Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / JK & Victor React to Controversial Bok Team & Super Rugby's Future Secured?

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JK & Victor React to Controversial Bok Team & Super Rugby's Future Secured? · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Eben Ejtzebeth is missing, Andre Pollard is not there, Jason Colby is not there.
• 0:05
  Sandin, a lot of youngsters.
• 0:07
  So are you going to play your second side so that you can have an excuse for losing or?
• 0:11
  We focus on the World Cup.
• 0:13
  Depends what we need in that game.
• 0:14
  You're also taking Leicester Fa'anuku as an outside back and as a loose forward and have one less back.
• 0:21
  See, now you're getting me.
• 0:23
  Less backs on the bench.
• 0:24
  Well done, JK.
• 0:26
  So now you've got three competitions running.
• 0:28
  You're into the URC.
• 0:29
  The next week you play Champions Cup or you play Challenge Cup.
• 0:33
  I don't know.
• 0:33
  South African people just want to watch scrumps.
• 0:35
  They don't understand all these different competitions.
• 0:44
  Right, welcome to Ram Hand to Hand Couriers, Rugby Roles.
• 0:47
  And we're a little bit late this week because there's been a lot going on in the last couple of days.
• 0:52
  Teams are being named, competitions are being sorted out.
• 0:55
  So let's start with you, Victor.
• 0:58
  Are you happy with your Springbok team that's been named for this Northern Tour?
• 1:01
  Yeah, it's an interesting team.
• 1:04
  I think if I look at the team, we've said it, Rossi always wants to win, but I think...
• 1:09
  The focus is definitely now on the World Cup coming in.
• 1:14
  I mean, there's a few of our key guys with little niggles that he didn't take with.
• 1:21
  I mean, it's the first ever guy like Eben Ezebeth is missing.
• 1:24
  Andre Pollard is not there.
• 1:26
  Cheslin Colby is not there.
• 1:29
  So, yeah, a few big names.
• 1:31
  And then a few youngsters that he put in.
• 1:34
  Again, I mean, almost in every position.
• 1:37
  If you look at the props, there's Zachary Borthen and Mikunu.
• 1:42
  That's two youngsters.
• 1:43
  Then Jan Hendrik Vessel is the only backup hooker for Malcolm Marks.
• 1:47
  In the locks, he went for Riley Norton.
• 1:49
  That's only 21.
• 1:51
  A guy in the centres like Marcus Miller only played one URC game so far.
• 1:57
  He was a superstar at school level.
• 1:58
  He gets opportunities.
• 2:00
  And then Sebastian de Klerk did really well for the Bulls, getting opportunities.
• 2:05
  So it's nice to see.
• 2:08
  All the big names are still there, but the moment they were a little niggly,
• 2:13
  Rossi didn't take them with.
• 2:15
  So I think the focus is definitely on the World Cup.
• 2:17
  Now, I even forgot the two fly-offs, Ahmed, under 20, and Cholumi, who's also still 20 years old.
• 2:26
  So a lot of youngsters, and it will be interesting if they get opportunity in that first game against Italy.
• 2:33
  So, Victor, does Russie have a selection team with him?
• 2:39
  Like, in New Zealand, we know that Barnsley, the assistant coach, and Sir Graham Henry are the selectors with the head coach.
• 2:50
  So how does Russie go over there?
• 2:53
  Does he have a group of selectors or...?
• 2:56
  No.
• 2:56
  So I think the team management.
• 2:58
  So it will be mostly Rossi picking the team.
• 3:02
  In the old days when Jaak was there, the two of them probably picked the team together.
• 3:06
  I don't know who's his right-hand man.
• 3:09
  So I think his assistant coaches will have input, but I think the final decision lies with Rossi.
• 3:16
  There's no selectors.
• 3:19
  And there's some names there that you're calling out those names, and obviously the South African fans will know them, but
• 3:25
  To the average global rugby fan, there's a lot of new names in that squad.
• 3:31
  Yeah, I mean, there's a few guys.
• 3:33
  I mean, if you look at it, probably the big names.
• 3:35
  I mean, Riley Norton has only played two senior provincial games at Locke.
• 3:41
  He was the captain of the 120s when he was still 19 years old.
• 3:45
  So, I mean, he's a talent.
• 3:50
  I mean, he's not a first choice at his union or his province or his club.
• 3:55
  Same with Marcus Miller.
• 3:57
  Only played one game.
• 3:59
  And then the two youngsters at fly-off, Ahmed, were really good at the World Cup on a 20 in that 10 jersey.
• 4:07
  Really playing well.
• 4:08
  He did well last week when he came off the bench for Sasha as well.
• 4:11
  And Sasha moved to 15th.
• 4:13
  And then there's Giloumi.
• 4:15
  He played a few games for the Sharks at 15.
• 4:18
  Came over to the Bulls now.
• 4:19
  He's keeping Willy Leroux out of the Bulls team at the moment.
• 4:23
  But I see they picked him as a fly-off and not as a full-back.
• 4:26
  But I know he can play fly-off as well.
• 4:29
  I think it's just us, Ricardo.
• 4:31
  It's just us down here in the Southern Hemisphere that don't know these players because if you're in the Northern Hemisphere, you're watching the URC, you're seeing these players play, you know, and that's...
• 4:40
  But some of these guys, J.K., have played like one game, three games in URC.
• 4:44
  Yeah, some of them, I think there's about four that haven't played five games yet, senior provincial rugby.
• 4:49
  So it's out-and-out schoolboy, under 20 stars that he picked.
• 4:56
  It's almost like...
• 4:57
  They're not first choice at the unions.
• 4:58
  Yeah.
• 4:59
  This is the last big tour, really, before we get into next year, World Cup year.
• 5:04
  So for Russ, he's getting a chance to have a look at some of these guys and spend a good four or five weeks with them.
• 5:11
  A little bit the same with the All Blacks, JK.
• 5:13
  The All Blacks named this week.
• 5:15
  And there's, what, nine, 10, 11 frontliners missing.
• 5:19
  And so given the opportunity to bring in some newer guys, give them some time and a couple of surprises, really, in the All Blacks.
• 5:29
  I didn't think so.
• 5:30
  I didn't think so at all, mate.
• 5:31
  I thought... What about Jamie Hanna over Sam Derry, Patrick Polotto?
• 5:36
  Yeah, I think that's probably the most interesting one for me.
• 5:41
  I think both Sam and Patrick would be disappointed because they went in Africa and they actually played a part in the Test matches.
• 5:49
  So they'll be disappointed.
• 5:51
  But I think what they're saying about Hannah is he plays six.
• 5:56
  So I don't know if they're looking for someone...
• 6:00
  to play six, see if he can play lock.
• 6:02
  I do think that this is the last opportunity.
• 6:04
  I think you got that right.
• 6:06
  Although Dave Rennie did say that, you know, he's sort of settled on what he wants to do.
• 6:15
  So for me, you know, I didn't think there was too many surprises, lots of injuries.
• 6:19
  That lock was probably the only real surprise for me.
• 6:22
  I'll check another one at you, JK.
• 6:24
  Imani Narawa.
• 6:26
  Chief, Thihaki, Victor Hedibim.
• 6:28
  Yeah, I mean, Imani has been sort of on the fringes, right?
• 6:33
  And you're also taking Leicester Fa'anuku as an outside back and as a loose forward.
• 6:40
  That's probably the biggest talking point.
• 6:43
  But I think what they've seen from Shea is enough.
• 6:47
  I think they think that he's got...
• 6:51
  a little bit of X factor.
• 6:52
  And I know Imani was good, but I think what they'll do is they'll go away and they'll have five weeks and this will be the decision moving forward.
• 7:02
  You know, you're talking about some of these fringe guys.
• 7:04
  And when you're looking for a fringe guy, you're also looking for attitude, someone that's going to work hard regardless of getting in the squad.
• 7:11
  You know, they're probably not starters.
• 7:12
  They're the guys that you need to be really towing the line from a team point of view.
• 7:18
  I think the interesting thing for me is what we're going to do up front, whether we're going to start playing a bit more size.
• 7:26
  In Suala Mao and Palisilo Tosi, I think they're big men.
• 7:33
  And people have been asking me, Victor, what do we need to do moving forward if we're going to meet South Africa in a game?
• 7:41
  And I think, you know, for me,
• 7:44
  sometimes we need to look for some size to combat South Africa, especially up front.
• 7:50
  And some of these young boys, um, Soala and Palisilo, they're, they're big men, mate.
• 7:57
  You know, they're like your South African men, they're big men.
• 7:59
  So I'm hoping that they're going to, um,
• 8:03
  get some opportunities to play and start test matches up north, because I do think we need their size.
• 8:09
  Are they the best in their position at the moment?
• 8:12
  Possibly not, but I think we've got to start thinking about size.
• 8:16
  And the others, you know, Bauer, De Groot, Newell, they're probably better scrummages than them at the moment, but I just think there's this size thing that we need to think about when we're playing South Africa, and that's just my amateur look at it.
• 8:33
  But yeah, I think besides that, Richie Mwanga is carrying a bit of an injury, but they're taking him anyway.
• 8:38
  So that sort of tells you a bit of a sign.
• 8:41
  Bowdoin Barrett's definitely a full-back, so we can forget about him at 10.
• 8:44
  I think Damien is probably the guy that they're talking about.
• 8:48
  And they've named Rico Iwani as an outside back rather than a centre, which I thought was interesting.
• 8:56
  So, Victor, you're a very wise man.
• 8:58
  You've got the ability to look into the future.
• 9:01
  First of all, let's have a look at your Ram Hand and Couriers.
• 9:06
  Who's the person that's going to deliver for the Springboks on this tour?
• 9:11
  Yeah, I think I've got the team in front of me.
• 9:14
  And like I said, there's quite a few guys here.
• 9:18
  that needs to have an impact.
• 9:21
  Jasper Visser has been unbelievable for us this whole year.
• 9:25
  We need him, especially if you look at all the other names.
• 9:30
  I think he's one guy that really needs to carry, especially with the guy, without the guy like Eben in that second row.
• 9:37
  In the backs, Damien Willems has been in outstanding form as well.
• 9:41
  But I'm going back to the scrums, boys.
• 9:43
  He's in South Africa.
• 9:44
  Ram hand-to-hand.
• 9:46
  career man that's going to perform Wilco Lowe.
• 9:49
  It was actually unbelievable.
• 9:51
  The Stormers and the Sharks played against these other three weeks ago.
• 9:55
  And it was Wilco Lowe and Nkunu against Ox Nshe and Thomas de Toi.
• 10:01
  And Wilco just killed them.
• 10:03
  So I think Wilco Lowe going over, he's looking forward to Ireland, he's looking forward to see France.
• 10:10
  And I just think he's going to, especially on those wet fields, he's going to have such a big impact.
• 10:17
  JK, look how happy he gets when he talks about scrum.
• 10:20
  I know.
• 10:21
  It's a different person.
• 10:23
  He's weird, mate.
• 10:23
  He's weird.
• 10:24
  As soon as he's talking, and then he starts talking about the front row, and then he's like, look at him.
• 10:31
  But that's what rugby is about, scrumming, mauling.
• 10:34
  Come on, boys.
• 10:35
  That's rugby.
• 10:36
  We're not playing touch rugby with sevens.
• 10:40
  Mate, it's a 15-man game, all right?
• 10:41
  It's a 15-man game.
• 10:42
  You've got to take into consideration outside backs sometimes rather than standing out there while you guys maul.
• 10:50
  No, Victor agrees.
• 10:51
  He thinks it's a 15-man game.
• 10:54
  He just wants 13 guys to watch the front row.
• 10:57
  Yeah.
• 10:57
  Or 12 guys.
• 10:58
  12 guys.
• 10:59
  Sorry about my maths.
• 10:59
  Well, yeah.
• 11:01
  Yeah.
• 11:02
  Yeah.
• 11:02
  So, JK, I'll put it on you, you know.
• 11:06
  Obviously, you probably won't go with the scrum, but looking forward at this tour, who's going to be your Ram hand-to-hand couriers?
• 11:13
  Who's the person that's going to deliver for the All Blacks on this Northern Tour?
• 11:17
  Well, my Ram hand-to-hand couriers guy is really Lester Whaanuku.
• 11:23
  I just think, you know, the Springboks have been doing it for a little bit, but these hybrid players are a real fascination for me.
• 11:32
  And, you know, before he got injured, you know, he was playing loose forward and he was going exceptionally well.
• 11:40
  So I think he's going to deliver there.
• 11:42
  I actually want to see him...
• 11:46
  used as that.
• 11:47
  So I would love to see him on tour to be on there as a loose forward, but also love to see him putting on one of the outside backs.
• 11:55
  And it also changes the way that we can use our bench, right?
• 12:00
  So we can put him on the bench and have one less back, which does help
• 12:05
  if you want to make a report.
• 12:08
  Less backs on the bench.
• 12:09
  Well done, JK.
• 12:11
  Getting to it.
• 12:15
  It's not less backs on the bench.
• 12:17
  It's a hybrid player that actually come from the backs, mate.
• 12:21
  He's a winger that's transferred into the loose forwards.
• 12:24
  Yeah, because you could see it two ways.
• 12:26
  You could see it Victor's way, or you could see it that the forwards need help from the backs.
• 12:30
  So the backs are now moving into the forwards.
• 12:32
  Of course.
• 12:33
  Of course, mate, because that's why we invented sevens.
• 12:36
  That's why we invented sevens, to get rid of them.
• 12:38
  They annoy us sometimes, you know?
• 12:43
  Right.
• 12:44
  So who's your first game, Victor?
• 12:47
  Italy.
• 12:48
  So we start in Italy, then we play France, then we play Ireland.
• 12:52
  So, yeah, I think easier game to get into it, but then two very tough games.
• 12:58
  Yeah.
• 12:59
  So of those three games, let's sit down.
• 13:02
  You're sitting down with your clippies and coke.
• 13:05
  What's going to be the clip drift moment of the tour?
• 13:08
  Which game are you predicting is going to be the game of the tour?
• 13:14
  Yeah, Kip Drift, game of the tour, must be France.
• 13:19
  I mean, we won't get a seaside like you guys got in New Zealand.
• 13:23
  We'll
• 13:24
  play the full strength side in Paris.
• 13:28
  So, yeah, it's going to be a huge game.
• 13:31
  I know they still hate South Africa because of the previous World Cup where we became double World Cup champs, of course.
• 13:37
  There it is.
• 13:40
  It's going to be tough.
• 13:42
  It's going to be tough and it's going to be a huge game.
• 13:44
  And I mean, physically they can stand up to South Africa.
• 13:48
  We've seen it.
• 13:49
  So, I think that's the game that's really going to deliver and
• 13:53
  Yeah, it's late in the evening, so there will be a lot of trippies and cola used while watching that game.
• 14:01
  I think so.
• 14:02
  Are you going to play your second side so that you can have an excuse for losing, or are you going to play your top side against France?
• 14:09
  Victor?
• 14:10
  I don't know.
• 14:12
  We focus on the World Cup.
• 14:13
  Depends what we need in that game.
• 14:15
  As long as we become triple world champs next year, that's the only thing that matters.
• 14:22
  Go and have a clippies and coke, mate.
• 14:24
  Go and have a clippies and coke and stir it with your finger.
• 14:26
  I'm still on the coke.
• 14:28
  I'm still good.
• 14:29
  There's a danger, actually, though.
• 14:31
  You put so much into that French game.
• 14:35
  You've got Ireland around the corner, you know?
• 14:36
  I mean, that's a tough tour.
• 14:40
  It is.
• 14:41
  I mean, playing the two best teams in Europe over there, so it's not going to be easy.
• 14:46
  But again, I mean, I think we saw it in the greatest rivalry tour where they really went for those three games.
• 14:56
  And it's like a World Cup final.
• 14:57
  You're getting to quarterfinal.
• 14:59
  You need to win three in a row.
• 15:01
  So I don't know.
• 15:02
  I think he'll give a few of these youngsters opportunity against Italy.
• 15:06
  And then they will probably kind of, okay, here's two tough games in a row.
• 15:11
  We need to go out there.
• 15:12
  We need two and two in a row.
• 15:13
  Yeah.
• 15:14
  And while he's doing it, he might even throw one or two of those youngsters in with some of the senior guys to see if they can perform at that level.
• 15:22
  Because at this stage, a lot of these youngsters, if I think about a World Cup squad, I don't think they'll actually be there.
• 15:28
  But let's say they stand up against a France or an Ireland and they play a fantastic game.
• 15:33
  Then they might just play them into that World Cup squad.
• 15:36
  Right, JK, just reverting to the All Black Tour.
• 15:40
  You know, you start with Scotland, then Wales and England, I think.
• 15:46
  What's going to be the Clipdrift moment of the Tour?
• 15:48
  What game is going to be the defining game?
• 15:51
  England at Twickenham.
• 15:54
  We lost there last year, if you remember.
• 15:57
  So that'll be the clip drift sort of moment for me.
• 16:01
  You know, you don't like to lose at Twickenham.
• 16:03
  I think England are hard to beat there.
• 16:05
  Scotland is a bit of a, Scotland is, you know, Scotland really get up for us.
• 16:09
  So that's going to be hard because, you know, we're flying over there, we arrive, you know, it's on the other side of the world.
• 16:16
  So that's always a hard one.
• 16:17
  But I think, yeah, the English game at Twickenham, we owe them one.
• 16:23
  And then if South Africa lose one of their games, then it sets it up for that finals weekend, you know, for who's going to win that new cup.
• 16:35
  I don't know if anyone cares about that at the moment, but I'm sure, Victor, do you care about that cup, that final weekend or no?
• 16:43
  I don't know.
• 16:44
  It will always be nice to win another cup, but I really believe the focus is on the World Cup.
• 16:50
  Yeah.
• 16:50
  Just for you guys, and I see JK doesn't watch URC and the Champions Cup, but the Scottish teams are actually on the top of the table.
• 17:01
  They're doing really well in both competitions.
• 17:04
  Edinburgh is unbeaten in the URC.
• 17:07
  Glasgow has only lost once.
• 17:09
  So the Scottish team might actually be, I think, a bigger challenge than England.
• 17:15
  England aren't doing great in the championships.
• 17:18
  The players are going at each other.
• 17:20
  I don't know if you guys have seen the Northampton Leicester game, where the English players just into each other.
• 17:27
  And it's so funny.
• 17:28
  I mean, South Africa is in a place where you can just see the springboks, even when they play each other, when they run off, it's like almost armed around the body of the other player.
• 17:38
  There's a lot of respect where the English guys are going for each other.
• 17:41
  So it feels like there's just something going on in that camp.
• 17:47
  But, I mean, the Scottish two teams are really playing great and they're playing nice rugby.
• 17:51
  J.K., you will enjoy, actually, them.
• 17:54
  They do use the ball quite a bit.
• 17:57
  Yeah, well, I think, look, I was there last year when we were up 17-0 after sort of 20 minutes and they came back and, you know, they nearly beat us.
• 18:04
  And I think Gregor has done a great job.
• 18:08
  I don't think it's going to be easy by any means, but what I think...
• 18:13
  What I think we'll do is we'll play our top side against Scotland, and then I think we'll give a few guys a bit of a go against Wales.
• 18:21
  I always remember talking to Wayne Smith about Northern Tour, and he said, Northern Tour, you've got to give everyone a crack, and you've got to pick a game as one of your targets.
• 18:29
  And so I think that's what will happen.
• 18:31
  I think he'll play his best side against Scotland because they deserve that respect.
• 18:37
  Wales, I think he'll make quite a few changes, and then England will be our top side again.
• 18:44
  Just going back to that bit of argy-bargy, Victor, there was one player that was not surprisingly in the middle of it, Henry Pollock.
• 18:54
  He's always in the middle.
• 18:55
  It looks like even his own teammates don't like him that much.
• 18:59
  So, yeah, I still think he's a great player, but there is something about him that even the players playing with him for England don't.
• 19:09
  can't stand.
• 19:10
  So, yeah, it's always interesting when he's on the pitch.
• 19:12
  But I must say, Leicester and Northampton is always I think Leicester is like the bullies of the Premier League and Northampton is the fancy boys playing it around.
• 19:24
  And I mean, they just came out, they just bullied them and dominated them.
• 19:28
  It's actually funny, Northampton and Bath, the two top teams in the last two years in the Premiership are actually struggling a little bit.
• 19:38
  Did you see that, JK?
• 19:39
  You didn't see the...
• 19:41
  I saw the highlights of them pushing each other up the stairs.
• 19:43
  What do they call it?
• 19:44
  Stair gate or something.
• 19:47
  Yeah.
• 19:47
  I love that.
• 19:48
  I think it's great.
• 19:49
  I love seeing that sort of stuff.
• 19:50
  You know, I think it's all part of the game and we should, you know, we should celebrate that, you know, guys are competitive.
• 19:57
  They want to win.
• 19:58
  They annoy each other.
• 19:59
  You know, and I think one of the beauties of rugby is, you know, if you can shake hands afterwards and have a beer, that's what it's all about.
• 20:05
  Yeah.
• 20:06
  Have either of you ever been in that situation where in a provincial game or whatever you've had a bit of a scrap with someone and then the next week or a couple of weeks later you're in camp with that player?
• 20:19
  I had a Curry Cup final where Osti runned, so I cleaned him from the side, and he wanted to play.
• 20:25
  Luckily, he missed.
• 20:26
  I think he would have killed me.
• 20:28
  And the next morning, we got together with a spring box, and we were like, you know, hearing together.
• 20:33
  And we both like, no, it was nothing.
• 20:34
  We were just playing with each other.
• 20:36
  It was just a joke.
• 20:37
  So they let us go, and we could play the next weekend.
• 20:40
  So, yeah, those things happened.
• 20:44
  Yeah.
• 20:44
  Brilliant.
• 20:45
  Hey, just before we go, JK, there's some news that's just come out that New Zealand rugby's decided that their way forward is to stick with super rugby and MPC.
• 20:55
  I know you're a big fan of tribalism and traditionalism.
• 21:00
  What are your thoughts on that news?
• 21:03
  Yeah, I thought it was a bit predictable.
• 21:05
  So I thought that was predictable.
• 21:07
  I think it's because of our governance, it's too hard to change.
• 21:10
  So, you know, I think the hand that feeds all of rugby is the All Blacks.
• 21:17
  So the pathway, I understand.
• 21:20
  I think what they have said and what I'm really interested in is the side that we need to engage our fans better.
• 21:27
  I still think they need to create a competition like a European Cup
• 21:32
  where the money goes to the super rugby sides.
• 21:35
  I think we need to create alternative funding and we do need to re-engage with the fan.
• 21:41
  And I think to re-engage with the fan, we need to show more courage and go against world rugby and start creating a better spectacle down here, you know, with some...
• 21:54
  rules that will speed the game up.
• 21:56
  So yeah, I think it was a bit predictable.
• 21:58
  I get why they've done it.
• 22:00
  And now we've just got to get them behind it.
• 22:02
  But we do need an alternative competition that is going to excite people.
• 22:05
  We need to get South Africa back in.
• 22:07
  So if that's the super rugby sides playing against
• 22:11
  a Japanese side, a team from America, three or four South African sides, then so be it.
• 22:17
  But we do need to create some more income so we're not reliant on the All Blacks so much.
• 22:22
  I did notice also that Steve Lancaster said if you're playing in competitions, you could be selected.
• 22:28
  I need to dig into that and understand what that means, whether that's a little bit of possibly something that might...
• 22:37
  mean that the All Blacks, if they're playing within a competition like that, that they can be selected.
• 22:43
  So that's my thoughts on it, Ricardo.
• 22:45
  What do you think of it?
• 22:45
  Because you're just as passionate as me about this.
• 22:50
  Oh, look, it's not a surprise.
• 22:53
  When you get a group of people in a room that are involved in Super Rugby and MPC, then the likelihood is that the Super Rugby and MPC is going to be the end product.
• 23:02
  And, you know, it does provide a good pathway to all blacks.
• 23:06
  And I think what you said is the key is, you know, and it was mentioned in the press release, that they're going to put some real effort into fan engagement.
• 23:13
  So I'm really excited to see what that is going to be because that is crucial.
• 23:17
  Um...
• 23:17
  But I think it's the official position of the rivals show that we want to have some way of New Zealand sides playing South African sides more regularly.
• 23:27
  I think the mistake, Ricardo, and you and I are aligned on this, so I know you won't mind me saying it.
• 23:34
  The first thing you need to do is get the product right.
• 23:37
  And our game when it's played well, like it was in South Africa, um, you know, and our game when it's free flowing and the refs do their job and the TMO does their job.
• 23:48
  Lots of scrums.
• 23:49
  It's a great game.
• 23:50
  But the majority of games, um,
• 23:53
  sometimes can be as boring as batshit so the first thing you need to do is get your on-field product right and that will help engage the fans and then we need to be more fan-centric I think we are a little bit political centric and a little bit player centric which is fine but we need to make sure that we become fan-centric you're okay Victor everything's all right in South Africa
• 24:17
  Yeah, we're all right, but we also miss, I mean, the New Zealand teams.
• 24:21
  I worked at one of the games two weeks ago where the Bulls played Stade Francais.
• 24:27
  I think there was only like 15,000 people there.
• 24:30
  I mean, in the old days when we played the Blues or we played the Crusaders at Loftus, there was 35,000, 40,000 people for the game.
• 24:39
  So our fans are still struggling to jump between competitions.
• 24:44
  It's funny because we've also used always Curry Cup, Super Rugby, like almost your NPC and the one finish and then it's the other one.
• 24:51
  So now you've got three competitions running.
• 24:53
  You're into the URC.
• 24:54
  The next week you play Champions Cup or you play Challenge Cup.
• 24:58
  Then it's back to URC.
• 24:59
  I don't know.
• 25:01
  South African people just want to watch scrumps.
• 25:02
  They don't understand all these different competitions.
• 25:05
  Brilliant.
• 25:09
  Let's finish on that.
• 25:12
  I want to talk about – I want to ask the world of rugby a question.
• 25:20
  So do we think that we need to speed up our game?
• 25:27
  And do we think that when people go down with an injury that's not really injury, do we think that is cheating?
• 25:35
  How do we stop?
• 25:35
  How do we speed up our game?
• 25:38
  I don't know.
• 25:40
  It's difficult.
• 25:41
  Let's not come up the answer now.
• 25:42
  Yeah.
• 25:44
  Champions Cup, we're playing in South Africa at 2 o'clock in the afternoon at Loftus, 35 degrees.
• 25:51
  And the other teams, every time there's a break, someone is on the ground.
• 25:54
  But, I mean, how do you stop it?
• 25:55
  How do you say to someone, listen, you don't have a neck injury or you don't have a knock?
• 26:00
  But that's for the next episode, J.K. Yeah.
• 26:05
  Why don't we leave the people in the comments come up with the answers instead of you coming up with the answers?
• 26:10
  Yes.
• 26:11
  Give us a few options we can discuss.
• 26:15
  Yeah, give us some questions.
• 26:16
  So the basic question is, do you think we need to speed up the game?
• 26:20
  And if you do, how do you suggest we do it?
• 26:23
  That's another episode.
• 26:23
  Well, you changed my question, Ricardo.
• 26:25
  That wasn't my question.
• 26:26
  I said we need to speed up the game.
• 26:28
  No, well, what if people disagree with you?
• 26:31
  Well, they can't.
• 26:32
  Only Victor can.
• 26:35
  Right.
• 26:35
  No, you're right.
• 26:36
  Good question.
• 26:36
  I'm kidding.
• 26:37
  You can't disagree with JK.
• 26:40
  That's important.
• 26:41
  I've learned that through experience.
• 26:43
  All right.
• 26:43
  We better let you go, Victor.
• 26:45
  Thanks very much, and we look forward to next week.
• 26:47
  We start getting into tour.
• 26:48
  Always lucky to see you.
• 26:49
  So another episode of Ram Hand-to-Hand Careers Rugby Rivals.