Latest / New Thinking for a New World / The Leadership Journey

Transcript

The Leadership Journey · New Thinking for a New World

• 0:02
  Speaker 5: Welcome to New Thinking for a New World, A Tilburg Foundation podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 5: I am Alan Stoga your host.
• 0:09
  Speaker 5: Each week i bring you conversations with people who think differently about the great issues that are shaping our world Geopolitics Disruptive Tech Mass Migration The Changing Climate Culture Wars.
• 0:21
  Speaker 5: All of it is grist for our mill!
• 0:28
  Speaker 5: and that you join the conversation at telbergfoundation.org.
• 0:33
  Speaker 5: And now for today's episode of New Thinking
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: For
• 0:43
  Speaker 6: A New World.
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: In this special edition of New Thinking for a New World, Tilburg Foundation board members Helena Nielsen and Tom Cummings explore with the three laureates the challenges facing leaders today.
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: Listeners Rhett, Brian & David discussed some issues as well as the challenges that each face on their own leadership journeys.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: So I first want to acknowledge Helena and I'm Tom Cumming's.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: we are on The Tilburg Board.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah,
• 1:30
  Speaker 0: we would like to get the opportunity... ...to talk with you and listen into your thoughts on leadership.
• 1:39
  Speaker 0: This is a leadership prize.
• 1:41
  Speaker 0: in The Jury Tom We get the privilege of having ongoing conversations around what is leadership?
• 1:48
  Speaker 0: What does global mean?
• 1:53
  Speaker 0: What do humanistic values mean?
• 1:57
  Speaker 0: What is needed for the future?
• 1:59
  Speaker 0: And how do we see leadership in communities, but also in individuals like three of you sitting here.
• 2:07
  Speaker 0: But who's very interested?
• 2:10
  Speaker 0: what impact does it have and How has that impact grown or built?
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: so one of those questions That We Have to start off and we'd encourage You To Talk Through each other about this a little bit Is what we saw on The Jury.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: that was a really important thread between the three of you, was your capacity to not only lead from the front but encourage others to come along.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: And we want understand better what kind leadership is there and how do we cultivate more?
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: For me when facilitating in front of thousands or even ten thousand people success on long lines of Mark Mitton is a disappearing act.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I'm really successful, it was like i was never there and my identity almost as completely irrelevant in that way can serve lots different communities.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: all the sudden community needed to have conversation about topic dividing them or you know the topic couldn't be spoken up direct terms.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: they're talking in their own way.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: And so, I didn't really...I don't think of that as leadership until maybe you ask the question but i think it's a form of leadership to disappear.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: and I also think because if the leaders who bring our work to their institutions whether its military general or surgeon or judge or warden of prison head of an NGO those leaders know That in order to be effective leaders when it comes to questions, especially of mental and spiritual health They have to create leaderless moment Where they hear from the lowest ranking people on the room The people who are most institutionally vulnerable.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: There're ones that you need a mic.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And so I think is an active leadership To create leader-less moments.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: You know its working When your hear form the lowest At least powerful.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: think there's so many different types of word talking to a group of leaders.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So this is like, A group of newly recognized leaders talking the group of well-defined... Anyway we're not gonna.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: but they idea that There are so many kinds Of leadership.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you know and i also Think each moment Calls for a Different type of Leadership at That Moment.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: You Know?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: It's very flexible.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: some Moments Like The Leader Should Just Disappear Into The Room.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: But I used to think in my version of this whale that i'm wearing, there's a listening shirt which is part of our new campaign called Listen To The Whales.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Which Is A Continuation Of Save the Whales but starting with Listening and I Think In The Way.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: By My Team I Have Fifty Scientists And They're All Different Like Computer AI Specialists And Robotics lawyers and marine biologists, but really listening.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And I think that everyone feels.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: if I can listen to them and really hear whatever they're even their profession what is it?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: That drives the roboticist versus an AI specialist.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: in just really understanding their work and the challenges that they confront every day Is kind of a key thing.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: so iIthink sometimes we are feeling like We should react.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But uh In my line Of Work I find leadership starts with listening and really careful listening.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And then kind of figuring out where the needs are, but yeah sometimes it's... The need is there to be in the back?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they're needed at the front?
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: David I remember you had some surprising moments when You started working in Dominica.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: They can't read what's on your mind.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: How do you bring that to them beyond listening, too?
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: What their needs are?
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: how does that happen?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I think That's also trust building and we talked.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of it came up in the topics.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: this today Was about Trusts.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: i feel like that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You know they were Like Can We Predict These Scenarios Without Trust?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: And In This Scenario Was Showing.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: showing Up and Being Seen Is A is as trustworthy and therefore The Benefit of the island and they're to help.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: So it's all also about just showing, you know?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Showing not telling which I feel is something whenever there's assistance being made whether its overtly or covertly helping And i think eventually that builds trust in our work in Dominica as well.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: There a sunset plan in place for The Org And we want our organization to be actually run.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: We're doing our work in Dominica, oh and the Eastern Caribbean.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: The idea is that have this be entirely Dominican Run by the time we leave.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: so Setting up the project So that's baked into how the projects built That everything's donated and does go to them and showing that Is kind of how we showed.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: but yeah it was a challenge
• 7:39
  Speaker 0: David.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean...I agree with everything you're both saying and sometimes disappearing as part of leadership and listening is also critical i would say.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Also another component is knowing when to step back which Is basically what both of You were we're saying.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: but When I started Maka Beza As a non-profit like this junk shirt
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: where
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: had an idea But it was not the person to implement It because I wanted to start an Indonesian environmental news service because like, i had listened and knew that there was a need for this can have real impact.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But I'm An American who doesn't speak indonesian so You know not a great place to start but I figured if I could find resources To enable Indonesians to do This.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: you Know it could happen.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: And thankfully as able to define the resources and by announced through The world that uh Muggle Bay is going to launch in Indonesia People who got excited about that and then crazy enough to think this would actually happen.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So I went over there, hired a team.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: just let them do their thing because again they know much better than i do how build the new service in Indonesia.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: so it works really well And started replicating the model of other places.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: but its always about having autonomy bringing resources.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: They call the shots.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: My role as leader is from behind at point.
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: What do war lessons from Gaza, rethinking education, peace in Ukraine and visionary leadership have in common?
• 9:16
  Speaker 7: They are all themes from recent episodes of this podcast.
• 9:20
  Speaker 7: Check out more episodes on tellbergfoundation.org or a platform over your choice.
• 9:40
  Speaker 0: One of the things that you discussed then was this moving back, being silent.
• 9:44
  Speaker 0: But you also talked about what are the moments when I as a leader doing the work
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: You know providing a framework because sometimes people during the pandemic for example, A lot of people Panic might be right word but you know The world was kind of overwhelming and so they look to me too Provide guidance in some stability And somethings don't have answers.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: But you can provide this stability which could then help Answers emerge from a process Of listening speaking things like that.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's really In those moments where leadership is called For?
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: think I want to be a little bit provocative here.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Someone said recently, we seem have leaders who find imaginary problems say they can fix it.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: don't listen to experts hire buddies or grift millions fail miserably and then brag how great it went?
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: And i wanted...i wanna just ask How do we overcome the toxic leadership that were seeing in world today?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would start with listening because really you said it but was listening to whales or trees?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: To hear their perspective on your planet destroy the environment.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Um i think It really just starts with listening.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: and uh Yeah, I live in a place where there's we're at the center of toxic leadership.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So II live into looking valley And Uh You know A lot of problems come from our area But I don't have.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: my first suggestion is really just on that listening point and being responsive and and you need That feedback loop grown up with people who've gone on to make vast sums of money, and one of the problems I see happen over-and-over again is people lose that feedback loop.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: They're surrounded by people.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: just tell them how great they are... And say yes to everything.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Humans need that feedback!
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: By definition when you don't have that feedback your not listening.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: then it can go in all sorts of very strange directions.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: And i still want know how YOU came out differently from that Silicon Valley crop?
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: What was the shift in your mind?
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: that said there must be a different way?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a tricky question because obviously they don't have their mindset.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Maybe i've never had the windfall...I would like to say this is not the case but uh.. I think empathy might be it!
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Just always thinking about....to you point at the ants- I'm just saying I'd be looking into the yard with little ants and I know people who come over and squish them and horrified me interested in the well-being of these other entities, and then wanted to understand how things around me in world worked rather than making assumptions.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: So one of my life philosophies are minimize assumptions.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: another is not offer unsolicited advice again.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: so it's listening.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's so much allure towards the negative, it's easy to focus on the darkness.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And i think that's something...I used to study bioluminescence and what I liked about the idea of biolumbinescence is then I would have to go into the darkness to find a little bit like a little going animal.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: um..and I think with that kind of question we have so much....all of us probably have so many toxicity that revolves around our work and we just do it in repeat.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: And like, we wish... We have lived in a culture where empathetic leaders were rewarded which we are here.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: so this is what's beautiful about the moment you know?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: It feels good to be there even allowing myself that I can't let them feel good but they're all awarding leaders who have empathy.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: So i think This Is Part of What Needs To Be Done into not letting.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: sometimes their stories want to come into the room.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: They're begging for attention, you know?
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: All the time it's like they unnamed trillionaire is just begging for a tension all the time and the more we give attention then where we feed that energy.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: so probably the best idea is how... I guess an example of this in this whale culture that was sharing The currency is collaboration.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So the currency of helping why were those whales spending all day not eating?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Is that because... That's their currency.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: And if they don't do, then the will have a bad reputation and it'll be kind of not part of the group.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So I just like the idea.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you know there are other modalities in living Of where collaboration and empathy could more deeply ingrained into how we move to this direction.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: It does feel one of the byproducts of capitalism is The rewarding of certain psychopathology to most corporate leadership structures.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I've worked for a few corporations where that hasn't been the case, so i know it's not always the case but It's amazing to see the pattern play out over and over again?
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Also you know involved with number of awards...I think about awards all the time.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: You know sometimes it feels really gross like I don't have the Oscars.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: things like guys Like this is necessary And I Think The Answer Is A. Louis Mennon wrote a piece in New Yorker Where He Sort Of Asserted That In a capitalist society awards are how we Accord value to things that have no value.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Though film doesn't like an indie film.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Doesn't have value wins and Oscar now it has value in it, you know.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: And empathetic leader has no value in the corporate context.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: but all of a sudden is seen by Talberg and for A moment a fleeting moment.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: if he's meaningful to us We obviously never different value.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: So I think we have to find more ways invest value in the types of leadership that we want to see.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: But I think, but also find a way to resist the rewarding of psychopathology and narcissism because it's why were living on the world.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah so i'm inspired every day by people who have essentially nothing or doing incredible things in the world.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: whenever I feel like you know whatever if your kind hopeless I look at an example often our website somewhere else where someone is come from, you know absolutely nothing and planted a million trees.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And it's like okay what did I do today?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I guess I give in hope by... Like i've given talks to very young students about What Might A Whale would be saying and just seeing how interested and How You Know..I feel there was such a kind of inherent curiosity Of that they're finally here.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Oh some adults are doing something That I could relate To.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I was trying to know what other animals are saying.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: They're just the curiosity and this next generation that's coming in
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Some weeks my company Theater of War Productions.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: we perform tragedies six nights a week for communities have experienced really awful things And people say where is the hope?
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: And for me, the hope is not in the plays we perform.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Those depict people learning too late and destroying themselves and generations to come.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: But the hope isn't the audience that comes together To bear witness of truth Of play How it resonates with their experience.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: The hope from me In that We can come together Lift each other out of isolation Into community That have technology within all us I see at night after night.
• 17:45
  Speaker 0: Thanks
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to this episode of New Thinking from New World.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: I'm Alan Stoga, podcast host and i look forward your joining our next conversation.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: remember tell us what do think at telbergfoundation dot org.