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D3 Coach Q&A - Jacob Fleegle (Messiah MBB) · The Student Athlete Sessions

0:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, we are live here for another edition of our Q&A series of D3 Head Coaches tonight.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: We are joined by Messiah Men's Basketball Head Coach, Jacob Flegel.
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SPEAKER_00: Jacob, thanks for joining.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you having me.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where are you calling in from tonight?
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SPEAKER_01: Downstairs in the man cave of my house.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to go in the office or anything.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: We have two little kids and just got them to bed and came downstairs now
0:27
SPEAKER_01: to talk coops for a little bit.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Strong, strong.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we find you.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: We're in July 2026, so kind of in the heart of recruiting right now.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Where have you and your staff been with Messiah?
0:43
SPEAKER_00: What types of events have you guys been seeing?
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're fortunate.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: One of my assistant coaches coaches a hoop group team,
0:49
SPEAKER_01: and so he's been all over the hoop group scene and has all those teams covered.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: We spent some time the last two weekends of made hoops.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: In the live period,
0:57
SPEAKER_01: we went to Philly Live,
0:58
SPEAKER_01: we went to Maryland Live,
1:00
SPEAKER_01: we drove down to North Carolina,
1:02
SPEAKER_01: did the North Carolina public school event and the private school event.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: And so we've been able to get around to a lot of different places.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: You know,
1:09
SPEAKER_01: we're a place where we can recruit nationally and we can talk about that
1:12
SPEAKER_01: a little bit later too.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: But so we've got to go a little bit, which I'm good with.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: I like doing it that way.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And that's been my experience to this point too.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Did you see North Mac down at that public school event in North
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Carolina?
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: All the Mac schools.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: That's my alma mater coach.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Is it really?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: We have a kid from Charlotte coming in.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: He went to Ballantyne Ridge New School in the last two or three years.
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SPEAKER_01: And so it's definitely North Carolina is definitely an area
1:44
SPEAKER_01: where I can see us getting some guys from.
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SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a mark here that my internet's unstable.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Let me just make sure what I'm on.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that looks good.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Before we get it going here.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: If either of us drop, we just rejoin and we'll keep it going.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that works.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's great.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: And then rest of the summer, do you guys have big plans?
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Have you mostly got your class of 2027 or sixes done, I guess, already?
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our 26es
2:21
SPEAKER_00: are done.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: We were mostly done...
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was kind of came in waves.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, we had three in November.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: I think we had like three more in January and then we got three more late.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: We got a big class coming in.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it kind of came in waves, which was, which was a little interesting this year.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah,
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I think Messiah is a place where we're,
2:42
SPEAKER_01: we're always going to be in the mix for some guys early, um,
2:45
SPEAKER_01: because of our niche and who we are as a Christian university,
2:48
SPEAKER_01: pretty intentional Christian college.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: And then, um, Yeah,
2:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: we were able to get some guys late who had some scholarship level interest and kind
2:56
SPEAKER_01: of let that process play out.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And we're grateful that they said yes and made the decision to come play for us.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: And so we're excited about the group and we're excited about pairing that group now
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SPEAKER_01: with the returners.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the challenge of every coach and certainly whenever you take over a program.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: One year in is how you mesh all the pieces together because basketball is
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SPEAKER_01: so chemistry-oriented.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not a numbers game recruiting-wise in terms of metrics.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I personally put a lot more stock into fit and being able to have all
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SPEAKER_01: the pieces fit together as opposed to, let's just get the five best players.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Sure, we want really talented players,
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SPEAKER_01: but we also have to know that it all works together as a group.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: On the topic of program building, you're coming from Emory.
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SPEAKER_00: You've been at schools like Carnegie Mellon, Juniata, others around the country.
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SPEAKER_00: And at Emory,
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SPEAKER_00: you guys had a tremendous amount of success and now maybe more in
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SPEAKER_00: the program building stage of things.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: What are...
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Maybe for recruits listening to this,
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SPEAKER_00: like what are the traits that you're talking about that make it feel as a coach that
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SPEAKER_00: a recruit can come in and mesh and be part of that program building experience?
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Which I think is paramount in recruiting is identifying guys who are the right fit,
4:20
SPEAKER_01: finding guys who fit the school, obviously who fit your style of play.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: But guys,
4:26
SPEAKER_01: especially in the world of transferring and everything,
4:29
SPEAKER_01: as crazy as it is right now at the portal,
4:31
SPEAKER_01: More than ever,
4:32
SPEAKER_01: it's more important that you have guys who you can retain,
4:33
SPEAKER_01: who you can keep here, who want to be here, who you can build a group around.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot about trust, and that takes a lot of time to build trust, certainly deep trust.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And so having guys who are going to be here is really important as you go through that process.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we really look for guys who really know how to play.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't personally call a ton of sets or run a ton of different things.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a little more motion-oriented and pace.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: So we have to have guys who understand the game of basketball,
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SPEAKER_01: who know how to play, who can make decisions.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And certainly we help with that and we emphasize different actions that we want
5:10
SPEAKER_01: and different things.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: But we really just need guys who have a sense for how to play the game and can play with pace.
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SPEAKER_01: Those two things are really important for us.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we touched on your coaching experience.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: You also played at the Division III level at Waynesburg, also in Pennsylvania.
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SPEAKER_00: Not too far from where you grew up,
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SPEAKER_00: about, I'd say, under two hours, maybe driving if the traffic's good.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: It was about an hour 40, hour 45 away.
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SPEAKER_01: Close enough that I could get home,
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SPEAKER_01: but far enough away that I had my next stage of life, my independence.
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SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it was a great fit for me.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: How did your recruiting process turn out?
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Because you grew up in Jennerstown, which is not a huge place.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: That's being generous.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: There's more cows than people in Jennerstown.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: There's about 600 people in Jennerstown.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so maybe for any kid listening to this who is at a small school or in
6:10
SPEAKER_00: a small town growing up, what did you do to get on the radar of coaches?
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Because things have changed.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: I would say when you and I played,
6:21
SPEAKER_00: The internet was used for scouting,
6:24
SPEAKER_00: but we were still doing like,
6:26
SPEAKER_00: there were still some zip drives being sent through the mail at times.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Send out.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: I remember my dad bought like a machine to convert or recorded the API.
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SPEAKER_01: So we could send out DVDs to college coaches.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: And obviously that's changed with Huddle.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Huddle was not a thing when I was playing.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: It seems crazy to say,
6:45
SPEAKER_01: but it just wasn't like,
6:47
SPEAKER_01: you know, our high school coaches went and exchanged film or drove them.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: I've scouted games, like scouting reports was totally different.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I think you have to be,
6:58
SPEAKER_01: you have to have a little bit of an idea of what you're looking for.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: More so, you know, kind of understood my, the level that I was going to play was D3D2.
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SPEAKER_01: Like that was where my recruiting was coming from.
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SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of look at those schools and those options and say,
7:13
SPEAKER_01: all right, what do I want to major in?
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SPEAKER_01: How far away do I want to go from home?
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: What's my relationship been like with the coach, with the assistant coach?
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SPEAKER_01: What's the feel when I get on campus?
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SPEAKER_01: I think the more that you can know what you're looking for, the better, obviously.
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SPEAKER_01: It helps you kind of work through that process.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: I was fortunate that I had a decent number of schools recruiting me,
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SPEAKER_01: so I had some different options at a lot of different types of schools.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: And so like I said,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: just try to sit down and understand what I'm actually looking
7:43
SPEAKER_01: for was really important.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Honestly,
7:45
SPEAKER_01: that's one of the first things that I ask recruits when I call them
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SPEAKER_01: or whenever I see them out,
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SPEAKER_01: if I'm working event or whatever,
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SPEAKER_01: is if you had to pick two or three things,
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SPEAKER_01: What are those things that you're non-negotiable?
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SPEAKER_01: Like when I make my decision on school, it's going to include this and this.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think that helps me as a coach,
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SPEAKER_01: obviously,
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SPEAKER_01: being a Christian school, I can kind of get a sense for, hey, are they a fit here?
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SPEAKER_01: Are they not?
8:11
SPEAKER_01: Is this what they're looking for?
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Is it, hey, that's great.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: I vibe with that, but it's not a non-negotiable.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: I can kind of work through that process as a coach.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: But then it also, yeah,
8:23
SPEAKER_01: it allows me to say like, hey,
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SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure this is the right fit or,
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SPEAKER_01: and I can, you know, we can have that conversation as well.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather,
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather just have an honest conversation than,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: lead someone on or, hey,
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SPEAKER_01: I don't think they're actually fit,
8:36
SPEAKER_01: but let me bring them to campus to see like,
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, I just, we need guys who want to be here.
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SPEAKER_01: And I think whenever you identify the right guys,
8:44
SPEAKER_01: you can have a really high yield at a place like Messiah.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: I think that makes a lot of sense.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's better for both parties,
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SPEAKER_00: recruit and coach, when, yeah,
8:53
SPEAKER_00: there's more transparency up front and the visit's serious or
8:58
SPEAKER_00: the camp attendance is serious and both people really want to be there.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Let's hit pause for a second and just the people who have joined in the room,
9:10
SPEAKER_00: feel free to get your questions out there and asked.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: This is a live Q&A,
9:18
SPEAKER_00: so feel free as you think of something that you want to ask Coach Flegel,
9:25
SPEAKER_00: just drop it in the chat and we can get that addressed throughout.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: So while we're waiting for that,
9:31
SPEAKER_00: I would say maybe just quickly talk about how you,
9:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you started as a grad assistant.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Did you always know you wanted to be a college coach and was
9:43
SPEAKER_00: that something you wanted to pursue after graduation?
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so whenever I graduated at Waynesburg,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: I stayed on there as a GA for the next two years, which was a unique dynamic.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Some of those are some of my best friends and now my relationship with them has
9:58
SPEAKER_01: to change in terms of time you spend with them,
10:01
SPEAKER_01: how you're hanging out with them, even the conversations that you have, right?
10:04
SPEAKER_01: There's a different...
10:06
SPEAKER_01: A different conversation to be had and so just had to go through that process
10:10
SPEAKER_01: a little bit but I didn't always know I wanted to be a college coach.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I was an education major.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: I thought I wanted to teach and coach high school.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And then I played for Mark Kristner, who's now the women's coach at Calvin.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And he just, yeah, he was a huge part of, probably the main part reason I went to Williamsburg.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: I just really connected with him and his vision for the program.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I find myself now at Messiah in a very similar place to him.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was part of his first recruiting class.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: We won five games my freshman year and senior year.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: We were playing in the conference championship.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I constantly am thinking back to my experience as a player.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: How that can relate and that experience can help our guys here.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: But he really encouraged me.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Coach Kristner did.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: It's probably my junior year to try out the college coaching.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: I never really saw it.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't have any relatives who are college coaches or anything.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: And so I never really saw it as the career path for me.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: But then I went and I worked camp at VCU one summer and just absolutely fell in love with it.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And then I went and worked Michigan State's camp.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: It felt like it just kept, it was like a snowball.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: It just kept going.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm a huge Michigan State fan.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And so to meet Tom Izzo and to work his camp and the last night of camp,
11:26
SPEAKER_01: he has everyone over to his house that's working.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah, it was just surreal.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, just kind of fell in love with the process of it.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what were those things that Coach Christianer,
11:37
SPEAKER_00: when he was recruiting you, what sold you on his vision for the program?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously,
11:41
SPEAKER_00: in retrospect,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: it's great to say, okay,
11:43
SPEAKER_00: we went from five games to play and then playoffs,
11:45
SPEAKER_00: but what were those things that gave you a clue
11:48
SPEAKER_00: that maybe other recruits should think about Sure.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he had his background first, you know, while Waynesburg was his first head coaching job.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: He had a really good resume in terms of his experience at Calvin,
12:03
SPEAKER_01: you know, a really top 25 program every year, right?
12:07
SPEAKER_01: They're always really good.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: So just knowing that there was a blueprint that he had for the program
12:15
SPEAKER_01: and he knew what it looked like to be a program at a high level.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: And I talk a lot about that with my Emory experience now in recruiting.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: And so that was a huge part of it.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And then the second,
12:28
SPEAKER_01: being a Christian and going to a Christian school and he was someone that...
12:33
SPEAKER_01: I felt like could really mentor me and disciple me and could really help me grow
12:38
SPEAKER_01: in my faith spiritually.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, he was probably in his early 30s.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know exactly how old he was when he got the job.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And I remember on my visit, Coach Christian, if you know him, he's a pretty...
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Maybe mellow is the right word in terms of just casual conversation with you and I.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: It's not overly expressive or loud.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: He always talks about just being right here.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: And so we left the office and I was like, oh, that was interesting.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: And then I went and watched them play at St. Vincent's.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And he called a timeout like two minutes into the game and let the guys have it.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, he's got it.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: He's got that fire for sure.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And so after we watched them play that game, I was like, yeah, I want to go play for him.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Like that kind of solidified it for me.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, like I said, I took a lot of visits.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: I probably took too many visits, to be honest.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: I wish I would have taken my own advice.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And I guess maybe that's where my advice comes from now of Just what are you looking for?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And then let's find places that fit that and start there.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to know without getting on campus.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: It is until you go see.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And I encourage guys,
13:54
SPEAKER_01: if they say,
13:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at Messiah,
13:56
SPEAKER_01: but then also these two other schools and maybe another one is a Christian school
13:59
SPEAKER_01: and maybe one's not, I say,
14:00
SPEAKER_01: you should go take those visits because you're going to find out What you want,
14:05
SPEAKER_01: right?
14:05
SPEAKER_01: It's going to solidify it one way or another.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Hey, maybe I want to be on a secular campus or maybe I want to be on a Christian campus.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I want, you know, whatever.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: But I encourage you guys to take multiple visits.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: There's certainly times where I'm like, all right, man, you're taking a lot of visits.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's make it close.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's just me being impatient.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there's value in going and seeing.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: And then, like I said, evaluating that.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Hey, what am I actually looking for here?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: I think both
14:35
SPEAKER_02: of those are good points.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, encourage recruits to get on campus.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Definitely think about it.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: But also, you know, no one has unlimited money.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And your parents have limited time.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: So try to be conscientious of that, especially if they're driving you around the country.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah,
14:55
SPEAKER_00: I think in terms of like your vision for the program,
15:00
SPEAKER_00: if you were going to sell Recruits on the side and what you guys are trying
15:05
SPEAKER_00: to build there.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: What is that message?
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've already talked about Christian school and how you're going
15:14
SPEAKER_01: to develop academically, athletically, spiritually.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Those are all really important.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Our priorities for our program are faith and family, academics, and then PSI basketball.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And they've got to stay in that order.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: And you can be part of whatever club.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: You can do all the things, right?
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Messiah is one thing I love about it.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: There's so many opportunities.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: We have 80-plus majors.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I have yet to recruit a kid that we couldn't.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: We couldn't make it work academically in terms of major.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful for that.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: And so we just have to keep those three priorities.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Those being our priorities.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: And again,
15:50
SPEAKER_01: it's not,
15:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Maasai basketball can't jump ahead of academics or ahead of your faith and family.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, they're in that order for a reason.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: And we approach it as such.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: And I think when guys align with that and guys understand that,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: they see a lot of value in that and doing it that way.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I,
16:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:11
SPEAKER_01: within our program,
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a ton of opportunity,
16:13
SPEAKER_01: you know, besides the place we've been to three NCAA tournaments in the past.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not like I'm trying to create something out of thin air right here.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: It's not, you know, there's proof that it can be done and you look around.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Our whole athletic department is pretty much top 25 in the country in a lot of sports.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I look around, I'm like, oh, we can do that here.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: There's proof that it can be done within our department and certainly feel supported
16:42
SPEAKER_01: from an administration standpoint to do it as well.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: And beautiful facilities.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were just able to add a full-time assistant to our staff.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And so that's been a huge blessing too,
16:54
SPEAKER_01: to be able to go from two GAs,
16:57
SPEAKER_01: which I love the GA model in terms of being able to mentor and help guys
17:01
SPEAKER_01: with their coaching career and get going.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time,
17:04
SPEAKER_01: there's a ton of value in getting someone with experience and them being able
17:09
SPEAKER_01: to deal with the program longer than two years.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful for that.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think for us,
17:16
SPEAKER_01: it's all about fit and identifying those guys from a personal standpoint and then
17:20
SPEAKER_01: a basketball standpoint as well.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: On your comment about Messiah's athletic department, I mean,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I remember being a student at Swarthmore
17:28
SPEAKER_00: and I feel like our women's soccer teams would always face off with Messiah
17:32
SPEAKER_00: and there were some battles there.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: What have you kind of learned from other coaches at Messiah?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: What are some takeaways you had there so far?
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just go and sit in somebody's office and you can leave with pages of notes
17:48
SPEAKER_01: if you want, which I'm grateful to be surrounded by those people.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's a place where coaches tend to stay for a while because it's what they're looking for.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: It's what they love.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a place you can be successful.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a ton of opportunity.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: You know,
18:03
SPEAKER_01: I've been able to probably the coach that I've got closest with in
18:07
SPEAKER_01: the department is our baseball coach.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: And he started five years ago, took a program, turned it around two years ago.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: They were in the national championship game, lost to Whitewater.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: This past year,
18:16
SPEAKER_01: went to the super regional, like, Yeah,
18:18
SPEAKER_01: Phil's just,
18:19
SPEAKER_01: he's kind of like, as I follow the next four-year track, like, that's the model.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: That's what we're looking for.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And so,
18:26
SPEAKER_01: I've been grateful to have a ton of different conversations and play golf with him
18:29
SPEAKER_01: and spend some time there, which is awesome.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: But, I remember three conversations in particular just in terms of recruiting
18:37
SPEAKER_01: and building and roster management.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: One with each of our soccer coaches and then one with our women's basketball coach
18:44
SPEAKER_01: who is second all-time winning D3 coach.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: He's incredible.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: He's been an awesome mentor for me as well, Coach Miller to this point.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: And so really just in terms of program building, roster management, what it looks like.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: And they're a constant encouragement for me to have a little patience in the process
19:06
SPEAKER_01: because I'm very process-oriented.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a results-oriented guy, but man, I try to speed that up as fast as I can.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: And so being patient and sticking with that is always a good reminder for me.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Especially someone career, long career, they're like, you know, it'll come.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: But no, it is great to be able to look around the athletic department and see
19:29
SPEAKER_00: the support that's there.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: You talk about adding a full-time assistant.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: That's no small feat for a Division III school.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I think, you know, the situation seems primed.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: You have the background, the experience, and the mindset to get it done.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: So I think bright things ahead for the program, for sure.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: I probably wore out Coach Zerman's cell phone during the year, too.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Just, hey, what did you do in year one?
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Hey, what'd you do?
19:57
SPEAKER_01: How'd you do this?
19:57
SPEAKER_01: How many guys did you carry?
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's obviously having left Emory now, but he's...
20:04
SPEAKER_01: In my four years there, and then to this day, he's a huge mentor and resource.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just grateful for his leadership too.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: And he's very honest too,
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I think,
20:17
SPEAKER_00: at least in my conversations with him about his own failures as a coach and growing
20:23
SPEAKER_00: from that.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: And people see what he's done at Emory and he's had a lot of success.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: But I think he does a great job of being Having that humility to say,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: hey, I took my own stumbles and had to figure it out on my own too.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: So he's probably a great guy to learn from,
20:43
SPEAKER_00: both the X's and O's,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: but also just the life side of being a coach and figuring that all out.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And I always say this, dude, he's, he was,
20:53
SPEAKER_01: those four years,
20:54
SPEAKER_01: we had our first,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: our daughter when we were in Atlanta,
20:57
SPEAKER_01: and then just had our son during the season this year.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: But I learned so much from him about being a dad and a coach at the same time
21:07
SPEAKER_01: and what that looks like to invite your family into it.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's a lot of people, sorry, I'm going to go off on a little tangent here.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: No, please, please.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: There's, yeah, the coaching profession, everyone's like, um, There's no work-life balance.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: It's either your work, your job, or your family.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: There is no, and I just, I totally disagree with that.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
21:25
SPEAKER_01: as an assistant,
21:26
SPEAKER_01: you're a little bit at the mercy of your head coach in the athletic department
21:29
SPEAKER_01: of Yeah, what that looks like.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: But he was a great example to me of just bringing your family into the program,
21:38
SPEAKER_01: having your kids around the program.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: And his kids are college and son just graduated.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: They're older, a different life stage.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: But for me,
21:45
SPEAKER_01: it was just like,
21:45
SPEAKER_01: no, my daughter should come watch the last five minutes of practice and I can...
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I can hold her while I'm doing it.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Not every day, but yeah.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's the way that his wife Tracy kind of welcomed the team over to the house
22:00
SPEAKER_01: and was super hospitable and new assistant coaches.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: When I moved down there,
22:04
SPEAKER_01: they had us over and what that process looks like to show people that you care
22:08
SPEAKER_01: about them and you love them.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that whole process.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: That whole example was huge for me now.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Like I said,
22:15
SPEAKER_01: as we add a full-time assistant and we recruit new players and kind of try
22:19
SPEAKER_01: to bring them together with the old ones and was our returners.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Like that example was all really important.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like as a player too,
22:27
SPEAKER_00: there's,
22:28
SPEAKER_00: there's something really,
22:29
SPEAKER_00: you know, especially I was, I was a little further from home.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I was like a seven or eight hour drive and there was something really fun about
22:35
SPEAKER_00: a coach that,
22:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:37
SPEAKER_00: not only brought his own family and so you got to know His wife or,
22:40
SPEAKER_00: you know, the partner and the parents and the kids.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And, but then also,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:45
SPEAKER_00: like they'd have you over to the house and it becomes more of like a,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: you know, more than just the sport and you know, they care about you as a person.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: And, and especially like I was saying,
22:57
SPEAKER_00: when you're far from home,
22:58
SPEAKER_00: it's nice to have,
22:59
SPEAKER_00: nice to get a home cooked meal and go hang out and kind of know them on
23:03
SPEAKER_00: that different level.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Keep going.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: No, I was just going to say,
23:10
SPEAKER_00: now when I go back,
23:10
SPEAKER_00: that richness is still there,
23:11
SPEAKER_00: those relationships are still there, and it just makes it really special, so.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our roster's probably,
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I think we have seven different states represented on the roster right now.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty national.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: It's like this coming year, we have a guy coming in from the state of Washington, right?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Like he's going to be literally as far away as possible from home,
23:29
SPEAKER_01: maybe unless he went to Swarthmore or a little bit farther.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
23:34
SPEAKER_01: so just being their kind of their home away from home and their family
23:39
SPEAKER_01: and their parents, you know, knowing that their son's taken care of.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: It's really important.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: I just said pause and we'll ask for questions in the chat.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing that the feed itself still says starting.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: It looks like it's live, but maybe people are being prevented from joining.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: So those who are in the chat, feel free to ask questions.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I see Troy and David, you guys are frequent listeners here.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Feel free to Throw one out and we can get it answered for you if you have one.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: If not, though,
24:17
SPEAKER_00: I would ask about while we're waiting,
24:20
SPEAKER_00: just like,
24:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:21
SPEAKER_00: if you guys have people coming in from Washington,
24:23
SPEAKER_00: what are your,
24:24
SPEAKER_00: are there institutional priorities that are saying like,
24:27
SPEAKER_00: let's get more kids in from around the country?
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Because I know a lot of D3 schools tend to recruit in their roughly close geographic area.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: What is Messiah's goal there?
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no,
24:38
SPEAKER_01: there's not been any guidance or any push from an admissions standpoint
24:42
SPEAKER_01: or university standpoint.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: That recruiting approach is, I mean, we had a ton of success doing it at Emory, right?
24:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I have connections in different areas that I'm able to tap into.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: And I would say bigger than that,
24:55
SPEAKER_01: you know, when people are looking for a Christian college like Messiah, right?
25:01
SPEAKER_01: They're probably going to be willing to go, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_01: And there's not...
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Seattle Pacific is a Division II school,
25:07
SPEAKER_01: is a Christian school up there,
25:08
SPEAKER_01: but there's not really that option on the West Coast a ton.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: And so we're able to get guys who are interested.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Our starting point guard this past year was from Houston, Texas.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: I was a kid that I recruited right after I got hired and was able to get him in kind
25:24
SPEAKER_01: of late, which was great.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
25:27
SPEAKER_01: it's more really about finding guys who want this and then whenever they do find
25:31
SPEAKER_01: that, there's certainly a draw to it.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the high academic world, right?
25:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm just taking the academic side or the academic focus of Emory
25:39
SPEAKER_01: and I've just moved it to from a faith standpoint.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: What does that look like and who wants that and who are you looking for?
25:46
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, I also, I really try to approach recruiting as not sales, right?
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have...
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I do.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: My assistants would probably tell you I do, but I don't have a sales pitch necessarily.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to sell guys or convince guys to come.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of how I approach it.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Actually,
26:07
SPEAKER_01: my first year as a GA,
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Coach Christopher had myself and the other assistant read a book called To Sell
26:12
SPEAKER_01: as Human by Daniel Pink.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And the whole idea was that regardless of what you're in,
26:17
SPEAKER_01: regardless of what profession, what job, everything you do is sales.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: And I just, I got frustrated by it.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't stand the notion of me trying to sell you on something.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: And I've had a ton of conversations with some of my best friends that are like,
26:32
SPEAKER_01: yeah, but at the end of the day, what you're describing is sales.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I get it, but I don't.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: But I refuse to like allow that.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm very, very upfront, very honest.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Like this is who we are.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: This is what we're about.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: This is where we're going and I want you to be a part of it.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And if that's for you, then let's do it.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: And if not, that's okay.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Right?
26:50
SPEAKER_01: No hard feelings.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fine.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: It's not the first time I've been told no and not the last.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Certainly we like hearing more yeses than nos, but it's part of the deal.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I've found a ton of success when you approach it that way.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, People, they just get to know who you are, right?
27:07
SPEAKER_01: It starts that, like I said, trust is really important to us.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Trust, commitment, and care, as I'm sure you've heard, you know, from the Davidson line.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: It's who we are.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: It's what we're about.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just, yeah, we found a ton of success doing it that way.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: All right.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into the nuts and bolts a little bit of recruiting.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: These are questions that kids come to us a lot with.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: It's just like, how do I get on a coach's radar?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: So at Messiah...
27:35
SPEAKER_00: What are the things that recruits have done that have got your attention
27:41
SPEAKER_00: or your staff's attention to start the recruiting process?
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there's definitely connecting with coaches who you're very interested
27:54
SPEAKER_01: in attending instead of just kind of mass.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: When we get mass emails, it's pretty easy to sell.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And certainly with the AI world now,
27:59
SPEAKER_01: like, There are definitely some telltale signs of an AI-generated email.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: I have no problem with guys who use it to get a template.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: But then you got to personalize that to us, right?
28:13
SPEAKER_01: In parentheses, if it says insert school name, I'm pretty sure you didn't take that, right?
28:19
SPEAKER_01: We can tell, right?
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And so just take an extra minute, reread your email that you send us.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Make sure it has,
28:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:28
SPEAKER_01: your contact info,
28:29
SPEAKER_01: some high school info, academic info, highlights or full game film, both, right?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Put a full game film and then your season highlights would be awesome.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Just guys who you can tell who are organized and put together
28:42
SPEAKER_01: and know what they're doing, know what they're looking for.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: You can tell a lot in an email.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: The other way is social media.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, in the world of social media, the...
28:53
SPEAKER_01: Understanding that you are a brand, right?
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Whatever you are putting out there is what people are going
28:59
SPEAKER_01: to make decisions based off of, right?
29:02
SPEAKER_01: So if in your bio,
29:05
SPEAKER_01: you have your school,
29:07
SPEAKER_01: your GPA,
29:08
SPEAKER_01: your test scores,
29:08
SPEAKER_01: you've taken it,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: position you play, maybe,
29:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
29:12
SPEAKER_01: just all the pertinent information can go a long way in terms of helping be able
29:18
SPEAKER_01: to identify people A fit at a school, right?
29:21
SPEAKER_01: And then,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: pin your highlights to it,
29:23
SPEAKER_01: most recent highlights or your season highlights, whatever that looks like.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: But the more walls that you can break down in terms of helping coaches identify
29:32
SPEAKER_01: a fit is really important.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think I've seen a lot of kids do it well in terms of using social media as a resource.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Actually,
29:42
SPEAKER_01: the guy that we have coming in from Charlotte,
29:44
SPEAKER_01: we first found him because he followed our staff, all three of our staff on Twitter.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: His highlights were pinned there.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: We watched him.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's pretty good.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Let's get him on the phone, start having conversations, right?
29:54
SPEAKER_01: So he's a great example of someone who did it well.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Taking that proactive step to just...
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Go out and follow,
30:01
SPEAKER_00: because there are thousands of college coaches out there,
30:05
SPEAKER_00: and relying on them to assume that you're interested is hard.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: So like you're saying,
30:13
SPEAKER_00: give them signals,
30:14
SPEAKER_00: but then once they,
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I think we try to drill this in with recruits to say,
30:20
SPEAKER_00: once they give you that attention,
30:21
SPEAKER_00: once they click on your profile, have everything there.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: The fact that the relevant highlight was linked,
30:29
SPEAKER_00: You guys could click it and it takes,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: five minutes to sit there and watch that versus,
30:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:35
SPEAKER_00: someone sends you an email and then you have to search through and The likelihood
30:39
SPEAKER_00: that you're going to get on the phone with someone
30:41
SPEAKER_00: who doesn't have their stuff organized is just much lower.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so many people that reach out and there's so many guys who we could recruit,
30:50
SPEAKER_01: right?
30:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to find a way to make yourself stand out.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: And by breaking down barriers to coaches,
30:56
SPEAKER_01: you're more likely to get views on your highlight or clicks on your transcript
31:01
SPEAKER_01: that you post, whatever the deal is, right?
31:03
SPEAKER_01: The easier you can make it on coaches, the better it's going to be.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: It's just the reality of our time.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: We just don't.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Being on the road, having families, going to high school games, going to our own practices.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: It's a balance for us.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: The more barriers you can break down for the coaches, the better.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: That's not me saying, just spoon-feeding everything.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I'll do my due diligence on guys for sure.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: But if you're talking about that initial contact,
31:33
SPEAKER_00: the more that you can show who you are,
31:38
SPEAKER_01: obviously the better it's going to be for you.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: We talk about it as friction.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Removing friction in the process where the less things that the coach has to do,
31:52
SPEAKER_00: it's not that you doubt that the recruits need to spoon feed you.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: It's that it's kind of on them.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: If they want to play, it's not...
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Playing a college sport is not something that everyone gets to do,
32:01
SPEAKER_00: and it is a privilege, and it takes a lot of work and organization and discipline.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think it's a good reminder just...
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you got everything in one place so that,
32:14
SPEAKER_00: you know,
32:14
SPEAKER_00: in the midst of everything you have going on,
32:16
SPEAKER_00: you talked about being a dad in addition to being a coach, right?
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think when recruits get frustrated that coaches don't respond to them,
32:23
SPEAKER_00: they do forget that they are people and they have these whole lives,
32:27
SPEAKER_00: you know, that they're also trying to live and they're getting a lot of emails in.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: And so it's as much as you can do to make that easier,
32:37
SPEAKER_00: it just increases your likelihood of getting recruited.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay to send a follow-up,
32:42
SPEAKER_01: but we had one situation this year where someone sent us an email
32:48
SPEAKER_01: and not even 24 hours later, followed, hey, did you get my email?
32:53
SPEAKER_01: And then we had a game that day, and so I didn't reply.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: And then the next day, I woke up to another email from home, like, hey, man.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we will get there.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Give us a second.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Versus, hey, a week from now, hey, just wanted to follow up.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Here's an updated highlight if you're interested.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Would love to hear from you.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: That's certainly appropriate in that sense, too.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but try to have some patience.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Some patience and a little bit of fortitude.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Just because you don't hear back doesn't mean you're not getting recruited,
33:26
SPEAKER_00: but maybe wait a couple weeks.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Just give it a second.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Give it some
33:30
SPEAKER_00: time.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: What about at a showcase or like at an event?
33:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned all the ones that you guys have been to so far.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: What are things,
33:41
SPEAKER_00: obviously someone,
33:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:42
SPEAKER_00: you're looking for a shooter and they're shooting the ball well, that's obvious.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: But like,
33:46
SPEAKER_00: what are some other things you've seen in a showcase that might be,
33:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:51
SPEAKER_00: a player didn't know that this was a good thing,
33:53
SPEAKER_00: but you guys and your staff, maybe it was a positive checkmark on their sheets.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: I think I mentioned it a little bit earlier.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Know how to play.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I love to write the note KHTP next to a guy's name in a packet or in a booklet.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Just knows how to play.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Guys who make the right decision,
34:13
SPEAKER_01: who are unselfish,
34:14
SPEAKER_01: who I might have an open shot,
34:16
SPEAKER_01: but that is a better shot and I'm going to throw the next one.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: That stuff is really important.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And then in this first recruiting class, especially, we just graduated three seniors.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: We're Their leadership for us is really important right now.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: And so finding guys who we felt could project out as leaders,
34:36
SPEAKER_01: as guys who really wanted to do it,
34:38
SPEAKER_01: who are going to take the reins of this thing and move it forward as we go.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of talk about the best teams are player-led teams.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think there's definitely truth to that.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think obviously coaches still need to be great leaders too.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, leadership qualities were really important for us as we went through this class.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I think we were able to identify and get a couple guys who really want to do it,
35:05
SPEAKER_01: who saw the vision of what I see.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Messiah being a place that is a little bit of an athletics powerhouse.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: We were 30th in the Learfield Cup standings last year.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: It can be done and that's what I'm excited about.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: We were able to get guys who felt the same and were really great fits and
35:24
SPEAKER_01: who really want to do it.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: So I'm constantly looking for some of those leadership,
35:28
SPEAKER_01: communication,
35:29
SPEAKER_01: eye contact,
35:31
SPEAKER_01: obviously body language is really important, how you interact with your coaches.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm on you about something that you did during a game,
35:41
SPEAKER_01: is it just going to collapse your world and you're going to not be able to perform
35:45
SPEAKER_01: for the rest of the game?
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Or is it going to be something like, yes, sir, I got you.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Let's go on to the next play.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: So how you respond to coaching is really important.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Your body language after those conversations.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Also finding... Everyone wants to be a great teammate, right?
36:01
SPEAKER_01: That's important.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: But finding times when guys both...
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Put their arm around their teammate and at the same time hold them accountable.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Or in two separate situations, hold someone accountable and then put their arm around them.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: That's how you know that, oh, that's a dude who guys respect.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: He clearly puts the work in.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: He clearly cares.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: He wants to do it.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: He's coming from good intentions.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: I can get somebody's attention by holding them accountable and getting on them.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I'm going to recognize when they need something different.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: And so finding guys who have that capability are really important.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those kind of intangibles and I like that.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Knows how to play.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: That's a big one.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: That's a huge, like I said, the style we play, we don't call a ton of sets or anything.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: We need guys who can make decisions at pace is really important.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: So guys who know how to play the game and just make the right plays.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: And you guys got your elite camp coming up here in a couple months, September 5th.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you see, you know, or like, what are the goals for that?
37:10
SPEAKER_00: How many recruits maybe are you trying to get and the message for kids debating
37:14
SPEAKER_00: whether or not to attend?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: So one of our incoming guys for the 2026 class came to our league camp.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: That was where we first saw him, which was great.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: And then obviously we went on to recruit him and his team came back to our shootout
37:26
SPEAKER_01: and then we had him to campus.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: We went and saw him play, you know, the whole process.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Two of our priority guys for the class of 2027 came to elite camp last year.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: And then we kind of tracked them through their junior year.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: And now we've seen them a bunch this summer.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And we're starting to have the conversation of, hey,
37:43
SPEAKER_01: this fall, let's get you to camp once school's in session, once our guys are back.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: So for us, it's really important.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't...
37:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't treat it as a money grab.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: Everyone who comes there, I evaluate.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: We have a rating system that our staff uses.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: And I am very upfront about it.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: I tell all the kids,
38:00
SPEAKER_01: all the families,
38:01
SPEAKER_01: if you want feedback, I'm happy to give that myself or someone from our staff.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: If my assistant coached his team, I'm probably going to let my assistant give you the feedback.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: But we will be able to give every single kid feedback from that camp if they want it.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: And what I'm always...
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Quick to remind them of is if you ask for feedback,
38:19
SPEAKER_01: you're going to get feedback and it might not be what you want to hear.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And that's the reality too, right?
38:23
SPEAKER_01: That's just kind of how we operate.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: We deal in truths and...
38:27
SPEAKER_01: I always use the saying with our guys, I love you enough to tell you the truth.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to lie to you.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like, this is where we see you as a player.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: This is what you do well.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: This is where you need to improve to play at the college level or to play
38:39
SPEAKER_01: at maybe even a Division II level or Division I level.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: But we're always very willing to give that feedback.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: And we want people to come away from that camp.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: With a chance to become a better basketball player, whether you play for us or not.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: We wanted to expose you to,
39:00
SPEAKER_01: we try to run it like we do a lot of our drills that we do with our team.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: We do it at a college pace.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: We have an admission session.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: We do a campus tour.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: You're going to be kind of immersed in Messiah basketball,
39:13
SPEAKER_01: but in college basketball a little bit in general as well.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: So I want guys to See the conditioning level they need to get to,
39:20
SPEAKER_01: to see the skill level they need to get to,
39:22
SPEAKER_01: what our guys look like physically, right?
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Talk to them, get their experience.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: We have a players panel.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: They can ask our guys all the questions they want.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: And so we really try to make it a productive one for them, for everybody in general.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, everybody can't come play for us.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: That's not how it works.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: But we want to help guys along in their process in whatever that looks like throughout that day.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: One thing that I think has come up a lot,
39:52
SPEAKER_00: and especially,
39:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:54
SPEAKER_00: kind of in the moment we're in,
39:56
SPEAKER_00: in recruiting,
39:56
SPEAKER_00: it's like,
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I think,
39:59
SPEAKER_00: especially giving your perspective,
40:01
SPEAKER_00: having coached at,
40:02
SPEAKER_00: you know, now five D3 schools,
40:08
SPEAKER_00: talk about just the coaching world, right?
40:11
SPEAKER_00: And maybe, like,
40:13
SPEAKER_00: have you ever seen a situation where A kid came to your elite camp or came
40:18
SPEAKER_00: to someone else's elite camp and then they couldn't get in or they weren't
40:21
SPEAKER_00: the right fit.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: How many times has that actually happened that they're telling another coach about a player?
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it happens a lot.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: A lot.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Especially,
40:31
SPEAKER_01: you know,
40:32
SPEAKER_01: whenever you have a school like Messiah,
40:34
SPEAKER_01: like, hey, I don't think that kid's a great Messiah fit.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: But so-and-so, like, you should definitely check them out, right?
40:40
SPEAKER_01: They want engineering skills.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: You're a great engineering school.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: You should look into this kid.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: And certainly the coaches, all the Emory staff, for example, right?
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Like Coach Hickson and I will be like, hey, did you watch this kid this summer?
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I saw him at Substance & Substance event.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Hey, what'd you think of him?
40:57
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get to see him, but I'm interested, right?
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Like those conversations happen all the time.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a great reminder of like, you never know who's watching.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: It might not be the actual school that recruits you,
41:10
SPEAKER_01: but they might tell their best friend about you.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And that might open up a lot of doors that you never really thought of.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that is, yeah,
41:19
SPEAKER_01: just that constant reminder of like,
41:22
SPEAKER_01: just always putting your best foot forward regardless of,
41:24
SPEAKER_01: you know,
41:25
SPEAKER_01: if a coach calls you who you're not interested in their school,
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Have a respectful conversation.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: Hey, this is just not what I'm looking for.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm actually looking for.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And leave it at that.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, like you said, you never know where conversations are going to go.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: We're super, super connected group.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: There's only so many college coaching jobs in the country.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: And odds are we know somebody who knows somebody if we're trying to get to someone.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And let's say a kid from Georgia doesn't want to go to Emory because it's too close to home.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden,
41:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
41:57
SPEAKER_00: you were recruiting him down there,
41:59
SPEAKER_00: but now all of a sudden you're up in Pennsylvania at a different school.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: It's like that type of move happens all the time.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think just keeping those doors open,
42:06
SPEAKER_00: like you said,
42:08
SPEAKER_00: be respectful if there's interest and a coach is taking time out of their day
42:12
SPEAKER_00: to offer you or invite you to camp for something.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Don't underestimate how much that can come back to help you in a different way down the road.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: You just don't know.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had a guy that we recruited this year.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: I met him working a random camp in Dallas and his dad happened to live in Atlanta for a while.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: This was right before I left Emory.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: He lived in Atlanta for a while and so we just started talking about Emory
42:37
SPEAKER_01: and Atlanta and the kid came out to our elite camp and Emory wasn't the right fit
42:44
SPEAKER_01: for him academically,
42:46
SPEAKER_01: but then over that summer he got baptized and I got the job up here and I was like,
42:50
SPEAKER_01: hey, I think Messiah could actually be a great fit for you.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: So he came up,
42:54
SPEAKER_01: he visited,
42:55
SPEAKER_01: played with our guys, ended up getting an NAIA offer and so we didn't get him.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we had a kid from Dallas on campus because he came to Emory's camp.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I coached him down there and he comes up here and goes through a full visit with us.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just never know what that's going to look like.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's also a reminder for us coaches too, right?
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Like how we act at events that we work,
43:18
SPEAKER_01: how we act when we're recruiting,
43:19
SPEAKER_01: how we present ourselves,
43:20
SPEAKER_01: the conversations we have are just as important as the players, right?
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I think there's a lot of times where that responsibility where I go,
43:28
SPEAKER_01: the players have to do this.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah,
43:30
SPEAKER_01: we also have to do that too,
43:32
SPEAKER_01: to be respected within the profession and to be connected and well-known.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're genuine to who you are and feel that you care about people
43:40
SPEAKER_01: and you're not transactional,
43:42
SPEAKER_01: I think you'll have a lot of success building those relationships.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: One more nuts and bolts question.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: Troy, I saw you asked a question in there, or I guess it was more of a statement.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a question?
43:56
SPEAKER_00: If you do, feel free to ask that.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: We'll probably go for another five, 10 minutes here, so make sure to get that in.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: I think there was, actually, I think there's a question in there.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: What makes your school attractive to a national recruiting?
44:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're seeing that.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: That is not going through for me.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go for it.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Troy, I think what makes Messiah...
44:21
SPEAKER_01: Attractive number one,
44:22
SPEAKER_01: like we mentioned before,
44:23
SPEAKER_01: it's a Christian school, pretty intentional Christian college.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: So if that's what you're looking for, people are typically willing to travel for that, right?
44:31
SPEAKER_01: If it checks those boxes.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: We also have the Harrisburg International Airport is like 20 minutes from campus,
44:36
SPEAKER_01: maybe 25 with a little bit of traffic.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: And so guys are able to travel pretty seamlessly in and out of here.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, you can have a hour flight or a two-hour car ride and it's...
44:48
SPEAKER_01: The travel is pretty similar in terms of your experience and your ease to get there.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: And so being that we're so close to that airport,
44:55
SPEAKER_01: we're able to get some guys that are willing to fly in.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
45:02
SPEAKER_01: I've found as we've recruited it that way,
45:05
SPEAKER_01: we're not at a place right now necessarily where we're going to be able
45:08
SPEAKER_01: to beat out 10 different schools in the Mid-Atlantic because there's
45:11
SPEAKER_01: so many Division III schools here.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a challenge, but we got two kids coming in from Tampa, Florida this year.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Both of them had some other interests from schools,
45:23
SPEAKER_01: but they didn't take 10 visits each and do all the things.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: It was just a little less competitive for just as good of a player
45:30
SPEAKER_01: because there's no Division III schools in Florida.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I think more Division III's are starting to make their way down there,
45:35
SPEAKER_01: but just Yeah, like I said, the fit for us, you guys are willing to travel for it.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: And then the ease of travel with the airport so close to campus really helps with that too.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a big, that's a big thing.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: What about,
45:50
SPEAKER_00: I think,
45:51
SPEAKER_00: two other common points, especially right now, pre-reads, are you guys doing that?
45:55
SPEAKER_00: And what is the Messiah pre-read process look like?
45:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we can.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: We can certainly do that with admissions.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: We don't, we didn't do any this past year in terms of, we just didn't feel like we needed to.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Felt like we had guys that we know could get into school without an official pre-read.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: I know some places do.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: Do likely letters.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: That looks a lot of different ways at a lot of different schools.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: But for us,
46:19
SPEAKER_01: I really lean on myself and our staff in terms of evaluating transcripts
46:22
SPEAKER_01: and test scores.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: And I still encourage everyone to take the test.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Most schools are test optional.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's a tendency for guys to not do it.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, well, it can only help you.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: If you don't do well in the test, just don't submit it.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: And then...
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just move on to a softball.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: But if it can help you get a better academic scholarship,
46:41
SPEAKER_01: get you more merit money,
46:42
SPEAKER_01: whatever the case may be,
46:43
SPEAKER_01: get you into an honors program that you can get a scholarship for, I'd say do it.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: Take the time.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: It's one Saturday.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: Give it a shot.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: See where you land.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're like, oh, I can raise my scores.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: My experience at Waynesburg,
46:57
SPEAKER_01: I took the SAT a second time,
46:59
SPEAKER_01: raised my score by 50 points,
47:01
SPEAKER_01: and it jumped me into another Another bracket for the merit money
47:05
SPEAKER_01: and got me whatever it was, more dollars per year.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, that was an easy three hours of my time well spent, right?
47:13
SPEAKER_01: So I think I encourage guys to take the test scores, but I have...
47:18
SPEAKER_01: I've been able to build...
47:19
SPEAKER_01: One of my priorities whenever I first got hired was
47:21
SPEAKER_01: to build really good relationships with admissions in terms of...
47:25
SPEAKER_01: They don't help us because we're the basketball team or anything,
47:29
SPEAKER_01: but their willingness to have conversations with me about, hey, this kid...
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Looks pretty good or this kid might need to do something that can help them
47:40
SPEAKER_01: or we're going to wait for first semester grades or whatever the deal is,
47:43
SPEAKER_01: we're able to have those conversations with admissions that can really help me
47:46
SPEAKER_01: with my process with players as we recruit them.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: And so we do have, you can get official pre-reads, you can do financial aid estimates too.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: That'll kind of get you a ballpark number,
48:01
SPEAKER_01: but we don't necessarily have to Have a full-on pre-read process,
48:05
SPEAKER_01: if that makes sense.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a couple of main takeaways in there I just want to highlight for recruits.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, as your personal example...
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Shows that little bump,
48:16
SPEAKER_00: whether it's on a test or in the classroom with your GPA can make a huge difference
48:21
SPEAKER_00: in terms of cost of college and just keeping things down there.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is that coaches and the admissions offices at most D3 schools are talking.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: And so don't assume that just because you're a basketball player,
48:34
SPEAKER_00: soccer player,
48:34
SPEAKER_00: football player,
48:35
SPEAKER_00: whatever it is that you are,
48:36
SPEAKER_00: you can cruise once you're admitted because they're still going to want to look,
48:42
SPEAKER_00: you know, they check.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: And they want to see that you didn't just like completely drop off.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: You know,
48:50
SPEAKER_00: and we had one instance,
48:53
SPEAKER_00: we were helping a family because their son had gotten in,
48:58
SPEAKER_00: but then got a concussion during the season and their grades looked horrible
49:04
SPEAKER_00: that fall semester.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And the school...
49:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, ended up putting them on the waitlist.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: They revoked the admission and put them on the waitlist.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, obviously that's out of his control.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: And they ended up figuring it out and he was able to get admitted.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: But it just goes to show that there's,
49:23
SPEAKER_00: you know,
49:23
SPEAKER_00: there is still some variability there and trying to make sure
49:26
SPEAKER_00: That you lock things down as much as you can with grades
49:30
SPEAKER_00: because those conversations are happening and they do want to check.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And there's no free pass for athletes.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: No, there's not.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, it's kind of like the academic side of things too.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: If anything,
49:41
SPEAKER_01: there might be even a little bit more of a microscope on you
49:43
SPEAKER_01: because now admissions has someone to contact about.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: A professor has somebody that they can go to.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And that's probably a good thing because then we're able to,
49:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Manage the process,
49:54
SPEAKER_01: however,
49:54
SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
49:56
SPEAKER_01: there is somebody that they can follow up with that might even make it more of
50:00
SPEAKER_01: a microscope that you're under.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: I just, one last plug for questions here.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Troy, and good catch from Coach here.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: I missed that question in there.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: I think final question for you from my end is just,
50:16
SPEAKER_00: if you could go back and give yourself advice at age 17 or 18, what would you say?
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, man.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I've learned so much about the world of basketball in terms
50:36
SPEAKER_01: of it is not black and white.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: There are guys who could be playing at Division I who are playing Division III.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: There's guys who are on Division I rosters that I'm like, I don't know that I would recruit.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: There's so...
50:49
SPEAKER_01: It just is... Everybody's path is different.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I would encourage myself and I would encourage others to...
50:58
SPEAKER_01: It goes back to where we started.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: What experience are you looking for?
51:01
SPEAKER_01: What do you want?
51:02
SPEAKER_01: And then find ways to...
51:06
SPEAKER_01: Create those opportunities to open those doors,
51:07
SPEAKER_01: to play in front of those coaches, to meet those people, to go to that one place.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: It's just not a straight line for everybody.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm a pretty black and white person at times.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I learned from Coach Zimmerman the most is after my first season
51:26
SPEAKER_01: with him as his assistant,
51:29
SPEAKER_01: we had our end-of-the-year meeting and we're talking about Just talking
51:33
SPEAKER_01: about feedback and how we can improve and how I can get better.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: He made a comment like,
51:37
SPEAKER_01: you could write a book on coaching 101,
51:40
SPEAKER_01: but there's so much feel that goes into becoming a head coach.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: It's not just, well,
51:45
SPEAKER_01: this is how it should be done,
51:45
SPEAKER_01: this is how it should be done, this is how it should be done.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: You've got to make decisions on the fly in moments with different contexts
51:52
SPEAKER_01: than maybe what's ideal.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: So you've got to be flexible and willing to make those decisions.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah,
52:00
SPEAKER_01: I would,
52:01
SPEAKER_01: that would be my biggest advice is like, what experience are you looking for?
52:06
SPEAKER_01: What do you want?
52:06
SPEAKER_01: As we recruit guys now who have Division 2 interests, like, yeah, that's awesome.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: That just tells me you want to be the best player you can be, right?
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I want to go, I want to play a Division 2 school or Division 1 school.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: You're telling me you want to be the best player you can be and we can do that
52:21
SPEAKER_01: for you here, right?
52:22
SPEAKER_01: And so not...
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Don't let a Roman numeral define you and define who you are as a player.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: A 3, a 2, a 1, it doesn't matter.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Basketball is basketball.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: And we've seen it,
52:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
52:36
SPEAKER_01: as guys like yourself and Bob Coleman and Snyders and Ryan Scott and all the others
52:40
SPEAKER_01: that I'm not off the top of my head saying,
52:44
SPEAKER_01: like, the Division 3 has gotten so much publicity through that.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's just revealed the level of player that plays at this level.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: And so I was, as a player, I was chasing Division 2, Division 2, Division 2.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: And I would look back on it.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I ended up in a roundabout way with Waynesburg and how my recruiting process went.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: I found myself exactly where I needed to be.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: So I would just encourage guys,
53:11
SPEAKER_00: don't let a Roman numeral define
53:12
SPEAKER_01: you.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: Find what is the experience you and your family are looking for and
53:20
SPEAKER_01: just fully commit to that.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Really well said.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: And we do,
53:25
SPEAKER_00: while you were answering that one,
53:26
SPEAKER_00: another question came in, which actually I think is going to be a good one for you.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: At 6'4", you probably played some big in high school.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: And their question from Emily here is,
53:39
SPEAKER_00: what advice could you offer to a kid who's been placed as a big,
53:42
SPEAKER_00: maybe due to height, but will likely play guard in college?
53:45
SPEAKER_00: What can they do to prepare for that, even if they're taking post-reps in high school practice?
53:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so our guy from Charlotte, actually, he played at the 4 and 5 this year.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: He's a 6'3 wing.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: We recruited him as a wing shooting guard.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: He played as a big in their system this year, his senior year.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: And I would say,
54:06
SPEAKER_01: understand that there can be a ton of value in that in terms
54:10
SPEAKER_01: of you're probably going to learn a totally new skill set, right?
54:12
SPEAKER_01: If you're being moved into a new position because it's what's best for the team,
54:17
SPEAKER_01: there can be...
54:19
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a negative.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: I think so many people look at it as that.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a negative.
54:24
SPEAKER_01: You can learn post moves.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: We run a lot of stuff where we post our wings at Messiah.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: So if I see a guy,
54:31
SPEAKER_01: they have that experience in high school and then they go play in AAU and I And
54:34
SPEAKER_01: if I see a wing that can post up and has footwork in the post,
54:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hey,
54:36
SPEAKER_01: that's a kid that I might need to watch some more because that's something
54:41
SPEAKER_01: that we do, right?
54:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I would say look at the positives in terms of you're going
54:45
SPEAKER_01: to learn totally new skills by getting outside of your comfort zone to do that.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: The other part of that is certainly have conversations with the coach and say,
54:56
SPEAKER_01: What does this look like for me?
54:58
SPEAKER_01: This is my skill set.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: How can we continue to grow me as a player?
55:02
SPEAKER_01: If it means doing this for the team, absolutely, let's do it.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: How do you see this helping me in college?
55:11
SPEAKER_01: Basically, how can I make the most of the situation?
55:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's part of coaching too,
55:17
SPEAKER_01: is you have to make decisions that are best for the team and having Guys
55:22
SPEAKER_01: who understand that is extremely valuable.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: And I would say it's only going to make this person's experience better
55:30
SPEAKER_01: because it would show, hey, I'm willing to be flexible.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm willing to do what it takes for this team.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm learning a new skill set, all this.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: And then, obviously, continuing to improve your shooting, your ball handling, all that stuff.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: If you have a wing skill set and you learn to play as a quote-unquote big or
55:49
SPEAKER_01: a forward,
55:49
SPEAKER_01: like, I would say that's going to make you pretty dynamic if you can do it well.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: And you can always go out and get,
55:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
55:58
SPEAKER_00: you can do extra work shooting,
56:00
SPEAKER_00: you can do extra work ball handling,
56:01
SPEAKER_00: but I do think,
56:02
SPEAKER_00: as you're saying,
56:03
SPEAKER_00: like getting game reps on finishing two around the rim and learning how to read
56:08
SPEAKER_00: the ball coming off as opposed to creating second chances and And all those things,
56:14
SPEAKER_00: yeah.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: Two, if you get a mismatch in a game with a smaller guard,
56:16
SPEAKER_00: like you're saying, you can run sets to post up if they have that skill set.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: The other thing I would say to that, Carl, is...
56:25
SPEAKER_01: Anytime I ask guys for film,
56:27
SPEAKER_01: I always say like,
56:28
SPEAKER_01: hey, can you send me your highlights and can you send me a full game film?
56:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'll say like, I don't want the game where you scored the most.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you're this prolific scorer, then yes, I need to see that.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: But I always say I want the game that shows you best as a player.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: That you can demonstrate who you are as a player,
56:46
SPEAKER_01: whether you had 20 points,
56:47
SPEAKER_01: 15 points, 10, 6 rebounds, 8, whatever that looks like for you.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: Who are you as a basketball player?
56:53
SPEAKER_01: And what film shows that?
56:54
SPEAKER_01: So when you're making a highlight tape,
56:56
SPEAKER_01: You can kind of curate that and pull clips and organize it in a way that shows
57:01
SPEAKER_01: who you think you are best as a basketball player, right?
57:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the beauty of highlights.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: And then through further conversations,
57:08
SPEAKER_01: you can talk to your coach about like, hey, this is my skill set.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: This is what I do well.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: This is who I am as a player.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: I also have the experience in doing this and this is how it helped me grow.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: And I've learned so much this year, right?
57:20
SPEAKER_01: You can make that such a positive in terms of talking to a college coach versus...
57:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm a three and D shooter.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: I never had any other experiences.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, I actually can do this.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: I can do this.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: I can post up.
57:34
SPEAKER_01: I can guard.
57:34
SPEAKER_01: I've learned how to guard and be more physical on the inside and the interior.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: I've learned rebounding angles.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: Like you mentioned, there's so much that you can take away from that.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't,
57:44
SPEAKER_01: I would encourage you do not get caught up in a place like,
57:47
SPEAKER_01: oh, this is going to kill my recruiting.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: No, this is going to help me grow as a player.
57:53
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah,
57:54
SPEAKER_01: you know,
57:54
SPEAKER_01: whatever conversations you have to have with your coach in terms of why or what,
57:59
SPEAKER_01: you know, what that looks like, that's a totally different story.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: But I would encourage, like, there can be a lot of good that comes from that.
58:05
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Spend it,
58:07
SPEAKER_00: stay positive, and,
58:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
58:09
SPEAKER_00: like you said,
58:10
SPEAKER_00: present it in a way that shows your strengths,
58:12
SPEAKER_00: not like, oh,
58:13
SPEAKER_00: this is, you know, putting me in a hole that I'm not going to be able to get out of.
58:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, great questions from the chat here.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: And, Coach, thanks for taking the time tonight.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: Definitely want to be mindful on a Sunday to let you get some rest and get started for the week.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate
58:32
SPEAKER_01: you reaching out and having me on.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: Look forward to seeing you.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: I know it feels like we see each other once or twice every season.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I look forward to the next time that we can see you in person.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: That'll be great.
58:45
SPEAKER_00: And make sure to tune in to some Messiah Hoops this year.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Check out what they're doing.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: You know,
58:51
SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah,
58:52
SPEAKER_00: a program that is going to,
58:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
58:56
SPEAKER_00: I've got a big class coming in and going to be exciting to see where you guys,
59:00
SPEAKER_00: where you guys finish this year.
59:01
SPEAKER_00: So, definitely.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: This has been another live Q&A.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: Let us know who you want us to talk to next.
59:10
SPEAKER_00: And thanks again, Coach Flegel.
59:12
SPEAKER_02: You got it.
59:13
SPEAKER_02: All right.
59:14
SPEAKER_02: Talk soon.