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Songwriting, Performance & Creative Collaboration (with Joe Banua) · The Daily Writer

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome to episode 107 of the Born to Create Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ken Sanders, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your creative work.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the reasons I do a podcast is to deliver value to my listeners, which I love doing.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy the opportunity to create content and help improve people's lives, businesses, and their creativity.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I also have to be really honest, there's also a selfish element to doing a podcast, and I think every honest podcaster would probably say the same thing, at least if they're doing an interview show.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that having a podcast and doing interviews gives me an excuse to reach out to people who are doing cool work and to ask them to be on the show.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly the case with today's episode.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: My guest is Joe Banois, and he's a songwriter, producer, guitarist, and the creative genius behind Brother Joe.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've known Joe for quite a while now, and I've always admired his talent as a musician and also as a performer.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Joe's background is actually in worship ministry, which is my background as well.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what I admire so much about Joe is that he made a decision to expand his impact and influence by moving to Nashville and making a go at a professional music career.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you realize this, but that takes a huge amount of courage.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't want to get on a soapbox necessarily, but I do want to say this.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a church ministry background also.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And many times when somebody pivots away from a church-based career to what is referred to sometimes as a quote-unquote secular career, it's framed as leaving the ministry.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there are a lot of ways to minister to people and to serve them.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And as Joe and I have talked about before, not on this particular episode, but as we've talked about before, he hasn't quote unquote left ministry.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, he's greatly expanded his ministry and the opportunity to influence many thousands of people through his relationships, uh, performing, songwriting, and involvement in the music industry.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's really the way that I see it.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times kind of in the tightly knit uh church world, so to speak.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you're a church leader or a pastor or an elder or you work at a church, please don't take offense to this, but but I think you all would agree if you're in that community, you would ag agree with this that sometimes we view it as kind of a negative thing when somebody switches careers and they go away from the church into a quote unquote secular career.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't believe there is any such thing as a sacred or secular career.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's all God's work.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're all doing creative work because we're created by God and if we're using our gifts to serve people and to be a testament to God through our creative ability and through doing excellent work, that is a ministry that is serving people that is honorable to God.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so thankful for Joe that he has uh decided to expand his influence and his ministry, if you will, by using his talents on a much bigger stage.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's very, very cool.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been really excited to have him on the show today.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, Joe shares about his songwriting process, he talks about what a regular day looks like for him, he talks about what it's like to musically collaborate with somebody, and he also talks about the importance of serving people, which uh honestly you don't hear that many times from performing type of artists.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I love this emphasis on serving people through our music and through our creative uh through our creativity.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, after the interview, make sure and check out the show notes at KentSanders.net slash one zero seven and you'll find the links and all that good stuff there.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get to the conversation with Joe Banois.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Joe, I am thrilled to be here with you.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad this worked out for you to be a guest in my intro to the arts college class.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for making the time to be here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to be here, thank you.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to start out with your musical journey.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know it has been a long journey.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you're that old.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm saying.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling pretty old lately.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you have a vast amount of musical experience and have done music in a variety of settings.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So can you give us kind of a Cliff Notes version, if you will, of your musical journey up through today?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Man, Cliff Notes version is such a long story.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't have to be Cliff Notes necessarily.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you picked up a guitar.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just about drums.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Drums when I was three years old.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I grew up in a a family that was very musical.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, my dad was a touring musician.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so oftentimes I didn't see him a bunch because he was out on the road some.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um but you know, music was always right there.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: There was always instruments around our house, and um I grew up in that environment very much.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um But you know, my first passion was actually flying.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be Really?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I wanted to be uh, you know, an aviator.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to fly fighter jets.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can't fit into fighter jets.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: They can't see this in the podcast, but it's like the size of a you know an indie car or something like that, trying to get into those things.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, uh I had a dear friend um who was you know my best friend growing up eventually, and we started playing music together in sixth grade, and it really became a passion for me uh to play and to sing.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I started playing instruments very young, drums around three years old, uh piano around seven years old, um I believe violin around ten and guitar around twelve.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a lot of instruments.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a few instruments.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's enough to get the job done, you know, and and be proficient.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I call myself a jack of trades and master of none, you know.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not gonna blow your mind with anything but you know, just to be able to be proficient and I would disagree with that.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard your music and I I think you're not giving yourself enough credit.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I mean, uh music just became a focus for me, and um I remember uh one day in my senior year of high school, um I was attending my my home church, Gateway Christian Church on the west side of St.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, um and Carl Shad was my youth pastor.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love Carl.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um great dude.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and his wife Carrie is one of the sweetest people I've ever known.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember at the end of one of the services, uh she she came to the back of the room and she just it was like one of those things where someone grabs your face, you know, and they say something to you and it just kind of like penetrates your soul, you know.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um she said, You're gonna be a worship leader.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all she said, and she walked away.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, where did that come from?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know what it meant at the time.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was still a newbie in church and you know, kind of fresh, and um I didn't know what it meant.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um then I attended some Christ in youth conferences, um, and I remember uh at a theater in Carbondale, Illinois, um standing in this room with you know, 1500 or so high schoolers just singing their hearts out to God, and it was that moment, you know, God just said this is this is what she meant.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, let's do it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was sort of a defining moment for you.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So what came after after that?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um you had this impulse to be a worship leader, you had people in your life confirming that was the direction that you should go.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: What were your next steps in your musical career?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: My next step was um I I came right here to St.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Louis Christian College here in Florescent, Missouri, and um actually we're sitting in the room that I took, you know, exams in, and um spent I spent two semesters here.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I came to a kind of a crossroads, you know.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I have some challenges with learning in certain settings, and um, you know, I just felt like maybe I needed to figure out another path.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, at the at the same time God was still working in the details and trying to figure out how to keep me on the path towards what he called me to.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was to affect lives, you know.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: For the kingdom, period.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: There is no more description to it than that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um regardless of what I was doing, I knew that that's what I needed to do, and music was my gift, okay?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh he was still working out the details, and at that time, I don't know if anyone in this room happens to remember the band.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost a little embarrassing these days to say it out loud, but um the the band that was on stage, you know, when I had that moment of clarity with the Lord that this is what I was to do, um, was a band called 150.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if any of you in this room grew up in churches that played superhero or anything like that in your uh Sunday school.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got some nods.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Got some nods, you know, superhero.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, do the dance then I remember 150 well.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so great guys.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're great guys, and it was a huge blessing to uh move from from this classroom actually to uh getting hands-on with the job of of touring and um learning how those those those bigger events run and being with a band that was touring all over the churches all over the country doing it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so you were you toured with 150, is that correct?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I played guitar for them.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Andy Schroeder, the the the leader of 150, uh they started in 1993, and I was coming in in 2002, so he had been at it for a long time already.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, they had done wonderful things, and I was just blessed to walk into a situation, which is rare, to just, you know, come out of a dorm room into a band that has a bus and tours, you know, a couple hundred shows a year.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just it's it was racy.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got to meet people all over the country and and make new friends, and it got into my blood, and I never wanted to stop doing that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Never wanted to stop.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get involved with 150?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was the was there a moment or a conversation that led to that connection?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um during the Christ and uh Christ and Youth conferences, they had opportunities for the younger folks to um, you know, come up and sing during the week.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was an audition type of situation.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at the time this was the very beginning of when Mercy Me was starting to gain major traction with I Could Only Imagine.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they, you know, Mercy Me, the a few of the guys from the band were actually friends of mine, because this was before they were big big, you know.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember going, there was a family Christian uh bookstore just down the way.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it still there down the street?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, they went out of business uh gosh, seven or eight years ago, I think.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember walking down there with my buddy Steve Thurman, and um we walked in and we saw their record on the shelf, and we just went, Whoa, this is getting real, you know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, that's when that song started to take off, and I um was able to share that with that particular group at the CIY conference, and um just a couple of months after that, so that would have been the summer before my freshman year here at SLCC, and in n October or November of my first semester, I'm I met And Andy at um a Worship One conference up in Illinois.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Eastview?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: East something like that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Eastview Christian Church.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Bloomington?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, got a friend who works there, so great church.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that they did the Worship One conference there, and I ran into him on the escalators out in the lobby, and um he said, Hey, I want to talk to you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that conversation grew into will you travel with us next summer, you know, as an intern and play guitar for us and sing.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, of course, I was like, let me think about that for yes, let's do it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: For a millisecond.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I did.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I left this and packed a a Wind Star minivan and drove to Indianapolis, and I toured with them for two years um as a guitar player, and um, you know, ultimately he ended up moving to Texas, and I stayed in Indianapolis.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and from there um I went to Best Buy.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because what do you do when you can't play guitar?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: You go sell electronics for a very short time, just a couple of months, and then I was able to secure a position at Connection Point Christian Church, then called Brownsburg Christian Church in Brownsburg, Indiana.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Let me go back to the touring for a second because a lot of people I think have a very uh idealized view of what it's like to actually be a touring musician.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us kind of a reality check of what is your day-to-day life, highs and lows, uh good and bad, for a musician who's constantly on the road and touring?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly on the road um is is kind of a it's a fluid thing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: To be a tour musician is um you have to be tenacious.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you have to be able to find opportunities.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just put all your eggs in one basket because when you know some artists tour for a few months and then they're off the road for several months, and you still have to be able to find work during that time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um you have to be very particular and tenacious about building relationships with people and treating people with respect so that they'll like you enough to take you out on the road, and um and then you'll be able to find work throughout the year through the different relationships that you've built.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but touring's amazing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not for everybody.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: There are many highly experienced tour people that eventually say, I just want to stay home.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm gonna come off the road.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe I'll, you know, book for bands, or maybe I'll, you know, they find another way, or maybe they go into photography.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even some you know, some of the members of the bigger bands in Christian music have found other avenues to to generate income for their families that are not music related, you know, because that makes sense.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of a related field.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're still using their creative gifts and serving the creative community, but they're not necessarily doing touring.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So after the after the touring part of your career, uh you went into worship leading.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: How long did you do that?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I was a worship leader for 15 years.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was mostly in churches that were about 1,500 to 4,000.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been the attendance.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um there were a couple of times I was at churches that were um in the 150 to 200 in attendance, uh, some smaller churches as an interim, um, some around here in the St.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Louis area, um and a couple in the Indianapolis area, but mostly it was the larger churches that were seeking, you know, someone like me.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, being that I came from a background that was, you know, in larger circumstances, you know.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: What was keep on with the question, sorry.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I forget what my question was.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I enjoy that happens sometimes.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, that's so good because I I do want to backtrack for a second and ask you about the transition from being a Tory musician to being a worship leader in one place.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: That in my now I've I've used to be a worship leader, but I've not been a Tory musician.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: What is that transition like emotionally, mentally, relationally, to go from you're going all over the place, you're living living a life where you're very much on stage and performing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, being with 150, that's a worship worship group, so there's a worship element obviously to it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: What what was that like for you to transition from the touring life to more of a set life in a local church?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is much more difficult.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the job that you have to do in a church um as opposed to being on the road, when you're touring, you are seeing, you know, a thousand, fifteen hundred, two thousand fresh faces for one night, and then you get in your bus and you leave town.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to hear what they thought about it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes after the show you hear really incredible things about how they felt about the show, but you don't have to hear if anyone felt negatively about it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you go into a situation where you are localized and and staying put, um you are trying to come up with fresh oh, that's another part.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing the same show over and over again everywhere you go.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're doing the same songs for the most part each each time you've come to a new city because they're seeing it for the first time.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And does that get boring after a while, or is that invigorating in a sense?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Some people get bored with it, you know.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um some people will finish this amazing song and in their mind go blah blah blah blah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing I played last night.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I personally love it because I can play on cruise control, you know.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to think too much about what my hands and my mind and my mouth are doing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's cruise control because I've done it a hundred times or two hundred times, and and I just get to experience the emotional thing that happens between the people in the room and those who are on stage.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when you go into a localized position, um you have to bring something fresh weekly, something new, something engaging.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um guess what?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: On Monday, there's gonna people that be people that didn't like what happened on Sunday.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's true.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the emails will come in and then the leadership will come into you and say, Well, we got this going on, and you know, let's kind of work through this and figure out you know how we can do better or whether we should do anything about it and just let them complain.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the hardest things about a local church worship ministry is that it doesn't really matter what kind of music you do, you're guaranteed that somebody, there's a segment of people who are not gonna like it because music is so personal and so emotional.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's always hard for creative people to swallow, at least it it is for me, because you put your heart and soul into something, knowing that there's gonna be some people who just don't like it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Was that a struggle for you in that setting?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always knew that there were gonna pee be people that didn't, you know, appreciate maybe a certain song or a certain thing that you said in a certain way, you know.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to kind of let that roll off.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, it was maybe earlier in my life I was a little bit more of a plea a people pleaser, but as I grew up and started to, you know, mature for myself, I stopped letting little things like that get to me and go, guess what?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna please everybody.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just do something that you believe pleases the Lord, and that should be your main goal.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if there are gonna be people that complain about that that thing, there's there's not really much you can do to please everybody.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you can try.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can do everything you can to meet as many people's needs as you can and be all things to all people, you know, and sometimes I definitely had to put on different masks in order to meet the needs of the people that I was called to lead.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: There were certainly times in my life that I did not feel like walking onto stage, you know, when stuff is going on in life and r things are really hard, and then you have to, you know, these these thousand people are in the room and they're there to be encouraged and to walk away smiling and and go into their week encouraged, you know.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um you have to step up to the plate sometimes and compartmentalize, is the best word for it, and um, you know, allow the things that are tough to be over here for a minute while you show people that no matter how hard things are, you are still incredibly blessed, and he still deserves to be worshipped no matter what.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that was hard, but it was it was uh a really good season of growth in that way.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So let's transition to more of the work that you've been doing more recently with with your group called Brother Joe, which I just love the title.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a cool name for a band.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I could be crossing paths with someone that I don't know at a gas station and say, Oh, how you doing, brother?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's just so natural for people to say that in the first place.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um being that I came from, you know, a kind of a pastoral background, doing that for 15 years as a worship leader, um, it just made sense because just because I moved out of, you know, the position of worship leader and and um out of localized church church ministry, I still very much see what I do as a ministry.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to people, to community, you know, and just Loving on everyone right where they're at, no matter what I'm doing.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I consider myself to be a brother to everybody, and I want to treat people like I'm their brother.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when we were going through a rebranding process, because the the the duo project that we had leading up to this was called A Thousand Miles.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, after that folded, we said, okay, what's next?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's something that's very important that people are looking for in the industry is when you get kicked and you're down on the ground, will you get up again and dust yourself off and keep moving?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people don't, I assume.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some people run, they go back home.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people move to Nashville expecting to find success, and when they find themselves in the dust, they go, well, this is it's not working for me, I'm gonna go home.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth is that industry people are looking for people who are going to stick it out, dust themselves off, and figure out what's next.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so when we were going through that process, um, you know, I felt like my name, which is Joey Banois, is not a very marketable name.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to spell, it's hard to say.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been called Banua, Banao, Banana.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten all of those.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So like every permutation of it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I said that's not a brandable name.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people aren't they're gonna struggle with that, I think.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I just thought about um, you know, what do people naturally say when they walk up to me?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um I tried to put myself in my peers' shoes and how they would see me, and I I just felt like Brother Joe would be uh, you know, would be pretty accurate because that's how I want to be.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not always that way.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I get upset and not easy to be around, but Pobity's nerfed.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So would you say as a person who lives in Nashville, you're very much interacting with the professional musician community.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: People who are enormously talented.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is the difference between somebody who succeeds in this kind of career and somebody who doesn't?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not so much a matter of talent or skill or ability.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's really more about tenacity and perseverance and just that attitude of I'm going to make this work, even if it takes a long time, it even if it doesn't work out the way that I want exactly, I'm just gonna stick with it and make it happen.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that that's a small part of it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I what I hear more often from those who have been in Nashville a long time is uh they use this word a good hang.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so they're looking for people who aren't going to be stereotypical musicians, uh stereotypical artists who are pre Madonnas or think that everything should revolve around them.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for people who can work with a team, who can grow a team, um, people who naturally, without having to tell people to follow them, have followers.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're looking for natural leaders, um, people who know how to um maintain and cast vision to their tribe and um keep everyone engaged.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are the qualities that Nashville is looking for and any music city really.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, some places you can you can be a difficult person and get by with it more along the coast.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but in Nashville that doesn't fly.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um you you need to be someone who is uh a good time to be around and easy to work with, um, and and then people will start to let you in and realize that you're not there to take out of their pocket and you're not there to ride their coattails, you're there to serve them.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which is kind of why any of us would be in this room.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or in any job, hopefully.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we want to serve people.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's an interesting perspective because you normally don't hear that about what it what does it take to be a professional musician or to be successful as an artist in some way.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: You hear about talent and luck and all those things, but you don't often hear about, hey, this person is fun to hang out with, or they're good relationally.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or they're a nice person.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: They usually keep me around because I'm good looking.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's you know, this combination of important qualities, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us about your music.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: What what kind of music, and of course I know what kind of music you do, but for those who are new to your music, including some of our students here today, what kind of music do you do and who are your influences and and what could they expect to hear when they hear a Brother Joe record?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: My background is incredibly eclectic, um, being that I grew up with a father who played top 40 music um all through the 80s and 90s, and even before I was born in the 70s, um, that was that was his vibe.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So he was always very well tapped into what was currently popular.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and so that spanned over a lot of different genres, and I think another important thing to know about the music industry right now is that genre lines are kind of blurring, you know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that personally.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I do too.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some people who are purist in genres don't like that, and there are a lot of them.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I understand that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as far as popular music goes, those lines are blurring, and it didn't start recently.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you think about people like um Cheryl Crow, who's from right here in St.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, um, you know, she she did, you know, she started out as as a pop artist who came out on MTV, and you know, really she's kind of bluesy and you know, down from I guess I think she's living about a hundred miles from Memphis or something like that, and and she has uh country vibe sometimes.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I mean it started earlier on that those lines were kind of blurring between pop and all of the outer genres around pop pop music.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now you have things like Old Town Road, where it's literally hip hop with some country twing.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you first heard that's a big argument right now.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you like it?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you like do you like that song in the side?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: When I first heard it, I was late to the show, which I normally am.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when I first heard the song, um I immediately thought to myself this is definitely hip hop, but I believe that the heart of the song when listening to the lyrics and when listening to the delivery of the song, I heard country.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I I you know I cannot argue with with what genre it is, it's current country.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Country with with a rap or hip hop element, which is we've seen more of that, which I find really fascinating.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, there's a lot of purists that'll sit around and cross their arms and you know uh but you know, I I'm just happy to see country music anywhere.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, getting back to your your original question, I think that um I'm a very eclectic person and I have a lot of different backgrounds, you know, growing up, being in the top 40 scene with my dad, and then I went through this um this RB boys to men, you know, era in my life.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Back to men, that's singing, you know, shy and you know, all for one and things like that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was that nerd.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Backstreet boys, it's like Backstreet Boys.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't that I was kind of out of it by then.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was out of the I was then into alternative rock.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, my band knew every Metallica song, and um, you know, we played a lot of the Nirvana and things like that in the 90s and um grunge rock.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there I started going to church and worship music became my whole life.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and um so when I write a song now, well, let me go back a little bit.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: When I started writing some songs for Connection Point Church when I was out in Indianapolis, um it it became very natural for me to write stories.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is the heart of country is storytelling and painting a picture.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a great observation.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've never thought about it that way.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so my writing started to move towards those those stories and and painting those vivid images um and you know, kind of away from the style that would be a worship or a CCM song.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um But, you know, as I write country music, there is still a lot of the nuances of my CCM days there.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our flagship song, which is called Sirens, is it's about you know, the life of the first responder and the family member of the first responder and someone who's lost, you know, or anyone, anybody, not just first responders, but anyone who's lost someone in their life.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and that that particular moment in the song is really the person who has gone on who is saying back to the person who's on earth, missing them, hey, I'm in a better place.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for you to see this place.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wrapped in heaven's peace.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't worry for me.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is great up here, you know.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so those nuances are still in my music.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also when you are writing country music, you have to round an album out, and it can't be an album full of ballads.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I sing about drinking beer and you know, doing things like that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So gotta have a variety in there.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta have a variety in there.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you about some things related to your creative life.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So this this podcast that we're doing now is about the creative life and developing habits and mindset that can help us to be more creative no matter what kind of work we're doing.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is an arts class, we talk a lot about creativity in here.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you hear the word creative, what what person what what person do you think of who is a super creative genius?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think this would be a really good opportunity.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I for any of my friends who might listen to this later on, you're all creative geniuses.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but um I really have to point out um a young lady named Judy Stakey.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and Judy Stakey is spelled S-T-A-K-K-E-E.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um she used to work um in publishing um, and I'm not exactly sure about her titles at that point in her life, but we're talking about the days of Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey, and she was working with Clive Davis, you know, the man with the golden ears.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is the music industry's most sought-after producer.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: He knew how to find superstars.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um that was her circle.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's who she rolled with.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um so eventually, um, you know, the music can the music industry can take its toll sometimes.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um it'll leave you in a place where you feel like, okay, I've done everything I could do here in this industry the way that it is.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna find a way to take those skills and do something great with them on my own.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she absolutely did that.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um Judy Stakey does um she does songwriter retreats and creativity retreats all over the globe.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um many in the major music cities such as LA, um, Nashville.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's done some over in Europe, uh, you know, um she may have New York maybe.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but she does these retreats and they're not cheap to go on.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: There is an expense associated, but I will say and and echo what she says in most of her um uh of her marketing is that is so important for um for all of us who are creative to invest in nurturing and furthering that outside.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and you're doing it right now by being here at St.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Louis Christian College.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're investing that by being here with uh is it Dr.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sanders?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, just can't Professor Sanders, whatever.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Professor Sanders.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't want to didn't want to get that wrong.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some uh Professor Kent it's doctor.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Some people titles are important to some academic people, they're not to me.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um Judy Stakey is incredible and sh what she does is it's not simply a retreat about just writing songs.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a retreat that allows you to start thinking about your entire being as a creative vessel.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it starts with getting up in the morning and doing yoga every day and then eating healthy whole green meals, you know, um and just, you know, because your body has a difficult time being creative and tapping into the depths of where you get the really good stuff unless you're treating yourself properly.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Which I can attest to that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I get it, you know, and it's it's a hard thing to live by, but what she teaches is But McDonald's tastes so good.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just so good.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Until ten minutes afterwards, and then I think myself.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: In White Castle.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're here in St.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Louis, so emo's pizza or all that good stuff.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're now you're speaking speaking my love language now.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, a couple more quick questions here before we start to wrap this up and we do uh a QA.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's one of your musical guilty pleasures?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Something that you don't normally admit to liking, but you honestly do like the sound of music.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing wrong with that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's no shame in that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Fan with the opera, sound of music.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do enjoy a musical theater.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's really weird, but you know, it's giving me chills and giving me tears, and um I believe that so much of our music now is derived from that, um, and being able to take the the epic parts of um classical and uh you know musical theater um and apply those to current music, it it it does exactly what it's supposed to do.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we listen to the scores on movie soundtracks, you know, without the soundtrack, the movie doesn't make you feel the way that it's supposed to.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's very true for the classical music and you know the musical theaters that that music is written that way.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you feel something something something bigger than four chords, you know.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, although the simplicity of four chords and the truth can also be incredibly powerful when it's stripped down and just raw and true.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: So are you gonna go see cats when it comes out the movie?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen cats.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's one that I I might go see Lion King though.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I heard it was good.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen the cartoon.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen the newer one.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cats uh to me, cats is really bizarre.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the only word I can think of to describe it.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen not in Broadway, I've seen uh like a movie of the it's a film to stage production, basically.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how else to describe it except it's just very strange.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious what the movie's gonna be like.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: It looks fascinating, but I don't know.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about people with cat costumes on that's just is kind of disturbing.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: If s if I had a roommate in my house walking around in a cat costume, I'd I'd probably take the roommate out.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, last question.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: How can people find out more about you and your music and your creative work?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, stay in touch with me on um Instagram for sure and Facebook at Brother Joe Official.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, that's at Brother Joe Official on Instagram and Facebook and Brotherjoeofficial.com.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's really not much going on there at the moment, but we're under a site redesign at the moment.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but definitely get in touch with me on Instagram.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: I reply to all my things.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the things that shocked a lot of people surrounding our sirens song, and when we released that, they're like, oh, this is actually you responding.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, it's actually me because I can't afford someone else to respond for me.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a publicist.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's the best way to get a hold and stay in touch and see what's going on.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we are doing this live here in my class.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Any of you guys have any questions for Joe?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, go ahead.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna repeat your question, by the way, so we can record it.
• 39:39
  unknown: Okay, so what is one piece of advice that you would give to somebody who's traveling on the road.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's one piece of advice you would give somebody who's traveling on the road on a tour.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Pack lots of underwear.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, honestly, um when you're touring consistently, um it is a very exciting lifestyle.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're seeing new faces everywhere in different cities.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um you go to a place, people are expecting you to be there and they're looking up to you.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're kind of on a pedestal.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so two things surrounding that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing is that you have to stay humble.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um never at any point are we any better than anybody else.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're just regular people.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh it's I'm shocked sometimes at the the place that some people think I'm at in life.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like, no, I'm you know, I take out the trash and you know, clean dirty things and do all that kind of stuff.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um you gotta remain humble, and then second off, um, when you come off the road, um, it's almost like this really chaotic experience, and then you pull in, you leave the bus, you go home, you do l do your laundry, and you mill your lawn, and you you go, what now?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's and a lot of people can go into depression that way.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can I could totally see that.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they don't have people doing, you know, uh basically, you know, worshiping the ground they walk on on the you know, um and and it's a whole different vibe when you get home.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: So some people get stir crazy, but it's important to have things to do when you get home uh from touring and keep yourself busy, um whether that's through hobbies, hiking.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Try to stay away from Netflix because I know I know because I I'm I do it.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: I go into my my my dungeon, it's my recording studio, I keep it dark in there, and you know, sometimes that helps me concentrate.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if Netflix goes on, then it's really easy to find that you've been sitting there for 10 hours and you haven't gotten anything done, and you go, Man, I'm so depressed, I'm not out there rocking stages, you know.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So have things to do for sure.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Those those would those would be my two first pieces of advice.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if I would offer a third one, again, I'll reiterate it.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Treat people with respect everywhere.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um that it is a very small community out there, the music industry.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Meeting someone in Nashville means that you're meeting people in Los Angeles and New York at the same time in Atlanta and Austin.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um it is a very small community, world travels fast, and you will get blacklisted if you treat people poorly.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: As you should.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Other questions?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Ken and I.
• 42:43
  unknown: Uh what was the biggest difference between being at a church and an hour?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is I feel odd repeating this question because you're hearing it twice.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: The question is for our listeners is what's the biggest difference between being at a larger church versus a smaller church?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest difference.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um the I'm not even gonna say that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say the volume, but man, I've heard some small churches sing way louder than big churches before.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um You know, it's a smaller community, um, so anytime that that happens, um people are just closer in proximity.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where when when I was on church at a staff of 4,000, there were several people in the church that I never met in my entire six and a half years there.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually a dear friend of mine from one of the churches in Indi in Indiana, I remember when we were talking on the phone um af long after I had served there, um, she said, One day I walk up to you and you kind of blew me off.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how Why would I ever do that?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember that instance because there's so many people.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember meeting her the first time.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that crazy how that works?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: It blew my mind.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens is, you know, at least it in that particular situation, you know, we would pop out from backstage to try and mingle with people, but usually we had to get back to start another service because at church at churches that size, you have five services sometimes and they're back to back.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, um so you you know there's a lot of back and forth, and you don't mean to blow people off, but sometimes you gotta scoot.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta get to the next thing and be ready and have your microphone in hand ready to go.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the schedule.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it it uh when she said that I was mortified because I know that that means she's probably not the only person that ever felt that way.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um luckily she was able to, you know, in her own mind understand that I probably had to be somewhere or something.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: But um because of course we're still friends to this point.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: But um at a smaller church, you know everybody.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: You you pretty no much know everybody and they all know you.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um at bigger churches, it was harder to go grocery shopping because in that community people would see you and you'd get stopped for the stuff.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even go to the grocery store.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I always loved it when they would approach me at restaurants.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because I love connecting with people.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I was touring, you know, we always go to the merchandise table after, you know, whatever we were doing on stage, and I that was my favorite part is meeting people and hearing their stories about how the mus music affected them.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um some of the other guys in the band were more introverted and they didn't like it as much as I did, but I loved being around the people, like right face to face, shaking hands, hugging, you know, that's my that's my vibe.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, when when people would run into me at restaurants or whatever in that community, I totally loved it.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if I was grocery shopping, leave me alone.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm just trying to get into this store and get out and go home and unpack stuff.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but no, I mean I it's always good to see people I say that jokingly, but um sometimes it was like it would happen three or four times in a single trip, and that would just kind of change.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I need to get done with this.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get let's get home.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Other questions?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Noah.
• 46:31
  unknown: Uh what is some advice for somebody who's literally just starting to learn music?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the qu the question is, what advice would you give somebody who is starting to learn music, but they may not be particularly gifted at it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that um most instruments um can it can be taught.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, music is something that can be taught as long as someone is determined enough to learn it, um, which takes drive and motivation um to stick with it because there are a lot of things that are difficult musically to do that if you don't continue to try, you give up and then you start falling short, you start feeling bad about it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you ask that question, are you talking about learning an instrument or a or a um an ability?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you talking about um just an appreciation for music or you know, what specifically are you new at or your friend?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: What are they new at?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm you know, just just sticking with it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um are you passionate about it?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: You do have a passion for music, but you're just getting started.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I w I would say the perseverance part of it is really important.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're getting into purchasing instruments, um here's some major mistakes that get made there.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes um the improper instrument can be purchased.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so let's just take guitar for a for example.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um you have the ability to buy cheap guitars because they call them beginner guitars, and some beginner guitars they're difficult to play because they're not high quality.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll it'll be harder to press down the strings, or when you do press down the strings, it won't sound that great.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the important to actually sit down and play multiple guitars in whatever price range because um just because you know, like for instance, Yamaha has um a$200 or$250 guitar that by most quote, you know, by most standards of musicians would be a cheap guitar, incredibly cheap, but this particular one plays very well.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when you press the strings, it's not difficult to press down, so it's not as painful to continue to learn.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when you press the strings down, it stays in tune.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that makes it easier for your ear to go, oh, this isn't so hard.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because and and then the the instrument becomes inspiring, which makes you want to be more passionate about getting better.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you buy bad golf clubs and go golfing and you have a crummy game, it's not going to inspire you to want to continue to learn to play golf.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you just have to be choosy about your instruments and making sure that they're inspiring when you play them.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: One more question?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone have one?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Being ethical and staying popular.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that first off, I want to say this.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not a highly educated person, so when it comes to ethics, um I think that's a funny word that a lot of people can misunderstand how it's being used, and I don't want to make that mistake right now, so I want to answer you in a way that's more comfortable for me.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um can I can I change this to about integrity?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I feel like um more often when people are looking for a producer, um they want to be able to trust that person, you know.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um so by doing things um and giving of yourself and serving other people, then people are gonna start to see what your integrity is all about on the front end.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I personally work with a producer named David Zafiro who um for you guys you would know uh as far as his discography goes, um, you know, the original passion albums with Chris Tomlin, um Charlie Hall, David Crowder, Louis Giglio, um, and uh Steve Fee.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you guys familiar familiar with Steve Fee?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um these were the artists that he was working with, a new song, um, which uh Steve Reichel, who was who hired me over at Harvester, was in New Song, and that's how I got connected with David Zafiro.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um David Zafiro has worked with some of the top names in country music and in Christian music.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that he was able to do that is because he treated people with dignity and respect.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: He he can be hard too.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: In the studio, our poor drummer, he was very particular about how he wanted things done.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: But people respect him because of who he is, um, and so they're more grateful for that direction than anything, um, even though he can be really tough and you know, like we're doing business now, you know.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but to answer your question, you know, uh when I got involved with David, um he could have easily taken my phone call and answered my question and gone on about his day.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't paying him, but when I called him with a question, a simple question about my my recording studio that I was building, my wife and I were building together, um he said, you know what, let's hop on FaceTime.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked on FaceTime for two and a half hours.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't cost me anything, he didn't charge me, he didn't care about money.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to reach down and help a new producer come up.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even currently, on my current record, we're working on three singles right now for Brother Joe.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we can't really afford to pay him what we did on the last record right now because the capital's not there.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: But he said, you know what, I'll tell you what, I will he said, I'll consult with you on this record as um, you know, um a consulting mix engineer, a consulting producer, um, and you'll do all the work, but I'll stand here and mentor you all the way through it, you know?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's a lot of hours, that's a lot of time that he would not necessarily be getting paid for what he normally does.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: But when you see potential in someone else, you reach down and you help them come up, you know, and there's gonna be people who reach down to you and help you come up.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to them, you know.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: This guy, he's got wisdom, he's got experience that you don't have.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to what he has to say and take every nugget that you can, and those people are just gonna help you out, and then you share that same integrity along the way, and you keep your promises, you know, and you treat people with dignity and respect.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: None of us are perfect, but I mean that's how you go places in the industry, is when people see you doing because you love, not because you get.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Make sense?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Great advice.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been a lot of fun.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'd love for you guys to give Joe a hand.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, guys.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: For taking some time with us.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and your wife, Rachel, is here.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she wasn't on the mic, but is a presence nonetheless, so we appreciate that.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing Joe with us for for a little while.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, that's it.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's really fun.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate the hope you enjoyed my conversation with Joe.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love the opportunity to not just have him on this podcast, but to be able to do this interview live in one of my college classes.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate him not just as a musician, but also as a friend and an amazing creative mind.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure and check out Joe's website at brotherjofficial.com.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also find his music on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, and elsewhere.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: And again, make sure and check out the links in the show notes at KentSanders.net slash 107.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when you go there to that page on my site where this episode is, you can also leave a comment on this episode.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear what you think.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you want to leave a comment on Apple Podcasts, you can go there to review the show and to leave a rating if you'd like to, so I always appreciate those.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, that wraps up this episode of the Born to Create podcast.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember that you are born to create and designed to make a difference.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will see you next time.