Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 45 How to Build a Personal Brand That Actually Converts with Chloe

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45 How to Build a Personal Brand That Actually Converts with Chloe · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, hello everyone, and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Jaden, and today we have a special guest, Chloe.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Chloe is a personal brand coach.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: She's incredible.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's built three multi-sig figure brands of her very own, and she's also helped countless others do the same thing.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're really excited to have her on the podcast today.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: We we've been um like internet mutuals for a while now, just kind of like sometimes sliding into each other's DMs.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we both just got married, so I was like, what a better time! Like, what a better time to record.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're excited to have her on today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um basically we're just gonna talk about some of the personal brand roadblocks people face when they are trying to build a personal brand, just kind of go through those and give you guys some tips and strategies to overcome them and build your personal brands.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we're excited to have Chloe.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you just say a little bit about yourself and what you do?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! Thank you so much for that introduction and also congrats, congrats on the wedding, congrats on getting married, what a magical time! Like incredible, but yeah, just to I won't bore everyone with my whole life story, but just to give a little bit of a background.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated in 2017 with a creative direction degree, and actually back then when I started university, social media wasn't like a massive thing.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: When I started, it was 2014, and I remember I met one of my best friends at uni and I said, What's your Instagram?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: and she was like, What's Instagram?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was 2014.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, so much has changed since then, as obviously we're in 2025 now, and yeah, so I graduated in uh 2020 uh 17, and then I went into a few minimum wage jobs.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was always really creative, but I never really knew what I could do for myself, right?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I never really knew what the online space could do.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it wasn't until lockdown, which I think a lot of people can relate to, like thinking outside the box, okay, what can I do?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I look back on my journey, obviously I've been in business now for about five years, since 2020.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think how amazing that we got that opportunity to all think outside the box and like leverage the online space.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: But what it comes down to a lot of the time is building a personal brand.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's a bit a little bit about my journey.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then since I started my social media management business in 2020, I've been helping hundreds of women in business grow a brand through strategy, like mindset, all the different things.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I'm obsessed.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait to have this conversation.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, you're just amazing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I love your content and I love your energy about it too.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that so many like gurus or social media managers or experts in this space can get so like pigeonholed and niched into like really specific ideals of how it's supposed to be.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that it doesn't feel like that with you.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like very mindset, very energetic, very uh personal.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone has their own way to do things, and I feel like you really support that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons that I always find your content very inspiring.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, and congrats to you too.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, awesome.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we should start with the the biggest roadblock that I mean, I have clients say this to me all the time, but um, or like say that they've heard this online, but it's like, okay, to have a personal brand, you need to share more personal stuff.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: What does that even mean?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: What's your take?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I have a lot to say on this because I think if you think about it, if it was just about sharing more personal stuff, anyone would be a millionaire that just wanted to overshare.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So realistically, that's not the strategy behind it, that's not the intention.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Building a personal brand really is just you leveraging trust, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have grown up in this world, I know you're in the US, I'm obviously in the UK, but generally speaking, brands we are more trusting in, say, for example, like Costco, we've got supermarkets, we've got Nike, right?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Adidas.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have been bought up around those brands, we are trusting, right?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when a person decides to launch a business, we have a lot of trust building to do.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a personal brand, you're basically nine, nine times out of ten more likely going to convert if someone trusts you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So having a personal brand is basically about building credibility and trust.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, you can share more of you if you want, but I think the advice to just share more of you is quite dangerous because then people sometimes overshare and don't get an ROI on oversharing, then they burn out.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not really about oversharing.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course, you can share what you want.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can share if you want to get, if you're getting married, if you've got a cute dog, if you like a matcher in the morning.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's great for engagement, sure.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're actually building a business, people are gonna invest into you because of the ROI they get for their investment, right?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna invest into a skill, a product or service, not because you have a cute dog.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yes, share if you want is great for engagement.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: People want to see your personality.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It does build trust and connection, but it's not gonna be the be all the end all to someone paying you.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I feel like a really good example of this is like influencers, who obviously like that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a lot of people like think of as a personal brand.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you can totally tell, like, when an influencer gets really big from whatever, like they're oversharing, they're taking you on day in the lives, whatever it is that they've chosen as their like niche, and then they break the trust with their audience in whatever way.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've seen this time and time again.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then their personal brand really starts to crumble.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that that story or or the day in the life isn't gonna save you from the breach of trust.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that really does just like show an example that it's way more about the trust than like whatever personal stories you decide to tell.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had clients, I've had many, many clients that come to me as influencers.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have one client that comes to my mind.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: We did a big brand, like rejig.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was getting millions and millions of views.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: She was doing like the really gorgeous morning routine aesthetics, like, you know, when they set up the camera and they pour that iced coffee and just everything looks amazing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Millions and millions of views was not converting a dollar, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it, yes, the personal brand is there because we're like, she looks cute, she's pretty, she's attractive, she's got an ideal life.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even you know, we don't know everything in her life, but it looks ideal.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're almost inspired by that iced coffee.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everything looks amazing, the kitchen looks nice, her gym set looks nice, sure, but she wasn't making any money, and she said that very openly with me when we started.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually like it just goes to show that you can have all of the views and the likes, which obviously is incredible for growing your brand anyway.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if the fundamentals aren't there, if there's no business structure, if there's no trust in what you're actually giving to people, you won't convert.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, don't get me wrong, it's great for engagement.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: People love to see a cute pick of like a dog or the wedding or whatever, but you're selling a you're building a business and you're selling a product or service.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, you can get into oversharing fatigue when you share too much and you don't get anything back for that.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: What so what would you say like builds trust then?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see skills.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's an example?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Audience wants your your consumer wants to see skill or talent or you know, filling a gap.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you giving me?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Say, for example, I'm thirsty, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna buy a bottle of water because that water's gonna hydrate me, or electrolytes, for example.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna spend a lot of money on electrolytes because it's gonna hydrate me and make me feel good.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is your product or service doing for these people that makes them feel good or is going to fix a problem or gets them closer to a desire?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: What gap are you filling?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, to build that trust, you need to show I am the credible source.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I understand where there's a gap, or I understand what you're working towards, or I understand your needs, I know how to solve that, or I know how to fix that, or I know how to help you in some way.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just showing like you've done it before, or you do it for yourself, or you've tried and tested things, you've taken messy action.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: People then start to build that trust with you that you're a credible source on giving them that ROI for their investment.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, for example, with your client that um had like the aesthetic get ready with me's and stuff, it's like the aesthetic can sell maybe views, but it's not gonna actually convert into whatever you're selling.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you're saying maybe that client needed to show, like peel back the curtain to show how they got to the point to choose that coffee or how they how they built whatever, like how they chose the elements of their kitchen or things like that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is that kind of what you're saying?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like they need to kind of go a little bit more like in the weeds back into like the decision-making process, so it's not just cute.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: It there's more to like latch on to.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is that kind of what you're saying?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think if you're an influencer, if it's an influencer-style business, you want to ask yourself, what am I selling?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Am I just selling content so that I can get brand deals?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's the strategy.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So then I want to show these brands my skill, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want to show the brand that I'm good at content creation.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: That could be the aim.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: With this specific client, she actually's got like a degree in all of these different things.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's very, very smart.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: We actually built a business around helping women habit stack.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So her creating all of this aesthetic content was actually kind of not relevant, really, because she wanted to help these women with habits and like mindset, and it was a lot of like neuroscience and psychology that she does with her work.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, she was getting in all those views, but she wasn't selling her one-to-one coaching because no one really saw her as the expert.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, in that there was no connection.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was no connection between those two.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Even though the habit for her was pouring that matcha, getting up in the morning, going to her pilates, and everyone saw that as aesthetic content, but no one saw her as the authority or a credible source to help them with their habits.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we just shifted the strategy and she was more so focused on her value, her skill, and how she has impacted her life to get to that point, and then how she can help people do the same.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So for the listeners, it's just thinking, who am I selling to?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: What is my purpose?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Am I an influencer that wants brand deals?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let me show them how I can take great content for their brands.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm a service provider, who am I speaking to?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: How is this content actually showing that I have a skill that can help them in a positive way?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is kind of a side note, tangent, but I do feel like even the influencer space is all kind of shifting a little bit more to service providers too.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think a lot of influencers were relying heavily on brand deals and things like that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then now they're kind of like, okay, how, but how can I like have more control over this?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, how can I sell something or be a service provider or create a digital product or whatever so that I can kind of have more control over my content and my brand and my income.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's so interesting.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it honestly like it connects very well into the second point that we kind of mentioned.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, visibility, people think that visibility is more important than clarity, which is very close to what you just said, where you're like, yeah, those get ready with me's we're getting a ton of views, but it actually didn't match up clarity-wise with what she wanted to offer.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's your thoughts on that?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I see this so much.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I get a lot of clients come to me and say, um, I'm working on getting more followers or I want to grow my personal brand.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And to that, for them, looks like going viral, getting the big numbers, getting high engagement, which by the way, great.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all obviously want to get more awareness and we all want the visibility.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's not a bad thing.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have a business model that can then hold that visibility and convert the visibility, you're going to again then burn yourself out with trying to chase these big numbers and trying to get all of these eyes on your business when actually it's not then converting for your business anyway.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've got another example of this.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a client, she's just hit 100,000 followers on TikTok, and she's still like she should be making triple, if not like five times the amount that she is.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: But her business, that's why she's come to me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Her business wasn't supporting the numbers.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all well and good getting the viral numbers, of course, but you have to make sure that your brand and your business actually can hold that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are chasing the bigger numbers without potentially thinking about how am I going to convert that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And again, people get visibility fatigue because they're just chasing the big numbers and like, how can I go viral?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: How can I go viral?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great if you can then convert.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of brands that go viral and then convert, great, win-win, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just chasing the visibility without the actual fundamentals of a brand and the conversion and the value and the skill, it won't convert.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, what are you gonna do with all the numbers?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, uh, visibility and awareness is great if you can then utilize it, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is such a good point.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's not a point that it's not like and the people listening to this podcast have heard that before, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, yeah, it's not about the numbers, it's not about the numbers.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like it's so hard to like really understand that it's that the numbers are just one part of the whole picture.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're saying, of course, like everyone loves to go viral, like everyone loves to see those big numbers, get a bunch of followers.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is fun, it's exhilarating, but at what point are you going to take those numbers and followers and turn them into income so you can continue doing what you're doing?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's crazy because it's crazy we're having this conversation because lately I've been kind of scrolling on TikTok, and I don't know why my algorithm is like this right now, but I'm getting these accounts that it's like they have millions of followers on TikTok, and they're like going back to corporate because like I'm not getting brand deals, whatever, like I'm not making any money, and they've got their like now they're working in nine to five.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I go to their page and I'm like, there's no reason, no reason that you shouldn't be making a sustainable income when you have that big of a platform.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's wild to me to see these accounts, and it's just obviously like there is an obvious disconnect with their audience where they're like not converting, whatever that means.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I do feel like there's a lot of brands now that yes, they want to see, say, for example, you're you're doing UGC or you're looking for brand collabs or whatever it is.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course, these brands want to see that you've got some following if that's your goal, if you are an influencer.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, a lot of brands are like, are you connected to them?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are they buying from you already?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you just have like because also people buy followers and engagement?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to actually see that the community is real.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of brands are now shifting into maybe smaller influencers or UGC creators that are actually passionate about the product, passionate about the work, the brand, the community, and then are converting.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, these brands want to make money.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, just having loads of followers, it feels nice for a bit, but then what?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Then what are we doing with that?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want that to put anyone off.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if anyone does want to grow their following, absolutely go for it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: But just be mindful of like what is my goal?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: How am I making this a livelihood?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because what if you lose your account, touch wood, that doesn't happen.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: But what if you lose your account?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: What are you falling back on?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I know for a fact, with me, I've got a very stable, I've got a very loyal client base, I know how I'm serving, I've got skills that aren't just gonna, you know, disappear overnight.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just thinking, how am I actually building this into a business and into a stable livelihood rather than just chasing something that might make us feel good for like 10 minutes?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's so true.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you and I are obviously talking about social media, but in the same breath, like your social media is just supporting a business.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when people, at least for me, like I get clients that come to me and are like, I want to grow my social media.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what do you, what does that mean to you?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean to you?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do you want to grow your social media and what does that mean?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you actually want more money?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you want more money, growing your social media actually might not even matter.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: There could be other ways for you to get more money that aren't on social media, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just like defining what that is and understanding that, yes, there are people, like there are influencers that make a hundred percent of their income from social media, but that doesn't have to be like your business model.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, like for my clients, I don't I discourage them from having all eggs in social media basket.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you need to have business foundations, you need to have email funnels, you need to have a brand that can outlive whatever changes and things might happen just on social media.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think a good part of this conversation, this is obviously a little bit random that I'm bringing this up, but I think it's relevant.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Love island is on right now.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's on on in the US, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's in on in the UK too.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's obviously talks that people go on there to get following, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then I often think, like, I would love to just sit down with the whole Love Island team and be like, how are you prepping them afterwards?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because some of them come out and they make a brand, a personal brand from it and they launch a podcast or a fashion range or they do collabs, they've got a business head on.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the ones that don't have a business head on and they're chasing the followers tend to like not get that many followers anyway, and then just kind of disappear in the business landscape because they don't have that baseline of like, okay, how am I actually gonna make my money?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: They could, yeah, go viral once or twice, they could get a couple of hundred thousand followers or whatever it is, but then it's like that's not sustainable, and they have to go and get a job afterwards, so they didn't actually get what they wanted.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you said, it's asking the question of like, what are you gonna you like?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna utilize that platform?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you might get more followers.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that to then launch your own brand?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is that to then get more brand collabs?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people miss that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought that was relevant to add in about how a lot of people are chasing followers, even going on big TV shows to chase followers, but then what?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Then how are you gonna make your money from it?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, brand deals may be in the start, but how is that gonna be sustainable, you know?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same for business owners and entrepreneurs across across the board.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am with you a hundred percent.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, even on like The Bachelor and and those sites or those shows, you always see like there are some characters that come out of that, and then they have massive success.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're they grow these businesses, they launch product lines of their own, they start a podcast, they do all these things, and then there are others that you're like, oh no, like what happened?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, I I mean, I bet they don't do anything to support the social growth of the people on the shows, really.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I would bet that they don't do much, and I think they probably should, but um, they're I think just in it for the views of the show, and then it drops off, which this is also funny and totally a side tangent, but this is more a bachelor example, but it's really interesting because they make them all sign these really intense NDAs and stuff like that, which I get to a degree, but I've always thought like their shows would be so much more successful if you could get the lore and the tea.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, I don't know if you've watched that, but it's I love it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I'm in Utah, it's huge here.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um, they've done a very good job of not doing that, like their entire PR, their entire thing is like we're getting tea from the squeeze podcast, we're getting tea from like the all these characters going on all these other podcasts, and it makes you want to watch the show more.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I've just always found it really interesting that like the bachelor's like so opposite of that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you never really hear about what happens, what really happened on the show, which like is way more interesting.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: People are way more interested in that, and that would make them like watch, want to watch the show.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the amount of the people uh people are so interested in like the podcasts that come after a show, and they usually go like the most viral, like the clips of people like slating each other online is like what it's like the tea, like you said.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's again like how are we utilizing these platforms and not just leaving people high and dry.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And again, for your audience and your listeners right now, thinking about how are you utilizing your social media.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, if you want to grow your following, great, but where are we then putting people?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are we then doing with it?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is such an important conversation for everyone.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think so too.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm obsessed with it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's I think it's so important.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and just to reiterate that point, it's um not chasing visibility more than clarity.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like you should be you should have more clarity than you should be chasing visibility.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't have the clarity and you get the visibility, you're not gonna be converting in the way you want.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, clarity on what am I selling, who am I talking to, where is this going?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like it can change.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I always say to my clients, like you can have a goal with the whole clarity aspect, like you don't have to have the most perfect clarity to take action.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that sometimes paralyzes people a little bit to be like, I don't know exactly what I want, but you don't need to have a hundred percent clarity, but it's just having a little bit of clarity on actually what am I selling?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is it me?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it brand collabs?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a skill?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a service?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a product?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then leveraging the visibility rather than just being like, I don't know what's going on, but I just want to go viral, then that's not going to be sustainable.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, clarity over chasing the dopamine hits and uh little injections of views and things like that for sure.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love that one.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the third thing we have on here is like how much slash what to share.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because people kind of, I mean, I even get lost in the sauce here sometimes too, where I'm like, what do I want to share?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like, how much am I willing to peel back the curtain?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you can get kind of like wadded up in that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: So what's your advice?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly think it's it is personal like, you know, it's up to you basically.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's up to you, but you just have to remember people aren't going to pay you because of your hobbies and your personal life, unless, you know, again, you're an influencer looking for brand deals in a certain way, whatever.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a business owner, people are gonna pay you because you are providing something for them that they can't provide for themselves.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, say, for example, with me, very similar to you, obviously, just got married.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I want to share that, I will share it, but I'm very much well aware that that is not gonna grow my business, right?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not looking for brand collabs with wedding dresses.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I'm not doing that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just sharing because I know my community like it as well.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have had a few messages to be like, oh, I can't wait to see the pics or clients that are like, oh, you know, congratulations or whatever.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to keep my community up to date, but I'm very much aware that that is not scaling my business.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna just not talk about my business and only talk about my wedding and hope people hire me.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly to the fact that I'm obsessed with my dogs, like my dogs and my world.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've got two very cute dogs.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also very aware no one really cares.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like people like to see a cute dog pick.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, if I see people putting pictures up of their dogs, I'm gonna reply and I'm gonna say how cute they are, but that is not gonna be the reason that I hire you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, with the whole balance of like how much to share, what do I share, all of that, realistically share what you want, but just be mindful, what do my what does my community need from me?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: How am I positioning myself?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we can grow the engagement by sharing you going out for a nice bougie dinner, you being on holiday for sure.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's great for engagement.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to put it on your stories, put it on your stories.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not gonna be the reason that someone looks at you and thinks, oh, this person's a really good social media manager or this person's a really good mindset coach.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it could be a little bit of lifestyle, yes, it could be attraction marketing, but again, it's like ask yourself what's relevant.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what happens a lot with my clients is they say to me, again, before hiring me, or at the beginning, they say, Oh, I've been sharing so much of my life and I'm still not where I want to be.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but people aren't buying that, you know, you're not an influence, you're not a lifestyle influencer, so people aren't gonna, you can share what you want.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also it's just getting a little bit clear with your boundaries.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have some things that I don't want to want to share online, you know, and that's totally fine.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't necessarily always share my partner, for example.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not that I necessarily mind, it's just not relevant and I don't want to.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So just have those boundaries with yourself of like, what do I actually want to share?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to keep private?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then just go with that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: But just again, remembering people are looking for an expert or a credible source or someone that can help them with something, not someone just to follow along and not pay.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like watching your stories from I think they call it a hens, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what they call it?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like from that and from your your wedding and from your uh honeymoon and stuff like that, like watching it was really interesting to me because obviously, like I'm we're like literally doing the same thing right now.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, okay, fun.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I connected with you on that, but it actually like brought your content back to my feed because like I don't know why, but I wasn't seeing it before.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was noticing and watching kind of how you are in your stories and how you're like fun, like here's my little recap, but then also like weaving it into the actual story of like what you're selling, which blows my mind.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not, I don't, I don't feel like I'm good at that, but watching you do it was so interesting, and I'm like, okay, so she's like blending these two things to sell her offer, which I mean it worked, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: It worked really well for you.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you it's really interesting to hear obviously your side to that because I'm obviously in my own business.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think to be honest, I'm a personal brand business consultant, I've been in marketing a very, very long time.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do think an element of it comes maybe a little bit naturally to me, and this is kind of why I'm good at what I do.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think because it comes naturally to me and it makes sense.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just it's a habit for me now, and this is what I do with my clients and anyone that I work with or anything that I do and talk about or anything, like on these podcasts or at events, is trying to show you that it gets to be quite natural for you.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to be overthought.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's realistically thinking I have a business account, people are looking to be served.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I know some people shy away from the overselling and things like that, but ultimately people are following you because they need they need you, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, we're interested in you.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: We want to build that connection with you as a human.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: People buy people and then they buy things.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll know deep down subconsciously that you trust me.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you've invited me here today, because you trust that I'm a real human that has something good to say, but equally you still know that I'm good at what I do.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just trying to weave in like, yes, I'm a human, yes, I'm excited about my life.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I also share these things as well because I'm like, I've just had my dream wedding that my business has obviously helped fund.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also relevant, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's proof to me that I get to create this life, the goal on this honeymoon, because I can pay for it because of my business.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all kind of relevant and it's a little bit of an attraction marketing thing as well.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it's again just weaving in yes, sharing your lifestyle if you find it relevant, but why is that relevant to your audience?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So showing that you get to live this lifestyle, showing that you get to have the great business and a happy marriage, you know, showing all of these different things, but then just being mindful that your audience are looking at you for help as well with what it is that you do.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really interesting to hear your side because you've obviously seen it from the other side looking in.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was just really interesting to me, and I think you do it so well.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when it comes to selling, I think so often, like this conversation, it bores it's so freaking boring to me because it I hear it so much and I don't agree with it.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: But people are like, I'm afraid to sell, I think it's annoying, I think it's blah, blah, blah.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, then what?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Then you don't trust yourself.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Then that's just showing that you don't trust yourself because, like, if you really believed in yourself and your offer, you would know that it's helping people, and that's there's literally nothing annoying about that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think as a personal brand, I personally am so excited to quote unquote sell because for me it's oh my goodness, when someone gets their hands on this offer or when someone experiences this thing, or when I get to help this person, it's gonna be incredible.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so eager for more people to experience that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, if I've got the capacity or whatever I'm talking about, I'm so excited because I'm launching something currently with someone, and we've just launched a new offer, and when we're doing that, I didn't think for a second, oh my goodness, I'm selling too much.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even think that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking when people join this thing or when people experience this thing, it's gonna be incredible.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I'm thinking.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have that relationship with what you're offering or what you're selling, quote unquote, there's probably a bit of a disconnect to how you're serving.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm so obsessed with serving people and helping in the way that I know I can make a difference, it doesn't feel icky.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's any ickiness, it's probably because you're not a hundred percent connected to how it's helping people because helping people isn't icky.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So how can selling to them be icky?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And also, if there's the people, if there's anyone in your audience that maybe does get a little bit tired of you selling all the time, then they can simply just not watch, and that's totally fine.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be for everyone, but you're running a business at the end of the day, and people have opted in to follow you and look at your content knowing that you're a business, so of course you're gonna sell.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like Apple, for example, I always use this example, but Apple wouldn't be like, sorry, we've spoken about the new iPhone 50 million times with you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: They don't care, they're just like, Oh my gosh, this iPhone's amazing, and they keep talking about it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get sick and tired of seeing it, you just unfollow them, and that's fine.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same for you, it's like you should be celebrating your work, and the right people will stick around and the wrong people will simply remove themselves, and that's fine.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think, and I think there's some like mindset that goes into it because I think people have been sold to maybe in icky ways, or they bought into some selling tactics from other people and then joined a course and then it didn't go like they thought it would, you know.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think people have lost trust based on their own experiences, and like that can kind of affect the trust that you have when you're selling, right?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're like, wait, am I?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can get kind of like, I don't know, in your head about it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's just like you're saying, like, it's just important to like have the confidence behind your offers.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I loved what you said about like it's celebrating your offer, not necessarily even selling it.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like, this is so good, it's gonna change whoever's life.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm excited to tell you about it because I know the results, and like I think that reframe can do so much for your mindset on selling.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've definitely been burnt, by the way.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, while we're here, I've been in containers and bought courses where I'm like, what?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've definitely been sucked in, don't get me wrong.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, for a bit, it probably did make me feel some type of way about selling because some people are smart, like, some people are so good at selling and marketing, and potentially their offers aren't as great as what they made out to be.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's that whole thing, but like I feel like you can maybe just have a little bit of a digest from it and be like, okay, that kind of was annoying or whatever, but I'm now just gonna lean more into my power and make sure that I don't do that, and I can just be as honest as possible.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you can use it as putting you off selling, or you can use it as ammo to then celebrate yourself harder and celebrate your values better.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like double down on yourself and your your own offer, yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think definitely, because I think we've all experienced the the either like being sold to and you buy in and it's not what you thought, and you're like, oh, you're just good at selling, which is a bummer, because I was really hoping this would be great.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, like then just taking that and being like, well, I'm gonna sell like with integrity and the passion and the celebration behind it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, because you can really only control yourself, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else you wanted to add on the like how much to share and what to share?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have any strategies on that, like having people write things down or boundaries or anything?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could do if you want to get really strict with yourself, you could do like a rule and you can create your own rule.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell anyone how much they should post or not post, but just even thinking about like, okay, say for example, business is 60%.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So 60% of my content, I'm sharing value, um, I'm giving value, I'm giving like high quality, you know, advice, whatever, whatever, talking about my my wisdom, my knowledge, my passion.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: 60%, right?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then we've got 20% could be personal, and then another 20%.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is really random, by the way.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of spitballing this out loud.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: This might not people.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other 20% could be like client, like client case studies.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it could even be like that, or you can you can make your own thing, and there's probably you can go online and probably find percentages.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to ever want to tell someone to do a certain percentage because every business's and brands are different, and I don't ever want to say there's this blanket rule.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you do need that level of like guidance, just figure out your own percentage and be like, what is relevant for my audience?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Have they come to me and followed me because they want, you know, loads of advice, loads of high value, and they want to be, you know, connected to my personal brand.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, that's gonna be 60%, and then yeah, 10, 20%, I'm just gonna show up and share what I want to share.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we know that the the majority of our content is tailored towards actually what they want.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you could create yourself a little strategy like that if you feel like it's necessary.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think there's any limits to what you share.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to overshare, then please do.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But just be mindful that your audience is there because they need something for themselves.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're all selfish beings, as much as it's like it hurts to say, but it's true.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're never gonna pay for something, especially something high-ticket, to benefit that person.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna buy it to benefit ourselves.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So just have that in your mind when you're when you're sharing and like what to share.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's no right or wrong answer, whatever feels good to you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to keep a lot of your private life private, and then you're worried about, oh, if I don't share this, is that gonna damage my personal brand?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's also not the case.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I work with a lot of clums and they say, like, you know, I don't want to share my children.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you don't have to.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's you can be a successful personal brand and keep a lot of things private.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you can either go one way or the other.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: You could be an oversharer or you could keep a lot private, but just find what feels good to you and then remember it's all about your community and how you're serving that community as well.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think when you approach it from that way, it's just so much easier.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like another thing clients come to me with is like I feel like I have to share this type of content or this style or genre or whatever, like kind of content, but it's hard for them.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like creating it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not fun.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: It takes hours.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I'm always like, then don't share it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, literally, nobody cares if you're not sharing voiceovers.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody cares if you're not sharing, like honestly, my B-roll content does great.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why would I why why make it harder for myself?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if that's working, why not keep doing that?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's no rules on what you have to be doing.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I say lean into what feels good for you and then it and then monitor if it works.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously there's there's two sides.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to just do loads of what feels good to you but then doesn't work.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about finding the balance.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm the same, like a lot of my clients will be like, Oh, I really don't want to create this Canva caro and you know, being Canva and create a carousel for hours.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, don't.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to go live.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, just go live then.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that feels good and it works for your community, why would you force yourself to sit in Canva for five hours and create a carousel that you everyone can just tell the energy is off anyway, and it's forced.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's about like in terms of formats and content, like the logistics of it, find what actually feels good to you and that actually works for your business, and it will just take trial and error.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I even work with seven-figure clients now who are still figuring this out.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's no perfect do this, do that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's not.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on you, what you enjoy doing, and what actually is well how your community actually responds to it and what is well responded to.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just taking messy action and figuring it out.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's no right or wrong.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I think that that is like something people need to know and understand, and honestly, like they need to start loving it about social media, is like it is going to change, like, and you're not gonna be able to control everything.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people like to blame it on the algorithm, but it's way less about the algorithm and way more about consumer behavior, like because the consumers determine what happens to the algorithm.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just like if you don't come to social media with like a little sense of playfulness, I think you're just gonna feel like burned out and frustrated.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're if you just want it to be easy and automated, like you need to choose a different route, like email or something.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Social media is not gonna be for you if that's what you want.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's not to say like every piece of content has to be like reinventing the wheel or doing anything crazy, but like I do think you need to have a little bit of interest in exploring new types of content, trying something new, like taking a little bit of a risk here and there with your content, or else like maybe a couple things are gonna pop off, and then you're gonna go plateau and you're not gonna have a good time with it.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's just my opinion, though.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, totally agree.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, awesome.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the fourth kind of roadblock we have is people being a multi-passionate, and I actually love that we've saved this one for the last because I think it feeds like perfectly into our flow where people are like, okay, great, like I know what I want to post, I have clarity, I can be consistent, whatever.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: They have all the things, and then they're like, Well, I changed my mind, or I actually enjoy this and this.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: How can I blend all of these together?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me what you think about that.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is yeah, this is a one of my favorite things to talk about, but also one of maybe the most difficult things to talk about because everyone is so different, but I do think there's beauty in growing the personal brand so that then whatever you do decide to launch, generally a lot of your community will be again brought into the person.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have a client right now who is running like a few different Instagram accounts, all very much similar with similar missions, but they the three businesses stand alone, and she's building her personal brand to a point where people then funnel through into these other businesses.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you know, you're well in your right to change your mind.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're all creative beings.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're an entrepreneur, the likelihood is you will change your mind, and that's okay.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people limit themselves to be like, oh, I said I was gonna do this one thing, and now I have to only do this one thing.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can do what you want.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just again bearing in mind, like not to maybe do everything all at once.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I even think back to my journey, right?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I started out as a social media manager.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: In hindsight, I was always mentoring personal brands.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was doing.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was just also creating their content, so I let go of creating the content, and then I went into speaking, and then now I have my podcast and I, you know, all the different things, and I do events, and then now I just had my own first event.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I tried to do every single one of those things on day one, I would have just simply like I just couldn't have done it.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would have actually first because it would have just been too much.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wanted to do events, I know that I want to do retreats.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's other things that I want to do, and even in my future, potentially I'm gonna want to do different things, but it's kind of staggering it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what makes sense first?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: What can I put my energy into first?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially, what am I the most skilled and passionate and confident in?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let me do that first, obviously, where there's a demand.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Then that can keep going.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then with that personal brand, again, people will start to trust you, like you, stick around, they see you as that authority.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you launch something else, nine times out of ten, they're gonna like it, trust it, and move with it because of the reputation that you've built already.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just staggering it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that necessarily answers the question you asked me, but I think we can get really overwhelmed as entrepreneurs if we're multi-passionate and try and do everything all at once, and then it gets hectic and then nothing really sticks because we're trying to do too much.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, let's rein it in, which I know is hard for a lot of entrepreneurs that are creative and want everything yesterday.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Rein it backwards a little bit and just ask yourself what is the first step.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, normally the first step, like I said, is where I feel the most confident, where I'm the most passionate, where there's a demand right now, let me nail that down.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Once that's kind of you know moving and grooving by itself, then I'm gonna go on to something else.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, and sometimes that looks completely different.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you might be a social media manager and be like, I want to launch a fashion brand.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's all creative as well, so it does make sense, but you're allowed to do what you want.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just let's just get something in motion on its own so we don't have to think about 10 million things all at once.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think like something people are afraid of is like if I pivot here and pivot there and pivot here and pivot there, like I'm gonna lose trust.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there's two sides to that.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think, yeah, if you are jumping from thing to thing with no common thread, people are gonna be like, what?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that doesn't that doesn't make sense.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that it can put more strain on you as a creator or business owner because you're like, great, I've nurtured this whole audience and I've built trust with them all for like this thing, and then now I'm gonna switch it so I know I'm gonna lose some people, and then I'm gonna have to rebuild it up another way.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think just like knowing that is good, and then also putting yourself, like this is the whole point of a personal brand, is like when you are the center of it, it's so much easier to do that.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're not starting from zero every time you want to pivot or start something new.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have a baseline of trust of with people because you are like established.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think a lot of what it comes down to is credibility.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, I'm not sure if you're do you know Grace Beverly, the influencer that doesn't sound familiar, no.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, she's in the UK, so I know a few of my US clients know who she is, but if you don't know, just take it with a pinch of salt or have a look afterwards.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, she was an influencer, she's launched a brand called Tala, which is like an athleisure brand, like gym stuff and nice, you know, clothes.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's absolutely huge, right?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because people are obsessed with her.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: She launched Tala, Tala's massive.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: She then launched something called Shreddy, which is about like fitness and well-being.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an app to shred.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then she's recently just launched something called the productivity method, which is like a basically like a diary, and you know, it's good to help you journal and keep on track of being productive, basically.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: The whole point that I'm saying this is that she grew so much trust that kind of whatever she launches makes sense because of who she is.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: So people are like, Yeah, of course I'm gonna buy that thing.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like she nailed Tala, the brand.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: So then when she launched another brand, people are already attracted to it because we already know that she's a credible source, she's already knowledgeable, she already knows, and she's also a body of that work.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then the productivity method, which is like a diary, which is very different, but also still under the kind of the wellness, you know, productivity area, she's a business owner.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: So people are like, Well, I know you're a business owner and I know you're successful.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'm gonna try and see how you're so productive.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if someone was randomly like, oh, I'm a business owner.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Coach with no proof, with no credibility, and then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, now I'm a mindset coach again with no proof, no credibility, is kind of a bit like are you just jumping ship to see where you can make the money or like whatever it is.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if we can follow that, there's actually skill and proof and all the different things and people pivot, then people trust it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think actually a lot of it comes down to credibility.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like if I randomly pivoted to something like, I don't know, something really random, people would be like, What?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if I pivoted to something that made sense and people knew I had that skill or that passion, they'd be like, Oh, I know that Chloe's good at that.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just about asking yourself, am I pivoting to try and chase income?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I pivoting to chase serving people in a different way and following my passion?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a big difference.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like something big about you, just that I've noticed through our conversation, is just like being service first, like service-minded first.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't mean like it definitely doesn't mean that you need to do everything for free or anything like that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just being like having service be the center of your brand.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is the service you're providing?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: What how can you be of service to your audience to fill the gap of whatever they need?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: And when you start there, selling is easier.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: When you start there, building a personal brand is easier because everything comes from a more like authentic place and also just comes from a place that's like tethered.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I have an actual thing.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just followers, it's not just views, it's not just money, it's it's an actual thing that works that people need.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I get this question a lot.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: People say, like, how do you always grow?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how have you always done X, Y, and Z?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do things always work for you?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, people that ask me that don't see the background that I went through.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I always say my answer is I always do what I am best at in that moment.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when I first started in business, I knew that social media management was what I could do at that time.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then leaning into, like I said, more the consulting mentorship, I grew to that point.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I always lean on skill and service, and that is why it sells because people are like, I can see that you're good at it.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: If I just randomly launched something that I wasn't even sure if I could do, I don't think anyone else would trust it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So even though as a personal brand, I know so many people are fixated on sharing more of them or like being an influencer, sharing their morning coffee.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, again, if we want to convert and we want people to trust us and see us as an actual business that that's bringing something that's benefiting people in whatever way, or even a product or service, whatever, we have to show that we're always consistently doing what we know we're good at.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I then created events.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I tried to do an event five years ago, it would have been rubbish because I didn't know I wasn't confident.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: But now I'm like, I know it will be really good.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if I lean into anything else in the future, I know I stand by it 100%.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, I'm only ever gonna do what I know I'm good at, and that's why I convert, and that's why I've consistently grown, and that's why people consistently trust me.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's why when people just randomly start talking about things or creating content in different ways, if they don't trust it or they don't feel confident in it, people can sense that.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, service first, but always leaning into what you're the most confident in and what you're most passionate about because that's what sells.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like this is a just a bonus question for you, but you are so confident.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it doesn't sound like you have imposter syndrome, and it sounds like you have so much clarity on like you're you're very self-aware in the way of like you know what you're good at, you're confident in it, etc.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there are so many people out there that are really good, like they're talented, they have the skill, but they don't have the confidence, or like they they don't even have the clarity on like knowing what it is that they are good at.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: How would you suggest somebody uncover something like that?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a big question.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really good question.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started, I probably didn't have this confidence to be honest.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably grown, but again, like I wouldn't do something or sell something that I didn't feel confident in.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's really about tapping into what comes naturally for you, I think, as well.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people naturally just have an eye for aesthetic content and they are content creators, for example.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, some people just are really good at things and you're like, how are you so good at that thing?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and it makes no sense to anyone else.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're thinking about business, it's like usually we sell what we're the most confident and good in.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I always refer back to school with this, like, you know, there's subjects in school that you just don't want to do, it's usually because you're not good at it, and vice versa, right?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't care about something, you're probably not gonna be good at it because if you were good at it, you'd care about it.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same in business, it's like try and tap into what you feel just comes naturally to you.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is a big conversation.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm talking to a wide audience here.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: If it was someone specific, I'd probably be able to give more of a specific example.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: But try and tap into like what excites you and what you look forward to doing the most in your business.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: As another example, when I was a social media manager, I did not want to um do like the analytics or the DMs.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably wouldn't have been as quote unquote successful as a social media manager if I said, I can do everything for you, I can help you go viral, I can also run your DMs, I can also create content, because I wouldn't have trusted that.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have even trusted what I was saying.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to go all in on personal brand marketing because I was so solid with that.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else, I was like, I think you should outsource to someone else because I don't want to do that, I can't help you go viral and I don't want to run your analytics because it bores me.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: But what I can do is create your really good personal brand marketing strategy and create the content for that.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why it always sucked because I was so confident in that and I knew I was good at it.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just trying to tap into like what skills do I have, what comes more naturally to me, what do I have fun doing?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do I get the best results in?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, what you get the best results in usually is what you're what you love doing the most.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just exploring it and then just knowing that in your business you're allowed to take things away.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: If there's parts to your business where you're like, I actually really don't like doing this and therefore I'm not getting the results, get rid, you know, and just explore, keep, keep getting to know yourself.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I definitely had personal experiences with that, like starting out as a social media manager, because you just start and you just want to, you know, you're like, oh, everyone has these offers where they're doing social media and they're posting and they're engaging and they're doing email marketing and they're they're doing like all of this and they're calling it social media marketing, and it feels like you have to do that in order to compete in the market.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, honestly, it wasn't even, it was just so obvious to me.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I hate posting for clients, I never want to do that.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that is the worst thing ever to me.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care about email marketing, hire somebody else who knows how to do that, you know?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: And like, and created that offer to myself, um, one that made sense for me.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I it's hard because I think like there are coaches and people that put out so much information, like, here's how you have to do it.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, not really, like, actually, you don't have to do it that way.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can just kind of create the offer in the way you want to do it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it also made me think about how sometimes it's hard to see for yourself what you're good at because it's easy for you.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when something feels easy, it feels like why would this be valuable?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if it's so easy, anyone can do it, but it's not easy for everyone.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's easy to you because you're good at it, it's hard for other people because they're not good at it, and that's why they need you.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly that, it's exactly the opposite.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, oh, it's that's obvious, so no one would pay for that.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, no, it's obvious to you because you're good at it.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this with so much love.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of my first social media management clients were women in their 40s or 50s that were great at what they did, but wasn't great at creating their content.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, I was like, Oh, you just need to do this, and they couldn't believe it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, What do you mean?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing that so easily?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, but that just shows they've got their zone of genius and I've got mine, and that's why we make a great team.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really similar with talent, right?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's really good at singing, it probably quite comes quite naturally to them to just sing, and that's why it's so amazing.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of us are like, Wow, how are you so good at effortlessly singing, right?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same sort of thing, and I still have it with my clients today.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like on my mastermind, literally last week, they were like, How are you answering all of our questions so easily?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you make it sound so simple?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, this is what I do.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: You guys have your thing.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's someone in there that does breath work.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to do breath work.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it looks simple for you, and this is my thing, and that's why you're here.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, lean into what comes naturally and feels good to you.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's normally your answer.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that so much.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is there anything else that you want to add or anything that you are selling have coming up that you want to share with the audience?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've got a few things coming up, but I can't say all of them yet.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm doing.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: People do that.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when influencers are like, I'm doing something, and I can't say that's not my intention.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have just launched like a new membership, which is incredible.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I co I'm co-creating, that's absolutely incredible for high-performing women in business.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, there's a few things that I'm that I'm doing and that I'm launching, but yeah, just a little bit more.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I guess my final piece of advice is just try and have fun with your personal brand, try not to take it too seriously.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'll always get good results when you're actually enjoying it.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: People want to be a part of your world if you want to be a part of your world.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't want to be a part of your world, why would anyone pay to be a part of your world?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So just remembering that and trying to just take the action to find the clarity, keep moving forward, keep doing the things, have fun with it, and just be playful.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like business gets to be fun.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, there's going to be times where it's stressful and feels hard and things go wrong, but overall, there's no point running a business that you dread to wake up to or that you struggle in.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: So just try and enjoy it.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you enjoy it, the more people, like I said, want to be a part of it.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and that's currently what I'm doing.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm launching things that I'm obsessed with, I'm launching things that I would want to be a part of, and I think that's why they always do well.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that people can take something from that for their own businesses.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that so much.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I I'm just with you.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like having more fun, I think, would solve pretty much everyone's problems.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you didn't you didn't quit your nine to five, or maybe you didn't quit, maybe you got laid off.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Who who the hell knows?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you didn't leave that world just to put yourself back in that prison, but the prison you created, you know?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like you didn't do that, so I think that's so important.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I can use that reminder all the time too, because you just get in the weeds and then you're like, what am I doing?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: But just making sure your fun is at the forefront.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love that so much.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, me too, me too.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yes, awesome.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna link Chloe's Instagram so you guys can just go follow her and then you'll see like what she's up to and what she's launching, obviously, because we want you to see that.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we're so grateful that you are on today, Chloe.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: We appreciate it, and we're excited to follow along your journey.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've had such a good time.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.