Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Role Call: Melton An Asset For Tigs Pitching

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Role Call: Melton An Asset For Tigs Pitching · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And well come into another episode of Tiger's Territory part
0:10
Speaker 1: the Fault Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieren
0:13
Speaker 1: sectly with me as always as a man who cannot
0:16
Speaker 1: wait to find out about the life of a show girls.
0:22
Speaker 2: How you doing, Hey, You're doing all right, Karen? How
0:25
Speaker 2: are we feeling after this series? The Tigers take two
0:27
Speaker 2: of three from a very bad team. They win the
0:30
Speaker 2: rubber match one to oher. But the bullpen looked good,
0:34
Speaker 2: the pitching was good, there were some things to like.
0:37
Speaker 2: The game before that was pretty brutal and miserable to watch.
0:42
Speaker 2: You take two of three, right, So maybe we should
0:44
Speaker 2: be happier than the vibe on the internet would lead
0:48
Speaker 2: you to believe.
0:51
Speaker 1: So look, I think there's a lot of validated opinions
0:56
Speaker 1: that are on the internet now. I do think sometimes
1:00
Speaker 1: the perspective is a little bit off, but that's okay.
1:04
Speaker 1: That's why that's why we love this game. I think
1:07
Speaker 1: I've come down on this. I'm glad you asked me
1:09
Speaker 1: this question. To start out, the phrase we've earned the
1:13
Speaker 1: right or we haven't earned the right, a classic ajaism.
1:17
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. The Tigers have kind of
1:20
Speaker 1: earned the right this season to kind of slug through
1:26
Speaker 1: a couple of these stretches while getting wins and holding
1:30
Speaker 1: off you know, the Guardians who won't go away, like
1:34
Speaker 1: they've earned the right to not play their best baseball
1:37
Speaker 1: in August with the idea of being like you gotta
1:41
Speaker 1: get you got to be as right as possible. September,
1:43
Speaker 1: October blah blah blah blah, like they got. They didn't
1:46
Speaker 1: get here by accident. Like they got here. They earned
1:49
Speaker 1: it their way into this situation where, you know, at
1:52
Speaker 1: times looks like this guy is falling down. If they
1:55
Speaker 1: didn't go through that really, really rough stretch, they they'd
1:59
Speaker 1: be an even better position than they are now. But
2:01
Speaker 1: they are, we are seeing things kind of correcting their
2:04
Speaker 1: way into something where it's like, Okay, I see how
2:08
Speaker 1: this all could come together. They've earned that right. Doesn't
2:12
Speaker 1: mean it's the most delightful stretch of baseball to watch,
2:16
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's the most exciting. Does it get me
2:20
Speaker 1: all charged? But at the same time, it's there's there's
2:24
Speaker 1: not a short amount of time left in the seasons.
2:26
Speaker 1: Obviously not a long left. The amount of time left
2:28
Speaker 1: in the season, I feel, okay, I think I think
2:31
Speaker 1: sometimes we sometimes we overraye just feeling underage, it say,
2:35
Speaker 1: just feeling okay. Sometimes it's okay to just be okay.
2:38
Speaker 2: I think that's a great point probably in life, certainly
2:41
Speaker 2: throughout the course of one hundred and sixty two game season.
2:45
Speaker 2: Right now, just stacking wins, keeping the Guardians at bay,
2:48
Speaker 2: that's kind of the goal. And if you can show
2:51
Speaker 2: some signs of improving bigger picture trends along the way,
2:55
Speaker 2: that's good. Now, there are some things to like, there's
2:57
Speaker 2: some things not like in the White Sox series, but
3:00
Speaker 2: I don't know. He drew five walks in the series finale.
3:03
Speaker 2: You'll take that. And then I think the story of
3:06
Speaker 2: the day was Troy Melton, who was supposed to go
3:09
Speaker 2: two or three innings. He ended up going five because
3:12
Speaker 2: he was stellar. As people asking should this guy's just
3:15
Speaker 2: stay in the rotation? And I think that's kind of
3:18
Speaker 2: an interesting and perhaps more complicated discussion than it would
3:22
Speaker 2: seem on its surface, because it's easy to be like, oh,
3:25
Speaker 2: he's really good, he's been really good in his past
3:27
Speaker 2: two starts. He should say a starter. You could also
3:30
Speaker 2: argue the Tiger's biggest need for him is in the
3:33
Speaker 2: bullpit and a guy with power stuff swing and miss,
3:36
Speaker 2: you can use him more often, but less innings. Keep
3:40
Speaker 2: in mind, this guy has never thrown as many innings
3:43
Speaker 2: in his life. If he were to go the rest
3:45
Speaker 2: of the season as a starter, it's possible he could
3:48
Speaker 2: come up on an inning's limit and you'd have to
3:50
Speaker 2: shut him down. Before the postseason and the pin it's
3:53
Speaker 2: a little more flexible. So I'm probably in favor of
3:57
Speaker 2: leaving him in a role like this where he can
3:59
Speaker 2: pay which in a variety of scenarios. If that's leverage relief, great.
4:04
Speaker 2: If that's being an opener and it ends up going
4:06
Speaker 2: five because he's so good, that's great too. I think
4:09
Speaker 2: maybe this is the perfect role for Melton, and you
4:12
Speaker 2: shouldn't mess with it just on the uh the idea
4:16
Speaker 2: that oh, he could go seven shutout every time, because
4:19
Speaker 2: that's probably not realistic either for a rookie pitcher.
4:24
Speaker 1: There's a couple of questions there. Do I want Melton
4:28
Speaker 1: just in the rotation? Yes, yes, I do. I am
4:32
Speaker 1: in I am in favor of making that a thing,
4:35
Speaker 1: partially because he's a young player obviously, like and I
4:40
Speaker 1: don't like and I like young players having consistent approaches
4:45
Speaker 1: and you know, situations they go into right, and so like,
4:49
Speaker 1: this is something that he hasn't done a whole lot
4:51
Speaker 1: of and we and we're asking him to do it
4:53
Speaker 1: at the highest level.
4:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:55
Speaker 1: And then also at you know, in the variety of situations.
5:00
Speaker 1: In some ways you could argue, I want to say unfair,
5:03
Speaker 1: but not as ideal because I was thinking about this
5:07
Speaker 1: and I actually should have looked it up. I just,
5:09
Speaker 1: you know, got a lot of things on my mind.
5:10
Speaker 1: Can't look up every little thing. I was like, if
5:13
Speaker 1: he if three starts and we'll just do the starts
5:17
Speaker 1: three starts for Troy Melton happened with Jackson Joe, what
5:22
Speaker 1: would the hype level be? Like we we we you know,
5:25
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying, and and and Melton's stuff
5:29
Speaker 1: is as impressive, uh as totality as Jackson job. Is
5:35
Speaker 1: that a hot take?
5:36
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe look at stuff. Plus they're pretty similar.
5:40
Speaker 2: Melton stuff is off the charts right now.
5:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what I want. However, I understand that's
5:45
Speaker 1: just not really how they constructed it. And also, if
5:48
Speaker 1: you're a j if you're Scott, if you're Fetter, you're
5:50
Speaker 1: not necessarily trying to rely on a dude who you know,
5:54
Speaker 1: just joined the major league team here in a couple
5:56
Speaker 1: of weeks as one of your you know, one of
5:57
Speaker 1: your five or even six or you know three, or
6:00
Speaker 1: in a playoff series. So I understand it. So I
6:05
Speaker 1: do agree with you and disagree with you what I want.
6:08
Speaker 1: But what I agree with you is it probably is
6:10
Speaker 1: the best use for the team to have him in
6:14
Speaker 1: that role that you're saying. I think he would probably
6:17
Speaker 1: excel better just going every fifth day that if that
6:19
Speaker 1: makes sense.
6:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's hard to say too, right, short outings, short bursts,
6:26
Speaker 2: or going three times through the order, which better sets
6:28
Speaker 2: them up for success in his rookie season. I also
6:31
Speaker 2: argue you might be better positioned to get the most
6:34
Speaker 2: out of him if he's more often going one or
6:37
Speaker 2: two linux perhaps, but okay, but again, if he pitches
6:42
Speaker 2: like he did here on Wednesday, he's gonna do okay.
6:46
Speaker 1: You know why?
6:46
Speaker 2: He was good freaking pounded the zone. Yes, first fourteen
6:50
Speaker 2: plus batters, first pitch strikes, was in the zone all day,
6:54
Speaker 2: and it's power stuff. This isn't Chris Paddock, this isn't
6:58
Speaker 2: Charlie Morton. This isn't Jack Fred. I mean, this is
7:01
Speaker 2: ninety seven ninety eight, big power breaking ball, throwing the
7:05
Speaker 2: sinker like this is just really good. This is what
7:09
Speaker 2: you want. I had kind of been on record saying
7:11
Speaker 2: I still think his ceiling probably like fourth starter. Watching
7:16
Speaker 2: it now, I'm like today, I don't know, I could
7:19
Speaker 2: be more easily talked into at least a little bit higher.
7:21
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's the next Ark Schoogle or right
7:23
Speaker 2: handed Ark Schoogle. I don't know. I think I think
7:27
Speaker 2: that's a question, like what is his ceiling. I don't
7:31
Speaker 2: want to overrate it based on one outing. There's a
7:34
Speaker 2: time a young Casey Mayes went like six and a
7:36
Speaker 2: third no hit against the White Sox. So let's keep
7:38
Speaker 2: that in mind. Let's keep the order in mind. Man,
7:42
Speaker 2: mom does some stuff that's really good.
7:46
Speaker 1: No, And I you know, this is probably inaccurate to
7:50
Speaker 1: say it was one hundred percent of the time, But
7:51
Speaker 1: I never really felt like he got away with anything,
7:55
Speaker 1: like like I like like it's kind of how I uh,
7:58
Speaker 1: you know, define that outing just felt like everything was purposeful,
8:01
Speaker 1: not perfectly located, but well well located. And even you know,
8:06
Speaker 1: even the first hit, the only hit he gave up
8:08
Speaker 1: was not a you know what a terrible pitch wasn't
8:11
Speaker 1: like a flat out hanger. Is actually kind of a
8:13
Speaker 1: pretty good piece of hitting by Louis Robert Jr. So
8:16
Speaker 1: uh so, yeah, I mean I I would like to
8:19
Speaker 1: see Melton used in the most advantageous role. But the
8:24
Speaker 1: problem is when you do this, it's gonna be one
8:26
Speaker 1: of those games. We were down six to three and
8:29
Speaker 1: it's the fourth inning, and it's like, is that getting
8:32
Speaker 1: your the most out of melt? You see what I'm saying?
8:34
Speaker 1: Like that, that that's the that's the the the other
8:38
Speaker 1: end of the sword there. So hard not to get
8:41
Speaker 1: excited about what we saw today, and also hard not
8:44
Speaker 1: to be concerned with something that we read, which we
8:46
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here. I hope you guys are
9:57
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube. Thank you if you are, Thank you
9:59
Speaker 1: wherever you are. Listen like subscribe if you haven't already
10:02
Speaker 1: but we got we got. We're gonna pull up a
10:04
Speaker 1: graphic here of as Frank and I would say, as
10:09
Speaker 1: stern as you will see aj Hinch talk about a player,
10:14
Speaker 1: and that is him talking about one Tommy Kinley, and uh, well,
10:18
Speaker 1: we'll pull this up here so I can so I
10:20
Speaker 1: can read it for everybody. This is aj Hinch on
10:23
Speaker 1: Tommy Kinley's struggles quote. He doesn't get to pitch for free.
10:29
Speaker 1: The situation is going to dictate whether the innings are
10:32
Speaker 1: there for him. We try to get him in as
10:34
Speaker 1: low leverage or low pressure situations as possible so he
10:38
Speaker 1: can work on things. But we've got to compete on
10:41
Speaker 1: the field. This is not practice. Who I got cool off?
10:47
Speaker 1: I think I was sweat and reading that Cody like that.
10:49
Speaker 1: That is some kind of statement by by the old
10:53
Speaker 1: skipper there man.
10:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. Aj Hinch does not say things like this on accident.
11:01
Speaker 2: So this was purposeful. Whether the reasons behind it, we
11:06
Speaker 2: can debate. The message itself hard not to agree with.
11:10
Speaker 2: Based on Kinley's recent performance, It's actually kind of crazy
11:13
Speaker 2: just how hard he has fallen off. But he's become
11:18
Speaker 2: kind of unusable. Let's look at just his last eleven games.
11:22
Speaker 2: He's allowed fifteen earned runs. That's a fifteen point five
11:26
Speaker 2: ADRA could go all the way back to the end
11:28
Speaker 2: of June. Let's look at his last seventeen games. His
11:33
Speaker 2: THERA is fourteen. He's allowed twenty two earned runs and
11:37
Speaker 2: thirteen and a third innings. That is not gonna cut it.
11:43
Speaker 2: And I think that creates an awkward situation of what
11:47
Speaker 2: do you do My hot take for the day, Keen
11:50
Speaker 2: should bring back the phantom. Il M'll be right down
11:54
Speaker 2: on this a couple of years ago under the thought like,
11:57
Speaker 2: it's not good for players. It's not fair for a
11:59
Speaker 2: team just say, oh, you're injured, even though you're not.
12:03
Speaker 2: And that certainly makes a lot of sense. But man,
12:06
Speaker 2: is there an advantage for players too, because a few
12:10
Speaker 2: years ago, he says, could have said, Tommy, you're gonna
12:14
Speaker 2: say your arm hurts, and you're gonna go work with
12:17
Speaker 2: our pitching coaches. Maybe we'll have you do a couple
12:20
Speaker 2: outings in Toledo and you'll still get paid, you'll still
12:24
Speaker 2: get service time, and we'll get your right back up
12:26
Speaker 2: here and hopefully you'll be fixed. You can't really do
12:29
Speaker 2: that with Kainley, So what your options are? Throw them out?
12:32
Speaker 2: Here and low leverage games that become blowouts or close
12:36
Speaker 2: games that become not close games like we've seen, let
12:40
Speaker 2: them continue to get pounded. We're at the point where
12:43
Speaker 2: is Tommy Kinley gonna finish the season on the roster.
12:46
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're looking at, that he could
12:48
Speaker 2: get dfa'd because it's just been so bad and the
12:52
Speaker 2: Tigers can't really afford this given the makeup of the
12:55
Speaker 2: rest of their bullpen. If Phantom I lware an option,
12:59
Speaker 2: you don't have to df right now. I don't. I
13:01
Speaker 2: don't think AJ Hinch says this. If this idea is
13:04
Speaker 2: not being batted around between AJ and between the front office,
13:07
Speaker 2: Tommy Kingley's time with the Tigers could be nearing its end,
13:11
Speaker 2: which is not something I think any of us would
13:13
Speaker 2: have thought at the end of June when he was
13:17
Speaker 2: arguably the team's best reliever. Right now, he's looking like
13:20
Speaker 2: a guy who might not make it through the season
13:22
Speaker 2: unless there are some real corrections quick.
13:26
Speaker 1: Which is I mean, obviously I've watched what he's done
13:30
Speaker 1: and I like seen you know how it looks. But
13:33
Speaker 1: it's still like crazy to me that, like whatever you
13:36
Speaker 1: unlocked for, you know, half the season is like you
13:41
Speaker 1: can't just you can't get that back. Like and that's
13:43
Speaker 1: from the player perspective and the front office, you know,
13:46
Speaker 1: pitching lab, you know, coaching perspective, like like is that
13:49
Speaker 1: do you have somebody in in your system and and
13:53
Speaker 1: you know or like you find on the way or
13:55
Speaker 1: wire that you're gonna be like more confident that you
13:57
Speaker 1: could unlock something there, Like, Hey.
14:00
Speaker 2: A lot of guys you would feel would pitch better
14:02
Speaker 2: than a fifteen e R.
14:04
Speaker 1: Is he a seawalled hold placeholder?
14:08
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's gonna make it that far.
14:10
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean I'm not saying you're I.
14:13
Speaker 2: Know that's harsh, but you're watching it. Watching in the
14:16
Speaker 2: other day, it was like reading that aj Hinch quote,
14:20
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know how much longer this can
14:22
Speaker 2: go on. So he gets Gibson Long just came back,
14:26
Speaker 2: had himself a nice outing, so he could be a
14:29
Speaker 2: piece to the puzzle. Lean talking about Cody Hoyer a
14:32
Speaker 2: little bit, who they sent out. You know, his first
14:35
Speaker 2: couple outings weren't great, left some stuff over the middle,
14:37
Speaker 2: got pummeled, but has really good stuff, has really good extension.
14:43
Speaker 2: He could be bad and still not have a fifteen
14:45
Speaker 2: era he sent Chase Lee out, who was pretty good
14:48
Speaker 2: for you for a time. You have Jose Orkiti knocking
14:51
Speaker 2: on the door. I don't know what's gonna happen with
14:53
Speaker 2: Alex Cobb, and I'm not rolling my breath there, but
14:56
Speaker 2: he's probably up to Toledo. Like you have some guys
15:00
Speaker 2: who are options, and more guys coming even before Paul
15:04
Speaker 2: seawalled on September tenth. So it's like, how long can
15:07
Speaker 2: you justify sticking with Kanelee. Do you think you can
15:09
Speaker 2: recapture the version of the changeup that made him so
15:12
Speaker 2: good or we've seen him try to throw the fastball
15:16
Speaker 2: a little bit, hasn't really gone well so far. It's
15:20
Speaker 2: just as risky to keep him as it is to
15:21
Speaker 2: move on at this point.
15:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a that's a fair thought. I
15:29
Speaker 1: still maintain that like some of those some of those
15:33
Speaker 1: options don't necessarily seem that great.
15:35
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, the ceiling of Kaneley is
15:38
Speaker 2: maybe higher than any of those guys that we just
15:40
Speaker 2: look So that's probably the argument.
15:42
Speaker 1: But you do owe it to yourself, like as an organization,
15:45
Speaker 1: like you owe it to yourself to ring out every
15:48
Speaker 1: single wrinkle, every single like you know, biometric data point
15:55
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, to try to get back to
15:57
Speaker 1: what Canley was doing before you make that decision. It
16:00
Speaker 1: can't just be well, we're not using him in enough
16:03
Speaker 1: high leverage or medium leverage like situations. Is therefore it's
16:08
Speaker 1: a roster space. We'd rather have this guy. You see
16:10
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, like, you better be damn sure that
16:14
Speaker 1: the tank is empty, and maybe it is, and maybe
16:16
Speaker 1: it is, and I would concede that point. I brought up.
16:19
Speaker 1: Some people have brought this up. I think I brought
16:21
Speaker 1: up a couple months ago. It's like the innings log
16:23
Speaker 1: for this guy and the high leverage innings log for
16:28
Speaker 1: this guy was like notough in a long time, Like
16:32
Speaker 1: I think people were still wearing masks. Was like the
16:35
Speaker 1: last time he was doing.
16:36
Speaker 2: Before before anyone wore a mask. Twenty nineteen, he threw
16:40
Speaker 2: sixty one in a third innings. He's not eclipsed, I mean,
16:44
Speaker 2: forty six point two innings this year. It's his highest
16:46
Speaker 2: since twenty nineteen. It's the second high, third highest inning
16:50
Speaker 2: total of his entire career. He was used a lot
16:54
Speaker 2: in the first half of this season. He threw forty
16:57
Speaker 2: two and two thirds last year, but he also made
16:59
Speaker 2: nine appearances in the playoffs, so it's kind of a
17:02
Speaker 2: higher endings total than he was used to last year
17:04
Speaker 2: a little bit, giving he pitched into the World Series
17:08
Speaker 2: and then he's just kind of ran into the ground
17:10
Speaker 2: the first half of this year. So yeah, you talk
17:12
Speaker 2: about him seeing the tank. Maybe that's the simplest explanation.
17:16
Speaker 2: He's been used a lot, and I'm not sure that
17:18
Speaker 2: inspires confidence that he's gonna magically regain his stuff next week.
17:25
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a coincidence that aj Hinch says
17:29
Speaker 1: this and then later on in the game after this quote,
17:35
Speaker 1: he puts Finnigan in in the eighth inning and and
17:38
Speaker 1: and gonna put in the no no, no. But what I'm saying,
17:41
Speaker 1: like the best Canley thing was like that combination you
17:45
Speaker 1: would go either way. Now there's a new one, is
17:47
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like, you know, Finnegan is not
17:49
Speaker 1: just a ninth enning guy like you like, it's like
17:51
Speaker 1: so sure, yeah, so this is what I mean. So,
17:54
Speaker 1: uh yeah, you certainly not put him in there in
17:56
Speaker 1: that situation. That's not what I met. Uh well, let
17:58
Speaker 1: me ask you this, then the kind of Boone and
18:00
Speaker 1: the Canley thing we've mentioned that, like the Scott Harris
18:04
Speaker 1: reputation for acquiring pictures is at like way more muddied
18:11
Speaker 1: then perhaps perhaps initially thought and maybe kind of trending
18:15
Speaker 1: toward a different direction. If they dfa him, let's just say,
18:20
Speaker 1: in two weeks whatever can't get anything else out of them?
18:25
Speaker 1: What is the grade for the Canley signing? Like how
18:27
Speaker 1: like in terms of like the Scott Harris like approached
18:30
Speaker 1: the bullpens and free agency and all that stuff, because
18:32
Speaker 1: that's a complication.
18:33
Speaker 2: Well, I think you have to take it out of
18:36
Speaker 2: its hole. And this hole is going to be a
18:37
Speaker 2: five point two on ERA and forty six innings nine saves.
18:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, a five point two on e R.
18:47
Speaker 1: That's a a D.
18:48
Speaker 2: That's a D.
18:48
Speaker 1: But you also clearly do not get twenty something games
18:52
Speaker 1: above five hundreds without him.
18:53
Speaker 2: I guess that's the problem with like judging relievers solely
18:56
Speaker 2: based on ERA. So then the holds versus the meltdowns.
19:02
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe you can get it a C
19:04
Speaker 2: because he was pretty good for a couple of months.
19:06
Speaker 2: Like I, you're right, so that's a very sot one
19:08
Speaker 2: to grade, but I don't think the grad ends up
19:10
Speaker 2: being good anyway you cut it.
19:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. All right, we're gonna take a quick break,
19:15
Speaker 1: and then afterward we're gonna talk about a player that
19:18
Speaker 1: like maybe we ought to just kind of get, like
19:21
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Speaker 2: All right, coming back here, well, and I got a
20:30
Speaker 2: quick note for you here, And Tommy Kinley as of today,
20:34
Speaker 2: still has a positive win probability added I believe one
20:38
Speaker 2: point four to oh that's somewhere around probably like the
20:41
Speaker 2: top thirty five or leaf pitchers in baseball. So there's
20:46
Speaker 2: if you dig into the advanced metrics, there's still some
20:48
Speaker 2: evidence of the positive contributions he gave the team.
20:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, tough sport. So I was thinking of this. I've
20:58
Speaker 1: been actually wanting to proach this topic with you for
21:01
Speaker 1: about a week now, and given how this series started,
21:05
Speaker 1: I think it's an appropriate time to bring it up.
21:07
Speaker 1: And that's you know, Specer Torklesen has has kind of
21:12
Speaker 1: quietly been one of your more reliable bats. Like we've
21:17
Speaker 1: talked about the roller coaster of of Riley Green. We
21:21
Speaker 1: we we we know exactly even this, you know, the
21:25
Speaker 1: best version of hobby byas we've seen in the Tigers uniform,
21:28
Speaker 1: it still comes with that variance m kinstry, you know,
21:32
Speaker 1: like Torres. You know, we'll talk about that later in
21:34
Speaker 1: the week, but like there's actually been a pretty steady
21:37
Speaker 1: presence of Spencer Tourklsen and the month of July, which
21:40
Speaker 1: is a month that probably gonna want to forget, uh,
21:43
Speaker 1: you know, if this season turns out to be you know,
21:45
Speaker 1: pretty cool or you know, going to go back to
21:48
Speaker 1: a lot if they falter. He was just as steady
21:51
Speaker 1: a guy in the lineup as they had. He was
21:53
Speaker 1: a two seventy hitter. He had a eight forty six
21:56
Speaker 1: ops uh you know, six of his home runs. And
21:59
Speaker 1: speaking of the home run thing, like, I don't want
22:01
Speaker 1: to overrate it, but it is kind of unique and
22:04
Speaker 1: cool that you know, he's gonna get thirty home runs
22:07
Speaker 1: two in uh, you know, barring something unforeseen, two in
22:10
Speaker 1: three seasons, and and and and he proved to be
22:14
Speaker 1: clutch in that situation on Monday with that Eighthenning home run,
22:18
Speaker 1: and yeah, you see the splits right here. And June
22:21
Speaker 1: was his down month, but they obviously were able to
22:23
Speaker 1: ride that out, but it with he could have been
22:26
Speaker 1: a lot worse about Spencer Togelsen in the kind of
22:28
Speaker 1: middle back, middle of your lineup in the month of
22:31
Speaker 1: July and then in August he's still performing at like
22:35
Speaker 1: above his average clip. You know, as the team is,
22:39
Speaker 1: you know, not playing their best ball. So I think
22:41
Speaker 1: we ought to like appreciate what he's doing right now,
22:44
Speaker 1: is kind of my point.
22:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. It's kind of become so steady that, yeah,
22:50
Speaker 2: it's easy to maybe not give it. It's full due.
22:53
Speaker 2: Torque's just been really good all year. And when we
22:56
Speaker 2: were talking in April and May, like will this continue?
23:00
Speaker 2: Is this just a mirage? I was like, I don't
23:02
Speaker 2: know if that he's going to keep playing at an
23:04
Speaker 2: MVP level, but all the bad at Baldata says he
23:07
Speaker 2: was if he kept doing what he was doing, he
23:10
Speaker 2: was going to have success, and that is exactly what
23:12
Speaker 2: has happened. He's leveled off a little bit from just
23:15
Speaker 2: the totally tourd start, but he's continued to hit for
23:18
Speaker 2: power He's come out of all his mini droughts performing well.
23:25
Speaker 2: His one base percentage is still above three point thirty,
23:27
Speaker 2: which I really love. He's even playing a little better
23:30
Speaker 2: in the field. He's grading out positively in terms of
23:32
Speaker 2: defensive run saved. He's not perfect there, but he really
23:35
Speaker 2: is better than he was a couple of years ago. Like,
23:38
Speaker 2: there's a lot to like, and you can do a
23:40
Speaker 2: lot worse than this level of contribution from your first baseman.
23:45
Speaker 2: I think Tork deserves a lot of credit given what
23:48
Speaker 2: he's gone through, the scrutiny, all the times we talked
23:51
Speaker 2: about him on this podcast and like, what do you
23:54
Speaker 2: do this year? Man? He's been rock solid and he's
24:00
Speaker 2: legitimate all the order bat right now.
24:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, in years past on this podcast,
24:06
Speaker 1: we had kind of compared him to Andrew Vaughan, and
24:11
Speaker 1: one of the things that we had said is that, like, well,
24:13
Speaker 1: could you imagine if Torque went to another organization and
24:16
Speaker 1: started tearing it up. Well, White Tucks are going through
24:20
Speaker 1: that right now. But even so, he has the home
24:22
Speaker 1: run in the eighth inning on on Monday, and then
24:27
Speaker 1: and then today he sets up the only run of
24:30
Speaker 1: the game with that with with with that double with
24:33
Speaker 1: carry Carpenter on first base and probably is an RBI
24:37
Speaker 1: by the way, Louise Robert doesn't cut that ball off.
24:39
Speaker 1: So so I just wanted to bring up, like the
24:43
Speaker 1: criticisms of Riley Green, is you know, is he clutching?
24:46
Speaker 1: You know, all all that stuff. Well, Spencer Torkelsen with
24:49
Speaker 1: two outs and runners in scoring position is a two
24:51
Speaker 1: eighty eight hitter with an eight ninety two ops. You
24:56
Speaker 1: take that, He's got an eight eighty one ops in
24:59
Speaker 1: Leyton close games, and uh, in high leverage period he's
25:04
Speaker 1: a two seventy one hitter with an eight ninety oh ps.
25:07
Speaker 1: Like he's actually one of your more clutch guys like that,
25:11
Speaker 1: Like all all the splits kind of back that up,
25:14
Speaker 1: and we saw a couple of examples of that this week.
25:17
Speaker 1: So I just kind of think, like, you know, some
25:19
Speaker 1: people say, like, you know, should you trade Torque? And
25:23
Speaker 1: these are definitely some off season topics that we will
25:25
Speaker 1: that we will get to uh this winter. But all
25:29
Speaker 1: that is fine, But I just wanted to make sure
25:31
Speaker 1: that we realized, like, Okay, we got it. You're watching
25:34
Speaker 1: a pretty good ball player, You're watching a pretty good hitter.
25:36
Speaker 1: You're watching a guy who can make some impressive plays offensively.
25:40
Speaker 1: I actually have been impressed with his arm this year,
25:42
Speaker 1: Cody more so than than than the pick action and
25:46
Speaker 1: and so and so. Yeah, Like I just I just
25:49
Speaker 1: feel like, if there's a where would they be without
25:51
Speaker 1: this guy? I mean, the numbers say they would be
25:54
Speaker 1: they would be worse offensively, specifically in clutch situations. If
25:58
Speaker 1: Spencer Turgelsen was the spec of Toorkalsen that none of
26:01
Speaker 1: us saw coming. So it's ignore her.
26:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, And people are always asking me. I got asked
26:06
Speaker 2: my mail bag on the Athletic kind of about the
26:08
Speaker 2: long term prognosis for Torklesin. I think that's hard, right.
26:12
Speaker 2: I think it's another one of those questions that is
26:14
Speaker 2: ultimately a little bit pointless. Tigers aren't gonna go and
26:17
Speaker 2: give him a huge contract extension because he's having a
26:20
Speaker 2: good year. I think you absolutely have to roll, you know,
26:23
Speaker 2: this guy rolling the next year with like towards our
26:26
Speaker 2: first basement, and then you see what happens. He's under
26:29
Speaker 2: team control until I think twenty twenty eight, kind of
26:32
Speaker 2: get an extra year. I believe because of the demotions
26:34
Speaker 2: that we're that he experienced, he's a right handed hitting
26:39
Speaker 2: first baseman. It's not a profile. Other teams value a
26:42
Speaker 2: lot this idea that like oh, sell high on Torque
26:44
Speaker 2: into the off season. I don't know. I don't know
26:46
Speaker 2: that there's going to be a team banging down your
26:47
Speaker 2: door to get Spencer torkleson Cole Keith playing third. I
26:52
Speaker 2: don't know. I'll be fascinated to see what they do
26:54
Speaker 2: in the infield this winter. But I think towarks your
26:57
Speaker 2: first base. Yeah, circumstances dictate otherwise.
27:02
Speaker 1: Right, and uh looking up? Yeah, he's second to Pete
27:09
Speaker 1: Alonzo and home runs among all first basemen in Major
27:12
Speaker 1: League Baseball. Like that, I mean, you'll take that. And
27:15
Speaker 1: by the way, that's also another thing to your point.
27:18
Speaker 1: Pete Alonzo went through it in free agency, you know,
27:22
Speaker 1: this past year, so.
27:23
Speaker 2: A great example. Yeah, Pete Alonzo is not having a
27:26
Speaker 2: hard time. What's it going to be like for torklesin
27:30
Speaker 2: But I you know, I've been He's been a more
27:33
Speaker 2: complete hitter, which is always what I wanted to see
27:35
Speaker 2: for tork more than the home run totals like three
27:37
Speaker 2: p thirty oh VP two forty two average. Not not killer,
27:41
Speaker 2: but you can live with that. He's taken his walks
27:44
Speaker 2: at ten percent walk right, especially in this lineup, that
27:47
Speaker 2: is really important. He's a two war player right now,
27:50
Speaker 2: is going to finish the year. If he continues to perform,
27:53
Speaker 2: probably is more than a three win first baseman at
27:58
Speaker 2: first base, where there is still a lot of power
28:00
Speaker 2: that doesn't make him like it probably is right at
28:04
Speaker 2: the borderline All Star, which is what he was this year.
28:07
Speaker 2: He's a borderline All Star who didn't get in the
28:09
Speaker 2: All Star Game. It doesn't mean we have to like
28:13
Speaker 2: lose our minds over oh my god, it's so amazing,
28:15
Speaker 2: but we should appreciate, like, this guy's becoming a really
28:17
Speaker 2: good baseball players have a.
28:18
Speaker 1: Really good year. Yeah, not not out here proclaiming him
28:22
Speaker 1: to be a franchise Jesus Cornerstone had trouble getting that
28:26
Speaker 1: word out. But I think right now for the trajectory
28:30
Speaker 1: of the of the franchise for the next several years,
28:32
Speaker 1: he's a franchise stabilizer. Like you, I think you can
28:35
Speaker 1: you kind of feel like you have this Yeah, yeah,
28:40
Speaker 1: you have some level of production at first base that
28:42
Speaker 1: you don't have to you don't have a hole there,
28:44
Speaker 1: like like honestly, Scott Harris thought coming into the season,
28:47
Speaker 1: which you know why the moves from real quick. I
28:52
Speaker 1: just wanted to say my piece about Luis Robert Jr.
28:55
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, he cut off. He cut off the
28:57
Speaker 1: ball there in the fourth ending on works hit and
29:00
Speaker 1: then he tracked down Wentzel Perez's uh you know, would
29:04
Speaker 1: have been extra base hip ends up being a sack
29:06
Speaker 1: fly a difference in the game. He had to hit
29:07
Speaker 1: off Melton. That's why little things like that is why
29:12
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, surely there's some team that knows
29:14
Speaker 1: how to utilize his physical traits that could like get
29:17
Speaker 1: the most out of them. I don't know if the
29:19
Speaker 1: Tigers are that team, and I'm sure the White Sox
29:21
Speaker 1: are trying to, you know, get the most out of
29:23
Speaker 1: him as an asset, whether it's on the field or
29:25
Speaker 1: in a trade. But that's that kind of thing is
29:28
Speaker 1: why I'm like, why not take a chance on athlete
29:31
Speaker 1: like that at at cost? And apparently the cost is
29:34
Speaker 1: too high because nobody I'm.
29:36
Speaker 2: Not sure you're ever really going to get him at cost.
29:39
Speaker 2: And if Scott Harris is not going to trade a
29:41
Speaker 2: mid tier prospect for like a proven swinging miss closer,
29:46
Speaker 2: I'm not sure he would trade cash consideration for Luis Robert.
29:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for sure. And now the Whites, and it'll
29:52
Speaker 1: probably be in the ABYSS that is the White Sox
29:55
Speaker 1: here for move forward, all right, go to anything else
29:59
Speaker 1: before we jet out of here.
30:01
Speaker 2: Now that covers it, we will be back with another
30:03
Speaker 2: episode shortly. We'll cover glabor support as we'll cover some
30:07
Speaker 2: more storylines as we get closer and closer to the
30:11
Speaker 2: home stretch.
30:12
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can follow us on x frooming on Twitter
30:15
Speaker 1: at Cody Stave and Haagen, im at Kieran on his course,
30:17
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30:20
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30:23
Speaker 1: everybody with a ball know where you are. Also YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Apple, Spotify.
30:30
Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you,
30:32
Speaker 1: so for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have great day,