Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Can Filmmaking Change Lives? Exploring Indi Casa's Moving Journey, EO83

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Can Filmmaking Change Lives? Exploring Indi Casa's Moving Journey, EO83 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Jacob: Welcome to the Mood Podcast.
• 0:02
  Matt Jacob: I'm covering the art of conversation through the lens of photography and creativity, one frame at a time.
• 0:08
  Matt Jacob: I'm your host, Matt Jacob.
• 0:09
  Matt Jacob: Thank you so much for joining me in this episode.
• 0:13
  Matt Jacob: And today I'm joined by Indy Kasser, a filmmaker and photographer whose work bridges the gap between visual storytelling and commercial videography.
• 0:22
  Matt Jacob: His upcoming documentary, Indyquay, takes us deep into the heart of his life story, offering a raw, unfiltered look and expose into his search for his family.
• 0:33
  Matt Jacob: Through stunning cinematography and a deeply immersive approach, Indie captures not just the beauty of human kindness, but the complex narratives that unfold within humanity itself.
• 0:44
  Matt Jacob: But the complex narratives that unfold within humanity itself.
• 0:45
  Matt Jacob: In this conversation we explore his journey into documentary filmmaking, the challenges of telling stories in extreme environments and the emotional and ethical responsibility of capturing truth on camera.
• 0:57
  Matt Jacob: So I hope you enjoy.
• 0:59
  Matt Jacob: And here he is, Indy Kassa.
• 1:01
  Matt Jacob: Indy Kassa, Welcome to the Moo Podcast.
• 1:14
  Indi Casa: Thank you, Indy is short for Indyquay, yes it is actually, but I discovered that not very long time ago.
• 1:24
  Indi Casa: Yeah, what does Ndikwe mean?
• 1:25
  Indi Casa: Ndikwe, yeah, it means as long as there is life, you can go any heights.
• 1:30
  Indi Casa: It's like a Igbo dialect from Nigeria.
• 1:33
  Indi Casa: Okay, where are you from Nigeria?
• 1:37
  Matt Jacob: originally Okay, yeah, what brought you here?
• 1:39
  Matt Jacob: Oh, here in Bali.
• 1:41
  Indi Casa: Yeah, life, your name, my name yeah, life your name, my name yeah, exactly.
• 1:46
  Indi Casa: No, actually I came to Bali because nine years ago I used to be here for one year.
• 1:54
  Indi Casa: I followed my ex-wife and we moved here in Bali because her family was living here and I spent one year here and it changed my life completely.
• 2:10
  Indi Casa: I feel like Bali made me who I am today.
• 2:11
  Indi Casa: And then after that, I moved back to Switzerland, where I come from, and since then I always had Bali in my mind and I knew that one day I would come back in Bali when the time would be perfect.
• 2:29
  Indi Casa: And yeah, a year ago I was like yeah, let's go back to bali.
• 2:31
  Indi Casa: Now I'm an independent filmmaker and I want to have this lifestyle that I really like, which is the life, the lifestyle that I can have here in bali.
• 2:41
  Matt Jacob: That's why now I'm here nice man, let's rewind a little bit and tell us how you got into filmmaking.
• 2:49
  Matt Jacob: Like what, what exactly do you do within filmmaking?
• 2:52
  Matt Jacob: But actually, more importantly, why do you do it?
• 2:55
  Matt Jacob: What is it?
• 2:55
  Matt Jacob: Where does that passion come from?
• 2:57
  Matt Jacob: What is it about filmmaking, photography, creative arts that really gets your blood running um, I think as long as I can remember, I was always into visual.
• 3:11
  Indi Casa: Even when I was a teenager, I had my computer.
• 3:15
  Indi Casa: I really enjoyed editing photos and when it was possible to film, even with the vintage camera, I used to also make videos for my friends.
• 3:26
  Indi Casa: And I was the kind of guy like every time we go somewhere, I was the one who was going to bring a camera and film stuff and come up the next week with a music video, because at the time I was using the music that I like and I was just putting some images together and show it to my friends.
• 3:44
  Indi Casa: And I was doing that for fun for, yeah, for a very long time.
• 3:50
  Indi Casa: And uh, but I never thought that it would be become my job one day.
• 3:55
  Indi Casa: And uh, this is how Bali actually changed everything, because when I took the one sabbatical year and moved to bali nine years ago eight or nine years ago I had um one year just to focus on things that I enjoyed doing and video course.
• 4:17
  Indi Casa: It was something that I I really enjoyed doing and I that time I had a like a drone the first DJI drone, do you remember?
• 4:27
  Matt Jacob: that Mavic?
• 4:28
  Matt Jacob: Was it Mavic?
• 4:29
  Indi Casa: or just Before Mavic, okay, phantom.
• 4:32
  Matt Jacob: Ah, okay, the big one, the big one, white one, the white one.
• 4:35
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 4:37
  Indi Casa: So I came, I came here with this and there were not a lot of people having drone at that time and I started to make video.
• 4:46
  Indi Casa: I um I don't know how to say that making video from aerial, yeah, aerial, yeah, video um, this is, I think, where I started to get paid for making videos, right?
• 5:01
  Indi Casa: So it's like, oh, actually I can, I can make money from what I'm passionate about, and I started to hire camera from people and making video for for some gym here, for weddings, and uh, yeah, and I actually never stopped doing that until today wow, incredible.
• 5:21
  Matt Jacob: um, tell us, wow, incredible.
• 5:22
  Matt Jacob: Tell us when you actually first realized that you were good, right, you had something.
• 5:30
  Matt Jacob: Was it that moment when you started to get paid, and what did that kind of commercial journey look like?
• 5:36
  Matt Jacob: So you realized you started oh, I can get paid for this.
• 5:39
  Matt Jacob: Did you then really kind of dive into it and take it further and not go back to your job?
• 5:45
  Matt Jacob: Or was it just, like always, a little hobby that you could get pocket money for?
• 5:50
  Indi Casa: At first I think it was more like a hobby that I can get paid for, but at the same time, I knew that I wanted this to become my job.
• 6:00
  Indi Casa: So I also knew that it's going to take time.
• 6:04
  Indi Casa: So at the time I was just exploring a little bit and I don't know if I can say that I was good.
• 6:13
  Indi Casa: But with the feedback that I get from people that watch what I was doing, they were like oh, you were actually pretty good.
• 6:19
  Indi Casa: I like the way you cut the images together and we like the eye that you have, the way you see the world, and I was like, oh, maybe I have something.
• 6:28
  Indi Casa: But even though I actually really enjoyed doing that, so I just didn't want it to stop and I actually spent one year watching YouTube videos every day and trying things.
• 6:43
  Indi Casa: And then when some people just hire me just to go somewhere and and film some story, and I was like, wow, it's actually something I would like to do more and I started to make vlogs also travel videos, things like that.
• 6:59
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, and yeah, the rest is history.
• 7:01
  Matt Jacob: You mentioned earlier that Bali was it's kind of made you who you are today.
• 7:08
  Matt Jacob: Now you have you have such a rich up and down roller coaster history, which we're gonna we're gonna get into later in terms of your, your, your life, your personal life, um, and it's interesting, you said that bali kind of made you who you are today.
• 7:23
  Matt Jacob: But who is that who?
• 7:26
  Matt Jacob: Who are you today?
• 7:27
  Matt Jacob: Oh, today, and how has Bali influenced?
• 7:29
  Indi Casa: that.
• 7:29
  Indi Casa: Okay, today I'm happy to say that I'm an independent filmmaker.
• 7:36
  Indi Casa: I've been doing this for eight years and now I'm just transitioning to to become more like a documentary filmmaker.
• 7:47
  Indi Casa: So, yeah, I can say that today I'm an artist and I'm really proud about the journey that I took and all the risks that I took also just to create my own path in life and try always to get better on what I'm doing.
• 8:10
  Indi Casa: So, yeah, I mean I still focus on my goals, but sometimes I think it's nice just to look back and realize that everything I have done for the past few years it's something that's eight years ago.
• 8:27
  Indi Casa: I would love to, to be able to, to become someone like I I am today.
• 8:34
  Indi Casa: So today I'm just a documentary filmmaker.
• 8:39
  Matt Jacob: You're not just a documentary filmmaker.
• 8:40
  Matt Jacob: Who are you as a person, though?
• 8:41
  Matt Jacob: Who?
• 8:42
  Matt Jacob: Who tell us?
• 8:42
  Matt Jacob: Tell us a little bit, little bit more about who you are as a man, as a man.
• 8:48
  Indi Casa: I am a father.
• 8:50
  Indi Casa: I am also a person that I have been adopted when I was a kid, from Togo, and what else I can tell you more.
• 9:09
  Matt Jacob: Give us a, give us a peek behind the curtains as to your daily life.
• 9:13
  Matt Jacob: Right, you have your family and you you've kind of settled down here in bali.
• 9:18
  Matt Jacob: What do you do?
• 9:19
  Matt Jacob: What do you?
• 9:20
  Matt Jacob: What do you like to do?
• 9:21
  Matt Jacob: Let's just push filmmaking aside.
• 9:22
  Matt Jacob: What do you believe in?
• 9:23
  Matt Jacob: What are your?
• 9:24
  Matt Jacob: What are your?
• 9:24
  Matt Jacob: What are your values?
• 9:25
  Matt Jacob: What are your kind of philosophies within what you want to do, maybe your goals?
• 9:30
  Matt Jacob: What do you want to do with your creative skills in life?
• 9:34
  Indi Casa: Oh, okay, okay, Uh, actually, I am in, uh, a period of my life right now when I'm questioning a little bit everything.
• 9:43
  Indi Casa: Um, because I today my goal.
• 9:48
  Indi Casa: I would like to use what I'm doing as a voice to make some change in, uh in the society, in this world.
• 9:56
  Indi Casa: Um, so, uh, I think that's why also, I it bring me to documentary, because my goal now is to try to find a way to actually connect humans again and also connect humans with nature, and I would like to do more meaningful stuff.
• 10:13
  Indi Casa: So I think that's why, also, I'm here in Bali, because I wanted to be a little bit aware from everything I was doing in Switzerland, to have some space to think a little bit more and brainstorm and find a goal.
• 10:34
  Indi Casa: Yeah, I would like to find the why I'm doing this, because, okay, can I can get paid when I'm making video, I can, I can, I can live by doing what I'm doing.
• 10:49
  Indi Casa: But I want more.
• 10:51
  Indi Casa: I, I want people.
• 10:55
  Indi Casa: Actually, I, I want to use that tool for something meaningful.
• 11:01
  Indi Casa: This is why I actually here and I'm here now just to to find out how I can really help and create something that can be impactful in a positive way and, specifically, what do you do?
• 11:14
  Matt Jacob: you know yet what type of meaningful you want to pursue, like, because I mean, it could be the environment, it could be, could be orphanages.
• 11:24
  Matt Jacob: It could be the environment, it could be, could be orphanages right, it could be third world poverty.
• 11:27
  Matt Jacob: It could be plastic, whatever politics and war.
• 11:30
  Matt Jacob: And you know, have you?
• 11:32
  Matt Jacob: Where's that kind of questioning that you're doing?
• 11:35
  Matt Jacob: Where is that leading you at the moment?
• 11:36
  Matt Jacob: Actually, I don't know yet.
• 11:39
  Matt Jacob: You have a daughter, a beautiful daughter.
• 11:42
  Matt Jacob: Hopefully I'll meet one day yeah, you must think, that must be at the top of your mind, exactly the next generation, your, your family, how you can help.
• 11:52
  Indi Casa: True, yeah, yeah, exactly um, but I have to find, I have an idea because I actually I want to also to find a way to how to we can protect the, the, the hurts and uh, but also when we we hear about everything that happened in this world nowadays, yeah, I need to find a way how I can actually bring something positive and make some change, because because I think, yeah, I have a voice and you just have to find how it will come.
• 12:30
  Indi Casa: Because I trust the universe, I trust someone, I'm always lucky in my life and if I am on the right path, I will cross the right people or story, and I'm going to, I'm going to find out which direction I'm going to take.
• 12:51
  Matt Jacob: I think your um your humility and how you're describing your luck is what draws people to you.
• 12:57
  Matt Jacob: I think you definitely have a voice because people people like you, people can connect with you.
• 13:03
  Matt Jacob: But also the fact that you said you're lucky.
• 13:06
  Matt Jacob: When we look at your checkered history and the unluck that you've, or the bad luck I should say that you've had throughout your whole life.
• 13:14
  Matt Jacob: You know, from losing a father, losing your mother, eventually getting orphaned, then getting adopted, and then car crashes and moving countries and know all of the, all of the, the years that you had of finding out really who you are really up until this day and up until the documentary that, and then your quest to to find your family, which we'll talk about soon.
• 13:38
  Matt Jacob: Then there was a quote that I think you opened the documentary with, which was life leaves marks etched within us, and it was so powerful because we look at your life and you have so many scars right.
• 13:52
  Matt Jacob: How, how have you always found a way to to have a smile on your face and be positive and and feel like you?
• 14:01
  Matt Jacob: You have luck, not bad luck.
• 14:04
  Matt Jacob: Is that something that you've always had or have you had to work hard at becoming that person?
• 14:11
  Indi Casa: That's a huge question and I ask this question to myself sometimes.
• 14:15
  Indi Casa: But I think you know everything that happened when I was a kid, when I lost my mother, and then I've been to the orphanage, then I have been adopted.
• 14:31
  Indi Casa: Somehow I feel like you know.
• 14:36
  Indi Casa: When you were born, everything you lived, it's new.
• 14:41
  Indi Casa: You cannot compare what you lived with someone else because you think that this life is normal for you lived it's new, you don't.
• 14:43
  Indi Casa: You don't, you cannot compare what you live with someone else because you think that this life is normal for you.
• 14:49
  Indi Casa: So when I tell my stories, for some people they're like oh, it's, it's really sad.
• 14:54
  Indi Casa: And I was like, actually, for me it's not that sad.
• 14:58
  Indi Casa: I, I feel like I am, I'm lucky because, uh, I, I get adopted and I had a family and it doesn't happen to a lot of kids there's like millions of orphans in this world and someone chose me and I was lucky to move to Switzerland and grew up there in a beautiful country and have access to a lot of things, to be able to travel, to be able to be here in Bali, and when I traveled the first time in Africa and I met up with my sister and I spent some time with some amazing people in Africa and they cannot do half of what I'm doing.
• 15:40
  Indi Casa: They cannot do the half of what I'm doing.
• 15:43
  Indi Casa: So I feel like I have to actually take advantage of this luck that I have.
• 15:53
  Indi Casa: That's why I always take life in a positive way, because I feel like I'm lucky from the beginning, and this is something.
• 16:04
  Indi Casa: It's part of my story and I don't know what you think about that, but I feel like if today we are happy in our lives, everything we have been through in the past that make us who we are now, and if you are happy now, all the good things, all the bad things, is the thing that makes us to actually end up here.
• 16:30
  Indi Casa: So this is the way I see life.
• 16:32
  Indi Casa: It's a great way of looking at it and, if I can add something that I realized lately with this documentary and this journey that I did to connect with the family and this is how I found out the origin of my name and the meaning, everything is in the name already.
• 16:55
  Indi Casa: So when I give you the meaning of the name, it feels like it was a mantra.
• 17:02
  Indi Casa: So if your name is like life, and actually when people call by your name, you feel like this is like a mantra around you all the time.
• 17:11
  Indi Casa: So I think I always love everything about life and I would like to actually, uh, yeah, um, cherish, know when you can still breathe and we, as long as there is life, you can go any height, so there's always possibility to to make it better If we breathe.
• 17:35
  Matt Jacob: Absolutely Taking breaths as you're talking.
• 17:38
  Matt Jacob: Um, I was kind of breathless at the documentary and which I promised you we're going to talk about in a minute, um, but before we do I want to touch on something that I think trying to, you know, cross the bridge of okay, maybe I can do this full time and supply, uh, support my family, et cetera.
• 18:09
  Matt Jacob: Were there some pivotal moments for you where you thought you know, maybe I'm not cut out for this, maybe I can't do this, and if so, how did you kind of push through that For?
• 18:20
  Indi Casa: me.
• 18:21
  Indi Casa: I think I was.
• 18:22
  Indi Casa: I was again.
• 18:22
  Indi Casa: I was lucky because I had a situation that was Actually.
• 18:29
  Indi Casa: I have a safety net Because when I moved back from Bali, I took back my job.
• 18:35
  Indi Casa: At that time I was a tramway driver.
• 18:39
  Matt Jacob: Oh, okay, in Geneva, in Geneva Wow.
• 18:42
  Indi Casa: So I was working in this company for a very long time and I was working full time and then I already knew that I wanted to one day to quit and just pursue my journey as a filmmaker.
• 18:57
  Indi Casa: But I already had my daughter and I had a family.
• 19:02
  Indi Casa: So for me I didn't want to take the risk and create and just try to make a living from something I'm not sure it kind of works.
• 19:10
  Indi Casa: So I just went slowly and by, slowly, like every year, I just decreased the percentage of the time I was working with the company and just doing more with filmmaking.
• 19:24
  Indi Casa: So somehow there's like a time I was like half time working for the company and then I was traveling to make film and video for hotels in in Morocco, spain, whatever, portugal, and I had this like I was in between two.
• 19:43
  Indi Casa: Life is like lives, if I can tell, but I think the thing that's so it made me also have the opportunity to go very slow when I make the change.
• 19:59
  Indi Casa: I didn't have too many doubts.
• 20:03
  Indi Casa: The only doubt that I have, like, oh is I'm good enough, right, because you always compare yourself to other creators.
• 20:10
  Indi Casa: That's the problem.
• 20:11
  Indi Casa: But other than that, I read a book who actually teach me that I have to, to be the person that I want to be already Like feel like you make it, you fake it until you make it.
• 20:26
  Indi Casa: That's actually what I did.
• 20:27
  Indi Casa: I was like, okay, fake it until you make it, and I never doubt about that.
• 20:30
  Indi Casa: I was pretty sure that one day I would do that full time, because I didn't want to do anything else.
• 20:36
  Matt Jacob: What book was that that you read?
• 20:39
  Indi Casa: It's the Success from Jack Confield, jack Confield, the Success.
• 20:45
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I think it's one of the success.
• 20:45
  Matt Jacob: Uh from Jack.
• 20:45
  Indi Casa: Confield, jack Confield, the success.
• 20:46
  Indi Casa: Yeah, I think it's one of the guys, if I don't mistaken, who read something about the secret.
• 20:50
  Indi Casa: Yeah, I think one of the guy, I'm not a hundred percent sure but in this book they tell the story of a lot of um creators, sports uh actors who actually, uh, they use this um system uh of you.
• 21:12
  Indi Casa: Know, you, if you want to become something, you have to act like you already.
• 21:16
  Indi Casa: This like in if, in five years, we want to become a documentary, you have to be, act like you're already a documentarist.
• 21:23
  Indi Casa: This is a kind of the thing that I learned from this book.
• 21:26
  Matt Jacob: it's so true, yeah maybe it's an externalization but also an internalization.
• 21:31
  Matt Jacob: So you're kind of pushing aside any limiting beliefs, or okay, this is my identity now and I believe it, and you train your subconscious to really believe it and then everything else is acted through that right.
• 21:42
  Matt Jacob: But also you're showing to everyone else there's no such thing as what you previously did.
• 21:48
  Matt Jacob: You just are who you, who they think you are now.
• 21:50
  Matt Jacob: Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, fascinating.
• 21:53
  Matt Jacob: So, yeah, that's what I do.
• 21:54
  Matt Jacob: Think that helps the power of the mind.
• 21:56
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about how that self, or any kind of lack of self-doubt, moved into how the documentary that you made, which arguably to date is probably your biggest project, right, um, from what I watched it's I think it was just under an hour long at the moment and still I know you're still editing and stuff and um, it's such a complex and deep, personal and emotive story and for me it it was really moving.
• 22:25
  Matt Jacob: Um, I'd never met you before, I didn't know anything about you.
• 22:28
  Matt Jacob: So there is, there is a credence in that that a stranger can kind of watch that documentary and have the emotions that they, they did, and I don't think it was just about the story or personal story which is such a big part of it, but how you put it together, how you direct it, how you and your team shot it, I think was just um, absolutely fantastic.
• 22:48
  Matt Jacob: So a massive, massive credit to you and I I'm really looking forward to you sharing it with the world.
• 22:53
  Matt Jacob: Thank you, tell.
• 22:54
  Matt Jacob: Tell me everything you can about it, like let's, let's share.
• 22:57
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I have an insight, obviously, because I've watched it.
• 22:59
  Matt Jacob: But just tell us how this whole concept was formulated.
• 23:03
  Matt Jacob: Obviously, obviously, it goes back to your childhood essentially.
• 23:07
  Matt Jacob: So there's this history that you wanted to almost get closure from.
• 23:13
  Matt Jacob: But just tell us kind of, the whole story and tell us how it came about that you ended up making this documentary.
• 23:23
  Indi Casa: You want the whole story?
• 23:25
  Matt Jacob: first Tell us how how you, how you, how you decided that you were going to create a documentary.
• 23:31
  Matt Jacob: Oh, okay, yeah, okay.
• 23:32
  Matt Jacob: And then tell us the whole story of the documentary, and then I tell the story.
• 23:36
  Matt Jacob: Tell us the story.
• 23:36
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, then tell the story.
• 23:39
  Indi Casa: Oh yeah, Um, okay, how this documentary?
• 23:43
  Indi Casa: The idea started, um, Actually, the first time I went to Togo in Africa, I always had a camera, so I was always filming stuff because it was really inspiring for me, because I still have memory from my childhood in Africa.
• 24:04
  Indi Casa: So the first time when I came I went there and I already had the camera and I was making already some video about everything that was I was living there.
• 24:13
  Indi Casa: So, um, I don't know why I feel like, um, I felt like one day I will do something there, but I didn't know what I'm going to do there specifically.
• 24:26
  Indi Casa: I didn't know.
• 24:26
  Indi Casa: It was like a documentary.
• 24:28
  Matt Jacob: Just stop there a second.
• 24:29
  Matt Jacob: Why Togo?
• 24:29
  Matt Jacob: Because so you were born in Nigeria, adopted, moved to Switzerland.
• 24:33
  Matt Jacob: Where is the Togo connection?
• 24:37
  Indi Casa: I actually don't know exactly where I was born.
• 24:39
  Indi Casa: I don't know if I was born in Nigeria.
• 24:41
  Indi Casa: Then my mother moved to Togo, but I grew up in Togo with a Nigerian mother, so in Togo I was like we were the Nigerian people in Togo.
• 24:54
  Indi Casa: Okay.
• 24:55
  Matt Jacob: And the neighboring countries.
• 24:58
  Indi Casa: Actually, there's another country in between Bodo Benin Republic.
• 25:02
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, exactly, they're not very good with Western Africa geography.
• 25:05
  Matt Jacob: It's complicated, the countries change a lot as well.
• 25:09
  Indi Casa: Yeah, and yeah, I heard that nigerian people they travel a lot in west africa.
• 25:13
  Indi Casa: They're like quite like everywhere, um so yeah, so I, I grew up.
• 25:18
  Indi Casa: I grew up in in togo and I left togo when I was seven, seven, almost eight years old when I've been adopted.
• 25:26
  Indi Casa: So everything is connected to togo.
• 25:29
  Indi Casa: Okay, even Even if I'm Nigerian.
• 25:31
  Indi Casa: How long were you an orphan?
• 25:32
  Matt Jacob: for Two years, yeah two years In the same orphanage.
• 25:37
  Matt Jacob: That's in the documentary.
• 25:38
  Indi Casa: No, unfortunately no.
• 25:39
  Indi Casa: The first time when I went, I was able to find the orphans, even if they moved to another place.
• 25:45
  Indi Casa: But now they stopped.
• 25:47
  Indi Casa: They don't do yeah, because they have some issue with kids.
• 25:52
  Indi Casa: Then it was like, okay, maybe they're going to stop doing this, so it's another offence, but the vibe is the same.
• 26:03
  Matt Jacob: I just wanted to take all of them.
• 26:04
  Matt Jacob: Come live with me.
• 26:07
  Indi Casa: That was so moving for me when I was there.
• 26:09
  Indi Casa: Literally, I was holding the camera when I was filming with the kids and tears, just to see them dancing together, and that was so emotional.
• 26:30
  Indi Casa: But anyway, I, you know, my story started when I was young and around me all my friends like very close friends, that I shared my story, they were like, oh, you should write a book because your story is so amazing and it's crazy.
• 26:44
  Indi Casa: And I was like I really, I mean, it's the only thing that I know, it's my story, just part of me.
• 26:51
  Indi Casa: I don't think it's exceptional, you know, and I didn't want it to be different from other people.
• 26:58
  Indi Casa: So I was like, no, it's my story.
• 27:06
  Indi Casa: But now I'm here and like you and things like that.
• 27:07
  Indi Casa: But I don't know why, after a few years, every time I was talking about the story to friends and family, they were there.
• 27:13
  Indi Casa: They was like you, you have to do something.
• 27:15
  Indi Casa: One day, maybe just write a story and, yeah, create a book about, about it.
• 27:21
  Indi Casa: And uh, I don't know.
• 27:24
  Indi Casa: I was like uh, when I actually knew that I have some family that I I didn't know, that I found out a few years ago and I didn't met yet.
• 27:35
  Indi Casa: One day I was like, yeah, I want to go there, but I want to tell the story my way.
• 27:39
  Indi Casa: I want to make a documentary about that.
• 27:41
  Indi Casa: This is how the idea started.
• 27:44
  Indi Casa: But at that time I was alone.
• 27:46
  Indi Casa: I was like, yeah, every time I go, I travel to Africa, I had a camera and I film people, but I can't film myself.
• 27:55
  Indi Casa: When I the first time that I met my sister I don't have any footage when I meet her because I was meeting her for the first time.
• 28:01
  Indi Casa: But then, when I found out the rest of the family I was like, yeah, I want to go there and I want to make a documentary, make a documentary, but I can't be behind a camera and leave this kind of important things in my life.
• 28:23
  Indi Casa: I have to be aware of the camera when I have to connect with the people.
• 28:26
  Indi Casa: And I didn't know how to do it.
• 28:29
  Indi Casa: And one day I met a guy.
• 28:31
  Indi Casa: His name is Loic and today we are friends and we started working together on a documentary project.
• 28:41
  Indi Casa: He has this project in Switzerland and when we worked together I realized that he actually has the way he sees things, the way he films.
• 28:58
  Indi Casa: I really like it.
• 28:59
  Indi Casa: This is the way also I used to do it.
• 29:00
  Indi Casa: So I was like, hmm, it can be interesting to work with this person for the documentary, even if I collaborated with a lot of people before.
• 29:12
  Indi Casa: But this guy, I realized something different.
• 29:15
  Indi Casa: And I told him one day I have something to tell you.
• 29:18
  Indi Casa: And we were in my kitchen one day and I tell him my story and he said you know what, if you go there, I'll go with you and I'm going to help you doing this project.
• 29:29
  Indi Casa: And I'm going to help you doing this project and I can tell you today again, someone bring him to my life, because I needed to have someone to do this project.
• 29:42
  Indi Casa: And now I have a friend and I have someone who I make the documentary with and we actually co-produce everything together.
• 29:49
  Indi Casa: I make the documentary with and we actually co-produce everything together.
• 29:54
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, um, so some, something that, um, actually is important that you just talked about, but it's more in the documentary is how you ended up finding out that you had family that you didn't know about.
• 30:05
  Matt Jacob: Right so tell us that little little story.
• 30:08
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, that's, that's because the whole documentary is based on you finding out that information and then trying to go and find them right.
• 30:18
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, so how did you find out?
• 30:24
  Indi Casa: Actually, again when I was in Bali in 2016, I met a guy from Nigeria.
• 30:33
  Indi Casa: He was actually in Indonesia, but not in Bali.
• 30:38
  Indi Casa: He was studying in Bandung and he came in Bali just for holidays.
• 30:46
  Indi Casa: And I didn't remember how I met him, Maybe from a friend of a friend, and I met this guy and a long time ago I felt like I was almost the only black guy here in Bali.
• 31:00
  Indi Casa: Yeah, yeah, you know people remember me where I go like, oh, this is the black guy.
• 31:05
  Indi Casa: It was like, okay, I'm the only one.
• 31:07
  Indi Casa: And when I met another black guy, he was this guy.
• 31:10
  Indi Casa: He was like, wow.
• 31:11
  Indi Casa: And then we connected, Okay, and uh, he was from Nigeria and we, we, we, we become friend.
• 31:19
  Indi Casa: There's like a a beautiful connection that we have together.
• 31:22
  Indi Casa: And uh, he came to my family, he met my daughter and we, we started to spend some time together and I was really interested about him and I wanted to know more, also about my country, because he's from Nigeria.
• 31:37
  Indi Casa: And I tell him my story.
• 31:42
  Indi Casa: And he said, no, that was even different, because I tell him my story.
• 31:50
  Indi Casa: It was like, okay, yeah, we are brother because you are from Nigeria.
• 31:55
  Indi Casa: But then we started to talk about my mother, the one that I lost, and I give him the last name of my mother.
• 32:08
  Indi Casa: Because I have this last name, because the first time when I went back to Africa I found the passport of my mother, because I have this last name, because the first time when I went back to Africa I found the passport of my mother.
• 32:16
  Indi Casa: And that's the way I found out the last name of my mother.
• 32:19
  Indi Casa: Okay, and I actually tattooed the face of my mother and his name on my arm.
• 32:26
  Indi Casa: So when I talked to my friend Archie his name is Archie about the last name of my mother, I was like, no, no way, it can't be.
• 32:35
  Indi Casa: I was like, yeah, I even tattooed her name on my arm and I show him.
• 32:39
  Indi Casa: And he was like, oh, this is so crazy.
• 32:41
  Indi Casa: I know you were my brother because you know what.
• 32:45
  Indi Casa: This name comes from the same area where I come from, in Nigeria.
• 32:48
  Indi Casa: And I was like, no way, because Nigeria is a huge country.
• 32:52
  Indi Casa: And it was like, yeah, but this name comes from the same area.
• 32:56
  Indi Casa: And in front of me, he called his mother in Nigeria and asked her about the name.
• 33:02
  Indi Casa: And her mother was like, yeah, your friend, definitely come from the same area and you don't have to search anywhere else, it's here.
• 33:12
  Indi Casa: And since then my friend told me yeah, I promise you, I'm going to find your family.
• 33:17
  Indi Casa: And when he finished studying in Indonesia, when he moved back to Nigeria, he started to make some, some research.
• 33:32
  Matt Jacob: Wow, yeah, cool, okay.
• 33:34
  Matt Jacob: So tell us now about you you going to Africa?
• 33:38
  Matt Jacob: Tell us, tell us the general story of the documentary without giving too much away.
• 33:46
  Matt Jacob: Just give us an insight as to basically what the documentary shows us.
• 33:49
  Indi Casa: Uh, in the documentary.
• 33:50
  Indi Casa: Um, it's actually basically what the documentary shows us.
• 33:52
  Indi Casa: In the documentary, it's actually me going to meet the rest of my family for the first time and everything that I'm going through like it's very immersive, like people they can follow along when I'm going to meet my family and when I meet them for the first time, we film everything.
• 34:15
  Indi Casa: So I'm sharing the meeting, uh, in real life, with my family.
• 34:21
  Indi Casa: This is all about.
• 34:23
  Indi Casa: This is all about the, the, the, the meeting.
• 34:27
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, like genuinely meeting new members of your family you've never met before in togo, exactly yeah, and and you know, I'm sure people can imagine that the emotions that were, you know, involved in that me um what, looking back at it now, um, what, what do you think that documentary means to you as a as a person, but also as a filmmaker?
• 34:54
  Indi Casa: Um, for me, a documentary it's the it's.
• 35:01
  Indi Casa: For me it's kind of like, uh, um, the modern book.
• 35:05
  Indi Casa: I mean we still need books, but it's another way to actually books.
• 35:07
  Indi Casa: I mean we still need books, but it's another way to actually transmit some something to someone.
• 35:12
  Indi Casa: And uh, for me a documentary is is here just to, it's here we make documentary to actually.
• 35:22
  Indi Casa: No, we watch documentary to learn something, to become a better, a better, uh, person or yeah.
• 35:37
  Matt Jacob: Share story, authentic stories.
• 35:38
  Matt Jacob: So what about your documentary in Decre?
• 35:40
  Matt Jacob: What do you think people will?
• 35:43
  Matt Jacob: What do you hope that people will learn or take away from it?
• 35:47
  Indi Casa: Um, more than just meeting the family and share, what is it about to be an adoptive person or a friend person?
• 35:56
  Indi Casa: I want people to actually remember that we, as humans, are all connected somehow.
• 36:09
  Indi Casa: As humans all connected somehow, we have to be more open with people that we met in our life.
• 36:20
  Indi Casa: Yeah, to be more open-minded, because this is actually everything that helped me to either create this documentary with my friend or to be able to find my family and meet the people, just trust people in general and be more open to people that we met.
• 36:38
  Indi Casa: And also, I would love the people to connect to their own story.
• 36:47
  Indi Casa: Yes, because the thing is like, if we share our own story, this is how we connect to other people, because, imagine, there's someone I don't know the story, but when I'm going to know the story, it's going to help me to connect to that person, because maybe I'm going to realize that we have more similitudes between this person and I.
• 37:13
  Indi Casa: So I would say we have to tell more about who we are and to embrace our story sharing, because I can give you an example Since I started to work on this project, I had the opportunity to talk with a lot of adoptive people, because the fact that I'm always sharing this.
• 37:43
  Indi Casa: I never shared my story before.
• 37:45
  Indi Casa: When I did a crowdfunding and I started to talk about the story, there's a lot of people that came like, oh, I'm adoptive too, I'm also in finance and I started to talk about the story, there's a lot of people that came like, oh, I'm an adopter too, I'm also an orphanage and I have this story and it's so inspiring.
• 37:57
  Indi Casa: I want to know more.
• 37:58
  Indi Casa: And I was like, oh, actually, I can build a community about that.
• 38:02
  Indi Casa: People can share their own story and learn from it.
• 38:05
  Indi Casa: And it's happened only because I share my story.
• 38:08
  Indi Casa: If I didn't share the story, people are going to just stay in the shadow.
• 38:12
  Indi Casa: So by telling a story, some other people can relate to that story, like, oh, actually I'm not alone.
• 38:19
  Indi Casa: Then someone else will leave the same thing and, uh, this, this was the idea when I when I started to make the documentary.
• 38:28
  Indi Casa: Because, like yeah, when I started to make the documentary because like yeah, it's, it's helped to connect people together and I also want people to to believe in miracles, because it's also a miracle what I have been through to be able to to I mean, I travel from Switzerland to Bali meet someone and then it helped me to go to Africa meet my family.
• 38:52
  Indi Casa: It's a miracle.
• 38:54
  Matt Jacob: It's literally, when you think about the story of the documentary, it's literally like a Hollywood script.
• 38:59
  Matt Jacob: You know, that type of story you only see in the movies.
• 39:03
  Matt Jacob: You don't really see it in documentaries.
• 39:06
  Matt Jacob: Like, what the fuck is going on?
• 39:07
  Matt Jacob: How is this happening?
• 39:08
  Matt Jacob: Like the chances and the opportunities, and then these, these connections, after decades is in real life and being shot in in real time.
• 39:19
  Matt Jacob: Right, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy.
• 39:21
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I mean it could have gone differently, right, if you didn't find, I won't give too much away, but if you didn't, if you didn't find the people that you're looking for, it might not have been a very as interesting documentary, right?
• 39:33
  Indi Casa: Exactly it can.
• 39:34
  Matt Jacob: it could be something else, but it's going to be different, for sure, yeah.
• 39:39
  Indi Casa: But yeah, that's uh, yeah, you know, I, I felt like everything was meant to be and uh, same.
• 39:48
  Indi Casa: When we started to to to film, and when I started this, this journey in africa, I didn't know what I'm gonna tell as well, and it's only when we started to do the editing process that I realized that, oh, I actually learned even me.
• 40:04
  Indi Casa: I actually learned things about me when I was editing.
• 40:06
  Indi Casa: So it's like, oh, actually, yeah, okay, I didn't know that you feel that way, you know.
• 40:13
  Indi Casa: So it was like a therapy for me, uh, working on this project, and I'm sure technically as well.
• 40:20
  Matt Jacob: I mean, we, we talk about how people learn filmmaking and photography and I know you know, even here we we have communities and talks and people share, but actually you know the the real lessons are learned by doing just going to go and do something and follow your curiosity, following your own curiosity, and then just giving it a go right and a lot of times it doesn't work.
• 40:45
  Matt Jacob: But even those times when it doesn't work, you learn about yourself, but you learn technically.
• 40:47
  Matt Jacob: Okay, I can do this better, and I always say that to people and it's proof.
• 40:48
  Matt Jacob: In those times when it doesn't work, you learn about yourself, but you learn technically.
• 40:51
  Matt Jacob: Okay, I can do this better, and I always say that to people and it's proof in case in point, with your documentary, you the best way of learning.
• 41:01
  Matt Jacob: Just get up and just go and try it.
• 41:05
  Indi Casa: Yeah, it's exactly that.
• 41:06
  Indi Casa: I knew that I'm going to learn a lot with this project, and I did.
• 41:10
  Indi Casa: I did.
• 41:11
  Indi Casa: There's a lot of things that I didn't know how we're going to do it.
• 41:15
  Indi Casa: I'm also very happy that I have someone who was with me and we were able to work together as well.
• 41:21
  Indi Casa: I wasn't alone and I learned a lot.
• 41:25
  Indi Casa: That's a huge.
• 41:27
  Matt Jacob: Give me an example of what you learned.
• 41:32
  Indi Casa: The editing process already, because we have like 40 hours of footage, just 55 minutes of film.
• 41:42
  Matt Jacob: How long did it take?
• 41:42
  Matt Jacob: How long did it take, how long did it take to do first cuts of that?
• 41:46
  Indi Casa: Actually the first cuts we had it like a few months ago.
• 41:51
  Matt Jacob: Really.
• 41:51
  Indi Casa: Before that, I think we spent months only just to sort everything by theme and, yeah, to make sure that we have like a good structure with all the files and everything, to make sure that when we start to tell the story, we know where we're going to pick up these images.
• 42:19
  Matt Jacob: If you need a B-roll, we know exactly where to take it so it's a lot of like labeling with keywords and colors and did you have like a storyboard that over see over kind of that sits on top of all of this that you can follow?
• 42:34
  Matt Jacob: Yeah?
• 42:35
  Indi Casa: we, we work with this with, uh, post-its okay, yeah, so I have a photo with the, the.
• 42:44
  Indi Casa: We have like a the wall of my house full of post-its with different, different elements and we were like trying to move things around and and find how we can tell the story, because this like 30 years of story to put in 15, 15 minutes of story to put in 15, 15 minutes, and there's a lot of things going on.
• 43:04
  Indi Casa: And we it was very helpful just to, you know, go out of the screen, because when you work on, the timeline is so tiny and if you have to pick up stuff and move things around, you don't have like the big pictures and the post-it help us to have like the big picture of the story.
• 43:19
  Indi Casa: So we were working like following the post-it, Okay of the story.
• 43:25
  Indi Casa: So we were working like following the post-its okay, this part comes to this section and this is the way we did it.
• 43:30
  Indi Casa: And for me, that was the first time working like that, because every time I was working for a project, we were making a one minute video for a company, so I never had the opportunity to work like that.
• 43:41
  Indi Casa: So, yeah, it's something that I learned and also it's a complicated story and it's helped me to be better at telling story as well.
• 43:53
  Indi Casa: Yeah, and also in Africa, we shot a lot of things that we didn't use, and now I feel like I need to prepare more before I shoot, to shoot a bit less.
• 44:09
  Matt Jacob: More preparation, less shooting.
• 44:11
  Indi Casa: Exactly, but it's documentary this.
• 44:13
  Indi Casa: Sometimes you film things you don't.
• 44:15
  Indi Casa: You think it doesn't going to serve you.
• 44:17
  Matt Jacob: I was going to say you never know what's going to happen.
• 44:19
  Indi Casa: It can save you and the editing is like oh, I'm happy that I filmed this, we just use that.
• 44:23
  Indi Casa: Yeah.
• 44:24
  Indi Casa: Oh God, and it saved you and the editing.
• 44:26
  Indi Casa: It was like oh, I'm happy that I filmed this, we just used that.
• 44:27
  Indi Casa: Yeah, oh god.
• 44:28
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, 40 hours of shooting of footage you talked about storytelling and I always want to touch on this with other creators because it's one of these like almost esoteric, like really untouchable or unexplainable techniques to tell stories.
• 44:45
  Matt Jacob: To tell stories as in films, to tell stories with images, with books, with articles, with even just like instagram captions right, like telling, like having the power to tell or having the skills to just tell a story in either short form or long form, is is extremely valuable both for the audience and for the for the creator.
• 45:08
  Matt Jacob: Can you give us an insight as to what you've learned in storytelling, like give it, give us an idea of some tips and tricks, and especially with filmmaking, like where do you even start with storytelling for?
• 45:20
  Matt Jacob: For people who really want to get into filmmaking, how would you advise them to?
• 45:24
  Matt Jacob: To tell stories?
• 45:24
  Matt Jacob: Start with storytelling for people who really want to get into filmmaking, how would you?
• 45:28
  Indi Casa: advise them to tell stories.
• 45:31
  Indi Casa: Um, this is an advice that I can, I can give is, you know, we always think about the hero's journey is like someone who has like a quest and you want to achieve something, your journey, something that you can use when you also tell stories.
• 45:48
  Indi Casa: But I think the the first advice that I learned when I started to telling story is, if you don't have like a purpose, or if you don't have a purpose, or if you don't have a quest, a goal that people can follow I mean the audience when they watch the documentary you don't have a film.
• 46:15
  Indi Casa: For instance, if I'm telling a story and everything's go right, it's like, oh, I'm going to claim this month.
• 46:24
  Indi Casa: And then, uh, I feel myself or someone else claiming this month and it reached the top and nothing happened.
• 46:32
  Indi Casa: Everything is perfect.
• 46:33
  Indi Casa: You don't have a story.
• 46:34
  Indi Casa: Yeah, uh, actually we do, but it's just a boring one.
• 46:38
  Indi Casa: Yeah, but actually in this example I don't know if it's the right one, because if it's, the goal is to reach the top, but somehow we need something like a challenge.
• 46:50
  Indi Casa: A challenge I can use my own story to give an example.
• 46:59
  Indi Casa: For instance, the goal is that I'm going to meet my family in Africa, but I didn't have a challenge before I go.
• 47:10
  Indi Casa: I was like, okay, just take my family, we fly to Africa, we take a van, we cross the country and we go and we meet the family and everything's perfect, in this case as well, for me.
• 47:25
  Indi Casa: People.
• 47:25
  Indi Casa: They are waiting the meeting, so they're expecting something.
• 47:31
  Indi Casa: But in this film, the thing is that I discovered my own challenge in this personal journey.
• 47:38
  Indi Casa: It was like my mother and there's something I have to find out about my mother.
• 47:45
  Indi Casa: It wasn't just oh, I'm going to meet my family, but I discovered that actually there's something that I have to find out about my mother and this is something maybe I can find out when I'm going to meet my family.
• 47:58
  Indi Casa: So all the story it's around the mother.
• 48:02
  Indi Casa: I don't want to tell too much, but this is the challenge and the I don't know how to say that the core.
• 48:11
  Matt Jacob: The core of the story.
• 48:12
  Matt Jacob: So people.
• 48:13
  Indi Casa: They are like they're craving to know the answer.
• 48:15
  Indi Casa: It's not like, oh, they're craving to see you meet the family, Because if I do, oh, he went there, he meets the family.
• 48:21
  Indi Casa: It's beautiful he's moving family.
• 48:21
  Indi Casa: Because if I do, oh, he went there, he missed the family.
• 48:22
  Indi Casa: It's beautiful he moving.
• 48:23
  Indi Casa: But in we really had to sit down and find a way to bring something, a challenge again, and something that I was facing.
• 48:39
  Indi Casa: Almost like a problem A problem to solve With a solution Exactly like a problem.
• 48:43
  Indi Casa: A problem to solve with a solution exactly.
• 48:44
  Indi Casa: It's like I bring a problem here and I have to find a journey to solve this problem so this is the best way to tell a story, like, yeah, I'm gonna do this, but instead of telling a story when you know already that it's gonna succeed, find the problem first, and then this is the angle you can take to tell the story.
• 49:09
  Indi Casa: Like, oh okay, I have this problem, how can I solve this problem?
• 49:12
  Indi Casa: Because these people, they're going to watch the film, they're going to watch the documentary, because they want to find out if you solve the problem.
• 49:23
  Matt Jacob: So what about non-documentary stuff?
• 49:25
  Matt Jacob: So let's go back to your kind of commercial work with brands and and all of the kind of agencies and companies and you know, individuals, even that you work with, to create films for you.
• 49:39
  Matt Jacob: You carry the same method into those films and those videos in terms of storytelling, or do you do something different?
• 49:47
  Indi Casa: Oh, it's completely different.
• 49:51
  Matt Jacob: Okay.
• 49:52
  Matt Jacob: So imagine I'm a beginner, I'm a beginner videographer, right, and I want to.
• 49:56
  Matt Jacob: I want to go and pitch myself to a tourist company, right, and do you, would you advise, like, at least having an element of storytelling in there, or are you literally just like, whatever they want me to do, I'll just go and shoot, uh.
• 50:09
  Indi Casa: I think it was more like this, like because most of the time when I stopped, I wanted to stay a bit aware of that.
• 50:16
  Indi Casa: It's because, you know, when you work with some, with company, they want to sell something.
• 50:21
  Indi Casa: So basically it's like, oh, we want this, you can shoot it that way.
• 50:25
  Indi Casa: And I mean you have to tell it that way because they have like a marketing agency.
• 50:31
  Indi Casa: They already tell you how to do it and you just follow the thing and, yeah, honestly, it's not very fulfilled when you work with some project like that.
• 50:41
  Indi Casa: But if not, if you have more freedom, I would say, start to always find the why of the company.
• 50:51
  Indi Casa: You know, why are they doing this.
• 50:53
  Indi Casa: Now, when I sit down with some CEO, I ask them why did you create this company?
• 50:58
  Indi Casa: They hired me to make I don't know a short commercial video about a glass and I was like, yeah, okay, but I want to know why you started to do this, why what brings you there?
• 51:14
  Indi Casa: Because behind the why, you understand the essence of the brand and the vision as well and you can start telling the story from that as well.
• 51:27
  Matt Jacob: Okay, so I want you to shoot a coffee brand, a House of Yori coffee brand.
• 51:33
  Matt Jacob: The first thing you would ask me is Is why?
• 51:36
  Indi Casa: And I wanted to ask you that when I sit down here, I was like but why coffee?
• 51:42
  Indi Casa: Why you ended up making coffee, for instance?
• 51:44
  Matt Jacob: yeah, you want me to answer yeah, well, coffee is, uh, I just love coffee, so I want, I want for me as a person whether it's photography, podcasting, business, um, coffee I always want.
• 51:59
  Matt Jacob: There's something in me that wants the best of the best as long as I can afford it.
• 52:03
  Matt Jacob: Right, and you know, I want everyone to be able to afford the best of the best, but we live in a capitalist society, but I still want.
• 52:10
  Matt Jacob: I like standards, I like high standards of stuff, so for coffee is no different.
• 52:14
  Matt Jacob: If, if I can find the best tasting coffee in the world, that experience for me is extremely pleasurable.
• 52:20
  Matt Jacob: Having my coffee in the morning that provides me 10 minutes of like bliss, like unadulterated joy.
• 52:28
  Matt Jacob: For me, that's coffee.
• 52:30
  Matt Jacob: And so I wanted to express that joy and that hopefully connect to that experience with people who may not right now share that same view as me, but hopefully I can spread that experience of joy, but also of special, special ingredients, right, the the best tasting coffee that I can possibly give people.
• 52:52
  Matt Jacob: So that's why I I started just because I love coffee, but I also wanted to to to share with other people my passion and and my joy of it.
• 53:04
  Indi Casa: It's beautiful.
• 53:05
  Indi Casa: This is the way I will sell the coffee you know no like.
• 53:14
  Indi Casa: Oh, this is the best coffee from the this country, made by these people.
• 53:16
  Indi Casa: But no, this is how coffee makes you feel the joy and everything it brings you memories, and so this is the thing that is going to help me to tell those stories from from you.
• 53:30
  Matt Jacob: That's a really, really good lesson, for you know, filmmakers that haven't quite started yet, or figuring out how to pitch for jobs.
• 53:39
  Matt Jacob: Even I mean this, the question of why is I mean, it's the essence of this podcast as well.
• 53:46
  Matt Jacob: I bring people on because I really want to be like well, why are you doing this?
• 53:51
  Matt Jacob: Because inevitably, that passion comes through from that question, from that answer right, and if that passion can come through, then you will connect with other people, hopefully inspire other people, hopefully educate other people as well, especially with documentary filmmaking as well.
• 54:08
  Matt Jacob: So I love that piece of advice and it's and it's free.
• 54:12
  Indi Casa: It's a free piece of, it's a free lesson and you know, and this way, the the way helps you as well to to know more about the person as well.
• 54:22
  Indi Casa: You feel like you're interesting to the person, and it happened to me that some CEOs were like, oh, nobody asked me this question.
• 54:30
  Indi Casa: Oh, actually I have to think about it, because now it's been a year I'm working in this company.
• 54:34
  Indi Casa: I almost forget my why and you bring them back to why they started everything and it's like, okay, this is why you have to share to the people the why and not what you do.
• 54:48
  Indi Casa: But something that I learned from the book as well, but I use that all the time.
• 54:54
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, it's another lesson read um you, I mean, we talked a little bit about there there as well, but before you also mentioned how, the, the power of, or the, the goal.
• 55:07
  Matt Jacob: I guess one of the goals of your documentary and your filmmaking is to connect people and to, to, to really make people understand that we're all connected on this planet.
• 55:17
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, which I think is, you know, quite an easy thing to say, but in, in reality, you know that so many of us are baffled by why there is so much hate, why there is sexism, racism, um, greed, just war, religious wars, whatever it might be.
• 55:35
  Matt Jacob: What do you think filmmaking is?
• 55:39
  Matt Jacob: Has got a part to play in that?
• 55:41
  Matt Jacob: A good, a good part to play in that?
• 55:42
  Matt Jacob: Like, how can filmmaking help?
• 55:46
  Indi Casa: We can help in different ways, because filmmaking there's a tool that you can use and share a lot of things in different environments, different topics, so there's always a way we can help, do you?
• 56:02
  Matt Jacob: worry sometimes that a film, even a documentary film, has bias to it.
• 56:06
  Matt Jacob: And when you have 40 hours of footage, you're choosing to leave out 39 hours, right?
• 56:12
  Matt Jacob: If you have an hour's documentary, you're leaving out what is that?
• 56:15
  Matt Jacob: Like two and two and a half percent, right, you're, you're keeping in.
• 56:20
  Matt Jacob: So that's my worry is that even in today's society, even in the digitized society of social media, even filmmaking, youtube, the news outlets these days, independent news, but even podcasting we could choose to not include part of this conversation.
• 56:38
  Matt Jacob: We wanted to, and many people do.
• 56:39
  Matt Jacob: That worries me in a way, that there's always an agenda behind everything, whether it's good or bad, and it will always be perceived differently with different people, because we're human and we all have our own perceptions.
• 56:54
  Matt Jacob: So that's why I asked that question is like what, what, what role really does filmmaking have to play and how can we ensure that the the goal is reached with each film that we produce?
• 57:07
  Matt Jacob: Like, how can we connect people?
• 57:09
  Matt Jacob: That is, that is, that doesn't have an agenda behind it, that doesn't have bias behind it.
• 57:15
  Matt Jacob: Especially with documentaries are very important to stay like, neutral right, yeah.
• 57:20
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 57:21
  Indi Casa: Um, yeah, actually I heard that once.
• 57:27
  Indi Casa: When we make documentary, we have the responsibility of what we share to the world, because this is our voice.
• 57:35
  Indi Casa: This is maybe the way we also think, but there's a rule.
• 57:42
  Indi Casa: I don't know if every documentary follows.
• 57:44
  Indi Casa: That rule is that when you make a documentary about a topic, we should always have like I don't know, I don't have an example now but to be neutral about the topic.
• 58:00
  Indi Casa: You should have someone who's talking about in a positive way and always have someone talking to a negative way, like these people can have their own judgment.
• 58:08
  Indi Casa: Yeah, you know, instead of making a documentary, go to just one direction and like oh, this is propaganda, you know it's like.
• 58:16
  Indi Casa: So, to avoid this, always have to find someone else who can, who has a completely different idea about this, and and use both in the documentary to make sure that the audience has the the space to to choose.
• 58:33
  Indi Casa: Um, yeah, but in my, in my case a bit different because it's a personal story yeah, I wanted to bring something positive and uh, yeah, this's just personal, yeah yeah, yeah, and what a positive, what a positive film it is.
• 58:53
  Matt Jacob: and I think I think responsibility is a really good word to use, especially once we start getting audiences right, and I think there are many people out there who have huge audiences but don't quite realize the responsibility they have to in in what they're putting out there, who have huge audiences but don't quite realize the responsibility they have in what they're putting out there and what maybe the message is that they are trying to say, or trying to convince people, which is there's nothing wrong with that.
• 59:18
  Matt Jacob: Right, if you come out and say, look, this is my opinion and I want you to believe me, okay, like, that's up to the individual, but I still think there's a real responsibility to be as fair as possible with everything that we put out there if it's opinion-based.
• 59:33
  Indi Casa: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 59:34
  Matt Jacob: So in that way as well, like specifically, stereotypes concern me, and when it comes to filmmaking and photography as well.
• 59:44
  Matt Jacob: Photography is even worse for it because photography is a much easier medium to to perform these days.
• 59:51
  Matt Jacob: Everyone has a camera and people bali's the perfect example of it people come in here and they just take the photos of the same places under the same waterfall, with the same people and they're just, they're just um exacerbating that stereotype of what what Bali is and what the people are and what the culture is, whereas, in my opinion, the responsibility of everyone not just photographers and filmmakers is should be to to challenge those stereotypes, right, because those stereotypes don't help anyone, whether it's a race stereotype, whether it's a cultural stereotype, whether it's a geographical stereotype.
• 1:00:28
  Matt Jacob: So I think that is also some kind of responsibility that we have as as artists, especially commercial artists, right?
• 1:00:35
  Matt Jacob: That's, if we're getting paid.
• 1:00:36
  Matt Jacob: This is where the the lines really become quite blurred, because you get paid by someone to do a job.
• 1:00:44
  Matt Jacob: You often have to tell their story or you have to tell their brief and their idea about whatever agenda they have.
• 1:00:53
  Matt Jacob: Right, because they're paying you, and it just becomes this whole arms race to get to kind of this, this, this commercial gain, as fast as possible.
• 1:01:03
  Matt Jacob: Um, so yeah, I mean, there's not really a question for you, but but it's just a an observation that I've had with with many people, um, especially with photographers who go into these types of places.
• 1:01:15
  Matt Jacob: And Togo, nigeria, africa, indonesia, all of these these places that have these real rich cultural heritages real, really rich, deep indigenous populations and diverse we come in and we just go, okay, off, we go.
• 1:01:33
  Matt Jacob: It just doesn't help anything, but everyone's so selfish in that they're like I want to just get my photo and go.
• 1:01:40
  Matt Jacob: I'm not criticizing that.
• 1:01:43
  Matt Jacob: Really, it's just an observation of the negative effects of that.
• 1:01:47
  Matt Jacob: As filmmakers who are making documentaries or filmmakers who are making more artistic pieces, I still think there is this deep responsibility that we have to challenge those stereotypes.
• 1:01:58
  Matt Jacob: We have to expose why those stereotypes could be of a dangerous nature if we continue to.
• 1:02:07
  Indi Casa: Yeah, I totally agree with this.
• 1:02:08
  Indi Casa: I asked myself this question also lately because I also went to visit some indigenous tribe in Indonesia and we started making a documentary with them that we have to still edit.
• 1:02:26
  Indi Casa: We started making a documentary with them that we have to still edit.
• 1:02:28
  Indi Casa: But I also asked this question because I was like, okay, if I make a documentary about them, they actually want to protect.
• 1:02:37
  Indi Casa: In the documentary they say that they want to protect this environment, their culture and everything, say in the jungle and everything.
• 1:02:46
  Indi Casa: But at the same time I was like, yeah, but if I make a documentary about them, it means that if I put it out there on social media, on YouTube and everything, so I just show the world that they are there and some other people want to go there and also make some content with them.
• 1:03:04
  Indi Casa: So it doesn't really help them anymore if everyone goes there as well, content with them.
• 1:03:09
  Indi Casa: So it doesn't really help them anymore if everyone goes there as well.
• 1:03:12
  Indi Casa: So I am also part of this if I do that.
• 1:03:13
  Indi Casa: So sometimes I feel like, oh, I don't know if I do that to tell a story, I mean, they tell their own story, because the way we shot was like hey, tell your story.
• 1:03:24
  Indi Casa: It's an interview.
• 1:03:25
  Indi Casa: Say what you want to say.
• 1:03:26
  Indi Casa: But at the same time, if I show that to the world, I should.
• 1:03:29
  Indi Casa: I put them maybe on the map and some other people who want to come into the same.
• 1:03:33
  Indi Casa: So, by thinking that I'm helping them, maybe I'm not you're not.
• 1:03:40
  Matt Jacob: Well, you might not be, and I think this is such a big, this is such a big problem that there is no one solution to it.
• 1:03:48
  Matt Jacob: I was in Ladakh last year, northern India, on a photography project and every day, me and my team and the people I was with were talking about this.
• 1:03:58
  Matt Jacob: Like, why are we here?
• 1:04:01
  Matt Jacob: Honestly, let's be honest with each other why are we here wanting to get photographs?
• 1:04:07
  Matt Jacob: And the honest answer is we want it for ourselves, right, if it's a commercial job, we went there commercially.
• 1:04:14
  Matt Jacob: It was more of a personal thing.
• 1:04:15
  Matt Jacob: But if you're doing a commercial documentary that you're getting paid for or that you want to sell, or you want to sell the rights to whatever it might be, in the end you want to get money for it.
• 1:04:24
  Matt Jacob: If that's your goal, then then that's the answer to that first question why are you here?
• 1:04:30
  Matt Jacob: Well, it's a job.
• 1:04:31
  Matt Jacob: Uh, essentially so, immediately.
• 1:04:34
  Matt Jacob: If you're honestly, intellectually honest with yourself, immediately you are, you're, you're not, you're not there for the right reasons.
• 1:04:41
  Matt Jacob: Now, that's that's obviously like such a simple example, and it's not true for all of these projects and some of these people that are doing fantastic work within the visual art space.
• 1:04:54
  Matt Jacob: Yorick is a perfect example who we had on recently.
• 1:04:57
  Matt Jacob: As long as I think we're aware of that and it's people like you and Yorick who are fundamentally aware of the impact that what you're doing might have, and that you're able to sit down with the people that are involved in that, the indigenous people or the subjects of that story or that project, I think, as long as you're honest with them about that and you give them the choice, you kind of hand over the responsibility to them a little bit and say, look, this is my goal for it.
• 1:05:26
  Matt Jacob: I hope that the secondary goal, the by-product of it, is that we can help you, we can pay for your time now and we can involve you in it and you can be involved at every step and then we can decide how it gets distributed and if you want this and if you want that.
• 1:05:41
  Matt Jacob: But I think, as long as they are aware of that, because some people in my experience, and certainly in indigenous populations, some people might want more, they might want to be put on the map, right, they're like no, no, no, tell more about yeah, yeah, expose us, we need tourism and we need more people to visit and we want to meet the West and we want to meet all these people.
• 1:06:01
  Matt Jacob: And when some other people like, no, no, no, I don't want this going anywhere, right, because we, we, we don't want, we want to protect our way of life.
• 1:06:09
  Matt Jacob: So I think it's.
• 1:06:10
  Matt Jacob: It is individual in that respect, but I think the important thing is we can't go in and just say, look, we're going to make this and then we'll see what happens.
• 1:06:20
  Matt Jacob: Right, definitely, we will have responsibilities with that.
• 1:06:23
  Indi Casa: We have a lot of responsibilities.
• 1:06:25
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I was have a lot of responsibility.
• 1:06:31
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I was gonna say something else then, but I think we, I think we've talked about the, the documentary, um enough, and I think the ending was some some of the quotes that you come up with in the documentary very inspirational.
• 1:06:39
  Indi Casa: I love a good quote and I'm happy because the, the quotes, uh, I actually write them.
• 1:06:46
  Indi Casa: Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 1:06:47
  Indi Casa: Everything has been inspiring about this journey.
• 1:06:51
  Indi Casa: I actually spent a lot of time with a friend that I met here in Bali.
• 1:06:58
  Indi Casa: His name is Brent and he's like a poet.
• 1:07:03
  Indi Casa: He actually taught me how to write because I'm not a writer and I started to think things differently and I think, put I mean to be able to put words together in a beautiful way.
• 1:07:19
  Indi Casa: It's art and this is the thing that I learned with him.
• 1:07:23
  Indi Casa: And, yeah, I'm very happy with everything that I bring in this film, with the voiceover and the writing and everything.
• 1:07:33
  Matt Jacob: So the one of the quotes at the end um, you said you were walked towards destiny, determined to achieve great things which I will share with the world.
• 1:07:42
  Indi Casa: Yeah, that's.
• 1:07:43
  Indi Casa: That's where I am right now.
• 1:07:45
  Indi Casa: That's the thing that I'm trying to find out.
• 1:07:48
  Indi Casa: What do you?
• 1:07:49
  Matt Jacob: see, like if I have to put you on the spot now, what do you think those great things will be?
• 1:07:54
  Matt Jacob: I don't know, Actually, I don't know.
• 1:08:00
  Matt Jacob: Okay, what would you want them to be?
• 1:08:01
  Matt Jacob: Still don't know.
• 1:08:04
  Indi Casa: The thing is like I, yeah, I want to do something one day that is going to help people.
• 1:08:16
  Indi Casa: I don't know what it is yet.
• 1:08:18
  Indi Casa: I want people to remember me as a person that did something for the community.
• 1:08:24
  Indi Casa: Yes, that's the thing I want to find out, and I will find out, and I will find out.
• 1:08:29
  Indi Casa: I don't know how it will come up, but, yeah, I want to do great things.
• 1:08:34
  Indi Casa: I don't want just to, you know, okay, I'm a filmmaker making video for a company, make money and then that's it.
• 1:08:41
  Indi Casa: We need gold in our lives and yeah, and purpose Purpose.
• 1:08:48
  Matt Jacob: It's a cliche but it is so important for people to have that purpose to go and and do the next thing and next thing, and next thing, and give back yeah.
• 1:08:58
  Indi Casa: Give back Give back somehow.
• 1:09:00
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah, Interesting.
• 1:09:02
  Matt Jacob: Um, well, we'll keep doing it.
• 1:09:04
  Matt Jacob: I mean, um, I don't know when we'll see, kind of the next chapter of your filmmaking life, but, um, I'll be following closely for sure and can't wait to.
• 1:09:13
  Matt Jacob: I think releasing that documentary is going to just be so powerful.
• 1:09:17
  Matt Jacob: So for so many people, I think that's such an inspirational way to give back and to share.
• 1:09:22
  Matt Jacob: You know your purpose or at least, um you know, share that connection with other people.
• 1:09:28
  Indi Casa: Yeah, Maybe this is the, the, the, the thing that I'm gonna open up Begin, Begin, yeah, that direction.
• 1:09:37
  Indi Casa: Maybe Adopt adoption?
• 1:09:39
  Indi Casa: Oh, I don't know.
• 1:09:40
  Indi Casa: Yeah, I will find out when I'm going to release this, but yeah, it's going to be.
• 1:09:44
  Indi Casa: Um, I'm going to submit to film festival.
• 1:09:49
  Matt Jacob: Tell us a bit about the film festival, culture and environment.
• 1:09:53
  Matt Jacob: What, what actually happened?
• 1:09:54
  Matt Jacob: I've never been to one, I've never submitted to one, I don't make films, but how?
• 1:09:58
  Matt Jacob: What happens?
• 1:10:01
  Matt Jacob: What happens?
• 1:10:02
  Matt Jacob: So you submit and then do you go and then there's a big jury that that selects films and shortlist them, or what happens?
• 1:10:10
  Indi Casa: actually I never done that.
• 1:10:11
  Indi Casa: This is so new for me, so everything is new for me.
• 1:10:15
  Indi Casa: And uh, I know that there's some platform.
• 1:10:17
  Indi Casa: You can submit to different film festival and then, if you, they select your film, uh, you, you can be screened in a film festival and get some rewards and then it can open up for you as a documentary filmmaker and uh, yeah, I don't know.
• 1:10:37
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah, I will see.
• 1:10:38
  Indi Casa: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:10:41
  Matt Jacob: We're going to end with one one question, Um, and it's nothing to do with your documentary filmmaking, but, uh, what is something important to you that most of your peers or friends might not know about?
• 1:10:52
  Matt Jacob: Say it again what is something important to you that most of your friends or family might not know about?
• 1:11:02
  Indi Casa: Oh wow, this is a tricky question they don't know about.
• 1:11:06
  Indi Casa: Do you mean about me?
• 1:11:08
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, something that you feel is important to you.
• 1:11:14
  Indi Casa: Um, yeah, I think, yeah, compassion, kindness, kindness, yeah, Something important yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Matt Jacob: But people know that about you though, right, I don't know.
• 1:11:28
  Indi Casa: They know I didn't tell them.
• 1:11:30
  Matt Jacob: Well, that's a great word to end on, because one of the first notes I made about your documentary and I put it in capitals this documentary is about human kindness.
• 1:11:41
  Matt Jacob: Beautiful, it really is.
• 1:11:44
  Matt Jacob: Thank you, so you know I hope I can give you some kindness back by sharing the documentary and having you on the show.
• 1:11:51
  Matt Jacob: Um, thank you so much for joining.
• 1:11:54
  Indi Casa: Thank you for having me.
• 1:11:55
  Matt Jacob: It's been a privilege to meet you.
• 1:11:56
  Matt Jacob: Same and, um you know, congratulations with the documentary again.
• 1:12:00
  Matt Jacob: It really is fantastic and I wish you all the success with it.
• 1:12:03
  Matt Jacob: Thank you very much.
• 1:12:03
  Matt Jacob: Thanks for coming.