Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 2 girls murdered at a local Delphi bridge, NEW TWIST!

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2 girls murdered at a local Delphi bridge, NEW TWIST! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: A night of crafting, TV, painting, selfies, videos, tiktoks. It's
0:15
Speaker 1: a sleepover, so much fun? How did everything go sideways?
0:31
Speaker 1: Abigail and Liberty The next morning, they think it's a
0:35
Speaker 1: great idea to go for a trail hike. Take a
0:40
Speaker 1: listen to this. When did you realize something was not
0:44
Speaker 1: right at all? Well, our whole family was out there looking.
0:48
Speaker 1: We all laughed. Tara, my daughter went straight over there.
0:53
Speaker 1: Derek was there. My other son come pulling in as
0:57
Speaker 1: I was leaving, and he said, what are you doing.
0:59
Speaker 1: I said, We're gonna go look for the girls. So
1:01
Speaker 1: he jumped in the car with me. We drove. If
1:05
Speaker 1: they would have decided to walk home, we drove both
1:07
Speaker 1: directions that they would have gone, both routes. We got there.
1:10
Speaker 1: We had six cars there. We were taking over everything.
1:14
Speaker 1: We split up. We walked all the trails. Cody and
1:19
Speaker 1: Kelsey went across those addition to the houses up. There
1:22
Speaker 1: were the sheriffs there yet, not yet. By this time
1:25
Speaker 1: it was a little after five. Was it getting dark now?
1:27
Speaker 1: Not yet? It wasn't, but I knew it was going
1:29
Speaker 1: And I was on the phone most of the time
1:30
Speaker 1: with At and t trying to get them to ping
1:33
Speaker 1: her phone, and they won't, They won't do it. Can
1:37
Speaker 1: you just feel that desperation just creeping in? You were
1:42
Speaker 1: hearing who I now consider to be a friend, Becky Patty.
1:46
Speaker 1: This is Liberty's grandmother who desperately went searching for her
1:51
Speaker 1: girl and of course the bestie, Abigail. But they couldn't
1:57
Speaker 1: find them anyone anywhere. And me right now in addition
2:01
Speaker 1: to an all star panel, is Becky Patty. Becky, thank
2:05
Speaker 1: you for being with us, Thank you for inviting me. Guys,
2:08
Speaker 1: of course, we are talking about two beautiful girls that
2:12
Speaker 1: first went missing in a small town of Delphi, and
2:17
Speaker 1: in the last days we believe there may be a
2:20
Speaker 1: significant development. But first listen to this. I think they
2:26
Speaker 1: were in pretty much belief that it was their children.
2:31
Speaker 1: But when you hear from an officials, it's still a
2:34
Speaker 1: little just still, it hits home. Twice. One of the
2:37
Speaker 1: hundreds of volunteer searchers found the bodies of Libby German
2:41
Speaker 1: and Abbey Williams in a wooded area near Deer Creek.
2:44
Speaker 1: It is an area accessible only by foot or on horse,
2:48
Speaker 1: well off the popular trails. The thirteen year olds were
2:50
Speaker 1: hiking dozens of police are now checking hundreds of leads.
2:55
Speaker 1: We are using resources from all the way from rolle Fort,
2:59
Speaker 1: Wayne and the southern state or the southern part of
3:03
Speaker 1: the state's police state troopers. We will stay on the
3:06
Speaker 1: job until it's done. Yes, and they're still on the
3:11
Speaker 1: job with no resolution. Let me introduce you an all
3:13
Speaker 1: star panel joining us in addition with me, Ashley Wilcot
3:18
Speaker 1: Judge Trial while your anchor Court TV at Ashley Wilcot
3:21
Speaker 1: dot com. Renowned New York psychologists joining me from Manhattan,
3:24
Speaker 1: Karen Start at Karen Start dot com with the see
3:28
Speaker 1: forensics expert and the director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
3:33
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. She and Ashley have walked the trails, seeing
3:37
Speaker 1: the scene, as have many of us, trying to find answers.
3:42
Speaker 1: No way could we anticipate what has happened in the
3:46
Speaker 1: last days. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan,
3:51
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and starvar
3:54
Speaker 1: brand new hit Poisonous Liaisons on the Street Crime Network
3:58
Speaker 1: to Alexis trust Crimoline dot Com investigative reporter Alexis, how
4:04
Speaker 1: long has it been since Abby Williams, Abigail and Libby
4:09
Speaker 1: Liberty German went missing. How long four years? They went
4:14
Speaker 1: missing on Valentine's Day of twenty seventeen. It is four
4:17
Speaker 1: years since then and no arrest Miss Patty. Four years
4:21
Speaker 1: have passed, and it seemed so many times like it
4:25
Speaker 1: was this close. Especially because of this take a listen
4:30
Speaker 1: to our friends at People magazine. Police have announced that
4:32
Speaker 1: a widely circulated photo of the main suspect and a
4:35
Speaker 1: double homicide of two Indiana teenagers was taken by one
4:39
Speaker 1: of the victims before she was killed. In February fourteenth.
4:43
Speaker 1: The bodies of Liberty German and Abigail Williams were found
4:46
Speaker 1: one day after they were reported missing. At a press
4:48
Speaker 1: conference on Wednesday, police announced that Liberty not only took
4:51
Speaker 1: the photo of the mail suspect, but she also recorded
4:54
Speaker 1: a video moments before her death that includes audio of
4:57
Speaker 1: a man talking, although officials are unsure whether a voice
5:00
Speaker 1: belongs to the suspect. That's right, they actually manage to
5:05
Speaker 1: get video and we think sound of their killer. Think
5:11
Speaker 1: about it, a little girl thirteen and fourteen years old
5:15
Speaker 1: with the wherewithal to actually get sound and a photo
5:20
Speaker 1: of the purp but still despite it all, Take a
5:25
Speaker 1: listen to w x I n TV. Yes today, the
5:28
Speaker 1: data that one tip is going to pop in on
5:30
Speaker 1: an email someplace and going to change the course of
5:35
Speaker 1: the investigation. I certainly hope. So. Three years later, Indiana
5:39
Speaker 1: State Police is Superintendent Doug Carter explains investigators are still
5:43
Speaker 1: looking for that one good tip, looking for that one
5:48
Speaker 1: good tip. To Becky, Patty, this is Libby's grandmother, and
5:53
Speaker 1: you can find out so much more about the case
5:56
Speaker 1: at Abbey and Libby Tip at c ac SHRF dot com. Becky,
6:05
Speaker 1: can you believe four years have passed there's still no resolution? No.
6:11
Speaker 1: Some days it seems like yesterday. Other times it seems forever.
6:15
Speaker 1: In the beginning, we truly thought that this was going
6:18
Speaker 1: to be solved in a matter of week, and we're
6:21
Speaker 1: still waiting. You know, when you and I met and
6:24
Speaker 1: we were talking at Crime Con, it just felt like
6:28
Speaker 1: it was just on the cusp, the cusp of finding
6:33
Speaker 1: out who took the lives of these two little girls.
6:37
Speaker 1: Years pass, four years and amazingly and the last days
6:44
Speaker 1: is there a crack in the case. Take a listen
6:49
Speaker 1: to our friends Scott Swan WTR thirteen, Our cut fifteen.
6:55
Speaker 1: We are learning new disturbing details tonight about what investigators
6:58
Speaker 1: say happened to a nine year old girl who disappeared
7:01
Speaker 1: Monday night in Lafayette. That girl's mother reported her missing,
7:05
Speaker 1: and within an hour police talk with witnesses and tracked
7:08
Speaker 1: her down at a neighbor's home. Now, according to court documents,
7:12
Speaker 1: that neighbor, forty two year old James Chadwell the second,
7:15
Speaker 1: is accused of forcing the girl into the basement, where
7:18
Speaker 1: he assaulted her and threatened to kill her if she
7:21
Speaker 1: screamed or told anyone. There are people out there that
7:26
Speaker 1: will victimize children, and this is a perfect example of
7:30
Speaker 1: this happening. So take the time to talk to your children.
7:34
Speaker 1: But I'd sell my keys, don't go outside unless a
7:37
Speaker 1: doll I'll here with you. I don't, I don't. I
7:39
Speaker 1: don't trust so many people. And this is exact reason
7:41
Speaker 1: why that nine year old girl is in the hospital
7:45
Speaker 1: right now. Chadwell is in the typical New County jail.
7:48
Speaker 1: That's right, This guy, James Chadwell the second, age forty two,
7:55
Speaker 1: behind bars without bond right now, straight out, Becky Patty,
8:00
Speaker 1: this is Libby's grandmother. Remember her describing that feeling she
8:06
Speaker 1: got when the girls didn't come home, and they weren't
8:09
Speaker 1: at the spot where they were supposed to be picked up,
8:12
Speaker 1: and they spend the whole night into the night, everybody
8:15
Speaker 1: gathering together trying to find the girls. Becky, when you
8:19
Speaker 1: heard about this nine year old little girl that lived
8:24
Speaker 1: just a few miles away, what went through your mind?
8:28
Speaker 1: I was the first thing I thought was, I was
8:30
Speaker 1: very thankful that they found her alive. I could only
8:34
Speaker 1: imagine what the parents were going through. So, you know,
8:39
Speaker 1: I'm thankful for what the police were quick and that
8:42
Speaker 1: they were able to save her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys,
8:56
Speaker 1: we are talking about a potential break, a potential nial
9:00
Speaker 1: break in the Delphi case of two little girls, Abby
9:06
Speaker 1: and Libby, Abigail and Liberty. Age is thirteen and fourteen
9:11
Speaker 1: the Asia My Twins right now. Again, thank you for
9:15
Speaker 1: being with us here at Flux Nation in series one
9:18
Speaker 1: eleven with me Libby's grandmother who was out that night
9:22
Speaker 1: desperately searching for the girls. In the last days, a
9:26
Speaker 1: major break. Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert.
9:32
Speaker 1: It's just basically down the street, It's not far away.
9:37
Speaker 1: At all, what is the likelihood I mean, no, there's
9:41
Speaker 1: not been an official connection, but Cheryl, please, what is
9:45
Speaker 1: the likelihood that a grown man, a white male, just
9:50
Speaker 1: about I think twenty miles away with molest a nine
9:54
Speaker 1: year old girl that look, the guy looks very similar,
9:58
Speaker 1: Nancy case, you can't ignore it. Law enforcement has already
10:05
Speaker 1: said there's civil you know, several similar factors. One thing
10:09
Speaker 1: we've got to look at, though, is the sex Offender Registry.
10:13
Speaker 1: There's one hundred and fifty eight registered SECT defenders just
10:16
Speaker 1: in Lafayette, just in Lafayette. So this guy's not by himself.
10:21
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait. The
10:25
Speaker 1: sex offender Registry has already been gone through with a
10:28
Speaker 1: fine tooth comb, has it not. Ashley Willcott Absolutely, yeah,
10:34
Speaker 1: So the Sex Abist Registry is one of the first
10:37
Speaker 1: things that law enforcement that investigators are going to look at.
10:41
Speaker 1: And let me say this, Nancy, as a person, you
10:44
Speaker 1: or I can look at it. You can go online
10:46
Speaker 1: and pull it up and see who's in your neighborhood,
10:48
Speaker 1: who's around So that information, thankfully public information for a reason.
10:54
Speaker 1: So I would believe that's one of the very first
10:57
Speaker 1: things that they did. But let me just say this,
11:00
Speaker 1: would it be the man next door? One hundred percent?
11:03
Speaker 1: Because statistically, so many times perpsed like this are people
11:08
Speaker 1: that we know that live close. You know, I want
11:12
Speaker 1: to go back to you, Cheryl McCollum. Isn't it true
11:16
Speaker 1: that law enforcement has already gone through the sex offender
11:19
Speaker 1: Registry and those areas. Yes, But what I was trying
11:22
Speaker 1: to say is not that they haven't gone through them.
11:24
Speaker 1: The new gentleman in Lafayette. What I'm saying is he's
11:28
Speaker 1: not unusual. One hundred and fifty eight registered. Those are
11:33
Speaker 1: the people that we know of that have been captured
11:36
Speaker 1: and convicted, not somebody, Cheryl. I know that, I know.
11:40
Speaker 1: You know, Becky Patty, has law enforcement gone through Take three?
11:46
Speaker 1: Take three? If this were baseball, Cheryl mccollumb, you be
11:50
Speaker 1: out out. Becky Patty, has a law enforcement gone through
11:58
Speaker 1: the sex offender register street they're in Delphi and surrounding Delphi.
12:05
Speaker 1: They told us that was one of the first things
12:07
Speaker 1: that they did was go through that. But I'm not
12:10
Speaker 1: sure this guy was on the red destree. I'm saying,
12:14
Speaker 1: Becky Patty, You're absolutely correct. I don't know this guy
12:20
Speaker 1: has a conviction alexus terrestrict. I haven't heard anything about
12:23
Speaker 1: a conviction. And before you can get on the Sex
12:26
Speaker 1: Registry sex offender Registry, you have to have a conviction.
12:31
Speaker 1: If this guy, James Chadwell the second doesn't have a conviction,
12:37
Speaker 1: he's not on the registry and therefore would have not
12:40
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been on the radar of law enforcement.
12:43
Speaker 1: Helped me, Alexis, I feel like I'm screaming in the wilderness.
12:47
Speaker 1: He is not, as far as I know from the
12:50
Speaker 1: arrest record that he has. He does have a rap sheet.
12:53
Speaker 1: He he has been arrested. He has served time for
12:56
Speaker 1: not for sex defenses, for drinking and dry driving, for trespassing. Nothing. Well,
13:04
Speaker 1: that's not going to lead on the sex offender registry. Okay.
13:07
Speaker 1: If that landed you on the sex offender registry, half
13:10
Speaker 1: of America would be on the sex offender registry. If
13:12
Speaker 1: you drink and drive, you end up on the sexualate
13:14
Speaker 1: You know what, Becky, Patty, your insight is correct. This
13:21
Speaker 1: guy was not on the sex offender Registry and therefore
13:25
Speaker 1: I don't think they've looked at him yet because there
13:28
Speaker 1: was no reason to look. Adam, Becky, I agree. Another
13:32
Speaker 1: thing to you, Joe Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, Joe Scott,
13:37
Speaker 1: can we just be real in moment? I don't want
13:38
Speaker 1: to get to ahead of myself on this, but can
13:42
Speaker 1: we just talk about statistics which are not admissible in court?
13:46
Speaker 1: But we're not in court, Joe Scott, come the likely
13:49
Speaker 1: they've already been through the sex offender registry, They've looked
13:53
Speaker 1: at those people, they've ouibied them, they've they've done so much,
13:57
Speaker 1: we're already investigating them. What's the likelihood this guy is
14:04
Speaker 1: gonna pop up grabbing a little girl very similar in height, size,
14:13
Speaker 1: appearance as Liberty, Germany. He's twenty miles away, Cheryl, isn't
14:17
Speaker 1: it twenty miles away? Yes, twenty miles away? Likelihood? Morgan, Yeah,
14:23
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm thinking when you begin to look
14:26
Speaker 1: at probability here and kind of the profile that you're
14:31
Speaker 1: meeting here with this fellow and his proximity. I kind
14:35
Speaker 1: of passed this out earlier, and I was looking at
14:37
Speaker 1: the mileage precisely. We're talking eighteen miles. Nancy. You know
14:41
Speaker 1: where I live. We travel eighteen miles to go buy groceries.
14:44
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's nothing. We had to go. We had to
14:47
Speaker 1: go further than that, just to go to McDonald's. Yeah,
14:52
Speaker 1: that was a big night. Okay, yeah. And the fact
14:55
Speaker 1: that he has such proximity to this location. And let
15:00
Speaker 1: me throw one more thing out at you and I'll,
15:02
Speaker 1: you know, I'll see you back into the darkness here.
15:05
Speaker 1: But what do we know about what do we know
15:09
Speaker 1: about this fellow? So far, we've heard that she was
15:13
Speaker 1: lured into a basement. Okay, yeah, you know what. Let's
15:16
Speaker 1: go through the facts. Let's start at the beginning. I
15:18
Speaker 1: like this terrest's shut crime online dot com invest to
15:20
Speaker 1: get a reporter what happened to this nine year old
15:23
Speaker 1: little girl? Not Liberty and Abbey, but then the new girl.
15:27
Speaker 1: He was playing in her neighborhood and the neighbor said,
15:32
Speaker 1: do you want to come in? Wait right there, right there, Jackie,
15:35
Speaker 1: keep the list. You know, when you go to trial
15:37
Speaker 1: and you want to show similar transaction, you have to
15:40
Speaker 1: convince the judge. First, jury's not there, the jury's waiting
15:45
Speaker 1: off somewhere. You do pre trial all the similarities and
15:49
Speaker 1: all the reasons that this prior bad act should come
15:52
Speaker 1: in in the case in chief. Right there, little girl,
15:55
Speaker 1: are you writing? Are you playing on your phone? Are
15:58
Speaker 1: you actually okay? So, young girl number one similar physically
16:08
Speaker 1: outside that's important. Victim outside outside, victim away from adults.
16:17
Speaker 1: And don't think the mom and dad were neglectful. She
16:19
Speaker 1: had been outside what alexis twenty minutes maybe, and in
16:22
Speaker 1: her own neighborhood. It's not like she was walking around
16:25
Speaker 1: downtown at a stop sign, you know, just right outside
16:29
Speaker 1: her house. Correct, Ye, just stepped away from her house, Okay,
16:32
Speaker 1: outside away from adults. Okay, so secluded in a sense.
16:38
Speaker 1: All right, then what happened? What time was it? What
16:41
Speaker 1: time was it? Alexis is the seven pm? Yes? Okay,
16:45
Speaker 1: um into Becky, Patty, this is Libby's grandmother. What time
16:53
Speaker 1: did you realize that something was wrong? What time of
16:58
Speaker 1: the day was it? It was the afternoon, late afternoon,
17:03
Speaker 1: five late afternoon, early evening. Okay, so I'm going to
17:06
Speaker 1: say what five to six? Well, we called, we called
17:09
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Well I looked at my watch and it
17:13
Speaker 1: was five twenty when I told my husband that we
17:16
Speaker 1: needed to call the police. But we knew and we
17:18
Speaker 1: had been searching since. And what time is the year
17:21
Speaker 1: was it when they went? It was February thirteenth, feb
17:24
Speaker 1: So it got dark early. Was it already dark? Was
17:27
Speaker 1: it getting dark at five pm? No, it wasn't, but
17:30
Speaker 1: it was getting very close to start getting dark. That's
17:33
Speaker 1: the reason I was. That's the reason we called law
17:35
Speaker 1: enforcement at that time, near getting dark. Now this time
17:39
Speaker 1: of the year, around seven, it would be near getting
17:44
Speaker 1: dark both times. Sorry, Alexis, go ahead. So this man
17:49
Speaker 1: sees her and says, come on inside my house. Do
17:51
Speaker 1: you want to play with my puppies. She is nine
17:54
Speaker 1: years old, and she she went in. He lured her
17:59
Speaker 1: into the house. So then this is where he attacks her.
18:03
Speaker 1: Suddenly he hits her on the head. He hits her
18:06
Speaker 1: in the head so many times that it knocked her out,
18:09
Speaker 1: and his dog, the dog that he lured her and therewith,
18:13
Speaker 1: starts biting her. He then drags her down to the
18:17
Speaker 1: basement basement of his house and he chains her up
18:21
Speaker 1: to a bed that he has down there, and that
18:24
Speaker 1: is when he starts assaulting her. Luckily, literally right in
18:29
Speaker 1: the middle of assaulting her, there are the knock on
18:32
Speaker 1: his door and it is the police Crime stories with
18:47
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, guys are talking about potentially a major break
18:54
Speaker 1: in the case of Little Libby Liberty and Abby Abigail,
18:58
Speaker 1: who first go missing and then are found dead in
19:02
Speaker 1: a small town of Delphi. I'spen four years, no answers.
19:06
Speaker 1: We've been all over it to no Avail. Is there
19:10
Speaker 1: a break? Now? You're telling me Alexis to Russia about
19:13
Speaker 1: this nine year old little girl. It's a very very
19:17
Speaker 1: disturbing story. I want you to take a listen to
19:21
Speaker 1: our cut fourteen. This is Dustin Grove, WTHR thirteen news
19:26
Speaker 1: our cut fourteen on a normally calm park court in Lafayette.
19:31
Speaker 1: It's quiet, it's quiet, our kids running around here and play.
19:34
Speaker 1: The yellow tape is still up around this home. Police
19:37
Speaker 1: parked to secure the scene and neighbors on edge after
19:40
Speaker 1: the discovery inside, and we're just sitting here going, oh
19:43
Speaker 1: my god. When we found out that it was there
19:45
Speaker 1: was a little girl. Were yeah, inside we were. We
19:48
Speaker 1: were totally shocked, like, oh my god. That nine year
19:51
Speaker 1: old girl's mother reported her missing Monday night when she
19:54
Speaker 1: didn't come home. Officers arrived, began looking through the neighborhood
19:57
Speaker 1: and eventually they ended up here at this house far away.
20:00
Speaker 1: Police say they talked to the man who lives here,
20:02
Speaker 1: then went in and found the missing girl with visible
20:06
Speaker 1: signs of injury, including bruising on her body and an
20:09
Speaker 1: injury on her lower leg consistent with a dog bite.
20:12
Speaker 1: The girl went to the hospital and forty two year
20:14
Speaker 1: old James Chadwell the second went to jail, arrested for
20:18
Speaker 1: criminal confinement. We do believe that she's being held against
20:21
Speaker 1: her will and sex and Aliston and chained to a
20:25
Speaker 1: bed and bitten by a dog, a nine year old
20:29
Speaker 1: little girl. Okay, I want to figure out what that
20:32
Speaker 1: does to a little girl for the rest of her life.
20:35
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to figure out is there a connection
20:38
Speaker 1: between this and the murderers of Abby and Libby. Karen
20:43
Speaker 1: starting your jump in, yeah, jump in, go. I think
20:46
Speaker 1: one of the most important things that you've got to
20:49
Speaker 1: recognize here is that basement was pre set, the chains
20:53
Speaker 1: the bed, the chain on the door, or the chains
20:55
Speaker 1: on the bed. The scene at Delphile was pre set
20:59
Speaker 1: and pre selected. He walked Abbey and libby a half
21:03
Speaker 1: a mile for a reason. He had pre selected that.
21:07
Speaker 1: So again, when you're looking at suspectology, that should slap
21:12
Speaker 1: you in the factor. Okay, stop right there, stop right there.
21:15
Speaker 1: Explain to me what you're saying to those that are
21:19
Speaker 1: not inside the investigation like many of us have been.
21:23
Speaker 1: When you say he walked Abby and Libby half a
21:27
Speaker 1: mile to a preset location, why do you say that?
21:30
Speaker 1: And how do you know that he picked the bridge
21:34
Speaker 1: from that bridge to where they were found was a
21:37
Speaker 1: half a mile. He selected that from when they went
21:41
Speaker 1: down the embankment and they crossed Deer Creek, he selected
21:45
Speaker 1: where they crossed. There's parts of that creek that go
21:49
Speaker 1: up to your chest. Where they crossed was maybe ankle deep.
21:52
Speaker 1: He knew it, he was familiar. That was not happenstance.
21:58
Speaker 1: There was a reason that he was able to take
22:01
Speaker 1: two victims and they didn't run in separate directions. He
22:05
Speaker 1: probably most likely had some way to bound them with
22:09
Speaker 1: this young lady. Again, in both scenes, it's daylight, other
22:15
Speaker 1: adults are around. He takes great risk in what he's
22:19
Speaker 1: doing with private homes around. Other adults are around with
22:24
Speaker 1: Abby and Libby. Other people were hiking and taking pictures
22:26
Speaker 1: and out that day. So again he's a risk taker
22:31
Speaker 1: that you know he's not going to let that stop him.
22:34
Speaker 1: They're private homes that line the trail for part of
22:38
Speaker 1: the way in Delphi. Obviously there were private homes with
22:41
Speaker 1: the nine year old victim. He pre selected what he
22:46
Speaker 1: was going to have in his basement. It wasn't like
22:48
Speaker 1: he drugger in the house and assault on the sofa.
22:52
Speaker 1: He took her into a basement that already had chains
22:55
Speaker 1: and locks prepared for that victim to be bound. Karen
23:01
Speaker 1: started joining me, new York psychologist joining us from Manhattan,
23:04
Speaker 1: Karen Stark. I was going to originally ask you the
23:10
Speaker 1: mindset of someone that would attack a young girl like this,
23:14
Speaker 1: someone obviously so much weaker than themselves. It's an example
23:18
Speaker 1: I would give to juries. For instance, when you're walking
23:22
Speaker 1: along a trail and you see a little rabbit hop
23:25
Speaker 1: across your path, you may want to pat it or
23:29
Speaker 1: hold it, but your initial instinct as not to chase
23:33
Speaker 1: it down and bite its throat out and eat it. Okay,
23:36
Speaker 1: So there's a difference in the mindset. If I see
23:41
Speaker 1: a little girl, I might speak to her or think, oh,
23:45
Speaker 1: she's such a sweet little girl. But I wouldn't think
23:48
Speaker 1: of hitting her, sicking my dog on her to bite
23:53
Speaker 1: her and hurt chaining her up and hurting her. But
23:56
Speaker 1: as I was listening to Cheryl McCollum, I was thinking
24:00
Speaker 1: about how people. We all do it. We do the
24:04
Speaker 1: same things over and over, even if they're mistakes. We
24:08
Speaker 1: have habits, we have routines. And if what charl McCallum
24:11
Speaker 1: is saying is correct, why do people do the same
24:15
Speaker 1: things over and over and not be able to break them.
24:19
Speaker 1: I've seen it in criminals. They can't think up a
24:23
Speaker 1: new m motor, simple up rundime method of operations. They
24:27
Speaker 1: do the same thing over and over and over again
24:29
Speaker 1: because they're saying that's something that they've imagined in their mind. Man,
24:34
Speaker 1: they've said all this up. As Charles said, So if
24:37
Speaker 1: you think about somebody who prays on children and especially
24:42
Speaker 1: really fight back. So it's a very easy targeting vistim
24:47
Speaker 1: and they have to trade out a certain way. They
24:51
Speaker 1: need to have a certain spot. A lot of times
24:53
Speaker 1: they want to pose a victim. If they're doing any
24:57
Speaker 1: kind of sexual harm or physical abuse, it turns them on.
25:01
Speaker 1: They're going to do it again. They're not necessarily created
25:06
Speaker 1: with the way that they want to kill. Unfortunately, they
25:09
Speaker 1: just let's get stuck in their minds and they repeat
25:12
Speaker 1: it and repeat it, and it's in fact, this is
25:16
Speaker 1: the person. And you're lucky enough to know that this
25:19
Speaker 1: is the person that actually did harm the girls. I
25:22
Speaker 1: killed them. Then, even the fact that he says, you
25:25
Speaker 1: know down there, I'm thinking to myself, you know, go
25:28
Speaker 1: down there to Abby and Libby out of the way
25:32
Speaker 1: in a place that he feels comfortable. You know, another
25:37
Speaker 1: issue here to you. Let me ask you this, Cheryl McCollum.
25:43
Speaker 1: Once he changed the girl up, Once she lures a
25:46
Speaker 1: nine year old own to the basement, sex assaults her,
25:49
Speaker 1: beats until she's black and blue, what's he going to
25:52
Speaker 1: do with her? He can't let her go. He's gonna
25:55
Speaker 1: have to kill He's going to get rid of her. Yep,
25:58
Speaker 1: he's going to get rid of her. She can't testify
26:01
Speaker 1: against him. And Nancy Again, if this was our case,
26:04
Speaker 1: one thing we would be doing immediately. They have not
26:08
Speaker 1: released you know how Abby and Libby were killed, obviously,
26:14
Speaker 1: but if choking was a factor, if they were sexually
26:17
Speaker 1: assaulted in a similar manner, if they had head injuries,
26:21
Speaker 1: if they had dog hair on them, Now that the
26:24
Speaker 1: dog was with him, but he would have that dog
26:25
Speaker 1: hair on him. Possibly good. They're looking at all of that. Okay,
26:30
Speaker 1: jump in, just got Morgan forensics. Yeah, this is this
26:33
Speaker 1: is my thought, Nancy, I think back to what Doug Carter,
26:38
Speaker 1: who was the Indiana State Police superintendent, had said, and
26:43
Speaker 1: I think Becky knows where I'm going with this. He
26:46
Speaker 1: had mentioned at one point in time that if they
26:48
Speaker 1: do have DNA from Abby and Libby scene, and this
26:53
Speaker 1: is I suspect they're going to be playing this pretty
26:56
Speaker 1: close to the vest. We know that this house where
27:00
Speaker 1: this poor little girl was taken down the basement is
27:02
Speaker 1: going to be a target rich environment for DNA. There's
27:06
Speaker 1: going to be DNA all over that place. So I
27:09
Speaker 1: think that at this point to kind of whittle this down. Look,
27:14
Speaker 1: these people are bright. They're going to compare the DNA
27:16
Speaker 1: samples that they have from Delphi along with what's going
27:21
Speaker 1: on here in Lafiette. And this is not this guy's
27:25
Speaker 1: first rodeo. I can tell you that no one has
27:28
Speaker 1: a bed in their basement with a chain where they
27:32
Speaker 1: can essentially shut out everything else. This guy, like Macket said,
27:38
Speaker 1: is prepped. So I think one of the other big
27:42
Speaker 1: questions here is what else has gone on in that
27:46
Speaker 1: specific basement. Okay, LOFFI, it's a lot bigger place than Delphi,
27:52
Speaker 1: so it's a college town it's where Purdue is, it's
27:54
Speaker 1: up in that area. So is there anybody else missing?
27:57
Speaker 1: And this guy has a type Nancy. He's not looking
28:00
Speaker 1: for college students, but he's looking for little girls. Okay,
28:04
Speaker 1: if in fact it's the same person from Delphi. So
28:07
Speaker 1: you're gonna be piecing this together along the way, and
28:09
Speaker 1: it might not just end in a fatal event. Maybe
28:13
Speaker 1: he has been exposing himself. Maybe he has put his
28:17
Speaker 1: hands on another little child at some point in time.
28:20
Speaker 1: And once this begins to unfold, and they go and
28:23
Speaker 1: they question all of the people around there in that neighborhood. Yeah,
28:27
Speaker 1: that guy creeped us out for a long time. Yeah,
28:29
Speaker 1: we had this interaction with him. Maybe nobody reported it
28:32
Speaker 1: to the police. You're gonna begin to see this narrative
28:35
Speaker 1: developed a long way clime stories with Nancy Grace. When
28:47
Speaker 1: this little girl at the beginning, we learn from the
28:51
Speaker 1: little girl that once inside the home to pet the dog,
28:55
Speaker 1: the suspect allegedly hits her in the head multiple times,
28:59
Speaker 1: strangles her, chokes her with his hands on her neck,
29:02
Speaker 1: also using his arm to put her in a headlock.
29:06
Speaker 1: And I take it that she passed out, because then
29:09
Speaker 1: we learned When the little nine year old girl comes around,
29:12
Speaker 1: most of her clothes have been taken off while she
29:16
Speaker 1: was passed out. He took her down to the basement,
29:18
Speaker 1: partially nude, where he forced her to perform sex acts.
29:22
Speaker 1: According to court documents, the girl said this guy, James Chadwell,
29:29
Speaker 1: the second forty two, warned her if she screamed or
29:32
Speaker 1: told anyone what happened, he would kill her. The little
29:37
Speaker 1: girl is missing. At about seven pm, thirty minutes after
29:42
Speaker 1: she was last seen at her home near Sagamore Parkway,
29:47
Speaker 1: the police arrived. They immediately started searching the neighborhood for
29:50
Speaker 1: the missing girl. Chadwell then tells them something. Alexis what
29:55
Speaker 1: does he tell? The cop says they're going door to door.
29:58
Speaker 1: I believe he's said something like you might want to
30:02
Speaker 1: come in here, something about the little girl had entered
30:05
Speaker 1: the home earlier but had left. And then they asked,
30:10
Speaker 1: can we searched your home? And he says yes. They
30:13
Speaker 1: find the girl alive within one hour of her disappearance, distraught,
30:19
Speaker 1: crying close on the floor beside her in Chadwell's basement,
30:23
Speaker 1: which was locked with a chain lock. You're right, Joe
30:28
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan you're right, Cheryl McCollum. This day is first
30:32
Speaker 1: signment the rodeo. He's got everything prepped, asked she Wilcot.
30:37
Speaker 1: When you traveled to Delphi and you looked at the scene,
30:41
Speaker 1: what did you learn? Listen? You know when you go
30:44
Speaker 1: and look at that scene, it's like any beautiful kind
30:47
Speaker 1: of state park, is how I would describe it. Where
30:49
Speaker 1: you might go for a walk or a run. But
30:51
Speaker 1: it's fairly isolated, right. There are lots of trees, lots
30:54
Speaker 1: of paths. There might be other people walking, there might
30:57
Speaker 1: not be, but what might observation? My feeling being there
31:01
Speaker 1: was exactly what Joe Scott maca said, and that is
31:05
Speaker 1: it was planned. There was a deliberate method walking half
31:10
Speaker 1: a mile with the two girls. It was a steakout
31:14
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because this is the kind of place
31:17
Speaker 1: where you could if you were a predator to the
31:20
Speaker 1: steak out two kids. The other thing Nancy I have
31:22
Speaker 1: to add is don't forget. And I know you know
31:24
Speaker 1: this well. We have the voice of the Purp because
31:28
Speaker 1: of those brave, brave, brave girls, one of whom recorded,
31:31
Speaker 1: and we have some drawings and we have the picture
31:35
Speaker 1: taken on the cell phone, so those things can also
31:38
Speaker 1: be used with regards to this new potential suspect. Straight
31:43
Speaker 1: out to Becky, Patty, this is Liberty's grandmother joining us today. Becky, again,
31:50
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I know you're familiar
31:53
Speaker 1: with the two sketches police released in the Delfi case
31:58
Speaker 1: involving your granddaughter Libby. In the first sketch that was
32:03
Speaker 1: released early in the investigation. When I compare this guy,
32:08
Speaker 1: James Chadwell the second age forty two to that first sketch,
32:14
Speaker 1: I find it very, very similar. When I look at
32:18
Speaker 1: the second sketch that they released, including the facial hair
32:25
Speaker 1: in the current guy, kind of like a soul patch,
32:27
Speaker 1: a little facial hair, I find that similar. Have you
32:31
Speaker 1: compared him to the composite sketches, Becky, I have seen
32:36
Speaker 1: this side by side, and yes, he does resemble both sketches.
32:42
Speaker 1: But I but I also want to say, um, so
32:46
Speaker 1: have many other people. That's true. When you are looking
32:51
Speaker 1: at a side by side with them and you're wanting
32:54
Speaker 1: to see a resemblance, you will trust me. I'm I'm
32:58
Speaker 1: hoping that we'll get that phone call and this guy
33:02
Speaker 1: is a monster and no matter what, he needs to
33:05
Speaker 1: be punished, But I just want that phone call from
33:14
Speaker 1: the police confirming that it is him. But yes, but
33:17
Speaker 1: I feel like those sketches is really meant for somebody,
33:22
Speaker 1: because I think you can make those sketches look like
33:24
Speaker 1: anybody you want them to look like. I hear what
33:29
Speaker 1: you're saying that it's easy when you're so anxious to
33:31
Speaker 1: solid case, you see what you want to see. What
33:33
Speaker 1: do we know about this guy? Let's take a listen
33:36
Speaker 1: to our cut twenty two. This is from our friends
33:40
Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. He's a monster, exactly. He is an
33:44
Speaker 1: absolute evil person. He's talking about his own brother, James Chadwell,
33:50
Speaker 1: who was accused of imprisoning a nine year old girl
33:52
Speaker 1: in his basement and is under investigation in the unsolved
33:56
Speaker 1: murders of teens Libby German and Abby Williams in two
34:00
Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen. Do I think that he's capable of
34:03
Speaker 1: that kind of crime. Absolutely? Absolutely. He's shown numerous times,
34:07
Speaker 1: not only to his friends but his family as well,
34:10
Speaker 1: that he has that kind of evil streak to him.
34:13
Speaker 1: Chadwell's stepfather also fears the forty two year old ex
34:16
Speaker 1: con maybe the mysterious figure caught on Libby's cell phone
34:20
Speaker 1: approaching them on an abandoned train trestle in Delphi, Indiana.
34:27
Speaker 1: Is he capable? Probably, you know? And should they let
34:31
Speaker 1: him back out on the street? Not ever throw the
34:33
Speaker 1: key away at this time. Okay, let me understand what
34:36
Speaker 1: I'm just hearing, Cheryl McCollum. If your brother and your
34:41
Speaker 1: stepfather are saying, yeah, he could do it, what does
34:44
Speaker 1: that mean? What does that say? Your own family saying yep,
34:48
Speaker 1: lock him up and throw away the key. He could
34:50
Speaker 1: have he could do this. Oh, they used the word evil. Yes,
34:53
Speaker 1: they do find it interesting because he tried to drown
34:57
Speaker 1: his brother when his brother was only four. So again,
35:01
Speaker 1: looking at suspectology, with his bare hands, he will take
35:06
Speaker 1: somebody and try to kill them with the breath, leaving them.
35:10
Speaker 1: This little nine year old girl he tried to strangle. Again,
35:16
Speaker 1: we don't know the manner of death in a Delphi,
35:21
Speaker 1: but again, if there was strangulation, that is a very
35:24
Speaker 1: clear pattern that cannot be ignored. Alexi's trust shocked with
35:27
Speaker 1: me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter alexis, what more
35:31
Speaker 1: can you tell me about this guy? James Chadwell, the
35:34
Speaker 1: second age forty two, so's something his brother has said.
35:38
Speaker 1: So in the last few years he was in prison,
35:41
Speaker 1: he was released from prison. He was not in prison
35:44
Speaker 1: when Abby and Libby were murdered. After that, his brother says,
35:48
Speaker 1: and you can see it in pictures. He has these
35:50
Speaker 1: tattoos on him of young girls and they look like
35:53
Speaker 1: they're crying, crying blood because it's a dark tattic, not
35:57
Speaker 1: like a clear kere, but a dark And his brother says,
36:02
Speaker 1: these tattoos make me so make me think that these
36:05
Speaker 1: are tattoos of Abby and Libby, and the one of them,
36:07
Speaker 1: he says, looks just like Libby with her cute little smile,
36:11
Speaker 1: and it shows them crying. And he says, this is
36:14
Speaker 1: and everybody jokes got more than to everybody who knows
36:16
Speaker 1: this says, that's something that criminals do. They tattoo themselves
36:19
Speaker 1: with a crime scene as part of a sick way
36:23
Speaker 1: to remember it. Not something that has really stood out
36:26
Speaker 1: with his family, but he has these new tattoos. James
36:30
Speaker 1: Brian Chadwill the second forty two year old male living
36:34
Speaker 1: in Lafayette, Indiana. I assume alexis he's living alone. Yes, okay,
36:41
Speaker 1: what do we know about this guy? The tattoo. I've
36:45
Speaker 1: looked at it. It's very very disturbing. One of that
36:52
Speaker 1: tattoos is a girl on his arm that looks very
36:57
Speaker 1: very similar to Liberty, to Libby, Liberty German Becky Patty.
37:03
Speaker 1: Has anyone informed you about that. I've seen it, Um,
37:09
Speaker 1: I've seen the tattoo um in court documents. In court documents,
37:16
Speaker 1: go ahead, it is. It's disturbing and and I can
37:21
Speaker 1: see why people say what they're saying. Guys, we have
37:24
Speaker 1: studied the affidavit very very carefully, and I find it
37:29
Speaker 1: interesting that the little girl awakens and she's been unclothed
37:35
Speaker 1: while she's passed out. The faces uh, tattoos of crying
37:43
Speaker 1: girls on his arms very disturbing. He's covered in tattoos. Um.
37:50
Speaker 1: What more do you know Alexa's turess, Chuck, Well, we
37:52
Speaker 1: also know about his criminal pass but you know his
37:56
Speaker 1: own stepfather filed acclaim against him to him from his house.
38:01
Speaker 1: This is not somebody who just got a dui. He
38:06
Speaker 1: is somebody that has an extensive rap sheet. But the
38:09
Speaker 1: other thing, you know, Joscot Morgan was talking about the
38:11
Speaker 1: state Police superintendent. The one thing he has said about
38:15
Speaker 1: this crime that has always stuck with me and really
38:17
Speaker 1: just taunted me. He said he has never seen a
38:21
Speaker 1: crime scene. Libby and Abby's crincy as disturbing. He says,
38:24
Speaker 1: I will never be able to unsee that. Can I
38:28
Speaker 1: tell you about a postalexis from this guy sleeping under
38:32
Speaker 1: a bridge for a while until work starts. Cool, dry,
38:36
Speaker 1: no neighbors, and the bridge is only six minutes from work.
38:40
Speaker 1: He's sleeping under a bridge and Abby and Liberty were
38:46
Speaker 1: just seeing last on a bridge. He is a welder.
38:51
Speaker 1: He filled his Facebook page with angry rants about life,
38:55
Speaker 1: saying that he himself wrecked everything and cries a lot.
39:01
Speaker 1: We're learning a lot of this from him things he's posted,
39:06
Speaker 1: and for instance, one of his posts the police are
39:09
Speaker 1: looking for a suspect described as sexy, funny and great
39:12
Speaker 1: in bed. You're safe, but where shall I hide? Who
39:17
Speaker 1: would post that? He has a lengthy assault of criminal
39:21
Speaker 1: history in both Indiana and South Dakota. He's no stranger
39:26
Speaker 1: to the Internet. It's got a lot of postings there
39:30
Speaker 1: and also on TikTok he talked about people praying on
39:37
Speaker 1: little people to Becky Patty, what is going through your
39:43
Speaker 1: mind when the days have passed since this guy, Chadwell
39:48
Speaker 1: was arrested. Well, I will say that of all the
39:53
Speaker 1: persons of interests, that have probably the most logical and
39:58
Speaker 1: he probably chucks more boxes than anybody else. But we
40:04
Speaker 1: don't allow ourselves to get our hopes up too much,
40:08
Speaker 1: because if you pin all your hopes on that, there's
40:12
Speaker 1: a chance of being disappointed. So we step back and
40:17
Speaker 1: we let law enforcement do their thing, and we sit
40:21
Speaker 1: here and hope and wait that we're going to get
40:23
Speaker 1: a phone call saying we got him. And until that
40:27
Speaker 1: time that we get that phone call, be at him
40:30
Speaker 1: or somebody else, we will continue looking. As it stands
40:35
Speaker 1: right now, James at Chadwell the second has not been
40:39
Speaker 1: charged in connection to the martyrs of Abby and Libby.
40:43
Speaker 1: We wait as just as him falls, Nancy Grace comes story,
40:47
Speaker 1: signing off good my friends,