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Somatic Therapy: What It Is and How It Releases Trauma From the Body · RECOVERable: Mental Health and Addiction Experts Answer Your Questions

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Somatic therapy addresses the connection between the mind and body, so it kind of seeks to bridge those two.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Therapist Simone Saunders joins us to explore somatic therapy and how tuning into your body can help you understand stress.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: When I first started somatic therapy for myself as a client, I kind of was like, ooh, this is really scary.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: This feels really uncomfortable.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the reason it feels uncomfortable is because it's a language that we haven't been taught.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com, the best place to find mental health and addiction treatment for anyone anywhere.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Find the right treatment for you or someone you love at recovery.com.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Recoverable.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Terry McGuire.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: From viral trends to promises of instant trauma release, somatic therapy is everywhere right now.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: But how much of what you see online is clinical reality?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: To help us separate social media hype from evidence-based practice, we're joined by trauma therapist and author, Simone Saunders.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Simone.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, I agree.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been doing it how long?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've been a therapist for eight to nine years now.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And did you start doing somatic therapy or did you pivot to it?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: When I started my career, I started using cognitive-based modalities.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then a few years in, I was working primarily with trauma.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Although, although a lot of my clients had a lot of insight and self-awareness, and we talked about coping tools and all of those things, they found a really hard time implementing those coping tools when they were triggered.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that there was just this missing piece.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I did a lot of my own research and I stumbled upon Janina Fisher and Pat Ogden's work in sensory motor psychotherapy.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of when I started to really look into somatic therapy as a modality and really adopt it.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to start with a myth or fact lightning round.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just going to ask you a couple questions so that we can both introduce the topic and address some of the misconceptions.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So someone myth or fact.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Somatic therapy is just deep breathing and relaxation techniques.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is definitely a lot more than deep breathing and relaxation techniques.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: It addresses your entire nervous system and really takes a look at the connection between the mind and body, not just trying to relax you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this next myth or fact directly hits the credibility barrier for what somatic therapy searchers are looking for.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And myth or fact, somatic therapy is not backed by science.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's a growing base of evidence.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact, you have to relive your trauma in detail for somatic therapy to work.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: That can be a common misconception, but we don't want to re-traumatize the person in the process of doing the therapy.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's a fear that they're going to have to go through that and it keeps some people from engaging with the therapy?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of people.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I often hear it from folks that the fear is what do I do if I have to tap into the emotions or sensations that I've maybe been avoiding for a really long time?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what if it overwhelms me and all of those different pieces?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: The therapist's role is to really pace the session so that the client doesn't get flooded or overwhelmed.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Somatic therapy requires physical touch between the therapist and the client.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Some therapists do, some therapists don't.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're going to, there's a discussion about it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's always consensual.
• 3:29
  unknown: Okay.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Somatic therapy completely replaces talk therapy.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: There is a portion of somatic therapy that is talk therapy.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So talking is a part of therapy.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Somatic therapy, I think folks often assume that you go into the session, there's no talking.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're maybe just moving your body, just breathing.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of talking in somatic therapy as well.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And how is it different than the kind of talking and what people think of as talk therapy?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Talk therapy typically, when people describe that is more focused on the narrative and your understanding and the meaning that you make about different experiences in your life.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas in somatic therapy, the talking portion is used to understand the story, but there is a lot of room left for your internal experience.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is interesting.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Trauma can keep your nervous system stuck in a physical fight, flight, or freeze response.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Fact.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Succinctly put, we'll go on.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you understand your trauma mentally, your body should get over it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, myth.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that happens for a lot of people, and it's often a coping tool where you can understand intellectually a lot of different things about your experiences, but that doesn't mean that your nervous system has moved on by any means.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or facts.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone advertising themselves as a somatic practitioner is a licensed mental health therapist.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Myth.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that if you're looking for a therapist, you just need to be sure that you're checking everybody's credentials because there are a lot of trainings that anybody can take.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of different somatic coaches, life coaches, um, wellness experts.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're wanting a therapist, it's important that you make sure that you just check the credentials.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Somatic techniques can help you detect stress before your mind consciously recognizes it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fact.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love how suspicio you are.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Myth or fact.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can use basic somatic grounding techniques on your own outside of a clinical setting.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Fact.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really helpful actually to practice those things outside of clinical settings.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So before we start with the internet questions, I want to start with a question you pose in your own book.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you feel that in your body?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to read from it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Many of us assume that once we understand why we feel the way we do, things will finally change.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: We can recognize the trigger, name the pattern, and explain the story, yet still feel unable to create tangible change in our day-to-day lives.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So where's the disconnect?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's missing?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what's missing?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: The missing portion is that connection between the mind and body.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you can intellectually understand something and understand maybe where it came from, your reactions, why you experienced that, the impact that it had on you.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: But unless you're able to tap into your felt sense, so the things that are going on in your body, so the sensations that you're experiencing, the emotions that you're experiencing, then it's really hard to make any meaningful change.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think some of the questions I would ask next come into this.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you explain somatic therapy in plain language to somebody who's never done it or maybe not even heard of it?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I usually just explain it by saying that somatic therapy addresses the connection between the mind and body.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of seeks to bridge those two.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it looks to address the experiences that you might have had, maybe hardships or trauma, by understanding both the meaning that you make about the situation, so the narrative, but also the narrative that your body creates.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens for you when you walk into a room full of people, for example, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're someone who's maybe leans a little bit more anxious, do you feel a drop in your stomach?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice heat rising in your body?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice your heartbeat quicken?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: It takes simple situations like walking into a room and also larger situations like the trauma or hardship that you've experienced in your life and helps you contextualize and really understand how you move through the world.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: What symptoms or conditions can somatic therapy treat?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Usually somatic therapy is used for experiences of trauma or hardship, nervous system regulation, emotional disconnection.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you sort of mentioned social anxiety in your example, uh anxiety in general, chronic stress and burnout, depression, any of those things?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: All of them.
• 7:44
  unknown: Excellent.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: For someone who has only done traditional talk therapy, what's important to understand in this mind-body connection that would make a difference in terms of being able to heal?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's uncomfortable.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know that when I first started somatic therapy for myself as a client, I kind of was like, ooh, this is really scary.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: This feels really uncomfortable.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the reason it feels uncomfortable is because it's a language that we haven't been taught, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Listening to our body is a language that we really haven't been taught anywhere often.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so really tapping into actually, how do I feel about this?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than intellectually, how I might feel.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do I actually feel even sitting here in this moment?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: What am I noticing?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: It is a sort of presence that sometimes can feel uncomfortable.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uncomfortable isn't bad.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: It is just means that it's new.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have we sort of been conditioned to ignore what we're feeling when you go into a situation, you said social anxiety, where, you know, when you're feeling nervous and all the things that are happening, do we tend to just push ourselves through the situation or do we say, oh, I'm my palms are sweaty or whatever it might be?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're conditioned to push ourselves through.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if we even think about things like it's celebrated, the people who sleep only a few hours and then they're back at work the next day, or they skip lunch, or, you know, they don't use the restroom all day because they're so hard at work, all of those different things are very simple and very normalized, but they're also ignoring the signals of our body.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think often the way that we're socialized is to ignore a lot of the signals in order to meet whatever demands of society or the people around us.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can tuning into our bodies help release and recover and heal from genuine traumas that we experienced?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: I often talk with clients about the fact that our nervous system sort of runs the show in the background.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so, regardless if we are consciously aware of it or not, that's happening.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we're more aware of how our nervous system feels, how we experience certain people, environments, then it allows us to eventually make more conscious choices.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So rather than that your nervous system in the background running the show feeling like you are either safe or unsafe depending on your experiences and environments, it allows us again to make those conscious choices.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Being able to, let's say, walk into a room and take up space, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe your experience when you were younger, for example, was that you weren't allowed to have a voice, you weren't allowed to take up space.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that shows up as you walk into a room, maybe you sort of curl into yourself, your posture is really hunched over, maybe you're feeling butterflies in your stomach, your heartbeat is quickening.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that means you don't talk a lot, you try and go to the corner of the room.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Allowing yourself to really understand how you experience that in your body and where those experiences come from allows you to decide how you want to move through the world.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when I hear this example of being very uncomfortable walking into a social setting, that seems like it's in a really different category than big T trauma.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can somatic therapy help with that as well?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think when we talk about big T trauma, I like to involve complex trauma into that conversation.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So complex trauma is chronic and repeated events.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we can think about something like childhood emotional neglect, which often I describe in my book as uh sort of death by a thousand cuts, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Which can be an isolated incident, maybe feels a little bit hurtful, harmful, but you can get over it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: But over and over and over again feels really impactful and often stays with you and impacts your nervous system in a meaningful way.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when we think about those things, I think that trauma can impact our everyday interactions.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Often I think a misconception about trauma when we think about it is that it has to be these large post-traumatic stress reactions when often trauma shows up and infiltrates sort of our everyday interactions.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the most common ways that that happens?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it can be in, if we're talking somatically, I think it can be in your posture.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it can be in the way that you speak and relate to other people.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Relationships are one of the largest impacts, I feel like, of trauma.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is typically the source of trauma and also the consequence of experiencing trauma, is that we have a lot of dysfunctional relationships.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does it really mean that the body remembers or the body holds trauma?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So when people talk about the body holding trauma, often what they're referring to is how our body expresses dysregulation.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Again, if we're using maybe emotional neglect in childhood as an example, and maybe I was always made to feel small.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was always made to feel like I didn't have a voice or my voice wasn't important, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I might notice that I have a lot of tension in my um traps or in my shoulders or in my jaw, because maybe I am tightening in situations where I am either expected to have a voice or I, you know, should.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so in those moments, your body remembers, okay, these are the experiences that you've had in childhood.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not actually allowed to have a voice.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're not actually allowed to take up space.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: So instead, what we'll do is tense.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so your nervous system gets activated, your stress responses get activated.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of what people mean when they talk about the body sort of holding trauma is how it's expressed in everyday life.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in that example, you feel safer being quiet andor sort of invisible.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is actually happening in the nervous system and the muscles when trauma is being stored?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: So when your nervous system gets activated, so your fight, flight, freeze, spawn response, your body experiences stress.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes in the muscles, your muscles might tighten and tense a lot.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So often we find that there is a lot of bracing that happens for people who've experienced a lot of trauma.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so in the system, again, you might notice that your neck, your traps are sore.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: You might notice a lot of jaw tension, you might notice tension in your legs, even in your stomach.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's a lot of different tension and bracing that goes on in the body.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Are a lot of gastrointestinal issues related to trauma?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Can be, absolutely.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there is a large connection often between uh chronic illness and experiences of trauma or hardship.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a study I also took a look at in my book, which was the ACES study.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so Nadine Burke Harris, she sort of made the link between experiencing ACEs and also experiencing adverse health outcomes later in life.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: ACES being adverse childhood experiences.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: We did do an episode on that if anybody wants to listen.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does somatic therapy release the trauma that's being stored in the body?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I come to you?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go to that first.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I come to a somatic therapist?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: How would I know that that's what I need to provide that missing piece?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Typically, I find that people come to somatic therapy after doing a lot of maybe cognitive-based therapy and feeling like they need something a little bit different.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: But the way that somatic therapy can help sort of release trauma, so to speak, is essentially allowing your nervous system to catch up to real time.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I talk about in my book how your nervous system sort of gets stuck in whatever phase that you experience the most trauma and hardship in your life.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so your nervous system doesn't necessarily just age with you.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if you experienced a lot of hardship and trauma, you know, in your childhood and it picked up a lot of these different coping mechanisms, just because you're now 40 years old doesn't mean that your nervous system is necessarily caught up.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of the work of somatic therapy is teaching your nervous system that, okay, the situations that may have been unsafe back then, maybe are safe now.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe the coping tools that were absolutely useful and necessary back then may not be as helpful right now.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of bridging that gap.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So what would that look like if someone experienced trauma as a child and now they're 40 and their nervous system has not aged over those years?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: What does a child's nervous system in an adult look like?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: In my book, I talk a little a lot about the window of tolerance.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the window of tolerance is a good visual representation to understand how your nervous system sort of functions.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So in the middle, we have your window of tolerance, which is where you can sort of think and feel at the same time.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you can go through the emotional highs and lows of every day without feeling too dysregulated.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the top of that window, we have hyper-arousal, which is kind of consistent with that fight or flight response.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a lot more emotional activation.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you might notice panic attacks, um, impulsivity, lots of anger, maybe substance use, all of those pieces.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: At the bottom of that chart, you'll notice hypoarousal, which is like your low emotional activation state.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's more consistent with the freeze and the fawn response.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you might notice lots of dissociation, maybe feeling lethargic, feeling frozen, feeling numb.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're looking at the window of tolerance in the nervous system, often when we've experienced a lot of trauma and especially chronic trauma, especially in childhood, we notice that we often oscillate between the either hyper-arousal or hypoarousal.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there might be very little time that we're actually in that window of tolerance.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So in adulthood, that could look like chronic irritability, that could look like impulsiveness, that could look like substance use, that could look like um lots of dissociative episodes, that could look like frozen-ness, uh, depression.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that the experiences that we have in adulthood don't necessarily always match what we expect trauma to look like.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was thinking.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: If I was experiencing those symptoms, I wouldn't think, oh, I'll bet this is stuff I dealt with 40 years ago and I'm carrying in my body.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get someone to that consciousness?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: How does it occur to someone to say, or would would a therapist before they come to you tell them that?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: They might.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think that you might be able to map out, I struggle a lot with anger or substance use or irritability or impulsiveness or whatever it might be.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that's because of X, Y, Z that happened in my childhood.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the missing portion of that is how do you know that those things are happening?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So when you are experiencing that anger, that irritability, like what's happening for you, how do you know that you're in that state, what led up to that state?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So often when I work with clients, a lot of that is really understanding their personal window of tolerance.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that there's a difference between understanding the concept of window of tolerance and understanding how that applies to like your own personal system.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're sort of coming out of your window of tolerance and you're entering that hyper-arousal zone, that more emotionally activated state, how do you know that's happening?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: What happens for you?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: And for a lot of people, they don't know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's just I'm either in my window or I'm here.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so the work is being able to slowly bridge how do we create that awareness to know when that's happening for you and what it feels like to be hyper-aroused or hypo-aroused and be able to trace that back to did this, does these experiences or these feelings feel familiar?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm thinking of somebody with physical symptoms probably going to a doctor, not realizing that emotional stress may be causing those symptoms.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there can be a non-medical cause for our physical symptoms.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: There is a story actually that I tell in my book about my own experience, which I thought I had hyperhydrosis for a long time.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so hyperhydrosis is essentially excessive sweating.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I experienced that from childhood and probably up until my early 20s.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time I was assuming, okay, I have hyperhydrosis, so I was gonna look into getting Botox for the that uh to treat it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, I was going to therapy for the stuff that I've experienced in my own life.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually I noticed that the more that I worked on being more aware of my nervous system and trying to become more regulated in my day-to-day life, the less that I started sweating.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it I didn't make the connection at all until many years later.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I noticed that, okay, this actually wasn't a medical issue for me at least.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And this came from a chronically activated nervous system.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for somebody watching who has symptoms that make them uncomfortable, I'll just say, and their medical tests all come back fine all the time, but they know something's wrong.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: What is your advice for them?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: My largest suggestion for anyone is curiosity.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And curiosity can be with a therapist, it can be with a medical provider, whoever sort of you choose.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I think curiosity is really important.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so it may not have any connection to your mental health or the experiences that you've had in your life.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: It may have some or it may have a lot.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think bringing it to the attention of the therapist that you're working with or the medical provider that you're working with is really important because it allows to have context for whatever you're experiencing.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I hope if someone is in that situation and they're watching this, that they realize there might be another route to relief.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So a major obstacle to trying somatic therapy is uncertainty.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: About what's actually involved in a session.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: There are a number of questions, including what is a session really like?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does a somatic therapist do, ask, notice, and what do they not do?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's have you walk us through what would a somatic therapy session involve.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: For me, when I am providing somatic therapy, sessions are not as maybe scary as they might seem.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll walk through, you know, what happened over the last little bit since the last time I saw the person.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: If we're already, you know, specifically working on something, we might go into that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: If not, I kind of use what's happened in the last couple of weeks to really give context to how their nervous system is doing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what I'm paying attention to is how are they sitting?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: What's happening for them?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Am I noticing any changes in their breath rate?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Am I noticing any changes in their posture?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Am I noticing fiting?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the I'm paying attention to their whole sort of body composition just to see what's happening.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And my clients know that I'll also bring awareness to that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I might stop them mid-story to just be curious about, oh, as you're talking about that, I'm noticing that like you're holding your throat.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: What's can we maybe just pause and pay attention?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what are you noticing here?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll spend some time there.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's something, sometimes it's absolutely nothing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that being able to pause and notice what's happening for them as they're sharing their experience, that's sort of where that processing lives.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You were describing a situation that would have they've already been seeing you, and this is what's happened in between sessions.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a really different process for someone coming for the first time?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: So in the beginning, I think it's really important to make sure that you're building that trust and not everybody is going to feel comfortable and safe in the beginning.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that safety piece is really, really important, especially in somatic therapy.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So in the first few sessions, I often explain the way that I work and explain the things that I'm looking at and noticing.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I also get their consent to point out the things that I'm noticing so that they're not feeling sort of like eerily watched.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea is that this is a collaborative relationship in which we're both trying to notice.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: And especially in those first few sessions, there is a lot of psychoeducation on the nervous system because I think it's really important for the client to also understand what's happening for them because that information can give them a lot of context and provide a lot of safety for their nervous system and sometimes take away the shame of how their experiences have made them feel or how their reactions to experiences have made them feel.
• 24:53
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• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Getting help for an addiction or mental health concern is one of the best decisions you will ever make.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: But once you make that decision, it can be tough to know what to do next.
• 25:06
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• 25:09
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• 25:15
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• 25:25
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• 25:32
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• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: How would understanding the reason I feel scared in this situation or uncomfortable in that situation or whatever else it might be?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: How does that understanding help you live your life differently?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: When we're able to connect our experiences back to different emotions or other different lived experiences, it allows us to decide whether or not we want to make that decision based off of those previous experiences or experiment with something new.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so experimentation is something I talk a lot about with clients.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I talk a lot about in my book.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: And experimenting, I use that language specifically because there is no good or bad, there is no pass or fail.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's simply information.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: If I know that I walk into a relationship and I typically am very avoidant and I don't like talking about my feelings, and maybe that's just how I am, and I can decide that's just how I am, and I don't want to do anything different.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can also experiment.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that experimentation looks like, what if I opened up a little bit to this person who maybe feels a little bit safe?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the experiment there allows us to understand, okay, how does your nervous system feel when we do this?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And is it getting closer to some of those goals of maybe, maybe my goal is I really want to have close relationships?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, this part of me, this avoidant part of me, has protected me for a really long time and has kept me safe from maybe scrutiny, has kept me safe from potential uh disappointment in relationships, but I also want to experience the closeness.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so that experimentation allows us to sort of slowly move closer to that goal.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: The word soft is coming to mind.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like a softer form of therapy than what some people experience in fear about other kinds, you know, like tell me all about your childhood, your parents, the traumas you experience.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you get the same results with somatic therapy that you can with other therapies that are more familiar?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Somatic therapy, I would say number one, is it's slow and it's not a fast therapy.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's information that I always give clients is that it's a slow therapy.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it also will feel frustrating and kind of annoying sometimes how slow it is, because again, it's you're allowing your nervous system to catch up to you.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: And as far as the softness of it, I think the softness maybe comes in in the sense of the slowness and the pacing.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea is we're calibrating based off of the nervous system, which ideally sort of every therapy does, but every therapy sort of works a little bit different.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: But somatic therapy specifically, we're calibrating based off of your nervous system.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you're going to be in a place where you have a large window of tolerance and you have large capacity.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Other seasons of life you have might have a really small capacity and a really small window of tolerance.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so depending on what season of life we're in, depending on what your nervous system has been through, that's sort of how we pace sessions.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the biggest misconceptions about somatic therapy are?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I hear the term woo-woo, and I think that people think that it is that or a different form of yoga or deep breathing, or that it isn't real therapy.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Often people think when and if they go to somatic therapy, they might be sitting in a room and you're just deep breathing, your eyes are closed, like we're touching, or whatever it might be.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not that.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, people practice very differently, but often there is a lot of talking, there's a lot of debriefing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: The somatic portion is often very internal for the client.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I very rarely involve any touch in my practice.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Some therapists might in theirs.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think the common misconception is that woo-woo, we're just going to be, you know, deep breathing together for an hour.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose we should define what the word somatic means.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Somatic, it means like it comes from soma, right?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: So body, right?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: So when we talk about somatic therapy, we're talking about body-based therapy.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way that I like to describe it is it's simply just a different entry point, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: So when we talk about cognitive-based therapies, for example, we're talking about the entry point through more of the like prefrontal cortex, so your thinking brain, how you make meaning of things, the narratives that you might have.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas with somatic therapy, the entry point is the brainstem.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're looking at a lot of the unconscious things that happen in your body.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: So your breath rate, your heart rate, your digestion, all of the things that happen unconsciously.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's just simply different entry points.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most common scenario for why someone comes to see a somatic therapist?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: What have they done before?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: What have they tried?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: What have they not tried?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: The most common clients I get are folks who are overintellectualizers.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so over-intellectualizers essentially is a coping mechanism where you are able to sort of coherently tell your story, tell about, you know, the things that you're experiencing, where they came from, why you might be reacting the way you do.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have all of the insight in the world, but it's really difficult to make any meaningful change.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that those clients typically uh seek somatic therapy very often.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I would also say trauma is also the biggest, the biggest factor too.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And are those two usually married?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So a client comes to you with trauma in their past and a complete understanding right here of what it was, when it was, how it was.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do with that?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get it unstuck, or what is the actual end goal?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: I really like to eventually after sort of, you know, the psychoeducation and the beginning stages of the relationship and whatnot, I really like to explore how that coping tool has kept them safe.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: People often describe coping tools as maladaptive or whatever, but I often look at coping tools as something that at some point in time was useful for you and at some point in time kept you safe.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to use the term overdeveloped coping tools.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And overintellectualizing is just one of those, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so how has that kept you safe?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: How has being disconnected from yourself kept you safe?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because it has in some capacity, right?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it allowed you to be have closer relationships with your caregivers.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it protected you from the scrutiny of other people.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it protected you from feeling super overwhelmed.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And being able to sort of break down those pieces and really also understand the relationship between the client and the client's body, I think that's also a really meaningful space to be in because not only are folks often disconnected to their body, but the relationship that they have with their body often can be a little bit fragmented.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the next step in that.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they come with their understanding, you get them to realize that it's body-based, and then what happens?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we work through it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so working through it looks like how has your relationship been with your body?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: How do you see your body?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is your body something that feels like it's betrayed you?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is your body something that you feel proud of?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Does it function in the way that you hope that it would function?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like you take care of it?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like you notice when things are going right or only when things are going wrong?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you are you able to notice the signs and signals that your body sends you?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not even from an emotional lens, but also do you feed yourself?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you meet your bathroom needs?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you meet your sleep needs?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it takes a look at the entire relationship with yourself.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so often when we're talking about our relationship to our body, we're talking about weight.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a part of this at all.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say it's not a part of it at all, but I would say it's a very small part of it, right?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: So someone who might be living in a larger body definitely might experience a lot more shame or scrutiny or um have experienced a lot more trauma related to how their body is perceived by others or perceived by themselves.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'll definitely take a look at that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say that weight is very small scale on in comparison to the all of what we look at.
• 34:09
  unknown: Okay.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're at that stage, we've come, you know, we're at like the fourth question and answer here.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: At the end, if there's an end, what would be different for me as a result of coming in as an overintellectualizer, which is the example we're using?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: How will I understand myself and my life and my relationship to my body differently after we have been working together?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest thing is choice, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: So trauma often takes away your ability to choose.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: It chooses for you.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So your nervous system decides what feels safe, what feels unsafe, sort of how you behave.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, we all have agency in some capacity, but there is a lot of our decision making that is automatic and automatic just based off of the things that we've experienced.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that automatic thinking and behaving is called procedural learning.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: So procedural learning is your body's um ability to execute um actions or behaviors without your conscious knowledge or awareness, right?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the example that I like to use is when you learn to tie your shoes, you, you know, of course, you have to learn, you do the bunny ears and whatnot.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: But after you learn, your body just, your fingers just know how to tie your shoes and you don't really think about it again.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so your body does the same thing with like your nervous system reactions, your reactions like in relationships, your facial expressions, tone of voice, all of those different things.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're able to actually really take a look at your procedural learning and think about, okay, what feels like it's useful in my life now, what feels like it's unuseful.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we come back to that point of choice of rather than my procedural learning just taking over and deciding for me.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have a choice here of, okay, I maybe have worked with my therapist.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know that when I'm about to be in hyperarousal, I'm gonna, I'm experiencing heat in my body.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm experiencing a quickness in my chest, I'm experiencing maybe a tightness in my chest.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And what I need right now is maybe I need to take a break from this conversation.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I can choose, either I can take a break from this conversation or I can choose to go forward and maybe that's gonna send me out of my window of tolerance.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: But the point here is the ability to choose.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the benefit of that?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it being more authentic?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just having options when you walk into that situation where you used to shrink because you were all the things you might have been?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now do you walk in and you're bigger than life, or do you just have the choice of being anything on that scale?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's about the choice of being because for a lot of people, parts of their identity is influenced by the hardest moments in their life.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when we are able to work through some of these things, it's not necessarily about now I'll be the biggest personality in the room or now I'll take up the most space.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's more about once I am able to process the trauma and the hardship that I've experienced, what is my personality after that?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Who do I want to become?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Who was I?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Who am I?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes it's I'm really shy because I was taught that I don't deserve to take up space.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And other times it's I'm just a shy person and that's just who I am.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And being able to differentiate those things allows us to have a lot more agency and a lot more empowerment too.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is there freedom in that or is it frightening?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Ultimately freedom.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think what can be frightening for folks is the idea that once you sort of strip away who you were told to be, who the world told you to be, who your trauma or your experiences told you to be, then who am I?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: That question mark can feel really frightening.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think that there is a lot of fun and excitement in being able to discover that and be able to discover, okay, what do you like?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do you not like?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And what are those things that are in not influenced by the world or other people or what you were taught that you should or shouldn't like, or how you should or shouldn't be?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's an exciting journey.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely can be scary, but I think it's ultimately really exciting.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Without violating HIPAA or anything, is there an example that you have of someone who came in, I'll say one way and then through this process discovered or decided on a different presentation of themselves?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: For a lot of folks, I see it's it often comes in the form of relationships and how they present themselves in relationships.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I have seen a lot of folks who have come in one way, maybe um avoidant, maybe very meek, and have come out and felt a lot more confident and strong and capable and independent and sure of themselves, which I think is a beautiful transformation to be able to witness.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we hear the term bottom-up versus top-down a lot when talking about somatic therapy.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do those terms mean?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: So top-down and bottom-up are referring to those entry points of uh therapy.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the top-down approaches work from your prefrontal cortex all the way down, and bottom-up works from your uh brainstem to your prefrontal cortex.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: So essentially it's just different entry points for where therapy typically starts.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: So for somatic modalities, for example, um, or things like EMDR, um accelerated resolution therapy, those are more bottom-up approaches.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they start from some of those unconscious sensations or processes in the body.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas maybe modalities like cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, acceptment, acceptance and commitment therapy, there's tons of different approaches.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Those maybe start from uh your prefrontal cortex and go down.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you said that somatic therapy can be a slow therapy.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: How many sessions does it typically take for a client to start to notice a shift in their nervous system?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really dependent on the person, but I would say sometimes six months, sometimes twelve months.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: I typically don't put a session count on it, but months, sometimes years.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a real commitment.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Time and money.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone does not have the funds to be in therapy for that long, what are some effective alternatives for them to explore?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's definitely challenging that there are so many barriers to accessing mental health care because oftentimes the, and I talk about this a little bit in my book, the most researched and evidence-based therapies are typically the most funded and folks have the most access to those.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so those are typically top-down approaches.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so bottom-up approaches typically don't get um very much, if any, funding for folks to be able to explore.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're someone who maybe doesn't have the resources, I would recommend starting to just be curious, right?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so the entry point that I start for a lot of clients is being curious about everyday things like your hunger, your thirst, your bathroom needs, your sleep.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice when you feel hungry, or are you waiting until you're dizzy and passing out?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice when you feel a little bit thirsty, or are you only noticing when you're absolutely parched?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice when you have to kind of go to the bathroom, or do you only notice when, okay, I gotta run?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice when you're tired, or do you only notice when you're absolutely exhausted?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: So paying attention slowly to those things can be a really great entry point.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: So can somatic therapy online be effective?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would say my favorite form is in-person because I think it is definitely, from my perspective, at least, a different dynamic because you can really feel the person in the room.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: But virtual therapy can definitely be effective.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are the risks or limitations of relying solely on viral social media somatic trends?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: There is no context for your nervous system.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the videos that talk about, okay, do this yoga pose and release all of your trauma or whatever it might be.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they're it's important to be careful with those different pieces because you don't want to end up in a situation where you end up flooding yourself, right?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where you end up overwhelming your nervous system because you have tried a technique that your nervous system maybe isn't ready for.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why the process of this is so slow, is because it allows your nervous system to slowly catch up.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if there is certain coping tools that you want to try, um, for example, like I there's, you know, um, I've seen videos of, you know, you putting your face in, you know, a bowl of iced water or taking cold showers or things like that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you want to try those things, absolutely and you know, incorporate them into your everyday life.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I would also just be mindful that a quick fix is like unlikely to happen with viral somatic techniques.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know the face in ice can can have a nice, powerful effect quickly, but it is not a long-term, you know, it's sort of for that acute situation, is my understanding.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you often have to actually remember that that's an option for you, right?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Which is part of the problem often is that when you're in the situations where you are really triggered, or maybe you're in hyperarousal, and maybe that could be an effective sort of coping strategy.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Often we don't remember those things because that prefrontal cortex is offline.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is it most effective to choose a single therapy, or can talk therapy and somatic therapy be used together?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Talk therapy and somatic therapy can be used together, and they're not separate necessarily.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: I find for not only myself, but a lot of people are quite integrative in the approaches that they use.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so for depending on what the client needs at the time, we may not employ any somatic techniques depending on what's happening.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or sometimes the session is heavily focused on somatics.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that it is totally fine to integrate different approaches.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody wants to learn more about somatic therapy, what do you recommend?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: I really love Janina Fisher and Pat Ogden's work.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: So they um have a book called Sensory Motor Psychotherapy.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love that book.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Embody Lab has a ton of different trainings as well.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: The Body Lab.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Embody Lab.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Embody Lab.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: E M B O D Y.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: If there's one takeaway from today's discussion about somatic therapy that you hope the people listening to this all leave with and understand, what is it?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that it's that curiosity about yourself is really important, but also that you are not a project to be fixed.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is something that I make sure to tell a lot of my clients is that this is lifelong work and lifelong work not in the sense of we're constantly fixing you, but lifelong work is in the sense that this is a relationship with your body and a relationship that you're gonna have forever.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And your body might need things from you sometimes, and you it might feel really irritating or annoying to like address those needs.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's other seasons where you're going to feel really connected to yourself and really great about your relationship with your body, and other times where you might feel really frustrated, but it is a journey and one that I think is important to take a look at and be curious about, go slowly and remember to also take breaks because again, you're not a project to be fixed.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that concept of not being broken and needing fixing.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I also find real hope in you saying, you know, at a certain stage, you know, you the example you used was a 40-year-old, you know, suddenly asking those questions.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do I like?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to do?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of people go through life without ever asking that and thinking that the way they are is just the way they are.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And at any age or stage of your life, you can choose to ask yourself those questions.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that it's there's ever a point in time where it's too late or change is not possible.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's very helpful.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Simone Saunders, thank you very much for your time.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we will continue talking on a different topic next week.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: So as you carry this deeper somatic awareness into your week, remember that our bodies store both individual and generational trauma.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Next episode will unpack that collective experience directly as we dive into the intersection of race and mental health.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Please join us.