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5 things we learned in 2024 · Project Podcast

• 0:08
  Hello, and welcome to the APM Podcast.
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  APM is the childhood body for the project profession.
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  I'm Emma Devita, editor of Project Journal and your host.
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  2024 is drawing to a close, and with a new year just around the
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  corner, here at the APM Podcast, we're in a reflective mood.
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  In this episode, we're going to look back at what we've learned
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  from the 25 episodes we've published this year.
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  We've covered everything from managing radioactive waste to
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  making documentaries for the BBC, but would have been the
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  standout lessons. The fastest moving story of the
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  past 12 months has been artificial intelligence.
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  As we heard in our last episode, AI has gone from future trend to
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  daily reality in the blink of an eye for many project
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  professionals. If you're not already using AI,
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  there's a good chance you will be by the end of 2025.
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  We urge you to check out our AI special to make sure you're up
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  to speed. But while the pace of change
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  remained a challenge in 2024, many of our podcast guests
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  reminded us that the fundamental principles of great project
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  management remain constant. If anything, as the world
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  becomes more complex, the need for disciplined project
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  management becomes greater. We've heard many stories on this
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  podcast of organisations that are reaping the benefits of a
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  professionalised project function.
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  Take the National Trust for instance, which was the subject
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  of a three-part series we've put out in the spring.
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  We're going to hear more from the Trust, as well as other
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  inspirational teams and project leaders across the course of
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  this episode as we revisit our favourite moments of 2024.
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  So grab yourself a mince pie and listen on.
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  In 2024 we published our first ever episodes recorded on site
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  at various project locations. Taking our mics into the field
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  and seeing projects up close gave us an amazing insight into
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  the hard work and dedication of APM members and partners across
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  the country. In January I drove out to
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  Gloucestershire to visit Dereham Park, a 17th century house and
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  garden near Bath, which recently underwent a £3.2 million
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  transformation. The Baroque Star House had
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  fallen into disrepair before passing into the National
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  Trust's hands in the 1960s, and in late 2015 the project to
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  restore the house to its original beauty got the green
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  light On site at Dereham. After a tour across the house's
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  creaking floorboards and a stop at the Cosy Tea Room, I met the
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  trust's head of strategic planning projects and programme
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  management, Mike Hudson, who told me about the advantages
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  that the increased professionalisation of project
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  management had brought to the charity.
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  Well, I mean, I wanted to ask you about, you know, what's
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  advantages or benefits How has the increased
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  professionalisation of project management within National Trust
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  that she. Brought.
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  We are now a project management organisation and we weren't when
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  we started this. So people really appreciate the
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  value that project management brings and the value that really
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  excellent project managers can, can bring.
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  And even the, even the language. So even when we first started,
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  you know, we talked about business cases and gates and
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  risk management and sponsors. And it was, it's like a new
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  language for people that didn't really get it.
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  And now it's, it's a common language that's common outside
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  of project managers and outside of the profession.
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  It's just a common language in the organisation, which I think
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  has made a kind of a real difference.
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  Where is National Trust now and what are your ambitions for the
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  future in terms of professionalising it?
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  I would say it's probably halfway between the middle and
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  the kind of world class end. So we we've certainly not got
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  there yet. Again, one of the kind of very
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  conscious piece, pieces of internal branding that I did was
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  the team I run we refer to as the Centre of excellence for
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  planning projects and programmes.
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  We deliberately chose that that wording not because it's a
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  destination we've reached, but it's, it's a kind of journey
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  that we're on. Why would we aspire to do that?
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  Well, we're Europe's largest conservation charity.
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  We've got more members than the people living in Norway.
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  So we've got, we've got nearly, you know, we've got nearly
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  6,000,000 members and we should be the best at what we do.
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  So we should be the best at delivering those sorts of
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  projects because we're entrusted with these charitable funds and
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  the scale that we are, the impact we can have.
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  Why wouldn't we aspire for that? It's not good enough to kind of
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  put up with second best in my view.
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  So that's, that's what I that's what I kind of push us forward
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  for. Another on site trip in the
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  summer took me to a totally different project Environment.
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  Westcott in Buckinghamshire is the home of Namo Space, where I
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  met a team who work on propulsion systems for space
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  rocket engines and thrusters. The airfield site seemed eerily
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  quiet compared to the bustle of Deer and Park, but once inside,
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  I found the team exceeded the same energy and passion for
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  projects that I encountered at sites across the country.
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  On the desk is a. Red.
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  Button a big. Red button?
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  Yeah, it does exactly what you expect.
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  Emergency sort, Normal abort. You can hit it now.
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  It's not going to do anything if you hit it now.
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  Can I? Yeah, absolutely.
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  In the following clip, Programme Manager Lucy Stock tells me
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  about the biggest project management lessons she has
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  learnt over her career in the space sector.
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  You know, one thing which I've learnt over years of project
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  management, which I think is probably the key is
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  understanding where to dive into the deep end, into the detail
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  and where you can not manage things so closely.
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  So with really big projects, there's different streams of
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  work going on that interact in different ways.
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  And I think it's being really sensible about the bits that
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  need to be micromanaged on a day by day, hourly basis.
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  You know, it's, it's, it's super critical, super complicated and
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  really getting into the weeds of those areas.
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  But you obviously, you obviously can't do that everywhere.
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  So it's understanding, depending on the stage of the project life
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  cycle and the type of project and the different streams of
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  work within it, which bits to really get into the weeds of and
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  which bits you don't. Need to how do you make a
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  decision like that? So for me, having a really
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  strong risk management process, so at the beginning of a
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  programme really delving into the high risk areas, what's
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  going to be the biggest issues that we're likely to see.
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  Obviously there's always those Black Swan events that you, it's
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  difficult to predict, but having a really strong risk analysis at
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  the beginning to try and understand where you might see
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  issues and if you do see issues, what their impact's going to be.
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  You might have an issue in one particular stream of work, but
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  actually it's not on the critical path or it can be
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  resolved easily. Standard products, you know,
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  it's, it's not going to be an issue, but there might be
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  another area that's super critical on the timeline.
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  And it's a new development. And so it's really looking at
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  the project of the whole and try and breaking it up into into
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  chunks and understanding which bits you're really going to have
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  to spend your time focusing on. OK, and I guess that breaking up
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  is key at the beginning as well, putting things into clear work
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  streams so that you can manage that as well as visiting some
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  amazing places this year. I've also done plenty of virtual
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  interviews with inspirational people both inside and outside
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  the project profession. The one who stands out most is
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  Ross Atkins, who featured on our 100th episode, a milestone we
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  celebrated earlier in 2024. After over four years of the APM
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  podcast, Ross will be a familiar face to you as a senior
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  journalist and presenter on the BBC News Channel.
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  His official job title at the Beeb is News Analysis Editor and
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  Ross has made a name for himself through his Explainer video
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  series, where he takes some of the world's most complex issues
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  and breaks them down in a digestible and accessible way.
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  Communicating complex issues clearly and concisely to
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  different audiences is also a vital skill for project
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  professionals, and Ross shares some top tips from his book The
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  Art of Explanation on how to communicate with clarity and
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  confidence. When I'm thinking about all of
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  the different people I might need to communicate with on one
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  idea or another, I always stop and think, what would this
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  person like to know from me? Let's see it from their side.
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  What are the questions or the doubts or the pieces of
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  information that they would like from me?
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  And if I can provide them with that, not a guarantee that
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  they're going to consume what Ioffer them, it's not a
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  guarantee they're going to agree with me.
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  But I am giving myself a good chance of giving them a lot of
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  information that feels relevant to them.
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  And so I've worked on big projects over the years in
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  different forms. I always try and think, even if
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  I'm dealing with 10/15/20 different people with different
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  interests in the project stopping and thinking, what do
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  each of those individuals want to know from me?
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  What would it be helpful for them to know?
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  And if I can then answer those questions, there's a good chance
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  that they're going to feel what I'm offering is relevant.
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  And if they feel it's relevant, they're much more likely to
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  engage with it. Have you got any advice?
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  Or top tips and verbally delivering information and also
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  dealing with difficult comments or.
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  Feedback or questions that people.
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  Ask. Well, I think in the case of if
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  you're going into a meeting, whatever the circumstance where
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  you're likely to be asked questions that could be
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  challenging or difficult to answer.
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  I mean, that's something that all of us experience in the
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  workplace, not in a bad way. It's just quite correct that in
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  lots of circumstances our ideas and our plans are challenged and
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  discussed. That's completely normal.
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  The thing that I try and do, and you learn this from doing
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  interviews in the news, is it's good to try and anticipate what
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  you think you're going to be asked.
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  So if I'm, if I'm being interviewed myself, such as in
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  this situation, I'll definitely stop and think in advance what
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  are the questions I'm likely to be asked.
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  And in fact, when I was preparing for this book to come
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  out, I wrote down all the different questions I thought
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  that could come up in media interviews and then work through
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  how I'd like to answer them. So you can anticipate some of
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  the things that would that might, that might come up.
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  Regular readers of Project will be familiar with Suzanne
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  Madsen's column where she answers burning questions from
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  the Project community, often on issues related to leadership.
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  Suzanne is also an award-winning author, with her books The Power
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  of Project Leadership and How to Do the Inner Work coming highly
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  recommended. She joined me on the APM podcast
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  earlier this year to discuss secrets to leadership success.
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  In the following clip, she explains why a heroic approach
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  to leadership is a trap that project professionals should
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  avoid. I think it is this piece about
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  the relation and leading through others and not being this hero
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  project manager, if we're talking more project specific,
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  who feels that I have to fly in and save everything and get
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  everything done. And if nobody's stepping up,
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  then I will step up. And, you know, I put my Cape on
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  and I just sort it all out and my, my managers and clients will
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  love me. And they do because we all want
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  a, a, a hero to come and sort it all out.
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  But that's, that's, that's a pitfall, right?
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  We need to shift out of that gear of the fixing and doing
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  into empowering others. How can I create other leaders?
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  How can I coach? So it's, I think it's the same
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  things as we just talked about before, but instead of telling,
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  I need to really take that tiny step back and create the space
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  for others. And that comes through having
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  the conversation, it comes through asking more questions.
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  How can we do this? How can you do that?
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  What support do you need from me?
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  It's it's a gradual process of me stepping back and allowing
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  others to step up and step forward.
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  Which I'm assuming is a more sustainable.
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  Approach to leadership anyway so you've always got people who.
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  Who are not scared to make decisions or have some autonomy
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  about what they're doing, some ability to go ahead and and fix.
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  Stuff so that. Sounds sensible to me.
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  Is that actually in the real world?
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  Is that quite, quite a common approach?
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  Or are things still relatively hierarchical?
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  Or is there still much? Of this kind of hero.
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  Leadership style going. On.
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  I see quite a lot of it and I think there are some reasons for
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  it. It's because we're always up
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  against the deadline. There is more and more change.
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  There is people are moving at such pace, there is such high
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  demand on people. I think even I just unbeliev
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  it's, it's hard to imagine there can even be more pressure on
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  people now than there were 5-10 years ago, but I think that is
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  the case. Our final highlight comes from
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  Timon Deyong, who was the keynote speaker at the APM
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  conference back in June. Timon is the founder of a think
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  tank specialising in future human behaviour and societal
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  change and the implications for leadership and business
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  strategy. His clients include Morgan
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  Stanley, Vodafone, IKEA and Nike.
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  Timon is a fascinating speaker who manages to inject a sense of
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  humour as he tackles some of the most alarming problems affecting
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  society today. These are the big picture issues
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  that project leaders need to know about to say at the top of
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  their game. Here he is talking about the
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  Poly crisis, which defines the uncertain times we're living
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  through. It's very important to realise
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  that it's something some managers, leaders have had some
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  form of crisis management course.
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  So just quite a bit of knowledge I see in many organisations
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  about how do people respond to a crisis situation.
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  But the Poly crisis is something different.
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  So it's it's good for people to realise this is a different
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  situation. People feel differently, they
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  behave differently, they do their decision making
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  differently. If you don't understand that,
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  you're going to be frustrated. Things will go slower than you
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  think. If you look at a normal crisis.
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  So thinking back, for example, the 1st wave of COVID or when
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  the Ukraine war just broke out, you see that the whole society
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  is going into the same emotion, shock, horror.
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  Then they go into action mode and we're all going to
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  collaborate and we're disappointed that it's not going
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  fast enough. So we're going through the same
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  emotions, which is actually easy because we're all shocked.
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  We're all going to action mode and applaud the keyword.
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  So that is everyone is moving through this.
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  This is, it's called the disaster response cycle for
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  society. That's easy.
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  The whole team will be in shock. What we see now is that people
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  on one hand are like, hey, we're still here.
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  Yeah, we're doing this podcast right now when we'll be at the
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  conference. Like, great, we're having such a
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  good time. But then you open your news app,
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  you do some doom scrolling as we go, that these days you think,
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  oh, my God, you know, the world is doomed.
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  It's the end of the world, as we know.
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  But then you have a great call again or a cup of coffee.
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  You think that's great? We're still here and people hop
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  from, hey, we're still here. We're doing the podcast.
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  We're future focused professionals towards this is
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  the end of the world. They look at this climate news
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  and 80% of all fish in rivers, which I just read this morning
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  has disappeared the past 40 years.
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  I think it was. And I think, OK, I mean, there
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  will be no life in our rivers anymore in another 20 years.
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  What's the point? So people are all over the place
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  with their emotions. And it might be that if you are
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  a leader of a team, one of the things you have to do is find
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  out where my people, what do they need?
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  Someone needs a little bit of encouragement because they're
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  not feeling well or you know, their energy is low.
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  You know, I might you give them these directions or I'm
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  encouraging them this way, but 10 minutes later, an hour later,
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  the next day, they might feel different and the other way
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  around. So one thing this needs from
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  from from project managers where they have people involved in the
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  project, which is virtually all projects.
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  But if you're managing people, your empathy skills, your EQ
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  skills should be a lot higher than in, let's say the good old
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  days before COVID, before the Poly crisis.
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  You need to be constantly tuning in with the people around you.
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  Where are you and what do you need?
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  And you should be flexible in say, all right, you need no
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  encouragement today, but tomorrow you feel bad.
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  I, I need to adapt and, and work with you in a different way.
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  And this is asking a lot of managers and and that they're in
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  the Poly crisis well. That concludes our wrap up of
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  five things we learned in 2024. There were many more we could
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  have picked and we're also interested to hear yours.
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  How did your approach to project management evolve in 2024?
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  What new skills and insights did you pick up and how are you
• 16:53
  preparing for 2025? Let us.
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  Know in the. Comments if you're a Spotify
• 16:58
  user or e-mail us at APM Podcast at thinkpublishing.co.uk.
• 17:04
  We'll be back in the new year with many more episodes,
• 17:06
  including a celebration of five years since the launch of the
• 17:09
  APM Podcast. In the meantime, we hope you're
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  able to enjoy some much needed rest and reflection time over
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  the festive period. See you on the other side.
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  This podcast has been brought to you by APM, the chartered body
• 17:22
  for the project profession. For more information on APM,
• 17:26
  visit apm.org.uk.