Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Kim Deal

Transcript

Kim Deal · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Kim Deal is an indie rock icon. In the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: mid eighties, she joined The Pixies as the band's original
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: bassist and co vocalist. After the release of their debut album,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Come On Pilgrim in eighty seven, followed by the classics
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Surfarosa and Doolittle, Kim took a break from the Pixies
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to form her own band, The Breeders. With the help
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: of Kim's twin sister Kelly on lead guitar, The Breeders
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: released a couple of EPs and four studio albums, including
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the platinum selling nineties hit Last Splash. After a run
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: with The Breeders opening up for Olivia Rodrigo's worldwide Guts
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Tour this year, Kim Deal is once again heading out
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: on her own with the release of her first solo album,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Nobody Loves You More. The album was recorded by the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: late Steve Albini, a close friend and longtime collaborator of Kim's,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and it features a slew of her other friends and collaborators,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: including Slint's Britt Walford on drums and The Breeders, Josephine Wiggs,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Jim McPherson, and of course, Kelly Deal. On today's episode,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Lea Rose talks to Kim Deal about working with Steve
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Albini on The Pixie Surfer Rosa and why he always
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: regretted a specific contribution to that album. Kim also recalls
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: recording The Breeders' first two albums, and she remembers how
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a group of surfers on a druggy trip to Nantucket
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: helped inspire her new lead single, Coast. This is broken
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Here's Lea Rose in conversation with Kim Deal.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the first song from that upcoming solo album, Coast.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So tell me about that. How did that song come about?
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Was the inspiration the song was written sort of in
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen something like that maybe, but sitting down riding
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: the guitar chords and wanting to come up with what
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I thought it sounded like. And what I wanted to
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: talk about was this period of time back when I
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: was staying in Nantucket in the off season in like
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: two thousand. I was living a very druggy sort of
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: life in New York City and I thought I needed
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: to clean up, so I went to Nantucket. What I
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: did was I got a lot of drugs. I go
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: and put them on the island and did them. Eventually
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I just got I just decided I can't do this anymore.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: And one of the things I always will remember are
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: these young island off season workers, you know, looking they were,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: you know, there was a daytime for them. They went
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: out and enjoyed the outdoors and they were so nice
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: and weird and I was like so depleted, but I
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: was hanging out with them, and then they would be
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: yelling about the wham. Checked the wham, We checked the wham,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: and then they would take up the wham. Is a way,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: it's a mob a government model for wave action because
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: they're on an attacket. There's no huge Portuguese sir, so
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: they you know, need to know if there's some even
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: a possibility of some waves. Then they would whatever they're doing,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: they're you know, painting job and they're getting the bar
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: ready for the evening jobs, and they would run to
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: the ocean, you know, get with their stuff and their
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: boards out and their wetsuits. They had the waters cold, yeah,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: and it was just like it was so the idea
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: that people were doing an outdoor activity. It was really
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: nice to see that. Yeah, And I always have a
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: fond memory of that thinking about that, and I just
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: like wham. I thought it was cool anyway, and I
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: had always stuck with me, and so that's what the
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: songs basically. I recorded it as Steve Albini's. Lindsey Glover
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: is the drummer. Mondo Lopez is the bass player. He's
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: the base player for the Breeders Too Long Time.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, was he the one who was in the I
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: watched an old documentary. It was like a Dutch documentary
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: from I think like he was Yeah, yeah, yeah, from Yeah, Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I liked Los Readers. I was wondering what happened to
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: that lineup.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I was in New York City and I was thinking
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: I would get I was recording trying to kind of
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Rivington and Christie down like a two about two thousand
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: or something, and I was in a bar, surprisingly and
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: there were some dudes in there. It was really close
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: to the studio and I liked them a lot, and
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: they told me they were playing with leaving the singer
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: for Fear. They were in Fear. Now obviously this is
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: the og guy's in Fear. But there was a show
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: and they were playing, and now they were hanging out
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: in the bar and I their studio nearby. You guys
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: want to go hang out? And we played all night long.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: They were such good players. And I told them, I'm
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: going to follow you guys out. Where do you guys live?
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: And they said East La. Wow. I said, I'm going
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: to follow you out to East La. They were so
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: surprised when I got there. I didn't even know what
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: East La was, but I soon found out. When I
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: got out there. In East La, everybody was so cool.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: I think they told everybody to be cool to us,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: and everybody was. They were probably been cool anyway. And
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: we would go to Vernon that was where a rehearsal
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: space was and we rode up Title TK and all
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: those guys were on Title TK and then got It
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: also they were on Mountain Battles too.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Got It.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But during I wasn't living there during Mountain Battles.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: I was living there during Title TK. I went to
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: rehab after the tour for Title TK. I went to rehab,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: so then I moved back to my parents' house.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And you moved back to your parents.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: House after rehab.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: After rehab to take care of your mom.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: No, I couldn't taken care of anybody. They picked me
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: up from rehab and they drove me back home and
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: they told me on the way home long was diagnosed.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: But she was fine. I guess once you've diagnosed, there
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: are some obvious signs within the family that there's some trouble.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: But it wasn't huge. You know how thing have you
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: ever dealt with anybody with Alzheimer's or dementia?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I have it.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: It starts a little bit at a time and then
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: it gets worse. So it was it was pretty new.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: So yeah, no, that she was. I wasn't taking care
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: of her. Okay, Yeah, I landed there, got it? Yeah?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: What was rehab like? Do you feel like it was effective?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Did the rehab work? What was your experience like there?
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Oh? I loved it. I loved being loved, I loved
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: being sober. I loved not drinking. I had a great time.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Haven't had a drink since so too.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I really liked it. I really like it still. Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Do you miss smoking pot?
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: I do I miss smoking cigarettes? Oh, got no serruts anymore. No,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I go past a big cigarette cloud and I'm
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: just like, oh my god, that's soap god.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you miss it, you miss the weed, you
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: miss the cigarette, the smoking stuff.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: I've heard that the weed isn't the same and it's
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: kind of a bummer, like you get too stoned or something.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: But I would smoke. I had to quit because I
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: was awake and baked person, so like everything, Like, I
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: didn't just smoke when I drank. I smoked, you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: two packs a day. Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I saw on Reddit people are saying that,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I guess you have a collection of hundreds and hundreds
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: of solo songs that you've written over the past, like
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: twenty years. But is this collection the new Kim Deal
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: album that's coming out. Is that all new songs or
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: is that some of old stuff mixed in.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I don't have hundreds and hundreds of songs, so I
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: wish I did, but I don't. Thanks for rubbing it
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: in and now I feel like I'm just haven't been
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: doing anything.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: No, that was not the intention.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: They are new songs, you know what, though, there are
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: two that are not. But if you just follow me,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: you'll see why these two had to be on there. Okay,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: one of them is, are you mind that was a
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: solo song that I've released on a seven inch okay,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: but I did it on a three eighty eight task
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: Camp that's consumer grade. That is a quarter inch tape.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: The task Am three eighty eight looks like a huge
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: four track machine and it's but it's got one driver
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: and so it's consumer grade. It's not really no good.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: That's what I recorded a seven inch on for Are
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: You Mine? Lindsey Glover Mondo. This guy named Jeffrey played
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: guitar on it. I played guitar on it, saying eight
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: tracks we played at the same time, miked us all up.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: But it's an old dumb machine and it lost track eight.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: So the guitar player, Jeffrey, his beautiful guitar playing was gone.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: You can hear it when you play our in mind.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: You could hear it in the distance. It's like a
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: ghost track. So of course I'm going to try to
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: fix it. So I take the quarters tape and put
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: it on a different three eighty eight. That consumer grade.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: You can't go from one machine to the next. Basically,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: it's a cassette tape, a big, bigger cassette tape. It
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: won't go and play it sounds warble and out of pitch.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: So to me, not recording always sounded a little broken.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: I like it, but to me it was like, oh man,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: too bad, yeah lah lah. So we re recorded it professionally.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: We recorded in Dayton, Ohio. I'm sorry, in Dayton, Kentucky. Oh.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: We drove from Dayton, Ohio to Dayton, Kentucky. It's one
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: and one minute, one minute away from one shitty place
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: to an even shittier place, let's say that. And then
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: we Londo was going through town. He was he was
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: on stage with Morrissey. He was playing bass in the band,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: so he said he would do it. So we got
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: some time. Lindsay flew out from LA and we recorded
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: the basic tracks over again, and then I finished it
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: up at Albini's and then there's a pedal steel on it,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: and then there's strings added on to it. So I
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: really like the way it turned out. So but that's
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: why I recorded that song. And then which I was
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: is the other song on the new album that has
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: been released as a as a seven inch. Already got it,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: but it has vocals. It always had lyrics, but I
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: never could make the lyrics sound cool. I'm sang on
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: the seven inch version of Wish I Was. And Kelly
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: told me it didn't sound good. Just release it as
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: an instrumental. Look, that's my sister telling me. It's like, yeah,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it says not great, but still ash. That's harsh, Kel.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: But I did it and it sounded cool. I released
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: it as an instrumental, but I always liked how you know.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I even took wish I Was and I went to Australia.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: I was doing a Pixie's tour. I stayed over late.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I went to the studio. I thought, I can get
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: some Australian players. We can pull up wish I Was.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: This time I can sing on it. I have it,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I've got it unlocked. It's gonna sound cool like this
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: three four short of a country song. There was even
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: petal steel on it down there nice And I didn't
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: like it. It is okay?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Is Kelly usually the last person you play stuff for.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Is she like the ultimate judge?
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Oh? Because you know if somebody, you know, how many
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: of you wear something, you said you like this, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: somebody goes, yeah, you look good. You don't like it,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: you go okay, great, and you change totally because it doesn't.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: But it's nice to ask somebody, because when you show somebody,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: you look at the outfit differently, you know, in a
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: different way. But it's not what they said. It's how
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: you're looking at the whole thing yourself what I'm talking about.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like your mind is already made up anyway,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: but you're just asking to ask, but you're already gonna
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: do what you're gonna do.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure it could be. This could be okay,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: but seeing it the process of standing there and with
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: another person in the room, like whenever somebody's listening to it,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I hear it in a different way. Yeah, in ir
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: respect of what their experience was. They could like it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: They could turn around and go, I really like that,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: and I could be cringing the whole time. It's odd, No,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: I understand that. Yeah.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Is Kelly on the on your solo stuff.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's on the lot, She's on Coast, She's doing
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the guitar on Coast and then Disobedience. There's a song
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: she's doing guitar all over Disobedience, and she's doing bass
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: pedals on a song called Crystal Math. She's got a
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: cool set up, a cool bass pedal setup, and she's
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: hitting those bass Pedals and Jim McPherson is too oh awesome.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Tell me about working with Albini. First time you met him.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: I was giving him a nash from Urge over Kill.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: His room name's Nate. I was giving Steve and Nate
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: a ride in Boston to the studio Q Division, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Steve was producing the Pixies at Q Division, and Steve
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: was They were playing this cassette tape in the car
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: because they had done some stuff in reverse or something,
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: and they thought it was really cool. But then that's
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: the first time I met him, giving him a ride
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: to Q Division to be the engineer recordist. He would
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: never want to use the word producer.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was curious about that. So he Moore was
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: just an engineer and he liked to kind of stay
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: out of things and not give his opinion.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Oh he has lots of opinions, he might say that,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: But you know, I think what happened, like okay, during
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: that period of time, he had a lot of ideas
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: and we did, and he had this thing that he
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: was taping us that we didn't we knew he was taping,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: we didn't know which parts he was taping, and then
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: he spliced it into the album, and it was hilarious.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: It was really fun. I loved it. But then I
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: think towards you know, later on, while he was working,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I know that it bothers him to think that he
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: would suggest anything to alter any decision that a band
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: would make, or have any influence at all. He told
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Iggy Pop he was a plumber. He's not, you know
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: what I mean. I don't know why he had to
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: go all that way. I like his ideas. He had good,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: cool ideas.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: You know, well, I think it came because of that
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Pixies album. He's I heard him talking to Mark Marin.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: He said, because he inserted himself so much made that suggestion.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: He didn't like the fact that for history, the rest
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: of history, the band would have to answer to his
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: decision and talk about why that was on the record
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: when it wasn't their idea anyway. And I think that
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: bothered him.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I have a feeling he doesn't know that we were choking.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I think he thinks maybe I don't know, because I
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: don't get it. He feels so much remorse about that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: You know, there was this movie called Stripes where there
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: was a guy named Francis and he was a real
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: paranoid guys. Don't touch me, don't touch me, don't touch
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: any of my stuff, don't even look at that sort
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: of thing. And Bill Moorey looks at him and says,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: lighten up, Francis. So me and Charles were doing a skit,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: and what's on there is him saying to me, don't
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: touch my stuff something like that. I think Steve might
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: have clips that moment and thought maybe it was a
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: moment of real I could see him loving to put
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: that moment on the album. He might have thought he
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: was putting a real, vulnerable moment of us, right. I mean,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I've told him it was I don't know, but I
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: don't I'm not I've never heard him say that he
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: thought it was real. But why else would it bothered
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: him so much? Nobody really talks about it. Maybe I
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: make me think that there might have been something else
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: he might have done that he hated that he maybe
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: made a really bad choice, and he sees it. Maybe
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: it came to realize that some of the I don't
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: know some of Maybe there's some of the arguments he
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: might have had in the studio that went his way.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Maybe he realized, as I do it's probably everybody does that.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Listening to it at you know, five years later, it's like,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: oh my god, they were right.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Hmmm yeah, could be.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you said Mark barn that that specifically was
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: bothering him.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he talked about that exact thing, but.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: That wasn't a problem for us personally. Maybe he didn't
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: like to be asked about it, maybe he was being
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: asked about.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: It, or maybe somebody else in the band came to
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: him and had an issue with it after and that's
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: why no.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Knew.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: He also said that you were one of the best
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: people he's ever worked with, and you're the real deal.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: And yeah, he really likes me. We're like family. We
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: were like family. Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: What was it like working with him? Like, how was
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: it different than other engineers or I know, he doesn't
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: like the word producer, but other people you had collaborated with.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Well here's why. Okay, people might think he's a big
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: dick about not liking it. He was a big asshole
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: from not liking the word producer. But back in the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: day as a producer, if I was to produce Natalie Cole,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: I would hire out the studios and the musicians. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: would also have worked closely with Natalie to pick out
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: all of the songs that people have submitted that we
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: would be covering and trying out with the new musicians
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: as we rehearse this record together. I would probably also
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: have hired the musical director to work over the arrangements
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: with her. Maybe we'd start with the piano, just me
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: as a producer of the record in Natalie and a
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: pianist and a musical arranger or something a musical director.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: So the producer is very involved. I think in the
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: old days that's what a producer did. So there are
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: bands that just love Albini and he is available to anybody.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: You call up the studio, he might answer and book
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: your session, or somebody there who's at the desk will
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: just book it two days. You know, you want to
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: go in without being this is what it costs. Okay,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: see you there. And so they come in and he's
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: never heard of them, He's never you know, he'll do
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: it professionally. I'll make sure he has the tape. Then
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: he'll know how many, what the setup, the mic setup
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: will be, so it will all go quickly as possible.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: But you know, if they put produced by Steve Albini
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: on the record. Then it kind of sometimes can look
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: like they went there to get produced by Steve Albini
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: on the record sort of sometimes because it's not really true.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: And so you know, he recorded it and he did
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: he was the engineer, but he wasn't the producer. Who right,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: I mean he had never heard the songs. How could
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: he produce it without ever hearing the songs? He didn't
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: produce the recording at all. He recorded the recording, right,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: So I think that's what he was saying that It's
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: not like he doesn't like producer. It's like he doesn't produce.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: So it's just would bother him because it's not true, right.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: It's not technically what he's doing, It's not at all
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: that makes sense.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, after a quick break, we're back with more from
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Lea Rose and Ken Deal. We're back with more from
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Ken Deal.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: When you first started working on the first Breeders album,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: how is that different than you had when you had
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: worked with the Pixies.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: We were up in Edinburgh and Scotland and we were
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: there for I think eleven days, and I had Tanya
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: and Josephine and Carrie and Britt Walford. You know, Steve
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: is the one who introduced me to Britt Walford to
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: be the drummer of the band. You know, he loved
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: you know, Slint and Britt. He's an eighteen year old
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: kid out of Kentucky. Jorl Lane is so jiller. He's
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: not a good drummer, bread awesome drummer. It's insane. He's
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: so cool. He's on some of the solo stuff, you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: that's one thing I really and he's on this record.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: That's one thing I really think. It's cool about this record.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Like I've played with I've known Britt in the eighties.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: It was eighty nine. He passed out at the pub
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: down the road and they do this thing with blacked
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: out your face if you pass out. He came back
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: to the Edinburgh studio and he had black ash all
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: over from the chimney sort all over his face. It
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: was done with love. I mean they loved it, of course,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: but they totally shooded them up. So it was really
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: we had a good time. It was really fun. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: loved it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: How did it feel for you just creatively, like leaving
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: or not leaving it because you weren't leaving the Pixies
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: yet right, you were still in the Pixies like on
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: a break, that's right. How did it feel for you
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: creatively to have this different band?
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: That's a weird question, Like how did it feel to
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: get your hair cut? It felt like the wind and blowing.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: It's just like, I don't it didn't feel I don't
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: know what. I don't have an answer to that question.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: How did it feel to do music?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Was it exciting? Because now I was exciting.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's always exciting. It's exciting to do records
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: with the Pixies too, super exciting. Yeah, I was excited.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I was excited to be in Edinburgh in a new
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: place and.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm just guessing from the
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: outside what it was like for you to have a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: totally new lane where it's all coming from you.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't feel like it was all coming from me though,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: because we went to where Josephine lives in biggles Way,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: the family manor. It's run down. It was a rundown.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I had thirty two rooms or something of rundown. But
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: it was so it was they were her mom and
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: dad were so sweet and we cleared out one of
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: the rooms and she left. We played there, we rehearse there.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Britt had drums which we had our stuff there, so
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: we rehearsed at Josephine Spot and then we left biggles
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Wade and Steve came for a minute and then we
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: left biggles Wade and went to Edinburgh. So it just
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: felt like we just were recording what we were doing.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: So but it was cool to be in Edinburgh.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then at what point, how soon
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: after that did you start playing shows? Like when did
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: you start playing the songs live?
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: You know, we didn't do it. We did two shows
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: for POD or maybe one, I don't know, and I
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: thought it was weird. I remember those two shows and
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: I remember thinking, this feels weird. I don't know why
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: shows we were over there. I was nervous. We didn't
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: have the album, wasn't out or anything. We just were there,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: had recorded and then also like we don't have a
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: whole set, we have a twenty eight minute album or whatever.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I don't think we did every song. It was weird
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: and I don't remember it really clearly, but I remember
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: not enjoying it and I thought it was weird.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how soon after did you start working on Last Splash?
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Well, we recorded POD and the December of nineteen eighty nine.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Then it came out in ninety and then we did
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: let me guess, I'm going to guess, I'm gonna say.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Then I began rehearsals for Bosonova and La and then
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: and then recording Safari in New York City and recording
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Bosonova and Los Angeles and then recording Trump Lamont in
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: ninety one. So we did. I did touring with YouTube,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: thirty two shows with YouTube. That's in ninety two. We
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: opened for them, and then I was in the studio
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: in ninety three. Like we drove out in January nineteen
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: ninety three. So that's what happened between POD and Last
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Splash to record it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And you recorded Last Splash in San Francisco, Yeah, and
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you drove from Dayton.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We had to take a box truck pull a
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: gear careening through the mountains in the snow. It was
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: really really scary, and Jim was driving and we were
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: yelling and the wyoming passed it was blocked and we
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: had to spend the night since it was really harrowing.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, there was a lot of snow there. I
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: think we went the weird way, like we didn't go like,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know what way you go. Then we went
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: into San France.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: How long did it take to record Last Splash?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: A couple of months. It was really fun. It was
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of work. I remember, We're just going to
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: the back room just so I couldn sist it for
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: a minute. There were so many decisions to be made
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: and so much to do, you know, I just like again,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: then it's coming. It was a lot of work. Yeah,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: we had two studios going because you know, Coast Recorders
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: was a strip. It was in a strip mall, Like
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: this little strip wasn't a strip a huge but the
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: little strip mall buildings. So it was like a jazz room.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: It had a really low ceiling. I had got, you know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I had got by looking at the specs. I didn't
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: think about the ceiling height or anything. So I was
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: looking for something that had a little bit more air
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: in it for drums, you know, because I don't really
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: use outboard gear that will gate and also give you
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: a reverb on your share. You don't, you know, it's
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: not it's not an outboard gear. It's like it's in
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: my positioning, you know, and having a nice drum sound
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: in a room, because a drum is an is an
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: acoustic instrument in a room. So if you have an
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: acoustic instrument in a room, you need to mike it
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: and you need to make it properly for to sound good.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: So usually that's how I, you know, get the verb,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: unless it's to be funny or you know, to have
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: some sort of crazy thing going on. But anyway, I
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: wanted out another studio call Brilliant, with a big room.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: We had to heavy curtain and we did some drumming.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: There is the drum sound the most important sound for
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: you on a project.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Usually, I think for me, if the drums, if drum
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: can sound shitty, actually they can, if they sound shitty,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: cool and if they're played cool and the song is
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: cool and it's cool. B yeah, it can sound shitty,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: but it's not cool to have shitty drums on every
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: single song. I mean, it would be bad if the
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: whole record had like shitty drum sound, I think. And
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: I'm not used to the shitty drum sound. I'm used
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: to the acoustic drum sound. So if it sounds like
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: not like that, then it's like that sounds. You know,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: things are built to go on top of this acoustic
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: drum sound, so it's not going to sound right if
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: it's got a weird it's sensitive, it's touchy. Put reverb
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: on the snare in an outboard gear, it's just like,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: excuse me, what, Wait a minute, what's what's that sound?
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: It's like what? Maybe? No, I don't think so, but
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: it could be cool.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Before you started recording Last Splash, were you thinking about
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the project and what you wanted it to sound like
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: or was it all sort of happening organically? How does
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: that work? How does an album come together?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Usually? Well, I don't really think about albums. I just
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: think about songs. I think for me that makes sense
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: more sense. Although I guess people think of albums, don't they,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: But they've probably got their shit together way more than
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I do. Well, I don't think about albums because it's
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: just it's like, you get enough decent songs together, you're lucky,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: and you put it out and you always are looking.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: I'm always looking at the run time. How much is it?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Is it near forty at all? Forty minutes? Oh my god?
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: How many minutes to twenty eight minutes? And then you
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: hear the inevitable.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Well, Sun's albums twenty eight minutes long. We don't need
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: to do it any longer than that.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think they're not even twenty eight
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: minutes the Black Sabbath albums. I think they might be
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: fucking twenty minutes long the albums, or like twenty two,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: because then you get somebody thing. Remember more than eleven
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: minutes one side of an album.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: It's really sobers. The audio soffers along later the track
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: is on the album, the audio really suffers.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: We shouldn't make it long at all. That's me.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: After this last break, we're back with the rest of
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: our conversation with Kim Deal. We're back with the rest
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of Leo Rose's conversation with Kim Deal.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you a little bit about growing up.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: If you're okay to talk about that, sure, tell me
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: a little bit about your parents. Are they both from
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: West Virginia?
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, my whole where we're from. They're from West Virginia. Yeah,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: they're from Tator Holler. And my brother's the only deal
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: that never worked the coal mine, the first male deal
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: that never worked at the coal mines. He was born
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: down there too, everybody's down there. We go Thanksgiving, Christmases,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: everything goes, we go there. Okay, they came up to
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Ohio because after the Korean thing, my dad met my
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: mom and then you get the gi Bill. You know,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: isn't that a great thing? Yes, So they put him
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: to school. So he was a math professor at Marshall University.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: And then friend of his from West Virginia was hiring White.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Patterson Air Force Base is a huge air force base
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: in Dayton, Ohio, were the right piece accords resigned and
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: for you know, and the Serbian stuff. So he had
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: a job there. And so Kevin and my mom and
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: dad moved up to Ohio and then me and Kelly
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: were born like a year later.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: So okay, so your parents originally met in West Virginia. Yeah,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: have you heard stories about their childhood? What did they
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: tell you about growing up?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Oh? For sure, they out for each other, do you know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: poor people, they out for each other. They try to
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: outdore each other. So I listened to my mom and
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: dad try to outdoor each other. You know. My dad
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: would always give it to my mother. Now, you know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: he did a good thing. They would go back and
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: forth and back and forth, but I remember he always
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: ended up saying you win. She's sure. What really was
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: way poor. But Dad had like he was like talked
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: about putting up a newspaper on the inside of the
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: walls because the wind, the cold wind blowing to it.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: So I don't remember him having a good time either.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: And they were up in the mountains, because even if
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: it's a holler, you're still up the low part, you're
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: still high, I mean the mountains of West virgin or crazy,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, because you just you look out and it's
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: like there's no horizon line anywhere in Westernchinia. You never
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: see where the sun is setting. Not where they took me.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Do you know, like their romance story, like how they
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: got together.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she was a great dancer. And his first words
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: supposedly were, do you want to go to Helen Back?
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Which is a movie to Helen Back. That was the
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: first thing he said. You know, he was asking her
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: for a date. You want to go to Helen Back? Yeah,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: to the drive ins or whatever they do.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, that's pretty racy, it is.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: And she danced till her ankles were black, which you
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: do because it's coal mining, so there's a lot of
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: coal dust around, so everybody got dirty. So she played
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: in the sand piles when she was young near the tracks.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: She grew up in the American coal mining camp that
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: has a company store and stuff like that. And her
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: granddaddy was a cool miner. He died a black lung. Wow.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: And dad lost us an out of the key on
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: the side of the mountain because he just hit something
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: that or cicheted off while he was dangling. Just the
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: front take from hair to hear like one like two,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: pass the incisors and then of all the front teeth. Yeah,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: with the c ciche of the hammer when he was
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: hitting something or other vein or something of coal. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: So he worked in coal mine, but then he went
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: to college.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: That's right. He was signed on as a physicist. I
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: believe that right, Patterson Air Force Base.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, then he ended up being I think I was
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: the director of the avionics lab up there, and he
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: was responsible for the down pilot system and some radar.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: My brothers all about it because he really likes that stuff.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And yeah, did you feel pressure as a kid to
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: like follow in his past.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: No, because he would never discuss any of that with me.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he discussed it with Kevin that
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: much either until he got older. Yeah, it's a depression Eric,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: you know. So he didn't really talk that much. He
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: didn't talk about work. He didn't talk about you know,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: down pilot projects as he was working on. To me,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: he did try to take he took guitar lessons, and
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: that's where he would have the guitar on the floor.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I was certain, and I picked it up and started
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: playing it, and there was a folder there and there
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: was a tableature for King of the Road. And that's
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: when I started picking it up. And he did say,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: you're that guitar quicker than I am, so, and I did.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if he ever learned how to
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: play guitar.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Actually, So, do you feel like you had sort of
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: just like a natural knack for guitar.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I didn't feel like it, but maybe I did because
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: he didn't learn it and I did, so it would
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: sound easy to me. There's a little picture with the
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: little dots, a little tablature, and you put your little
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: dot on the dots. It's fun. Oh yeah, yeah. So
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: then you just keep doing and it's just sitting there.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: It's a quiet thing to do. It was nice and
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed the strings resonating and the guitar body resonating.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: I think it's a really relaxing, peaceful sound. I like
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: it very much.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what were you like when you were in high school?
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: What was your style? Like, what were you into?
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Well, we lived in Juber Heights. It was a sebs
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: and it was a smaller town, you know, I think
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: I said thirty thousand smiling people. It was a community
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: of brick homes and little streets, and the kids played
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: out outside on the street with each other, and there
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: was a lot of other children to play with, so
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: there was you know, teams of kids running around the streets.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: So that was nice. And we got called in you
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: know at the when the street lights came on. Yeah,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and catching lightning bugs. And there was a stand up
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: swimming pool in the backyard. Kids came over and we.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Did you do whirlpools where everyone runs out?
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and the water splashes out and the dad
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: would getting mad because they have to with hose back in. Yes, definitely.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Were you a musician already in high school? Were you
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: known as sort of like, you know, someone who plays.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was playing Yeah. I wasn't a known musician
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: in high school though, but I had a guitar and
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: I was writing stuff. I would have died if if
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: somebody had heard me, you know, died.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: What were you writing about?
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Stupid shit? Just horrible stuff.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Do you remember any of your songs from back then?
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I do so long. Yeah, And there was a
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: place called hair Or Arena, and that's where all the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: hard rock. There's a big culture of hard rock in
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: the Midwest and the sevs. I mean we saw black
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: og Ark and saw Brownsville Station, Sammy Agar, Marshall Tucker Band, Rush, Nugent,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: the Outlaws, Rainbow. I mean it was just part of
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: the touring circuit.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Were you into it, UFO?
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I liked the hard rock bands. Yeah, some I
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: liked more than the others. You know. I loved Zeppelin
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: and Sabbath and Journey. I loved back then when host
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: did I like, I liked Floydster Cult Don't Feel a Reaper.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: The Queen News of the World album was huge for me.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Would you always hang out with Kelly, Like, who was
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: your crew? To like go to two shows?
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I went with Kelly. Sometimes I didn't, you know,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I remember being seeing Kelly like on stage during Marshall
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Tucker Bant like she was somehow sitting on the PA
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: or something. It was crazy, that's cool.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Did you think like back then, like, oh I want
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: to be on stage one day, I want to be
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: a professional musician.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Oh no, absolutely not, I don't. Yeah. No.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Then how did you and Kelly start playing around town?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: How did that come about?
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Probably the first thing we did probably is I think
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: maybe my mom, who was an early early childhood education teacher.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: She was very involved. She was in parents co op
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: and she was a teacher. She organized it all. And
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: I think they had a booth at the community park
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: for a summer fourth or something like that, and I
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: think there were two stools, and also weddings. We were
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: asked to play weddings for adults. Any song was big.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Kelly could sing alvam Maria, Wow. Kelly sang the rose
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Bet Midler and we would play like the ground round.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: It's like people at tables and you would drink eat
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: peanuts and you would the shells would just fall on
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: the floor and do four sets a night.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: And there wasn't a PA, I don't think there.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: So you're ambiance while people are saying there eating peanuts, drinking.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Absolutely and we would sing original songs that you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: as well as other songs that were playing.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about the Big Sur the
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Big Surch show that you just recorded.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Didn't that turn out great? Those animations it's beautiful, Yeah,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: it really is.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: It's really really nice and you look like you're having
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: so much much fun.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: I was really nice. You know. The show was canceled
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: because there was so much rain. It was just raining
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: and raining, and everything was sort of flooded, like the
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: stage itself. Some of the cabling was just sitting in
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: water because it was outdoors and it just be there
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: was a deluge for so long. If you imagine people
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: walking in there was just huge puddles of mud just
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: even standing where they would be standing. Oh yeah, so
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: it's like, let's call it. And I guess it happens
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: quite often, you know that there's so much train.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: So our tour manager, a guy named Rory, I knew
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: symb Ellas and they were interested in recording us, and
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: there was an ideal about it and they said, you know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: we can come up to Big Sur and record the show,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: and then the show wasn't happening, so we just went
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: into the woods and they did that and it turned
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: out so good.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody seems so happy and it sounds so beautiful.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: How did you pick what songs to play out there?
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: We wanted to do them. You know, the violin is
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: a good one, you know, stuff to do with violin
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: because we have the violin there, and it kind of
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: picked the ones that work with the instrumentation that's available,
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: so it was pretty easy to pick them.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I love do You Love Me?
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Now? Yeah?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: That song is so beautiful when you write like a
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: song like that, is that come from a personal experience
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: or is it just a fictional thing?
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: That is one of the songs me and Kelly would
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: sing during being sort of you know, Joe's is a
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: fish house days really Yeah, And I remember like we
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: were doing many sets in one day, you know, in
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: one evening, did you got to do three sets or something?
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: And I remember I think if they were traveling for work,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: because one of the guys came up and just who
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: you know, we did a lot and they were sitting
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: there in the hotel or when nearby or something, and
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: they I remember somebody specifically saying they really liked that song.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: It was good, but then that's not the song that's
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: on the record, though it's been changed a little bit
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: because I went back at it, you know, in my twenties.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: I look back at that thing that I used to
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: sing at Jose as a fish house, and I just went,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: this is almost good. But it's so dumb. But the
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: sentiment that what it used to be. The sentiment makes
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: me feel so it's like, I don't know. It was
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: so easy to like relate to the song in a
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: different way, like in a more of a snarling way.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I think the way that you first sang it it
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: was more snarling, or the second way.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: The second way, I think was more snarling. There was
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: something innocent and sort of benign about the first way
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: I did it, although I liked, I like to song,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: and I wanted to do it. But it was easy
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: to just change the arrangement a little bit, make it
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: more menacing and to me that the meaning of the
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: song has changed for me, and it doesn't sound like,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: you know, instead of like when two hearts have torn away,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: now sothing like a bloody horns just thar. It's just
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: so stupid.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: It's also jump.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: And that I enjoyed. That was not the song we
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: sang at Jose's offishals. It was a little different. But
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: this is if that makes sense.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Do you remember who you wrote it about?
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Not really? I mean I didn't really write it about anybody.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: They're kind of somebody, but not enough to Actually it was,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: you know, not really, And I think that's why it
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: kind of it was easy to bend into something different
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: because it wasn't sobdenly about really anything other than you know, oh,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: this is a song goes like this, but now the
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: transformation of it being menacing and stuff. Oh, it's definitely
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: about some stuff now. Oh, definitely. It means way more
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: now than it did, which is weird to have. That's
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: a nice successful song, something that meant nothing before that,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: I don't makes itself now. Good job.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Success.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: What was the melody like at first?
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: It's pretty similar. The melody was pretty similar. Yeah, yeah,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: it's the same melody. The arrangements were different, and it's
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: just a versus were a little different. Stuff like that.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else you want to talk about with
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: the new album? Any songs you want to talk about.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Or you know, one of things about the record that
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: I like is that I'm proud of the good relationships
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: I've had with people that I've been playing with in
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: my life, like Mondo and Lindsay just working with Tee
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I've known in the eighties, and Kelly and Jim McPherson's
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: been on it, and Josephine actually played bass on Disobedience,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: but her bass guitar was weirding out and so I
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: had replayed it. And then some new people the Jack Lawrence,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: you know he plays bass for Racontourskay, and it's Kentucky.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: He's from the Green you know, Green Horns, since it's
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: sort of a Cincinnati band. I used, you know, the
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Teenage Fan Club. Yeah, there's a guy named Raymond who's
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: the guitar player, and I used him on the guitar.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: It was the first time i'd used had played with Raymond.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: And then like when coming up with the songs, like
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: I I had sang at Albini's wedding with Heather, Me
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: and Kelly went to Hawaii. We were like family, sang
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: at the wedding and we played a song that she
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: wanted for her wedding song at Dolly Parton song and
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: we did the bridal march. I played the Bridal March
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: on guitar, and I went to the island and got
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: a bunch of ukuleles and handed them out as so
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: all of us, you know, because there's a lot of
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: musicians can play along, you know.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: With the ut you know, and that's such a good idea.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really fun. It was good there. It
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: was such a great such a great time. And for
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: a wedding gift, Steve and Heather got us quite like
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: nice ukuleles, you know. And I was packing my stuff up,
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: my gear to go someplace, and I threw with the ukulelean.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: It wasn't even mine, it was my one my sister got.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: There was a sheet that came in the package, that
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: laminated chord sheet, and I just started picking it up,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: found how to shoot my dog has fleas, and then
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: had the laminated chord sheet and started playing around with it,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: and I wrote this song on it, the ukulelean in
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: my head. It had these melodies and these incredibly complicated
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: orchestral movement happening all the way through it. And I
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: just and I was like Joseph being she was up,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: you know. We were going to rehearse for some stuff.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: I think it was doing all nerve stuff or something,
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: and I grabbed the ukulele. I have written a song
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: on ukulele and she looked at me. She went, absolutely not,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: it's just funny. So then I knew, like that song
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: would be a solo one. It wouldn't be a Breederish one.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: You know, It's like and that's yeah, on the way
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: to thinking about an album.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: You know, is there new Breeders music coming out or
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: working on?
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Or we play Disobedience in the Breeders shows. Well they're
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: all on it. Yeah, it gets confusing, It gets confusing.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: It is confusing.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, and yeah, thank you Kim. It's so
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: nice to talk you and.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I love talking to you. Thank you.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for doing this and best of luck
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: with all.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Thanks Token Deal for chatting through her career and the
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: making of her new solo album, Nobody Loves You More.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite tracks from the Pixies,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: the Breeders, and Kim solo work on a playlist at
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Broken record podcast dot com, and be sure to follow
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Erek Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinday.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
• 48:48
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• 49:04
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• 49:06
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• 49:09
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• 49:17
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