Latest / UK Column Radio / Nigel Farage and the Destructive "Toryisation" of Reform UK

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Nigel Farage and the Destructive "Toryisation" of Reform UK · UK Column Radio

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to UK Column viewers and listeners.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Delighted to have very very interesting guests with me today,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: gentlemen who contacted me a couple of weeks ago as
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a result of a resignation letter. So my guest today
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is Job West and he resigned recently as the local
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: chairman or Reform and this is in the Derbyshire area
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and Joe was very kind to send me a copy
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: of his letter. And what we're going to do today
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: is have a discussion around the reasons why he's resigned
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and I've absolutely no doubt that that discussion is going
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: to lead us into a little bit more detail and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: analysis around we'll call them the opposition parties that have
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: arisen in UK, which probably UKIP is one of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: key ones. But Job, thank you, thank you very much
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: for agreeing to come and do an interview with me today.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. It's an honor to be with you.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Well, I've learnt that you've actually
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: been a follower of the UK Column for some time,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: so would you share with your audience how did you
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: find us and when was that?
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, very long time ago. Is to do with the
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: British Constitution Group and I went to see you at
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Stoke many years ago, that whole movement I was involved with.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I did think the British Constitution Group would lead the way,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: but it didn't. But then eventually he's sort of like
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: turned into the UK Column and I started following the
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: UK Column to do with that, And I've been following
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: you for years and really the level of information that
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you guys give out is the best in this country,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: without any doubt, and I do for an awful lot
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of social media, I do for an awful lot of channels,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: UK columns the best.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for those kind words, and I'll
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: just say yes, I also think that the British Constitution
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Group did a lot of extremely good work. But the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: key thing it was that it was never a party.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: It was a fairly loose group of individuals who had
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: concerns about what was then seen quite rightly as an
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: ongoing attack on the constitution and indeed system of law
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: in this country. But it wasn't a political party. And
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: UK Column gave a lot of support to that, and
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: of course we helped set up the conferences and I
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: think the biggest conference that I'll use the word we
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: because it encapsulates everybody who was working hard at that
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: ste I think the biggest audience we had for one
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of those events was over five hundred. It was about
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: five hundred and forty. That could well have been the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Stoke Conference. So important things going on there, and well,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: wonderful that you should have found us. And we are
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: still doing our best to push out information. Ladies said
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: said to me a couple of days ago. The thing
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: about the UK column News is it can be what
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: she described as an information cascade, which I thought was
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a really interesting comment. Okay, well, your letter which I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: have here was dated the tenth of February twenty twenty five,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: so obviously back in February you were feeling uncomfortable with
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: what was happening in the Reform Party and you decided
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to resign. Tell us what was happening.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: It's best for me to tell you when I joined before,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: which was in twenty twenty one. Now it's still under
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Richard Tyson those days, and Richard Tyres had come out
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: with a policy opposing vaccine passports. Now, at the time
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that was a policy I strongly agreed with. I regard
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: vaccine passports as a means to create a papers please society,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: you know, a police state, and so I thought, well,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: that's great. Somebody's standing up against vaccine, passports reform as
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: well as the Brexit thing. Obviously the Brexit thing is
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: very important to me because I was involved in UKIP
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: before that. I was involved in the Referendum Party before that,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: so leaving the European Union an essential political ambition as
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: far as I was concerned for the British people, so
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  Speaker 2: I joined Reform back in twenty twenty one. I was
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: chosen selected to stand as the Reform UK candidate for
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  Speaker 2: South Derbyshire in the twenty two for election, very proud
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  Speaker 2: to do so, and over the moon that we inflicted
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the damage that we did on the Conservative government. We
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: got rid of the Conservative government who I held in
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: utter contempt for telling us lies years after year after year.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So it was a wonderful thing. So I was over
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  Speaker 2: the moon. In June July Biker Pardon. This year I
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: got nine thousand votes, came third, but as I said,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: we managed to get rid of the sitting Conservative MP
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: in South Darpshire, a lady called Heather Wheeler, and even
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: though we replaced it with Labor I felt sure that
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the plan of the destruction of the UNI Party, which
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: was to get rid of the Conservatives first and then
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: go for labor, was on track. Wonderful September came along
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: last year and an event took place then where our
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: county organizer was fired, which was a strange thing to
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  Speaker 2: happen because she was such a good county organizer and
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: every constituency in Derbyshire really liked her. All those who
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: stood the general election who then became party chairmen of
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: their local branches really liked this lady. So that was
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: in an anomaly, and I want to point that out.
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  Speaker 2: It was a strange thing to happen because it does
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: have a bearing on why I resigned in the following February,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: and this is why I need to go back in
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  Speaker 2: time to explain to your viewers what happened that led
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: up to my resignation in February. In the beginning of February,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: before Rupert and all the rest of them, I resigned first.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Now I will go to the next issue that came up,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: which was after the firing of our county organizer, wonderful Lady.
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  Speaker 2: We then had the Richard Tice episode where Richard Tys
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: described supporters of Tommy Robinson as that lot. Okay, Now,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I want to make it clear, I'm not a Tommy
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Robinson supporter. Okay. I watched how the Tommy Robinson issue
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: broke up UKIP back in twenty eighteen. I watched it happen.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I saw how Richard brain was basically kicked out from
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: being the leader of the party even though he was
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  Speaker 2: voted in simply because he was trying to bring peace
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: between the two factions of UKIPS. So I'm not a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Tommy Robinson math But I had to respond to my
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: members in my branch complained to me that they wanted
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: to cancel their memberships because Richard Tye had described them
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: as that lot, because they had simply Tommy Robinson. So
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I got on to my members and I said, please
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  Speaker 2: don't leave us performers the only game in town. You've
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: got to stick with us. This is the only way
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: that we're going to win this country back and have
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: a sensible government. Please don't go now. One of the
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: members who had wanted to counsel his membership was a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: retired coal miner from Swaddling Code, and he said to me,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: look asked it with you, Joe, but you've got to
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: understand that all that Tommy Robinson is doing is trying
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: to defend Yeah. So he said, have you seen the
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: film that Tommy Robinson's got into trouble about, which is
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: called Silence? And I told him no, I haven't seen
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: this film. He said, well, will you watch the film
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: if I stick with you? And I SUI yes, I
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: promise I will watch the film. Before I watched the film,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I then rang up management because I wanted to know
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: what the management policy was for this. So I rang
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: up management and I said, look, I've got people wanted
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to counsel their memberships. I said, what is the party line?
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: How am I supposed to respond? Because Richard tices me
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: this comment. So they turned around and they said to
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: me and let them go. Don't bother with them, just
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: let them go. Zia has said that they're not wanted
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and that they're doing our vetting for us. Now for me,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that stuck in my craw at the time. You know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that was something I didn't like. All I could see
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: was my old swaddling coal miner, who I knew in
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: person and who had been to branch meetings. Yeah, being
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: told that he's not wanted by some city boy, a
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Mohammadan and a Sri Lankan to boot. Yeah, he doesn't
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: want my old English coal miner to be a part
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: of his party right now. That didn't sit well, but
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I stuck with it. I just thought, Okay, we've got
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to move on for the sake of the unity of
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: the party. Will move further forward. Then the next issue
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: that comes up was to do with veting. And this
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: this may sound like it's a detail, but it's an
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: important detail. We had to vet and make applications for
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: all those who wanted to stand for county council in
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: the upcoming county council elections. And these some of these
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: applications have been put in back in August, and we
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: keep I kept on asking my regional organizer and when
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: are these vettings and these applications going to come through
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and be approved, because we want to start making plans
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: for who's going to stand in which ward and uh
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and how we're going to you know, start to manage
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  Speaker 2: our campaign collectively. Okay, we're fobbed off all the time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: All the time, we're fobbed off with oh yeah, it'll
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: be next week or it'll be a couple of weeks time.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. It's all in it's all in hand.
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  Speaker 2: Christmas comes in goes and we still don't have these
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: applications or these vettings approved. Okay, now what your viewer
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: is to just put part that to one side, because
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: it is important. Now the new year comes, we're still nonetherwiser.
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  Speaker 2: We've got obviously elections coming up in May and only
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: months to prepare, and nobody knows who's going to stand
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: in which wards and who's going to do what. I'm
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: getting very frustrated and I'm getting quite angry. The East
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Midlands Reform UK conference comes up in Leicester. I don't go.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I've got better things to do. Yeah, But at that conference,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: a young man called Andrew Southwall, who had stood in
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the general election in Dudley, was replaced in the conference
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: without him even knowing about it, by Marco Longi, who
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: was the sitting Conservative end who had stood against reform
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: in the general election, had been replaced with by Labor.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm fuming. I'm thinking, well, that's wrong. Why have
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  Speaker 2: they done that to that young man. He's putting all
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: the hard jards, he's done all the hard work and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: they've gone and parachuted in the very conservative who they
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: tried to remove. Surely this is not part of the plan.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Surely we're trying to remove these conservatives, get rid of
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: these people because they're obviously the ones that's ruined the country.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That happens on the third of January. The big bombshell
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: for me comes next the following week, on the tenth
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: of January, the whole of Amber Valley Reform UK leadership resign.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Right now, I'd heard undercurrents about this, but they've kept
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: it secret to themselves until the moment when they'd all resigned.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: The reason why they resigned is because their leader, Alex Stevenson,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: had been suspended on December the fifteenth, unbeknownst to the
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: rest of us. Yeah, and he himself hadn't found out
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: to December the twenty ninth by Reform UK and by ZEA. Yeah. Now,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the thing about Amber Valley that were all your viewers
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: to bear in minders, they are the best Reform UK
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: branch in Derbyshire, without shadow of the doubt, really enthusiastic,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: did loads of work. They had parish councilors, they had
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: town councilors, they had county councilors, They had the whole
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: shooting match going on. They even used to do litter
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: picking drives. They were really well liked in the local
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: community in a way that none of the other constituencies
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: had been able to match. They were the best in
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, they could have even been the best
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: in the East Midlands, but they were certainly the best
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: branch in Derbyshire. They were targeted by the management deliberately
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and then wiped out. Now that's a very important thing
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: that I want your viewers to understand, is that the
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: best branch in Derbyshire was deliberately targeted to be wiped out,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: to be decimated, yeah, to have its leadership removed. And
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I want you to understand that because I believe that
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: that is the intention for reform as a whole. The
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: intention is to remove all the real reformers, all the
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: best people in the party, you know, all the real
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: activists who've been with it for years. Yeah, and replace
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: them with either Tories, Lib DEM's labor. They don't care, Yeah,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: just so long as you're somebody who's really in it
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: just for the political process rather than for the ideology
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of saving the country. They want professional politicians, which is
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: why in my letter, which now I wrote in the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: beginning of February, after giving due consideration all these things
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: that are gone on, yeah, and speaking to other people
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: about the matter, I did give it plenty of council
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: before I wrote this letter. I wrote my letter to
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: here and I said, basically, your professionalization of the party
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: is essentially the toyization of the party. That's what your
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: intention is. Your intention is to remove all the real reformers,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: all the most dedicated and ideological of activists, and replace
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: them with party men, with placement, with people who are
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: only in politics simply to feather their own nest. You know,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the typical politician types, people who think, well, I'm in
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the local council. That means that, you know, I'm on
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the inside. I can get certain perks as it was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: to being a councilor as well as the prestige. Those
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: kind of people, the very kind of people that make
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: politics in this country so bad and so corrupt. Yeah,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and that's what this man's the use was going about
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: making sure that he was doing He was going to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: put people in all of his branches wherever he could,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: who weren't idealogues who weren't true believers. He wanted people
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: who were in it just for their own advantage. Job.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for giving us that introduction, and
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I think it is a key introduction. I think we
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: can tennel audience because for me it was very significant
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that when you kindly email through your letter of resignation
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and I read it, and then we had a chat
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: on the telephone. And one of the things that I
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: said at the beginning of that conversation is, before you
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: tell me your side of the story, let me tell
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you a few things that I experienced in UKIP and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I can say to the audience. I was involved with
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: UKIP back in the very early days, so I think
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it was about two thousand and two or soon after.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Roger Napman was the leader at that stage that had
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: already been strife. And who was the other gentleman need
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: my notes here, Kilroy Silk. He disappeared off and tried
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to form a new party called Veritas. But I initially
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: had been looking myself for a party that was going
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to make proper change and fight back against what I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: saw as an organized destruction of the country, and UKIP
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: was the direction that I went into, and what I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: then discovered was a series of events that happened such
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that when I read your resignation letter, I was thinking,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: my goodness, this is like ticking off a template. So
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: that's me setting the little a little bit of the scene,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and I'll talk more about my own experiences. But let's
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: come back onto your resignation letter itself, because it's a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: pretty strong letter. I don't know whether you've got a
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: copy in front of you.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I haven't. You have you lead the way.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, because we can more or less break
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: it up into blocks. But you say in your second
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: sentence that you don't have confidence in Nigel Frage as
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Leader of Reform or in the manage in your management
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: of the party. In there you're talking about the party
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: chairman sea Yusef, and then you talk about why you
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: went on to become a candidate in South Harbship and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you wanted to help destroy the unit party system, and
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's an extremely accurate description of what we're
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: up against. And you were very pleased about the defeat
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of the Conservatives, which you just mentioned. You say labor
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: was obviously going to be the next target, and then
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you'd had to completely reconsider things. And the first thing
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: you talk about is the fact that the party was
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: not democratic and the inferences. Although improvements to the democracy
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in the party had been promised, these hadn't materialized. So
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: if I just give you that as the first chunk,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: as I've picked it up, what's your response. What was
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: so bad in the party that you were having to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: specifically comment on the lack of democracy?
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: That goes back to the September conference of the ALEC.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Nigel had a vote at the conference for a constitution.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: If you actually look at the constitution, it means that
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: only really the board, who Nigel will at a point
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: can then say that Nigel can be challenged, okay, so
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: that there is no system by which anybody who was
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: the leader, not just Nigel Franche, but anybody who was
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: the leader could be challenged or removed by the membership. Now, also,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: my branch members made this point. I didn't notice time
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: that they said, why is it that only the attendees
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: institution published beforehand? Yeah, so that everybody could have a
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: look at it and discuss it, you know, so it
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: could be debated. It was dropped in there at the
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: conference and only the attendees of the conference could vote,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: not the membership as a whole right. So even though
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: this constitution has been adopted, it's only been adopted by
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: a small minority of the membership. For when you're involved
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: with you, you sort of things are brought about by
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: people above you in the management system, so you have
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to take them on board. In retrospect, I realize that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: ben Habib was right. Ben Habib has made the point
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: since that he wanted Nigel to democratize the party. As
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, he even even joined because he told
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Richardies that the party needed to be a more democratic
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: party because that way it would represent people better.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: They may just break in here, just clarify for the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: audience ben Habib was deputy was a dual deputy leader
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: for reform. You will know better than I do, but
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I think you need to clarify.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: His position is deputy chair deputy leader, basically the second
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: in command of Richard Tize until Nigel provide come back
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: on a third of Germ out of nowhere after saying
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to get involved. When the September
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: conference constitution was voted on by the attendees only Yeah, now,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: this constitution made clear that only a board, a board
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: that would be appointed by Nigel Farage, could allow a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: challenge to Nigel varrag as the leader of the party.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So it's essentially meant that only Nigel's appointees and his
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: friends were going to be the ones who were allowed
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: to say that Nigel could be challenged as the leader
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: of the party. Well, that's just that means his position
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: is unassailable. Yeah, in all practicality he cannot be challenged.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: That's no good, that's not democratic, that's not the way
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: any party should be run. So in hindsight, Ben Habeeb,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: who was the party chair, yeah, who was also deputy leader,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: who had got involved with reforms on the proviso when
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: talking to Richard Tice that they would democratize the party.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: As soon as the general election was over, Ben was
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: given the voote and basically replaced by Zia Yusuf. Now,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: at the time, I think simply thought that that was
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: a reshuffle. Yeah, I didn't take any that much notice
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: of it. I thought it was a reshuffle simply because
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Ben Habibe had not won his seat in Wellingborough. Looking
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: back at it now I see that Ben Habibe's removal
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: was entirely due to his demand that he'd made quite
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: some time that the party be democratized, and Nigel was
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: not going to have that. Niger didn't want the party democratized.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: He wanted it as his five done for him to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: rule as he pleased, with zia Usaf being is you know,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: if Nigel Farag was King John and then Zia Yusuf
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: is his sheriff of Nottingham.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: This is fascinating because it's a description which I'm going
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to say to the audience side, I can understand from
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: what I've witnessed happening around UKIP and Nigel's position. So
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the democracy side, you see Ben Habib go. There was
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: another gentleman with it, was it David Ball?
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: David Ball. David wasn't pushing for the democratization in the
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: same way as Ben with Ben was the big man
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: when it came to pushing for democratization, and I think
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: that's why he was flicked off. He was got rid
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: of because he posed too much of a problem because
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: he is very popular amongst the activists and the membership.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: He really is. Yeah, and that's still to this as
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: a matter of fact, he's more popular now with everything
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: that's happened with the group at low situation. Yeah, it's
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Ben was the Canarian the coal mine way back when. Yeah,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: so we're talking back in June. Back in July, it
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: was Ben who was saying that we were going to
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: have problems.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Right, okay. And later on in well, later in the letter,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: you of course mentioned what had happened in Derbyshire and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you've really given some an overview of that in your introduction.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: But in the remainder of your letter you were constantly
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: referring to other people who had concerns in the party
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and were speaking out. And let me see down here
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: you talk about the resignation of Howard Cox at one stage.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: For exactly the same issues. Yeah, for Howard Cox, the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: problem was not being able to mention Tommy Robinson. Now,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: as I said before, I'm not trouby Robinson, Matt, but
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I can see why for a great many people who
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: vote perform, Tommy Robinson is somebody to have a great
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: deal of sympathy for and who they support, and for
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Howard Cox not to be able to mention Tommy Robinson
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: is well, that's far too controlling. You know, when you
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: have a real democratic party, you need a lot of
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: robust ideas. Essentially, politics is about the exchange of ideas
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and ideas being put into the marketplace and everybody talking
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: about them. That's how you find out which is the
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: best idea and to be able to turn around to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: somebody who's a leading light in your party, and Howard
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Cox is because don't forget that fair fuel campaign that
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: he runs means that he has an awful lot of
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: popularity even before he stepped into Reform. So you've got
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: this leading light, this man who's well known, this man
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: who's not being too provocative. All he's saying is what's
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: happening to Tommy Robinson. Yeah, and people should look into it. Now.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: For Reform to then turn around and say, whoa, we're
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: getting rid of you. We don't want you to talk
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: about that. It's time that you went That to me
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: is far too controlling, especially for a party that's supposed
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: to be about free speech. And that's what Reform, that's
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: one of the things that Reform stands on is that
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: we want free speech. We don't want to be told
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: what we can say and what we can't say. Yeah,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: And for them to turn around to our own leading
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: lights and say, well, do you know what. We don't
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: like what you're saying, so it's time for you to
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: go that's wrong.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Let's just end because there's a couple of critical, well
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: very short paragraphs right at the end you say, I'll
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: read this out for you. It's clear to me that
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: your drive for the professionalization of reform is actually a
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: drive for toryization of reform. And you you end here
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: by saying I did not join Reform UK to continue
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: the treacherous government of a parasitic ruling class who nested
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: in London have neither loved nor loyalty to the British people,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: their customs, traditions, law or religion. I pray that you
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and you're referring there to the Chairman, that you and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Nigel Farage fail in your endeavor to mislead the British people. So, Joe,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: powerful words from you. You're not mincing your words in
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: sending this letter into the party. And do you want
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to add anything for the audience Following those statements, What.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I would say to the British people and to anybody
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: watching this, regardless of where in the world you are,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: is that I have now come to the conclusion that
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: we have, certainly in England, a class in London who
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: see it as their way of life to manage and
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: to manipulate the ordinary people. And I think that is evil.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: And I stress the word evil because it is opposed
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to everything that is good, everything that is truthful, honest,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: generous and courageous. I look at the people who run
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: this country, in the city of London, and in Whitehall
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and in Westminster, and I just see a bunch of criminals,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: liars and frankly people who are quite happy to see
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: other people die in order for them to achieve their
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: goals and their aims. And I want to stress that
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: it's not just our local as it were, England's got
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Wales Island, a way of life that's been challenged here.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: This political class, this bureaucratic and corporate parasite class, extend
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: their tentacles to places like Libya, like Syria, like Iraq,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: like Afghanistan, and now like Ukraine. They cause mass murder
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: in order to advance their program their ideology, which I
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: believe is only about power and privilege and pay. It
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: has no other ideology than that. Now, I could go
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: more metaphysical about it, but I won't. I will stick
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: to the principles that as far as I'm concerned, these
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: people who run our country, not just our country, but
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. I believe that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the anglosphere is run by people who have a Frederick
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Nietzsche ideology, which is that God is dead and there
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: is only the will to power.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I agree with everything you've said there. I certainly can't
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: disagree with anything you've said there.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Joke.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And if I think back to my early day, so
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I've mentioned, right back to the beginning of UKIP, I
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: was looking at material which was essentially describing the organized
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: breakdown of UK and one particular book it's very difficult
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: to buy now because it's very expensive, but you can
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: actually get the pdf online was Christopher's Story's book, which
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: was entitled The EU Collective Enemy of its Member States.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And in the first few pages of that book was
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a table which the footnote said that the information in
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: the table had come from a KGB defector who was
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Yuri Besmanov. People can find him on YouTube. But essentially
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the table described an attack that was to be carried
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: out on Western society, first of all, to demoralize it,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: then to destabilize it, and the final part is to
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: have total breakdown, where upon a new society would be formed.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And that was actually called a normalization process, because that
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: happened to be a term which I think originated in
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Soviet ideology. But sat with a cup of tea, I
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: went through the table and I could literally tick off
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: each thing as it was happening. The breakdown of education,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: law being made inconsistent, victimizing the victim, the military being destroyed,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the introduct of the homosexual agenda. Every single thing in
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the table you could tick off, And as a recently
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: retired military person, I thought to myself, the country is
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: clearly under attack. I regarded it as ab version. I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: didn't believe that at that stage we could pin down
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: who was ultimately behind the policies, but you can nevertheless
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: see these very destructive policies and so the words you've used.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Possibly some people listening or watching this interview might think
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: that's a bit strong, but for me this is absolutely
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the case. We've got we've got a system, we've got
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: individuals and ideology attack in UK. But as you quite
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: rightly point out, their tentacles are unleashing this unbelievably cruel
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: agenda in overseas countries and in Ukraine alone. Now we've
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: clearly got over well over a million and a half
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: casualties dead and wounded as a result of their policy.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: So that's that's really our starting point, isn't it for
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a discussion on what's been going on in UK politics.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty six, Okay, So as
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: a boy I would watch My favorite films were either
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: cowboy films or war films. So I'm brought up on
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: that ideology that we fought the Nazis and with guns
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: and tanks and warships and aeroplanes, and then it was
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: a real kinetic war. Yeah, that's what we were brought
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: up to think about, how we fought and defeated our enemies.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I now realized that the war that we are now
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: involved in, which in my view has you know, is
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: a continuation in a way of that second World. Yeah,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: it isn't involve solving tanks or aeroplanes or worship. It's
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: far more sucking. It really is about mind control and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: controlling the way that the masses see themselves and see
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: life itself. And that's what I think that we're dealing
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: with And that's why I think sometimes people don't realize
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: the way in which this management and manipulation that has
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: happened to our country has been done in such a
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: surreptitious and secret way that that they have all they
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: can see is how slowly and incrementally, in that sort
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: of like Fabian society fashion, you know, our world has
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: changed and they can't really put their finger on it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: And they because it's not tanks in the street, because
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: they don't have to take up arms and you know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you're fighting the enemy and shooting bullets. Second, they don't
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: know how to respond to it. And I mean, I'm
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: just the same I was, you know, I've my ideology
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: has changed over the years. Now I recognize the subtlety
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: with which we are being manipulated and controlled. Now it's
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: a very English way of doing it. Yeah, it's it's
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: a very advanced way of doing it. And you know,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: people shouldn't underestimate the English, you know, very clever race
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: of people. Yeah. And whereas we may have gone out
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: and used gunboats one hundred years ago, we've found different
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: ways of controlling people that don't involve gunboats and of course,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: nowadays we have this new phrase soft power. Soft power
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: is mind control. That's the top and bottom of it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And that's what we're dealing with. And that's why the
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: British people as a whole to go back into their
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: own history and look at their own traditions and their
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: own ways of life that even only maybe three or
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: four generations ago we lived that gave us this healthy
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: bedrock of life that leathers to enjoy life better. Yeah,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: we're not enjoying life at the moment. Most people aren't
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: there having to work too hard. And this has come
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: about not because the Germans crossed the channel. This has
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: come about because of an ideology that has now infected
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: ruling class and is now being passed on to the
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: rest of the people in this country, which means that
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: all of us are having to struggle in our daily
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: lives in a way that we shouldn't have to do.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: You know, to go back to say Harold Wilson back
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: in the sixties talking about the white heat of technology
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and how life was all going to be better for us,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: and how boys like me in the seventies used to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: watch tomorrow's world and think, well, won't life be great
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: because everything will be so much easier. Technology will make
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: life so much easier for us. We'll all have so
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: much more time, so much more time to enjoy ourselves.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Not the case. We all have to work so much
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: harder to get well to just to put a roof
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: over our heads, you know, And never mind about the
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: breakdown of the family. Cry keep you know, the family
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: is the joy and the ambition of all sensible men
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: and women. You know, for me to be able to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: come home and of an evening time, sit down with
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: my wife and my children and enjoy my dinner and
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: have a laugh and a joke and hear what they've
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: done today and what they think, and what they've been watching,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: and all the rest of that normal family life. That
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: is the best part of my day, and it should
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: be the best part of everybody's day throughout this country
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: and throughout the world. Family life, Your wife, your children
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: have the best things that you have. And to think
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: that we all have to work so hard and spend
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: so much time away from those people, you know, to
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: get what bricks and water, a motor car. You know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: it's go on holiday somewhere fancy. That's not the real deal.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And I think we've been taken down this We've been
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: led into this hole in the ground by a pied
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: piper ideology that has led us into darkness and we
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: don't realize that we've been led in there. And we
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: have to get back outside into the light, out of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the cabins and learn to live again. And that is
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: really the essential part, is learning that family life and
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: that other human beings are the best things in life
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and not things. And I think that's the real crux
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: of the and that's really how they've learned to control
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: us is by materialism, saying that material goods are what
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you really should be aiming for, as well as the
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: sort of like the hedonism of personal gratification through sex
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: and drugs and rock and roll. You know.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Job, You've covered a lot there, all of it pertinent,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to say we're definitely get in amongst that.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Before we do, I just just want to draw us
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: back a little bit to the fact that you've started out,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: you know, describing how you've left a political party. You've
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: been disappointed and you've left a political party. And I'm
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: very aware that there are many people out there that
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: are looking to the alternative political parties as a sort
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: of life boy to say, them from the system that
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: you describe. So people have, many people, thousands of people
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: have spent probably millions of hours trying to support parties
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: like UKIP or the Brexit Party or Reform in order
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to fight back against the political system. And I can
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: imagine that many of the people that have put time
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: into these parties are pretty sensitive. When I'll say we,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: because it is you and I we start to discuss
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: problems within these organizations because I think some people think, oh,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: my goodness, just when we start to see progress, just
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: when we start to see a fight back, then here
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: are people criticizing parties that are trying to do the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: right thing. And I think, I think we need to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: discuss this because my intention, and I'm sure it isn't yours,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: My intention in having this discussion is not to cut
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the ground out from people that have put a lot
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: of time and effort into trying to challenge the existing system.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I think the key thing which I'd like to do
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: is inform people in a way that they can see
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: who the enemy is better and how it actually can
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: attack them and manipulate things which they assume are one
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: thing but in reality it's something completely different. So if
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: we come back to your experiences of reform, you've picked
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: up pretty strongly, of course on Nigel Farage and his
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: leadership of the party, and you've also picked up very
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: strongly on the chairman as to Yousaff and I was
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: very interested when I saw a party chairman coming into
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: post who's got a professional background with the banking system,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and Goldman Sachs is part of it. I can't remember
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: who the other one, Merrill Lynch or something like that,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Merril Lynch, yes, And a person who, in coming to
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the country, I'll say, to his credit in nineteen eighty
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: goes on to be a partner in a company with
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the value of about two hundred and thirty million, and
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: when he sells it, he makes a call thirty million.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: But my brain says to me that this man cannot
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: be in touch with what life is like on the
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: ground for the average person who's having to work and
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: probably man and woman, husband and wife partners working full time.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: In order to have a house reform with Nigel Farage
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: brought in a party chairman who seems to me to
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: have been part of the very establishment that we might
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: point a finger at and say has been causing the trouble?
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's unfair if I point a finger
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: at this man and say what exactly easy?
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. But it's not just Zia
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Yusif you know, Zia used could be anybody. He was
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: put in place because he is a Goldman, Sacks, Merrill, Lynch,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: city boy. You know he's there. I have no doubt
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: that Nigel Farage didn't pick Zia Usef. Nigel Farrage was
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: told that he had to pick Zeo Usif. All right,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the powers that be that control Nigel Farage have put
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Zea Yusif into place, and a lot of branch activists
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: will say, oh, if only we could get rid of
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Zia yusif you know, everything would be all right. No,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: it won't because Nigel and Zia both work for the
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: same sort of people. And the problem we have is
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: what you'll just mentioned there about ordinary people not having
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: a say. Problem we have in our country, and it's
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: in every country, is when you get to a certain
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: level of materialistic wealth. Yeah, you're so cut off from
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: what it is to be ordinary, you know, to worry
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: about paying them movies, to worry about paying the election.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: You know, you have no idea what it is to
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: be an ordinary person, and so you know the idea
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: that the troubles of ordinary people are not that important
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: to you. You have no empathy with them. Yeah, and
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: that's what we're dealing with. Somebody likes the agusuf. He's
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: a rich kid. He doesn't know what it is not
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: to be a rich kids. He's been involved in the
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: City of London enterprises since he's been in his twenties,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: all right, So from being a young man, all he
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: knows is how to get the easy money. And it
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: is easy money, There's no two ways about it. Yeah,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: and that's what he knows.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that's that's interesting analysis. So I'm going to bring
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: in Tye at the same time. I've got some additional
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: comment about mister twice. But isn't he another one? Isn't
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: he another person that's come into the party largely it
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: would seem to me as a result of wealth.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: With Richard, you've got somebody who did carry the party
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: a lot, and it did use his own money to
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: keep that going. You know, I don't get me wrong,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to kick every every rich boy. Yeah,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to kick every public school boy and say,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm a grammar school boy, but I'm not
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: going to kick you know, I used to kick Stowe
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: boys when we used to play rugby against them. But
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to kick them just because they're public
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: school boys and they're rich kids. Right. I'm not saying
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: every one of them, Yeah, it cannot be patriotic and
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: cannot have integrity and a sound moral and ethical view
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: of life. Right, I'm not going to say that. But
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: what I am saying is when you have people who
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: are removed from the ordinary way of life, then there's
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: no two ways about it. It's going to be difficult
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: for those people to understand just how important ordinary practical
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: solutions are. You know, they can live in their ivory
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: towers because they literally do live in ivory towers where
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: you only have to go into London to see, you know,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: that's where those people live. And they don't know what
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: it is. They're not interested in what it is as
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: a matter of fact, for some of them, and unfortunately,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I think for an awful lot of people, they rather
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: not be associated with. You know, that's a bit beneath them,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: and it's a tragic thing, and for me it does
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: have a religious connection. You know, when our Lord say's
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: blessed are those who are poor in the spirit, that's
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: because those of us who are poor in spirit have
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: to call upon God, you know, under strength to carry
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: on because we don't have the power, we don't have
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: the money. When you have power and money, you don't
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: sometimes need God, you know, and that means you also
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: don't need ethics and morals because you simply have our money.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: A really fascinating comment.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: A lot there, am I moving off the subject again.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I beg your pardon.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I knew this would be an interesting discussion because in
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: having a brief conversation previously, it was just so apparent
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: there was so much to talk about. But just at
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: the moment, I just want to stay on the issue
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: of parties and party politics because I think this is
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: a very important thing to try and help wider audience
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: understand what is going on and also what we see
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that other people don't quite see. But if I go
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: back to my time in UKIP, I looked to see
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: where it was a party that was challenging what was happening,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: and for me, a lot of the poisonous political agenda
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: that was coming into the country at that time was
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: clearly coming from one place, and that was the European Union,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: and the European Union power was being promoted in UK
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: It was clearly, if it was unchecked, going to have
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: a massive impact not only on our constitution but also
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: on our system of law. We were we could become
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: a completely different country over night. And therefore, for me,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of my focus was in believing that a
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: lot of the danger was coming through the European Union
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and the only party that was standing up against that
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: was UKIP. So I got involved and in my brief
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: time with the UKIP, I did a lot of work
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I canvased, I put out leaflets, I did all sorts
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of things. But at the same time I was digging
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: into areas myself, and one of those areas was looking
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: into the political charity Common Purpose. And I'm talking to
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: you about it because a few minutes ago you were
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: talking to the audience about how you saw the psychological
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: attack on the country as being very significant. So if
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: I go back and I'm talking the early two thousands,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I've got to the point where I think I'm allowed
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: to say I was from a military background, I got
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: a certain certain amount of knowledge about intelligence analysis in
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: various areas, and I believed I was witness seeing deliberate
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: subversion within the country, and my analysis was evidence based.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I was dealing in documents, freedom of information requests, and
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: very early on I attempted to get the UK leadership
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to what I was talking about, and
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: in particular, I was looking very early on to get
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Nigel Frage to pay attention to what I was talking about,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: because I assumed that he would actually be really interested
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: when I said, look, I can demonstrate at least one
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: of the ways in which our society is being attacked.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: But to my surprise, he would never engage. I never
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: did get to sit down with Nigel Ffrage and talk
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: about what I was seeing, even though at one stage
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: I had quite a lot of connectivity in the party
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: and I was getting other quite senior people in the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: party to engage. So I'm going to say to you
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Job that at that very early stage I was fascinated
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: as to why Nigel Farrage would not engage with me
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: when I was putting factual, documentary evidence on the table
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: about how the country was being subverted. And before I
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: add a little bit more to that. Pass it back
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: to you, you know, for comment or an explanation as
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to why I might have got that response from him.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I did have a little crisis of conscience with my
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: resignation letter, and I had joined the political party, and
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: for the same reasons that you I've joined Referendum Party
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: UKIP and the Reform and that's because in myself, I
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: wanted to do something. I've always been of the opinion
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: that it's no use just shouting at the television. Yeah,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: if you want to affect change, you have to get
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: up and go and do it yourself. And that's why,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: as you say, I'm not interested in trying to cut
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: the ground from underneath people who want to be involved
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: in politics. You know, I want everybody as much, friend.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I wish more people took time to study politics and
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: to think about politics, because it is so important every
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: day life. So I'm not interested in that. I join
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: political parties because I want to affect change. I want
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: to make something happen. And then when you come up
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: against party structures and things that happen in political parties
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: that don't make sense, they don't make sense because you think, well,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: surely this is a sensible thing. I'm telling you, a
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: sensible thing. Let's go, let's follow this sensible policy. Let's
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: try and do things and support people who are being good.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: And then when you see things happening don't make sense. Yeah,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: when good people are kicked out or maligned or and
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: good policies are ignored. Yeah, when things that you should
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: be following up are are are just displaced and left
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: to one side, you know, you begin to think so well,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you think, oh, well it must be me, you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: I mean control. So you know they're part of the party,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: but you know, the leadership have got a better idea.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: The problem I have now when I wrote my resignation
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: that are in February and I had this crisis of conscience,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: is that I've come to the conclusion that it is
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: a possibility. And this is a possibility. I want everybody
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: to think about that. As soon as any political party
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: in this country begins to get traction and begins to
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: affect any kind of popularity and change, it is co
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: opted and it is controlled. Yeah, and we are all
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: being manipulated all the time through these political parties. And
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that's the worry that I now have. Those are the
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: ideas that over the last few weeks I'm beginning to
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: consider and contemplate and what is the resolution if that
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: is in fact truth? And I don't know what you
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: think about that, so you tell me what you think
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: about that position.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I agree with that that idea that actually what we've
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: got going on is some very simple in some ways
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: sophisticating other ways, control of the political system, not just
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: through the established mainstream parties Labor and Conservative, but actually
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: targeting any other party that dares show its head in
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: order to challenge what the uniparty system Conservatives, Labor are doing.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I think this is absolutely correct, and this is why,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: going back to your resignation letter, it was just uncan
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: it for me? Because I read what you talked about
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: in that resignation letter and then things came back into
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: my head. As an example, you talked about the fact
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: that when people in the Reform Party were doing good
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: work and they were making progress, they were then undermined
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: or abandoned. And what came into my head was I
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: can't remember the exact year, but it was the year
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: when UKIP had tremendous success in the local council elections
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: and in Plymouth two of the ladies that I'd got
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: to know were the key Plymouth organizers for UKIP. A
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: lady called Carol and a lady called Kate, and they
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: were so buoyed up by the fantastic local election result
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: from UKIP that they were immediately talking to the senior
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: UKIP team and saying, what do we do now, Well,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: because we've got the political system moving, people know us,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: we've had fantastic results. If you like, we've got a breakthrough,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: we need to reinforce it. We need to get the
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: activists out on the ground now benefiting from all that
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: good work and success in the local elections. And to
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: their astonishment, these local ladies were told by the senior leadership, oh,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you go away and have some time off and have
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: a rest, have a holiday. And one of them, who
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: was quite a fausty lady, Carol, she said, what are
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: you talking about. We should now be pushing as a
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: party to to you know, reinforce the breach and to
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: have even greater success. What are you talking about? We
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: should have a holiday. But nevertheless, that was the policy
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: that the senior UKIP leadership enforced that all the local
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: activists went into a black hole.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: There was no.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Further direction from the party as to what they should
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: be doing on the ground, and of course, as the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: activists were concerned, all of their hard work in the
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: elections then started to break down. It started to sort
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of dissolve because you didn't have the leadership, you didn't
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: have the direction, you didn't have the enthusiasm from the
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: senior UKIP leadership team. And that particular incident was a
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: key one for me where I thought, what we've got
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: happening here is a deliberate policy by the UKIP leadership
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: to make sure that where success was taking place, it
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: had limited effect. All that effect was dissipated. So I'll
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: pass it back to you again. But that's one of
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: the key things that came into my head when I
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: read your resignation letter.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: With reform, I think that's exactly the case. That's the
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: opinion that I've come to with reform, and I did
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: see it with UKIP. I saw it with UKIP back
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. I saw going back to the Tommy
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Robinson thing, there was Gered Batman just stood down. Jered
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Batman was trying to sort of like bring in the
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Tommy Robinson element into UKIP. There was a group within
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: UKIP who, under no circumstances what had anything to do
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: with Tommy Robinson. The election for the leadership came up
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: and Richard Brain stood for the leadership. He won with
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: fifty three percent on the first ballot, so they didn't
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: have to have a second ballot, and he stood with
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: the commitment that he would bring peace between the two factions.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: He said, if you want to support Tommy Robinson, you
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: can support Tommy Robinson. We're not going to kick you
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: out the party. But equally, yeah, I'm not going to
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: pursue Tommy Robinson to become part of the party. Yeah,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: a perfectly rational, sensible position to take, a really middle
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: of the road position for him to take. He got in,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: he was voted in. He was in for a month,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: maybe six weeks, and I watched as the nec of
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: UKIP and the chairwoman Kirsten Harriet, backed up by the
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: likes of Neil Hamilton and Ben Walker. Yeah, and a
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: lawyer that they brought in called Piers wan Shot, did
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: everything they could to make sure that Richard Brain was
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: completely frustrated in what he was trying to do, to
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: the point where he and Liz Phillips just walked away
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: from the party all together. Other Now that to me
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: not so much at the time. At the time I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: just thought, well, that's just infighting in politics. That's ridiculous.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: But now I recognize because I've seen it in reform.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I see the pattern what they try to do. I
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: think with political parties, especially like you say, UK will
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: reform smaller parties. Yeah, maybe I don't know what the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: other ones are.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Well, the British British National Party would be one.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but all these parties, I think what they what
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: they try to do is as you just described, they
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: try to they get people to a certain point and
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: then they frustrate them. They realize that frustration is a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: really good tactic to use in order to stop people
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: being able to advance. Yeah, it's that that Fabian society,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: a sort of like tactic where if they can frustrate people,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: put people off, disheartened, disheartened people, demoralize them, you know,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: so that they just chok their hands, think what's all
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: this about? You know, it's a really effective it's very again,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: it's subtle. Yeah, it doesn't take a lot of energy.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: All it takes is a little bit of few lies
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: here a bit of misdirection there. Yeah, a little bit
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: of gossip there. It's really easy to affect. Yeah, it
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't take a lot of an effort to do. But
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: you can break down and you can control people's ambitions
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: or what they want when it comes to politics and
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: how the people want to live their lives. You can
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: do that, and it's really easy. And when I think
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: about the amount of resources that the state has and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: that the ruling class have at their disposal to be
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: able to sit down and have a let's say they
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: have a meeting, and let's say they say, I know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: how are we going to control the patriotic feeling that's
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: rising in the country. You know, we've got to do
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: something to be able to manipulate and control it. So
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: there's going to be parties rise up. When those parties
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: rise up, will put our people in and they'll be
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: there to control that opposition. And this is what I've
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: come to the conclusion all political parties can be I'm
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: not saying they are, that they are open to the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: process of controlled opposition by our ruling class. And I
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: believe it is our ruling class that is the problem.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: And I genuinely think now that what ordinary people have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: to do is to turn around and think to themselves,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: do you know what if I keep on waiting for
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: the savior to come to this savior political movement to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: come and save me, Yeah, you're going to be wasting
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: your time because you didn't be waiting. Because it could
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: well be that every political party that comes along can
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: be controlled and manipulated. Yeah. So what people have to
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: do is stand on their own feet, or on their
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: own connections, their own trust, relationships with people who are local,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: im close to them. I think that is the way
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: to go. Don't bother looking up for your leadership. Look
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: to the sides, Look to your friends, look to your family.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: They're the people whom you can work together with, live
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: a better life. Try as much as you possibly can
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: to avoid relying upon government, upon the state, because I
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: truly believe that the real problem is that class of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: people who find themselves in the positions of power. I
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: am beginning to come to the conclusion those particular positions
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: in life, whether it be Westminster, Whitehall, the top of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: the civil service, whether it be the city of London
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: and commerce, they attract people who have a psychopathy, a psychopathic,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: sociopathic narcissistic ideology, and that's why we have the problems
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: that we do. And once you've got a civilization like
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: ours that has now turned its back upon its own
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Christian Protestant Reformed ethics and morals, and you have this
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: complete hedonism and will to power ideology where all that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: matters is me. Yeah, and there's no greater transcendent power
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: above me to which I am beholden. Once you create
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: that situation, which is what's happened, it's the nineteen sixties
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: in this country. Yeah, you've got a ruling class who
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: are without morals, without ethics, don't give a damn except
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: for themselves. And they are psychopaths, and they are narcissists,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: and they are sociopaths. And the problem with pyramid systems
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: is that they draw the few to the top, who
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: are the worst kind of people to rule.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Joe again, I think this analysis is very good. Are
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: we just dealing with political parties? I don't think so anymore.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: We're dealing with people who operate above and through political parties.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any doubt about this. And is
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: there an assembled malevolence at the top of the pyramid,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: without question? On my bookshelf. I'm afraid I can't remember
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: the author, but I know it was a political sorry,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: a Polish psychologist, and he wrote a book called political Pornurology,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: where ponurology is the study of evil, and his book
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: is about how bad people sort of manifest and are
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: attracted to positions of power. It was recommended to me
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: many years ago sitting over on my right hand side
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: on the bookshelf, and for me, that's a text which
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: captures a lot a lot of what you say. Now,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I would like to do something. I'm actually asking you
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: as a guest here for the UK column because I
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: have never really spoken out before about my experiences around
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: UKIP and Nigel Frage, and I know that if I've
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: mentioned Nigel Frage, you know, over the years, there's always
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: a couple of people that come back to me pretty
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: strongly and they say to me, you know, Brian, it's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: utterly disgraceful that you should attack Nigel Farrage because he's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: done this and he's done that. And so I know
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: that if I start speaking about Nigel and UKIP there
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: will be a little bit of a backlash. But if
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: you will bear with me on this and I'm very
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: happy for you to be the you know, be the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: one who holds my feet to the fire. I'd just
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: like to share with the audience a little bit more
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: about my experience. I just talked about the fact that
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: when we saw progress in Plymouth, it was squashed, and
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: of course those experiences were reflected by other people across
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: the country, because when I started to speak out and
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: when I started to ask some questions, I was contacted
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: by other UKUB activists, a lot of them moo'd been
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: with the party a long time from other parts of
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: the country and they said, the same thing is going
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: on here, Brian. And that told me that the shutdown
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: of successful activism within the party was coordinated to such
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: an extent that it was being done across the party.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: But I'll stick with the fact that in my early
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: days I was warning about subversion in the country. I
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: was warning about the political charity Common Purpose. I'd started
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to give public talk. Those public talks were always evidence documentary,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: evidence based, and I'd started to get a lot of
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: support from people who were UKIT supporters. And indeed, if
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: we just mentioned the British Constitution Group as well, when
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: we put on those big events looking at the attack
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: on the constitution and law and order in these wonderful islands.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: We had a lot of people from UKIT. They formed
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: a core support base both for the uk column and
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: the British Constitution Group. So I knew that what I
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: was talking about was of interest to the bulk of
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: the party a party membership, which is why we were
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: able to attract such huge audiences. But at no stage
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: could I get the senior UKIT team under Farage's leadership
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: to engage with what I was talking about. And indeed
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: other speakers, many of them very well qualified, particularly in
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: the constitution we're talking about. So eventually it gets to
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: the position where relations between myself and Nigel Ffrage were
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: frosty to nonexistent. But what then happened was that I
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: was banned from attending the more major events, the conferences.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: I was actually banned, and this then really started to
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: make me wonder what was going on because I've always
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: been measured in the way that I've spoken out on things.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: I've always been evidence based, but u KIP leadership under
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Nigel Farrage would not engage with a word that I said.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Off to one side at that time, the British National
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Party was still working and I got invitation. I think
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: I spoke at three BNP events and I have to
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: say I met some wonderful people. I did not meet
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: any violent extremists. I meant just people who were very
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: concerned for their country. But what fascinated me was that
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: the BMP leadership not only was keen to understand what
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: I was talking about, they without me asking, they ended
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: up promoting material where I was warning about subversion in
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: the UK and in particular the use of this political charity.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: So I'll come back to you job. That was where
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: it got to for me, that in speaking out and saying, look,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm seeing. And I came from a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: professional background, I came from a military background. Nigel Farage
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: not only would not engage with me, he banned me
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: from a ending the major UKIP events. There has to
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: be a reason for this.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: I think there is, and I think right I'm going
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: to be I'm going to go metaphysical. Right as far
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, life is a choice between good and evil. Yeah,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: and I genuinely believe that that these very people that
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I'm describing as parasites, vampires, psychopaths who run our country
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: do so because they am in a in a materialistic way,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: let's say, rather than a metaphysical way. They believe in evil.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: They believe that it's quite all right to lie. They
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: believe that it's quite all right for people to die
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: as long as their advantage is advanced. Yeah. I believe
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: that they're quite prepared to rob people, to deprive people
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: of their wealth, to take it off of them, unlawfully
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: cheat them of it. Yeah. I believe that these people
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: see that as they're right. Yeah, they're they're superior beings,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: so they have the right to do this to you. Yeah.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: And I see our political class as a materialistic, materialistic
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: manifestation of an evil that I'm afraid mankind has to
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: live with, you know, until our Lord Jesus Christ returns.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: I'm afraid we're just going to have to knuckle down
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: and deal with people like that. And this is the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: process that we're all involved in. People like you, people
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: like me, people who are watching this program. Because if
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: they're watching UK column, that means that they are aware
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: that something is going wrong and they want to find
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: out the truth. Yeah, you don't come to someone like
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: UK Column because you're happy with gb News or you're
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: happy with the BBC. Yeah, it's when you're unhappy with
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: the BBC, you're unhappy with gb News that you come
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: to UK column and places like this because you know
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: you're not being told the whole truth and you need
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: to find out the truth. There's a feeling inside of us,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: and I believe that that's a spiritual reality that exists
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: in human beings. You know, some of us do have
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: this inclination to need and desire the truth. It's just
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: something that's visceral inside of us. We've got to have it.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: We need to discover it for our own peace of mind,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: you know, for the contentment of our own souls. Unfortunately,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: there is also the opposite, are people who have no
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: interest in the truth whatsoever, who would rather lies. They
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: prefer the lie, and that, you know, the sooner the
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: people realize that it is that kind of a conflict
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: that we're dealing with. It's not just straightforward conservative labor. Yeah,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: it's not Democrat Republican. Yeah, it's not that straightforward. It
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: is far more profound. And I think for a lot
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: of people that this dawning realization that the UNI Party
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: as we describe it. There has become common parlance. Yeah,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: it's used far more now than it ever was when
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: I was young. Yeah, people are beginning to understand that
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: gets in. They realize, I mean, you've got the likes
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: of Dominic Cummings talking about how the secretaries in the
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: bureaucracy are actually deciding what the agenda of the government
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: is going to be, and the ministers are simply the
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: sales reps. Yeah, they're just presenting it to the people.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the that's the position that we've
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: got to now. And I don't know if I did.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: You want me to go more into the this. I'm
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: fascinated about this book you were telling me about the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: way by this Polish author about you know, evil, because
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: that's how I see it. I genuinely see this as
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: evil manifesting itself through a pyramid structure, you know, like
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: like Pharaoh. Yeah, and I believe that the likes of
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: us are Israel and that we are trying to escape
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: from this pyramid structure that is trying to control our lives.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: This is fundamental stuff we've got into to hear. We've
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: got to at this point tonight, I'm very happy to
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: talk about it more. Before we do, let's just put
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a line under the political side,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: because we've put some pretty hard comments into the air
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: waves about what's happening within politics. I don't think anybody
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: would challenge the idea that it doesn't matter with you
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: vote Labor or Conservative, red or blue, you are, in
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: fact voting for a uniparty system where the same policies
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: will be continued through each successive government. So there's the
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: pantomime of an election and all of the electioneering, but
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: the reality is that the individuals may change and their
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: color may change, but the centralized policies continue, and those
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: policies are clearly designed to absolutely wreck this country. And
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: just to qualify that statement, of course, we've heard the
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: phrase build back better being used, so the implication is
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: that we've got to build something better than existing. But
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: I've reported many times on two politicians, Danny Krueger was
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: one of them. The other gentleman's name has gone out
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: my head, but they were on public records saying that
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: the Conservative government at the time planned to bring in
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: what it called creative destruction in the public services in
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: order to herald in a new system of politics and
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: a new sort of nation state, and they were vilified.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: Danny Krueger was a parliamentary candidate at the time. He
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: was de selected the other MP embarrassing myself because I
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: can't remember his name, but we'll make sure it goes
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: up in the notes, he also talked about this, and
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: alongside that statement of creative destruction, I'm going to say
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: I was one of the few people warning at the
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: time about a wider government agender to use what it
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: called disruptors in order to get into the institutions and
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: the civil service, to break down a stable productive management
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: system in order to make it easier to introduce whatever
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: the new agenda was. So we have seen absolutely the
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: intent to break you know, to break down society. And
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: anybody who is trying their best to fight back against
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: this are going to say we because I think it's reasonable,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: we are saying keep going. So we are not saying
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: we're not saying stop, We're saying keep going. But what
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: if a party you're in understand what is actually happening
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: around you, because you need to understand it to be effective,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: and your key point, I want to reiterate there was
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: you said, instead of looking up for this savior to arrive,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: whether it's Nigel Farrage, or it's Donald Trump, or it's
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk, wherever he's come from, we should be looking
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: left and right to our fellow men, our fellow man
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: and woman, in order to deal with good people, whatever
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: color or background, who also see what they're fighting. I
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: just wanted to put that as a baseline in before
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: we move on to discuss some of some of these
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: more spiritual aspects. But do you think do you think
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: that's a reasonable summary.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great summary, and I would just
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: like to add one point to it about the way
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: in which the country has been broken down. We have
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: been deindustrialized in a shocking way. And it doesn't matter
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: whether it's conservatives or the Labor Party that have been
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: in government. We are being deindustrialized. The shutting down of
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: the steel plants, the shutting down of our coal, our energy.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: You only have to look at the potholes in the roads,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: take a look at our high streets, or shutting down. Yeah,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: it's just one. It's one attack against our guess, a
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: whole way of life. That the fact that our water
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: isn't any good, the fact that our food isn't any good,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: the fact that we can't even feed ourselves is just
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: one thing after another. So I did want to make
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: that point about the practicality of how it doesn't matter
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: who we vote for was getting the same problems. And
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: of course the main issue of the day is even
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: though we're voted for these conservative governments, even though we
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: vote for Brexit, we get even more mass immigration, which
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: is just compounding pressure on iView. So let's move on
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: to the sporchel now, Brian.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to say I just want to respond
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: to that one because of course immigration is such is
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: such a hot topic, and I always enjoy looking at
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: the camera and saying, if immigration is upsetting you, then
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: start to research where the migration policies came from. Where
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: is all this mass migration come from? And a man
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: that the UK column has pointed at over the years
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: is the late Peter Sutherland, Sir Peter Sutherland, who was
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: the UN's Ambassador for migration, and he's on public record
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: as effectively stating that we presumably the United Nations but
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: political masters, we need more mass migration to break down
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: the homogeneity of the name States. So what we were
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: being told very clearly was that migration was going to
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: be used as a political weapon to not just break
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: down the UK, but to break down the Western States.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: And of course that is happening. We're all suffering as
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: a result of unsustainable immigration in this country. Six hundred
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: odd thousand people came in last year according to the
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: government statistics, but those people being used as a political weapon,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: and many of them suffering themselves and their home country
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: suffering for the loss of labor and young people. I
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: felt so important to say this job because because so
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: many people want to look at migrants and they are
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: the enemy, when I think we've got to look deeper
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: as to how they got here. As I said at
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: one BMP meeting, and it was very interesting how the
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: audience reacted to me because I asked at one point
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: whether people were concerned about immigration, and they certainly said
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: they were. And then I asked the audience how did
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: they get here? And initially there was silence, and I said, well,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: you know, this is a simple question. Did they fight
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: their way ashore? And again there was a big pause,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: and then a man, a very big man, at the
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: back of the room shouted out no, we let them in,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: and he used an explete if with it as well,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: and I then said, oh you let them in. I've
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: always wanted to know who let them in, And of
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: course that produced a pretty explosive response where we started
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: to discuss who had opened the doors for this policy,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: and then I just asked another question. I said, okay,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: if you know you've been betrayed by your own members
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: of Parliament, is the enemy the people who've betrayed you,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: all the people who were invited in. And it was
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: fascinating to see how we then got a proper debate
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: going in that The BBC of course would have branded
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: it an extreme right wing audience. That's not what I
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: saw in those people. But we did get a proper
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: debate about immigration, having spelt out where the problem come
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: from in the first place.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: I agree. I mean, that's one of the tweets I've
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: just put out recently is again going back to this
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: idea that I have about a parasite class, a criminal class,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: who run this country from the city, from Whitehall and
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: from Westminster. They are the real enemies of the English people.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Is London? Yeah, that's the problem. If we could well,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: if we could just make ourselves more count to you,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: if we could just take power back to the Shires,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: we might be better off. But so long as these
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: people who are at the top of the pyramid, I
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: go back this pyramid symbology. As long as those people
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: are sitting there in London and telling the rest of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: us what's good for us, we are going to have problems.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: And it won't just be immigration, it'll be transhumanism, It'll
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: be I don't know, doing away with cash. That all
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: these things that we're all having to struggle with all
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: come back not to the symptom, which is, you know,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: lots of Pakistanis and Indians and Nigerians coming into the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: country and putting pressure on our nation because we can't
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: we just can't house them. It's as simple as that.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: But it's the real traitors, The real enemies are people
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: who look just like us. Yeah, they're as white as
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: you and I are, and there as English as you
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: and I are, and they're sitting there down in London
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: and they think they have the right to destroy our
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: lives because they've got a better ideal. Yeah, and we
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: should just do as we're told, and you know, crawl
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: up into a corner and die somewhere, basically, because I
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: think that that's basically what they want for the majority,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: and they are the real enemy, and people need to
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: focus that that is where the enemy is, is where
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: the power.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: Is, and let's just end and really end by reinforcing
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: that that point with Tony Blair made a completely open
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: and publicly reported statement at one point that his intention
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: was to create a new political class who would be appointed.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: That goes back to your to your common purpose thing
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: which you used to talk about years ago, which I
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: just listened to, and the post the post democratic society. Yeah,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: that's what they were good. That's what they were pushing.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: They were good pushing this. I had some I mentioned
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: this to a customer one day about common Purpose. I've
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: been watching one of your things and I happened to
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: just mention it. And this is in Milton Keynes. Yeah,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: and this is at least fifteen years ago. And they
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: said to me, oh, yeah, they're the new Masons. Common
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: Purpose are the new Masons. They're the new the new
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: way in which you create a class of people secretly
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: to control everybody else.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: That's very interesting. Joe, let's watching the clock. I think
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: we we need to come into a close in a minute.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: But you you brought in the spiritual aspect, which which
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: I think is is so critical. And i'd say to
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: the audience that at the weekend I got the opportunity
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: to do a little interview. I've still got to edit
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: it so it's not available yet, but I spoke to
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: a gentleman called Ross who has been very active with
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: the church down in Cornwall, and he was describing to
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: me how the Church of England system in Cornwall is
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: being absolutely dismantled as a result of policies which are
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: particularly coming through the Bishop of Truro, Bishop of Truro's office.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: And what does it involve, Well, it basically says we
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: have no money, We've run out of money and therefore
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: we can't pay vicars and therefore, well, unfortunately, you can't
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: have a vicar per parish, per church. It was the
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: traditional system. What we're going to have to do is
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: have one vicar for several churches and that could be
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: three or four, or five or ten. And if you're
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: worried about what the pastoral care is going to be,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: well don't because we're going to bring in amateurs we're
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: going to bring in members of the public who are
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: going to step in and fulfill the traditional role of
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: the vicar. And Ross took me through a lot of
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: detail about what he could see and ultimately he's saying
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: to me, Brian, the Church of England has now unleashed
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: a policy to destroy churches across the UK. And it
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: was a fascinating interview and I've got to say that
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: what he was talking about was making complete sense to me.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: I also pointed out to him that in research work
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: that the UK Column had done, we had Archbishop Wellby
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: at the time very excited that he was working with
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: internet bankers and hedge funds to raise seventeen trillion to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: support the global the gay Green agenda. So we can't
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: put rouse on churches, we can't support the poor in
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: the parish. But we had the Archbishop of Canterbury drinking
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: champagne with the likes of Christine Legard and others to
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: say we can raise seventeen trillion. This can't be accidental joke.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: This has got to be calculated destructive policy from the
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: very top of the Church of England.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, I call Justin Welby, just In the bastard. Yeah,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: because he is, by the way, and his father was
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: personal secretary to Winston Churching. Yeah. Justin before he became
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: a member of the Church of England, before he became
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: a part of the clergy, was involved in trading in
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: the city of London. So you see where this man
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: is coming from. He has no interest in the spiritual
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: well being of this country. He has no interest in
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: saving souls. He has no interest in telling men, women
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: and children about Jesus Christ. Because Jesus Christ is the
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: way in which you learn to have a more abundant life,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: a healthy life, a happy life. It's a fact, all right.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: For those of you who aren't religious, don't worry about it.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: It's just a fact. Go and buy yourself a Bible
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: and think about things. Read the Bible, think about things.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: You will find that Jesus Christ is the man. Yeah.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: So when you've got somebody like Justin coming along and
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: hollowing out the Church of England, because that's what he
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: was put there to do. As a matter of fact,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: I think one or two of them before him were
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: also given the same job. But essentially it's about hollowing
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: out our spiritual life. When I was a boy. In
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: our village, it was a post off, there was a
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: couple of pubs, and there was the church and the school. Yeah.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: Those are the things that make living in an English
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: village one of the most wonderful places to be. Yeah.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: And if you take away the church, you take away
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: the spiritual heart. It's not it's bad enough that the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: pubs go. Yeah, it's bad enough that the post office
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: has gone. Yeah, but you take away the.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: Church and that's it. All you have is the collection
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: of houses. I don't think people realize that. And I
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: oh no, I think people is beginning to dawn on
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: people that that's you need that church in the middle
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: of that village, by the village green in order for
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 3: a village, a community to have a real heart, especially
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: for the English people, the Scottish people, the Welsh people,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: the Ulster people. We are a Christian of people is
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: in the very essence of who we are. Everything about
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: our history and our to magicians and our customs is
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: based upon that Christianity. And when you get somebody like Wellby,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: who's from that vampire parasite class again, who they have
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: nothing but contempt to Jesus Christ, I genuinely believe a
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: great many of them are real, one hundred percent Satanists.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: And I mean that when I describe Satanist, I'm not
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: just talking about Anton LeVay and walking around with the
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: pitchfork or.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know, running about nude in the middle of
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: the night and all this kind of character. I'm talking
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: about people who genuinely believe in Satan's promise that they
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: can become God yea, that they can have their own
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: will to power and they can be their own their
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: own spiritual world is all to them, and it's all
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: about imposing. It's all about them having their will all
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: the time, every time. Yeah. And they see no reason
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: why you should ever do anything good unless it pleases you.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: I believe these people think that they can they can
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: live forever through transhumanism, that they can defeat God, that
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: they can do what they want, and they never ever
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: have to submit to a moral or ethical higher order
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: in the transcendent as God. You know that they never
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: have to and this is the important point I'd make
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: about Christianity, And they never have to have faith, They
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: never have to turn around and put their lives in
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: God's hands and say, all right, God, I'm beat you
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: know I can't do this. You're going to have to
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: do this. I'm going to rely upon my future, putting
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: my future in your hands. That's the wonder of life.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: That's where real life is. These people don't want that.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: They never want to be grateful, They ever want to
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: have to hand over their lives to God. They want
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: to be in charge all the time, and they want
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: to impose their will upon every aspect of their life
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: and everybody else's life. And that is true Satanism.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Very very interesting comment, job, and I'd like to continue
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: this too, so I hope that you'll come back, because
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about, both politically and spiritually.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: But there's two things I'd just like to say before
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: we part company. To the audience. Is that if you're
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: out there and our comments about reform and UKIP or
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: BMP whoever else we've mentioned, if you're feeling that your
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: feathers have been roffled and that we haven't quite been fair,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: then I hope that you will come and join us
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: for a part two about this, because I feel the
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: time has come for me, in particular, to take the
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: gloves off in respect to what I actually see going
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: on in the political party. So that's my challenge to
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: the audience. If you're finding this one is not to
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: your taste, or you're feeling a bit upset, don't disappear,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: come back for round two and we'll see where we
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: get to. And the other thing I'd like to say
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: is that if anybody is perhaps you know, not a
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: well it's not spirit I can deliberately use the word spiritual,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: but doesn't quite understand why you job have started a
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: home in or matters spiritual and Christian. Just think that
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, UK is a country in which
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: prayer is now being banned, in which a country in
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: which you pray and you can end up in court,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: you can end up in prison. So prayer is apparently
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: so dangerous it's got to be banned. And there's a
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: reason for this, And to understand the reason why the
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: government thinks that prayer is so dangerous, in my opinion,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: echoes back or reflects back onto the things that you've
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: just been talking about, because they're frightened of prayer because
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: it's the prayer which directly challenges their spiritual their malevolent
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: spiritual position.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely right. I think people don't recognize how important prayer is.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I always say there's two things that the
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Protestant needs. I am a Protestant. I make a big
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: deal about being a Protestant, and the two things that
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: a Protestant needs is King James, Bible, and prayer, because
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: prayer is the way in which we connect with that
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: transcendent power that is our father in heaven. And they
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: don't want to connect with our father in heaven. They
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: want to keep us unconnected, Yeah, with the transcendent with
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: our father. They want us all to be orphans who
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: they can abuse and beat and nobody, and we can't
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: have a connection with our father. Yeah. They want us
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: not to know our father. They want to keep us
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: trapped and caged and beaten down. Yeah. But when you
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: know your father, when you know your father's there and
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: he's on your side, then that gives you hope. They
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: don't want you to have that more than anything else
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: in the world.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: Joe, thank you very much. So from reform to prayer,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty astinct discussion in a bit
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: over an hour. So I'm going to say thank you
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: very much for joining me. It's been a really fascinating conversation.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: I've extended the invite to you, I hope.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: More than happy. Brilliant. I look forward to it. Brian
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: would be great.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you very much for joining me today.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Brian, Goodbye,