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REWIND: Forgotten Sports Years: 2007 · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: My name's Tim Hannon and I am joined by my good friend Steve Ward.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Steve.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we are going to look back at the year in sports two thousand seven.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're calling this a forgotten sports year because 2007 was not a year where any of our sports teams won championships here in Pittsburgh.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, no one's walking around with a 2007 t-shirt or baseball cap or something, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but there were a lot of significant events that happened in 2007 that we think are worth remembering.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna go through those uh in more detail.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but before we get into sp the year in sports, let's talk a little bit about what was happening in Pittsburgh in 2007.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in 2007, Luke Ravenstall is elected mayor of the city at age 27.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: He becomes the youngest mayor in the city's history.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Whether or not he did a good job, we'll leave that for a different podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like when he didn't he change his name to Steelers Stall or something.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or something like that, because they were playing the Ravens in the playoffs, I think.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I did I don't know why.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was saying I did look up what he's doing, and he's uh coaching football North Catholic.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is he really?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he he I think he's a teacher or something there too, or something else, or a district magistrate, so good for good for Mayor Luke.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then he had a great role in the uh the was it the Dark Knight.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: The Batman movie, yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he was the kicker, right?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he was.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: How appropriate.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh also in 2007, Allegheny County passes a smoking ban, but it is overturned in courts.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, Steve, in 2007, when you walked into a restaurant, they still ask you smoking or non-smoking.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute, but we do have a smoking.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they just came back and rewrote it or something.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So in 2008, the year after this, the state passed a ban, and that overrode like all the county or or local bans that people tried to pass and got overturned.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, cool.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't, but that wasn't until 2008 that Pennsylvania passed a statewide ban.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, in 2007 there were still smoking indoors.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Telling people what to do with their bodies.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like funny how you know certain groups of political people pick and choose how they want you to, what they want you to do with your body.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not allowed to smoke, but you gotta take other stuff.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Also, indeed, not making a slippery slope argument.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: 76-year-old grandmother, Marilyn Devine, is convicted of robbing the National City Bank Branch in West Mifflin.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: How old was she?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: 76.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe so short on Social Security that that week.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they I apparently um her son was in financial trouble.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: The the gun she used wasn't loaded, so they they gave her house arrest.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Prosecutors declined to seek the mandatory five to ten year sentence.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: They they didn't exactly throw the book at her because it would be like a life sentence at 76.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Just a bad decision, I think, on her part, a desperate decision.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of took it easy on her with house arrest.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that was nice.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, don't don't rob banks even if you're 76.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not a good idea.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So is even, you know, age is no, you know, determiner of uh wisdom, I guess.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get to the year in sports, and we'll go we'll go chronologically, and uh obviously starting with January.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And on January 5th, right at the beginning of the year, Steelers head coach Bill Cower announces his retirement.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's called a resignation at the time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's all these theories that you know Cower uh had a falling out with the Rooneys, and he's gonna go coach the New York Giants next season or whatever.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but none of that ever happens, and as of the time of this recording, uh Cower indeed never does coach again, so it really is a retirement.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Good for him.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I think, yeah, I honestly think he had enough.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't see him uh pulling a dick for meal and coming out of the booth and coming back.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I really don't.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think he's done.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Good for him, man.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: He won his Super Bowl and rode off into the sunset.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And congratulations, Bill Cower.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it worked out for him.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wonder too, his wife was ill.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: No one really knew that at the time.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe there were some personal issues, wanted to spend more time with his wife.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Good for him, man.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I think he's had like a great retirement.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, boy, if I could have that kind of retirement, I'd be all right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sit on, you can say whatever you want on TV football, nobody's gonna second guess you, you know.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: You could be absolutely wrong, and nobody's gonna care.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: He has like a rock star wife.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, does he have like a rock star wife now?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like he's doing all right, man.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: So so Cower rides off into the sunset, as Steve said, but now the Steelers need a new head coach, and that's something that's akin to a Pope being coronated.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I think we see yeah, the white smoke comes out of the uh offices at the south side, I think.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Signifying a new Steelers.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: The Cardinals have voted the Steel There's a new Steelers head coach.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and as we talked about in our last fun facts episode, that it's even rarer than a new coach or a new pope being coronated.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've had three.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think since 1969 we've had five popes.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: The three.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: We've had five popes and three coaches.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, nice.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Good for you, Steelers, beating the Catholic Church or something.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the Steelers ultimately go with 34-year-old Mike Tomlin, and Steve already covered all the drama behind that in a recent episode we did about Super Bowl 43, and Steve you talked about how Wizen Hunt went to Arizona.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Russ Grimm supposedly was offered the job, but then he wasn't.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not going to get into all that again.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Go listen to um Steve's detailed description of that that whole drama.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but some ground that we didn't cover in that episode was the reaction of the locals to this hire.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who's this my Tomlin?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it it was well, I mean, it wasn't it was interesting because this really was, when you think about it, Steve, it was a risky hire.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because the Steelers had gone with young, unproven coaches the previous two times with Nolan Cower.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: But the team sucked both of those times, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like in this in 1969, the Steelers were garbage.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And in 1992, the Steelers had were coming off basically a just a terrible decade.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So the the risk was not super high.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: But here in 2007, they're 11 months removed from winning a Super Bowl.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So to go with a 34-year-old guy that's never been a head coach, that was that was a risk.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the reactions, I kind of categorize the reactions into three categories, which is some people like it, some people don't like it, and some people completely go off the deep end.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and there's no there's no widespread Twitter in 2007, but the Pittsburgh Post Gazette had a blog in gold message board, and thanks to the magic of the Wayback Machine website, you can actually go and read the messages posted on the day that Mike Tomlin was hired.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I pulled just a few of those off, a few of those deep end ones that I could find.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one person said almost as big a mistake as cutting Johnny Unitis or not drafting Dan Marino.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Another person said, Well, Super Bowls are out of the question.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: All steel are stuff in the garbage, not wasting my time following this waste of time.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's a don't even give them a chance.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, oh, this is where people were.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: One person said uh we're headed for another 30 years resembling the 1933 to 1969 era.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody else said we'll be lucky to go two and fourteen next year.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was our record?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Our record was like 10 and 6, wasn't it?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we won the division, but you know, we were lucky.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: 2-14, 10-6.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the same.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: He was close.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then my uh my favorite one is this one.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: He says, My thoughts go out to Nate Washington, Brett Keisel, and all the other players who were up and coming under Cower.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's scary that the Rooneys would sell out their players like this.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And Steve, I know that when Tomlin got hired, my first thought for sure was what will become of Nate Washington.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he he will definitely cash in with a big free agent contract, that's for sure.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that was yeah, that was the that was the people going off the deep end.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, like people not even you know giving him a chance.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know why that caused such a strong reaction.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that part of it was people were not happy and still aren't happy that we have a black coach.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: They would have rather had a white coach, and the people won't say that out loud.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I know.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and is that a big percentage, people?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it probably the bigger percentage is just the the the tendency we have in this culture to just have a hot take on something instantly and then never back down from it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that might have been more of it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And people the fact that there were so many candidates, I think people kind of wanted their guy.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like people wanted Russ Graham or um Ron Rivera or whoever, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So so when you look at the people who were kind of more in the I don't like it camp instead of the going off the deep end camp, I think a couple of cons main concerns people had.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: One was the thing I mentioned before that some people just wanted an experienced coach, somebody that had been a head coach before, because this was a team that was capable of winning more Super Bowls, had a young franchise quarterback, and handing over the reins to somebody that potentially doesn't know what they're doing, it was was a risk.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was another group of people very, very concerned that Tomlin was going to switch from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 defense.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: He did it eventually, just took him 10 years.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I mean that that was that was just an interesting concern.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: People were so up in arms about that because that was the defense that Tomlin ran in Minnesota, and he's gonna ruin who the Steelers are.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I mean when you don't know the person, you know, is he gonna be smart enough to like stick with what's working?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what he did.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know a lot of other coaches might have been like kind of dumb enough to do that, but well, maybe that's an advantage too of hiring somebody young.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Rather because if you do hire somebody that's got yeah, maybe they're set in their ways whereas he's gonna like okay, take a lot of Dick LeBeau's advice.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I I just thought that was interesting.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: People were so married to the 3-4, and this is the stealer way, and it's like, did you forget that we won four Super Bowls with a 4-3 defense?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but I think I I think I can see their point, like, this is what we have, this is what's working, this is what the personnel works for it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what Mike Tomlin looked at the situation and said, Why am I going to mess?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even have the people.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you do with Casey Hampton and a 4-3 defense?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that really goes back to having a Super Bowl caliber team and not wanting to not wanting to mess with that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Even even though they had a disappointing season in 06, they still had uh all those pieces in place.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So to your point.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was another group too that thought that Dan Rooney was just trying to prove a point about the Rooney role since the Rooney roll was his role.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think that I think he got surprised.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think he he interviewed him for the to satisfy the Rooney role, but I think I've even heard quotes by him like, hey, you know, you never know, maybe a candidate comes in and wows you, and they were definitely wowed by Mike Tomlin.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, and that and that was really the point of that role was to give people the opportunity that maybe wouldn't have got the opportunity before, and then it you know, if they were the right candidate, like in this case, Tomlin was.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well now it's just it's a be it's it doesn't work.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like a lot of great ideas that just don't work in the real world.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you know, hire the best candidate.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care about who they are or ethnicity or what what boxes they check, but I know that's not a popular opinion anymore.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's gotta check a check a check a certain number of boxes.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, the point of it was that somebody may have never even got a chance, and like you said, now that person that you wouldn't have even thought to interview wows you, and you're like, wow, this is a really good candidate that we may have overlooked otherwise.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if that's if that's the point, then that's a good thing.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But Tim, that's not how it works now.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now they just give token interviews.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm uh I'm saying that's the that when it works, that's the point of it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Tomlin ends up obviously taking the team to two Super Bowls.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: He does have the best winning percentage in the history of the team.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: He also underachieves with a very stacked offense in the 2010s and loses to some teams in the playoffs that he shouldn't lose to.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um we won't get into the details.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: We've done that in our three coaches episode.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Another one to go back and listen to about Tomlin's legacy compared to Coward Knowles.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: But um, that's that's how the year starts, is with a Mike Tomlin hire.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um like I said, some people like it, some people don't, and some people I think it's worked out for the best for us.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I could complain about a Super Bowl and another Super Bowl appearance.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be nice.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I it feels like we underachieved a little bit with that one group, but I think I think that was on the players as much as the coach.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know if Russ Grimm would have worked out better, honestly, or Ron Rivera or whoever.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll take it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Also, in the early part of the year, there is some drama with the arena.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So what had happened back in 1999, Mario Lemieux had bought the Pittsburgh Penguins out of bankruptcy, and he does this knowing that the pens desperately need a new arena.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: The Civic Arena, even in 1999, the Civic Arena is the oldest building in the NHL.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and at the time when Mario steps in, saves the team, all the local politicians, of course, back him up.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Mario, we'll get a deal done just like we they had recently for the uh the Sears and Pirates to get them new venues.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, fast forward a few years and no one in state or local government has done anything for the penguins.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So the pens go out and find an alternate solution.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and what had happened was gambling was legalized in Pennsylvania in 2004, and part of that law mandated that a casino would be built inside the city of Pittsburgh.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins strike a deal with Isle of Capri casinos.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the deal is that if Pennsylvania awards a license to build the Pittsburgh Casino to Isle of Capri, then they will basically build the city a new arena free of charge.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: What a great deal, Steve.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: No taxpayer money for this arena.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's going to be a casino here regardless.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Why not solve the arena problem at the same time?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: It made perfect sense to everybody except the people in government, because government doesn't operate in the same reality as the real world does.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: On a personal level, this is what opened my eyes to politics.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird that like I finally realized, like, I always wondered, well, what's politics all about?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is what politics is all about.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry, Ed Rendell.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ed Rendell is the problem.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he's not, he's just an example of the problem.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Longtime Democrat Party insider with the Clintons, Hillary and Bill, long time guy.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And all he does is come in and pound a shoe on the table like he's freaking Kirchjeff and say, we're not going to act all tough with the Penguins when he gives the Flyers and the Eagles a brand new stadium in Philadelphia because that's where Ed's from.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's Ed don't give a crap about Pittsburgh.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, and it was all about power and control because they would have not had any control over who the Penguins would have hired in that new arena.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: They might have not had union employees, they wouldn't have owed the politicians anything, they could have moved out whenever they wanted.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bad deal for politicians and a great deal for the people.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a bad deal.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when the people in charge don't represent the people anymore, and that's pretty much where things are nowadays.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care about all these, all the issues they say they care about, they don't.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: What they really care about is being in power and telling who gets what, when, and where.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what this is all about.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so what do they do?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: They build an arena with taxpayer money and a bond issue, give the casino to who is it, uh, drone Bettis's group, and that guy doesn't even own, Bardon doesn't even own that casino anymore.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: He went bankrupt and had to sell it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just and they built the casino without a stage or a venue.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who builds a casino?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what casino in the world doesn't have a place for like musicians to come in and stuff?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you used to go down to the casino and they would literally have another sign for like Garth Brooks, whoever's coming into town in wheelie.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: They would literally advertise because they never built until just the last couple years a hotel and a and a like concert venue.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, what ends up happening is the the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board, as Steve mentioned, awards the Pittsburgh license to a Detroit-based developer named Don Bardin.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and Bardin wasn't even remotely expected to get the license because he was he was kind of small time compared to Isla Capri and these other bidders.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was a group from Cleveland and Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think Harris, like these big Vegas, you know, these big time casinos.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And Bardin was kind of, again, kind of small time.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it ends up being a terrible decision because, again, as Steve said, about a year or so later, Barton ends up not having the financing for the project.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And they eventually have to scramble to get someone else to step up and build it instead.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And when they when they talked about what drove the decision, there there were a couple things you're just shaking your head at.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: One was there was language in the state's gaming law that created diversity goals for ownership of casinos, and Bardon is African-American.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: So to your point earlier, Steve, about checking a boss.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's an excuse.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's an excuse.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's not they don't care.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't care what color that guy was.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't Mario.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think they did at all, Tim.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I uh what did I say?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Power and control.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a guy they could control.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that they didn't care.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: He could have been as white as anybody else, and they would have given him it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It just was an excuse.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was political cover.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that was.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I think they wanted to check a box.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, again, like we talked about earlier, that's not the point of those things.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Point of those things is to give opportunity, and I think you hurt the marginalized groups you're trying to help when you when you give somebody something that's clearly not qualified.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they made the decision, board member Jeffrey Coy is quoted as saying, quote, a lot of us became tired of hearing how we were the ones to save the penguins for Pittsburgh.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: So apparently, spite maybe is also a reason they didn't give Mario the casino.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh to your point about Governor Randell, so the the gaming board was independent, the governor had no Yes, he he appointed Tim, he appointed well here's what he here's what he did.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, how appended, how app uh you know, come on.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what he did, Steve.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: He he had worked out this plan B.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So because he had worked out this plan B ahead of time, which was totally unnecessary, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of what Rendell did.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then the gaming control board said that that also influenced their decision because, well, that's not the only way the penguins can get an arena.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So so that's how Rendell, to your point about wanting to do it his way, that's how he controlled it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: He he gave the gaming control board this.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, don't worry, if it doesn't work out, we have something else.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: He gave the gaming control board cushy jobs and they owed their job to him.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if they didn't vote the way that he wanted, they were gonna be gone.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Possibly.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: But possibly, if you believe anything else, I got I got you know a wall in China, I'll sell you.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my point, my point just being that that they they basically made it where it was very easy for them to.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't understand why you wouldn't this group's gonna build you an arena.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: So why not just take it?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point, that that's why they didn't, because it's like you said, it was a control thing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So after after that decision, all hell breaks loose.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Mary Lemieux in January of 2007, he goes and visits Kansas City.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Other cities that reportedly have expressed interest in the franchise include Houston, Winnipeg, Portland, and Oklahoma City, which is a hot set of hockey.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: The Houston Penguins would have been fun.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: The Houston Penguins would have been great.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So finally, uh the politicians step in and find a way for the Penguins to build their new arena without casino money.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: On March 13th, Officials agree on a 30-year deal to keep the Penguins in the city with a$290 million uptown arena scheduled to open in the year 2010.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Mario Lemieux takes the ice that evening at the Civic Arena, and he says this.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do have an announcement to make.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight, I'm proud to announce that your Pittsburgh Penguins will remain right here in Pittsburgh where they belong.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Pittsburgh.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great night.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't stop believing as long as Ed Rendell says it's okay.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's alright with me.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I it's if if you if that that just totally like I said, that chan that totally opened my eyes to how politicians are And that that's what it is.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
• 23:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I'll get a let me get off my soapbox.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's just that's always been a hot button issue for me.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like that was a big turning point in how I viewed politics.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I don't think it's I don't think it's any one side or one party.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think they all operate like that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, they all do that.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure in Republican-held towns they do the same thing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't play ball, they're not gonna let you do it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the mafia just with you know legitimate mafia.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's all yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was ridiculous.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: The whole thing was ridiculous.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and the decisions they made, they gave the casino to a guy that couldn't afford to build it.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm happy that the Penguins are still here.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's talk about what happened in March.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So in March, the Pitt men's basketball team finishes the season 29 and 8.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, do you remember who the leading scorer on that team was?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Dewan Blair?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Sam Young.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Good guess.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's center Aaron Gray.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they were a little earlier.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever happened to Aaron Gray, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you in a minute.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Some other standouts on that roster, Sam Young, who you mentioned, Antonio Graves, LeVance Fields, Ronald Ramone.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Some some names from that team.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't say, you got to say Ronald Ramon.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was a great three-point shooter.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: He was, he was.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: They go into the NCAA tournament as the number three seed in the West regional bracket.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: They beat Wright State in the first round.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: They beat VCU in an overtime game in the second round.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that sets up a sweet 16 showdown with UCLA.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is kind of disappointing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and why that was a big showdown was because the head coach of UCLA is Ben Howland, who used to be the head coach for Pitt.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: He had left Pitt for UCLA in 2003, which really rankled a lot of people here in Pittsburgh.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: But Jamie Dixon became the head coach of Pitt, and he guides the program very well.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so now it's kind of like that mentor versus mentee.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of a revenge game for Pitt.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: We don't say the word mentee enough.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: We don't.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: We don't.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good word.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately for Pitt, UCLA does win that game 64 to 55.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: In their defense, didn't they go on to play in the national championship game that year?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they lost to Florida.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was that the first year or the second?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the first year they lost to Florida.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because they lost to Florida like back-to-back years.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not in the championship game, but I think in the tournament they lost to Florida twice.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was like Final Four championship, though.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: A few months later, Aaron Gray is selected by the Chicago Bulls in the NBA draft.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: He ends up playing in the NBA for about a decade, mostly as a backup.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't realize he was that long in the NBA.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wouldn't have either had I not looked it up for the first time.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't like a super great college player.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was a good player, but like I thought Blair was much better.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Young was much better.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, he's a big guy.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you can do something serviceably, then you'll always have a job.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in April, the Penguins wrap up a great season.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: They end the year with 105 points and they qualify for the playoffs for the first time since 2001.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And why that's significant is because between 1991 and the time of this recording, that was the only stretch of time where the Penguins failed to qualify for the playoffs between 2001 and 2006.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it might be approaching that again.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're recording this in the last week of the NAK regular season.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And as of the right now, the time we're recording this, the Penguins, I think, are like one point out of the playoff position.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we might have it here in 2023.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, the Penguins had not made the playoffs there for which seemed like an eternity, and here they are finally back in the playoffs.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sidney Crosby leads the league in scoring.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: He wins the Hart Trophy as league MVP.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Rookie Ifgeny Malkin, who had the Penguins had smuggled out of Russia earlier that year, wins the Calder Trophy for Rookie of the Year.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury wins 40 games, and 2007 even marks the first appearance of a young defenseman named Christopher Latang.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great season for the Pens.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Their first round playoff opponent is the Ottawa Senators.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Ottawa's a veteran team.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: They easily dispose of the Pens in a five-game series.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's disappointing, Steve.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I remember being disappointed, but not really.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think we all knew that it was just the beginning of something special.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember they went to Ottawa and they were just like overwhelmed because like I don't know.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember they went to Ottawa and they just were not ready to go.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like with the playoff intensity and the crowd and everything.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: They were they were a very young team, and and Ottawa had again, Ottawa, Ottawa ended up making the Stanley Cup finals that year.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: They were just a Oh, they had Ray Emery, didn't they?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: They had the goal.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so so Ottawa was just a veteran team.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, again, it it was it was disappointing, but you knew that you knew good times were ahead, and and of course they were.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one one other footnote here.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: After the season ends, the Penguins named Sidney Crosby as the captain.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's significant because at that point he's only 19 years old, and uh he's been the captain ever since.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Was Gary Roberts on the team yet?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, that was the next year.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was the year after.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, Sidney Crosby named the captain in 2007.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's been the captain a little bit there.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully for for a few more years to come.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: In April, also in April, the Steelers are coming up on their 75th season, and they announce a bunch of things they're going to do to celebrate that milestone.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the first thing they announced is they're going to wear throwback uniforms for the upcoming season.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this was not the Bumblebee throwback uniforms.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: This was before that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: These these were like the like black shirts with yellow numbers, yellow helmets, and white pants.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know if anybody remembers those.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: They were kind of just like blah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I it seems like whenever the Steelers go with some kind of alternate jersey, it's just kind of either like boring or ridiculous, like the Bumblebee ones.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they announced that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: They also announced they're gonna have a mascot.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And they mark out this guy who's the creepiest SOB you'll ever see.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I he's still around, Tim.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's still around.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: He um it so so the mascot that he doesn't have a name at the time.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: They they have a contest and announce a name later, but the mascot is now known as Steely McBeam.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and he looks like he looks like Bert from Sesame Street.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: If Bert gained like 75 pounds and was hung over.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Carried around the steel beam.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just a freaky looking mascot.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I never understood the appeal of Steely McBeam.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's frightening to me.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Steely.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: But whatever.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that that they marked, they announced Steely McBeam as their new mascot.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then finally, um Dan Rooney releases a book uh called My Seventy-Five Years with the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Good book.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is an excellent read.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, I Steve, I yeah, it sounds like you would agree with me that I we would have anybody.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like the story about Walt Keysling, like after they caught him, like meeting, like they met Johnny United on like West Liberty Avenue and like they there driving down the street and they just like ran into him.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like crazy.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great story.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because isn't it it's the chief, Dan, and Keisling, the coach who caught him, and like Johnny Unitis like pulls up there, like on one of the red lights on West Liberty Avenue, is like, oh good luck, good luck, whatever you do next with your life, John.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, how'd that work out for everybody involved?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what that's what it is, just chock full of stories and insight.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I always thought, Steve, that the book should have been titled My Father was a very nice man who had no clue how to run a football team is really what I thought the book should have been titled because and I don't think that was the point of the book.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't, yeah, but I think you really you really get the the insight of why Dan Rooney was so important to the team.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I've I've said this on this the show before.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Dan Rooney and Mario Lemieux are by far the two most important figures in the history of Pittsburgh sports because without Mario Lemie, there's no penguins.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And without Dan Rooney, the Steelers still exists, but they're the Detroit Lions.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Am I wrong?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me I'm wrong.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, the Lions might have had one up on them because the Lions have actually won a playoff game.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's conceivably the Steelers could have never won a playoff game.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: For real.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just uh the Dan Rooney's the one that that was responsible for hiring Cacnole.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Dan Rooney's the one that was responsible for changing the way they did everything.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: The the story in there, we've told this story before, but the story in there about how his father hired Bill Austin, who was the coach before Art Rooney.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because Vince said so.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, ah, he's a good guy.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Vincent Lombardi said he's a good guy.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Dan's like, well, you know, I'm setting up interviews, we're going to do a nationwide.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, don't worry about that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, I heard Bill, I hired Bill Austin.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: He was an assistant under Vince.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I called Vince.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Vince said he's a very good coach.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the way Art Rooney ran the team.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And Dan's like, no, we're not doing it that way anymore.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the only reason that the Steelers became the Steelers is because of Dan Rooney.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: So again, go read that book for real.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a good book.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and and um not only just because of insight like that, but like Steve said, just so many good stories in it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's fast forward to June.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that's when Major League Baseball holds their annual draft.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2007, the Pirates have the number four overall pick, and they have a chance to draft an absolute can't-miss prospect, a catcher named Matt Wheaters.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is a guy who had a very celebrated college career, which isn't common in Major League Baseball drafts.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you're drafting kids that are like high school age.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: This guy had already had a full college career, and he's a guy being a catcher who could anchor your team for years to come.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: So he's going to fall into the Pirates' lap at number four.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, the Pirates shockingly pass on leaders, and they take a relief pitcher named Daniel Moskis, who, A, wasn't projected to go that high by anyone, and B, pitches a grand total of, wait for it, 24 innings in his very brief Major League Baseball career.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a legit number one pick.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and what had happened was Wheaters was represented by Scott Boris, who's they they give this title of super agent.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: When you're represented by Scott Boris, you're gonna make a lot of money, and the Pirates don't like to pay people money.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they draft Moscus instead.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Wheaters, uh, he doesn't necessarily turn into like Yogi Berra, but he does make four all-star games.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: He wins a couple of gold gloves.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: He has a pretty long and productive career.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it it just it you know, the the Pirates picked Moscow because he was going to be cheap, and they they that's how they operate the team.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's how they do things today.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why they did it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was a total slap in the face to fans.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: The also on the board for the Pirates, interestingly, was pitcher Madison Bumgardner, if they really wanted a pitcher.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: They probably could have got him for a lot less than that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's a guy who's another future all-star and who single-handedly eliminates the pirates from the playoffs seven years later.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, oops.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: But again, that's how the Pi Daniel Moskis was a relief play.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it to me it's it's very similar, Steve, to uh like when when the Colts selected Andrew Luck.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because Andrew Luck did not take them to a Super Bowl.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: He did not become Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but he was a decent quarterback, and more importantly, that was the guy they had to take.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was just any team would have, it was the camp miss, it was the right pick at that time, even if it even if he didn't turn into an all-time great, it was the right thing to do.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: He was a pretty good quarterback though, till he got hurt.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I to me it's very similar to Matt Wheaters.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was good, he wasn't an all-timer, but he was very good, and it was the right pick.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Baltimore did at the pick after us.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: They took Wheaters.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and it it would be like if the Colts, instead of taking Andrew Luck, would have taken, like, I don't know, a backup safety that was projected to go in the fourth round.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, uh literally that's the comparison.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that again, that's just that's the way the pirates do things.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's where you talked about you realizing the way politics works in 2007.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: This is when I really understood the way the pirates operate.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's when I just I I really didn't have much left in my heart for the pirates to begin with, but that's when I just said, oh, they're just they're literally just trying to sucker everybody.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is a joke.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can't I can't support this.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a bunch of other fans feel that way.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Later that season, a group of fans organized a walkout protest during the game.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think they all walked out in like the second inning or something.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't really dumbest ide.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was a dumb idea.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you buy a ticket, give Bob Nutting money if you want to have a protest, have 40,000 people literally stand outside the game and like, you know, 5,000 people in the game with nobody spending any money on the game.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the point I think the idea was, and I'm not saying it was right or wrong.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying I think the idea was that it it was it was more than a lot of people.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like a visual, like a visual leaving, like whatever.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: You you would that that would the TV cameras would see that you'd see that on Sports Center or whatever.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was more of a a visual show, but I I don't think that many people participated.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it didn't change anything, it just kind of faded into obscurity after that, and people still come and people are gonna come this year because touch is back and yay, and yay, bobbleheads, yay, we sprayed the Red Sox, woo, in April, but it doesn't matter.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's you know, and it's fun to go to the games and they have all kinds of great food, and it's a beautiful park, and that it just keeps work, keeps making money for Bob Nunning, so why would he change anything?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, much like Mike Tomlin.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't switch when you when when the business model's working.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So moving on to June, well, staying in June, I should say.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the U.S.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Open is held in Pittsburgh at the Oakmont Country Club.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, are you a member, Tim?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're a member of the Oakmont Country Club, aren't you?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am not, sadly.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're not.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: They have not invited me in yet.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I've been waiting for that phone call.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I bet it just got lost.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I bet they just they just lost by accident.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Total, total accident.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's an over oversight on their part.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: As for me, I would never join a club that would have me as a member.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: The Gratcho marks.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so the US Open's held their Pittsburghers turnout en masse for some golf.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: It actually sets the all-time attendance record for a U.S.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Open.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty impressive.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the the result of that tournament, uh, on how Cabrera wins it by one stroke over Tiger Woods and Jim Fuhrrick.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it comes down to the to the last couple holes, and Cabrera, Cabrera's your champion of the 2007 U.S.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Open in Pittsburgh.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think has that guy done anything since?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh he had a he had a couple of, I think I thought he had a couple of majors there.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was short-lived.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he wasn't I think golf, it's funny with golf, like some of those guys span you know years and years.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you look at like Tiger or Mickelson or um you know, guys like that, it's like that it's some of those guys span years and years.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Other guys kind of have these short-lived, more short-lived dominance, you know what I mean?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: So like they have like one really good year where like they almost win a grand slam, or even if they win a grand slam, and then it's kind of like they go back to either mediocrity or nothing.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, very true.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Cabrera was in that category.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh also in the summer of 2007, there's some controversy involving uh some medical findings.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: So there's two Pittsburgh doctors, Bennett Amalu and Julian Bailes, who've been doing all this research into concussions and CTE.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2007, they present their findings to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell at a league-wide concussion summit.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Dr.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Bales later says that all of their research was, quote, dismissed by the NFL.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of kicks off a very long debate over safety and football.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the NFL kind of concedes over time that there may be an issue, and they do make a bunch of changes, at least designed to make the game safer.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: You could certainly argue whether or not that's been effective.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: That whole story is later documented in a movie called Concussion, where Will Smith plays Dr.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Amalu and Alec Baldwin plays Dr.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Bales.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Steve you ever see concussion?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean it's repetitive injuries.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's been going on in boxing forever, and we still do that.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I don't know what to tell you.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what you're signing up for.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I I don't know what to say.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it wasn't that shocking.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: You play a rough game, it's you know fun to watch.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think some of the stuff has gotten better though.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like in general, like if you watch like they don't I don't know, like it doesn't seem like NFL Network shows like really old games like in their entirety anymore.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I doesn't seem like they celebrate hard hits either.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Remember that used to just be like anytime they kill clips, they'd be like, Pooh, look at this guy getting displayed.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like like there you I remember the one play, and this used to happen all the time.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's say a guy like made a really tough catch and he fell down.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was wide open, but like the quarterback didn't throw it great, and he kind of like fell down, but he wasn't touched down.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like now you'll see a guy's that come down and just touch him.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you remember back then like people used to pile drive people on the ground?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like they'd be on the ground and be like, boom, like it'd be like, well, that's part of the game.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they got rid of that, and that that's a good thing, because that that's just that's unnecessary.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: That that's definitely unnecessary.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they let that go on for and that wasn't just the Steelers, that was league-wide.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody did that.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: There were games, and too, it's still not called like I remember there was a game the Saints literally hit like I think it was Alex Smith in the head, like in the playoffs, like five times, and nobody cared.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, it's Alex Smith, who cares?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's just like weird, weird stuff like that, but it's gone too far, too.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can't you can't legislate all the violence out of the game.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can't.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what makes it football.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to your point, I think they they have done some things that have made it so it's just interesting because the the the the two doctors there felt like they were completely just ignored and the NFL poo-pooed it, but then the NFL eventually makes all these changes, so maybe maybe they actually didn't ignore it.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's much better they don't hit you really But here's my point though, and I've said this before, like, how's that any different than when a running back goes into the line and lowers his head and hits a defender?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like he's not getting concussion because he's holding a football, but a defender can can get a concussion because he doesn't have the football.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like what the laws of physics are just based on whether you hold a football or not.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I guess the improvement is that those discussions at least happen now, whereas before you just you just play it and you just keep going.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and also, you know, pulling people out of games.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of things.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the biggest like because like Steve Young definitely was a prime example of like, yeah, and there were other people, like they're too brave for their that's why you know boxing once again is a pretty they have like literally a fight doctor, and the referee, like if you're out of it, can just be like, okay, that's it, over.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you are still standing, like there's people just kind of you know, you you're you're concussed, you can't go anymore.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so there's definitely been things I'm sure that have helped, but to your feelings.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: The NFL's done that too.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have basically now like a fight doctor, like a doctor on the sidelines that can pull people out.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of the games.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go to July where the Steelers up in training camp, and usually training camp's pretty boring.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: In 2007, there's a lot of uh unexpected drama.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: So so first thing that happens is Alan Fanica, the Hall of Fame guard, he's upset about his contract situation.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he comes out and says this quote, this will be my last year as a Pittsburgh Steeler.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've been asking since February for them to trade me.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've lived in brief Steelers football for nine years, and I gave them everything I had.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: I helped them win a Super Bowl.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: In my mind, I've earned the right to be treated fairly.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so what had happened was Fanica was going into the last year of his contract.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he and the Steelers couldn't agree on a deal.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think this is Steve's sometimes there's a situation where like two things can be true at the same time.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is a good example of that because was Fannica right that he deserved to be rewarded financially after everything he had done for the franchise?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was an all-time great.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: He had helped them win a Super Bowl.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: He sprung Willie Parker on that 75-yard run in the Super Bowl.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: So did he deserve to be rewarded?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, would it have been smart for the Steelers to tie up a big chunk of their salary cap in an offensive lineman entering his tenth season at the expense of guys like Aaron Smith and Troy Polomalu, who they still needed to extend?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that would have been smart either.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's like one of those things where two things can be true at the same time.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the market dictates what you can get, and he went to the Jets and got more money.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: So boo boo-hoo, boo-hoo to you.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I Well, he got his money and you know I I and he earned it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: He earned it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: He did.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I get but I get the idea of, you know, I I've been on this team for a decade, and and and I think really what what happened was the Steelers just didn't want him back.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: They knew they would have to pay him a lot, and they just they just they couldn't afford to bring him back.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they couldn't afford to bring him back.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: They prefer to bring him back at a lower price, but but that would have been insulting to him, which which also makes sense.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Not insulting, it's just it's just he could get way more money, like you know, if it was in like a c like, oh, it's within like five percent, then like ah, you know, I like it here, whatever.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it would I I I can't remember what the Jets deal was, but it was significantly more money than the Steelers.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: So Which is good for him.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like I said, I there's no loyalty in business.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if there's not.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's not.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's where sometimes the fans get, you know, they're loyal to a player.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, I don't have no problem with somebody going, he's got a family.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, not that, you know, he's gonna, oh my god, beyond the street, Alan Fanica will block for food or something.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, you know, why shouldn't he get as much money as he can?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a problem with that.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I said, I don't think either side was wrong here.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think I think a lot of fans understood that.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't owe them anything, they don't owe him anything.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's absolutely right.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he went out and got a great deal from the Jets and made a bunch of money, and the Steelers had to find somebody else to replace them.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: So so that ends up being 2007 ends up being his final season with the Steelers.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some comment here.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Chris Key Matthew or who didn't end up replacing?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was somebody who wasn't even half as good.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean we we we detailed how the the next year they had the worst offensive line that they've ever had.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um so that that did hurt losing him.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh also in training camp, another player who's upset is wide receiver Cedric Wilson.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about a guy that has no leverage.
• 47:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Quote, I can't help it if the quarterback doesn't throw me the ball.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm running my routes, I'm doing all the right things.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: I deserve a couple of passes here and there.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: End quote.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: He also says, Steve, that he's always open.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: And just the Steelers quarterbacks just aren't throwing him the ball.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Who's he Torello and I'm always open?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, whatever.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean Cedric Wilson was a third rate for Steve.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: He was okay.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: He was like decent.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: He I mean, was he as good as Nate Washington?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Well, that's what happened.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: The Steelers the Steelers were worried about selling out Nate Washington to that guy's comment.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they had to throw him the ball instead of Cedric Wilson.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so Cedric Wilson's, you know, I think people This is before he got dismissed, I guess.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was it was the following year that he had the domestic violence incident that got him kicked off the team.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: That sucks because he was for like he was one of those guys that wasn't like great, but he was clutch.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: It like always seemed like he got open like at the right moments, and that stinks that he couldn't control himself.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean the Steelers did okay without him, I think.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: They they won a Super Bowl, so they were they were fine.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that would have been him instead of Santonio Holmes making the uh the catch-in-the-end zone.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, it still would have been Santonio, but Cedric Wilson would have been on the sideline complaining because he was open.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wide open, holding a cup of Gatorade.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh also during that training camp, the Steelers had signed a running back named Kevin Barlow.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a feel-good story because Barlow was from Pittsburgh.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: He was a star at Peabody High School, and of course, he was a big star at the University of Pittsburgh, Steve and I.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: What year is this?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: 2008?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: 2007, Steve.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally the whole theme of the episode.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: My bad.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: I skipped ahead of year.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I blipped.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're not leaving this year, just for future reference.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: We're always in 2007.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're confusing me.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: What year is it again?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: What is my name?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, Kevin Barlow.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you and I were big fans of Kevin Barlow at Pitt, and I remember being excited because the Steelers needed a guy to back up Willie Parker.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember this at all.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and Barlow was tabbed as that guy.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the reason you might not remember it is because it doesn't go well.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Barlow's real bad in the preseason games, and he's cut before the season starts, and he never plays again.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was hurt, like, because he had a decent career with San Francisco before that.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he had had some injuries, and I think he was just I don't know if he was if he was injured, injured, but he was like done.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like physically just couldn't do it anymore.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he just couldn't perform at any f level because of his injuries.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he never he ends up never playing after this.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that was that was a bummer because I again that would have been nice to see him like finish his career as a steeler, but he just he just didn't have enough gas in the tank.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh also during that training camp, Jerome Bettis releases a book that's billed as having all these like controversial revelations about his time in Pittsburgh, and that gets all kinds of coverage on sports talk radio and in the local media.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: But like at the end of the day, there's really not much in there.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh some of the some of the quote-unquote controversial revelations, he he reveals that he was ticked off over losing his starting job to Amos Airway, which, okay, sure.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Who wouldn't be a White Football player wouldn't be upset about losing their starting job?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: He also says that he faked the timing of an injury in the summer of 2000 to avoid being cut.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I remember that.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember this.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: So again, he didn't fake an injury.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: He just faked the timing of the injury.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: He he was injured.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: He just made it look like it happened during camp instead of before camp.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, oh, what a scandal, I guess.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: He also says that he thought Cordell Stewart got a bum rap from the Steelers, which again isn't exactly a scorching hot take.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I I you know, I I don't know, Steve.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just I remember that that it was like, oh, the bus.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's you know, because Jerome Bettis was not a guy that that caused No, he's not he's more vanilla than that.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's not uh Right.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's very vanilla.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's he doesn't ever cause problems, and it's like, oh the bus I'm surprised he's not the bus goes raw.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised he's not like on a national TV broadcast somewhere anymore.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I guess maybe he wasn't hot taky enough.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I again I this book was not, you know, it's like, oh, I I don't know what else was in there.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: The bus wanted to change his number to 38 once, but the equipment manager talked him out of it.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know he switched he switched from Pepsi to diape before the pregame meal.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: I like I I just it wasn't the Jerome Bettis was not a guy that was gonna have a tell all book and have anything exciting in it, but it got a lot of attention at the time.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, a lot of a lot of like that that's not normal for a steeler training camp to have that much uh excitement.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: But that one did in 2007.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: In the fall of 2007.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I bet we're gonna talk about the pirates because they're probably up to something really exciting, aren't they?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, we're done with the pirates.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: What the pirates?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: You mean they're like having like a hundred loss season again?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Here, let me let me back up.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well in April of 2007, uh, the first week of the Major League Baseball season ends, and the Pirates are mathematically eliminated.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's about that's the this pirate season.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: In the fall of 2007, though, there's a local high school football player who's taking the nation by storm.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: His name is Terrell Pryor.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's a quarterback for Jeanette High School.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: He leads Jeanette to a state title that year.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: He becomes the first player in the history of Pennsylvania high school football to run for 4,000 yards and also throw for 4,000 yards.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: And he's named the Parade National Player of the Year.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, it was really quite the phenomenon, Steve.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: I felt felt like it was almost like Bo Jackson-esque.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: He was very good.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: I remember watching one of the high school championship games with him in it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: He he dominated the game.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jeanette was like uh, weren't they like a single A or a double A?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were a smaller school.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: They were a smaller school.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: He he was really like like a man amongst boys, was they described him often.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: He he just, yeah, he was very dominant.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean his highlight reel, it was like everywhere.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just look at this play he made.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, very Bo Jackson-esque.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, look at this play, look what he did to this guy.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean people were just um I I just I've never seen before or since that level of hype over, at least over a local high school football player.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um wasn't I don't I don't remember.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm too young for LeVar Arrington.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't he pretty hyped?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: But LeVar Arrington was pretty hyped too at North Hills, yeah.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe on the offensive side of the ball.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even like I'm thinking like Tyler Palko or Yeah, but t see Tyler Palko, it it's different.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody's talented, it's one thing.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody has literally like highlight real Yeah, like national prominence.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that doesn't have like yeah.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: I well I like to get I'm too young for Tony Dorsett, and I'm not sure that that even existed back then.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's right, that's true.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's another good point.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is this was and and and maybe even uh to your point about Arrington and guys from the 90s, you know, this is the era of YouTube exists at this point.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Social media exists at this point, so maybe that's another reason why this really blew up the way it did.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so Pryor, of course, is heavily recruited by all of the major college football programs.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: He ends up going to the Ohio State University.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: So he goes to Ohio State.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: He he has a um, I don't know, like an okay career there, but it it doesn't end well.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did they win the national championship?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: With Pryor, no, they didn't.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, they don't.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, they didn't.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and then it doesn't end well because he's involved in a scandal over this laughable.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: Selling memorabilia that leads to Jim Tressel having to resign and prior dropping out of school.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: He ultimately ends up getting selected in the NFL supplemental draft by the Oakland Raiders, and his NFL career really doesn't amount to much either.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember him switching to wide receiver at one point, but I don't remember him really having great success doing that either.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he really yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he did okay at Ohio State.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I like uh Jim Trussell's a very good coach, and that's that's a shame that happened to him, but it wouldn't have happened today.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was kind of BS what happened.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think he just retired.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought I saw that he Jim Trussell just retired as the whatever whatever job he had at Youngstown State, because he went back to that's where Jim Trussell was, was Youngstown State.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, he went back to YSU.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I don't know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for a while, because yeah, he hired Bo Pellini at Youngstown State, and I'm not sure who their coach is now.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Mike Tom's at coach is there.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, interesting.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I really I was always a big Jim Trestell fan.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with the NIL stuff that they have now that's a swimming.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a joke.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Ohio State made billions of dollars with it, and they're like they sell something for like 50 bucks.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, ooh, well, you can't do that.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Rules are rolls, Steve.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Rules are rules.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, who cares?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I think again, that the the the the fair argument to me, for those things, to me, the argument is always if it's a stupid role, do something about the stupid role.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's a role and and you've gone into something, understanding the expectations.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same with like uh football players that that smoke marijuana.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, and I know they don't care about that as much anymore, but when they did, it's like you could certainly argue who cares, that's not impacting their performance, certainly not helping their performance.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like taking steroids, like it doesn't matter.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really damaging your body in that way.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really doesn't matter.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: But well, the NFL was so blatantly obvious too.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, okay, we're going to test you between March and April.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe even the second week of April.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wink, wink, nod, nod.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, dude, don't smoke a joint during the month of March.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: That easy.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of the year you can fire it up all you want.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: But but again, if like so, yeah, to your point, if you know if if there's an expectation and you've agreed to the expectation, then you really can't you don't have as much room to complain when you get punished for voting.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Just take your punishment, like you said, try and change the role.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's Terrell Prior.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's go to the month of November where there's some huge controversy, this time over the turf at Heinz Field.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: So when Heinz Field and Steve knows where this is going, yeah.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and he was there for it.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: When Heinz Field was built in 2001, the Steelers opted to go with grass for the playing surface, which was great because everybody hated the concrete astro turf at Three River Stadium.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love playing football in a parking lot.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever walk on that turf, Steve?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which one?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: Three River Stadium.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, only when the pirates were there for baseball.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess it was this I guess it was the same.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: The same turf, yeah.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like they switched it out between like the No.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a parking lot.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was terrible.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, it was great.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Grass field, uh, but the problem was they they didn't use like good grass.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was slippery, no one could kick on it, it was a just a complete mess.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it all comes to a head on the weekend of November 23rd, 2007, because on the dock at that weekend, uh on Friday, there's not one, not two, but four high school championship games to be played at Heinz Feld on Friday.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Pitt is gonna play South Florida on Saturday, and the Steelers are gonna play the Miami Dolphins on Monday night.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that's literally what, six football games on that field in the span of four days.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: So so, Steve, I I know you were there for the Steelers Dolphins game.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about that in a minute.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: Were you there for the Pitt USS game?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you walked in, you could see on pallets they had sod on rolls waiting to be put in.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the field wasn't that bad on Saturday.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was like dry and kind of dusty, but the footing was good.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Pitt did win.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Pitt, I think Pitt blew them out.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't even remember the result of that game.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: All I remember, I was there too.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: All I remember is like I didn't see it walking in.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: I actually saw it walking out of the stadium in the Great Hall.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because they were as everybody was walking out, they were starting to wheel those giant pallets into the Great Hall.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they they like took this tractor and they like plowed up the whole field.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I and I was like, I remember uh this I remember seeing those, and I and and those guys were I'm like, what do you what are you guys gonna do with those?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I I I couldn't believe that's what they were gonna do.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: They were like it and what they ended up doing was they put two and a half acres of new sod and they laid it because there wasn't enough time to dig up the whole field.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: They literally laid it on top of the old turf.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and if you've ever planted grass from sod, it it has to sort of like brute in.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and the final strip doesn't go down until Sunday night, which is less than 24 hours before kickoff of the the Stewart Dolphins game.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it ends up being a complete dumpster fire because there's heavy, heavy rainfall on Monday night.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what kind of did it, yeah.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and the field is just a quagmire.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, you were you were at that game.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, can you describe it?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even a it was mushy and like it was ankle deep mud in some parts.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're lucky not no, I don't remember anybody really getting seriously hurt.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then there was the course the famous punt where it like nestled, like it dug in.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it didn't bounce.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: It literally like the ball goes sky high into the air like a punt does, and the guy didn't feel it, which means that you're gonna be able to do it.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: I remember everybody everybody laughed.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think like they tried to make it right and do the right thing, but they should have just left the field how it was from Saturday, and it would have been muddy, but I don't think it would have been that bad.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like there were just parts of the field that it was ankle deep.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was bad.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was embarrassing.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a real embarrassment for the Roonies.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think if it wouldn't have been on Monday night, too, that was a problem.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was a national TV audience.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean that combined with the rain, combined with all the other games, uh, it causes a huge stir.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: That game, uh, no one scores any points until literally the final seconds when the Steelers, I don't know how Jeff Reed somehow kicks a field goal in that mess, and the Steelers win three to nothing.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time an NFL game had gone that long without anybody scoring points was November 7th, 1943.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: So literally, like World War II era football where you know it was just muck and grind and they plow into the line and all that.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: That that was the last time that a game had gone that long without anybody scoring points.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that was a huge, that was just a huge mess, a huge controversy.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the the good news was I feel like that was kind of the the breaking point where the the team finally decided that they needed to do something different, and it seems like it's been pretty much okay ever since then, Steve.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I haven't noticed like it is bad as it because the people used to fall on a regular basis, and I don't think it's as bad as it it was.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like it's at least decent.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the kicking doesn't seem like it's like it just seems like a normal stadium you can kick in now for the most part.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's more, and I've comp they when they built the the luxury boxes in the closed end, that that was the bigger factor.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: That wind coming in from the turf didn't help, but that was the bigger fact.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like in the open end, you really couldn't kick a 50-yard field goal.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like everybody makes them because you know the Rooneys are you know gotta make an extra buck.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like Yeah, no more home field advantage there for for the That's all right, we can call it Heinz Field again.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: So yay.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as of 2007, that was the name of the stadium.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: So no, we can call it to Heinz Field.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't see that?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he so he resold the naming rights, so now it's you know how like college stadiums have like, you know, it's like Bobby, whatever, the field of Florida States, like whatever, Bobby Baldenfield or whatever, or something like that.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, it's Stoke Walker Field at like whatever their stadium's called.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's Heinz Field is the name of the field at Accrocher Stadium.
• 1:04:24
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm thinking wisdom in the Rooney family skips a generation, but I that's just my theory.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Why my son is a very nice man who doesn't know how to run a football team.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe his kids will go be a third back to Dan.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: So well, let's wrap up 2007 with uh what happens in December, and we saved the best for last because this is by far the most memorable event of the year.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is 13-9, Pitt over West Virginia in the backyard brawl.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm not gonna go into the full details of this.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: We did an entire episode about this.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: We just um posted it as one of our rewind episodes recently, so go back and check that out.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: As a very high-level summary, what happened is that Pitt uh is a four-and-seven team, they're a 28-point underdog, uh WVU's on the cusp of the national championship, they're on the cover of Sports Illustrated, they have the most high-powered offense in the country, and they had absolutely slaughtered Pitt each of the previous two seasons because Pitt just could not keep up with them.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: They were so fast.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this this game being held at Morgantown wasn't even going to be close.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: WVU is on their way to the national title game, and somehow Pitt triumphs by the score, the infamous score of 13 to 9.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, I watched this entire game on YouTube recently.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've literally watched the entire game, and even knowing the outcome, I still couldn't believe it.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was like waiting for I was like waiting for WVU to just break the game open and take.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: a three touchdown lead.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I even even knowing how it ended, I still can't believe it happened.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: It really turned on that third quarter.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that they kept they kept the ball that like when WVU fumbled the opening kickoff, that really killed them because Pitt kept the ball I think the whole rest of the third quarter.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that that made a difference a huge difference.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think Pat White getting hurt made a difference too but I don't think that was what single-handed Lee lost the game for West Virginia.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they had so much talent on that team it wasn't just all Pat White.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: So well Pat McAfee kicked a couple uh field goals missed a couple field goals too that hurt too yeah that definitely hurt um so so like the Mike Tomlin hire like I said um I I I because we covered that uh in a previous episode I I was trying to look for uh like a different angle on this and and what I came up with is I I I tried to think of what are the the top five shocking events of any kind in Pittsburgh sports history and and I'm just talking any event so not just the outcome of a game but like a draft pick or somebody getting fired or something like that.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll ask you the listeners to to think of yours as well.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I so I tried to rank and I tried to rank okay where does 13 to nine fall into that list?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the list I came up with Steve I had I had this my number one most shocking event was Roberto Clemeni's plane crashing.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't I don't think you can really top one of the greatest uh players in the history of Pittsburgh you know who's still playing who had just gotten his 3000th hit dying in a tragic New Year's Eve plane crash um that's that's probably got to be the number one most shocking thing that's ever happened in Pittsburgh sports.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: I put 13-9 as my number two because I again I just can't think of anything else more shocking.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: I put the Penguins losing to the Islanders in 1993 as number three.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely I mean that was very shocking because that team was so good.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Jerome Bettis fumbling at the one yard line and then the Tony Pena trade in 1987 the Pirates trading Tony Pena who is their best player um I put that as my number five so that was my that was my kind of my most shocking events.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: Steve anything that well the Cabrera hit the the Cabrera hit in game seven was definitely I don't know shocking.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's a dream scoring the run you gotta definitely put that up there like that the the combination of those two guys combining to make that play happen.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would say like the Steelers beating the Colts in that playoff game and that that was that was like crazy.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: That Skiwers losing to San Diego in the championship game maybe you put that up there too yeah yeah the ghost of Stan Humphreys huh yeah trying to think of like somebody else like uh I don't know uh the pirate drug talk trials were probably pretty yeah that's a good one yeah yeah and all the all the stuff that happened around there with the mascot being involved and you definitely put that up there but but yeah I just that's what I was trying to think of is you know what what I I just again none of those things to me pops the this game because this was just I I feel like if they played this game a a thousand times West Virginia wins 999 of them.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: I really do like it's just right there right there Herbrooks we play them 10 they might beat us nine but not tonight well that's that's what it was it was it was mirac it was a miracle win that's literally what it was so again all these years later to me that's the the pinnacle event of 2007 so that's the year in sports like I said a lot of stuff happened you know no no Super Bowls no Stanley Cups nothing like that but a lot of significant things that that did have an impact on Pittsburgh sports for years to come.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Steve any final thoughts here on 2007?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Ed Rendell sucks duly noted thanks everybody so much for listening thanks for supporting the show uh please uh give us a review on whatever podcast service you listen on please check us out on social media on our website and uh we'll see you next time