Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Convicted Child Killer Susan Smith's Nonchalant Apology

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Convicted Child Killer Susan Smith's Nonchalant Apology · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with
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  Speaker 1: this woman? In the Last Days more from Susan Smith.
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  Speaker 1: As you recall, Susan Smith pretended a black male carjacked
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  Speaker 1: her and then rolled her to children in their car,
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  Speaker 1: strapped in a seat belts into a lake. Well, this
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  Speaker 1: woman not go away. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Yes, it's the same
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  Speaker 1: Susan Smith that drowned her two sons in a South
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  Speaker 1: Carolina lake back in October nineteen ninety four. Recall she's
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  Speaker 1: been throwing a fit behind bars when she didn't get
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  Speaker 1: parole for the double murders. Well, in the Last Days
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  Speaker 1: another bombshell. She casually apologized to her husband after murdering
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  Speaker 1: their children. Yes, the ex husband of Susan Smith who
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  Speaker 1: drowned her two boys in a lake reveals what is
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  Speaker 1: X wants I said just after she killed the boys. Now,
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  Speaker 1: the case just got a ton of national attention after
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  Speaker 1: Smith was denied pardon in parole and then she threw
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  Speaker 1: a fit and began misbehaving behind bars. Again, this is
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  Speaker 1: what the former husband, David said. Quote, she just casually,
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  Speaker 1: like you and I sitting here said I'm sorry, and
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  Speaker 1: that was it. Yes, sorry, he recalled, asking Susan why
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  Speaker 1: she killed their two baby boys, and she said, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know why, but sorry, let me refresh your recollection.
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  Speaker 2: Laol love.
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  Speaker 3: And he's a lady. You come on got door. And
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  Speaker 3: she's some guy jumping into a red light with her
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  Speaker 3: car with her two kids in it. And he took
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  Speaker 3: off and she got out of call here at Ohio
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  Speaker 3: lay let her call it.
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  Speaker 2: I don't see.
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  Speaker 3: I need to go along, you know, down here.
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  Speaker 4: A car is what we need to.
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  Speaker 5: Kind of.
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  Speaker 3: A prodigy. What color was it? A burgundy Mago proteger?
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  Speaker 3: We don't get him going pay him? I got twop.
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  Speaker 1: I love that degree of detail. You know. I don't
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  Speaker 1: even know where to go first because I got such
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  Speaker 1: awesome experts, but I'm going to go first with Chris mcdonna.
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  Speaker 1: He is the director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective.
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  Speaker 1: He has his own YouTube channel, the Interview Room where
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  Speaker 1: I found him. You can find him at Coldcase Foundation
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  Speaker 1: dot org or on the Interview Room Former homicide detective.
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  Speaker 1: Three hundred ish homicide scenes under his belt. Chris mcdonna,
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  Speaker 1: don't you love the degree of detail? Hey? You know
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  Speaker 1: what send me sometimes you got to hear the best stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Can you play that one more time? Listen, my love,
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  Speaker 1: that is a lady.
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  Speaker 3: You come on dot dollar and see some guy drop
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  Speaker 3: into a red light with her car with her too,
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  Speaker 3: and then they ain't took all she got out of
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  Speaker 3: call here at Ohio and let her call it.
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  Speaker 2: I don't see.
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  Speaker 3: I need to go along, get down here.
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  Speaker 4: Eric, carry but we need to.
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  Speaker 3: Up a mag protegee.
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  Speaker 1: What color was it?
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  Speaker 3: A burgundy maga protege. We don't get him going, payim
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  Speaker 3: I got I'll.
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  Speaker 1: Call all the detail Chris McDonough. She's quote real hysterical
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  Speaker 1: and you need to call him long and get him
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  Speaker 1: down here right now. And you hear her feeding details
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  Speaker 1: in the background.
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  Speaker 5: Nancy wasn't deaf the narrative that captivated America.
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  Speaker 1: How can you be so calm? You know?
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  Speaker 5: We just get used to it.
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  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, right somebody still get very angry, very angry. And
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  Speaker 1: I know the end of this story. But the detail.
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  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen person? They will spin you a
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  Speaker 1: yarn with such incredibly rich detail.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and typically that detail, if it's that minute show
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  Speaker 5: and that amount is typically a sign of deception and
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  Speaker 5: She kicked it off right.
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  Speaker 6: From that nine one one call from the beginning, the beginning,
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  Speaker 6: running up to somebody's house talking about some guy jumps
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  Speaker 6: out and you know, this occurs in rural Union County,
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  Speaker 6: South Carolina, near the John D.
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  Speaker 1: Long Lake. And you know, hold on, Chris McDonald, where
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  Speaker 1: do you live, Chris.
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  Speaker 5: Well, right now, I'm in Arizona, but I lived in
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  Speaker 5: South Carolina right there in Mount Pleasure.
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  Speaker 1: You're very familiar with this area. Let me go to
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  Speaker 1: another country boy like this country girl right here. Just
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  Speaker 1: got Morgan joining me, although he's gotten pretty high flute.
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  Speaker 1: Professor Forensis Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate,
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  Speaker 1: still waiting on an the book to come out. Host
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  Speaker 1: of Bodybag's hit podcast, this area, Chris McDonough has lived
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  Speaker 1: in South Carolina. I've gone to this scene before. It's
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  Speaker 1: extremely rural, and I'm supposed to believe a guy jumps
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  Speaker 1: out of what from behind a stop sign and hijacks
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  Speaker 1: her car and takes off with the children clearly in
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  Speaker 1: the back seat, two little boys.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, what are the odds that you're going to have
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  Speaker 7: somebody that wants to do this kind of harm? Whether
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  Speaker 7: or not they had an awareness that, you know, these
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  Speaker 7: poor little angels were buckled down in those back seats.
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  Speaker 7: The fact that you would have this kind of aggressive
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  Speaker 7: behavior in that location where she was specifically targeted as
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  Speaker 7: an investigator, I'm certainly going to raise an eyebrow and
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  Speaker 7: I'm going to take a long look at what she
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  Speaker 7: has to say, because, as you and I both know, Nancy,
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  Speaker 7: the line share, the line share of home sides that
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  Speaker 7: we talked about have some a familial connection that means
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  Speaker 7: that you're around intimates those individuals that are most important.
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  Speaker 7: So you're going to tell me the random stranger just
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  Speaker 7: came up and kidnapped these babies and run off with
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  Speaker 7: them and left her standing on the side of the
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  Speaker 7: road weeping.
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  Speaker 1: Now, did you hear what he just did? Chris McDonagh,
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  Speaker 1: I am going along with everything he says, but he's
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  Speaker 1: a wily one. You got to really watching watch what
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  Speaker 1: Joe Scott says. I agree with the whole rural aspect,
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  Speaker 1: but did you hear him say if the unknown male
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  Speaker 1: assailant noticed the children in the back seat. I'm looking
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  Speaker 1: right now at a ninety four Mazda Protege. You can
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  Speaker 1: see straight into the back seat from every angle of
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  Speaker 1: the car. It's not like you know, you see those
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  Speaker 1: black su these with tended windows, you can't see what's
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  Speaker 1: going on in there. No, you can see exactly what's
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  Speaker 1: going on in the back seat. And I'm looking at
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  Speaker 1: a shot from the distance, I can see through the
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  Speaker 1: back window, through the back dash, and through the other
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  Speaker 1: side of the car. Whoever took the car could definitely
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  Speaker 1: see that children were strapped into car seats in the
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  Speaker 1: back seat. I mean, okay, you know what, Let's take
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  Speaker 1: a listen to the nine one one call.
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  Speaker 4: Listen Union one of us one of five gohad it
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  Speaker 4: was a black male driving a bird and Rob the
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  Speaker 4: jag affirmited one of fine.
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  Speaker 3: They had two jeweled with it was one I find.
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  Speaker 4: For one understood these were small children. These are her children,
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  Speaker 4: and she jumped out of the car and he took
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  Speaker 4: the car with the children and he headed toy Chestra
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  Speaker 4: one hundred hat or the victory both quick gripla family.
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  Speaker 4: When I gathered by the call, they are not this
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  Speaker 4: is a stranger that had jumped in the lady's car
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  Speaker 4: at a red light and she jumped out Ingle.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, really, Tara and I'm leading up to what
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  Speaker 1: Susan Smith is doing right now, and let me tell
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  Speaker 1: you that involves six different men. That said Tara Malick
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  Speaker 1: joining me out of Boise, Idaho co owner Smith and Malik,
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  Speaker 1: former state and federal prosecutor. Tara once again blame the
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  Speaker 1: black man. I remember when this happened. I was trying
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  Speaker 1: a case and I looked over at my friend, my colleague,
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  Speaker 1: who went on to be a judge, I might add,
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  Speaker 1: and I went, Herman, have you seen the composite of
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  Speaker 1: the guy that Susan Smith described? Yeah, I know what
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  Speaker 1: you're going to say, Yeah, it looks just like you.
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  Speaker 1: It looked just like Herman Sloan, my trial partner who
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  Speaker 1: had come into court to bail me out of some sling.
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  Speaker 1: I got in with a judge with some appellate law
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  Speaker 1: trying to suggest that I was right and whatever I did.
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  Speaker 1: But he went, yeah, I've heard I looked just like this,
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  Speaker 1: Susan Smith burke, and he did. I mean, think about it, Tara,
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  Speaker 1: an innocent person could have been arrested and probably tried
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  Speaker 1: and convicted based on her fake composite and all of
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  Speaker 1: her lies. Like my Herman, one of my best friends,
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  Speaker 1: in the DA's office.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 8: Absolutely, I mean, the crime itself was atrocious and horrific
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  Speaker 8: and terrible.
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  Speaker 1: And then and then, you.
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  Speaker 8: Know, to give this false profile of someone else who
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  Speaker 8: may have done it, wasting resources, law enforcement resources, wasting
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  Speaker 8: everybody's time, but also, like you said, putting somebody else
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  Speaker 8: potentially in jeopardy of being picked up for It's just
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  Speaker 8: mind boggling that she would go down this road.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I've dealt with the sod defense many times.
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  Speaker 1: I nam knew that some other d did it.
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  Speaker 9: So d D.
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  Speaker 1: Here she goes, some other dude did it, and listen
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  Speaker 1: to her. Listen.
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  Speaker 9: I would like us to stay to whoever has my children,
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  Speaker 9: that they please may please bring.
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  Speaker 1: Them home.
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  Speaker 9: To us where they belong.
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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days, Susan
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  Speaker 1: Smith makes headlines again. Look, lady, you murdered your two boys.
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  Speaker 1: Go away after one fiasco after the next behind bars.
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  Speaker 1: Now this her ex husband David describes. After the murders,
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  Speaker 1: she plunks down and just says, sorry, that's it. That's
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  Speaker 1: the whole thing. Susan Smith tried to in their murders
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  Speaker 1: on an unknown unidentified black mail doctor Bethany Marshall joining
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  Speaker 1: says she's a renounced psychoanalyst at Doctorbethany Marshall dot com.
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  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, she now has a recurring
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  Speaker 1: role in Paris in Love season two. That said, Doctor Bethany,
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  Speaker 1: I don't get it. We've got men sexting and texting
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  Speaker 1: and writing and sending money and love letters to Susan
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  Speaker 1: Smith when she is a ballfaced liar that car children
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  Speaker 1: in the worst way, letting her car, her Burgundy protege
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  Speaker 1: go down a ramp with the two little boys alive,
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  Speaker 1: strapped in the back seat. Why I don't get it.
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  Speaker 1: Why would men want to be with this woman, send
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  Speaker 1: her money and sex text with her? But did you
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  Speaker 1: hear her? Lie? Do you remember when that happened? Crying
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  Speaker 1: and the snotting and all that happening. And I want
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  Speaker 1: to say, you ever have my children? They please please
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  Speaker 1: bring them home to us where they belong, knowing full
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  Speaker 1: well they drowned strapped in their car seats.
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  Speaker 10: Well show how immature she is at the most basic level.
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  Speaker 1: That the most you could say she's immature. She murdered
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  Speaker 1: two little boys.
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  Speaker 10: We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond the fact
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  Speaker 10: that she's a sociopath. What additional factors are there that
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  Speaker 10: would lead to this? And one is an over attachment
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  Speaker 10: to men. She loves that feeling of falling in love,
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  Speaker 10: the feeling you have.
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  Speaker 1: The first six Now are you linking this to double murder?
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  Speaker 1: Why this woman did not get the death penalty? I
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  Speaker 1: do not know. And now there's six guys trying to
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  Speaker 1: have sex with her.
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  Speaker 10: Really ill, But really it's really a pathological attachment to men,
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  Speaker 10: like being in.
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  Speaker 1: A barrel with a rattlesnake. Who was that?
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  Speaker 10: Well, apparently they do. And you know, women who can't fantasize,
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  Speaker 10: who kill their children often have some really First of all,
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  Speaker 10: they usually what we call cluster be.
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  Speaker 1: That or not I really have some sexy measure going
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  Speaker 1: on because I'm totally cutting your mind.
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  Speaker 10: Okay, So their cluster bee, which means they have three
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  Speaker 10: different disorders sociopathy, bipolar, and borderline. Often they have a
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  Speaker 10: very pathological attachment to men. Either they kill the children
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  Speaker 10: to get back at a love object, like I'm going
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  Speaker 10: to kill our children because I'm mad at you. It's
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  Speaker 10: hard to describe this without really sounding like it's trite,
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  Speaker 10: but it's These are the underpinnings of what these women do.
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  Speaker 10: So it's either I'm going to kill the children to
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  Speaker 10: get back at you, or I'm going to kill the children.
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  Speaker 10: But they found a new guy, and I don't want
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  Speaker 10: the children to be in the way.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting that you said that. Interesting, But I also want
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  Speaker 1: you to hear the level of detail that she weaves
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  Speaker 1: into her big fat lie about her two murdered little boys.
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  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. I'm more excruciating death than being
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  Speaker 1: strapped in a car, can't get out. The car goes
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  Speaker 1: underwater a muddy lake, and you're in the car screaming
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  Speaker 1: for mommy as that car fills up with water till
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  Speaker 1: you drown. Listen to our cut four crime online.
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  Speaker 11: On the night of October twenty fifth, Susan Smith knocks
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  Speaker 11: on the door of a house near John D. Long Lake.
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  Speaker 11: She's hysterical when the man answers the door and tells
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  Speaker 11: him to call the police. A black man just carjacked
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  Speaker 11: her at a red light. He had a gun and
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  Speaker 11: she jumped out of the car, but her two boys,
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  Speaker 11: three year old Michael and fourteen month old Out are
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  Speaker 11: still in the car. Police begins searching immediately, and the
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  Speaker 11: nation's media converges on Union, South Carolina for eight days.
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  Speaker 11: Susan Smith tells an ever changing story of the carjacking,
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  Speaker 11: and friends get irritated when she keeps asking if Tom
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  Speaker 11: Findley has reached out to see her. Friends wonder why
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  Speaker 11: she would care about Findley when her two children are missing.
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  Speaker 11: On day nine of intense media pressure, Susan Smith meets
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  Speaker 11: with Union County Sheriff Howard Wells, and Wells meets with
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  Speaker 11: the press.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, note to sell who is Tom Finley? But there's more.
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  Speaker 1: There's more. Listen.
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  Speaker 11: Susan Smith has carried the line as far as she can.
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  Speaker 11: When she finally admits what she's done, there never was
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  Speaker 11: a black man with a gun that stole her car
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  Speaker 11: with her kids in the back. She now says she
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  Speaker 11: went out for a drive with her sons buckled into
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  Speaker 11: their car seats in the back. Feeling desperate, alone and suicidal.
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  Speaker 11: She now says she drove to John D. Long Lake
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  Speaker 11: and planned to roll the car into the lake. Smith
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  Speaker 11: puts the car in neutral, but instead of going into
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  Speaker 11: the lake with the car and the boys, she jumps
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  Speaker 11: out and watches the car singing. Based on her directions
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  Speaker 11: for where the car should be Scuba divers locate the
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  Speaker 11: vehicle with the boys in the back still buckled into
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  Speaker 11: their seats.
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  Speaker 1: Just let that so kim for just one moment, claiming,
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  Speaker 1: you know, why is it Chrismindana that all these people
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  Speaker 1: that want to commit suicide end up killing their children
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  Speaker 1: or their family or somebody else they miraculously live.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, just a horrific thought in of itself, right,
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  Speaker 5: Nancy Amy Knight. I actually drove the entire route that
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  Speaker 5: Susan Smith took that day. There were ample opportunities for
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  Speaker 5: her to change her mind and turn around. I mean
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  Speaker 5: there were stop signs, they were you know, through residential neighborhoods.
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  Speaker 5: And to think that she was saying to the public,
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  Speaker 5: you know, or to the police when she initially confessed, well,
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  Speaker 5: you know, I thought about committing suicide, but I couldn't
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  Speaker 5: do it, et cetera. So I jumped out. You know,
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  Speaker 5: when you go to that boat ramp where these poor
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  Speaker 5: little babies are strapped in those backseats and that car
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  Speaker 5: is going down that ramp, I would submit to you
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  Speaker 5: she had gotten out of that car almost immediately and
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  Speaker 5: let that car go to your point. A couple of
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  Speaker 5: minutes ago, and as that water started to fill that vehicle.
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  Speaker 5: Can you imagine the horror that these children were experiencing
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  Speaker 5: and the mother standing there as that vehicle started to sink.
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  Speaker 5: It took about six I think between six to fifteen
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  Speaker 5: seconds for that vehicle to hit the water and within
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  Speaker 5: a minute it was submerged.
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  Speaker 10: Ynthea just shows how cold blooded she is. She could
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  Speaker 10: stand on the shore look at the car submerged and
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  Speaker 10: knowing that her babies were drowning. It really gives you
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  Speaker 10: insight into how detached and just cold blooded she is.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, who is this woman? Take a list an hour
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  Speaker 1: cut three from crime online dot Com.
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  Speaker 11: After high school, she began dating David Smith. Soon there's
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  Speaker 11: a baby on the way and the pair decided to
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  Speaker 11: get married. Ultimately, they have two boys, Michael Daniel and
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  Speaker 11: Alexander Tyler, but the children don't keep the marriage together.
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  Speaker 11: The Smith separate several times. During one of these separations,
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  Speaker 11: Susan Smith begins dating Tom Finley, the single son of
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  Speaker 11: a wealthy mill owner.
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  Speaker 1: Ahh, so that is who Tom Finley is. Okay, Tarrot Mallick,
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  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us from our own law from
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  Speaker 1: Smith and Mallet, would that be motive she wants to
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  Speaker 1: be with this rich guy.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, I think, you know, She's painted in different ways
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  Speaker 8: During the trial itself, and there was some conflicting testimony.
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  Speaker 8: One of the theories of the case that was put
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  Speaker 8: on and suspected was that she wanted to.
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  Speaker 1: Be with Thomas Finley.
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  Speaker 8: Finley didn't like the fact that, you know, she had
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  Speaker 8: two kids in an oak way or in an attent
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  Speaker 8: to get back together with Finley, who she was having
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  Speaker 8: an affair with, you know, she drowned her two boys.
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  Speaker 8: The other testimony that was presented during the trial was that,
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  Speaker 8: you know, she was someone who was an abused child,
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  Speaker 8: she had had a secret affair with her stepfather, she
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  Speaker 8: was frightened of her husband, you know, And so I
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  Speaker 8: think those details this jury ended up grappling with. And
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  Speaker 8: it's the case that should have been a death penalty case,
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  Speaker 8: but it's unfortunately not.
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  Speaker 1: Here the ex husband of Susan Smith, the South Carolina
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  Speaker 1: woman who drowned her two sons in a lake back
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  Speaker 1: in October nineteen ninety four, reveals what the ex wife
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  Speaker 1: said to him just after she killed their sons. She
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  Speaker 1: plucks down and he says, quote casually, like you and
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  Speaker 1: I sitting here says sorry, and that's about as far
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  Speaker 1: as it went. That's revealing the degree of remorse or
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  Speaker 1: lack thereof at the time. Susan Smith. What a saga,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true? Dave Mack joining us from crime online
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: dot Com that Finley broke it off with her claimbing
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: he did not want an instant family.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: He did, and Nancy, more to the point, are more
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: than just saying I don't want kids. There were other
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: things he stated in there about her and their relationship.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: He also cited their different upbringings and that that was
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: a big stumbling block. Another one the way Susan Smith
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: acted and flirted with other men. He didn't like that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: So he mentioned three basic things that he really didn't
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: want an instant family. But these other two things were
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: mentioned as well, And one was her own behavior of
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: hitting on other men.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: But she dismisses that.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: In her thought process, blames it all on the kids
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and thinks she's been getting back if she just get
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: rid of that. She doesn't address the fact that she
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: hits on men all the time.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: So let me understand something, Dave Mack. She met Finley,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the son of the rich guy, when she and her
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: husband were what divorce separated? What separated?
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  Speaker 2: They actually when they were married, they had several full
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: on separations where they were not living together, we're dating
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: other people. And yet they would then get back together,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and it was on and off for I think, I
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: mean after they had the last time, he was fourteen
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: months old. Well, this happened, so it was an ongoing
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: process in their relationship that breaking out getting back together.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Let me go back to doctor Bethany Marshall, what do
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you make of this? It was always presented that Finley
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: broke up with her because he didn't want an instant family,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: But according to the letter he sent her before she
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: murdered her to little boys, it was a lot more
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: than that.
• 21:52
  Speaker 10: He's probably minimizing it because now he has the scrutiny
• 21:55
  Speaker 10: of the country and the court and saying, well, I
• 21:57
  Speaker 10: didn't really want her anyway, but just partially I think
• 22:00
  Speaker 10: a half truth in that maybe he wasn't ready for
• 22:02
  Speaker 10: a family and children and he was contemplating that. And
• 22:06
  Speaker 10: I think Susan Smith was the kind of woman who
• 22:09
  Speaker 10: would just ignore the fact that he didn't want to
• 22:11
  Speaker 10: be with her. She would think, oh, you know, I'll
• 22:13
  Speaker 10: buy any dress. Oh, I'll go shopping.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Oh I'll buy some listings.
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  Speaker 10: I'll wear a low cut dress. Oh, I'll just kill
• 22:19
  Speaker 10: my children. I mean she would just throw everything at
• 22:22
  Speaker 10: it to get him back. So I think she was
• 22:25
  Speaker 10: ambivalent about her That may have even incentivized her to
• 22:29
  Speaker 10: kill her children.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, I obviously need to reword my question. There were
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: other behaviors he found disturbing which led to his decision
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to break it off with her. Not only that he
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: did not want an instant family, but he did not
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: like the way she acted promiscuously with other guys. He
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: didn't want that.
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  Speaker 10: I think some women relate primarily to men because they
• 22:56
  Speaker 10: feel they can seduce them, and I think this was
• 22:59
  Speaker 10: probably her Oh that the minute she met a man,
• 23:01
  Speaker 10: she would be flicacious, she would be overly sexualized, she
• 23:05
  Speaker 10: would try to attract them. She probably did that all
• 23:09
  Speaker 10: the time because this is a way of feeling important,
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  Speaker 10: like she's a real person in the real world, and
• 23:15
  Speaker 10: she doesn't really have to relate to the men. If
• 23:18
  Speaker 10: it's sexual in an instant then they never become real
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  Speaker 10: people to her. They're all just objects love objects who
• 23:26
  Speaker 10: flatter her.
• 23:26
  Speaker 11: Listen to our cut for Susan Smith is planning a
• 23:29
  Speaker 11: future with the best catch in the county when she
• 23:31
  Speaker 11: gets a Dear John letter from Dear Tom. He explains
• 23:35
  Speaker 11: he doesn't think the relationship will work because of the
• 23:38
  Speaker 11: difference in their upbringing, the way she acts towards other men,
• 23:41
  Speaker 11: and he doesn't want an instant family. He doesn't want
• 23:44
  Speaker 11: children right now. Susan dismisses her upbringing or her behavior
• 23:48
  Speaker 11: towards other men as possible deal breakers in the relationship,
• 23:51
  Speaker 11: and the only thing she sees is Tom Finley doesn't
• 23:54
  Speaker 11: want children, say she.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Ignores everything except the children part of the plant, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: then suddenly, poof, they're gone. In the last days, Susan
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Smith back in the news, apparently having a romantic relationship
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: with at least six men behind bars. Okay, what does
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that mean? Well, listen to our cut ten.
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  Speaker 11: A tabloid news report claiming Susan Smith had been beaten
• 24:23
  Speaker 11: by guards at a prison in South Carolina gave birth
• 24:26
  Speaker 11: to an investigation into the matter. While there was no
• 24:28
  Speaker 11: proof she had been beaten, Smith told prison investigators that
• 24:32
  Speaker 11: she had four sexual encounters. Lieutenant Houston Cagle, a supervisor
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  Speaker 11: at South Carolina's Women's Correctional Institution WCI, where she's confined.
• 24:41
  Speaker 11: Cagle admitted having sex with Smith and another prisoner and
• 24:44
  Speaker 11: was charged with the offense in August of two thousand.
• 24:47
  Speaker 11: Smith was twenty eight at the time and was disciplined
• 24:49
  Speaker 11: for having sex with the guard, while fifty year old
• 24:52
  Speaker 11: Kagel pleaded guilty and spent three months in jail. In
• 24:55
  Speaker 11: two thousand and one, a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, also
• 24:58
  Speaker 11: pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith and was sentenced
• 25:01
  Speaker 11: to five years probation. It was then discovered that Susan
• 25:05
  Speaker 11: Smith engaged in sexual relations with Cagil after she tested
• 25:08
  Speaker 11: positive for an STD.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so she claims I was beaten and that spawns
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: an investigation, but it turns out she wasn't beaten. She
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: was sleeping with various prison guards. Scott Morgan remind me,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: what is it like to drown? You're the death investigator one.
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: Of the most horrible deaths that you can even begin
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: to think about. And the fact is the thing that's
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: always bothered me about this case, Nancy, is that with
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: Alex and Michael, and I think it's really important that
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: I say their names at this moment in time because
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: they are the victims. When they were strapped in those
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: little seats in the back of that Mazda, in that tight,
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: little confined place where maybe their mother had taken them
• 25:53
  Speaker 7: to McDonald's before, had taken them all over town, and
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: suddenly they're at the edge of a boat ramp and
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: they're thinking, you know, what's mama doing now? You know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: she gets out of the car, and as that car
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: is left and neutral and goes down that boat ramp
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: and begins to slowly sink beneath those dark waters out there.
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: You know, they found that car about one hundred and
• 26:14
  Speaker 7: twenty feet off of the shore. The dive team had
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: looked for it for some period of time. A car
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: was filled with water. Those kids were still strapped in
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: that back seat, and our reaction as humans, if we're
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: trying to catch our breath, is to fight. And just
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: imagine this, Nancy, they're strapped. We've all got babies in
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: our families that we've taken care of. We strapped them
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: in car seats. And you ever seen a child struggle
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: to get out of the car seat.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: They're tired of.
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: Being in it. Well, imagine that only water's creeping up
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  Speaker 7: on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth,
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: your eyes, You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming,
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: it's on fire because there's no oxygen. You can't catch
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: your breath, and you have no idea. It's panic that's
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: setting in, and it would not have been. I just
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: wanted to spell any kind of fantasy somebody might be
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: having right now that this was a sudden and a
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: quick death. It wasn't. It was torturous. It was absolutely
• 27:16
  Speaker 7: horrific what these babies went through at that moment, Tom Nancy,
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: And I'm with you. I'm still to this day just
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: befuddled why she's not sitting on death row and you know,
• 27:30
  Speaker 7: forever and ever she's getting going with her life. No
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: isn't she and those babies died, died at this monster's
• 27:37
  Speaker 7: hands out there out there in that.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Lake, knowing full well what she did, immediately running to
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a nearby home, claiming that an unknown male had jumped
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: into her car. And I guess the only red light
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: in the county. And I feel okay saying that because
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: where I grew up, we didn't even have a red light.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So out of the entire county, unknown assailant jumps into
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: her car at the one red light, takes her car
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: and murders her children. Okay, this is the woman these
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: guys want to be with. Speaking of them, there's a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: matter of Captain Alfred Rowe. Now we heard about Cagel Caagile,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a supervisor at South Carolina Women's ci Correctional Institute, and
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: what happened with him. We know that he was ultimately
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: identified because Susan Smith turned up with an std behind bars.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: But there's more. Take a listen to our cut eleven.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Does she not realize there are consequences to actions.
• 28:43
  Speaker 11: Captain Alfred Smith was one of the guards who lost
• 28:46
  Speaker 11: their careers after having sex with Susan Smith behind bars.
• 28:49
  Speaker 11: Rose says Smith is a master manipulator, telling Inside Edition
• 28:53
  Speaker 11: that Smith approached him at three in the morning, telling
• 28:55
  Speaker 11: him she thought he was the nicest officer at the
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: prison and that she was lonely. The guard says things
• 29:01
  Speaker 11: just escalated from there. Roe claims he only had sex
• 29:04
  Speaker 11: with Smith one time, but it cost him everything. He
• 29:07
  Speaker 11: was fired from the job, lost his pension, and after
• 29:10
  Speaker 11: pleading guilty to having sex with Smith, he was sentenced
• 29:13
  Speaker 11: to five years probation.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Take a listnour Cut twelve.
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: Sex isn't the only issue Susan Smith has faced in prison.
• 29:19
  Speaker 11: Twice in twenty ten and once in twenty fifteen, Susan
• 29:21
  Speaker 11: Smith was disciplined on drug charges, losing privileges for more
• 29:25
  Speaker 11: than a year. Susan Smith's drug use escalated when she
• 29:28
  Speaker 11: switched prisons from Camille Graham Correctional Center in Columbia, South Carolina,
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  Speaker 11: to Leath Correctional Institution in Greenwood, South Carolina. Former prison
• 29:36
  Speaker 11: guard Alfred Rowe, who pleaded guilty to having sex with
• 29:38
  Speaker 11: Smith at the prison, told the TV show Stellmate Secrets
• 29:41
  Speaker 11: when Smith was moved from one prison to another that
• 29:44
  Speaker 11: it was at that point where quote she could no
• 29:47
  Speaker 11: longer get the mail attention that she used as a
• 29:49
  Speaker 11: drug unquote, and instead turned to pill.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Which led to a series of drug infractions. Time Stories
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Just recently, Susan Smith tried to convince
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a pardoner and parole born how sorry she was she
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: murdered her two boys, but according to her ex husband,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: all she had to say to him was sorry, don't
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: know why I did it? Sorry, Wow, thanks mom. The
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: narrative her story that she projects is so different from reality.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Life has not passed her by. She committed double murder.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: That that's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own. Absolutely.
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: I mean, and if life has passed her by, how
• 30:43
  Speaker 8: does she characterize what she did to her son? She
• 30:47
  Speaker 8: took their life away, They didn't even have the opportunity
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: to live a life. I mean, these were really young
• 30:53
  Speaker 8: kids here. And I think you know, the pattern of
• 30:57
  Speaker 8: behavior that she's exhibited, the infractions that she's picked up
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: while she've been in prison, I mean, all of this
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: doesn't tend to show that this is someone who has
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: been rehabilitated while in prison. I mean, she's still showing
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: those signs of manipulation that she engaged in before she
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: was convicted in Census, you know, leading on the nation
• 31:20
  Speaker 8: for nine days, telling lies about what actually happened, telling
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: lies and printing fingers of people that didn't exist. So
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: this is a really deeply disturbed individual.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Chris mc dunna with me, a former homicide detective and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: host of YouTube channel The Interview Room who has investigated
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: at least three hundred homicides. You know, defendants can be
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: very very charming. Think about Scott Paterson or doctor Martin
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: McNeil who killed his wife, a beauty queen. According to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Susan Smith's family, they say, quote she seems to be happy,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and that she quote always had a messy love life.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: She's creating a fictional version of her life and people
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: are buying it. These guys, these lonely hearts, are buying
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: it and attempting to have let me just say, romantic
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: interludes with her. Chris mcdonna, have you ever met a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: charming murder defendant? Because I have absolutely Nancy.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: And what's interesting about her is we have to always
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: remember that all behavior has a purpose, and that past
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: behavior is usually an indication of future behavior. So she
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: has always throughout her entire case and through her life
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: here while in prison and even before prison, she always
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: sometimes projected the words of the day into her vocabulary.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: And if we listen real carefully to the minutia of
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: what she said in the very beginning, whoever they are,
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: please bring them home. She's talking about two suspects, but
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: she talks about one in terms of a description. And
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: now if we fast forward that to today, we have
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: six individuals men who quite frankly, I can't figure that
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: piece of a puzzle out. You know, that's for the
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: doctors to tell us what that's all about. But she
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: is utilizing that behavior still to this day, by talking
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: about money, by talking about sexual TIFFs there between the
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: two of them, and she hasn't lost a thought from this.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Leopard, you know, Joscott Morgan, maybe we just know too
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: much when it comes to murder, because when I think
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped strapped in
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to a car as it's going down a ramp and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: going underwater and seeing the water coming up on either
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: side and starting to pour in through the windshields. It
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: comes up around you and you can't get out. I mean,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: the children in this case were three and fourteen months.
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: They never had stood a chance within this environment. And
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: here here's another thing that people might not be aware of.
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: After that car dip beneath the surface of that water,
• 34:37
  Speaker 7: one other element we have to consider. And again I
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: go back to the idea that we all have had babies,
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: you know, parents, that sort of thing. I've got kids
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: and grandkids whom I love dearly. And what is it
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: the kids are afraid of? Late at night? It's darkness
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: and it would you would not have been able to
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: have seen your hand in front of your face. So
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: not only are they absent a loving mother who normally
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: you would hope would take care of them, they're they're disoriented,
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: they're running out of breath, and it's dark, Nancy, it's
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: cold and it's dark down there, and that's that goes
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: to the level of horror that they're that they're you know, experiencing.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I've got a funny feeling, as was said by Ernest
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: t Bass on Andy of Maybury, you ain't seen the last,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: ernest Ty Bass, I don't think we've seen the last
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: of Susan Smith. Good Bye friend,