint.
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  And it saves them the hassle of having to do deals
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  all around the world, 'cause you have to close a deal
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  for every individual territory when you do do that.
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  And that can accumulate to be a larger amount,
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  and if you were to just, you know,
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  make a deal with one global distributor,
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  like if you were to do the work of doing it,
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  that number can be higher, but it is a lot of work.
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  And there are less buyers than ever.
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  And so a lot of times you see more global folks,
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  just taking all of the international for someone like
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  at 824, but it doesn't always happen that way.
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  Usually, but it does happen.
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  - Yeah, that like conglomerate coming together.
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  - Yeah, exactly.
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  - So did you go to school for filmmaking?
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  Like what made you want to follow the path to become
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  like an acquisition executive?
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  - So I got accepted into film school
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  at the Lolli-O-N-R, at university.
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  And when I went there, we were like a top 10 film school,
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  and then when I left there were a top eight
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  and I think now they're top five.
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  - Nice. - 'Cause they told me,
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  "Okay, of course."
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  (laughing)
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  So that was good.
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  But when I was there, I went in as a film production major,
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  and then at the time, I told myself,
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  like, "Oh, I'll be a film production major.
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  "I'll study marketing and I'll study screenwriting."
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  And then I couldn't do all three.
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  So then at some point what I did was,
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  I switched from production to screenwriting,
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  because I looked at this woman named Jeanette,
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  and Jeanette was always on set.
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  So I assumed that she was a production major,
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  because I had just always seen her on set.
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  And then as I get talking,
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  I was like, "No, I'm actually a screenwriting major,
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  "because I'm a screenwriting major.
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  "I just take it apart myself to be on set all the time."
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  And then I was like, "Huh, I want to be more like Jeanette."
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  So then I changed my major after having a conversation with her.
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  I changed to screenwriting,
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  and then I just kind of did what she did,
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  which was I was on set like every single week at in film school.
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  I was talking to Jeanette, joking with somebody.
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  I mean, one time we were on set,
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  and we were filming something like in front of like a building
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  where all the sorority girls were gonna get ready
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  to go to a party.
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  So we just see like all these trap hoys and sorority girls,
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  like lying up, getting ready to get drunk.
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  And we're just looking at them and we're like,
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  "We did not spend college having fun,
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  "but we did not do that."
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  I have so many memories of spending my weekends in film school,
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  like in downtown LA, carrying combo stance.
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  For those who don't know,
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  the combo stand is like a very heavy,
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  light holder.
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  I guess that's a very work way of simplifying it.
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  Like the lights in film are heavy.
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  So you'll have very heavy things to hold.
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  I was just doing manual labor.
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  - Yeah, I'm pretty much a pro artist.
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  - For free, yeah, for free.
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  I was sending a loan to do it.
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  When you're on set, it's like, you know,
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  a person's thesis, they only have three days to do it.
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  So they don't have enough time and it's 12 hour days.
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  And you know that and you kept,
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  yeah, so I was like, we was doing 36 hours on the weekends.
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  So basically a full time job in a three days
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  and then going back to class.
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  So I was like, man, I have a few might have had a lot more fun with me.
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  But, yeah.
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  - Well, hopefully you could have some party
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  since graduation then.
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  - Yeah.
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  (laughing)
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  - I find it a lot of business stuff.
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  I find one.
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  (laughing)
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  - And do you,
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  any film like really exciting film sets
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  that you remember being on?
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  Like what were some of your highlights
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  or anything we might have heard of?
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  - Well, I mean, in film school,
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  I don't think I was on any sets that you've heard of,
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  but there was a,
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  my one of my first sets that was really cool was
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  one of the graduate students
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  made a short film about immigration.
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  And so he wanted to shoot some of it on a stage.
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  So we had to like build and recreate and paint
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  the inside of a U-Val
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  'cause that's like in the plot of his story.
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  There were like immigrants
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  that were being transported in the back of a U-Val.
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  So we built that on the stage,
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  then he matched it with like another U-Val
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  that he just like rented for a day.
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  And that was a cool project.
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  'Cause.
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  - Yeah.
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  - It was very creative.
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  It was very, it was difficult.
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  Like I spent a lot of time like doing production,
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  like at least helping people doing production art.
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  I said, and I kind of like,
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  they're like, there are two things that are really important
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  in the frame to make something look high quality.
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  It's the production design of course,
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  but also people, people take it,
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  they do, you sometimes take for granted
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  how it's like filling people in a frame
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  who will make something look big.
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  So yeah, yeah, for some interesting sense.
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  I'm don't know how that was on a set of something called,
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  I think it was called American Ninja Warrior,
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  which is like a rock show.
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  - Yeah.
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  - I love American Ninja Warrior.
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  - I love American Ninja Warrior.
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  - It was like something with the rock.
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  Yeah, I remember that.
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  And I remember like,
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  I remember being a TA or something like that.
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  They'd be shouting like the middle of a parking lot
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  in a row in a day.
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  I remember in my head thinking like,
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  on TV this looks like it's like a whole arena.
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  And like, it looks like it's like this huge thing,
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  but they wouldn't do that.
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  Oh, it's just a parking lot.
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  (laughing)
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  - The magic of Hollywood.
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  - Yeah, it looks so much bigger than the TV.
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  - TV magic.
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  That's amazing.
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  That's really really cool.
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  And how did you ultimately start transitioning into SAS?
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  And what was kind of that evolution in your career?
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  - So after I left so many,
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  one of the things that I,
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  after the Sony from being a buyer,
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  traditionally being a producer,
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  so now I got to spend more time
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  just focusing on the things that I cared about.
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  So I produced a movie last year
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  with Justin Long, One More It's That's In Close Production.
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  - Oh, awesome.
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  - And then one of the things about that journey
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  was it's a comedy film.
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  And one of the reasons that the producer brought me
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  onto the project thought,
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  she was like, you're gonna be perfect for this.
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  Is that I am low-key obsessed with comedy.
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  And one of the habits that I started
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  when I left Sony was going to open mics
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  with real comedians and just doing them.
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  I don't think I'm a real comedian like them
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  'cause there's like two aspects to comedy.
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  There's writing the joke,
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  which I think maybe I can do.
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  But then there's like performing the joke,
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  which I'm like, I don't know.
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  (laughing)
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  I've done a few shows.
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  I've done like a some like,
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  bring your shows and I'm like,
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  I don't think this is my craft.
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  And when you're there with like a comedian
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  who's like a theater type kid who loves to perform,
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  then you do gotta feel like,
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  oh this guy, this guy, this guy.
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  But one of the things that happened in doing that is
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  I just started to get in the habit of writing more
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  and which is what I really wanted to do.
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  I remember I was playing up cat,
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  filling gas in the tank when you're like,
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  it's just go to the conversation to just do this.
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  I always wanted to do it.
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  And then I love going to a comic that I'm using this.
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  It's like, I almost cheated like,
• 12:45
  the way other people treat AA means, sometimes I'm going too much,
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  I'm like, I have to go to a meeting,
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  I have to go to a open light and get something off my chest.
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  And I've also noticed that sometimes there've been things
• 12:58
  that I've never been able to talk about,
• 13:00
  even some dark things in life,
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  but then I'll be like,
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  now let me try it on stage.
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  And then this app also noticed that it's also good
• 13:07
  for a moment for like,
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  if there is anything that I'm still like,
• 13:10
  he having joked about that, honestly,
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  it's 'cause I'm too nervous.
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  And it's also like a kind of thing for myself,
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  it's like, you probably still work there.
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  'Cause it's like, you should, in my theory is life,
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  and maybe this is everyone's theory,
• 13:20
  but in my theory is like,
• 13:21
  you should be able to joke about literally anything.
• 13:25
  - Yeah.
• 13:25
  - And it should roll off of you.
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  And she can't do that, then you're in active pain.
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  That's why I call it a real life.
• 13:31
  (laughing)
• 13:32
  - I like that, I like that.
• 13:33
  - You know, like, and it may not be the same
• 13:35
  for everybody else.
• 13:37
  - No, Olivia and I make a lot of dark jokes
• 13:39
  on the podcast to work your ass,
• 13:40
  - Yeah, trombas.
• 13:41
  - Yeah, that's like, that's how you know,
• 13:43
  and like, we have the two to what I love about,
• 13:46
  when you go to the open mics is,
• 13:48
  sometimes you'll joke about something that was bothering you a lot,
• 13:51
  but then it doesn't resonate with anyone in the room,
• 13:53
  which is humbling,
• 13:54
  'cause then you're like, oh, literally nobody cares.
• 13:56
  (laughing)
• 13:57
  Or someone after you, like, I know one time,
• 14:00
  I remember I was like complaining about something to suit.
• 14:03
  And then the guy went on after me,
• 14:05
  was like, what are you complaining about?
• 14:07
  You're a film producer, like,
• 14:09
  "Dude, I'll be on my lunch break.
• 14:10
  I work at Target."
• 14:11
  And his set was hilarious.
• 14:13
  It was really good.
• 14:14
  - I remember it was like, yeah,
• 14:15
  like I'm probably in my head, that's what it was.
• 14:17
  - But it's perspective.
• 14:18
  - Yeah, exactly.
• 14:19
  - Yeah, I love that.
• 14:20
  So writing has been an outpouring of emotion for you.
• 14:24
  - Yeah, I think it's like,
• 14:26
  when you're starring in comedy,
• 14:28
  it's a mixture of your writing,
• 14:30
  it could eventually not say what there's rules,
• 14:32
  but then there's also kind of like,
• 14:33
  it's like a puzzle piece,
• 14:36
  'cause you're trying to like get to a joke,
• 14:38
  but also you have to tell us for you,
• 14:40
  'cause like, and the story should be entertained,
• 14:42
  even if there were no jokes.
• 14:43
  So even if you didn't laugh,
• 14:44
  I think you should kind of still be able to like,
• 14:47
  I don't know what I enjoy it.
• 14:48
  So I started doing that.
• 14:50
  And once I started doing that,
• 14:51
  I just kind of had to write it more.
• 14:53
  And then I was like, well,
• 14:55
  I don't know if I really want only right-spirit blade sign
• 14:58
  to sometimes right-street blades of my own.
• 15:00
  But I was like, there's some,
• 15:02
  there's some like topics that I just like to write essays for.
• 15:04
  And then I started reading,
• 15:06
  and I think also when I was at Sony,
• 15:08
  there was a movie, the division made it called Downtown Owl,
• 15:12
  which is an adaptation of a novel that Chuck Clawsterry wrote.
• 15:15
  And Chuck Clawsterry has become one of my favorite writers.
• 15:19
  I think when they created that movie,
• 15:20
  based on his book,
• 15:22
  King King back up in my,
• 15:23
  I guess just like my radar.
• 15:27
  And so I've been reading a lot of his stuff lately,
• 15:29
  and I like the way he writes,
• 15:31
  he disparates himself as a generalist.
• 15:33
  So sometimes he'll write these,
• 15:35
  not sometimes.
• 15:36
  So what he'll do is he'll write these really interesting pop
• 15:39
  cultural essays.
• 15:41
  And there'll be about all sorts of things.
• 15:43
  There'll be about football,
• 15:44
  it'll be about why Nerfana decided to make Inuita Rwanda,
• 15:49
  an album, it'll be about Kirk Vandes in authentic.
• 15:52
  - Yeah. - It'll be,
• 15:53
  it's just like random, different things.
• 15:55
  - Unbound. - Unbound, right.
• 15:58
  - Love it. - And like every now and then
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  it'll be something like profound
• 16:01
  and he got there, you do using something
• 16:03
  go better or get there.
• 16:04
  - And I love that.
• 16:05
  I also need to go to something smart
• 16:06
  and apply it to something a little bit.
• 16:08
  And he just didn't take,
• 16:09
  it's like a cool, Jeff's acquisition.
• 16:12
  - Yeah, that's awesome.
• 16:13
  Now I love that.
• 16:14
  Does that kind of carry over,
• 16:16
  you're a music producer, your composer,
• 16:18
  like when you're creating music too?
• 16:21
  - Yeah, I definitely think so,
• 16:22
  because I think that I, a product of internet
• 16:25
  and millennial, a lot of the art that I like know about
• 16:29
  is from Wikipedia.
• 16:32
  I just do a guy like, you know, go out with me,
• 16:34
  and he's going to do a lot of,
• 16:35
  do you know I find you still put
• 16:36
  the Wikipedia game in college?
• 16:37
  I'm also a little bit nervous.
• 16:39
  Was I still doing, like,
• 16:40
  60 degrees of separation with Wikipedia?
• 16:41
  - Oh yeah.
• 16:42
  - I love that.
• 16:43
  - I do, I get in so many Wikipedia holes.
• 16:46
  I'll just be laying there in bed.
• 16:47
  And I'm like, why did I read the entire plot
• 16:49
  of this movie I've never seen?
• 16:51
  (laughing)
• 16:52
  - And I think one of the things about that
• 16:54
  where it does is maybe like, if someone,
• 16:58
  I got my thinking always,
• 16:59
  I'm like, maybe when my dad heard it,
• 17:01
  he didn't hear all the context.
• 17:03
  He just heard the music.
• 17:05
  But now when, you know, I read about
• 17:07
  Patty Smith's forces,
• 17:09
  by the time I'm done with the Wikipedia album,
• 17:11
  I have no problem more about the album.
• 17:13
  Some people listen to the album for decades.
• 17:15
  (laughing)
• 17:16
  So then, and then you like,
• 17:18
  we'll dive into the album.
• 17:19
  And then, and like, I remember like,
• 17:21
  what this experience looks like in real life,
• 17:23
  like I never one time,
• 17:24
  I was writing a list of like, best total rock albums,
• 17:28
  which is like a term that only the music critic
• 17:31
  is applying to music after the fact, right?
• 17:34
  And then, and then, and then I think one time,
• 17:37
  I said, "Protol," I used the phrase "Protol Punk"
• 17:39
  'cause sometimes someone might work
• 17:41
  instead of like, Patty Smith to be "Protol Punk"
• 17:43
  not necessarily, kind of, whatever.
• 17:45
  But I wrote something like that on the Instagram,
• 17:47
  and they're like, "Older person in group with Patty."
• 17:50
  So it was like, "What's?"
• 17:51
  (laughing)
• 17:52
  What is this phrase?
• 17:53
  I never heard of this in my life.
• 17:54
  - You made that up.
• 17:55
  - Yeah, correct, correct.
• 17:57
  So it's like, I think that's interesting.
• 17:59
  But like, so I think, not because I've written these essays,
• 18:01
  I kind of think about like, well,
• 18:03
  it definitely happened in intellectualized approach to art.
• 18:08
  So I think it's like, it's interesting,
• 18:10
  'cause George Lucas is releasing this museum
• 18:13
  out here called the museum,
• 18:14
  that I remember, but he, he had said like,
• 18:18
  well, I want to call it a museum for orphanage art,
• 18:22
  as it's like, you know, people kind of looked down upon
• 18:26
  where art is viewed, so I want to give it a museum
• 18:29
  just for that.
• 18:30
  - So I like that.
• 18:31
  - Yeah, it's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering,
• 18:33
  I'm like, well, that's like a definitely generational thing,
• 18:35
  because I'm like, we've grown up consuming all sorts
• 18:38
  of pretentious analysis of very low-brow art.
• 18:42
  Like, I can go on YouTube and watch like a three hour dive
• 18:45
  into the Star Wars World War,
• 18:47
  and the person who made it is like a master's
• 18:49
  educated person who put the museum in the USA.
• 18:52
  So I'm like, I'm wondering, I'm like,
• 18:53
  I feel like we have a more analytical approach
• 18:56
  to even low-brow art than like,
• 18:59
  we did in the past.
• 19:00
  So I guess it's like, now I feel like,
• 19:02
  it's not so uncommon to get like an essay,
• 19:04
  it's like a truck pass journey.
• 19:06
  So I've been like, what I like writing about in this is those
• 19:10
  that, so right now, I've started getting happy
• 19:14
  of trying to write more about the business of entertainment too,
• 19:18
  and using LinkedIn as a way to kind of,
• 19:20
  because my network includes a lot of executions
• 19:21
  and like, pretty soon, kind of talking about it,
• 19:24
  you and I say, they're, and I've found it to be
• 19:27
  a very high experience.
• 19:29
  You learn a lot, and sometimes there's a phrase
• 19:32
  that Chris never gets into, which is,
• 19:33
  sometimes you don't know what you believe
• 19:35
  until you write it down.
• 19:36
  Like, you kind of think you believe in certain things,
• 19:39
  and you think you have a certain process or something,
• 19:41
  but then sometimes when you write an essay,
• 19:43
  you're like, do I actually play this?
• 19:46
  Or when you're weighing your thoughts out,
• 19:48
  you're like, is this actually gonna,
• 19:51
  like I want to, at LA La Mena,
• 19:53
  you talk about the Jesuit retreat sometimes.
• 19:56
  So, 'cause it's like the Jesuit's one in the university.
• 19:58
  - Yeah.
• 19:59
  - So like, you talk Augustine, and so,
• 20:01
  saying Augustine, I was like,
• 20:02
  we have a way to argue, it's where it's,
• 20:05
  okay, we're gonna say this, we're gonna say this,
• 20:06
  we're gonna say this, and because we said all this,
• 20:09
  actually the conclusions this.
• 20:11
  I think that, and the exercise of forcing yourself
• 20:14
  to do that and writing, I think clarifies you thinking.
• 20:17
  So, I like that.
• 20:20
  I think it was, oh gosh, you want to talk a low-brow.
• 20:22
  Matt Stone or Trey Parker.
• 20:25
  - There you go.
• 20:26
  - That was like, right, when you're creating an episode,
• 20:30
  like when they're creating an episode of South Park,
• 20:32
  they want their process to go, this happens,
• 20:35
  and therefore this happens, and therefore this happens.
• 20:39
  - Yes.
• 20:40
  - Instead of, you know, sometimes you watch a movie,
• 20:42
  and you're like, instead of the therefore they do and.
• 20:45
  And this happens, and this happens, and this happens,
• 20:48
  and there's no, you know, conclusion,
• 20:50
  it doesn't make sense, it has to be a therefore,
• 20:52
  this leads to this, therefore this happens,
• 20:54
  therefore that happens.
• 20:55
  So, I can see that.
• 20:56
  - That's a genius.
• 20:57
  It's true, right?
• 20:58
  You've got to be blessed at the gate.
• 20:59
  That's like, that's a privilege.
• 21:00
  - Yeah, I think about that all the time
• 21:02
  when I watch films and you know, even television shows,
• 21:05
  I'm like, are they just throwing things at the wall
• 21:07
  and then and then, or is it, therefore, and therefore?
• 21:11
  - Every now and then, and then will be an interesting movie,
• 21:15
  every now and then, but it's like, it's not,
• 21:18
  it's not awesome, but every now and then.
• 21:20
  - Yeah, if it's like absurdist comedy,
• 21:22
  it's just like, and then they do this,
• 21:23
  and then they go there.
• 21:25
  - Yeah, and then, and then, and then, yeah.
• 21:30
  - What is the Academy Awards Gold Program,
• 21:35
  and how does one become a member?
• 21:37
  - So, you can apply to it.
• 21:39
  I sort of applied to it.
• 21:42
  So, when I was made an internet tummy,
• 21:44
  it kind of went in this program
• 21:46
  so that I was concurrently,
• 21:48
  so I was an internet sony,
• 21:49
  and that I was also placed into this program.
• 21:51
  So, with the Academy Awards data was,
• 21:53
  they did this like in the wave
• 21:55
  when they were diversifying their body,
• 21:57
  they diversified the voting numbers,
• 21:59
  and then they created like a workforce pipeline
• 22:02
  with the intention of helping to diversify the industry.
• 22:06
  And one of the ways that they did that
• 22:07
  were they took a ton of the interns
• 22:10
  who were interning at different companies
• 22:12
  all around the industry,
• 22:14
  and while they were interning at those respective companies,
• 22:17
  they were then meeting every week.
• 22:19
  Yeah, a few times a week for eight weeks
• 22:22
  at the Academy's building,
• 22:24
  and that was a way of speeding up the networking process
• 22:28
  of different folks in the industry.
• 22:30
  And I'd say that like,
• 22:32
  I don't know how, I mean,
• 22:33
  I don't know how easy it is to get into the program,
• 22:35
  they kind of put me into the program,
• 22:37
  and I was like, okay, cool,
• 22:39
  because it was like, when I was doing it,
• 22:41
  it was like the second,
• 22:42
  the third year that they were doing it,
• 22:44
  it was a really good program
• 22:45
  'cause they fed us every time, what,
• 22:47
  which was great.
• 22:48
  (laughing)
• 22:49
  - Love it.
• 22:50
  - Yeah, 'cause you were leaving like one internship
• 22:52
  at six, going to traffic,
• 22:53
  and you get there and you're starving,
• 22:55
  and we were like, oh, thank God.
• 22:56
  (laughing)
• 22:57
  I know it was a really good program.
• 23:00
  It goes on.
• 23:01
  You got to like,
• 23:03
  they got to show you different parts of the business,
• 23:06
  different folks on the business
• 23:07
  will come and lecture to you.
• 23:08
  So like, you know, those are guys from Disky Day Accounting,
• 23:11
  and you like,
• 23:12
  open up movie magic budgeting and stuff.
• 23:14
  This is how it was put.
• 23:15
  You got, so it was like really hands on,
• 23:19
  and also the relationships that you build
• 23:21
  with that program.
• 23:23
  They're really great.
• 23:23
  And the other thing too is that because
• 23:25
  there's a new class of a character in gold interns every year,
• 23:29
  it's a very easy way for someone
• 23:31
  like I was class at turn like day.
• 23:33
  I could reach out to someone from 18 class
• 23:35
  or one of the classes asked me,
• 23:36
  "Hey, we're both in California, go."
• 23:38
  And for the most part, they want to talk to you
• 23:40
  'cause it kind of like, you're similar folks.
• 23:42
  So it was like,
• 23:45
  it's an underrated, but very ingenious thing
• 23:47
  that we had in the academy put together,
• 23:50
  and it was all managed by the sky.
• 23:52
  I kept on only saying,
• 23:53
  "You said a very sweet white man named Randy."
• 23:55
  And he was really curious about it.
• 23:57
  He gets a great emotional talking about it.
• 23:59
  I haven't seen what he does.
• 24:01
  'Cause it's a really good program.
• 24:03
  - That's amazing.
• 24:04
  Did you ever get to go to the Academy Awards?
• 24:06
  - Not yet.
• 24:07
  Some of the people who have been in the program,
• 24:09
  they've gotten to hand out auskars and things like that
• 24:11
  'cause did you get opportunities to do that
• 24:13
  with the program?
• 24:15
  You have not got yet constantly counted with.
• 24:17
  It's on bucket list.
• 24:18
  I guess I gotta get not.
• 24:19
  - I'm done.
• 24:20
  - Yeah.
• 24:21
  - Awesome.
• 24:22
  We are gonna take a quick break,
• 24:24
  and then we wanna dive in with you about this James Bond essay
• 24:27
  that you're working on.
• 24:27
  - Oh yes.
• 24:28
  - So, yeah, we will do that right after the break.
• 24:31
  (dramatic music)
• 24:34
  And we are back at the Pop Culture Junkie podcast
• 24:38
  with our special guest, Daniel D. Boulay.
• 24:41
  You are currently writing a essay about James Bond
• 24:45
  for the Splice.
• 24:47
  Tell us about that as much as you can.
• 24:50
  - Well, this very thing is, so like,
• 24:53
  I've been writing for him,
• 24:55
  I guess it's like writing for the editor,
• 24:56
  a man by name, but Jimmy,
• 24:58
  of the Splice, which is like a UK based,
• 25:00
  but we use publications.
• 25:04
  And so I wrote a review for him of a leader
• 25:07
  on Jeekel's album.
• 25:09
  He really liked that.
• 25:10
  And with leader on you,
• 25:13
  this POT, he liked it too, 'cause I really loved it.
• 25:15
  So then, and my view of it is very pretentious.
• 25:18
  So I'm, I hope she's still using it.
• 25:21
  (laughing)
• 25:22
  So then, I mean, she made it easy with the cure.
• 25:25
  But like, after I did that,
• 25:28
  he was like, "Oh, you should do one on James Bond."
• 25:31
  Because he had seen something I written about,
• 25:34
  spy movies that aren't Mike James Bond.
• 25:38
  And the funny thing is that I was saying,
• 25:40
  it's like he picked up on an argument
• 25:41
  that we wasn't making.
• 25:43
  So then, like, 'cause he was like,
• 25:46
  "Oh, you're comparing spy fiction to like high literature."
• 25:49
  But I really wasn't comparing James Bond to Highwood,
• 25:51
  so I was comparing it like,
• 25:53
  and there's spy movies, "Ti-Low-Witcher."
• 25:56
  And I was, at the time, saying that James Bond
• 25:58
  is low literature.
• 26:00
  It's a joke.
• 26:02
  And so, I wrote a draft of it
• 26:04
  that more reflected what I think is James Bond.
• 26:07
  So now, I have to send,
• 26:08
  I have to still finish this draft,
• 26:10
  'cause they have to finish,
• 26:11
  I have to finish doing the version
• 26:12
  that he wants to read.
• 26:13
  'Cause he was like, "I don't want my article,
• 26:16
  "my public fiction to be so political."
• 26:19
  But in my view of James Bond--
• 26:20
  - Well, shit.
• 26:21
  Yeah, share it on the pop culture drug.
• 26:23
  - Yeah, that's it.
• 26:24
  We love politics here.
• 26:25
  - We love politics here.
• 26:26
  - We love politics here.
• 26:26
  - I know, he's, so like, in my,
• 26:29
  and that's what I would say.
• 26:29
  So I was like, in my view of James Bond,
• 26:31
  he's like, proper gambler.
• 26:32
  He's political pro gambler.
• 26:34
  - Okay.
• 26:34
  - Yeah.
• 26:35
  - 'Cause there's a few things about the history of James Bond.
• 26:38
  One is, so he and funny, he was a spy,
• 26:41
  that he was a journalist.
• 26:43
  He wasn't better than Turkey at one point.
• 26:46
  So sometimes, and one of the things that he does
• 26:48
  in some of his novels is he'll,
• 26:50
  he'll like, regurgitate political talking points
• 26:53
  that he knows are wrong.
• 26:55
  So like, in, from Russia with love,
• 26:59
  in the novel itself,
• 27:01
  James Bond says something casually
• 27:03
  about like how the communist
• 27:04
  caused all these riots in Turkey.
• 27:07
  But we know that that's not what happened.
• 27:10
  That's necessary.
• 27:11
  So it's like, the one thing that influenced me is,
• 27:14
  it's like, he is a, he is a colonizer.
• 27:16
  Like that was his job.
• 27:17
  Like he was a British spy.
• 27:19
  So there's like, yeah.
• 27:20
  It's like, it's not even like,
• 27:22
  all like putting a,
• 27:23
  a U from this and one putting like a negative bias there.
• 27:26
  Like, that's what his job was.
• 27:27
  So there's that.
• 27:28
  The other thing is, is that he was a journalist.
• 27:30
  So he knew how to convey these ideas
• 27:33
  to like the public,
• 27:35
  in a very entertaining way.
• 27:39
  But he sort of, I think he's sort of like a frog
• 27:42
  because he was educated at some of the world's
• 27:46
  best universities.
• 27:47
  I appreciate his even educated.
• 27:48
  So for those who don't know,
• 27:51
  like if you're, if you're a British in college school,
• 27:53
  even there are certain schools,
• 27:55
  a kind of reinforced class.
• 27:57
  So if he was going to them,
• 27:58
  he was learning the reclassic to all these things.
• 28:01
  But then when he came down to writing
• 28:03
  the James Bond novels,
• 28:06
  the James Bond novels are really for an audience.
• 28:09
  So if we were,
• 28:10
  if we were to contemporaries them,
• 28:12
  they would be Brexit voters.
• 28:14
  And like, none of those are cool that,
• 28:17
  in my research,
• 28:18
  at Christopher Hitch was right about James Bond once.
• 28:20
  He was like,
• 28:21
  James Bond just expresses massive global penis envy.
• 28:25
  He's like, that's what James Bond is.
• 28:27
  It's like, you have the British empire is basically irrelevant.
• 28:34
  And so he's invented this propaganda figure
• 28:37
  of this guy going around the world.
• 28:40
  He's the most important person in every room,
• 28:42
  all the little one hand,
• 28:44
  every man lost a B.M.
• 28:46
  And it's just like, it's all BS.
• 28:49
  And the irony of all this is,
• 28:52
  all of this is made with the idea of kind of
• 28:54
  undermining America's glory and influence in the world.
• 28:58
  So it's like, that's what James Bond is really kind of
• 29:01
  speaking towards.
• 29:02
  So now he's owned by Amazon.
• 29:03
  That's like the most American thing you can have.
• 29:06
  Yeah, it's a question.
• 29:07
  Kind of ironic there.
• 29:09
  When they make the next movies,
• 29:10
  do you think they're going to make it more sympathetic
• 29:13
  to American leanings?
• 29:16
  Well, what I would argue is that
• 29:19
  there's been this process between the novels
• 29:23
  and the movies where now the movies are
• 29:27
  district in the books in a lot of ways.
• 29:29
  So because as James Bond is more of business
• 29:32
  than anything else.
• 29:33
  So there's a time for us to make
• 29:35
  Roberto Echo.
• 29:37
  I think it's made.
• 29:38
  So if he kind of said that James Bond is less of a character
• 29:40
  and we'll just say, "How are we going?"
• 29:42
  And what he says is,
• 29:43
  James Bond is a shoes of oppositions.
• 29:45
  There's Bond versus Emmy, which is his boss.
• 29:48
  There's Bond versus the villain.
• 29:50
  There's the idea of duty versus comfort,
• 29:54
  service versus luxury.
• 29:56
  And he's like, "That's it."
• 29:57
  He's like, "Nobody watches a James Bond movie
• 30:00
  expecting a surprise.
• 30:02
  They kind of watch it like they're watching
• 30:03
  a basketball movie where the score is besides the point.
• 30:07
  There's been during watching the sport of this set."
• 30:10
  And so there's that aspect to James Bond.
• 30:15
  And one of the things that Roberto Echo says is,
• 30:18
  "Any time you can identify something without its creator,
• 30:22
  that's when something becomes an algorithm,
• 30:23
  that's when it becomes an asset."
• 30:25
  So after you're in for like, "Dies,
• 30:29
  we're able to kind of recreate this James Bond experience
• 30:32
  without, 'cause it's really like a hollow creation
• 30:37
  that he created."
• 30:39
  'Cause one of the things that happens is,
• 30:41
  so if in the novel,
• 30:42
  she's writing these books for essentially a racist
• 30:44
  and sexist misogynistic on audience.
• 30:47
  - Yeah.
• 30:48
  - And I think also in my view of James Bond,
• 30:51
  you can't really separate the misogyny
• 30:53
  from the colonizing.
• 30:54
  I think they go hand-to-hand.
• 30:56
  - Yeah, 100%.
• 30:58
  - Like, 'cause he's literally just going around the world
• 31:00
  finding it's eye-convenated to look.
• 31:01
  And so it's like a heart to separate it.
• 31:04
  Like even if you wanted to,
• 31:05
  like it's kind of like,
• 31:06
  I have to turn my brain off to the unsupervised it.
• 31:10
  - I totally agree.
• 31:10
  I'll watch James Bond films.
• 31:12
  I've seen all of the Daniel Craig films,
• 31:15
  a few of the Pierce Bros, and then ones.
• 31:17
  You know, I'm a millennial too.
• 31:19
  - Yeah.
• 31:20
  - And it's so glaring that he,
• 31:23
  you know, the wealth and the status is very important.
• 31:27
  He's always a well-dressed, glamorous white man,
• 31:32
  who like you said,
• 31:32
  everyone in the room wants to be.
• 31:34
  And that he just uses and disposes women so quickly.
• 31:38
  Like, I was laughing at my husband and like,
• 31:42
  you know, no one's life is shorter than that
• 31:45
  of someone James Bond has sex with.
• 31:47
  Like, he sleeps with you.
• 31:49
  You are gonna die in the next 15 minutes.
• 31:52
  Or you'll die by the end of the movie
• 31:54
  to set forth his emotional journey for the next film.
• 31:58
  - 100%.
• 31:59
  And there's like, there's this interesting thing
• 32:01
  with these movies.
• 32:02
  So like, Daniel Craig's credit of all the actors
• 32:06
  who played James Bond, he seems to be the one
• 32:08
  who had the hardest time actually being James Bond.
• 32:13
  Like, from the way he talks about it,
• 32:14
  I'm sure like being being $100 million really helps.
• 32:17
  (laughing)
• 32:19
  And like, I'm sure that's why he kept doing it.
• 32:21
  The way he would talk about,
• 32:22
  it's so funny, like when you pay people
• 32:24
  a lot of money, sometimes you get your bills,
• 32:26
  just how much they don't wanna do this thing.
• 32:29
  - Yeah.
• 32:29
  - Like if you, like if there's an interview
• 32:31
  that Charlie Rose gave with that George Lucas
• 32:33
  gave of Charlie Rose, I think so as far as $4 billion.
• 32:37
  And I don't know if I've seen a more unhappy rich person.
• 32:40
  He's just like, like, miserable.
• 32:43
  - To see him.
• 32:43
  - And like, the same thing with Daniel Craig,
• 32:45
  when he talks about James Bond, he'll be like,
• 32:47
  I tried to make it more funny.
• 32:49
  He's like, I don't know, I tried to make it this.
• 32:52
  He gives these interviews,
• 32:53
  like I tried to do this.
• 32:55
  You could tell he's really uncomfortable
• 32:57
  with the whole thing.
• 32:59
  - Yeah.
• 33:00
  - Because you have this kind of about like the Americanism
• 33:02
  of it all.
• 33:03
  So it's like, they have Americanized James Bond
• 33:06
  in the sense that like, we stripped away all the things
• 33:10
  that made the Brexit Grover kind of into James Bond
• 33:13
  to begin with.
• 33:14
  So then now what you're really left with
• 33:16
  is just this idea of like a guy who likes good service,
• 33:20
  luxury service.
• 33:21
  And like, and then he's willing to do anything for the empire.
• 33:25
  So it's kind of, we've, we've really stripped James Bond
• 33:28
  of what he met because, and I thought about the space
• 33:31
  in the room, like when you have people
• 33:32
  having conversations like, why can't a woman be James Bond?
• 33:35
  Why can't a minority be James Bond?
• 33:38
  That's how deep the brainwashing goes
• 33:40
  because if you're asking yourself,
• 33:43
  like why can we diversify the propaganda
• 33:46
  that we're receiving?
• 33:47
  Then it's like, the propaganda is,
• 33:50
  it's really working.
• 33:51
  There's like a, a Jew walking around,
• 33:54
  I will use this to be honest,
• 33:55
  and it was crazy.
• 33:56
  But it's like, you're like a Jew walking around,
• 33:58
  like not seeing Jeremy and then saying like,
• 34:01
  why can't more black people be on the posters?
• 34:04
  Why can't we?
• 34:05
  So true, Raleigh.
• 34:06
  It's like, the idea is so ridiculous.
• 34:08
  They're like, you really caught into this propaganda.
• 34:10
  Yeah.
• 34:11
  Why can't we diversify this product
• 34:13
  that is literally rooted in racism and misogyny
• 34:16
  and classism?
• 34:18
  They'd be really cool if we could get a black woman in here.
• 34:21
  Right.
• 34:22
  Right.
• 34:23
  It's like, you know, it's like, what are we asking?
• 34:25
  Like, why would we want this?
• 34:28
  And so, and one of the things I also think
• 34:30
  that's weird about James Bond is he's different
• 34:31
  from other franchise,
• 34:32
  and it's because I think James Bond is true,
• 34:35
  like an heirloom.
• 34:36
  Like for instance, my dad introduced me to James Bond.
• 34:39
  And I think I have some vague idea
• 34:42
  that one day I'll introduce my own son, James Bond.
• 34:45
  Which is like, why?
• 34:46
  I don't care.
• 34:47
  But it's a man's man.
• 34:48
  Yeah, right.
• 34:49
  It's almost like you're passing some torch
• 34:51
  of like masculine heritins, introducing your kid
• 34:55
  to like certain things you grew up with.
• 34:57
  And then do this with certain, like they unconsciously do this.
• 35:01
  But I think James Bond is a really good example of that
• 35:03
  because I don't think other actual franchisees
• 35:05
  are really marketed that way.
• 35:07
  Like, I don't necessarily think my dad,
• 35:11
  like my dad may have shown you the mission
• 35:13
  and possible TV series because he's like,
• 35:16
  oh, I grew up watching these.
• 35:18
  But I feel like with James Bond because James Bond is them,
• 35:21
  he's like recast like the Pope every so often.
• 35:24
  It's kind of like this, like this tradition,
• 35:27
  like you have it James Bond, I have my James Bond.
• 35:30
  We have this together.
• 35:31
  It's like this weird thing that they've done.
• 35:34
  And it's so real because it's like in 2012,
• 35:37
  when the Olympics were in London,
• 35:38
  they had like a whole thing with Queen
• 35:40
  and Dan O'Kraight as James Bond.
• 35:42
  We're at the Olympic Games together in front of the world.
• 35:45
  Talk about political propaganda right there.
• 35:49
  Doing anything for the great empire of England.
• 35:53
  And the fact that like those two symbols were put together
• 35:55
  for the world like that, it means that, you know,
• 36:00
  it implies I don't want to make too much of a meaning out of it.
• 36:02
  But I'm like, these two symbols are almost
• 36:05
  of equal importance to this country
• 36:07
  because they're both just symbols that are fictional.
• 36:11
  Like the Queen and Dan O'Kraight have a real tower,
• 36:13
  but she means a lot to these people.
• 36:15
  Yeah.
• 36:16
  To the point that they're like, well, we're both,
• 36:17
  if you ask them to get those, I'm not going to keep it.
• 36:19
  Yeah.
• 36:20
  And I'm like, James Bond kind of,
• 36:22
  if he shows that same role,
• 36:24
  and it's just kind of as a, I'm a son.
• 36:26
  So, no.
• 36:27
  Yeah.
• 36:28
  Well, and it's interesting because James Bond
• 36:30
  has kind of started it in the 1960s as this propaganda
• 36:34
  around like capitalism versus communism.
• 36:37
  And over time--
• 36:38
  You mean the next of that, yeah.
• 36:39
  --throw up the years.
• 36:40
  Yeah, it's really moved through time based
• 36:42
  on these economic anxieties, right?
• 36:45
  And then now, in the later movies in the Daniel Krag movies,
• 36:49
  it's like data capitalism, like technological oligarchies
• 36:53
  and all of these things.
• 36:54
  And it's not become communism versus capitalism.
• 36:58
  It's like good capitalism versus bad capitalism.
• 37:01
  Bad capitalism.
• 37:02
  Bad capitalism.
• 37:02
  Bad capitalism.
• 37:03
  And the Western state, like a James Bond control,
• 37:07
  the capitalism is the good one.
• 37:09
  But it's not really asking itself, is there any good form
• 37:15
  of that?
• 37:16
  And what does that really look like when this man is incredibly
• 37:19
  rich and he's funded by a state organization--
• 37:22
  You literally come all this money.
• 37:24
  Like, he's come all full circle around.
• 37:26
  And it's like, wait, this man is rich from a government?
• 37:29
  Are we back to communism?
• 37:30
  Yeah.
• 37:31
  It's true.
• 37:33
  And the whole logic, what makes a James Bond villain
• 37:37
  is usually there are associated with communists.
• 37:40
  They're a feminine/honal sexual.
• 37:44
  Or they have some type of visual, physical deformity.
• 37:49
  So they're disabled.
• 37:51
  So it's like, the best--
• 37:55
  I think the best thing about villain is
• 37:56
  our real bar down in Skyfall.
• 37:59
  And he basically plays James Bond as a gay man.
• 38:02
  I'd like to please you that character as a gay man.
• 38:05
  With a physical deformity.
• 38:07
  With a physical deformity, with his mouth and everything.
• 38:10
  And then the cool thing about that movie--
• 38:13
  and this is the thing about these movies--
• 38:16
  the people making them know that the text is what our say it is.
• 38:21
  Because then what the writers are doing,
• 38:23
  they're trying to push the boundaries.
• 38:24
  Because John Logan is a gay man from what I understand.
• 38:28
  The guy who wrote the script for Skyfall, if he's not,
• 38:30
  I apologize, but I appreciate it.
• 38:32
  And one of the things that he wrote in that version
• 38:36
  of the character is--
• 38:38
  so Silvers are in S.D.A. because he flustered Bond.
• 38:40
  And he's like, we're up and he was so gone.
• 38:42
  And then Daniel Craig counts as like, what makes you think
• 38:45
  this is my first time?
• 38:46
  And so--
• 38:47
  [LAUGHS]
• 38:48
  And by him saying that, they're basically saying,
• 38:53
  OK, we're going to remove this expectation
• 38:55
  you guys have of James Bond.
• 38:56
  Like, we're removing that, right?
• 38:58
  Because that's how he influnds version of James Bond.
• 39:00
  Yeah.
• 39:01
  And by doing that, too, because Silvers
• 39:03
  is supposed to be a mirror of Bond in that movie, because even--
• 39:07
  he like brings to T.C.A.L.S. and Mother, right?
• 39:10
  So it's supposed to be like these weird sibling
• 39:12
  rivalry.
• 39:12
  He took a different path, but started at the same beginning.
• 39:16
  Yeah.
• 39:16
  Right.
• 39:16
  So these writers are trying to like,
• 39:19
  push the boundaries of what they can get away with in this text.
• 39:22
  And it happens a little bit every time.
• 39:25
  But I think what happens is one more you realize it, like,
• 39:29
  well, then why am I participating in this?
• 39:32
  You know, it's like once the point, it's not like Shakespeare.
• 39:36
  It's like, there's a reason to kind of keep participating
• 39:39
  when they keep changing the updating Shakespeare.
• 39:41
  I don't necessarily know if there is as profound a reason
• 39:45
  for us to keep participating in James Bond.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:49
  But we keep doing it.
• 39:51
  I know.
• 39:51
  And when they--
• 39:52
  I remember that controversy when Daniel Craig's bond quits.
• 39:57
  And they give the 007 number to a black woman.
• 40:00
  Yes.
• 40:01
  And oh gosh, the headlines were 007.
• 40:05
  It's a black woman now, right?
• 40:06
  And just the uproar that caused.
• 40:09
  Right.
• 40:10
  Yeah.
• 40:11
  And you watch the movie and it's like she got the code number.
• 40:13
  Yeah.
• 40:14
  That was underrated.
• 40:15
  That was pretty good.
• 40:16
  Because I think--
• 40:17
  Yeah.
• 40:18
  That's right.
• 40:19
  I like it.
• 40:20
  That's the hard part about this.
• 40:22
  It pulls us in.
• 40:23
  Yeah.
• 40:24
  I would say that the thing is, is the writing of--
• 40:28
  like Ian Flunny's not the world's best writer.
• 40:31
  And even his wife said that, she would make fun of this business.
• 40:36
  She loved being rich, but she would make fun of these clothes.
• 40:39
  She would be like--
• 40:40
  like she would make fun of the fact that the characters
• 40:43
  named Monty Canny and Pussy Gollar--
• 40:45
  she thought this was a bad tarot.
• 40:47
  Like her and then the near friends, their high society
• 40:50
  friends, they were like, this guy is like right
• 40:52
  to low grow literature.
• 40:53
  And he only taught the influnny.
• 40:56
  He would say, I don't consider James Bond to be like little
• 40:59
  Jill of the cap or L. So he kind of knew
• 41:01
  he was like making this product.
• 41:03
  And it's so-- he's just like speaking so much money.
• 41:06
  But I think one of the things that the movies have done
• 41:10
  is the movies have really elevated this character.
• 41:13
  Because in addition to making all these changes,
• 41:15
  where the massager is racism, massager is wrong for me.
• 41:19
  The other thing that they've done is they've massaged
• 41:22
  the classes of James Bond.
• 41:24
  Because James Bond is described to be a kind of eaten,
• 41:28
  educated commander or a commander bond.
• 41:31
  That's who he's supposed to be.
• 41:33
  But when you cast Sean Connery as James Bond,
• 41:36
  you're casting a working class colonized subject
• 41:40
  of the British Empire, which immediately
• 41:42
  changes the nature of that character.
• 41:45
  Because it's like you're selling an image of the rich
• 41:47
  to the world that isn't real because he is a working class man.
• 41:51
  So it's like a kind of class, transmutation is occurring.
• 41:54
  But then they kept doing that.
• 41:56
  Like when they cast Roger Moore, I'm
• 41:59
  pretty sure Roger and Moore and Timothy Dalton,
• 42:01
  they're like, well, sure, something of that nature.
• 42:04
  They are people who live on the margins of the British Empire.
• 42:08
  - British society. - Yeah.
• 42:10
  And the funny thing is that Ian's lonely
• 42:11
  because he's such a capitalist.
• 42:13
  When he saw that people love Sean Connery,
• 42:15
  he just kind of evolved the character
• 42:16
  through a time match with their scene and the movies.
• 42:19
  - Interesting.
• 42:20
  - So so many things happen.
• 42:21
  So by the time we're getting James Bond now,
• 42:24
  which I think is our cool thing with myths and geoboacidas
• 42:27
  with the Odyssey, right?
• 42:28
  And all adaptation of us,
• 42:30
  and after a while, people aren't just adapting the text.
• 42:33
  They're like adapting their interpretations of it.
• 42:36
  And then people's interpretations of it,
• 42:39
  all the conversations had around it.
• 42:41
  - Yeah, well, who scored best at the box office?
• 42:43
  Who is everyone's favorite poll and their favorite bond?
• 42:47
  - Yeah. - Yeah.
• 42:48
  - So the deal.
• 42:48
  We get, they've like, it's hard to resist
• 42:51
  'cause that the crowd for what they do is they hire great artists
• 42:54
  to kind of bring this to life.
• 42:56
  And so it's like James Bond,
• 42:58
  it has some of the best cinematic sequences you will see in film.
• 43:02
  Just 'cause they have a lot of money,
• 43:04
  but also the way they've drawn, at least at the last time.
• 43:07
  Who knows what I'm talking about, too.
• 43:08
  But the way that the broccoli family,
• 43:11
  the Wilson family, the East of these movies together,
• 43:14
  I remember one guy at LMU, finally enough.
• 43:17
  One of the people who produced the Bond films,
• 43:22
  their daughter went to LMU.
• 43:24
  And so like one of the theaters is named like
• 43:27
  the Barbarale of Rock Leads Theater,
• 43:28
  or something like that.
• 43:29
  But one of the Michael G. Wilson produced the Bond movie.
• 43:32
  So he came to our school to talk to us,
• 43:34
  and he explained how the company works.
• 43:36
  And he's like, well, we teach these people
• 43:38
  the production people.
• 43:39
  He said, we teach them on payroll all throughout the year.
• 43:42
  And they're designing things for us and things of that nature.
• 43:46
  So it's like, and you realize like,
• 43:48
  huh, that's how these movies are put together.
• 43:50
  You know, like, ever breathing, ever growing.
• 43:53
  Yeah.
• 43:54
  Like somebody already knows who the new Bond is.
• 43:56
  They just haven't told us yet.
• 43:57
  But they're well in that.
• 43:59
  It is.
• 44:00
  I wonder who this is.
• 44:01
  As of like next year, it'll be the longest stint
• 44:05
  without a new bond or like the longest pause
• 44:08
  if we make it past next year.
• 44:10
  So it'll be an interesting time to see,
• 44:14
  like, have we evolved past it, have like audiences?
• 44:18
  Or are we really looking into it?
• 44:21
  I mean, they have a lot of rumors.
• 44:22
  I was still hoping for an Idris Elba,
• 44:25
  but I don't think we're ever going to get it.
• 44:27
  I know.
• 44:28
  I thought it would have been amazing.
• 44:29
  No, no, no, no.
• 44:30
  I don't think we're ever going to get it.
• 44:31
  You know, what a bit of a reason.
• 44:32
  Yeah, at this point, at this point, you should say that.
• 44:34
  That would be sick.
• 44:35
  I bet it's going to be Aaron Taylor Johnson.
• 44:38
  He's young and British and handsome.
• 44:39
  I like to be able to shirt off.
• 44:41
  I don't like his wife, but I like him.
• 44:44
  Oh, that's hilarious.
• 44:47
  That's hilarious.
• 44:48
  She's a filmmaker.
• 44:49
  She's an excellent movie.
• 44:51
  Yeah, she's a filmmaker and a very controversial woman.
• 44:57
  I think she directed the first 50 shades of the gray, right?
• 45:01
  She did.
• 45:02
  She also did nowhere for us with Aaron Taylor Johnson
• 45:06
  when he was 17.
• 45:08
  Yes, when he was a small little baby, but Squirrel.
• 45:13
  I know.
• 45:14
  I think it'll be really.
• 45:16
  Yeah.
• 45:17
  It'll be interesting.
• 45:18
  Like you said, just you were Amazon does with it and has, you know, Daddy Bezos' claws
• 45:23
  in there.
• 45:24
  It'll be interesting.
• 45:25
  I mean, it's when they say it'll be the longest church because it's like, I guess,
• 45:30
  well, you used to be the longest church.
• 45:31
  Ironically, you know what I'm saying?
• 45:33
  Yeah.
• 45:34
  Yeah, there was like when the Berlin Wall came down, there was like the lot.
• 45:38
  That was the last longest church between the V's because they kind of had to figure
• 45:43
  out like, well, what is Bond supposed to be now if he's not kind of fight kind is a.
• 45:47
  Yeah.
• 45:48
  What's his answer?
• 45:49
  Yeah.
• 45:50
  And what they kind of did was, maybe I'm curious if they were, but in the James Bond movies,
• 45:55
  you kind of get a precursor to the one we talked about the War on Terror.
• 45:59
  So when we talk about the War on Terror and we talk about these kind of, these international,
• 46:06
  like what does Osama Belon, Osama Belon is this international,
• 46:13
  gay man who has access to always crazy resources and he's held bent on world domination threatening
• 46:19
  our western way of life, but he also exists outside of any government.
• 46:24
  So, you know, which which which is financial middleman is the bad guy.
• 46:32
  Yeah.
• 46:33
  Yeah.
• 46:34
  Financial terrorist.
• 46:35
  Yeah.
• 46:36
  And the book, he man that we can all unite against.
• 46:38
  Correct.
• 46:39
  And I don't have to be a country anymore.
• 46:49
  He could just be like, he's a super villain essentially.
• 46:52
  And so I feel like, yeah, I feel like there's definitely some type of closer relationship
• 46:55
  there than I'm dry.
• 46:56
  I feel like there's a lot of these are the, but it's interesting that like after the Cold War,
• 47:01
  these are the villains that James Bond is kind of going up against.
• 47:04
  And this is now how we talk about geopolitics.
• 47:05
  He's framing them all those in the, like, a language that we've experienced in movies.
• 47:09
  And with some person like, that's definitely conscious because he's like a team.
• 47:13
  Yeah.
• 47:14
  Yeah.
• 47:15
  And I mean, he's a jackass in an idiot.
• 47:17
  So he doesn't.
• 47:18
  Yeah.
• 47:19
  He knows movies.
• 47:20
  He's like, I read this in a, you know, I've told us in a movie once.
• 47:23
  That's where he draws his knowledge, quote, quote, from his, yeah, what he's seen in movies
• 47:30
  and what he sees like a cool dictator do or a cool sexy rich guy do.
• 47:35
  Yeah.
• 47:36
  Sure, it's just what he thinks of poor persons ideal in each person.
• 47:40
  Exactly.
• 47:41
  That's why everything spray paint and gold.
• 47:43
  Yes.
• 47:44
  Yes.
• 47:45
  It's like if you're a poor person, that you will understand this as well, but like real
• 47:48
  person, real rich person.
• 47:49
  So I don't know.
• 47:50
  Yeah.
• 47:51
  So you got that at home, deep, oh man.
• 47:53
  Yeah, exactly.
• 47:54
  So I mean, so that was the, that was kind of what I came up on with James Bond.
• 47:57
  And like at the end of it, I kind of liked him a lot less than intellectually like him
• 48:03
  a lot less.
• 48:04
  Yeah.
• 48:05
  Enjoy some of these movies.
• 48:06
  I don't think I ever, I don't think like that idea that I have like one day I'll introduce
• 48:12
  that on it.
• 48:13
  It'll be so cool.
• 48:14
  Kind of like when I was a kid, they sent this fight to you and marathon over all these
• 48:17
  days, all of all the James Bond movies.
• 48:19
  Yeah.
• 48:20
  I'm like, I don't think I'll ever do that.
• 48:22
  That's like the channel for men.
• 48:24
  Yeah.
• 48:25
  Yeah.
• 48:26
  That was the channel for men.
• 48:27
  And now it's time.
• 48:28
  Yeah.
• 48:29
  But my aunt show.
• 48:30
  Yeah.
• 48:31
  I remember being like marketed as like the channel for men.
• 48:32
  I was like, Oh, I guess I can't watch any of this.
• 48:35
  I don't know.
• 48:36
  I'm going to see.
• 48:37
  But it's something.
• 48:38
  Yeah.
• 48:39
  I'm going to fight.
• 48:40
  I remember like the end of the whole awards ceremony one time to honor fight club within
• 48:44
  the old red and negative reviews.
• 48:46
  I'll fight club at the awards and I get to be a man.
• 48:49
  As a man's will.
• 48:50
  Yeah.
• 48:51
  So if you were going to show a child some of your favorite movies someday before we close
• 48:58
  out this episode, well, what would some of the favorite movies be?
• 49:01
  Right.
• 49:02
  That's a good question.
• 49:04
  I haven't thought about that before.
• 49:09
  What I think I thought about it because I thought about this recently in terms of a lot of
• 49:13
  difficulties where we talk about it just with dating.
• 49:15
  Like, a lot of people do carry morals and like lessons of how they want their life to
• 49:21
  go from movies more than they realize.
• 49:23
  Yeah.
• 49:24
  Absolutely.
• 49:25
  Like, and like Chuck Austin, he has this quote at the end of this his, his, his, the
• 49:31
  book that has a lot of essays called eating the dinosaur and, and it's called that because
• 49:37
  he's like the only good use for time machines to go back in time to eat a dancer.
• 49:42
  Just for you.
• 49:44
  But he says something where he says he says like a lot of times the things that we want, we
• 49:50
  don't really want them.
• 49:53
  We say we want them because we think that if we tell people we want these things, we
• 49:58
  think it will impress them.
• 50:01
  And like sometimes when you have the family who are talented, you're not a chief of thing,
• 50:05
  that person actually doesn't want to be around joining one.
• 50:08
  But what they do want to get around is a person who seems to want things.
• 50:12
  And I'm like, how that's very interesting.
• 50:14
  And so then a lot of like what you are told to walk just comes from movies and TV shows.
• 50:18
  It would be like even, even down to like, I want a man who can do this from you.
• 50:22
  Like, I want to want to want to do this like this.
• 50:23
  It's like, well, this is just, you saw this on TV, which is so constructed.
• 50:27
  And so you can like spend a little bit of your whole life.
• 50:29
  Married with children.
• 50:30
  Yeah.
• 50:31
  I don't want that.
• 50:32
  Or friends.
• 50:33
  Or friends.
• 50:34
  Like you'll say, like, I should be living in a apartment like friends.
• 50:37
  And like, well, this is an unreality for all of us.
• 50:41
  No one lives in a department.
• 50:42
  Yeah.
• 50:43
  Right.
• 50:44
  Exactly.
• 50:45
  So it's like, so lately I've been thinking about like, okay, well, we kind of take a lot of
• 50:47
  lessons from movies subconsciously and I really got away.
• 50:54
  So if I had to show a movie, I mean, you have to show movies, you should get kids movies
• 51:01
  because you're actually born baby.
• 51:02
  Yeah.
• 51:03
  Yeah.
• 51:04
  Probably bandy, probably bandy.
• 51:05
  There you go.
• 51:06
  Okay.
• 51:07
  There you go.
• 51:08
  Probably teacher 50.
• 51:09
  But there's like, but there's like, but there's one movie that I think like, okay, it'll probably
• 51:14
  park a person be a good person.
• 51:17
  Huh.
• 51:18
  There is a moon like this.
• 51:20
  Well, maybe she'll help you.
• 51:22
  I'll say she'll help you.
• 51:24
  Because my girlfriend, my dad is a minister.
• 51:28
  And so like, I used to always show him, I guess, gay propaganda to kind of get him to see
• 51:32
  the light.
• 51:33
  Yeah.
• 51:34
  I love that.
• 51:35
  The one that worked on him the most was sure a little.
• 51:38
  I know it was that because because Denzel plays a homophobic not movie.
• 51:44
  Okay.
• 51:45
  But his, his arc is that his arc is interesting.
• 51:47
  Like Denzel by the end of the movie is not necessarily like the most reformed person,
• 51:54
  but he's reformed enough to know that he's wrong.
• 51:56
  Yeah.
• 51:57
  So, to see the decency in humanity and other people.
• 52:01
  Yeah.
• 52:02
  Because in Tom Hanks, like, Tucker Stan Hanks plays for people in the Donald Philadelphia.
• 52:05
  He's about Tom Hanks as a guy who has HIV.
• 52:10
  And this is back in back in the 19th and 19th.
• 52:13
  We're having that was a little bit more stigmatized than now.
• 52:16
  And so he's in proper be fired.
• 52:18
  But he's like a brilliant, so try to remember like a brain attorney.
• 52:22
  And so our doctor, he said some women type of person.
• 52:25
  So then he hires essentially who's an ambulance chase Eric Denzel Washington.
• 52:30
  Because no one else wants to take on this case.
• 52:32
  And then the Washington sees this as an opportunity.
• 52:35
  It's really a homophobic.
• 52:36
  We still take to high any words for selfish reasons.
• 52:39
  And then by knowing to, by impingling him, he can realize that he's wrong.
• 52:43
  Yeah.
• 52:44
  So I think that's probably a movie you could probably show a kid and go walk away with some
• 52:48
  good lessons.
• 52:49
  That's a great choice.
• 52:51
  Damn.
• 52:52
  I like that.
• 52:53
  I like that.
• 52:54
  That's a good answer.
• 52:55
  No James Bond here.
• 52:56
  No, no, no.
• 52:57
  No, no, no.
• 52:58
  Not just true that.
• 53:01
  Well, thank you so much for joining us, Daniel.
• 53:04
  When does your essay come out and where can everyone read it once it does?
• 53:08
  It'll be on the splice.co.inq.
• 53:12
  And it should be in the next two months.
• 53:14
  It should be in the next month or so.
• 53:15
  I have to finish this.
• 53:16
  Hopefully we got your brain, brain move in there.
• 53:21
  Yeah, we're on top of it.
• 53:23
  Sometimes.
• 53:24
  Yeah, I mean, there's going to be a, there's going to be, I probably will release, I guess,
• 53:28
  on my website when I'm done a choral, choral director's cart version of it.
• 53:32
  Because I, I got like really indulgent.
• 53:34
  But some of the parts where I got indulgent, I'm like, they were really well written.
• 53:39
  Um, because it's like, I'm Caribbean.
• 53:41
  So like the first James Bond takes place in Jamaica.
• 53:45
  And then the other thing is that there's aspects where, you know, James Bond has taken
• 53:49
  place in Turkey, Ian Fleming was a Turkish spy.
• 53:54
  And then there's a story that I kind of leaked together, which is like the story that we
• 53:57
  Mark Anthony, broccoli, a patriotic turkey.
• 53:59
  She looked at the beach and said, like, I don't like it.
• 54:01
  And so then he trucked in sand to replace the sand there.
• 54:05
  But the funny thing about us, and that, that story is that they do do that in the Caribbean.
• 54:10
  So like in the Caribbean, there's like my mom grew up on an island called St Vincent.
• 54:15
  And because they have volcanoes, they have black sand.
• 54:17
  And when the tourists and when they come to the resorts, they're expecting to be just to
• 54:22
  look at how it looks like in James Bond looking.
• 54:24
  And so then they will truck in white sand from other islands to give them a solution.
• 54:29
  And so like I was going to always like segue.
• 54:31
  And I'm like, he's interesting.
• 54:33
  So that's not what I'm talking about.
• 54:35
  It's interesting.
• 54:36
  You mentioned your website.
• 54:37
  What is your website and what is your social media handle?
• 54:40
  Yes.
• 54:41
  So my website is my name.com.
• 54:43
  So it's danieldeboulay, that's d-e-b-o-u-l-a-y.com.
• 54:48
  And I'm on threads.
• 54:50
  My last name, d-e-b-o-u-l-a-y.mxf.
• 54:54
  And so the show knows out there.
• 54:57
  They'll know what mxf means.
• 54:58
  It's a very, very lucky niche.
• 55:01
  They're in term and she'll be.
• 55:03
  Love it.
• 55:04
  Olivia, where can the listeners find you online?
• 55:07
  And you can find me on Instagram @livimariez l-i-v-i-m-a-r-i-e-z.
• 55:16
  You can find me, Shauna Trinidad, on Instagram and threads @shaunatrinidad, s-h-a-u-n-a-t-r-i-n-i-d-a-d.
• 55:26
  And of course you can find us at our website, popculturejunkie.com.
• 55:30
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• 55:34
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• 55:37
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• 55:40
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• 55:47
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• 55:52
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• 56:02
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• 56:08
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• 56:16
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• 56:25
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• 56:29
  Network.
• 56:30
  So why don't you take me and I take me right now.
• 56:35
  I need it better, I need it better.
• 56:37
  Cause I need it better, I need it better.
• 56:44
  [Music]