Latest / The Torin Talks Podcast / Torin Talks Stories with BritishSimerTime

Transcript

Torin Talks Stories with BritishSimerTime · The Torin Talks Podcast

• 0:00
  From topics A to Z by a 1, 2, 3, you'll always be fun to me.
• 0:06
  Your hyperfocus will never be mocked.
• 0:09
  So let's deep dive on Torrin Talks.
• 0:17
  Hello, and welcome to Torrin Talks podcast
• 0:19
  where hyperfocuses are exactly enough and never too much.
• 0:23
  Today, we are talking to British Cymertime.
• 0:26
  I'm so excited.
• 0:28
  Suze is a fantastic and what I would call chaotic streamer,
• 0:31
  but very genuine to watch.
• 0:33
  And she's very lovely and so much fun.
• 0:36
  You're never not going to laugh in there.
• 0:39
  She plays a number of games in Twitch
• 0:42
  and I would say a number of genres as well.
• 0:44
  A lot of testing simulation games,
• 0:47
  some like RPG kind of story games as well.
• 0:49
  It's really cool and much, much more,
• 0:52
  which is what we're going to dig into today.
• 0:54
  I'm so excited. Yay.
• 0:57
  So Suze, my first question for everybody,
• 1:00
  just how are you doing?
• 1:01
  How are streams going?
• 1:02
  How's life?
• 1:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07
  Is that a fair answer?
• 1:09
  I feel like that's a fair answer.
• 1:10
  Life is lifing.
• 1:11
  Yeah, no.
• 1:13
  Do you know what?
• 1:14
  I was literally talking about this the other day,
• 1:15
  that streams are always the same.
• 1:16
  Like I have my little community that are awesome
• 1:18
  and I love them and they're great.
• 1:20
  I am just so flaky at the moment on Twitch.
• 1:22
  And it's not because like I don't want to do it.
• 1:23
  It's just because the pressing the button
• 1:26
  has just got harder and I don't know why.
• 1:28
  Like when I'm live, I'm the happiest person ever.
• 1:30
  And then it's like, yeah,
• 1:32
  but what if I just don't do it for two weeks?
• 1:33
  So yeah, streams are great when I'm there,
• 1:36
  but I do forget to show up.
• 1:38
  So yeah, I think that's probably a fair answer.
• 1:41
  Like, because I totally feel you.
• 1:43
  It's what I call the activation energy to do it
• 1:47
  is sometimes so fucking high.
• 1:50
  It is so high.
• 1:51
  And like, it's not like,
• 1:53
  I was talking to someone else about this.
• 1:54
  It's not like putting on a face or anything.
• 1:57
  I mean, I'm sure there's stuff you don't tell us,
• 1:58
  which please don't.
• 1:59
  That would be weird.
• 2:00
  Be safe out there on the internet, y'all.
• 2:02
  But like that just feeling of, do I look okay?
• 2:08
  Not like great, but like, do I have a giant zit
• 2:11
  just hanging out right here?
• 2:12
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13
  And like, do I feel like I can laugh today?
• 2:15
  Like, oh, there's just not as a performance,
• 2:18
  but a little bit of,
• 2:21
  there's a certain thing you can't just,
• 2:22
  well, you can get on stream and just cry your eyes out,
• 2:24
  but that might be a little weird
• 2:26
  and people may not want to engage in that.
• 2:27
  And if they do, you might want to question
• 2:29
  what kind of people they are.
• 2:30
  I don't know.
• 2:32
  I think we've both cried on stream,
• 2:33
  so we might want to be careful visually.
• 2:35
  No, no, no, the whole time.
• 2:35
  Like, just the whole depressive, like, everybody.
• 2:38
  I am definitely crying on stream.
• 2:41
  Just to be clear.
• 2:44
  Did you see any of my Spiritfarer game?
• 2:47
  I mean-
• 2:48
  There you go.
• 2:50
  I love how you're like,
• 2:51
  yeah, throwback to Spiritfarer,
• 2:52
  recent horizon, like episode intro.
• 2:56
  You cried before I even got there.
• 2:58
  You were like, yeah, the count is on five.
• 2:59
  And I was like, you've been live for 20 minutes.
• 3:02
  What the hell have you been doing?
• 3:04
  I can't-
• 3:05
  I mean, I get it.
• 3:07
  I played that game and literally all I played
• 3:09
  was the intro scene and was like,
• 3:11
  well, not today, thank you, and closed the game.
• 3:14
  Not today, single, I would like to stay home.
• 3:17
  Thank you, I don't have the,
• 3:18
  I haven't hydrated enough, I didn't prep.
• 3:20
  Like, yeah, no, crying on stream.
• 3:23
  And also I think the thing with me
• 3:25
  that I've always noticed is,
• 3:27
  like, it's like a lesson I refuse to learn
• 3:30
  is that I think I have to be a certain way.
• 3:34
  Like, I'm entertaining and I'm fun
• 3:35
  and I can't be anything else.
• 3:37
  But like, nobody that I know within my community
• 3:41
  has that expectation of me.
• 3:42
  Like, I'm really lucky no one's ever come in
• 3:44
  and be like, oh, you seem sad today or tired today.
• 3:46
  Because they're just like,
• 3:47
  whatever mood you're in, Suze, we're here.
• 3:49
  Like, if you need us to cheer you up,
• 3:51
  if you're gonna cheer up, like, whatever it is.
• 3:53
  And like, there's no expectation from them.
• 3:55
  The only expectation is from me.
• 3:56
  But it's like five years of streaming
• 3:58
  and I still haven't learned that.
• 4:00
  Like, it's just the worst thing.
• 4:03
  Yeah, yeah, just right, yeah, yeah.
• 4:05
  Sorry, just pulling you right out there.
• 4:07
  Hi, everyone, he was a Twitch streamer
• 4:09
  who just said that, you know what I'm talking about,
• 4:11
  because we're all the same.
• 4:12
  Yeah, it all started in COVID, we all know it.
• 4:15
  Yeah.
• 4:16
  Oh my God, that's so funny though.
• 4:17
  I think it's the same thing.
• 4:19
  And I used to have this thing
• 4:20
  and I think a lot of people have it.
• 4:21
  It's like, it's sort of to me that thing of,
• 4:23
  you remember like, when you were a lot younger,
• 4:26
  I'm old now, you used to be like,
• 4:28
  oh, I'm only fun when I'm drunk.
• 4:30
  Like on nights out, you would never be sober
• 4:33
  because you were like, well, everyone likes drunk me.
• 4:35
  And it's like, I have the same energy for stream sometimes.
• 4:37
  And like, oh, people only like me when I'm filthy
• 4:39
  and funny and laughing and silly.
• 4:41
  And it's like, no, we just like you.
• 4:45
  And like, I'm saying this now to you
• 4:46
  as though I believe it, I don't.
• 4:48
  But like, that's what they would say to me.
• 4:49
  Like, if my community were there and I was like,
• 4:51
  I'm having a bad day, I didn't go live.
• 4:52
  They'd be like, why the hell not?
• 4:53
  Like, we could have been nice to you.
• 4:55
  We could have cheered you up.
• 4:56
  You'd have been laughing in 20 minutes.
• 4:58
  Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, I've been put.
• 5:00
  It's not necessarily hard to believe.
• 5:02
  And especially,
• 5:03
  because we've been on Twitch for the same amount of time.
• 5:05
  It's honestly hard in that way,
• 5:09
  because then you're like, well, then what do I do?
• 5:12
  Like, it's hard to have a direction then too, you know?
• 5:14
  And it's not that we don't believe them, because we do.
• 5:18
  Obviously they keep showing up for a fricking reason, right?
• 5:21
  But it's hard for me to cross that barrier of hearing it,
• 5:26
  understanding they're not lying, and then believe it.
• 5:29
  And then somehow change and act accordingly to it.
• 5:34
  Yeah, it's like the longevity of the belief.
• 5:36
  Like, you can end a stream believing it,
• 5:38
  and you're like, I'm so glad I went live today.
• 5:39
  They so cheered me up.
• 5:41
  Like, oh my God, why do I ever not go live?
• 5:43
  This is great.
• 5:44
  And then you sleep and all of that learning
• 5:46
  just went straight out of your brain
• 5:48
  and you're like, who am I?
• 5:50
  Why can't I possibly go live?
• 5:52
  Like, oh my God, they're gonna hate me today.
• 5:54
  And it's like, no, no.
• 5:55
  But yeah, for like, whoa, six hours, you learn it.
• 5:59
  Like, you know, for those glorious six hours,
• 6:03
  you're like, yeah, life's good, and then no.
• 6:06
  But that's true with everything in life.
• 6:08
  That's like when you go to work and they're like,
• 6:09
  yeah, you did a really good job today.
• 6:10
  And you're like, yeah, you know what?
• 6:11
  I did do a really good job today.
• 6:12
  And then you wake up the next morning and you're like,
• 6:15
  who am I?
• 6:16
  I think I can do this.
• 6:18
  The worst person ever.
• 6:20
  Oh my gosh, yes.
• 6:21
  Oh my God, my boss sent me a DM.
• 6:23
  He's definitely gonna fire me today.
• 6:25
  Like, 100%.
• 6:26
  Oh no.
• 6:28
  Yeah, I don't think it's like stream exclusive,
• 6:31
  but I think stream puts extra pressure on it,
• 6:33
  especially because we're surrounded by people
• 6:35
  who are very good at what they do.
• 6:36
  And you can't help but compare yourself.
• 6:39
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 6:39
  So even our friends that are really good friends,
• 6:42
  you know, you, like Tar, who has been featured
• 6:45
  or will be featured,
• 6:46
  hey, I don't know what order they're going in.
• 6:50
  I watch her streams and I'm like,
• 6:52
  well, I'll never do that.
• 6:53
  And it's like, but it's not,
• 6:55
  it's not a competition last time I checked,
• 6:57
  but like your brain tells you it is.
• 6:59
  Like that, as I like to call my dick brain,
• 7:02
  just 100% like, that's what we call my, right.
• 7:07
  So this is-
• 7:08
  You know I'm going to ask,
• 7:09
  please expand upon dick brain, thank you.
• 7:12
  Okay.
• 7:13
  So basically I've been told it's really unhealthy
• 7:16
  by the way to do this.
• 7:17
  So I'm not giving this as advice to anyone,
• 7:19
  but I learned a long time ago
• 7:20
  that the best way for me to kind of like
• 7:23
  deal with the negative shit and the voice in your head
• 7:26
  that's like, you're not going to know
• 7:26
  if everyone hates you, blah, blah, blah,
• 7:28
  is to kind of give it a bit of a persona
• 7:30
  that it is my dick brain.
• 7:31
  Like, I don't see it as a separate person to me,
• 7:34
  but it is a part of my brain that is the dick brain.
• 7:36
  So when I'm having a bad day,
• 7:37
  it's not that I'm having a bad day,
• 7:39
  it's just that dick brain's flaring up.
• 7:41
  Do you know what I mean?
• 7:42
  It's like, it gives me the separation I need
• 7:46
  to be able to like step away
• 7:49
  and analyze it a bit more logically,
• 7:51
  rather than just being like, this is real.
• 7:53
  I'm like, well, no, it's just dick brain being dick brain.
• 7:55
  And I still get caught up in dick brain
• 7:57
  and it's still 100% can overwhelm my mood
• 8:00
  and change everything.
• 8:01
  But like when I'm able to,
• 8:03
  it is a lot easier to be like,
• 8:04
  nope, that's what dick brain says,
• 8:05
  but that doesn't mean it's true or, you know.
• 8:08
  And also just to talk to other people about it,
• 8:09
  like it makes it a bit more fun than to be like,
• 8:12
  yeah guys, my depression's kicking my ass today.
• 8:14
  To be like, I'm having a dick brain day.
• 8:16
  Other people are like, yeah, fucking dick brain.
• 8:17
  We hate dick brain.
• 8:18
  Not sooze, we hate that part of you.
• 8:20
  Or it's like this thing that we can all be
• 8:23
  cohesively angry at together
• 8:25
  without feeling like it's some failure on my part, I guess.
• 8:28
  But yeah, also a lot of psychologists
• 8:30
  really say you should not do that
• 8:31
  because it's really bad for you
• 8:32
  to personify the negative thoughts in your head.
• 8:35
  So you know what works for one person
• 8:37
  doesn't work for everyone else.
• 8:38
  Like everything else.
• 8:39
  And I'm just like, okay, you can't, instructions unclear.
• 8:43
  I'm so sorry.
• 8:44
  But now you need to like,
• 8:44
  it's gotta be one or everything.
• 8:45
  And they're like, Torrin, that might be the problem.
• 8:48
  And I'm like, no.
• 8:49
  No, so, okay, so here's my confusion during the dick brain.
• 8:55
  You know, I got it at the end,
• 8:56
  but I admit I was confused in the beginning
• 8:58
  because I was like, okay, now wait,
• 9:00
  dick as in like that person's a jerk or like, yeah.
• 9:06
  No, my horny brain is like the whole of it.
• 9:08
  The horny brain is not a bad thing.
• 9:09
  Like we like the horny brain, like bring me the smut brain.
• 9:13
  Although I was talking about this the other day, right?
• 9:15
  And this, I'm about to tell you to keep this secret
• 9:18
  while we're recording live to go to podcast.
• 9:20
  But right, so.
• 9:20
  There we go, Torrin, you see your hands clapping, got it.
• 9:24
  Like I, everyone knows I read smut, okay?
• 9:26
  It's my life.
• 9:27
  I'm not shy about it.
• 9:28
  I'm open about it.
• 9:29
  On your stream.
• 9:30
  Yeah.
• 9:31
  But I've stopped reading the sex scenes.
• 9:34
  I read the buildup to the sex scenes.
• 9:36
  I read all the angst and the anticipation
• 9:39
  and the, are they, are they not?
• 9:40
  When are they going to do it?
• 9:41
  And then when it actually gets to the sex, I'm like, meh.
• 9:47
  Now I don't know whether it's because porn exists.
• 9:50
  So, you know, why have words when you can have visuals?
• 9:54
  But I used to read the smut
• 9:56
  and I used to be quite okay with reading the smut,
• 9:58
  but now I'm just a bit like, meh.
• 10:00
  Okay.
• 10:01
  Maybe it's just because I'm in shitter books
• 10:02
  and the sex scenes.
• 10:03
  Well, and I was going to say, so like, this was,
• 10:05
  okay, random, random question.
• 10:07
  This was my problem with things like 50 Shades of Grey.
• 10:11
  Not because, yeah, I know.
• 10:12
  But hold on.
• 10:13
  It's, it's not for what you think.
• 10:15
  I promise.
• 10:15
  It's because of word usage.
• 10:18
  Like it would be the same word over and over and over again.
• 10:22
  Like, and she whispered, I don't know what it was.
• 10:25
  It was a long time ago, but like,
• 10:26
  it wasn't due to the content though.
• 10:28
  It should have been because red flags,
• 10:30
  but also it was just because the word usage
• 10:32
  was like a fifth grader level?
• 10:34
  Fourth grade level?
• 10:35
  Yeah, yes.
• 10:36
  I mean.
• 10:37
  And so I'm wondering, like, is that maybe,
• 10:39
  like, there's only so many ways to describe a dick.
• 10:42
  You know what I mean?
• 10:43
  Yeah.
• 10:44
  And I will say that I am a writer,
• 10:46
  but I'm not a published writer.
• 10:47
  I'm not a qualified writer.
• 10:49
  Nobody edits my work,
• 10:51
  but it's also just shit writing in that book.
• 10:54
  So it surprised me.
• 10:56
  Like, I am not lying.
• 10:57
  I got three chapters in a DNF
• 10:58
  because that writing style was,
• 11:00
  I didn't actually know if they'd had an editor.
• 11:03
  And I'm really harshly critical on books.
• 11:05
  Like, if I read a book that's published,
• 11:07
  even on Kindle, which I know could be self-published,
• 11:10
  and there's like more than five typos
• 11:11
  in the first three chapters, I'm out.
• 11:13
  Because like, just get someone to edit your work.
• 11:16
  I totally love it,
• 11:17
  because I absolutely can agree with this.
• 11:19
  And like, especially as the flip side
• 11:22
  of an audio book narrator, it's-
• 11:25
  Yeah.
• 11:26
  Some things get real difficult.
• 11:27
  And by the way, I love audio book narrating.
• 11:30
  I love authors.
• 11:31
  Please do not take this in any other way,
• 11:32
  except for me to say.
• 11:34
  We're both gonna be like counsels.
• 11:37
  Yeah, we're counsels now.
• 11:39
  No authors are ever gonna work with me.
• 11:40
  No, but like, there was one author,
• 11:43
  and I do love her to death,
• 11:45
  but one paragraph was a full run-on sentence.
• 11:49
  A whole paragraph.
• 11:50
  There was no punctuation.
• 11:51
  Let's breathe.
• 11:52
  I know.
• 11:53
  And like, and as a narrator,
• 11:54
  then I had to add like my own,
• 11:56
  and then try to make it interesting
• 11:57
  for someone to listen to.
• 11:59
  So I'm just like, okay, personal challenge.
• 12:01
  But at the end, I'm also like, I'm so tired.
• 12:03
  And so there's absolutely something to be said for that.
• 12:07
  100%.
• 12:07
  Yeah.
• 12:08
  Yeah, and like, I am overly critical.
• 12:10
  And then at the same time,
• 12:11
  I'll read absolute shit books.
• 12:14
  But I have like, I like popcorn books.
• 12:17
  So I read books in a day, right?
• 12:20
  Or like, I read, literally last night, I read two books.
• 12:24
  So I read fast.
• 12:25
  So I like books that don't have a lot of substance for that.
• 12:28
  And then I like books with substance
• 12:30
  for when I want to read slow.
• 12:32
  And like, those are two different people in my head.
• 12:34
  So I will read books that are shitly written and bad.
• 12:38
  No, I'll read books that the plot
• 12:39
  doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense.
• 12:41
  And you know, they fudge the storyline a little bit.
• 12:44
  You know, like these two people met and hated each other.
• 12:46
  And then three seconds later, they're banging in the closet.
• 12:48
  Like, I'll read them.
• 12:49
  Like, you don't, I don't need character development.
• 12:51
  It's absolutely fine.
• 12:52
  But like, if there's typos, I DNS.
• 12:55
  Like, I'm so weird.
• 12:57
  Yeah, you didn't develop your plot.
• 12:58
  Also, I'd just like to point out
• 12:59
  to everyone listening to the podcast,
• 13:00
  my hyperfixation is not smart.
• 13:02
  That is not what this is about.
• 13:05
  That wasn't what I was invited to talk about,
• 13:07
  but oh boy, could I.
• 13:10
  Literally, I don't even care if we talk about
• 13:12
  anything I thought about talking about.
• 13:14
  No, like, I love this though, because honestly,
• 13:19
  I think I just really appreciate this, number one,
• 13:23
  because you know what you like and what you don't,
• 13:26
  which I think is a very hard thing
• 13:27
  for a lot of people to do.
• 13:29
  I'm raising my hand.
• 13:30
  I know people can't see it,
• 13:30
  except for if you're watching YouTube version,
• 13:32
  but I personally feel almost like a personal failure
• 13:35
  if I don't finish reading a book.
• 13:38
  Like, I will make myself do it.
• 13:41
  And it's so stupid.
• 13:42
  I don't have time for this shit.
• 13:43
  Why do I keep doing this to myself?
• 13:45
  Like, I will make myself do it,
• 13:48
  because I'm like, maybe it gets better later.
• 13:50
  Yeah.
• 13:51
  You're just let down.
• 13:52
  You're like, oh no, that was bad.
• 13:55
  That used to be me.
• 13:56
  If I started a book, I'd finish a book.
• 13:57
  If I started a series, I'd finish a series,
• 13:59
  even if I hated the series.
• 14:00
  And that can be, like, some of these series now
• 14:02
  are like 10 books long,
• 14:03
  where you are committing to life.
• 14:05
  And then, I don't want to say it's just a maturity thing,
• 14:07
  because I 100% am still an immature bitch,
• 14:09
  but at some point, I realized that I was actively valuing
• 14:14
  that author's time over my own.
• 14:17
  And I was like, saying in my head
• 14:19
  that they've written this book,
• 14:20
  so I owe it to them to finish it,
• 14:22
  rather than being like, I owe it to myself
• 14:24
  to do something I enjoy with that hour
• 14:25
  or two hours of my life.
• 14:26
  And at some point, my brain switched,
• 14:28
  and I was like, if I am not enjoying myself,
• 14:31
  walk the fuck away.
• 14:32
  Like, and it's the same with movies, TV series,
• 14:36
  I used to commit, like, and my sister,
• 14:37
  oh my God, my sister made me watch some trash,
• 14:39
  because she will watch anything to the end,
• 14:42
  if she starts it, and it's just a pain in the ass.
• 14:46
  Well, I 100% now have become a person who'll be like,
• 14:49
  nah, I'm not having a good time, mate, I'm out,
• 14:51
  I'm back, bye, see you later.
• 14:52
  I don't even know if you like hugs,
• 14:53
  I don't even like hugs, but that's just great.
• 14:55
  Yeah, I used to like hugs.
• 14:56
  And then the word usage was weird,
• 14:59
  and we're like, nah, get out, okay.
• 15:02
  I love that so much, and honestly, though,
• 15:05
  don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly immature as well.
• 15:07
  I think anyone that watches my stream, it's obvious,
• 15:10
  but there's some maturity in that, though,
• 15:13
  of I need to value my own time.
• 15:17
  And I feel like capitalism, the world the way it exists,
• 15:20
  people just try and make you feel bad
• 15:21
  because they feel bad.
• 15:22
  Like, it's a real easy, slippery slope in AOP.
• 15:26
  Yeah, 100%.
• 15:28
  Sorry.
• 15:29
  No, it's fine.
• 15:31
  You know what's gonna happen, if you do too many of them,
• 15:33
  you're losing me for the rest of the stream.
• 15:37
  Got it, do more.
• 15:38
  Maybe in a good way, but you know.
• 15:41
  Hi, my hyperfixation is Torrin,
• 15:43
  and how long until I get her into bed, okay, yeah.
• 15:46
  There needs to be at least a plane ride,
• 15:48
  maybe a boat trip, no, I'm kidding.
• 15:51
  You know, though, truly,
• 15:53
  what I do want to talk about with you is story.
• 15:56
  And because, I mean, we've known each other
• 15:59
  in the ecosystem, if you will,
• 16:02
  like we have some friends of friends kind of thing,
• 16:04
  and then we haven't had a real chance to really talk,
• 16:07
  except maybe the last couple of years, right?
• 16:09
  True, yeah.
• 16:10
  Yeah, in events.
• 16:12
  And one of the things I kind of just,
• 16:15
  and this is definitely my autism,
• 16:17
  but one of the things that I see kind of thread through
• 16:19
  a lot of what you do is story.
• 16:22
  And-
• 16:23
  Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.
• 16:24
  Yeah, and now that I've gotten to know you,
• 16:25
  it's like, oh yeah, no, that's obvious.
• 16:27
  Yeah.
• 16:28
  Yeah.
• 16:30
  So, right.
• 16:31
  I was gonna say, what is the love of story there?
• 16:35
  Okay, so, you know,
• 16:37
  we'll not do the full trauma dump, because hello.
• 16:41
  Totally up to you what level.
• 16:43
  Everyone knows that storytelling
• 16:46
  and telling stories to yourself is a form of escapism.
• 16:49
  You know what I mean?
• 16:50
  When the world sucks, we go to stories,
• 16:52
  we go to movies, we go to books,
• 16:53
  because, you know, the hero gets the happy ending,
• 16:56
  things work out, everything turns out good.
• 16:58
  And even when they don't, at least, you know,
• 17:00
  you get a good story out of it.
• 17:01
  Because I read a lot of Stephen King growing up,
• 17:03
  and they are not happy ending stories.
• 17:05
  I was just thinking back to like,
• 17:08
  my childhood formation books,
• 17:09
  and I was like, I literally had to get permission
• 17:11
  from my dad to take out Stephen King
• 17:12
  when I was like 11 years old.
• 17:13
  So 100% did not always get a happy ending.
• 17:16
  But, that's where it came from, I think.
• 17:19
  Like, when me and my sister were kids,
• 17:21
  there was only us, we lived on a farm,
• 17:22
  we didn't have that, we had good childhood,
• 17:24
  no, we had a shit childhood.
• 17:26
  And we used to, yeah, no, I know.
• 17:29
  It was the negotiation with myself.
• 17:31
  Yeah, like the, should I hedge this?
• 17:34
  No, my childhood was questionable and traumatic.
• 17:37
  And we used to, we, you know,
• 17:39
  there was just us, we lived on a farm
• 17:41
  in the middle of nowhere,
• 17:42
  we had all the kids around, and we had Barbies.
• 17:43
  And we used to create worlds for our Barbies.
• 17:45
  And they weren't simple stories.
• 17:47
  They were, you know, Ken cheated on Barbie
• 17:51
  and Barbie went on a murder spree to get revenge.
• 17:53
  Those kinds of stories that I think everyone always told
• 17:56
  with their Barbies, right?
• 17:57
  That's perfectly normal.
• 17:58
  But yeah, like, I think it started from there.
• 18:01
  And I think I used to drive my sister a little bit crazy
• 18:04
  because she'd just be like,
• 18:04
  yeah, let's just play Barbies.
• 18:06
  And I'd be like, yeah, but why?
• 18:07
  Like, why are they here?
• 18:09
  How did they get here?
• 18:10
  What's the backstory?
• 18:12
  Does Ken know Cindy?
• 18:13
  Who's this girl?
• 18:14
  Why did she get here?
• 18:15
  And I think my sister was much more of a like,
• 18:18
  let's just play.
• 18:19
  And I was like, no.
• 18:20
  And it like, it carried over.
• 18:21
  Like my friend had Sylvanian families,
• 18:22
  like when we moved and lived close to the people.
• 18:24
  And I would drive her crazy with the backstory
• 18:27
  and the neighbors hearing the other neighbors
• 18:28
  talking about so-and-so's affair and stuff,
• 18:30
  because it just, it was just fun for me.
• 18:32
  So I think a hundred percent for me,
• 18:34
  it's a form of escapism.
• 18:35
  And then I think I carry that over
• 18:38
  as like a way to entertain people
• 18:40
  in the sense that I want to give them
• 18:42
  an opportunity to escape.
• 18:44
  Because the world's tough.
• 18:45
  You know, life is life thing.
• 18:47
  And I think like,
• 18:48
  I think if you're gonna do something on stream,
• 18:51
  you could just do a thing,
• 18:52
  but you're not getting the buy-in from people
• 18:53
  because they don't know why they're there
• 18:55
  or why they're listening.
• 18:56
  But if you can give them the full story and in-depth
• 18:59
  and make them buy into the people, the characters,
• 19:00
  you know, like it started in the Sims, let's be honest,
• 19:03
  which on stream is what I mean for starting in the Sims.
• 19:05
  But I couldn't ever just build a property.
• 19:08
  Like the first thing I truly remember building
• 19:10
  and it probably wasn't the first thing,
• 19:12
  but one of the things that really sticks with me
• 19:13
  is I built a block of flats
• 19:16
  where the bottom flat was women who were prostitutes.
• 19:22
  And as it worked the layers up,
• 19:26
  there was like the men who kept the women in line.
• 19:28
  Like, and then there was the top flat
• 19:29
  was the drug dealing pimp daddy
• 19:31
  who had a really beautiful pimped out flat.
• 19:34
  And then under him was like the drug barons
• 19:37
  and then whatever.
• 19:38
  But like, that was one of the first things.
• 19:40
  Now I could have just built a block of flats,
• 19:41
  but no, I needed it.
• 19:43
  And I think the connection that that helped you make
• 19:46
  with people when people were like,
• 19:47
  oh yeah, what if one of them,
• 19:49
  and then they'd add to that story
• 19:50
  and then it became like a cooperative thing.
• 19:53
  So like I gave them an idea
• 19:54
  and then people would want input and they'd be like,
• 19:55
  oh yeah, put one of these in this room.
• 19:57
  Maybe one of the girls does this
• 19:58
  or maybe the guy's hiding a stash somewhere
• 20:00
  and like he'd go hide it.
• 20:02
  So I think collaborative storytelling
• 20:04
  kind of weirdly came apart for me.
• 20:06
  And it was the first time I'd really done it to that level
• 20:09
  with random strangers that I didn't know
• 20:11
  and realized the like pure joy of it.
• 20:13
  Do you know what I mean?
• 20:14
  And also the buy-in.
• 20:15
  People came back to see the finished build
• 20:18
  because they wanted to know.
• 20:19
  Like-
• 20:20
  What happened to the baron?
• 20:21
  Yeah.
• 20:22
  Yeah.
• 20:23
  So it's, there's a little bit of like,
• 20:25
  it's not selfishness to it,
• 20:26
  but there's a little bit of mindfulness
• 20:28
  that it makes better content.
• 20:30
  Like the people I'm trying to make,
• 20:32
  but also it brings me joy to do it.
• 20:34
  And I know it brings other people happiness too.
• 20:37
  They want to know like when I'm building,
• 20:39
  no one ever asked me now what you're building.
• 20:40
  It's like, who lives here?
• 20:42
  Like, what's the story?
• 20:43
  Because they know I will have one.
• 20:45
  Like if even if I'm in the middle of a kitchen
• 20:47
  in a blank room,
• 20:48
  I've already sort of decided who lives in the house
• 20:50
  and I'm already planning it.
• 20:51
  And like, so that was really good for The Sims.
• 20:53
  And I think it gave me an angle,
• 20:54
  not every, like a lot of people have it,
• 20:55
  but a lot of people's stories in The Sims
• 20:57
  are The Sims themselves.
• 20:58
  Like they're, you know,
• 20:59
  they play it and then shit happens.
• 21:01
  Whereas I'm like, nah, we'll make our own story.
• 21:04
  We're more exciting than The Sims.
• 21:06
  You know, number one,
• 21:08
  I really need the whole story
• 21:10
  about the flat of prostitutes and the pimp above.
• 21:13
  Like, I really need to see this cause I missed it
• 21:15
  and I'm now missing out, I'm really sad.
• 21:17
  But also in a weird way, I don't know about you,
• 21:22
  but especially acting and then doing tabletop RPGs,
• 21:28
  that's a huge part of it.
• 21:29
  And by that, I mean, when we're voice acting and things,
• 21:35
  it's very helpful to realize the world you're in.
• 21:38
  Because once you have the world,
• 21:40
  you can decide how the characters feel about it.
• 21:42
  But the world must exist first in that scenario, if you will.
• 21:45
  And it's a real way to connect with things as well.
• 21:49
  So do you think maybe that's part of it too,
• 21:52
  of just how you feel connected with people?
• 21:56
  Maybe, potentially?
• 21:58
  Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent,
• 21:59
  because like I said, it gives you,
• 22:00
  like you can build and talk.
• 22:02
  Like on Twitch, you know this,
• 22:04
  you can be a narrator for three hours.
• 22:07
  You can sit and tell everyone about your life,
• 22:08
  what you're doing,
• 22:09
  and you can just a hundred percent
• 22:10
  never interact really with chat.
• 22:11
  And there are streamers that do that and it's gold.
• 22:14
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 22:15
  People love it.
• 22:16
  They just sit and they listen and they're happy.
• 22:19
  And you know, it's the occasional, hi, how are you?
• 22:20
  Yeah, I'm fine.
• 22:21
  Today's I'm at work, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:22
  And then that's it.
• 22:23
  They don't speak in a chat and they lurk.
• 22:24
  And Twitch is made of lurkers and go do it.
• 22:27
  Like, cause it's amazing.
• 22:28
  And you support people and that's great.
• 22:29
  But when you get that chance,
• 22:31
  you learn so much about someone
• 22:34
  by what they give you in that moment.
• 22:36
  Like, why do they want to, you know,
• 22:39
  why do they want one of the women
• 22:40
  to have a purple bedroom?
• 22:42
  Why purple?
• 22:42
  What do, why are you?
• 22:43
  Like all that kind of thing,
• 22:44
  you, it's one of the easiest ways to learn about someone
• 22:47
  is watching their mind create something.
• 22:49
  And like, I can't see the people,
• 22:50
  but I can see the process.
• 22:52
  And I think like, tying in CTOGs,
• 22:54
  like you were just saying,
• 22:55
  like, obviously I'm a,
• 22:56
  we'll probably get to it in a sec,
• 22:57
  or we can get to it now.
• 22:59
  But like, I'm learning to DM
• 23:00
  and I only really like have started properly
• 23:02
  playing Dungeons and Dragons
• 23:04
  probably like the last year and a half,
• 23:05
  even though I've wanted to for like 20 years.
• 23:08
  But you know, you have to find the people, right?
• 23:11
  Well, one of the best processes for that for me
• 23:14
  as a DM so far has been sitting with people
• 23:17
  as they create their character,
• 23:18
  because figuring out which bit matters to them the most
• 23:21
  and then how they build that character around it
• 23:23
  and figuring out when you say to them,
• 23:25
  okay, well, this is maybe the bit of the world they'd fit in
• 23:27
  and then they realize that they can build around that.
• 23:29
  And then I'm like, yeah, the world's yours.
• 23:30
  You do what you want.
• 23:31
  Like, where would the town be?
• 23:32
  What would the thing be?
• 23:33
  And you create this.
• 23:34
  I'm just here telling you,
• 23:35
  like the basic mechanics of the world
• 23:38
  and you need to like build on that.
• 23:40
  It's just so much fun to learn so much about people
• 23:43
  by how their mind works.
• 23:44
  So yeah, I think it is a connection.
• 23:45
  And I think it's like,
• 23:46
  it's almost like a shortcut
• 23:48
  to a level of intimacy with someone.
• 23:51
  Like it removes all small talk and bullshit
• 23:54
  because you're excited about something together
• 23:57
  and it's the same thing.
• 23:58
  And once you get to that level with someone,
• 24:00
  that connection just, whether it's fake or not,
• 24:03
  it still feels more real in that moment.
• 24:06
  Like you feel like you're on the same page
• 24:09
  and that's, it is a little bit of a shortcut to a buy-in.
• 24:11
  And I guess it's like people do with kids.
• 24:13
  You know what I mean?
• 24:14
  You tell a kid a story for a reason.
• 24:15
  It's not just because you want to read them five minutes
• 24:17
  in the hope that they go to sleep.
• 24:18
  It's because you're trying to engage their imagination,
• 24:21
  trying to make them-
• 24:22
  Some people, maybe.
• 24:23
  Well, yeah, okay.
• 24:24
  No, I got you.
• 24:25
  The reason we're supposed to read to children,
• 24:28
  you're not the reason we always read.
• 24:29
  And Emily, you're like, no.
• 24:32
  But it's because you want to engage that part of someone
• 24:35
  because it's the freest part of any person.
• 24:38
  Like it's the most inhibitionless, like just out there.
• 24:42
  And obviously for me,
• 24:43
  I always added a level of smut, filth, mature content to it
• 24:46
  because that's funny and that's who I am as a person.
• 24:49
  But we also have done ones just where we've like
• 24:51
  had families and they had kids
• 24:53
  and then listening to people just create
• 24:54
  what the kids' personalities might be like.
• 24:56
  And I'm like, is that what you were like as a kid
• 24:58
  or is that what you wanted to be like as a kid?
• 24:59
  And it just, yeah, it's just, it is.
• 25:02
  It's a connection to people,
• 25:03
  but also like it's a peek behind the curtain.
• 25:05
  Like you can pay attention
• 25:07
  and you can understand the person a lot more
• 25:09
  if you create something with them.
• 25:11
  Absolutely.
• 25:12
  Like if you get to be that thing.
• 25:12
  And especially like you were talking about
• 25:14
  the vulnerability piece,
• 25:15
  because there's got to be a level of trust
• 25:18
  or at least a level of willing to trust to do that.
• 25:20
  Cause it can get real.
• 25:22
  I mean, I've had teacher RPGs
• 25:24
  where I just had everyone crying their eyes out.
• 25:26
  It can be really hard
• 25:28
  or something you're working through.
• 25:29
  You know what I mean?
• 25:30
  Like it can be very difficult.
• 25:33
  And so even just offering an idea, even if it's silly,
• 25:37
  there's still a level of,
• 25:39
  I have to test to see if I can trust this person.
• 25:42
  Not like a test, that sounds weird the way I put it,
• 25:44
  but there's a level of vulnerability to be like,
• 25:47
  can I trust this person?
• 25:48
  What if we just put a gnome in there?
• 25:51
  You know what I mean?
• 25:52
  Yeah, it's giving them a part of yourself
• 25:56
  that isn't necessarily real, but is.
• 25:59
  Do you know what I mean?
• 25:59
  It's not like, here's what happened to me in my childhood,
• 26:02
  but it's like, here's a really valuable to me
• 26:05
  part of my brain that I'm going to trust you with
• 26:07
  and see what you do.
• 26:08
  Cause then maybe I'll trust you with the other shit.
• 26:10
  But like a hundred percent,
• 26:12
  it's that first initial moment of like,
• 26:14
  I'm giving you something precious to me.
• 26:16
  How do you treat it?
• 26:17
  And I think D&D is a great example of that,
• 26:20
  of like, you get the good DMs, the bad DMs,
• 26:22
  because again, I've played a lot of one shots
• 26:25
  and I've seen a little variety of those now.
• 26:27
  And the people who trust and embrace your characters,
• 26:31
  even if they barely know anything about them,
• 26:33
  you can see the difference.
• 26:34
  You can like how comfortable it is to be in that space
• 26:37
  and to want to play and to want to be your character
• 26:39
  because they give you the trust to be yourself,
• 26:41
  but also they respect it and they like give it.
• 26:44
  Whereas you've got the other ones who were like,
• 26:45
  no, I have created a world
• 26:48
  and I have a story I want to tell
• 26:50
  and you're the pieces I need
• 26:52
  to take that story to the end.
• 26:54
  And it's like, that's not what it should be.
• 26:57
  And I guess some people are okay with that.
• 26:58
  Some people just want to go into combat
• 26:59
  and beat the shit out of an imaginary vampire
• 27:01
  and get the killing move and that's fine.
• 27:04
  But like most people that you know, that you see
• 27:06
  or that you talk to want that story.
• 27:09
  They want to mold the story.
• 27:10
  They want to shape it.
• 27:11
  And I think that's why Critical Role really came in for me
• 27:13
  is the like Matt Mercer effect.
• 27:17
  But Matt Mercer is like that man built an entire world
• 27:23
  and then gave it to his friends and said, have fun.
• 27:26
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 27:27
  Like, and I truly believe he is one of the best examples
• 27:30
  of that as a number one, he's just really good at improv
• 27:32
  and thinking on his feet when they do something
• 27:34
  completely unpredictable
• 27:34
  and that he's never going to see come in.
• 27:36
  But also because he knows that world,
• 27:38
  loves that world, but trust his friends.
• 27:40
  He wants them to do something he never saw coming.
• 27:42
  Like he wants them to fuck it up.
• 27:44
  He wants them to go to somewhere
• 27:45
  that they weren't meant to go because it's fun for him.
• 27:49
  Like, and I think that them,
• 27:51
  like if you ever want to watch the same thing
• 27:53
  that we're talking about of like trust and that input,
• 27:55
  that they're a great example of it.
• 27:57
  I think it's like the goals and everyone knows that.
• 28:00
  I'm not, you know, I'm not rewriting the wheel.
• 28:02
  I'm not giving you guys a revelation.
• 28:03
  They've been around for 10 years
• 28:04
  and they're absolutely ridiculously famous.
• 28:06
  But I think for me, it's interesting to watch
• 28:07
  like campaign one versus campaign two
• 28:10
  because campaign one,
• 28:11
  they'd been playing for a long time before.
• 28:12
  They'd already established that.
• 28:13
  We didn't get to see it happen on screen.
• 28:15
  Whereas I think campaign two is the first time
• 28:17
  you really get to sit and watch Matt,
• 28:20
  let them shape the world.
• 28:21
  Like he gave them a starting town
• 28:23
  and then just said, have fun.
• 28:24
  And I think it's just, yeah, it's a genius thing to watch.
• 28:28
  Like jealousy, goals, aspirations,
• 28:31
  but also I will never be that person.
• 28:33
  I'm okay with that.
• 28:34
  Yeah.
• 28:36
  I really love that though,
• 28:37
  because I think at the core of all of that is listening,
• 28:41
  is being able to listen and give breath to something
• 28:45
  because you can tell it's important to them,
• 28:47
  even if you don't understand why.
• 28:49
  So maybe listening and empathy,
• 28:51
  but that's what it sounds like to me.
• 28:53
  And what I think makes a really great game great,
• 28:57
  a really great story great,
• 28:59
  is that space to listen,
• 29:02
  that space to find yourself in it
• 29:06
  or a small part of yourself where you can connect to it.
• 29:07
  Right?
• 29:08
  Yeah.
• 29:10
  That's so sweet.
• 29:11
  What we were talking about before
• 29:12
  about shit books versus good books,
• 29:13
  I think there's a lot of levels in that.
• 29:16
  In that, you know, Lord of the Rings,
• 29:17
  one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written
• 29:19
  in my opinion,
• 29:20
  but Tolkien knew that world backwards, forwards, inside out.
• 29:23
  He knew what happened a thousand years ago
• 29:26
  and he knew what happened a hundred years ago.
• 29:28
  And so when he creates the characters,
• 29:30
  there was no question of it making sense.
• 29:32
  It was a good story to tell
• 29:33
  because he built a solid world.
• 29:35
  And then I like to think when you're writing a story
• 29:38
  and having written a few stories,
• 29:40
  sometimes the characters, even as you write them,
• 29:42
  you're like, well, that's not what they do.
• 29:43
  And even if you had a plan like,
• 29:45
  oh, they're definitely gonna go here.
• 29:46
  And then as you write it,
• 29:47
  oh, but they wouldn't.
• 29:48
  No, they do something totally different.
• 29:51
  Yeah.
• 29:51
  And it's like, you can see it in good books, good stories.
• 29:54
  It's because the world got built first.
• 29:56
  And I think, again, like you said,
• 29:58
  that's the important thing is that underlying,
• 30:01
  and that's like our job as DMs
• 30:02
  or as even a Twitch streamer,
• 30:05
  who's doing that kind of thing,
• 30:06
  my job is to give them the world to join in and play with.
• 30:10
  Not to tell them a full story.
• 30:12
  I like to think so.
• 30:13
  Sometimes I have a full story and I'm like,
• 30:14
  no guys, this is what's happening.
• 30:16
  Well, that's on Twitch, not on D&D.
• 30:17
  That's your favorite NPC that you-
• 30:19
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 30:21
  What's up, guys?
• 30:22
  That's what they came for me.
• 30:23
  But also, yeah.
• 30:25
  And then to see that you affected something,
• 30:28
  like as a player, I would say, even, and as a DM too,
• 30:31
  but as a player, to see that you affected something
• 30:35
  and then see it pay off in some way.
• 30:37
  Whether it's good or bad.
• 30:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:39
  You know what I mean?
• 30:40
  Well, I mean, I can't remember who it was.
• 30:43
  I was watching someone on YouTube or whatever
• 30:44
  and they were saying that it's only good
• 30:47
  if there are consequences for your actions.
• 30:49
  Like, it's only good if decisions matter.
• 30:52
  Like, and 100%, that is what I think is the important thing.
• 30:56
  And even when those decisions,
• 30:58
  and like, I think one of the things
• 31:00
  that's the hardest thing about world building,
• 31:03
  and like I said, I am learning
• 31:04
  and I've built my first world and it's terrifying.
• 31:06
  But one of the hardest things,
• 31:07
  and I saw it was mentioned, was it Dimension 20?
• 31:10
  Or was it, I don't know.
• 31:11
  It was mentioned by someone talking about something.
• 31:14
  But they said that like one of the greatest things
• 31:16
  that they ever saw was when a DM
• 31:18
  in the middle of like a session
• 31:19
  and was like, what you guys aren't seeing.
• 31:21
  And she was talking, because it was an actual play,
• 31:22
  the person was talking to the camera.
• 31:24
  So she was letting the audience know
• 31:26
  that shit was happening in the world
• 31:27
  that had nothing to do with these player characters.
• 31:29
  Yes.
• 31:30
  But it was happening regardless of them being there.
• 31:33
  And I think like the Mighty Nein getting animated,
• 31:35
  that's what Matt's all excited about
• 31:37
  because he can go back and be like,
• 31:38
  yeah, Essek, spoiler alert,
• 31:40
  becomes a major character later.
• 31:42
  But I now get to go show you
• 31:44
  what Essek was doing the whole way through the story
• 31:46
  until he met the Mighty Nein kind of thing.
• 31:48
  And I think that's one of the hardest
• 31:50
  yet most fun things to do.
• 31:51
  Like we've created a world
• 31:53
  for one of the things I'm playing
• 31:54
  and they've chose to go to a certain city
• 31:56
  and they're making decisions and shit is happening.
• 31:58
  But the shit that was gonna happen in the other cities,
• 32:00
  if they'd have gone there,
• 32:01
  because they had the choice,
• 32:02
  is still gonna happen, but without their influence.
• 32:05
  So like the story is moving in the whole world
• 32:08
  as they are moving through their story.
• 32:10
  And I think that also is what makes it fun
• 32:12
  is that like the consequences of their actions.
• 32:14
  So by choosing to go to this town over this town,
• 32:16
  by choosing to leave that person behind,
• 32:18
  by not accepting that job,
• 32:19
  the job just doesn't freeze in place
• 32:21
  until you decide to go back to it.
• 32:23
  These people are living, they exist,
• 32:24
  they're in a world
• 32:25
  and those decisions have consequences
• 32:27
  even if your decision is to do nothing.
• 32:30
  Like, and I think that's one of the things
• 32:32
  I'm having the most fun in in the moment
• 32:34
  because we're in a little pause
• 32:34
  between when we can all schedule our games,
• 32:36
  is kind of going back
• 32:38
  and filling in the timelines of everyone else
• 32:42
  that was in my big story arc
• 32:43
  so that I know where they are when we go back in.
• 32:46
  Like, where is this person right now
• 32:48
  and what are the chances of these people bumping into them?
• 32:50
  And again, it's still, they did it
• 32:52
  because when I first put that person in that spot,
• 32:55
  they could have bumped into him and changed that whole story
• 32:56
  but they didn't.
• 32:57
  So now I have to figure out for me,
• 32:58
  and this is where being a DM is great
• 33:00
  because you do get to tell your own stories
• 33:02
  in there as well,
• 33:03
  is I get to decide what the NPC that I know
• 33:05
  that I created would do without their influence.
• 33:08
  Like, how would that have tracked down?
• 33:09
  So yeah, I think world building is the fun thing
• 33:11
  but also yeah, consequences to your actions are essential
• 33:14
  because if you don't have them,
• 33:17
  you know, and it's the same thing
• 33:18
  like people say you can't fudge a roll on a nat 20.
• 33:20
  Like, nat 20s aren't always successes.
• 33:23
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 33:24
  If something isn't gonna happen,
• 33:25
  like you cannot convince a king,
• 33:27
  you can't persuade a king to give you his kingdom
• 33:29
  just because you roll a nat 20.
• 33:30
  Like, he wasn't gonna do it,
• 33:32
  he's never gonna do it.
• 33:33
  You can tell me I'm gonna roll persuasion.
• 33:35
  Great, go for it.
• 33:36
  Okay, he decides you're really charming and funny
• 33:38
  and he wants you in his court
• 33:39
  and he wants to talk to you every day.
• 33:40
  No, he does not give you the kingdom.
• 33:42
  You will now have a royal position
• 33:44
  and can't adventure anymore.
• 33:45
  I hope you had fun with that.
• 33:46
  Yeah, basically, like, and I wouldn't be a dick about it
• 33:49
  and I don't mean it like that,
• 33:49
  but like, if you are rolling to say
• 33:51
  you wanna influence a king, fair play.
• 33:55
  But how does that then pan out?
• 33:57
  Like, you don't get the kingdom,
• 33:58
  but you now, the king's like, oh, I trust this guy.
• 34:01
  He's very charming.
• 34:02
  He knows what he's talking about.
• 34:03
  He wouldn't let you then just run off to fight the dragon
• 34:05
  because he'd be like, well, no, I need this dude.
• 34:06
  He's like really important.
• 34:08
  Yeah, what are the consequences of your actions?
• 34:10
  And also, yeah, sure, I'll let you become king for a day.
• 34:12
  Do you wanna do that?
• 34:13
  Because I don't think you do.
• 34:14
  You're supposed to be some loner adventurer
• 34:16
  who ran off and abandoned his family.
• 34:18
  And now you're like, yeah, the throne looks hot.
• 34:20
  Okay, great.
• 34:21
  You get to decide with the next 20 people
• 34:22
  who walk in the room, get to live or die.
• 34:24
  Have fun.
• 34:25
  Make those decisions.
• 34:26
  How long do you wanna sit on that throne for?
• 34:27
  Thought it would be.
• 34:28
  Yeah.
• 34:29
  You don't lead an army.
• 34:30
  Yeah, don't lead their own armies.
• 34:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:33
  He never leaves this room.
• 34:34
  Like, okay, yeah, he doesn't give you the kingdom,
• 34:36
  but he does sit you back
• 34:37
  and he gives you a full life day by day,
• 34:40
  blow by blow of how sad and lonely his life is on the throne.
• 34:45
  And then ask you to please take it from him
• 34:48
  because he doesn't want it anymore.
• 34:51
  Like, and I don't mean that they'd always be negative.
• 34:53
  You could have some really positive outcomes
• 34:54
  because it's in that 20,
• 34:55
  but it's just the example that like people believe
• 34:59
  that sometimes the dice are too powerful
• 35:00
  or that they're too powerful.
• 35:02
  And it's like, no, the world still exists, mate.
• 35:04
  You can't change everything just because you are,
• 35:06
  because you're not, you are the main characters.
• 35:09
  It's your story, but you are not the only character.
• 35:12
  Yes.
• 35:13
  It's like the world doesn't exist.
• 35:15
  Yeah, they're people, they exist.
• 35:17
  I think someone, there's a guy on TikTok,
• 35:19
  he's like a DM and he had a joke.
• 35:21
  It wasn't real, but it was like a consequence counter.
• 35:24
  And basically it was every time they were mean to the NPCs,
• 35:27
  like, you know, they stole one
• 35:29
  or they charmed one into giving them a discount,
• 35:32
  he just put a marker on.
• 35:33
  And he was like, what should the consequences be?
• 35:35
  And it was like, he was like, guys, it's a prank.
• 35:37
  I didn't really count 690 times that a player's pissed me off
• 35:40
  but it was like, the point should be made
• 35:42
  like that if you are actively trying
• 35:44
  to be the dicks in this situation,
• 35:46
  even if you're the heroes, so you're saving the day
• 35:49
  but you're not respecting the people in the story,
• 35:51
  there will be consequences to that.
• 35:52
  Like you will, at some point people will be like,
• 35:55
  yeah, we know you're gonna save the town
• 35:56
  but we also know you're probably gonna rob us.
• 35:57
  So actually we're good.
• 35:59
  Yeah, we'll get someone.
• 36:00
  You know what?
• 36:00
  You are now not the lesser of two evils.
• 36:03
  Yeah, exactly.
• 36:04
  You've eaten the scales, we don't want you no more.
• 36:07
  Well, and then it makes sense
• 36:08
  why Mercs would come after them later or something.
• 36:10
  You know?
• 36:11
  Yeah.
• 36:12
  Like, hey, you actually were really rude
• 36:14
  and killed somebody that we all liked.
• 36:15
  So, you know, it totally makes sense, yeah.
• 36:20
  But even that simple thing of when they act freely as well.
• 36:24
  So you sometimes get characters
• 36:25
  and I see in a lot of actual plays
• 36:27
  where they go somewhere,
• 36:27
  they decide the guy's the bad guy, so they kill him.
• 36:30
  Yeah.
• 36:30
  And sure, the guy fights them,
• 36:32
  but where's your evidence that that guy's the bad guy?
• 36:36
  This town, the people who sent you,
• 36:38
  they hadn't decided.
• 36:38
  They told you to investigate
• 36:40
  and you just take it upon yourself to murder someone?
• 36:43
  Yeah, you've got an arrest warrant.
• 36:44
  Oh, absolutely.
• 36:45
  Like in a second.
• 36:46
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 36:48
  Yeah.
• 36:49
  Yeah.
• 36:50
  We didn't know he was conning us, manipulating us.
• 36:52
  It was actually working for the big bad.
• 36:54
  We just thought that was Bruce, you know?
• 36:56
  He was a good guy.
• 36:57
  Yeah, he was a favorite.
• 36:57
  Yeah.
• 36:59
  So like, there are consequences
• 37:01
  even in doing the good thing.
• 37:02
  Like, you know, the anti-hero is a real concept.
• 37:05
  And yeah, like you can do what you believe
• 37:08
  to be the right thing.
• 37:09
  Like, I've seen loads of people theorize stories.
• 37:11
  I've never seen anyone actually do it
• 37:12
  where by the end, the adventurers realize
• 37:16
  they've been the bad guys the whole way through
• 37:18
  and everyone they've killed and everything they've done.
• 37:20
  And like, they have a reputation as these evil things
• 37:22
  and they come across another adventuring party
• 37:24
  who's been sent out to destroy them
• 37:26
  because they are the big bad of the world.
• 37:29
  And it's like, can you imagine that moment
• 37:30
  if you're a player and you're like, wait,
• 37:32
  what, everyone I've killed, everyone?
• 37:34
  What?
• 37:35
  Yeah, what do you mean?
• 37:36
  There's a bounty on my head.
• 37:37
  What do you mean?
• 37:37
  Yeah.
• 37:38
  What do you mean these adventurers
• 37:40
  who look an awful lot like us have been sent to,
• 37:42
  oh my God.
• 37:43
  Yeah.
• 37:44
  But I think it would be fun.
• 37:44
  It's like a fun story to run.
• 37:45
  I bet.
• 37:46
  And being like, yeah, by the way.
• 37:47
  Yeah, I was about to say like,
• 37:48
  not that I have time for this,
• 37:50
  but honestly, that would be really funny.
• 37:53
  Okay, this is definitely proving
• 37:54
  that we are both DM brained.
• 37:55
  But like,
• 37:56
  because A, there's some people that never want to DM.
• 37:59
  There's some people that will always DM.
• 38:01
  But like, what if you ran two tables
• 38:04
  where they heard about each other's shenanigans,
• 38:07
  but you didn't tell them, you know what I mean?
• 38:09
  Like.
• 38:10
  Yeah, yeah, you didn't know it was near the table.
• 38:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:13
  After each other at some point.
• 38:14
  Oh my God, it'd be so funny.
• 38:15
  Yeah.
• 38:16
  Well, I do have two tables in the same world
• 38:19
  because when I started DMing,
• 38:21
  I had two different groups of friends.
• 38:22
  To be fair, one's only done like two sessions,
• 38:24
  maybe one, can't remember.
• 38:25
  The other one's done like four or five, six.
• 38:26
  So they're further along in the story.
• 38:28
  But because they're all friends as well,
• 38:30
  we talked about crossovers.
• 38:31
  And I was like, yeah.
• 38:33
  And they were like, yeah, wouldn't it be great
• 38:34
  if we all met like randomly in a bar
• 38:36
  and then we had to solve a little thing together
• 38:37
  and we could have a little one shot.
• 38:39
  But I know their characters and I know what they've done.
• 38:42
  And I know their alignments with the world right now.
• 38:44
  And I'm like, well, we could put you all
• 38:46
  in a group together,
• 38:47
  but I guarantee it ain't gonna go the way you're thinking it.
• 38:50
  And like, they don't know their characters.
• 38:53
  So they don't know that they would be at odds
• 38:55
  with each other, like immediately.
• 38:56
  And obviously when they hear the podcast,
• 38:57
  they're gonna be like, oh, Suze, thanks.
• 38:58
  Yeah, if you're in a party, no, you're not.
• 39:00
  You're not.
• 39:02
  But yeah, like they logically,
• 39:05
  their parties would not be on the same side necessarily.
• 39:08
  And it's so interesting to me that they just assume
• 39:11
  because they're all existing within one world
• 39:13
  that they're all fighting the same evil.
• 39:15
  And it's like, but perception is a thing.
• 39:17
  And also there's more than one evil in the world
• 39:20
  at any one time.
• 39:21
  So you don't know what you're fighting
• 39:23
  is the same thing they're fighting.
• 39:25
  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I know,
• 39:26
  but you guys don't,
• 39:27
  and you don't know what stance you're taking.
• 39:29
  So yeah, it's just an interesting,
• 39:30
  even if you do say to people actively like,
• 39:33
  hey, I've got three campaigns running in the same world,
• 39:35
  they'll all just assume they're going towards the same goal.
• 39:37
  And it's like, as a DM, you can be like,
• 39:41
  also their choices influence that dramatically, right?
• 39:44
  What if one of the parties like burns
• 39:46
  the other party's hometown down
• 39:47
  because they found out it was like,
• 39:49
  it's so much fun.
• 39:50
  The other one I love is Amnesia as a DM
• 39:53
  is wake a party up with no memory of who they are, right?
• 39:55
  Slowly let it come back to them and then see what they do.
• 39:58
  And because it's players that you know,
• 40:00
  we all know they'd become adventurers, right?
• 40:02
  They'd become the good guys.
• 40:04
  They'd go out, they'd start saving the day.
• 40:06
  But then what if the memories they have
• 40:08
  is that they were the villain?
• 40:09
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 40:10
  And as those memories come back,
• 40:11
  they realize the people they're chasing is themselves.
• 40:14
  So they have literally been following a breadcrumb of trails
• 40:17
  to catch themselves.
• 40:19
  And it's such an interesting concept for a D&D game.
• 40:22
  Like you wouldn't, you couldn't do a long one.
• 40:23
  It'd have to be like a mini campaign
• 40:24
  because they catch themselves pretty quickly.
• 40:26
  But also what if you're the first one to realize?
• 40:29
  And what if you realize that your friends are the villains?
• 40:31
  Do you tell the rest, do you leave?
• 40:33
  Do you take them out?
• 40:34
  Because they're villains.
• 40:35
  Like if they remember who they were,
• 40:37
  do they go back to being who they were?
• 40:40
  Yeah.
• 40:41
  Does all the good you did in the like four months
• 40:42
  that you've been campaigning together
• 40:44
  undo the bad you did before?
• 40:46
  Or are you still the villains?
• 40:47
  Like it's such,
• 40:48
  and I think that's what storytelling ultimately is really.
• 40:52
  It's a way to pose big questions in a fun way, right?
• 40:56
  It's a way to let you think about the problems of the world
• 41:00
  and also just to believe that we'd be good.
• 41:03
  Like look at the Hunger Games versus America right now,
• 41:07
  not to get too political.
• 41:08
  Like there's so many people making comparisons
• 41:11
  and there's a reason the Hunger Games are back again
• 41:13
  and that they're selling really well
• 41:15
  and that they're bringing out new films.
• 41:16
  And it's because people wanna believe
• 41:17
  that if they were faced with that situation, they'd rebel.
• 41:19
  That they would fight, that they would hold back,
• 41:21
  that they would do it,
• 41:22
  that we would not be oppressed as people.
• 41:24
  But realistically, we all know we are the opposite of that.
• 41:27
  Whereas, you know, what is it they say in Men in Black
• 41:29
  that a person is smart and people are dumb?
• 41:32
  And I don't mean that in a horrible way,
• 41:34
  but it's 100% true.
• 41:34
  Like on your own in a room,
• 41:36
  you were like, I will never let that happen.
• 41:38
  Put a hundred people in a room and they're like, yeah, but.
• 41:41
  What?
• 41:42
  The pressure when everyone else do it.
• 41:43
  Yeah, exactly.
• 41:44
  The minute it becomes a crowd or.
• 41:47
  Oh no, absolutely.
• 41:48
  Mob mentality type of things.
• 41:50
  And like, I only said Suze because I'm like,
• 41:53
  you don't know this about me,
• 41:55
  but I quote that way too often.
• 41:58
  That is one of my favorite quotes
• 41:59
  in a film, TV, movie ever fucking spoken.
• 42:03
  Mine too.
• 42:03
  From Tom Daley Jones.
• 42:04
  Yes, because like, ugh.
• 42:05
  And it, yep, nope, I'm good.
• 42:08
  I could deep dive literally just on that.
• 42:09
  Yeah, no, no.
• 42:10
  But it is, I 100% think it's true.
• 42:11
  But also I think it is the collective apathy
• 42:15
  that comes from that is you just assume
• 42:17
  someone else is gonna take care of it.
• 42:18
  Or will.
• 42:19
  Like the more people you put.
• 42:20
  Yeah, the more people you put in a room though,
• 42:22
  you just start assuming someone smarter than you,
• 42:24
  someone stronger than you, someone bigger than you,
• 42:26
  someone else will take care of it.
• 42:28
  And it's always interesting to me in D&D
• 42:30
  that we put these people in a thing
• 42:31
  and you give them some powers
• 42:32
  and they create these characters,
• 42:34
  but never once does a D&D character turn to the DM
• 42:37
  or never in my experience in anything I've ever watched
• 42:39
  and go, isn't there someone else we should go to?
• 42:44
  Because this is like, actually, no,
• 42:46
  they do do it in Mighty Nein,
• 42:47
  but they still continue on anyway.
• 42:49
  But like, no, they never hand the job off.
• 42:52
  They're never like, yep, we're outclassed here.
• 42:54
  I'm just gonna, or they never sit in a tavern
• 42:56
  for two sessions waiting.
• 42:58
  Yeah, yeah, of course there's a dragon out there,
• 42:59
  but someone else is gonna go deal with it, right?
• 43:01
  Yeah, they're like a little 20-something, right?
• 43:03
  Yeah, but it just is never a thing
• 43:06
  when you're in a story to assume that,
• 43:08
  because you know in a story that you're the main character.
• 43:10
  You know that that DM is telling the story for you.
• 43:13
  But when did we stop knowing
• 43:14
  we were the main characters in our own lives?
• 43:16
  Like, when did we walk away from that responsibility
• 43:19
  that I am the main character in my own life
• 43:21
  and I'm the one that should take action?
• 43:23
  I'm the one that should change things?
• 43:24
  Because in my own life, I'm the only one who can.
• 43:27
  Like, I can't sit and wait.
• 43:29
  And I just, I think, yeah, collective apathy,
• 43:31
  like the whole procrastination as a nation
• 43:34
  is what we do now.
• 43:35
  And I live on the Isle of Man.
• 43:38
  I don't live in America,
• 43:39
  so I'm not ever gonna criticize any American
• 43:40
  for not knowing what the fuck to do right now
• 43:42
  because I get it.
• 43:44
  But also, I think we're all the same.
• 43:45
  Like, the number of people
• 43:46
  who sit around and bitch about things
• 43:47
  and then never even take a simple step to fix it.
• 43:50
  And you're like, well, what are you doing about it?
• 43:52
  And like, yeah, we all moan about stuff,
• 43:53
  but what are you doing?
• 43:54
  Like, if you're unhappy, only you can change that.
• 43:57
  Like, you are the only person
• 43:59
  in control of your own destiny.
• 44:00
  And if you start thinking you're not,
• 44:02
  you're thinking incorrectly.
• 44:04
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 44:05
  If Katniss Everdeen said-
• 44:06
  It's something that's hard to get through.
• 44:08
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:09
  Yeah, no, 100%.
• 44:10
  Like, I'm not saying that, like,
• 44:11
  I get that it can, and I've been there,
• 44:14
  and mental health is health,
• 44:17
  and mental health's a real thing.
• 44:18
  And everyone has mental health.
• 44:20
  Mental health is not a bad thing.
• 44:21
  It's not a good thing.
• 44:22
  It is a thing that we all have and we all exist.
• 44:24
  And sometimes when we struggle with our mental health,
• 44:25
  we can struggle with believing and accepting
• 44:28
  that we're in control of our own destiny.
• 44:30
  But at the same time,
• 44:31
  like, I think it is the greatest gift
• 44:34
  you can kind of give yourself
• 44:35
  is to take back control of your own life.
• 44:36
  Absolutely.
• 44:37
  Because if you, and like all things,
• 44:39
  and again, I try not to get too political,
• 44:41
  but even religion comes into this.
• 44:43
  I think one of the worst things about organized religion,
• 44:47
  and I could go on.
• 44:48
  I could kiss you right now.
• 44:50
  God, sorry.
• 44:50
  Anyone that's on my stream
• 44:51
  who knows I hate organized religion, go ahead.
• 44:53
  Yeah, so my go-to phrase that I say to everyone
• 44:57
  is I have absolutely no problem with faith.
• 44:59
  Believe whoever and whatever you want.
• 45:01
  Organized religion, absolutely fucking hate it.
• 45:04
  So like, I do not care if you,
• 45:06
  who you believe in or what you do with that belief.
• 45:08
  What I have a problem with is organized religion
• 45:10
  that uses that belief as a weapon.
• 45:13
  But also I think that within that faith and belief,
• 45:18
  it doesn't remove accountability from yourself.
• 45:20
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 45:21
  You don't get to sit there and say,
• 45:22
  well, God has a plan, so I don't need to do anything.
• 45:26
  It's like, no, if you truly believe
• 45:28
  you were created by someone and they have a goal for you,
• 45:31
  also believe they gave you the tools
• 45:33
  and the withdrawal to go do it.
• 45:34
  You know, there's that great story
• 45:36
  about like the guy who was drowning
• 45:38
  and someone comes past him and he's like,
• 45:40
  do you need a hand?
• 45:41
  He's like, no, don't worry, God will save me.
• 45:42
  And then someone else comes to offer him hands.
• 45:44
  He's like, no, God's got it.
• 45:45
  I prayed, like, it's fine.
• 45:47
  And then when he gets to heaven, he's like,
• 45:48
  God, what the hell?
• 45:49
  And he was like, I sent you like six people.
• 45:51
  What, you know what I mean?
• 45:52
  And it's like, yeah, exactly.
• 45:54
  The whole point is like,
• 45:56
  why do you assume that it's gonna look like
• 45:57
  some divine, you know,
• 45:58
  he's not gonna give you the lottery win.
• 46:00
  He's gonna give you the tools to go out
• 46:01
  and get a better job.
• 46:02
  He's gonna give you the tools to go find it.
• 46:04
  Like, and that is what we all believe in.
• 46:07
  Yeah, yeah.
• 46:08
  And it's the same thing with fate.
• 46:09
  Like, even if you don't believe in God
• 46:10
  and you just believe that there is a destiny
• 46:12
  and that we're all determined
• 46:13
  and we're all gonna end up in a certain point anyway.
• 46:16
  Yeah, you still have to flip in douche it to get there.
• 46:18
  Like, you don't just get to ride a boat down a river
• 46:21
  and just end up at the same spot
• 46:23
  as everyone else regardless.
• 46:24
  No, you are being given choices and pathways
• 46:27
  and things to get you to that point.
• 46:29
  But if you choose not to make them,
• 46:30
  then you're not going anywhere.
• 46:31
  Like, the boat will just stall.
• 46:32
  Like, life only moves because we move it.
• 46:35
  Like, you can't just expect to get to an end goal.
• 46:37
  All that will happen is you'll die.
• 46:39
  Yeah, I was gonna say.
• 46:40
  I mean, you can quit, but you're never gonna end up
• 46:42
  where you wanted and or thought you could go.
• 46:46
  Yeah, yeah.
• 46:47
  You will never achieve your full potential
• 46:48
  if you're waiting for someone else
• 46:50
  to give you your full potential.
• 46:52
  Like, you have to go out there and flip again.
• 46:53
  Well, and they're never gonna have your interest at heart.
• 46:55
  Ever.
• 46:56
  Never.
• 46:57
  Like, they can try and they can be like,
• 46:59
  it's kind of like the whole, like,
• 47:02
  I always equate this to, like, an ex-boyfriend.
• 47:04
  I'm just like, I, you know, I see what you could do.
• 47:07
  Why can't you achieve it kind of thing?
• 47:08
  And it's like, girl, no, no.
• 47:11
  Like, things like that, you're absolutely correct,
• 47:13
  have to come from within you at some point.
• 47:16
  Even if it's just something like, I'm tired of this.
• 47:20
  That thought of, like, whatever situation you're in,
• 47:22
  I'm tired of this and I don't want this anymore.
• 47:25
  Well, now, here you go.
• 47:26
  Now, here's the first step.
• 47:27
  That's the first step.
• 47:29
  Let me think it.
• 47:30
  And then, like, just one little step
• 47:32
  to actually get yourself out of it, 100%.
• 47:35
  And, you know, I was gonna say real quick,
• 47:37
  you were talking about organized religion.
• 47:39
  And, again, we won't deep dive in this kind of thing,
• 47:42
  because, you know, we all know how that can go.
• 47:44
  But the whole-
• 47:45
  Hey, well, get in the comment section
• 47:46
  of wherever you are right now.
• 47:47
  Engage with the algorithm.
• 47:49
  Tell us what do you think went wrong.
• 47:52
  Well, and the thing is, though, it just,
• 47:54
  for me, it automatically denotes
• 47:56
  some kind of power immediately.
• 47:59
  There is a hierarchy of some kind.
• 48:00
  Otherwise, it's not fucking organized religion.
• 48:03
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 48:03
  It kind of goes against the whole organized part of that.
• 48:05
  But even tying to what we were just talking about,
• 48:08
  people have their own agendas.
• 48:10
  And if they see a pathway to get there,
• 48:14
  well, they can use it, you know what I mean?
• 48:17
  And that's the whole cherry picking and, you know.
• 48:19
  Yeah.
• 48:21
  The minute anyone ever believes they have the power
• 48:24
  to tell you you're doing something wrong,
• 48:27
  they have too much power.
• 48:29
  Like, they cannot tell you
• 48:30
  you're believing in God incorrectly,
• 48:32
  which is how organized religion works.
• 48:34
  Yes, you can believe in God, but only if you do it my way.
• 48:37
  Well, that's the biggest load of bullshit
• 48:39
  I've ever heard in my life
• 48:40
  because either I believe or I don't.
• 48:41
  Like, God doesn't give a shit
• 48:42
  whether I'm following your rules.
• 48:43
  Like, if he did, he'd come down and tell me about it.
• 48:45
  Do you know what I mean?
• 48:46
  Like, fuck you.
• 48:47
  But yeah, I have a real problem with it.
• 48:49
  But I think also, like, so I, as a streamer,
• 48:53
  like, obviously we raise a lot of money for charity.
• 48:54
  Hi, how you doing?
• 48:55
  If you ever come by my stream,
• 48:56
  give me money to charity.
• 48:57
  That's how me and Taryn got closer
• 48:59
  because I kept dragging you into charity streams.
• 49:02
  But one of the reasons I do charity,
• 49:05
  but also one of the, like, mottos that I give the stream
• 49:08
  and we talk about,
• 49:08
  because, you know, it's not about how much you raise.
• 49:10
  It's about raising awareness.
• 49:11
  It's about spreading a message.
• 49:12
  It's about being there.
• 49:13
  It's about holding yourself accountable.
• 49:14
  One of my favorite things,
• 49:15
  and I don't know where I got it,
• 49:16
  but I just know that I heard it somewhere,
• 49:18
  which is, like, that one person can't change the world,
• 49:20
  but they can change the world for one person,
• 49:23
  which is, like, the whole point of, you know,
• 49:25
  yeah, we raised a dollar that they didn't have before,
• 49:28
  but you have no idea the implications of that dollar.
• 49:30
  And, like, I always say, like, the thing as well,
• 49:32
  where someone watched our stream
• 49:34
  and then was like, I didn't know about this charity.
• 49:35
  I'm going to look into it.
• 49:36
  Okay, now I'm going to go work for it.
• 49:38
  Now I'm going to change the reach they have.
• 49:39
  Now they're going to, and like that ripple,
• 49:40
  that massive ripple that you'll never see,
• 49:43
  like, we'll never see it.
• 49:44
  We don't know.
• 49:44
  It's massive.
• 49:45
  But I always think the interesting thing about that phrase
• 49:48
  is the person you should change the world for
• 49:50
  is yourself first.
• 49:52
  Like, you change the whole world
• 49:54
  by changing the whole world for yourself,
• 49:56
  because every time you go, I'm tired of this,
• 49:59
  and you make that decision and you go for it,
• 50:01
  and then you can change the world
• 50:02
  for the person next door to you.
• 50:03
  But it's like, you know, and Boss Charlie Sims,
• 50:06
  shout out to my best friend in the entire world,
• 50:08
  her favorite phrase is, you know,
• 50:11
  put your own air mask on first.
• 50:12
  You know, if the plane's going down,
• 50:13
  put your face mask on first.
• 50:14
  And that's what so many people forget is in life,
• 50:18
  make sure you've put your own mask on first.
• 50:20
  Like, make sure you are taking care of you
• 50:23
  before you are holding on to other people
• 50:25
  and bringing them up,
• 50:26
  because otherwise you will drown under their weight
• 50:28
  and they will rise, but you can only fall.
• 50:31
  So like, I just think that people,
• 50:34
  I think it's that thing about being like,
• 50:37
  selfishness became a really big thing
• 50:38
  that everyone was like,
• 50:39
  you have to be altruistic all the time.
• 50:40
  You have to be selfish.
• 50:42
  Not selfish, selfless.
• 50:43
  Yeah, selfless.
• 50:45
  Like, they made selfishness
• 50:47
  like the biggest enemy in the world.
• 50:49
  Like, it became such a horrible thing.
• 50:51
  You only ever think about yourself.
• 50:52
  You only ever care about yourself.
• 50:53
  You're doing that for you.
• 50:54
  Be a people pleaser, look after people,
• 50:56
  care about the world.
• 50:57
  And it's like, yeah, great,
• 50:57
  but not if you forget yourself in there.
• 51:00
  It's like, once you're okay,
• 51:02
  then you can spread that.
• 51:04
  But like, if you're not okay,
• 51:06
  stop putting energy into other people.
• 51:07
  Like, stop it right now.
• 51:08
  If you're watching this, go back,
• 51:10
  put your own fucking mask on, okay?
• 51:13
  Yeah.
• 51:13
  Well, not even cure yourself,
• 51:15
  just focus on yourself.
• 51:16
  Give yourself the energy you give to others.
• 51:18
  Give yourself the grace you give to others.
• 51:20
  Give yourself all of the kindness
• 51:22
  you would give to others
• 51:23
  and just give yourself a minute.
• 51:24
  And like, I'm the worst.
• 51:25
  This is advice that I don't take.
• 51:29
  I try to these days,
• 51:30
  but like, the power from anyone
• 51:33
  gets greater when you're okay, like yourself.
• 51:35
  You know what I mean?
• 51:36
  When you've given yourself that kindness and energy
• 51:37
  and people can see it.
• 51:38
  Why would someone take advice from you
• 51:40
  when they're looking at you drowning?
• 51:42
  Like, why would someone-
• 51:44
  That all led to this, why are you-
• 51:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 51:47
  Like, I know how to help you
• 51:50
  even though I'm drowning.
• 51:51
  They're just gonna be like,
• 51:51
  okay, and walk away.
• 51:53
  They're just drowning.
• 51:53
  Like, yeah, so you have to learn to float first.
• 51:58
  Otherwise, you're not really achieving
• 51:59
  what you think you are.
• 52:00
  You're just drowning yourself
• 52:02
  and probably, unfortunately, others with you.
• 52:04
  Yeah, right, like the weight,
• 52:06
  the chain of the world, like that.
• 52:08
  You know, and to your point,
• 52:10
  this is kind of like,
• 52:12
  not even a comment or a question,
• 52:13
  but like, wrapping up a few things here.
• 52:17
  You know, I think that's kind of the interesting part
• 52:20
  of even the whole thing
• 52:21
  about one person is smart,
• 52:22
  people are stupid kind of thing.
• 52:24
  There is something to be said for
• 52:27
  when you are feeling okay,
• 52:28
  do go help others and let that chain perpetuate.
• 52:31
  But there's a whole thing about where,
• 52:34
  you know, some people,
• 52:35
  that's an organized effort
• 52:37
  that can be very difficult,
• 52:39
  especially when, not even,
• 52:40
  I'm not gonna say like weak links in the chain,
• 52:43
  but it's something that's hard to perpetuate and organize.
• 52:46
  And I only say that just because
• 52:50
  that kind of lesson of,
• 52:51
  you have to take care of yourself a little bit
• 52:52
  before you can help others,
• 52:53
  it perpetuates itself in weird ways
• 52:57
  and really strong ways too.
• 52:59
  Even from the whole thing about TTRPGs,
• 53:01
  helping out your party, not just yourself.
• 53:03
  Like a lot of people wanna be like,
• 53:03
  I'm the lone wolf character.
• 53:05
  Okay, get out then,
• 53:06
  because no one's gonna wanna help you.
• 53:08
  You're not gonna progress a story at all,
• 53:10
  even with other people.
• 53:11
  And then even beyond that too,
• 53:12
  things like you're talking about America
• 53:14
  and what's going on right now.
• 53:15
  Like, it's so hard to cut through the noise
• 53:21
  and I mean this in a general way of,
• 53:22
  that's the whole reason fascism works
• 53:24
  is because it floods the system.
• 53:26
  And so when you can't hear your own thoughts
• 53:29
  and you can't hear other people,
• 53:30
  except for just horrible shit
• 53:32
  being thrown at you every day,
• 53:35
  you can't lone wolf that.
• 53:37
  But what you can do is make sure your neighbor is okay.
• 53:41
  Like how you good?
• 53:42
  And just slowly perpetuate that type of thing
• 53:45
  and start affecting things and just going,
• 53:48
  you know, even as a character, as yourself,
• 53:50
  whatever it is,
• 53:51
  every scenario we've actually talked about today
• 53:53
  is literally just, I want something to be different.
• 53:57
  Or I want myself to be different
• 53:59
  or, you know, whatever it may be.
• 54:00
  I want this to be different.
• 54:01
  And being able to talk and reach out
• 54:05
  and actually listen, that listen part.
• 54:08
  It's so crucial to literally,
• 54:11
  like at least in my mind is like,
• 54:12
  again, this is the autism,
• 54:13
  but like the ground-based work.
• 54:16
  Yeah, just the autism speaking.
• 54:18
  Hi.
• 54:19
  Only, you know, it's that thing about
• 54:21
  seeing things from a higher view
• 54:23
  and then seeing all the red strings go together, you know.
• 54:26
  And I personally at least just believe
• 54:28
  one of those three points is just listen.
• 54:31
  And on top of that, critical thinking.
• 54:36
  And I'll say even as a character,
• 54:38
  that's part of it too,
• 54:39
  depending on how your character views the world, you know,
• 54:41
  whatever lens they're looking for,
• 54:43
  there's gotta be some kind of critical thought process
• 54:47
  to be like, okay, not that, keep this.
• 54:49
  That's not important.
• 54:49
  It's that point of view on top of those things.
• 54:52
  But I think everything is very important
• 54:54
  from what you talked about.
• 54:56
  Yeah, and I think that is the crucial thing as well,
• 54:58
  is that when we say listen,
• 55:00
  like we don't just mean here.
• 55:02
  Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:04
  And I think some people are like, yeah, I do listen.
• 55:06
  It's like, do you though?
• 55:08
  Because you, and it's the same thing I think about
• 55:10
  when people are like, yeah, I see you.
• 55:11
  And it's like, you don't see me.
• 55:13
  Like you look at me,
• 55:14
  but I don't think you've ever seen me as a person.
• 55:16
  And it's the same thing as like, you hear me,
• 55:17
  like you listen, but you don't hear me.
• 55:19
  Like you can be in a room, like TTRPGs are great ones.
• 55:23
  Like, and I think one of the skills people can learn
• 55:27
  from TTRPGs and just in general storytelling is,
• 55:30
  and we used to do it as kids.
• 55:31
  I don't know if you ever did it.
• 55:32
  Do you ever do like comprehension books?
• 55:34
  Was that a thing like at school for you?
• 55:35
  So we used to have to do the reading
• 55:37
  where you'd read a full story
• 55:38
  and then you had to answer the questions.
• 55:39
  And I always think like, for me,
• 55:42
  it's the recaps that you get the players to do
• 55:44
  because you hear,
• 55:46
  you get to find out what they heard from what you said.
• 55:49
  So like I did a session and then we did the next session.
• 55:52
  I made the players do the full recap for me,
• 55:54
  which is normally something I do.
• 55:55
  Cause I enjoy recaps.
• 55:56
  They're funny.
• 55:57
  I always like try and make it silly,
• 55:58
  but I made the players do it in just a sense
• 56:00
  of were you actually paying attention kind of thing.
• 56:02
  And it just proper, like my brain was like, oh, okay.
• 56:06
  These are the things that's important
• 56:08
  to my characters there in that story
• 56:10
  because they're the bits they picked up on.
• 56:12
  They didn't give a shit about this.
• 56:13
  They didn't give a shit about that.
• 56:15
  But also it was for me a lesson of, okay,
• 56:16
  the way I delivered a certain thing obviously didn't work
• 56:18
  because it was important to the story
• 56:21
  and they haven't remembered it.
• 56:22
  It's not retained in their brains.
• 56:24
  So what did I do to not engage them with that part?
• 56:27
  And what can I do better in the future?
• 56:29
  And I think that's one of the things that, I don't know.
• 56:31
  It's like, again, I like I'm undiagnosed
• 56:35
  on any particular thing.
• 56:36
  Not that that doesn't mean I don't have them,
• 56:39
  but I always think that like,
• 56:41
  there's an interesting thing in how I relate to people
• 56:44
  is I used to, and I've kind of talked myself out of it.
• 56:47
  And I kind of hate that about myself,
• 56:48
  but I used to, when they tell me a story about themselves,
• 56:51
  my response would be to tell a similar story about myself
• 56:54
  to show that I listened, I understood.
• 56:55
  And this is like a situation I went through,
• 56:58
  which is why I can understand that we can talk about this.
• 57:00
  And obviously people say, oh, that's really bad.
• 57:02
  It's really selfish.
• 57:03
  Like, why are you making it about yourself?
• 57:04
  And it's like, no,
• 57:05
  it's my way of recapping your story back to you
• 57:07
  without actively just recapping your story back to you.
• 57:10
  Because like, for me,
• 57:12
  sometimes I wanna do the job interview style
• 57:13
  where I'm like, so what I'm hearing you say is X, Y, Z.
• 57:17
  And what I'm taking from that is,
• 57:19
  and you can't do that in friendships
• 57:21
  and you can't do that in conversations,
• 57:22
  but sometimes I feel like you need to,
• 57:23
  because sometimes I feel like you need to turn around
• 57:25
  to your friend and go, right, you said a lot there.
• 57:27
  I heard some things, which bits of that was important to you
• 57:30
  because my brain focused on this
• 57:32
  because it's relevant to my life.
• 57:34
  But were you trying to tell me about this?
• 57:36
  And I think one of the greatest like faults of friendships
• 57:39
  is people don't check in like with what they heard.
• 57:44
  I was watching a,
• 57:45
  there's a podcast on YouTube called Secondhand Therapy
• 57:48
  and it's absolutely amazing.
• 57:50
  And it's two guys who both go to different therapy sessions
• 57:52
  and then they podcast about it
• 57:54
  and they chat to each other about their own therapy.
• 57:56
  And they are so interesting.
• 57:58
  They're both going through very different journeys in life,
• 58:00
  but they were talking the other day
• 58:02
  and one of the guys is going through grief at the moment.
• 58:04
  And he said, I don't have an answer to your question.
• 58:07
  And the other guy was, I didn't ask you a question.
• 58:10
  And he was like, yeah, you did.
• 58:11
  And he was like, no, I really didn't.
• 58:12
  And he said, yeah, you wanna know
• 58:14
  why I haven't just got over it yet.
• 58:16
  And the guy turned around and he was like,
• 58:18
  that might be what you heard, but that is not what I said.
• 58:20
  And I was just like, and that is the exact summary
• 58:23
  that we often need in our lives
• 58:24
  is to someone recap what they heard.
• 58:27
  So you can be like, no, because that is not what I said.
• 58:31
  Because we hear through our own filters a lot of the time.
• 58:34
  And I think one of the dangerous things in stories
• 58:38
  is that you have conversations, everything.
• 58:39
  And it's interesting.
• 58:40
  If you talk to someone about the Hunger Games
• 58:41
  or you talk to someone about D&D
• 58:43
  or you talk to someone about anything,
• 58:45
  their take on it and their moments that they pick up on
• 58:48
  and you sit there and you think,
• 58:49
  really, that's what you got from that?
• 58:51
  Like, that's what you took from that?
• 58:53
  Because I think it tells you, again,
• 58:55
  like I was saying about when people tell you
• 58:56
  they wanna have a purple building
• 58:58
  or they wanna have a hooker
• 58:59
  that maybe does a certain dance to a certain song.
• 59:02
  So we should definitely have, you know,
• 59:03
  Shania Twain shit and make it all leopard print.
• 59:06
  If you can learn so much about a person
• 59:10
  that that's where their brain went and that's the process.
• 59:12
  And I think you also can learn a lot about people
• 59:15
  about what they hear when you speak.
• 59:17
  Like, okay, I just said something.
• 59:18
  Repeat it back.
• 59:19
  What did you hear me say?
• 59:21
  Because you did not hear what I,
• 59:24
  I'd love to be in a room with everyone
• 59:27
  who watches this back or listens to this back
• 59:30
  and then do a recap with them and say,
• 59:31
  okay, what was that about?
• 59:32
  What did we talk about?
• 59:34
  Because I guarantee you every single person
• 59:36
  would give us a different answer.
• 59:37
  And it's so intriguing to me
• 59:39
  because how do we ever as human beings communicate?
• 59:42
  Because we never fucking, like, we are like,
• 59:46
  the whisper game is humanity.
• 59:50
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 59:50
  Nothing ever passes through two people
• 59:53
  without going through their own personal filter.
• 59:55
  Like it's physically impossible.
• 59:56
  And it's just so, it fascinates me.
• 59:58
  It genuinely does.
• 1:00:00
  But also like, I hate that for some reason,
• 1:00:03
  like that recall or that recap or that questioning people
• 1:00:07
  is considered like rude to a level.
• 1:00:09
  And it's like, it shouldn't be.
• 1:00:10
  Like, I should be allowed to ask you clarifying questions.
• 1:00:12
  It wasn't because I wasn't listening.
• 1:00:14
  It's because I want to make sure
• 1:00:15
  what I heard is what you said.
• 1:00:17
  Like, and great friendships don't challenge that.
• 1:00:19
  Great friendships are like, yeah, sure.
• 1:00:20
  Like, you know, check in with me.
• 1:00:22
  Like, yeah.
• 1:00:23
  But polited, like getting to know you shit, it's rude.
• 1:00:26
  And I hate it.
• 1:00:27
  And again, for stories.
• 1:00:28
  100%.
• 1:00:29
  And I, one of my most personally,
• 1:00:32
  and see, this is very interesting.
• 1:00:33
  One of my most personal, like really frustrating storylines
• 1:00:37
  is when people just misunderstand each other
• 1:00:39
  and then they go about their day and they're just still bad.
• 1:00:41
  That's the whole plot.
• 1:00:42
  I hate that shit.
• 1:00:43
  But I wanted to touch on something real quick
• 1:00:45
  because you mentioned it of, see, cause I just did it.
• 1:00:48
  I shared something about way I view things
• 1:00:51
  because of something you said.
• 1:00:52
  But for me, that is a hopeful way to show empathy
• 1:00:56
  and that I heard you.
• 1:00:58
  And I totally get what you're talking about.
• 1:00:59
  Cause I've had many people in my life that are like,
• 1:01:03
  why are you trying to one-up me?
• 1:01:04
  Or is it about you?
• 1:01:05
  And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 1:01:06
  I'm just trying to show you that I,
• 1:01:08
  I connected with what you said.
• 1:01:11
  And saying something like the phrase,
• 1:01:13
  I connected with what you said.
• 1:01:17
  It feels either disingenuous or like, I'm trying to play.
• 1:01:20
  Sounds like bullshit.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah.
• 1:01:22
  Like you're talking to a five-year-old.
• 1:01:24
  I heard what you said that you wanted the scissors,
• 1:01:26
  but they are sharp and going to kill you.
• 1:01:28
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:29
  Like it's a very placating feeling.
• 1:01:31
  And, you know, I really wanted to point out though,
• 1:01:34
  or just maybe pin something on that,
• 1:01:37
  especially cause you were like, you know,
• 1:01:38
  how have we communicated?
• 1:01:40
  There's a total difference to,
• 1:01:42
  not even like from the side of the listener,
• 1:01:44
  but the side of the communicator.
• 1:01:46
  That moment where you get to question and ask,
• 1:01:48
  or you go, hey, can you clarify this?
• 1:01:51
  There's also a lesson there of,
• 1:01:53
  how do I actually communicate?
• 1:01:55
  And can I communicate well?
• 1:01:58
  You know, that's things like,
• 1:02:00
  do the words match the facial expression?
• 1:02:02
  Does the energy of the body also match?
• 1:02:06
  Like, did I just hear that correctly?
• 1:02:09
  At least for me it's a very artistic thing, but it's true.
• 1:02:13
  This is why I'm saying like,
• 1:02:14
  everyone should DM or everyone should play a TTLBG,
• 1:02:16
  because that's how you learn that about yourself.
• 1:02:18
  Absolutely.
• 1:02:19
  Because I, like I said, yeah.
• 1:02:21
  The recap of what they took from what I said,
• 1:02:24
  taught me that I didn't empathize things correctly.
• 1:02:29
  Words are hard, okay.
• 1:02:30
  It's like 11 o'clock at night for me.
• 1:02:34
  But yeah, like, so you learn,
• 1:02:37
  but also like you learn the weight to your words.
• 1:02:41
  Yes.
• 1:02:42
  So you learn that because you did casually
• 1:02:44
  throw out a sentence about Joe Bloggs
• 1:02:46
  who worked at the blacksmith,
• 1:02:48
  they picked up on that and they decided
• 1:02:49
  that was an important character.
• 1:02:51
  And it wasn't like, it was just a dude in a story
• 1:02:54
  for setting a scene,
• 1:02:55
  but you have to, you learn the value of your words
• 1:02:58
  and how you choose to deliver them.
• 1:03:00
  And I think it's such an important thing
• 1:03:02
  that everyone should learn,
• 1:03:03
  that your words do have consequences,
• 1:03:05
  that your words have weight with people.
• 1:03:07
  And also that you have no control
• 1:03:10
  over how someone hears your words.
• 1:03:13
  You only have control over how you deliver them.
• 1:03:15
  So if you want to make sure they're delivered the right way,
• 1:03:18
  A, put the work and the effort in
• 1:03:19
  to make sure you're being clear,
• 1:03:21
  but also B, you have to make sure
• 1:03:23
  to make sure you're being clear,
• 1:03:24
  but also B, check in.
• 1:03:28
  I am one of the most sarcastic bitches on the planet.
• 1:03:30
  I'm British, it just comes with our nature.
• 1:03:33
  But I sometimes have to check with my friends
• 1:03:36
  because if I text sarcasm to them,
• 1:03:38
  they don't know what I'm saying.
• 1:03:39
  They have no idea.
• 1:03:40
  But it's my responsibility in that moment
• 1:03:43
  to send them a message and be like,
• 1:03:45
  yeah, that was sarcasm, by the way.
• 1:03:46
  It's not their responsibility to clarify with me what I said
• 1:03:50
  because I'm the one delivering the message.
• 1:03:53
  I think there is a give and take in it
• 1:03:54
  of there is a responsibility as a listener
• 1:03:56
  to be able to be comfortable to say,
• 1:03:58
  hey, this is what I took from you.
• 1:03:59
  This is my recap of the 20 seconds you just spoke.
• 1:04:02
  Is that right?
• 1:04:03
  Active listening, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:04
  Ask questions that are relevant to what you just heard
• 1:04:06
  to make sure that what you heard was correct.
• 1:04:08
  But also as a talker and as a storyteller and as a person,
• 1:04:12
  we have a responsibility to think about what we just said
• 1:04:15
  and make sure it lands correctly with people
• 1:04:17
  because I fully believe that everyone
• 1:04:20
  is allowed to get offended
• 1:04:21
  and the world should be full of offense.
• 1:04:23
  Like just because you're offended
• 1:04:25
  doesn't mean I have to change who I am.
• 1:04:27
  Like I'm allowed to offend you
• 1:04:28
  and you're allowed to be offended and that is all right.
• 1:04:30
  Thank God for free speech.
• 1:04:31
  But also if I didn't intend to offend you
• 1:04:34
  or if your offense actually comes
• 1:04:38
  from you misunderstanding what I said,
• 1:04:40
  then I have a responsibility to clear that up.
• 1:04:42
  If I said what I said and it offends you,
• 1:04:44
  then I have a choice to make
• 1:04:45
  about whether I wanna change what I said
• 1:04:47
  or whether I'm okay with you being offended by what I said.
• 1:04:50
  But like if you don't intend to hurt people
• 1:04:52
  and you hurt people,
• 1:04:53
  you're the one with the responsibility.
• 1:04:55
  You don't get to say to them,
• 1:04:56
  well, I'm sorry that it hurt your feelings.
• 1:04:58
  No, no, no.
• 1:04:59
  You get to say, let me rephrase it then
• 1:05:02
  so you understand what I was saying.
• 1:05:04
  I think the worst thing you can ever say to someone,
• 1:05:06
  I'm sorry that you took it in a way that upset you
• 1:05:09
  or I'm sorry that what you heard hurt you.
• 1:05:12
  And storytelling as well.
• 1:05:13
  Like I'm sorry that like the part of the story I took
• 1:05:16
  that you took to mean that.
• 1:05:17
  Like there's a author getting canceled right now
• 1:05:20
  because she wrote a bit that was definitely racist.
• 1:05:23
  And her backlash to that was like,
• 1:05:25
  I'm sorry if you read that as racist.
• 1:05:27
  And it's like, no, no, no, no.
• 1:05:30
  Ownership.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Ownership, you don't get to tell people.
• 1:05:38
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 1:05:38
  Like you can be like, yes, you're correct.
• 1:05:40
  It was racist and I am not.
• 1:05:41
  Or like, yes, I'm not apologizing for the phrasing.
• 1:05:44
  I think it, but she wasn't.
• 1:05:45
  She was just like, no, I wasn't racist.
• 1:05:46
  And no, you guys are interpreting it wrong.
• 1:05:48
  It was like.
• 1:05:50
  Yeah, like you've kind of done the whole creative thing
• 1:05:54
  of I've made something and now I just get it,
• 1:05:57
  you know, just put it into the world.
• 1:05:59
  And people are gonna have different views on that
• 1:06:00
  no matter what.
• 1:06:01
  And I will put just another thought in our heads
• 1:06:05
  on top of those things of just, there's a real,
• 1:06:07
  and I'm gonna loop this back to the very beginning
• 1:06:10
  of the first thing we were talking about.
• 1:06:12
  Smell.
• 1:06:13
  Well, it's again, the way my brain works.
• 1:06:15
  But there's a real introspection of,
• 1:06:20
  do I want this to continue?
• 1:06:22
  And do I want that person to still engage with me
• 1:06:25
  in the examples you were talking about, right?
• 1:06:27
  Like if I've said something that offended somebody
• 1:06:29
  and I can tell they have offended
• 1:06:31
  or they just don't wanna talk to me
• 1:06:32
  because they haven't talked to me,
• 1:06:33
  they've ghosted, you know, whatever it may be.
• 1:06:35
  Some true action is trying to infer something to me.
• 1:06:38
  Then the question I think then becomes of,
• 1:06:41
  do I wanna put forth the effort to try to get them back?
• 1:06:43
  Or like, you know, explain myself
• 1:06:44
  so we can continue some kind of relationship.
• 1:06:47
  And, oh man.
• 1:06:49
  And I say, I bring that back to the beginning
• 1:06:51
  because it kind of goes to the whole,
• 1:06:54
  if you don't finish a book,
• 1:06:56
  but I value my time more than other times kind of thing.
• 1:06:58
  And you really gotta have that introspective moment
• 1:07:01
  of, God, what do I want this to be?
• 1:07:03
  And then also to the middle of the conversation of,
• 1:07:05
  I want this to change.
• 1:07:06
  Anyway, yeah.
• 1:07:07
  So.
• 1:07:08
  No, no, no, I get you when you're done.
• 1:07:10
  Yeah, we've really well told this story.
• 1:07:13
  But I think that's a really valuable point
• 1:07:15
  about friendships and just your own time.
• 1:07:17
  Like we were saying from the very beginning,
• 1:07:18
  like you have to put a certain worth on your own time.
• 1:07:20
  Is one of the things I hate is when people say,
• 1:07:23
  I put all the effort in and you don't put any effort in,
• 1:07:25
  therefore you're a shit friend to the other person.
• 1:07:27
  And it's like, no, no, no.
• 1:07:29
  You choose how much time and effort you put in
• 1:07:32
  based on how much they're worth to you.
• 1:07:35
  Like how much you value that friendship,
• 1:07:37
  how much you value that everything.
• 1:07:38
  You are the person.
• 1:07:40
  You are the only person who gets to decide
• 1:07:41
  how much time and effort you put into anything.
• 1:07:44
  They get to do the same,
• 1:07:45
  but also they value their time on a different scale to you.
• 1:07:50
  You will never know it.
• 1:07:51
  You will never understand it.
• 1:07:52
  It is like weird currencies that none of us understand
• 1:07:55
  because we all value ourselves.
• 1:07:56
  So for them giving you 20 minutes
• 1:07:59
  could be the equivalent of you giving them seven hours.
• 1:08:02
  You will never know.
• 1:08:03
  And you do not get to decide that for them.
• 1:08:05
  You do not get to say to them,
• 1:08:06
  I demand seven hours of your time every week
• 1:08:08
  because I give you seven hours of mine
• 1:08:11
  because you are not in their shoes.
• 1:08:12
  You are not in their brain.
• 1:08:12
  You do not know their life.
• 1:08:14
  So I think boundaries are important.
• 1:08:16
  And I also think that you absolutely get to say
• 1:08:19
  this friendship is not worth my time
• 1:08:21
  because I am putting in so much time
• 1:08:22
  and getting nothing out of it.
• 1:08:24
  You can say that.
• 1:08:25
  What you cannot do is demand they change their behavior
• 1:08:28
  and up their time input.
• 1:08:30
  They get to decide what they want to do
• 1:08:33
  with their time and their actions.
• 1:08:34
  And I think people seem to believe
• 1:08:37
  that boundaries are something
• 1:08:39
  they can enforce on other people
• 1:08:41
  instead of realizing that boundaries
• 1:08:43
  are what you enforce on yourself.
• 1:08:45
  Boundaries are things that you can tell other people about.
• 1:08:48
  You can be like, that's my boundary.
• 1:08:49
  You crossed it.
• 1:08:50
  Therefore, I now get to make decisions
• 1:08:52
  based on that information.
• 1:08:54
  But you can't say to someone,
• 1:08:55
  I need you to act a certain way for the rest of your life
• 1:08:58
  because that's their boundaries
• 1:08:59
  and their decisions and their choices.
• 1:09:01
  It's not yours.
• 1:09:02
  You just get to do and decide with what you do.
• 1:09:05
  And it's the same with time.
• 1:09:06
  And like, again, everything, storytelling,
• 1:09:09
  DMing, Twitch streaming, all of it ties in together.
• 1:09:13
  It's all about your time and your value.
• 1:09:15
  And it's all about, as a DM, like you get to decide
• 1:09:19
  if you want to put in six hours prep time
• 1:09:21
  or 20 hours prep time or a lifetime of prep time.
• 1:09:26
  You don't get to force your players
• 1:09:27
  to put in 20 hours of prep time.
• 1:09:29
  You don't get to force your players
• 1:09:31
  to turn up an hour before the session.
• 1:09:32
  They are telling you they're here for the three hours.
• 1:09:34
  That's the value.
• 1:09:35
  They can decide how much time
• 1:09:36
  and thought they put in beforehand.
• 1:09:38
  But what you do get to do is dictate when you're in there
• 1:09:40
  and you're in that room and you're in that three hours
• 1:09:42
  that everyone's engaged and everyone's, you know,
• 1:09:44
  part of it because that is your three hours of time
• 1:09:46
  you're giving them.
• 1:09:47
  So you need some give back and that's fine.
• 1:09:48
  You can say that.
• 1:09:49
  You can be like, hey guys,
• 1:09:50
  if you're not going to give in this three hours
• 1:09:51
  what I give you, I can't do it
• 1:09:53
  because it's like I'm pulling teeth.
• 1:09:55
  That's fine.
• 1:09:56
  But you can't be like you guys
• 1:09:56
  and put in your 20 hours of homework.
• 1:09:58
  Like, no, you don't get to do that.
• 1:10:00
  This is probably very American of me.
• 1:10:04
  But I like to think of boundaries as rules of engagement
• 1:10:07
  because, you know, this is the way that I show up
• 1:10:10
  to a game, let's say, to a D&D game.
• 1:10:12
  And this kind of goes along with lines and veils.
• 1:10:15
  And if you're unaware of what those are,
• 1:10:17
  those are safety tools to use during tabletop games
• 1:10:19
  and other things of just like, hey, a line is like,
• 1:10:22
  I don't want to talk about this.
• 1:10:23
  I don't want to do it.
• 1:10:24
  A veil is like, it can exist,
• 1:10:26
  but like, can we not dwell on it?
• 1:10:27
  So anyway, but I think of boundaries that way
• 1:10:31
  as rules of engagement, because like, hey,
• 1:10:33
  I'm cool being in this game
• 1:10:35
  as long as there's like no harm to things
• 1:10:38
  that cannot defend themselves.
• 1:10:40
  And like, great detail.
• 1:10:41
  Like, that doesn't need to be there kind of thing.
• 1:10:43
  And I just, I love it.
• 1:10:46
  I love the way that you think about that,
• 1:10:47
  because I mean, but as a Twitch streamer,
• 1:10:49
  it's also very true.
• 1:10:51
  You know, you have literally just an open door to your room
• 1:10:54
  and you can't see faces.
• 1:10:56
  If you're like,
• 1:10:57
  maybe you don't even know how many people are there.
• 1:10:59
  Like, you know, it's very much-
• 1:11:01
  Twitch streamers, turn off your view account.
• 1:11:03
  Never look at it.
• 1:11:03
  Please do, God.
• 1:11:05
  It's the worst.
• 1:11:06
  And even if you have a fairly good,
• 1:11:08
  like healthy mental health regimen,
• 1:11:10
  it's still the worst.
• 1:11:11
  Just turn it off.
• 1:11:12
  It's not worth it.
• 1:11:14
  You know, to do something like that
• 1:11:16
  and engage literally with anything,
• 1:11:19
  the boundaries have to be there for yourself.
• 1:11:21
  I mean, they don't have to be.
• 1:11:22
  You will have a much healthier experience if you do.
• 1:11:25
  100%.
• 1:11:26
  And I also think with that is that,
• 1:11:29
  like, so for me as well,
• 1:11:30
  like I was saying about boundaries,
• 1:11:31
  boundaries are what you put on yourself.
• 1:11:32
  They're not what you put on other people.
• 1:11:33
  And that is like what you're prepared to talk about,
• 1:11:35
  what you're prepared to do.
• 1:11:36
  And if people step over those boundaries,
• 1:11:37
  especially in Twitch,
• 1:11:38
  Twitch is a slightly different environment
• 1:11:39
  because you can remove people.
• 1:11:41
  Like if they are making you uncomfortable in your space,
• 1:11:43
  it's your space.
• 1:11:44
  You have control over that space
• 1:11:45
  so you can remove them from it.
• 1:11:47
  One of the things I will say about boundaries
• 1:11:48
  that are your own control
• 1:11:49
  and you know, you can't force them on other people
• 1:11:52
  is that situation changes if you are in a space
• 1:11:55
  the person can't leave by choice.
• 1:11:57
  So if you're locked in a room with someone,
• 1:12:00
  you don't get to be a dick and cross their boundaries
• 1:12:01
  when you know they have not got the option
• 1:12:03
  to remove themselves from that situation.
• 1:12:05
  And that is the only time in my mind it really changes.
• 1:12:07
  Like when people, if people used to come into my stream
• 1:12:10
  and be like, oh, why are you swearing?
• 1:12:11
  Why are you being filthy?
• 1:12:12
  Why are you doing this?
• 1:12:13
  Leave.
• 1:12:14
  Like, why are you here?
• 1:12:16
  Like, yeah, you are not trapped in a room with me.
• 1:12:19
  Like, I don't, what is your problem?
• 1:12:21
  Like, did you, do you not know how to close a browser?
• 1:12:23
  Like, do you need instructions?
• 1:12:25
  Like, what is your problem?
• 1:12:27
  Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  So like, I feel in that situation
• 1:12:30
  that no one gets to put boundaries on me
• 1:12:32
  because you can leave.
• 1:12:33
  I'm here, it's my space.
• 1:12:35
  But if I go into someone else's space,
• 1:12:37
  or if I, like, you know,
• 1:12:39
  if you go into someone else's stream, they can't leave.
• 1:12:42
  The only way for them to leave that is to end stream,
• 1:12:44
  which is like an unrealistic expectation of someone
• 1:12:47
  to be like, you're upsetting me.
• 1:12:48
  So I'm going to end my whole stream
• 1:12:50
  that I've, you know, prepped myself for,
• 1:12:51
  got my headspace into.
• 1:12:52
  I'm supposed to be at four hours.
• 1:12:53
  I'm going to leave after 30 minutes
• 1:12:54
  because you're being a dick.
• 1:12:56
  Like, that's unrealistic.
• 1:12:57
  So you have a responsibility
• 1:12:58
  when you go into someone else's space
• 1:12:59
  to respect their boundaries then.
• 1:13:01
  But like, other than that, you know,
• 1:13:02
  boundaries are our own internal mechanisms in my opinion.
• 1:13:05
  But yeah, I just,
• 1:13:08
  I think I honestly genuinely believe
• 1:13:11
  more people just need to play D&D or TTRPGs.
• 1:13:14
  Absolutely agree, yeah.
• 1:13:16
  I just think it teaches you so much about people.
• 1:13:18
  It teaches you so much about yourself.
• 1:13:19
  And also it reminds you of, like, hope.
• 1:13:24
  And, you know, people, you know,
• 1:13:26
  everyone loves an underdog story.
• 1:13:28
  And I always think that, like,
• 1:13:29
  you get that chance in D&D to remember what it feels like
• 1:13:33
  to make changes and to have consequences.
• 1:13:36
  Because I feel like in D&D there,
• 1:13:38
  those consequences are obvious.
• 1:13:39
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:13:40
  Like, in D&D, the DM will tell you,
• 1:13:43
  yeah, you know, you guys picked a fight with that guy.
• 1:13:45
  So now two sessions later,
• 1:13:46
  that's why you're getting your ass kicked.
• 1:13:47
  That is the consequences of your actions.
• 1:13:49
  I think in life, it's a lot harder
• 1:13:50
  for us to see that big picture
• 1:13:51
  and to see those consequences and be like,
• 1:13:53
  oh, this is happening to me now
• 1:13:54
  because I did this five years ago,
• 1:13:56
  or I did this two weeks ago,
• 1:13:57
  or we don't feel it.
• 1:13:59
  So therefore we don't track it as openly.
• 1:14:01
  And we're like, life doesn't matter.
• 1:14:03
  Nothing matters.
• 1:14:04
  I can't change anything.
• 1:14:04
  I can't do anything.
• 1:14:06
  Whereas if you had a narrator narrating your life
• 1:14:09
  who could call back every time something happens,
• 1:14:12
  like, this good thing is happening
• 1:14:13
  because you did a good thing two weeks ago,
• 1:14:15
  because you made that choice,
• 1:14:16
  because you made that decision.
• 1:14:18
  Or, hey, maybe, maybe the reason you're broke
• 1:14:21
  and crying on a Friday night
• 1:14:23
  is because you chose to buy that Lego set two weeks ago.
• 1:14:25
  So you don't have any money.
• 1:14:28
  Or maybe the way you're feeling miserable this morning
• 1:14:29
  is because you've been drinking for three days in a row.
• 1:14:31
  Maybe it's your own choices that are reflecting on you.
• 1:14:34
  Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 1:14:35
  The Lego set, definitely.
• 1:14:36
  Yeah, I was like, that hurts.
• 1:14:38
  Yeah.
• 1:14:39
  Well, like if we all had narrators,
• 1:14:41
  like we all had DMs,
• 1:14:44
  the self-realization people would have
• 1:14:46
  about how much they are influencing
• 1:14:48
  their own lives every day would be immense
• 1:14:51
  and would be so beneficial.
• 1:14:52
  There's a film that's based on a book, I think,
• 1:14:55
  with Will Ferrell and Emma Thompson.
• 1:14:57
  And Emma Thompson is an author writing this guy's life.
• 1:15:01
  And he realizes he's part of a book.
• 1:15:03
  Can't remember what it's called,
• 1:15:04
  but it's such a good film.
• 1:15:05
  I need to watch it.
• 1:15:06
  And it's like, he hears her voice in his head
• 1:15:10
  and he's, Stranger Than Fiction.
• 1:15:11
  I think it's called Stranger Than Fiction.
• 1:15:12
  Oh, I was gonna say,
• 1:15:13
  because I'm like, I love that movie.
• 1:15:15
  Okay, sorry for all Will Ferrell people.
• 1:15:17
  That's the only movie I like his.
• 1:15:19
  Yeah, no, I'm not really a big fan of him,
• 1:15:20
  but I love that movie too.
• 1:15:22
  What is it?
• 1:15:22
  Yeah, that is, is it Emma Thompson?
• 1:15:23
  I don't know.
• 1:15:24
  The narrator anywhere who's writing his story
• 1:15:26
  and he starts hearing a voice and whatever.
• 1:15:29
  And I always think that would be the craziest thing
• 1:15:31
  if you realize that is if you had a narrator every day
• 1:15:34
  that was like, yeah, this is a recap of the last week.
• 1:15:37
  Because wouldn't it be great if someone told us
• 1:15:40
  all the good things?
• 1:15:40
  No, because that's the whole point.
• 1:15:43
  I only say that because the immediate thought I had
• 1:15:45
  was like, hey, remember when you did that dumb thing
• 1:15:48
  the other day?
• 1:15:49
  And I'm like, no.
• 1:15:50
  And the narrator's like, yeah, you did.
• 1:15:51
  I'm like, no.
• 1:15:52
  That part would be horrible.
• 1:15:53
  What you're talking about would be wonderful, yeah.
• 1:15:55
  Yeah.
• 1:15:56
  But I also think it's again,
• 1:15:57
  that perspective of that nobody cares,
• 1:16:01
  which is also my other thing,
• 1:16:03
  which if you're a DM, storyteller, whatever,
• 1:16:06
  like the DM can describe a whole town to you, right?
• 1:16:10
  And there's a bunch of people in it.
• 1:16:12
  And these people walk in who probably look a bit weird
• 1:16:15
  and are probably a bit weird.
• 1:16:17
  And if you're a good DM,
• 1:16:19
  you don't suddenly decide that the entire town
• 1:16:22
  turns and looks at them and is like,
• 1:16:24
  these strangers have entered.
• 1:16:26
  We must do something.
• 1:16:27
  And they all have an exclamation mark, oddly enough.
• 1:16:29
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:31
  It's not fucking getting, guys.
• 1:16:32
  But like, you know, like NPCs don't care
• 1:16:36
  what the PCs are doing
• 1:16:37
  unless they're directly interacting with them.
• 1:16:39
  You know what I mean?
• 1:16:40
  And like, we all need to just remember that in life
• 1:16:43
  is that most of the time,
• 1:16:45
  the NPCs don't give a shit what you're doing.
• 1:16:48
  Like they do not know that you've had a bad hair day.
• 1:16:50
  They do not care that you spilled coffee on your top.
• 1:16:53
  They did not see you trip.
• 1:16:55
  And even if they did,
• 1:16:56
  they have bigger shit going on in their own head
• 1:16:58
  and they forgot about it three seconds later.
• 1:17:01
  And they're not spending the next month going,
• 1:17:02
  oh my God, let me tell you about this woman
• 1:17:05
  who tripped on the street.
• 1:17:07
  Like you are not the highlight of anyone's life
• 1:17:10
  unless you're doing something good and positive
• 1:17:12
  or something really shitty.
• 1:17:13
  Like the only time we really influence people
• 1:17:15
  is when we make a choice to do something great
• 1:17:17
  or something shit.
• 1:17:18
  Most of the time, we're all just NPCs
• 1:17:20
  in each other's lives.
• 1:17:21
  Like that's just-
• 1:17:22
  I do just want to say as a PSA maybe,
• 1:17:25
  teeny tiny little soapbox,
• 1:17:27
  tell people when they do good shit for you
• 1:17:29
  or that you appreciate them or whatever it may be.
• 1:17:32
  Like for the love of God,
• 1:17:33
  I know it can be awkward for a lot of people to,
• 1:17:37
  you know, go, hey, you have affected me positively,
• 1:17:42
  but it's really fucking important.
• 1:17:43
  And especially, I know again,
• 1:17:46
  this is more of a US centric problem.
• 1:17:49
  Especially right now, man, just let people know
• 1:17:53
  that they've done something good for you
• 1:17:54
  or that you really appreciate them, whatever it may be.
• 1:17:58
  It goes a long way in helping that exact scenario
• 1:18:03
  of not being stuck in a cycle of like,
• 1:18:05
  I just did something very stupid.
• 1:18:07
  I'll think about this for the rest of my life
• 1:18:09
  in that kind of horrible down,
• 1:18:12
  self down part, if you will.
• 1:18:14
  And here I am going to flip that directly on you,
• 1:18:17
  Ms. Taryn.
• 1:18:17
  Ms. Taryn, is when people say that to you,
• 1:18:21
  try and hear it.
• 1:18:22
  I do, and I'm gonna say, I do probably hear you though,
• 1:18:26
  because, you know, streaming is such a weird experience
• 1:18:31
  and we've been doing it for five years.
• 1:18:32
  And in the beginning, especially,
• 1:18:35
  it's real hard to just say fucking thank you.
• 1:18:39
  Just the phrase, thank you.
• 1:18:40
  It's difficult.
• 1:18:41
  And after streaming for five years,
• 1:18:43
  it's only been realistically in the last maybe two years
• 1:18:46
  where I've been able just to push that part down
• 1:18:50
  that just goes, no, don't do that,
• 1:18:51
  to thank you, I really appreciate it.
• 1:18:54
  Whether it's like gifting something streaming,
• 1:18:56
  you know, like bits or whatever,
• 1:18:58
  like in compliments.
• 1:18:59
  It's unfortunate that for most,
• 1:19:03
  a lot of people I'll say, I don't know if it's most,
• 1:19:06
  that a lot of us will just be like,
• 1:19:07
  no, no, no, no, no, that's weird.
• 1:19:09
  Like, I'm not like that,
• 1:19:10
  but you don't know what's going on inside my head.
• 1:19:12
  Shut the fuck up and just say thank you
• 1:19:14
  and let it permeate and osmosis into you.
• 1:19:18
  It's hard, yeah.
• 1:19:19
  But it's really needed.
• 1:19:21
  Yes, I am in a very privileged position.
• 1:19:23
  I'm really bad at accepting gifts,
• 1:19:25
  especially monetary ones.
• 1:19:26
  It makes it, and it's not that it makes me feel awkward
• 1:19:28
  in the sense that I'm like,
• 1:19:30
  hey, why are you giving me money, you weirdos?
• 1:19:32
  But it just, I am quite comfortable in my life
• 1:19:35
  and it's not a job for me.
• 1:19:35
  Twitch is not a job.
• 1:19:37
  I have a job.
• 1:19:38
  You know, I have a full-time job.
• 1:19:39
  It pays my wage.
• 1:19:40
  So for me, yes, money is appreciated.
• 1:19:43
  Thank you, I'll go buy myself a coffee
• 1:19:44
  or I'll buy myself a drink
• 1:19:46
  or like, I will, you know, buy Lego
• 1:19:48
  if that's what you guys buy me
• 1:19:50
  and if you buy me sweets or treats,
• 1:19:51
  yeah, fucking thank you.
• 1:19:52
  I get so excited when I open parcels
• 1:19:53
  that have come that I didn't order
• 1:19:55
  because that's the greatest feeling ever.
• 1:19:56
  Like, no one's ever gonna complain about that.
• 1:19:58
  But I am really bad at saying thank you
• 1:19:59
  and appreciating it just because, you know,
• 1:20:01
  the world is horrible and, you know, like, life sucks.
• 1:20:03
  But also, because I ask for a lot of charity money
• 1:20:05
  from people.
• 1:20:06
  So for me, I'm like, dude, just save it
• 1:20:08
  and give it to a charity.
• 1:20:09
  Like, I am not in need and the world is in need right now.
• 1:20:12
  So like, I am, I'm bad at taking monetary gifts,
• 1:20:16
  but also I'm in a really privileged position
• 1:20:19
  to know that Twitch changed my life
• 1:20:22
  and not in the, it gave me a job way,
• 1:20:24
  in the, like, isn't it, you know,
• 1:20:26
  like full-time content creators,
• 1:20:27
  you can sit there and be like,
• 1:20:28
  oh, imagine what I'd be doing if I wasn't on Twitch.
• 1:20:30
  Like, they literally gave me the confidence
• 1:20:31
  and strength to change my entire career
• 1:20:34
  to nothing to do with Twitch.
• 1:20:36
  Like, I walked away from 13 years of retail
• 1:20:39
  and a high level retail job,
• 1:20:40
  took a six grand pay cut
• 1:20:41
  and walked into a whole new career
• 1:20:43
  because I started talking about it
• 1:20:45
  and they were like, we believe in you.
• 1:20:47
  We know you can do it.
• 1:20:48
  We have faith in you.
• 1:20:49
  We'll be here the whole way.
• 1:20:50
  We'll hold your hand.
• 1:20:51
  Like, I had people in the same career I was going into
• 1:20:53
  who were like, yeah, I'll help you.
• 1:20:55
  I'll support you.
• 1:20:55
  You got exams, I'll sit there.
• 1:20:57
  And they made me realize that I'd been talking about it
• 1:21:00
  for so long and not doing it
• 1:21:01
  because people give lip service to it.
• 1:21:03
  And you're like, oh yeah, of course they believe in me.
• 1:21:05
  But like, no, they really believed in me.
• 1:21:07
  Like, they really had my back and they were really there.
• 1:21:09
  And they were like, whatever you need to do, we've got you.
• 1:21:12
  And they've been here through the whole process for me.
• 1:21:13
  You know what I mean?
• 1:21:14
  And when I did dip the wage,
• 1:21:15
  they did support me and help me out.
• 1:21:16
  And, you know, I did get a few more monetary gifts
• 1:21:19
  and stuff, but like, it's a very lucky position
• 1:21:22
  to be able to be so grateful
• 1:21:24
  that it kind of changes the whole thing for me on Twitch now
• 1:21:26
  in that like, when I go on,
• 1:21:28
  I don't need anything more out of it
• 1:21:30
  because they've already given me like the greatest gift
• 1:21:32
  they could ever give me.
• 1:21:33
  So for me, it's all just now me chilling with them
• 1:21:34
  and hopefully bringing them some joy
• 1:21:36
  and making their day a bit better.
• 1:21:38
  But I know for some people,
• 1:21:39
  like they see a responsibility in Twitch
• 1:21:41
  to like change their lives out of it.
• 1:21:42
  Like, as in, I want to be a full-time content creator
• 1:21:44
  or I want to make a lot of money so I can do stuff.
• 1:21:47
  And it's like the pressure that puts on you
• 1:21:49
  to like turn up every day then must be impossible.
• 1:21:53
  Like, I don't know how people do it
• 1:21:54
  because I turn up for fun.
• 1:21:55
  Like, so I'm very lucky, but yeah,
• 1:21:57
  I also hate it when people are nice to me.
• 1:21:59
  So you don't learn from that.
• 1:22:02
  I will say though, I feel like,
• 1:22:04
  and I know you're saying that they're different,
• 1:22:06
  but that support and change though,
• 1:22:09
  and community though is exactly the same in my opinion.
• 1:22:12
  And I say that as the other side,
• 1:22:15
  because I run my own business.
• 1:22:17
  Yeah, yeah, I run my own business
• 1:22:18
  and Twitch streaming is not my full business,
• 1:22:21
  but it absolutely is part of it.
• 1:22:23
  And, you know, without the Twitch community that I have,
• 1:22:27
  I wouldn't have done anything
• 1:22:29
  that I've done in the last five years.
• 1:22:30
  Even when I got laid off from software development
• 1:22:33
  and was like, I guess I'm voice acting.
• 1:22:36
  I'm like, oh, what the fuck?
• 1:22:37
  Yeah, I'm doing it now.
• 1:22:39
  But it absolutely has changed a life of,
• 1:22:43
  maybe not even Twitch necessarily,
• 1:22:45
  but Twitch just provides a platform to have the community.
• 1:22:48
  To go, somebody who is not married to me
• 1:22:51
  or has to be with me for some reason,
• 1:22:53
  you know what I mean?
• 1:22:54
  Legally bound to me in some way,
• 1:22:56
  says that I can do this or that they believe in you
• 1:22:59
  is such a powerful fucking thing.
• 1:23:02
  It really is, you know?
• 1:23:04
  Yeah.
• 1:23:05
  And it's the same thing,
• 1:23:06
  like one of the greatest realizations of my life with Twitch
• 1:23:09
  is the realizing obviously
• 1:23:11
  that there is 9 million streams they could watch
• 1:23:13
  and they still choose mine.
• 1:23:14
  Like Twitch recaps just come out
• 1:23:16
  and people being like, you're my top streamer
• 1:23:17
  or you're in my top five
• 1:23:19
  or I watched this many hours of your content.
• 1:23:20
  And I'm like, dude, you could have gone anywhere,
• 1:23:23
  watched anyone out of all of the people, you chose me.
• 1:23:27
  And like you said, like not through family,
• 1:23:29
  not through like a bond from birth,
• 1:23:32
  not from-
• 1:23:32
  A side piece of paper.
• 1:23:34
  Yeah, not from working in the same room,
• 1:23:36
  not from any of those forced situations.
• 1:23:39
  These are people who found you incidentally on the internet
• 1:23:42
  and then actively make the choice every week to come back.
• 1:23:45
  And there's so much power in that.
• 1:23:47
  Like really when you let yourself accept it,
• 1:23:49
  there's so much power.
• 1:23:50
  And there's also a lot of pressure in it
• 1:23:52
  that is mostly self-imposed
• 1:23:54
  in the sense of you feel like you have to turn up for them
• 1:23:56
  because they choose you, so you should choose them.
• 1:23:58
  But they don't put that pressure on me, like, or you.
• 1:24:01
  It's a hundred percent, that's the most thing.
• 1:24:03
  Like that obligation to enter.
• 1:24:05
  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:24:07
  If anyone ever DMs you and gives you shit
• 1:24:09
  for not going live.
• 1:24:11
  Boundaries are good.
• 1:24:12
  Don't kill them, ban them, sorry.
• 1:24:14
  That's the ban symbol, not the murder symbol.
• 1:24:17
  Anyone watching on YouTube, that hand symbol.
• 1:24:19
  I keep forgetting that this is a podcast as well.
• 1:24:21
  I've done so many gestures and hand symbols.
• 1:24:24
  Guys, go watch, I'm much more better in person.
• 1:24:26
  Don't just listen to my voice, honestly.
• 1:24:28
  And yeah, anyway.
• 1:24:31
  Oh, and with that note, I will say
• 1:24:34
  this will be my last question of just,
• 1:24:36
  and this is not a throwaway question
• 1:24:38
  and maybe I'm seeking something, I don't know.
• 1:24:41
  No, but we talked a lot about everything,
• 1:24:43
  but definitely D&D, well, I love it.
• 1:24:47
  This is the shit that I crave, okay?
• 1:24:49
  Like small talk is rough for me,
• 1:24:51
  but deep dive topics get me in there.
• 1:24:53
  But truly, this is something
• 1:24:57
  that I'm curious about personally,
• 1:24:59
  because we've talked a lot about D&D
• 1:25:01
  and for a lot of people, D&D is the umbrella,
• 1:25:04
  but it's actually tabletop games
• 1:25:05
  and then D&D is under that.
• 1:25:08
  Yes.
• 1:25:09
  Would there be other games, other tabletops
• 1:25:13
  that you might want to play?
• 1:25:14
  I don't know.
• 1:25:15
  Is there something you're thinking about?
• 1:25:19
  Right, I will be 100% honest, I don't know a lot of them.
• 1:25:22
  Like, I think that is the thing,
• 1:25:23
  because you get exposed to D&D because it's out there.
• 1:25:25
  Like, and I didn't know, it wasn't always,
• 1:25:26
  but like, it's the one, right?
• 1:25:28
  Like, it's a bit like how Kleenex is tissues to me.
• 1:25:31
  Like D&D is TTRPG because they took the branding
• 1:25:34
  and they ran with it and they're pretty good at it.
• 1:25:37
  Like the advertising kind of monopoly kind of thing.
• 1:25:39
  But saying that, I played Pathfinder 2E the other day.
• 1:25:42
  Oh, really?
• 1:25:43
  I went to a live session.
• 1:25:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, and oh my God,
• 1:25:46
  it's actually better than D&D, don't tell anyone.
• 1:25:49
  As a player, as a player, not as a DM,
• 1:25:52
  I would not want to DM that shit,
• 1:25:53
  it looks really complicated,
• 1:25:54
  because I think there's a lot more
• 1:25:55
  you have to kind of have in your brain.
• 1:25:57
  But as a player, the action economy and stuff
• 1:26:00
  was so much better.
• 1:26:02
  Like we played, it was just like a little cobalt thing.
• 1:26:04
  So like everyone, I didn't get to pick my class
• 1:26:06
  or play into any of that and work out the characterization,
• 1:26:08
  which we all know is my favorite part anyway.
• 1:26:11
  But I really enjoyed the game, actually.
• 1:26:15
  It was a lot of fun.
• 1:26:16
  And yeah, like I said,
• 1:26:17
  I think for me, it's the action economy.
• 1:26:18
  I've never really understood D&D's logic
• 1:26:22
  between action and bonus action
• 1:26:24
  and how they weight what's a bonus action,
• 1:26:26
  what's an action,
• 1:26:27
  because I never think it fully makes sense.
• 1:26:28
  And I love the way,
• 1:26:29
  if anyone doesn't know who's listening,
• 1:26:31
  Pathfinder 2E just basically gives you three action points
• 1:26:33
  and then things are assigned a certain number of actions,
• 1:26:36
  but you get to make the choice.
• 1:26:37
  Like you don't have to move every turn
• 1:26:39
  if you want to do stuff,
• 1:26:40
  and you don't lose things just because you don't move.
• 1:26:42
  And like, it's a very clever way of doing it
• 1:26:45
  to make sure that people always feel like
• 1:26:48
  they're utilizing their full capacity.
• 1:26:51
  And I think especially for people,
• 1:26:52
  you know, the classes that don't always do a lot,
• 1:26:55
  or that just fireball,
• 1:26:56
  or like warlocks, I imagine,
• 1:26:58
  who are just like Eldritch Blasters,
• 1:26:59
  but yeah, that's me.
• 1:27:00
  That's my job.
• 1:27:02
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:27:03
  I imagine they would feel probably a lot more power
• 1:27:06
  from the system of 2E,
• 1:27:08
  because like I say,
• 1:27:10
  the action economy is a lot better.
• 1:27:11
  Also, Daggerheart, obviously.
• 1:27:14
  Have.
• 1:27:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:18
  Watched a lot of Daggerheart.
• 1:27:20
  Again, Critical Role, obviously.
• 1:27:21
  Starting to watch some new ones,
• 1:27:22
  but I just don't have the time right now.
• 1:27:25
  But I love the idea of Daggerheart.
• 1:27:26
  I think it's a very clever system.
• 1:27:29
  I think their character creation in that
• 1:27:30
  really makes sense.
• 1:27:31
  I love the ideas they've got behind that.
• 1:27:34
  But, and again, it doesn't surprise me.
• 1:27:37
  Obviously, it comes from the people
• 1:27:38
  who know how to tell a story.
• 1:27:39
  Because I feel like, again, with TTRPGs,
• 1:27:42
  there is, from what I do know,
• 1:27:44
  there are the ones that are set up for roleplay.
• 1:27:46
  Like, there are the ones that are set up
• 1:27:47
  and make you tell a story.
• 1:27:48
  And then there are ones that are fun fighter games,
• 1:27:50
  where you get to go in and, you know,
• 1:27:52
  beat the shit out of someone.
• 1:27:53
  And I know they're all roleplaying games,
• 1:27:54
  but there is a level to how deep the roleplay
• 1:27:56
  and how deep the combat is, right?
• 1:27:57
  Like, there's a switch between them.
• 1:27:59
  To me, Daggerheart feels like
• 1:28:01
  the story is linked to the combat
• 1:28:03
  and the story is linked to everything.
• 1:28:05
  The way that you've got the experiences that you can use,
• 1:28:07
  the way you've got all that.
• 1:28:08
  I think it really gave you and the player
• 1:28:12
  so much autonomy in your character creation
• 1:28:14
  and so much, like, power over you deciding that,
• 1:28:17
  yeah, I've been fighting my whole life,
• 1:28:19
  so I absolutely, if I want to,
• 1:28:21
  can throw an extra bit of weight behind my punch
• 1:28:22
  because I've got that experience of, like,
• 1:28:24
  bar brawling or whatever,
• 1:28:25
  without having it to be, like,
• 1:28:27
  a doctored feat that has to make sense.
• 1:28:29
  You're just like, no, no, no.
• 1:28:30
  This is my experience of my character.
• 1:28:32
  This is what she did.
• 1:28:33
  Because I feel like D&D really brushes over it.
• 1:28:35
  I feel like you can choose as a character
• 1:28:37
  to really care about your backstory
• 1:28:39
  and what happened before you got there.
• 1:28:40
  But I feel like D&D as a whole doesn't care.
• 1:28:42
  Like, it's not in the character creation.
• 1:28:44
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:28:45
  Like, realistically, there's one section in background
• 1:28:49
  on D&D, really?
• 1:28:50
  And it's like, yeah, you're like an urchin.
• 1:28:53
  And okay, yeah, you grew up in the poor
• 1:28:55
  and you don't get shit for it.
• 1:28:57
  Or you're a guild master.
• 1:28:58
  Okay, so yeah, you can speak to other guilds.
• 1:29:00
  That's great.
• 1:29:01
  But, like, there's not enough weight in it.
• 1:29:03
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:29:04
  Even when you pick, like, your flaws and stuff in D&D,
• 1:29:06
  I always think it's funny
• 1:29:07
  that there isn't anything consequence-wise to that.
• 1:29:09
  Like, I've just created a character.
• 1:29:11
  She's a cleric.
• 1:29:12
  She watched a whole family die.
• 1:29:13
  It's quite tragic.
• 1:29:14
  Bless her.
• 1:29:15
  But her major flaw is if anyone goes down,
• 1:29:18
  like, on the floor,
• 1:29:20
  she will just fuck everything off to go bring them back
• 1:29:23
  because she doesn't want to ever watch
• 1:29:24
  another person die, right?
• 1:29:26
  So she will just, like, run through a fire to go get them.
• 1:29:29
  Okay?
• 1:29:30
  Now, I, as a character, know that,
• 1:29:32
  that, like, she's,
• 1:29:33
  and it did literally get killed the other day,
• 1:29:35
  but she came back.
• 1:29:36
  It's fine.
• 1:29:37
  But anyway.
• 1:29:38
  Oh, honestly, yeah, hopefully.
• 1:29:40
  Yeah, but it is a realistic flaw.
• 1:29:42
  Like, she was a, she's a nobody.
• 1:29:44
  Her whole family died.
• 1:29:45
  She prayed to a God in the moment to be like,
• 1:29:47
  help me, help me save them.
• 1:29:48
  The God gave her powers,
• 1:29:49
  but it wasn't enough power to bring them back
• 1:29:50
  because they were all dead.
• 1:29:51
  So she's now decided that no matter what happens,
• 1:29:53
  no one else she cares about will ever die again.
• 1:29:55
  That's her, like, whole goal mission in life
• 1:29:57
  to the point that it's put blinders on her
• 1:29:59
  that if shit's going down and someone drops,
• 1:30:00
  she's just going to be like,
• 1:30:02
  gotta get to them, gotta save them.
• 1:30:03
  I mean, actively said, let me get there.
• 1:30:07
  Yeah, but in D&D,
• 1:30:08
  there's no mechanically anything for that flaw.
• 1:30:12
  It's 100% me, which is great,
• 1:30:15
  but I love, I would love the idea
• 1:30:18
  of rather me having to say,
• 1:30:19
  oh, I give disadvantage to myself
• 1:30:21
  because I'm distracted by someone dying,
• 1:30:24
  that you could choose on the character sheets
• 1:30:26
  and in the mechanic and in the creation
• 1:30:27
  that she has disadvantage in these situations.
• 1:30:29
  And it would just like, you know,
• 1:30:30
  it would already like exist.
• 1:30:32
  And I guess that's kind of what experience is for me.
• 1:30:34
  The only thing I would say for Daggerheart
• 1:30:35
  is they should give a negative experience.
• 1:30:37
  They should give bad things
• 1:30:39
  that give you a minus one and a minus two
• 1:30:41
  that the DM gets to use against you.
• 1:30:43
  Like that would be my one suggestion
• 1:30:45
  to Matt Mercer and to the team,
• 1:30:48
  because it's not just Matt anymore,
• 1:30:49
  but like put in the backside of that
• 1:30:51
  because you don't just get positives
• 1:30:53
  from having lived a life.
• 1:30:54
  There is a downside to, you know,
• 1:30:57
  Critical Role, again, I mentioned a lot,
• 1:30:59
  but it's my fave, but Mighty Nein,
• 1:31:01
  anyone who's seen it knows that Caleb
• 1:31:02
  kills anyone by fire, has a negative consequence.
• 1:31:06
  That Matt Mercer put in,
• 1:31:07
  that wasn't on a D&D sheet anywhere.
• 1:31:08
  There's no tick box for that.
• 1:31:10
  But in Daggerheart, he should have a negative experience
• 1:31:14
  that if he ever uses a fire spell,
• 1:31:16
  minus one on his rolls or something.
• 1:31:18
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:31:18
  I do.
• 1:31:19
  I really, I don't know how much you've looked into it,
• 1:31:22
  but like the way that they do the deaths
• 1:31:25
  or if you're down HP and armor,
• 1:31:28
  and so you can accept a scar,
• 1:31:30
  you can accept, you know, or you do a dice roll.
• 1:31:33
  That was one of my favorite things
• 1:31:35
  that they added in that system.
• 1:31:37
  That was such, I love the epicness of that part.
• 1:31:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:41
  So good, yeah.
• 1:31:43
  Giving a player the power to decide
• 1:31:47
  how impactful their death is,
• 1:31:49
  is such a cool mechanic.
• 1:31:51
  I love it.
• 1:31:52
  Like for you to be able to choose
• 1:31:54
  that yes, it is the right time for my character to die,
• 1:31:57
  because I think it's interesting
• 1:31:58
  when you have conversations with DMs at session zero,
• 1:32:01
  which again, we should all have.
• 1:32:02
  Yes.
• 1:32:03
  GMs, any gameplay, any TTRPG,
• 1:32:05
  you should have a session,
• 1:32:06
  even if it's one-on-one,
• 1:32:07
  you can't get the whole group together,
• 1:32:07
  you should still at least talk about it.
• 1:32:09
  But you always have the death conversation, right?
• 1:32:12
  Can my character die?
• 1:32:13
  Am I comfortable with my character dying?
• 1:32:15
  But that tends to become a hard and fast thing
• 1:32:17
  where you're all like, yes, I'm fine with character death.
• 1:32:19
  But like, you look at the example of me,
• 1:32:21
  I was in session one
• 1:32:22
  and my Cleric dropped to zero hit points
• 1:32:23
  and then was about to be critted on the floor and die, die.
• 1:32:26
  Right?
• 1:32:27
  Like death saving throws gone.
• 1:32:29
  And in Daggerheart,
• 1:32:31
  she would have the option to stabilize herself
• 1:32:33
  and have a scar,
• 1:32:33
  which would have made sense story-wise,
• 1:32:35
  because there's no way she should have died in that moment.
• 1:32:37
  Like, I have a whole story for her to tell.
• 1:32:39
  Like, she's not supposed to go out in session one.
• 1:32:41
  But in D&D, it's like,
• 1:32:42
  well, if she fails a death saving, she's gone.
• 1:32:43
  Done.
• 1:32:44
  Like, it's that simple in D&D.
• 1:32:46
  And like, also, because of who she is as a character,
• 1:32:49
  at a later point when she dies,
• 1:32:50
  she absolutely would blaze of glory to save everyone else,
• 1:32:53
  because that is her whole mechanic as a person,
• 1:32:55
  that she would risk everything
• 1:32:57
  if it meant she could save everyone else.
• 1:32:59
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:33:00
  That is literally a whole thing.
• 1:33:01
  So the fact that you wouldn't have to, like,
• 1:33:04
  whisper the DM every time and be like,
• 1:33:05
  yeah, I'm ready for her to die this time,
• 1:33:07
  but can I do something cool?
• 1:33:08
  Like, instead it's built into the game.
• 1:33:10
  It's a conversation.
• 1:33:11
  And I could be like at the start,
• 1:33:12
  well, 100%, I don't want him to die.
• 1:33:14
  I don't want him to die.
• 1:33:15
  Okay, now she'd be willing to risk dying
• 1:33:17
  because it means more.
• 1:33:18
  Okay, now she definitely would go out
• 1:33:20
  and she'd take everyone else with her.
• 1:33:21
  Like, there is a progression to that in your character.
• 1:33:24
  And the fact that Daggerheart gave you the progression
• 1:33:26
  is great.
• 1:33:28
  It's also fun for characters.
• 1:33:31
  Some players are just dicks
• 1:33:32
  and think it's funny for their player to die.
• 1:33:34
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 1:33:35
  Or like you say, the lone wolves,
• 1:33:38
  they were like, yeah, they would totally die,
• 1:33:40
  but try and save everyone because, you know,
• 1:33:43
  they feel like their story's complete now.
• 1:33:45
  Sorry, I don't like lone wolves either.
• 1:33:47
  I know people couldn't see it, but I was eye rolling.
• 1:33:49
  Yep.
• 1:33:50
  Yeah, they would blaze of glory every session,
• 1:33:53
  which could get annoying,
• 1:33:55
  but also their character dies.
• 1:33:56
  Bye, see you later.
• 1:33:57
  Like, they don't get to be saved by a cleric.
• 1:34:00
  They don't get to be revived.
• 1:34:01
  They don't, no.
• 1:34:02
  Yeah, if you would,
• 1:34:03
  because I think D&D as well sort of is too forgiving
• 1:34:05
  on death.
• 1:34:06
  It's like, yeah, you can die in a really dramatic moment,
• 1:34:09
  but as long as you get to two death saves
• 1:34:11
  and there's someone around, you can come back.
• 1:34:13
  Like, and it's not an active choice.
• 1:34:15
  It's just like, oh yeah, oh, well,
• 1:34:16
  they've killed all the bad guys.
• 1:34:17
  You were bleeding to death on the floor,
• 1:34:20
  but we're out of combat now, so you're alive.
• 1:34:22
  Well done.
• 1:34:23
  Yeah, wait a minute.
• 1:34:24
  And it's only a gravitas to it.
• 1:34:28
  Yes. Completely.
• 1:34:29
  I mean, obviously good DMs,
• 1:34:31
  but also in the middle of combat,
• 1:34:32
  it is really hard to focus in on that player dying.
• 1:34:35
  Whereas you are literally,
• 1:34:37
  like I've been there and you just literally say,
• 1:34:39
  oh, death saving throw, okay, great.
• 1:34:40
  And then you move on
• 1:34:41
  because you are in the middle of combat.
• 1:34:42
  You're trying to run five enemies.
• 1:34:44
  You've got four players at the table.
• 1:34:46
  You're trying to do your best
• 1:34:47
  to keep the combat moving fast.
• 1:34:48
  You don't want to slow it down.
• 1:34:49
  Whereas Daggerhawk kind of forces you
• 1:34:52
  to acknowledge what is happening.
• 1:34:55
  Their character is dead and potentially dead dead.
• 1:35:00
  And you need to give that moment,
• 1:35:02
  because there's a bit in Umbra, whatever it is.
• 1:35:06
  No spoilers.
• 1:35:06
  You haven't seen it, no.
• 1:35:08
  Yeah, you haven't seen it, have you?
• 1:35:09
  Okay, no spoilers.
• 1:35:10
  There's a bit in that
• 1:35:12
  that I would happily discuss with you about this topic,
• 1:35:14
  but I cannot.
• 1:35:15
  Oh no, we're fucking in.
• 1:35:15
  Please god no.
• 1:35:18
  When you finally watch it,
• 1:35:19
  if you're anything like me,
• 1:35:20
  who's still trying to catch up with campaign four
• 1:35:23
  and also then the TV series that have come out.
• 1:35:24
  Jesus Christ, guys.
• 1:35:26
  Too much content.
• 1:35:27
  Has anyone ever told anyone that?
• 1:35:28
  There's just too much available in the world.
• 1:35:30
  I mean, it doesn't help that I spend like three hours
• 1:35:33
  watching Magic the Gathering.
• 1:35:36
  Honestly though, I love this for us.
• 1:35:38
  I love it.
• 1:35:39
  And really I do,
• 1:35:40
  because there's just a freedom of choice there
• 1:35:43
  of how you want to spend your time
• 1:35:46
  and how you value your time.
• 1:35:47
  What?
• 1:35:50
  I love that how this was meant to be
• 1:35:52
  all about storytelling.
• 1:35:53
  Instead, this is like, guys,
• 1:35:54
  put your time, value it.
• 1:35:57
  No, but it truly to me,
• 1:35:59
  and again, this is the autism,
• 1:36:00
  but truly to me,
• 1:36:01
  that is the crux of storytelling
• 1:36:04
  is everything we talked about
• 1:36:06
  from listening to empathy
• 1:36:07
  to having a collaborative experience,
• 1:36:10
  giving gravitas where it needs to be
• 1:36:13
  and truly valuing your own time
• 1:36:17
  and how you want to spend it.
• 1:36:18
  Because even if storytelling,
• 1:36:20
  it is for me too as escapism,
• 1:36:22
  because I also had a horrible childhood,
• 1:36:25
  like stories are the way to bring myself joy,
• 1:36:30
  to also connect with other people
• 1:36:32
  and to give me a reason to care, truly.
• 1:36:36
  Like that's a little too deep, sorry.
• 1:36:37
  But like truly to give myself purpose
• 1:36:40
  and keep moving is the stories
• 1:36:42
  and the things that I can do
• 1:36:44
  to help people also achieve that.
• 1:36:46
  Like that's truly what it is.
• 1:36:49
  And from talking for the last hour and a half,
• 1:36:51
  like that is exactly what I get.
• 1:36:53
  No, no, and the thing is like,
• 1:36:54
  I wanted to, and that's why I was like,
• 1:36:57
  we're gonna keep talking,
• 1:36:58
  okay, let's go.
• 1:36:59
  Like literally, I will tell you,
• 1:37:02
  this experience with the podcast thus far
• 1:37:04
  and talking with everybody
• 1:37:06
  has been exactly what I was hoping for
• 1:37:08
  and way better.
• 1:37:09
  And that's a true testament
• 1:37:11
  to everything we even just talked about
• 1:37:12
  of collaboration, listening,
• 1:37:15
  getting to deep dive and talk about things
• 1:37:17
  that we don't get the chance to
• 1:37:19
  in Twitch chats and things of that nature.
• 1:37:22
  And legitimately, this has been the fucking best for me.
• 1:37:26
  It's been so nice.
• 1:37:27
  So thank you, Suze, so much for hanging out with me.
• 1:37:31
  I really appreciate it.
• 1:37:32
  And don't get me wrong.
• 1:37:33
  We're doing it again.
• 1:37:34
  You're welcome.
• 1:37:35
  Like, it was so funny.
• 1:37:36
  When I talked to Douglas Airbender,
• 1:37:38
  she was like, when we do this again,
• 1:37:39
  I was like, okay, nope, we're doing this again.
• 1:37:41
  I was like, never, there wasn't an if there,
• 1:37:44
  it was a when.
• 1:37:45
  And I was like, I'm guessing when.
• 1:37:47
  Yeah, wait, this is,
• 1:37:48
  I know this is like eight episodes with me.
• 1:37:50
  And then you're doing another.
• 1:37:51
  Yeah, no, probably.
• 1:37:52
  I've got another eight more episodes.
• 1:37:53
  No, but literally, like.
• 1:37:54
  It just cracked me up,
• 1:37:57
  because I was like, aw.
• 1:37:59
  Like, it shows me that people are having fun
• 1:38:01
  and accomplishing, again, what I was hoping for
• 1:38:04
  and way more, you know?
• 1:38:05
  Like, I was hoping that it would be
• 1:38:09
  a comfortable space to talk about things
• 1:38:11
  and actually get to know each other
• 1:38:12
  and then be able to see the logic and thought
• 1:38:17
  behind the things that we see
• 1:38:18
  in a small little window of a Twitch stream.
• 1:38:21
  You know?
• 1:38:22
  Yeah.
• 1:38:22
  I would like to say that I think,
• 1:38:25
  to me, the art of intelligent but interesting,
• 1:38:29
  but like, the art of a beautiful conversation is dying.
• 1:38:33
  And I think it's so great to have the opportunity
• 1:38:36
  to kind of force ourselves to sit down and have it
• 1:38:39
  and to allow your mind to run in places
• 1:38:43
  and allow other people to come with you on that journey.
• 1:38:45
  And like, it's not something we, as people, get to do.
• 1:38:49
  Very often, like, obviously, again,
• 1:38:51
  with the people closed in your life,
• 1:38:52
  you do that, you actively.
• 1:38:53
  But with strangers, you know,
• 1:38:55
  like, it's not something we get to do.
• 1:38:57
  And we're not strangers,
• 1:38:58
  but we're also not really close.
• 1:38:59
  You know what I mean?
• 1:39:00
  So there's no, it's just, people are so interesting.
• 1:39:05
  And I think we forget that.
• 1:39:07
  And like you said, you drown out the voices
• 1:39:10
  and the noise and the world and you see the big picture
• 1:39:12
  and you forget that, just sit for a while
• 1:39:14
  and talk to one person for an hour
• 1:39:16
  and oh, you will have like the best time.
• 1:39:19
  Like, just because people are so bloody interesting.
• 1:39:22
  Like, you'll never know.
• 1:39:23
  You're like, do you know what I mean?
• 1:39:25
  And yeah, that's what it's been.
• 1:39:27
  Yes, 100%, I get why Doug was like, when we do this again,
• 1:39:29
  because even if you didn't record it,
• 1:39:31
  like, I think forcing people to be like,
• 1:39:34
  this is the time we're going to do it.
• 1:39:35
  Like, come meet me at 11 o'clock
• 1:39:37
  on a Friday night or 10 o'clock.
• 1:39:39
  We're going to give ourselves an hour
• 1:39:40
  and we're just going to talk shit.
• 1:39:42
  I mean, this isn't late for me, I don't sleep.
• 1:39:44
  But we're just going to talk.
• 1:39:47
  And like, it's just, it's a rare gift.
• 1:39:49
  So you should, you know, you should be very proud
• 1:39:53
  of yourself for giving it to people because it means a lot.
• 1:39:56
  And also I hope people listening to us talk shit
• 1:39:59
  would go away and be like, I'm going to do that.
• 1:40:02
  And just grab a friend or grab a stranger
• 1:40:05
  and would, you know, pick a topic
• 1:40:07
  and just talk for an hour.
• 1:40:08
  Because look how interesting and varied we got.
• 1:40:10
  Like, we literally were like,
• 1:40:12
  let's talk about storytelling
• 1:40:13
  because you've started DMing.
• 1:40:14
  Like, yeah, sure.
• 1:40:15
  Okay, politics, religion, self-evaluation,
• 1:40:18
  reflection, active listening.
• 1:40:20
  Like, yeah, dude, because people just want it.
• 1:40:23
  Yeah, we're interesting.
• 1:40:24
  Like, I know I'm picking myself up,
• 1:40:25
  but I don't care.
• 1:40:26
  I'm interested.
• 1:40:27
  I'm kidding, I'm not joking.
• 1:40:29
  But yeah, if people were to take anything away
• 1:40:32
  from us today, I hope it would be
• 1:40:33
  to go have a conversation with someone else,
• 1:40:35
  go tell a story with someone else.
• 1:40:36
  Yeah, and let them tell their story.
• 1:40:39
  Definitely.
• 1:40:40
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:40:41
  And that's what I'm saying.
• 1:40:42
  Like, I know it feels like a little bit,
• 1:40:43
  maybe potentially it feels like this,
• 1:40:45
  but that we didn't hit on it,
• 1:40:47
  but we absolutely did.
• 1:40:48
  100% my mind, it's there.
• 1:40:52
  But anyway.
• 1:40:53
  Oh, yeah, we did.
• 1:40:54
  We just also went off on every tangent
• 1:40:56
  known to man because that's what both of our brains are.
• 1:40:58
  Which is what a story is, you know?
• 1:40:59
  Like, not every story has to serve the main plot.
• 1:41:04
  Writers, not everything has to serve the main plot.
• 1:41:08
  But-
• 1:41:09
  In fact, it's better when it doesn't.
• 1:41:10
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:41:10
  And you're like, wait, what?
• 1:41:11
  Oh my gosh.
• 1:41:12
  But legitimately, thank you so much
• 1:41:15
  for kicking off this passion project with me.
• 1:41:17
  Like, it's been, again, everything that I've wanted
• 1:41:20
  and thought I wanted, and then so much better.
• 1:41:22
  It's been great.
• 1:41:24
  For these episodes, they're gonna be
• 1:41:26
  in like March, April time.
• 1:41:28
  So if you want, I was going to give you a moment
• 1:41:30
  to talk about things maybe coming up.
• 1:41:32
  If you have anything, I don't know if WWF,
• 1:41:35
  that's not words.
• 1:41:35
  Yeah.
• 1:41:36
  WWF is coming, but you know, anything.
• 1:41:38
  So depending when this airs,
• 1:41:40
  and if me and Taryn are smart about this,
• 1:41:43
  this will air at the appropriate time.
• 1:41:45
  Twitch 2020, Twitch for WWF 2026 will be happening.
• 1:41:49
  I don't know what it'll look like,
• 1:41:50
  but it will be happening.
• 1:41:52
  It normally happens in March and April.
• 1:41:53
  Basically, we get a group of streamers, friends,
• 1:41:56
  together and raise money for an amazing cause.
• 1:41:59
  For the animals, we save the animals.
• 1:42:00
  We have, in the three years we've been doing it,
• 1:42:04
  raised close to $25,000, I believe.
• 1:42:08
  I'd have to check that number, but it's been crazy.
• 1:42:10
  We've had, we had one particularly crazy year
• 1:42:12
  that was insane, but we've,
• 1:42:15
  they've always been relatively crazy years.
• 1:42:17
  And yeah, it's a cool group of people.
• 1:42:19
  So if this happens to air and that is coming up
• 1:42:21
  or going around, I'm sure Taryn will let you know
• 1:42:23
  in the links and the things down there.
• 1:42:25
  You can click the things, but also generally speaking,
• 1:42:29
  if you hang out in my stream,
• 1:42:30
  at some point there'll be a charity event.
• 1:42:31
  So come support it because yeah, we're big on the charity.
• 1:42:34
  I'm very close to my personal goal of $25,000.
• 1:42:37
  So fingers crossed by the end of the year,
• 1:42:40
  we will have smashed that.
• 1:42:41
  So 2026, hopefully we'll bring more.
• 1:42:44
  And that's, yeah, that's me.
• 1:42:46
  And we're listening.
• 1:42:47
  Go help Sue's get that goal.
• 1:42:49
  Just saying.
• 1:42:50
  Come by, give a dollar to a charity and leave again.
• 1:42:54
  That's fine.
• 1:42:55
  Yeah, and tell your story.
• 1:42:56
  Make sure, no, I'm kidding.
• 1:42:58
  Yeah, come in and be like,
• 1:42:59
  I am here to tell you my story and I will listen.
• 1:43:02
  I will.
• 1:43:03
  The first five people I'll be weirded out to hell,
• 1:43:05
  but then after that.
• 1:43:07
  Because legitimately that shit happens
• 1:43:09
  and I'm like, I made it to win it, tell me everything.
• 1:43:11
  And I'm like, that might be a weird response.
• 1:43:13
  Anyway.
• 1:43:15
  Let's go.
• 1:43:17
  But yes, again, thank you so much, Sue's.
• 1:43:20
  You have no idea how happy I am.
• 1:43:21
  It makes me very, very happy.
• 1:43:23
  It just, just joyful that we have people
• 1:43:25
  that want to talk to me.
• 1:43:26
  Anyway, please check out Sue's on their Twitch stream
• 1:43:30
  when they are live as twitch.tv, British cimer time.
• 1:43:35
  Please do that.
• 1:43:36
  Cause I messed it up for you.
• 1:43:39
  But also there are links to where their content
• 1:43:40
  can be found like on YouTube and things of that nature.
• 1:43:43
  So for now, please cozy up and take care of yourself
• 1:43:47
  the best that you can.
• 1:43:49
  And in the words of Tigger, ETFN.
• 1:43:53
  Foreign talks for now.
• 1:43:55
  Bye.
• 1:43:57
  I thought you'd appreciate that.
• 1:44:00
  That's so cute.
• 1:44:03
  So let's dive on Torin Talks.