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The Deliveryman Murders: A Cross-Country Rampage of Revenge, Rage, and · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I want you to imagine a sound that you hear
• 0:04
  almost every single day.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Write something super mundane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Exactly, Like you might be sitting on your couch right now,
• 0:10
  or maybe you're in the kitchen making dinner or something,
• 0:13
  and suddenly you hear.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: It the chime of your front doorbell.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, the doorbell. And I want you to think about
• 0:19
  what your immediate reaction is when you hear that sound.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, for most of us, there's absolutely zero sense
• 0:25
  of dread.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Add totally. In fact, it's usually the exact opposite. It's
• 0:28
  this like mild sense of anticipation. You hear it and
• 0:32
  you think, oh, my package is here, or did I
• 0:35
  order food?
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd assume it's something good or at least harmless.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So you walk up to the door, you look
• 0:42
  through the peephole or maybe the side glass, and you
• 0:44
  see someone standing there. They're holding a clipboard or a
• 0:47
  brown box, and they're wearing a uniform.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: In that uniform is everything.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: It really is, because in that split second, because of
• 0:54
  that reflective vest or because of that clipboard, you just
• 0:57
  you open the door. You completely surrender the security of
• 0:59
  your home.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Because we've all entered into this like unspoken social contract.
• 1:04
  We implicitly trust the delivery driver.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Right, and today we're doing a deep dive into what
• 1:08
  happens when a monster weaponizes that exact trust. We're looking
• 1:12
  at some incredible investigative sources detailing the delivery man murders, the.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Cross country revenge spree of a man named roy Den Hollander.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our mission today is to track how a highly
• 1:24
  educated Ivy League lawyer transformed into a lone wolf domestic terrorist.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: We're going to look at how he exploited the everyday,
• 1:32
  totally normal vulnerabilities of suburban life, and.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe most importantly, how a terminal medical diagnosis became this
• 1:40
  like ultimate catalyst for ideological violence. So, okay, let's untack this.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: It's the perfect place to start, honestly, because that doorbell chimes,
• 1:48
  it represents a profound psychological threshold. How so, well, the
• 1:51
  delivery uniform essentially acts as a cognitive bypass valve.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Cognitive bypass valve that sounds, I mean, what does that
• 1:57
  actually mean? In practice?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: So the human brain is constantly processing thousands of potential
• 2:03
  threats a minute, right, and to save energy, it uses
• 2:06
  heuristics shortcuts.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, So it's kagarizing things quickly so we don't get overwhelmed.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly, a clipboard and a brown shirt or a high
• 2:14
  v's vest. To our brains, that is a heuristic for safe.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, that makes total sense.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, we spend thousands dollars on home security systems,
• 2:25
  We buy dead bolts, we install ring cameras, motion lights,
• 2:28
  all of it, right, But the absolute second someone puts
• 2:31
  on a reflective vest with corporate logo, all of those
• 2:34
  expensive defenses just drop.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: We just open the door.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: We don't interrogate the person bringing us our mail, We
• 2:39
  just sign on the dotted line. He didn't just wear
• 2:42
  physical disguise. He hacked our human cognitive load.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And the devastating effectiveness of that hack is like what
• 2:49
  makes this whole thing so terrifying.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: It really is the stuff of nightmares.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And to really grasp the scope of this deep dive,
• 2:55
  we have to start by looking at two wildly different
• 2:58
  crime scenes, and they're on depletely opposite sides of the country.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Right, we have to start on the West coast.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The date is July eleventh, twenty twenty, and we
• 3:08
  are in a place called Cedar Peens Park, California.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Which is a very specific type of environment.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: It really is. If you listening aren't familiar with the
• 3:16
  geography of southern California, this is a very quiet, very
• 3:19
  secluded mountain community. It's nestled high up in the San
• 3:22
  Bernardino Mountains.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: It's the kind of place you move to when you
• 3:26
  actively deliberately want.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Privacy, right, you want the forest, you want the quiet,
• 3:30
  you want a huge buffer between yourself and the rest
• 3:33
  of the world.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The geography here is critical to understand in the crime.
• 3:38
  Cedar Peens Park is characterized by these winding, super narrow mountain.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Roads and dense pine canopies right, yes.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the houses are often tucked away, completely out
• 3:48
  of sight from the main thoroughfares. I mean, it is
• 3:50
  not a bustling city street where you expect trouble to
• 3:53
  just walk up to you on the sidewalk.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: No, not at all. And living in this like secluded,
• 3:58
  deliberate isolation is a fifty two year old attorney named
• 4:02
  Mark Angeloucci.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And Angelucci was a highly prominent figure.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He was a vice president and a board member
• 4:09
  of an organization called the National Coalition for Men, or
• 4:12
  the NCFM.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: He was very well known for taking on high profile
• 4:16
  civil rights cases, specifically focusing on men's issues.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's a quiet weekend afternoon up in the mountains,
• 4:23
  and Angelucci's routine is interrupted by that exact sound we
• 4:26
  just talked about, the doorbell, the doorbell, and here is
• 4:29
  where that theory you mentioned, the cognitive bypass valve is
• 4:32
  put into horrific practice.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Because there's a man standing outside claiming to have a
• 4:37
  package delivery that requires a signature.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Which is the absolute perfect lure.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: It really is. It brings Angeloucci right to the threshold
• 4:44
  of his home. It pulls him out of his safe
• 4:46
  space and completely into the open.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And the moment the door is open, the illusion of
• 4:51
  the delivery just drops Angeloucci shot at point blank range.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: It's just brutal.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: He dies right there on his doorstep, and you know,
• 5:00
  paramedics have to navigate those winding mountain rills, so he
• 5:03
  passes away before they can even arrive.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And the shooter, he simply vanishes into.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: The landscape, just disappears.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Witnesses later described seeing a man in quote delivery
• 5:14
  style attire fleeing in a vehicle.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: But in a mountain community like that, a vehicle disappearing
• 5:20
  down a dirt road or wooded highway. I mean that
• 5:23
  leaves incredibly sparse details for the police exactly.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: This left the local law enforcement, the San Bernardino County
• 5:30
  Sheriff's homicide detectives, in a severely disadvantaged position right from
• 5:35
  the start, because.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: When they arrive on the scene, they're looking at an
• 5:38
  environment that feels incredibly cold and calculated.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: They actually called it a professional hit.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Like scene, right, And when you break it down, you
• 5:45
  can totally see why they thought they were dealing with
• 5:48
  like a cartel or an organized crime hitman.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Think about the mechanics of the crime from a detective's perspective.
• 5:55
  There is no forced entry. Nobody kicked down the door
• 5:58
  or broke a window, right.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: There are no signs of a struggle inside the home whatsoever.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and nothing has been stolen, so you can entirely
• 6:05
  rule out a robbery gone wrong.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: It is a highly targeted execution precisely at the front door.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And because the delivery ruse is so ubiquitous in suburban
• 6:14
  and rural America, it's incredibly difficult to track. I mean,
• 6:18
  anyone can walk into a local hardware store or go
• 6:21
  online and buy a high v's.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Vest or just a plain brown uniform shirt. It leaves
• 6:26
  absolutely no distinct forensic signature none.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So California detectives are looking at this isolated, baffling assassination
• 6:35
  of a prominent attorney in the woods and they are
• 6:37
  basically scratching their heads.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: They're looking at local enemies, right, like maybe someone he sued,
• 6:43
  or maybe a local property dispute exactly.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: They're looking locally.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Now, I want you to hold that thought, keep that
• 6:48
  California scene in your mind, because we are fast forwarding
• 6:51
  eight days and.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: We are jumping twenty eight hundred miles away.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all the way to the East coast. It's July nineteenth,
• 6:56
  twenty twenty, and we are in the affluent, leafy suburbs
• 6:59
  of North Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And this isn't just a random Sunday for the family
• 7:03
  living there. It's a massive family celebration.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It's a birthday. It's the twentieth birthday of a young
• 7:08
  man named Daniel Anderl.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: He's celebrating with his parents at their family home. And
• 7:13
  his family is deeply, deeply embedded in the American justice system.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Right. His mother is US District Judge Esther Sallas. She
• 7:22
  is this highly respected totally trailblazing figure in the judiciary.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Back in twenty eleven, she actually became the first
• 7:30
  Latina appointed to New Jersey's federal.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Bench, which is a huge deal. And his father is
• 7:37
  Mark Anderl who is a very successful criminal defense attorney.
• 7:41
  He previously worked as an assistant prosecutor too, So.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: This is a family of dedicated legal professionals and they're
• 7:47
  just enjoying a milestone birthday for their only child.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And Daniel himself was actually studying at Catholic University. He
• 7:53
  was planning to follow in his parents' footsteps and go
• 7:56
  into the law.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: It's just a totally normal, happy weekend.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: But then Judge Salas is actually downstairs in the basement.
• 8:01
  She's finishing up some work, kind of cleaning up after
• 8:04
  the birthday weekends.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And Daniel and his father Mark are upstairs on the
• 8:07
  main floor.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: And then history repeats itself. The doorbell rings, a.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Man is standing outside. Yeah, and this time it's not
• 8:14
  just like generic delivery attire.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Right, he is wearing what appears to be a highly
• 8:20
  authentic looking FedEx uniform.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: It is the exact same ruse, perfectly executed twenty eight
• 8:26
  hundred miles away.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: So Daniel goes to answer the door, and I want
• 8:30
  to mention Daniel was described by literally everyone who knew
• 8:33
  him as this fiercely protective, heroic young man.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: He was known for looking out for people.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he opens the door to the delivery man
• 8:41
  and instantly, without a single word being spoken, gunfire.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Erupts, just immediate violence.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Daniel is shot in the chest and he is killed instantly.
• 8:50
  His father, Marc anderl here's the commotion, rushes toward the
• 8:54
  door and he is shot multiple times.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: He suffers horrific injuries, but incredibly he survives in critical condition.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, down in the basement, Judge Sallas hears the agonizing
• 9:04
  sounds of this absolute horror unfolding directly above her, but.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: She is unharmed. The gunman makes absolutely no attempt.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: To clear the house, right, he doesn't go searching for her.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: No, he fires his weapon at the people who answer
• 9:16
  the door, and then he just turns and disappears back
• 9:19
  into the suburban New Jersey.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Landscape, exactly as he did in the California mountains.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: It's the same exact exit strategy.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're listening to this and thinking, well, you know,
• 9:28
  I'd never fall for a fake FedEx driver. I really
• 9:31
  want you to think about how many times you've opened
• 9:33
  your door this week without really looking.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, probably half a dozen.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Times, right exactly. Dan Hollander was banking on that exact complacency.
• 9:41
  But honestly, the most terrifying part of this isn't just
• 9:44
  the disguise itself.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: It's the absolute lack of connection.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, you have two coasts, two totally different sets of victims,
• 9:52
  a men's rights attorney out in a mountain cabin and
• 9:55
  a federal judges family in a suburban New Jersey cul
• 9:59
  de sac.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: And this really highlights the inherent silos in American law enforcement.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by silos in this context.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you have San Bernardino County sheriffs dealing with what
• 10:09
  looks to them like a localized hit. They are focused
• 10:12
  entirely on their jurisdiction, right. But on the other side
• 10:15
  of the country, you had the FBI, you had the
• 10:17
  US Marshals and the New Jersey State Police. They are
• 10:20
  swarming a suburban home because an attack on a federal
• 10:24
  judges family is immediately treated as a potential act of
• 10:27
  domestic terrorism.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Right, because it strikes at the very heart of the
• 10:31
  American justice system exactly.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So in the immediate hours and days following the New
• 10:36
  Jersey attack, there is absolutely no logical reason for these
• 10:40
  two distinct regional investigative bodies to communicate with each other.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are an FBI agent in New Jersey,
• 10:49
  you are looking at Judge Salace's docket. You're pulling the
• 10:53
  files of disgruntled defendants she is sentenced over the years.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: You're looking at violent gang members or organ and crime
• 11:00
  figures that her husband might have defended in his private practice.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Right, you're pulling local traffic cameras. You are absolutely not
• 11:07
  looking at the murder of a civil rights activist in
• 11:09
  the California Mountains that happened eight days prior.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: The connection between the two is just completely invisible to them.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: So how did they connect them? Because the thread tying
• 11:17
  these two coasts together didn't exist in any FBI database. Right.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't in a digital file, It wasn't in
• 11:23
  the computer system.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It was physical, physical evidence, Yes, and.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It was waiting in a parked car on a rural
• 11:29
  road in upstate New York.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, which brings us to the discovery that blew
• 11:35
  this entire case wide open.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: The date is July twentieth, twenty twenty.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: This is literally less than twenty four hours after the
• 11:42
  attack on Judge Sallas's home in New Jersey.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Right the very next day, New York State Police are
• 11:47
  conducting a totally routine patrol on a road near Liberty,
• 11:51
  New York.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: This is in Sullivan County, And for context, if you
• 11:54
  aren't from the area, this is up in the Catskills.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: It's a deeply rural, heavily for arsted area. It's historically
• 12:02
  known for those old summer resorts, but now it's largely
• 12:05
  characterized by just quiet, wooded, empty roads.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Right, and the state troopers spot a rental car parked
• 12:12
  kind of awkwardly on the shoulder of the road.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: At first glance, it just looks like a standard motorist assist,
• 12:16
  like maybe someone got a flat tire or it's an
• 12:18
  abandoned vehicle.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: But when the troopers actually approach the car, they find
• 12:21
  a body lying outside the vehicle.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: It's a seventy two year old man and he is
• 12:27
  dead from a single self inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And the weapon is right there, a Walther zero point
• 12:33
  three point eight zero semi automatic pistol. It's lying right
• 12:37
  next to him on the ground.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: The troopers run his identification and the man is identified
• 12:42
  as Roy N. Hollander.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Now, obviously it's a grim scene, but it's exactly the
• 12:47
  kind of tragic, isolated incident that state troopers deal with
• 12:50
  all the time. A suicide on a rural road.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Right, there's no immediate reason to think this is a
• 12:55
  national news story.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But then they open the doors of the rental car
• 12:58
  and what they find inside completely alters the trajectory of
• 13:02
  two massive, unconnected homicide investigations.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Inside that vehicle was essentially a road map of perceived
• 13:09
  slights and meticulous planning.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: It was the physical evidence required to solve the entire puzzle.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Investigators found a FedEx envelope inside the car and it
• 13:17
  was addressed specifically to Judge Ester salis unbelievable.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And what else did they find?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: They found the California address of Marc Angelucci, the specific
• 13:26
  address in Cedar Pines Park.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I really want to just pause on that moment for
• 13:30
  those state troopers. You are investigating what looks like a
• 13:33
  tragic suicide in the woods, and suddenly you are holding
• 13:36
  documents that directly linked this dead man to an assassination
• 13:39
  in California and a major terrorist attack on a federal
• 13:43
  judge in New Jersey.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: It accelerates the investigation from zero to one hundred instantly.
• 13:48
  I mean, the local troopers are suddenly on the phone
• 13:50
  with the FBI.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: It must have been absolute chaos trying to coordinate all.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That, and the physical evidence solidifies the connection beyond a
• 13:58
  shadow of a doubt. Forensics units take the Walther point
• 14:02
  three to eight zero pistol he used to end his
• 14:05
  life and they run ballistics on it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, can we do a quick deep dive into ballistics
• 14:10
  because I think people hear that word on TV all
• 14:12
  the time, but they don't really know how it works.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Ballistics isn't just about matching the caliber of
• 14:17
  the bullet, like, oh, it's a point three to eight
• 14:19
  zero bullet, so it matches.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It's much deeper than that sid microscopic.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. When a gun fires, the firing pin forcefully
• 14:26
  strikes the primer of the bullet. Then the bullet is
• 14:29
  forced down the barrel of the gun and the extractor
• 14:32
  mechanism throws out the empty casing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Right the brass shell that pops out.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, and every single one of those mechanical actions leaves tiny, microscopic,
• 14:41
  totally unique scratches and impressions on the metal of the
• 14:44
  casing in the bullet.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: It's basically like a fingerprint for a gun.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: That is exactly what it is. No, two guns, even
• 14:50
  of the same make and model, leave the exact same scratches.
• 14:54
  So investigators compared the empty casings found at the scene
• 14:57
  in California, the casings found at the scene in New
• 14:59
  jer and the test fired casings from the wal thir
• 15:02
  point three to a zero. They founded the cat skills.
• 15:05
  It was an exact, indisputable match. The gun ties it
• 15:09
  all together physically.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Wow. But the truly horrifying reality is that the spree
• 15:13
  wasn't necessarily over, was it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't because alongside the addresses and the murder weapon,
• 15:18
  they found.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: A hit list, a physical, printed list of targets.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, he had a list of over a dozen potential targets.
• 15:25
  This included medical professionals, other judges, and specifically it prominently
• 15:30
  mentioned New York Chief Judge Janet M. Defiork.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: He even had her photograph in.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: The car with them, which tells investigators two incredibly disturbing things. First,
• 15:39
  his grievances were vast and meticulously categorized. And second, if
• 15:43
  he hadn't pulled over in the cat Skills to end
• 15:45
  his own life, there very well could have been a third, fourth,
• 15:48
  or fifth door bell ringing in the days to come.
• 15:51
  He was on a continuous mobile campaign of violence.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Gro Law enforcement has the gun, they have the hit lists,
• 15:56
  they have the motive seemingly laid out in these documents,
• 15:59
  But then they look at the time hineline, and the
• 16:01
  logistics just do not make sense.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: It seems impossible at first.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to play Devil's advocate here for a second.
• 16:06
  If you look at the physical reality of the suspect,
• 16:09
  we're talking about a seventy two year old man who
• 16:11
  is terminally ill. How on earth does he pull off
• 16:14
  a complex cross country assassination mission that spans nearly three
• 16:18
  thousand miles in just eight days.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is how he exploited the very specific,
• 16:24
  totally unprecedented conditions of the world in July twenty twenty.
• 16:28
  Oh wow, Yeah, we really have to rewind our minds
• 16:31
  to that exact cultural moment. This is the early, highly
• 16:35
  chaotic era of the COVID nineteen pandemic.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Right, society is completely fractured. Protocols are changing on a
• 16:41
  weekly basis, there is immen's social distancing happening.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And crucially, everyone is wearing masks. Masks are mandatory, especially
• 16:49
  in public transit hubs. Prior to twenty twenty, if a
• 16:52
  man walked into a major train station wearing a surgical
• 16:55
  mask and a hat pulled low over his eyes, security
• 16:58
  would immediately flag him. He'd be seen as a suspicious
• 17:01
  individual attempting to conceal his identity.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: But in July twenty twenty, wearing a mast was a
• 17:07
  mandated public health measure exactly.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: It provided the absolute perfect, socially acceptable invisible disguise. Surveillance
• 17:15
  footage actually captured Den Hollander at the San Bernardino train
• 17:19
  station in California on July seventh.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: This is four days before he killed Angeloucci.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was wearing a mask, blending in perfectly with
• 17:26
  thousands of other anxious travelers. Nobody looked at him.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Twice, So the timeline basically goes like this. He takes
• 17:32
  a train out to California, he arrives, rents a car,
• 17:35
  and drives up into the mountains to Crestline which is
• 17:38
  near Angelucci's secluded home.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: He waits, he executes the hit on July eleventh, Right,
• 17:43
  he leaves.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: The dead man on a porch, and then what how
• 17:45
  does he get out of there so fast?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: He drives back down the mountain into Los Angeles. He
• 17:51
  ditches the rental car, goes straight to Eli's union station,
• 17:54
  and calmly boards an Amtrak train heading east.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Just gets on a train, Yeah.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Catches him wheeling a standard rolling suitcase. On the exact
• 18:03
  same day he commits a brutal point plank murder. He
• 18:07
  is sitting in a train car, completely anonymous, behind a
• 18:10
  medical mask, moving steadily across the continent.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Wait, but this is the part that completely boggles my mind.
• 18:17
  Why a train?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Well, if you just committed a murder and you want
• 18:20
  to get to your next target in New Jersey as
• 18:22
  fast as possible, why not fly a flight from lax
• 18:26
  to Newark?
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Is what?
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Five hours across country? Amtrak train takes days. It's slow,
• 18:31
  it's cumbersome, it seems like a terrible getaway vehicle.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: It all comes down to the physical security infrastructure of
• 18:38
  the United States. Think about the TSA. Okay, if you
• 18:41
  are carrying a wal Ther point three eight zero semi
• 18:43
  automatic pistol. You cannot get that through airport security without
• 18:47
  triggering a massive logistical and digital paper.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Trail right because of the metal detector is an X
• 18:52
  rays exactly.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: You have to declare it, You have to lock it
• 18:54
  in a hard sided case, surrender it to agents, and
• 18:57
  your name is immediately flagged in the system.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And if you try to just carry it on in
• 19:01
  your bag, you are arrested at the X ray machine immediately.
• 19:04
  Airport security is a heavily fortified checkpoint.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: It's an impenetrable wall for a guy carrying a murder weapon.
• 19:10
  But train travel, specifically cross country Amtrak travel does not
• 19:15
  operate under TSA level security protocols.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Really, there are no metal detectors.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: No, it is a highly porous artery. You can walk
• 19:23
  into Union Station with heavy suitcase, buy a ticket, and
• 19:26
  step right onto the train. No one is X raying
• 19:30
  your bags, No one is putting you through a millimeter
• 19:32
  wave scanner. Wow. The train gives him the ability to
• 19:36
  transport a recently fired murder weapon across multiple state lines
• 19:40
  without triggering a single alarm.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: And the days he spends on the train actually work
• 19:45
  to his advantage, don't they?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: They absolutely do. They create a massive geographical and temporal buffer.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Right because while the San Bernardino police are locking down
• 19:53
  the local mountain roads and setting up perimeters and looking
• 19:56
  for a getaway car in California, the.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Killer is already a thousand one miles away, probably reading
• 20:01
  a book in a sleeper car moving through the Midwest.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: It's chilling.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: He arrives on the East Coast, steps off the train,
• 20:07
  rents another car, drives into New Jersey, executes the second
• 20:11
  attack on July nineteenth, and then drives north to the
• 20:14
  Cat Skills to finally end it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: The meticulous, cold blooded nature of that planning is staggering.
• 20:20
  It requires a level of operational security, patience, and just
• 20:24
  analytical thinking that is truly terrifying.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: But it brings up the biggest question of all for me.
• 20:29
  The physical evidence, the gun, the rental cars, the Amtrak tickets.
• 20:33
  That answers the mechanical question of how Roydden Hollander did
• 20:36
  it right? The logistics, Yeah, but to understand why, we
• 20:39
  have to look back at his life. And this is
• 20:41
  where the deep dive takes a really unexpected turn, because
• 20:45
  his resume completely shatters our preconceived notions of what a
• 20:48
  domestic extremist looks like.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: It truly does when society hears a phrase like lone
• 20:55
  wolf domestic terrorist, we have been conditioned by media and
• 20:58
  history to visualize a very specific archetype.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Right. The stereotype is basically the marginalized basement dweller. We
• 21:07
  picture someone uneducated, highly isolated from society, maybe struggling to
• 21:11
  hold down a minimum wage job.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Someone who gets radicalized on the dark, unmoderated corners of
• 21:16
  the Internet because they have no real world prospects or community.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: We tend to think of extremism as a symptom of
• 21:23
  societal failure in poverty.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: But Royden Hollander was the absolute antithesis of that stereotype.
• 21:30
  Let's look at his pedigree because it is crucial to
• 21:32
  understanding how he weaponized the system.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's hear it.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: He was born in nineteen forty seven in Midland Park,
• 21:38
  New Jersey, and he had a top tier, gold standard education.
• 21:42
  He actually earned a jurist doctor from George Washington University
• 21:46
  Law School in nineteen eighty five.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Wow. For those who aren't deeply entrenched in the legal world,
• 21:51
  GW Law is a highly respected, fiercely competitive law school.
• 21:55
  It's located right in the heart of the nation's capital.
• 21:57
  You don't just coast through a place like that, No,
• 21:59
  you really don't.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And he didn't stop his education there either. In nineteen
• 22:02
  ninety seven, he earned an MBA from Columbia Business.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: School and ivy le MBA. Okay, so he's not just
• 22:09
  highly educated. He holds degrees that open doors to the
• 22:12
  absolute highest echelons of American power and commerce. So what
• 22:17
  did he actually do with that education?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: His career trajectory was initially incredibly elite. He worked at
• 22:22
  the Irs Office of Chief Counsel, and then he was
• 22:26
  an associate at Krevath, Swain and Moore.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Wait, I have to stop you, Kravath. Yes, for those
• 22:31
  listening who aren't corporate lawyers, Kravath, Swain and Moore is
• 22:35
  not just a law firm. It is arguably the most prestigious,
• 22:39
  elite white shoe law firm on the planet.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: It is legendary.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Getting hired there is incredibly difficult. It requires being at
• 22:45
  the absolute top of your class at a top tier
• 22:48
  law school, and the culture there is intense.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: They literally invented the Kravat system.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Right yes, which is all about hiring the smartest young lawyers,
• 22:56
  paying them top dollar and training them to be exhaustive, relentless,
• 23:00
  and essentially perfect in their legal analysis. You work brutal
• 23:03
  hours and you are trained to view every single legal
• 23:06
  issue as a battlefield where you must leave absolutely no
• 23:08
  stone unturned.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah. And the training he received at Kraviv is
• 23:12
  absolutely essential to understanding his later.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Actions because it taught him how to fight right.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: He was operating at the highest levels of the legal profession,
• 23:22
  learning how to dissect arguments, overwhelm opponents with paperwork, and
• 23:26
  relentlessly pursue an objective.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And his career wasn't just domestic, right, It took some
• 23:31
  wild international turns as well.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It did. He worked as a private investigator for Kroll
• 23:36
  Associates in Russia.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Kroll like the massive corporate investigations and risk consulting from.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: That's the one they essentially do private intelligence, spionage and
• 23:46
  complex fraud investigations for massive corporations.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: So he's not just a corporate lawyer. He's trained in
• 23:52
  corporate intelligence. He knows how to track people down, how
• 23:55
  to uncover secrets, how to operate in the shadows.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And he was doing this in Russia in the nineteen nineties, which,
• 24:01
  if you know your history, was essentially the wild West
• 24:04
  of capitalism after the fall of the Soviet Union.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a highly dangerous, unregulated time.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: It was a high stakes, dangerous environment. The records even
• 24:13
  show that during his time in Russia he managed his
• 24:15
  corporate intelligence work so successfully that he actually spoke at
• 24:19
  the Kremlin in nineteen ninety three.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I really need to pause and just chew on this
• 24:23
  because it is so wild to comprehend. You're calling him
• 24:25
  a lone wolf terrorist. But if he is appearing on
• 24:29
  Fox News later in life and he's walking the halls
• 24:31
  of Columbia University and giving speeches at the Kremlin, is
• 24:35
  he really a lone wolf?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Wasn't he a highly integrated member of the elite who
• 24:42
  actively sought a pack and audience. I think it is
• 24:45
  so important for you, the listener, to recognize that radicalization
• 24:49
  isn't restricted to the fringes of society, right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: It doesn't just happen in dark basements exactly.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: An Ivy League degree, a corner office, a six figure salary,
• 24:58
  these do not make you immune to extremism.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: That is a phenomenal point. He was not a lone
• 25:03
  wolf in the sense of being socially isolated from society's institutions.
• 25:07
  He was deeply, deeply embedded in them.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Why do we use that term?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: The term lone wolf here applies specifically to his operational execution.
• 25:15
  He carried out the murders entirely alone, without a terror
• 25:18
  cell backing him up. But his radicalization happened in plain sight.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: And his education kind of fueled it.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, his elite education didn't prevent his radicalization,
• 25:28
  it provided the precise tools for it. He took the
• 25:31
  exhaustive adversarial training of a Kravath lawyer and the surveillance
• 25:36
  skills of a Kroll investigator, and he just weaponized them
• 25:39
  for his own personal vendettas.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: So, how does a guy go from speaking at the
• 25:43
  Kremlin to dying in a rental car in the Catskills?
• 25:46
  What causes that incredible pivot?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: The pivot seems to be deeply personal and intensely psychological.
• 25:52
  In two thousand, he married a Russian model named Angelina Shippolina. Okay,
• 25:57
  but the marriage lasted only nine months. It ended in
• 25:59
  a highly volatile, deeply bitter.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Divorce and dun Hollander didn't just walk away quietly, did he. No.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: He accused her of having ties to Russian organized crime
• 26:08
  and publicly claims she only married him for a green card.
• 26:11
  This personal failure, this perceived profound a betrayal, seemed to
• 26:16
  act as the spark that ignited a deep, all consuming
• 26:19
  paranoia within him. By twenty sixteen, his paranoia was so
• 26:23
  all encompassing that he posted documents on his own website
• 26:26
  listing Russian lawyers to contact, quote if something happens to me.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: He honestly believed he was being hunted.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: He was completely convinced of it.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: So the paranoia is really setting in. But he's still
• 26:36
  a functioning lawyer at this point. How does he apply
• 26:39
  his elite legal training to this new paranoid worldview?
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: He transitions into a career of filing high profile, deeply antagonistic,
• 26:49
  and often entirely frivolous lawsuits.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: He essentially stops practicing normal.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Law, right, he stops using the justice system to seek
• 26:56
  actual justice or practice corporate law, and he starts using
• 26:59
  it as an arena a place to litigate his deep
• 27:01
  seated personal grievances against women and society at large.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: He weaponizes legal procedures exactly. And the lawsuits he filed,
• 27:07
  I mean, when you read them, they sound almost like
• 27:09
  punchlines to a bad joke. But he was deadly serious
• 27:12
  about them. He was like he sued bars and nightclubs
• 27:15
  over ladies night drink specials.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, he argued that charging women less for a drink
• 27:21
  on a Tuesday was unconstitutional gender discrimination against men, it's absurd.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And he sued Columbia University, his own alma mater, over
• 27:29
  their women's studies courses, claiming they were discriminatory and violated
• 27:33
  civil rights laws.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: To understand the malicious mechanism of this, you have to
• 27:37
  realize that filing a lawsuit costs time and money for
• 27:41
  the defendant, regardless of how absurd or frivolous the claim is.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Right, because you still have to hire a lawyer to
• 27:47
  respond to it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Did Hollander knew this intimately? He knew that by filing
• 27:51
  these massive, exhaustive legal briefs using that intense cravat training,
• 27:56
  he could force universities and small local businesses to spend
• 28:00
  thousands and thousands of dollars on defense attorneys just to
• 28:02
  get the cases dismissed.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: He was using the courts purely as an instrument of financial.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Harassment, precisely. And he didn't just file these quietly in
• 28:10
  the background either. He aggressively sought the spotlight.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, he loved the attention. He became a minor celebrity
• 28:15
  in what is known as the manisphere, or these online
• 28:18
  anti feminist circles.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: He even appeared on television.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he went on the Colbert Report, completely leaning into
• 28:24
  this angry, litigious, combative persona. He went on Fox News.
• 28:29
  He liked being the face of this fringe movement. He
• 28:32
  wasn't hiding in a basement. He was actively demanding airtime exactly.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: He wanted an audience for his grievance. And as part
• 28:40
  of this crusade, he got involved in a much larger,
• 28:43
  more legitimate legal battle, which one was that he was
• 28:46
  challenging the constitutionality of the male only military draft registration. Okay, yes,
• 28:51
  this specific legal battle is going to become the absolute
• 28:54
  epicenter of the tragedy. But I want to linger on
• 28:57
  his transformation for a moment, because what we are seeing
• 29:00
  is the external manifestation of a deeply held radical ideology.
• 29:05
  He viewed society as fundamentally broken inherently rigged against men,
• 29:09
  and he viewed himself as the ultimate tragic victim of
• 29:12
  a feminized system. Every single time a judge throughout one
• 29:15
  of his frivolous lawsuits, he didn't see it as a
• 29:18
  failure of his legal merit.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: He saw it as proof.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, he saw it, his absolute proof of a massive
• 29:23
  systemic conspiracy against him.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, but frivolous lawsuits and angry television appearances are one thing. Right.
• 29:29
  You can be an angry litigious crank your entire life,
• 29:32
  waste millions of dollars of court time, and never hurt
• 29:34
  anyone physically.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Plenty of people do exactly.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: So what turns a bitter lawyer into a murderer? How
• 29:40
  do we cross that threshold from a courtroom to a
• 29:43
  front door with a gun.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: It's a massive escalation, it is.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: And the answer lies in a collision of two massive factors,
• 29:50
  a two thousand page manifesto and a ticking biological clock.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Let's examine the writings first, because they really provide the explicit,
• 29:58
  terrifying blueprint for his mindset. By twenty nineteen, den Hollander
• 30:03
  had self published and posted a twenty twenty eight page
• 30:07
  document online.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Twenty twenty eight pages. I mean, the sheer volume of
• 30:10
  that is staggering. I want you to picture what that
• 30:12
  looks like printed out.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: It's literally reams and reams of paper.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It is not just a diary. It is the life's
• 30:17
  work of a man utterly consumed by anger. It takes
• 30:20
  a monumental amount of focus and obsession to write two
• 30:23
  thousand pages about how much you hate the world.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: And the contents were violently extremist. The document was a sprawling,
• 30:32
  hate full screed espousing sexist, racist, and deeply misogynistic views.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And we have to pause here and make a mandatory
• 30:39
  impartiality note. In this document, he goes on these highly
• 30:43
  charged political.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Attacks, right, he mentions volunteering for Donald Trump, and then
• 30:47
  he viciously attacks Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Justice Sonya
• 30:52
  Sodmayor exactly.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And I want to be perfectly clear to you listening.
• 30:55
  We are entirely neutrally reporting the contents of these sources
• 30:59
  just to understand and his mindset.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're absolutely not endorsing or taking any political sides here.
• 31:04
  We're just looking at the evidence left behind to understand
• 31:06
  the radicalization process.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Yes, So, in this manifesto. He raged against
• 31:12
  women in general, female judges, specifically feminists, and a vast
• 31:16
  array of political figures he deemed his enemies.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: He blended an in cell like ideology, this profound toxic
• 31:22
  rage against perceived emasculation and sexual rejection with a highly
• 31:26
  virulent strain of misogyny.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And when we talk about in cell like ideology, I
• 31:30
  want to make sure we're explaining what that actually means
• 31:32
  in a sociological context.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: It's important to define it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's not just about being lonely or sad. It
• 31:37
  is a highly structured, radical worldview that believes men are
• 31:41
  biologically and socially entitled to female attention, and that society
• 31:45
  has unfairly elevated women, resulting in the systemic, deliberate oppression
• 31:49
  of men. Is a worldview that inherently dehumanizes women, reducing
• 31:54
  them to objects of conquest or targets of blame. Den
• 31:58
  Hollander completely absorbed this ideology and fused it with his
• 32:01
  own narcissistic belief in his intellectual superiority.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: And that fusion is what made him so incredibly dangerous.
• 32:08
  He didn't just feel rejected romantically. He felt that his
• 32:11
  absolute genius was being actively suppressed by an inferior system.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: In this two thousand page document, he zeros in on
• 32:18
  his specific motives for the violent attacks we discussed earlier.
• 32:21
  He outlines exactly who he hates and why.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about those specific motives because on the surface,
• 32:27
  targeting Mark Angelouci makes zero sense.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: It seems counterintuitive, right if they were both prominent men's
• 32:32
  rights activists, both fighting against the military draft, why would
• 32:36
  dun Hollander travel across the country to kill someone ostensibly
• 32:39
  on his own side.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Because in extremist circles, the bitterest, most violent rivalries are
• 32:45
  often internal. It's all about purity testing.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And ego ah ego.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, both den Hollander and Angeluci were deeply involved in
• 32:55
  challenging the male only military draft. Angeluci's organization, the NCFA,
• 33:00
  had successfully filed a major lawsuit against the selective service system.
• 33:04
  Den Holander had briefly been involved in that legal effort.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: But he didn't stay involved, did he He was push out?
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. Leadership at the NCFM confirmed the den Hollander was
• 33:12
  expelled from the group because he flew into an uncontrollable
• 33:15
  screaming rage over not being named lead co counsel on
• 33:19
  the draft case.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Remember his massive ego. He is a Columbia MBA, a
• 33:23
  former Kravat lawyer. He genuinely believed he was the only
• 33:26
  one intelligent enough to argue the case exactly.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: He wanted the prestige, he wanted his name on the
• 33:31
  Supreme Court filings. He wanted total control.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And when he was pushed out, he turned.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: His bottomless hatred toward them. He publicly denounced the group
• 33:39
  as whimps and whiners. He viewed Mark Angeloucci not as
• 33:43
  an ally fighting the same fight, but as a bitter
• 33:46
  rival who had stolen his spotlight, usurped his glory and
• 33:50
  publicly humiliated him.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: So Angelici was targeted out of pure professional jealousy and
• 33:55
  a perceived betrayal of ego.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, but what about Judge esther Seller. Why did he
• 34:00
  travel across the country to New Jersey to target her
• 34:03
  family's home.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Judge Sallus was the federal judge assigned to preside over
• 34:07
  his own separate, competing lawsuit regarding the military draft oh
• 34:10
  I SI. In his manifesto, he spent pages and pages
• 34:13
  viciously attacking her. He directly accused her of intentionally stalling
• 34:17
  his lawsuit for political reason.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: It just couldn't handle losing.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: He believed that because she was a female judge, a Latina,
• 34:23
  and appointed by a Democratic president, she was inherently biologically
• 34:26
  biased against him and was intentionally sabotaging his life's work
• 34:30
  to protect a feminist agenda. He completely weaponized his own failures.
• 34:34
  He couldn't accept the reality that the federal legal system
• 34:37
  just operates slowly, or that his legal arguments might have
• 34:40
  lacked actual merit.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: No, he had to blame someone else.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: He internalized the basic bureaucratic pace of the court as
• 34:46
  a malicious personal attack orchestrated by the judge herself, and
• 34:51
  this ideology of grievance eventually tipped over into an explicit
• 34:54
  ideology of violence.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: There is a quote from his writings that we have
• 34:58
  to talk about. It is chilling.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I have it right here, let me read it. Den
• 35:02
  Hollander wrote, things begin to change when individual men start
• 35:06
  taking out those specific persons responsible for destroying their lives
• 35:09
  before committing suicide.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: That sentence, that is the absolute thesis statement of his rampage.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: He is no longer just complaining online.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Right, he is prescribing violence as a necessary, logical and
• 35:21
  inevitable next step. He's framing Murder's suicide not as a
• 35:25
  tragedy but as a legitimate political tactic.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: But again, he wrote that in twenty nineteen he had
• 35:30
  held these hateful views and filed these frivolous lawsuits for years.
• 35:35
  So what was the spark? What was the final catalyst
• 35:38
  that made him finally log off the Internet by a
• 35:40
  gun and put on that delivery uniform.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: That's the terrifying part.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting. It wasn't a new
• 35:47
  political development, it wasn't a lost court case. It was
• 35:50
  his own mortality.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: In early twenty twenty, Den Hollander publicly announced to his
• 35:55
  online followers that he was, in his exact words, painfully
• 35:59
  dyeing from metastasized cancer.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Medical records later confirmed he was suffering from terminal melanoma.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Yes. In June of twenty nineteen, citing his declining health
• 36:08
  and severe illness, he had officially handed off his remaining
• 36:11
  legal work to other attorneys. He was staring death directly
• 36:15
  in the face.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: The cancer diagnosis completely altered the stakes of his life.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: This raises an incredibly important question. What keeps most people
• 36:23
  with extremist views from acting on them.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Consequences right exactly.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: It is the societal deterrent of consequences. It's the fear
• 36:30
  of going to prison for the rest of your life,
• 36:32
  the fear of ruining your reputation, the fear of losing
• 36:35
  your assets.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: The entire criminal justice system relies on the assumption that
• 36:39
  people want to live and preserve their freedom.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: But when a doctor tells a narcissist filled with a
• 36:44
  lifetime of rage that he only has a few months
• 36:47
  left to live, that deterrent completely evaporates. The societal gravity
• 36:52
  that holds us in check simply turns off.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: He realized he had nothing left to lose. He even
• 36:57
  mentions in his writings the decision to pursue quote cowboy justice.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, the terminal illness essentially removed the societal guardrails. His
• 37:06
  mix of radical ideology and Boomer era misogyny was allowed
• 37:10
  to metastasize, much like his cancer, into lethal kinetic action.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: He realized that because he was going to die anyway,
• 37:16
  he could inflict maximum devastating pain on his perceived enemies
• 37:20
  without ever having to face a judge, a jury, or
• 37:22
  a jail cell.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: The cancer gave him permission. In his own quisted mind
• 37:26
  to become a monster.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: He truly thought he was writing the final glorious bloodsoak
• 37:31
  chapter of his manifesto. He silences himself on that rural
• 37:35
  road in the Catskills, believing he has struck this mighty
• 37:39
  blow against the system he hated. But did he exactly.
• 37:43
  Let's look at the aftermath and the legacy of this
• 37:45
  horrific spree because his actions forced a massive nationwide reckoning,
• 37:50
  but it was the exact opposite of what he intended.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Let's start by honoring the legacy of the victims, because
• 37:56
  they really are the center of this story. Daniel Andrel
• 37:59
  was only two twenty years old.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: He was a college student, looking forward to his junior
• 38:03
  year at Catholic University, just celebrating his birthday.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: And Daniel Andral is remembered as a hero family and friends,
• 38:10
  and an official family statement emphasized that when the door
• 38:13
  opened and the gun was raised, Daniel didn't freeze.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: No, he stepped right in front of his father.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: He lost his life heroically stepping up to protect his
• 38:20
  parents when the gunfire started. His legacies on a profound,
• 38:24
  instinctual courage.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And Marc Angelucci, despite den Hollander's twisted, jealous views of
• 38:28
  him was deeply mourned by his colleagues in his community.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: The NCFM, the organization den Hollander thought he was avenging
• 38:36
  or destroying, officially condemned den Hollander's extremism and distanced themselves
• 38:41
  entirely from his violence.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: He didn't become a martyr for their movement. He became
• 38:44
  a pariah. They completely rejected him, and.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Then there's this systemic fallout. Den Hollander's attack on Judge
• 38:51
  Salas's family exposed a gaping, terrifying loophole in how we
• 38:55
  protect the people running our justice system.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Judge Sallas survived the unamous d horror of losing her
• 39:01
  only child in her own home, but instead of retreating,
• 39:05
  she channeled that horrific grief into fierce, immediate legislative advocacy.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: She became a force of nature. She pushed for something
• 39:12
  called Daniel's Law.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Let's unpack Daniel's Law because it addresses the exact vulnerability
• 39:17
  den Alnder exploited. What does this law actually do?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Daniel's Law was designed to enhance security and privacy for
• 39:24
  the families of federal and state judges, as well as
• 39:27
  law enforcement officers.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: How does it work practically?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: At its core, it strictly restricts the public availability of
• 39:33
  these officials' personal information. It makes it illegal for data brokers,
• 39:38
  government agencies, and businesses to publish a judge's home address,
• 39:42
  personal phone numbers, or vehicle information online.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Meaning if you are a disgruntled litigant or an extremist,
• 39:49
  it should be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to simply
• 39:54
  google where a federal judge sleeps at night exactly.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: It removes the easy roadmap, because that's.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: The terrified paradox of a free society, isn't it. I
• 40:02
  want you, the listener, to really think about this. We
• 40:05
  demand that our judges, our lawyers, our public officials exist
• 40:09
  within our communities.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: We want them to understand the real world right.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: We want them to go to the local grocery store,
• 40:15
  to live in standard neighborhoods, to be an active part
• 40:18
  of the society they are serving and judging. We don't
• 40:21
  want a judiciary that lives behind fortified castle walls, completely
• 40:24
  detached from everyday life.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: But the delivery man Ruse proved that everyday community life
• 40:29
  is highly porous.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: It really is. You can't live in a fortress if
• 40:33
  you want to be part of a community. But if
• 40:35
  you're in a community, someone determined to do harm can
• 40:38
  just walk up to your front door holding a FedEx
• 40:40
  envelope and bypass every security measure you have.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: It is a profound vulnerability. How do you secure a
• 40:46
  soft target when the target is someone's front porch?
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Right? So what did the government do besides Daniel's Law?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: As a result of these murders, the FBI dramatically heightened
• 40:56
  its scrutiny of domestic extremism, specifically focused on the threat
• 41:00
  of lone wolf actors targeting public figures nationwide. Judicial security
• 41:05
  protocols were completely overhauled.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: The US Marshals got involved with Yes.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: US marshals were given expanded budgets to monitor online threats
• 41:13
  and perform intensive home security assessments for judges.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Which brings us to the ultimate glaring irony of roy
• 41:20
  Den Hollander's life and death. So what does this all mean?
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Well, if we connect this to the bigger picture, we
• 41:26
  see the absolute pathetic failure of Den Hollander's mission house.
• 41:30
  He wanted to strike fear into the hearts of the judiciary.
• 41:33
  He wanted to punish his enemies He wanted his two
• 41:36
  thousand Paces manifesto to inspire a massive revolution of violence
• 41:41
  that would tear down the system he believed oppressed him.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: But what did his violence actually achieve in the real world.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: He achieved the exact diametric opposite of his goals. He
• 41:50
  didn't destroy the justice system. He catalyzed massive bipartisan efforts
• 41:55
  to protect it right.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: He brought unprecedented resources and legislative power to secure the
• 41:59
  gu Dictionary.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: He united people across the political spectrum in condemning his
• 42:04
  specific brand of violent misogyny. His spree achieved absolutely nothing
• 42:08
  for his twisted cause.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: It only amplified calls to protect the vulnerable and reinforce
• 42:13
  the strength of the exact institutions he hated.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: He wanted to be a conquering hero, a vanguard of
• 42:18
  a new movement, and instead he is just a dark,
• 42:21
  pathetic cautionary tale about how unchecked personal grievances fueled by
• 42:25
  an echo chamber can boil over into real world violence
• 42:28
  that destroys innocent lives.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Let's briefly recap the incredible journey of this deep dive.
• 42:34
  We started with two ringing doorbells on opposite ends of
• 42:37
  the country, a secluded mountain home hidden in the California Pines,
• 42:41
  and a quiet suburban house in New Jersey.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: We explored the terrifying cognitive hack of the delivery uniform.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: We followed the physical evidence, the ballistics the hit list
• 42:52
  to a rental car abandoned on a rural road in
• 42:54
  the Catskills.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: We broke down the logistical nightmare of cross country train
• 42:58
  travel during a pandemic.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: And from there we journeyed into the dark, paranoid mind
• 43:03
  of an ivy league educated, white shoe corporate lawyer who
• 43:06
  transformed into a lone wolf extremist.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: We saw how the evaporation of consequences brought on by
• 43:12
  a terminal cancer diagnosis unleashed a highly planned, devastating vendetta.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: This matters to you, the listener, because it is a
• 43:19
  stark reminder of the invisible vulnerabilities hidden in our everyday routines.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: The trust we place in the uniform, the sanctity of
• 43:26
  our front steps, the digital footprints we leave behind.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And it's a critical reminder of how hatred, when left
• 43:33
  to fester and an echo chamber of grievance, can turn anyone,
• 43:37
  regardless of their elite education, their prestigious resume or their
• 43:41
  background into a lethal threat.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: And that leaves us with a final vital question to ponder.
• 43:46
  We know exactly what happened to the physical evidence Roydon
• 43:49
  Hollander left in that rental car in upstate New York.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Right The state p Lice secured the walter at point
• 43:54
  three to eight zero, They catalog the hit list, they
• 43:57
  process the vehicle, and they close the physical case.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: What happens to the two thousand pages of hate he
• 44:02
  left online? As a society, we are working incredibly hard
• 44:06
  to reinforce our physical front doors with critical legislation like
• 44:10
  Daniel's Law. We are scrubbing addresses and hiding public records.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: How do we begin to secure the digital doors exactly?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: How do we address the online echo chambers where these
• 44:19
  massive written manifestos remain permanently archived on servers, just waiting
• 44:23
  to be found and consumed by the next person who
• 44:25
  feels the world owes them vengeance.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: It's a heavy thought, a monumental challenge for our digital age,
• 44:31
  but an absolutely necessary one to consider as we move forward.
• 44:34
  Thank you so much for joining us and spending your
• 44:36
  time on the steep dive. We'll catch you next time