Latest / WGKM / Podcasting 2.0 - Episode 264: Podcast Plebicide

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Podcasting 2.0 - Episode 264: Podcast Plebicide · WGKM

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  Podcasting 2.0 for June 19th, 2026. Episode 264. Podcast plebiscite.
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  Hello, everybody. It's raining here in Texas, but it's Friday
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  because you know what that means. It is time for
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  Podcasting 2.0. Everything going down in the world of podcasting
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  is and then some other things as well. I'm Adam
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  Currie here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country
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  and in Alabama, the man who always gives you five
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  nines above time. No memos. Memos require you to write
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  things. A memorandum of understanding is different. It requires meetings.
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  handwriting stuff and flying to Switzerland to sign them. What?
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  Um... You threw me on the Switzerland thing. Oh, I
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  was referring to the Iran memorandum of understanding. Okay, I
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  know nothing about this. Oh, you know what? That's beautiful.
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  You don't need to know anything. You can be like
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  those tourists all over social media. I'm so disconnected from
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  anything that even remotely resembles news. I have no idea.
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  I checked out of even trying to keep up with
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  the Iran thing because it was like, you know, we're
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  going to sign a peace deal. We're not signing a
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  peace deal. The straits are open. No, they're closed. No,
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  the straits are open. I'm like, I can't do this.
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  Whatever. Whatever. Basically, what is the... price at the pump.
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  Okay, I guess that's okay then. We're all right. That's
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  all we care about as Americans, really. And it's always
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  just going to have the current president's sticker on the
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  pump with a little finger saying, I did this. So
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  it doesn't matter anyway. Whoever the new guy is, you
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  put that sticker on there. Exactly. Yeah. No, I was
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  saying that I love all these tourists who are here
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  for the World Cup. You're not on social media, so
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  you don't see that. It's on YouTube too. It's all
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  over YouTube. And once you watch one, then you get
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  into the algo hole. It's so wonderful. People are like.
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  Wow, America's great. The yellow school buses, they're real. They're
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  real. I think that was just in TV shows and
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  movies. Oops. Oh, hey. Hello. Got a baller. Baller. Let's
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  see who boosted the baller. Oh, thank you, Drebscott. 10,000
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  sats. Boom. Right off the bat, a baller. Yeah, I've
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  been watching I'm not a soccer fan. Really? But... I'm
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  also not a fan of... We call it. like curling,
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  but I watched that during the Olympics, and I enjoy
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  it. I enjoy it, too. It's true. Curling is, especially
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  when they got cute. girls on the team like yeah
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  yeah but i'm not gonna watch it on like a
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  tuesday in june you know no so but so so
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  when the world cup happens um soccer's fun because i'm
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  caught up in the hey everybody there's big things happening
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  and it's fun to watch along and that kind of
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  thing. Yeah, I like it too. I watch it. So
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  I've been watching it. And the funny thing is we're
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  watching it on the Roku. Yeah. And the only thing
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  we have really access to because we don't pay for
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  streaming stuff is... is like peacock Uh, like Spanish feed,
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  the Telemundo feed. Ha ha, goal! Everything is in Spanish.
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  We don't even know who the teams are for a
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  while because we're trying to figure out what the logo
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  and the colors mean. Yeah, it's like, okay, okay. Well,
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  I hope it stays free now that Fox bought it.
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  Oh, they'll charge. They'll take the free part away. Yeah.
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  I don't know if they will. They may or they
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  may not, but. It's interesting you have free peacock. I
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  didn't realize that. You gotta pay for it here. I
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  think it comes with our... Your TV. No, with our
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  internet. With our home internet. There's some kind of deal
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  with our internet provider where you get like... It used
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  to be HBO Max. No, no, no. I don't know
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  why the Spanish thing is a thing. We can't get
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  an English feed of the World Cup. For some reason.
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  Oh, that's too bad. I have, um, see, what am
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  I recording it on? Sam Sethi probably pays for some
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  kind of like $300 a month football god package or
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  something. Uber lord package. Yeah. I really like YouTube TV.
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  Ever since they added C-Span, that was the gating factor
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  for me to have cable, which we got rid of.
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  Um... Because C-SPAN is important for me. And you can
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  set it up easily on YouTube TV to just record.
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  Now you can do endless recordings of stuff. They keep
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  creeping that price up on YouTube TV, though. Oh, yeah.
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  Well, I understand. A few bucks at a time, you
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  know. I understand it. You turn around one day and
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  it's 120. It's almost the same. It's basically the same
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  price as cable packages used to be. No, no. Well.
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  No. Mike... When we canceled cable, it was like... 120
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  bucks a month. But it came with internet? And that
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  was like 12 years ago. That was a long time
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  ago. But still over $100. Did you get your internet
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  through them as well? How do you get your internet
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  now? We do it through AT&T Fiber. Okay, what do
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  you pay and what are you getting? We pay $85
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  a month. And it's just internet. What kind of bandwidth?
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  Just internet. No, it's a symmetric gig. A gig. Okay.
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  I got five gigs for a hundred. I really love
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  that. Symmetric 5x5x. I don't think we have... I don't
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  think we have five gigs. No, this is... We got
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  this... I'm sorry. I think we can do... Three gigs
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  through Charter, but... I've not done it because I feel
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  like anything above a gig. is sort of a marketing
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  scam. Oh, totally. We got it because we're rural America.
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  So... What is the outfit called that does this? They
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  bought... They bought Verizon's thing. I forget their name now.
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  Is it Freedom Internet? No, it's not. It's not. It's
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  something like that. But they got subsidies from the government.
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  So, you know, that's why we have this, you know,
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  super broadband. Because, of course, you know, the most billionaires
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  in Texas live in Fredericksburg. And so we need the
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  subsidy to give us five gigs of Internet. It makes
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  nothing but sense. Frontier. That's the frontier. Yeah, that's the
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  one. Frontier. I was thinking freedom. I meant frontier. Same
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  thing. Yeah, that's true. I was reflecting the whole week
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  I've been reflecting on, uh, on the last board meeting.
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  Because you were in... I've kind of been a... Well,
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  I think you were grieving. a little bit. The loss
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  of what? The loss of, well, about AI coding and...
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  being a software developer and It felt like you were
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  grieving a little bit about it. Because you said I
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  love it and hate it at the same time. Is
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  that an incorrect assumption? It's interesting that you bring that
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  up because I've been... thinking about the last board meeting
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  most of the week as well. Were you thinking about
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  me? Because my butt got all warm, so I don't
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  know. It's supposed to be your ears, not your butt.
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  I'm sorry. I'll have to talk to my body. Is
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  your butt burning? Somebody's talking about you. No, the... I
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  actually did something I rarely ever do and within a
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  couple of hours after you posted the show I went
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  back and listened to the show again. I did too
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  and I rarely do that myself. That's interesting. That's funny
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  because it just felt like such a it was such
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  a discombobulated show that we forgot to do donations. That
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  has never happened to me in a podcast ever. Ever.
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  I don't know what happened there. That shows you how
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  weird it was. I didn't have an end of show.
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  I mean, everything was off. Okay, I have some conclusions
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  about it, but do you want to go first? Let's
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  review. - With the meeting notes of the last board
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  meeting. - No, please no AI meeting note taker, please.
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  Is it? ISOs, you can pull last week's ISO. That
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  was a killer one. Yeah. um Yeah, I think I
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  actually know. There's a bunch of podcast stuff we need
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  to talk about, but this, I actually want to, I'm
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  glad you brought this up. Because Justin Jackson had a
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  blog post this week. Oh, I have not seen Justin
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  Jackson's blog post. Justin Jackson of Transistor. also of Podcast
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  Standards Project. Notoriety and fame. Yes. Infamy. Infamy. What is
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  it? Is it a sub stack or what is it?
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  I don't know. I don't know what it is. I
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  don't know what he uses, but it's, it's a. I'm
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  gonna have to find it now. Um. Calm company, how
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  to build something people want. Am I looking at the
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  right thing here? Do you know what it was called?
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  Justin Jackson's a basketball player, evidently. Transistor blog. Now I've
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  got to go find it. Podcasting articles. Here it is,
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  justinjackson.ca.
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  Yeah, I got that. Oh, yeah, that's right, because he's
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  a Canuck. Yeah. Which blog post? I don't even remember
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  what it's called. It's brand new. It should be at
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  the top. How I would build a new startup if
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  I do it all over. Okay, we have Calm Company.
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  We have a communication problem. Here it is. It's not
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  on the homepage. Oh, yes, yes. Yes, we do. Yes,
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  we do. That was a very good post. I saw
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  it. I actually talked about that on No Agenda, which
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  you never listen to. Oh, see, that's why I don't
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  listen, because I would have been tainted. Yes. Um. So
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  he wrote this blog post and the. The long and
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  short of it is that... He's saying that... real life,
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  he's... Got a company that they've had, the transistor is
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  a company they've built remotely. Sort of like we've always
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  worked, you know, remotely. together and sort of in this
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  disconnect. chat based work. That you slack. UNI use Signal.
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  And he said that there was this long-running issue building
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  between him and his co-founder. that was sort of simmering
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  over many months where they had this some basic agreements
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  about some things. He was not, he didn't elaborate on
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  it, but he said, um, They finally met up. and
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  just had dinner together in real life. and It was
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  all. resolved all their differences, all this discrimination. Yeah, in
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  like 30 minutes. In like 30 minutes. Over dinner. Yeah.
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  I take it back. There was no agenda. It was
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  on We Get to Do This where I discussed it.
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  Okay. And you and I have had these experiences with,
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  you know, with Godcaster where we have disagreements and we've
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  had this experience with other things we've been involved in.
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  You and I tend to... Things just kind of roll
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  off of us a little bit quicker, but whenever somebody
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  else comes in, things tend to flare up a little
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  bit. Um, but. You know, the point of his article
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  was real life is better for... many reasons this being
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  one of them. for all the things there's nothing novel
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  here what he's saying it's just we know all this
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  we know that We know that this is the case
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  because of all kinds of things, body language, the look
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  on a person's face. You can tell when you said
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  something, if it hurt their feelings. You can tell if
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  they're... concerned about something you're saying because then you sense,
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  oh, maybe you're misunderstanding. There's a lot of things that
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  happen. In real life, this is not groundbreaking information here.
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  Breaking! Bye. But I'm not really interested. I started thinking
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  about that. and not really about the why so much
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  as the how. Um... You know, we often go back
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  and forth. on github and podcast index.social mastodon About the
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  various standards and tags that people are working on and
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  interested in building. or refining or whatever. As expected, there's
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  disagreements. there always is going to be in this kind
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  of work. And people, including me, we get our feelings
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  hurt sometimes. We, you know, we flame out. We do
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  these kinds of things. And As part of this... You
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  know me, I'm going around the world, I'll come back,
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  I promise. I have this intense... He's doing the weave,
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  people. He's doing the weave. I have this intense dislike.
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  I'm with you, brother. I just don't look at it.
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  It's not an option for you, but I just don't
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  look at it. You know It's not an option for
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  me, but I don't look at it either. I don't.
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  And I can't really put my finger on why until
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  I read... Two things had to happen back to back.
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  I read Justin's blog post and I was thinking about
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  it. It was in my head. And then later I
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  was reading. a book that I had started to read
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  a while back and had put down in order to
• 14:30
  read Secular Age, the Charles Taylor books. I finished Secular
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  Age finally. I'm a slow reader. So I sort of,
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  I was reading that, this new book and I was
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  sort of. Put two and two together. through this lens
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  of attention. focused attention. And so this book is... about
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  is about the brain and and its effect on society
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  specifically. you know, the world we live in now, modern
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  society. It's called The Master and His Emissary by Ian
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  McGilchrist. Um. partially It's partially a critique of like the,
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  you know, this, this guy's a. He's a neurologist. fellow
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  at Oxford distinguished career It is partially a critique of
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  the machine model of the brain. So the brain is
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  split into two hemispheres. connected through this mass of connective
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  circuits. called the Corpus Colossum. But the thing, even if
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  you sever that connective tissue between the hemispheres, with very
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  few exceptions, the brain and the person continues to function
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  just like they always did. Which is weird. So So
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  why is it there? If you can cut, if you
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  can literally sever the two hemispheres and they and there's
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  very little impact that it has why did it why
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  was it like that to begin with And why are
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  there two hemispheres anyway? Like it was noticed early on,
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  like very early, that language seems to be predominantly a
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  left hemisphere. activity. Yeah, there's a lot of people writing
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  about this right now. And it comes from this guy's
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  book. Oh, interesting. Yeah, this is the root. Now, this
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  book is a more accessible version of his larger academic
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  work called The Matter with Things, which is a two-volume.
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  1200 page beast. This is the more accessible version. Um.
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  But some people show almost the exact opposite. With all
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  their language activity being concentrated in the right hemisphere. Mm-hmm.
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  So it seems like generally speaking... There aren't very many
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  rules that to the brain in the same way that
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  they would apply to something like a machine. So Even
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  though that's not the main point of the book, that
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  is part of it. kind of idea I was reading
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  through. You know, pro- attention, this focused attention being primarily
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  like a... left hemisphere activity. And let me just say
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  here, though. It's also where we get triggered on everything.
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  I mean, the left brain is a whole bunch of
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  crazy stuff, which is social media loves left brain. Well,
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  and I know, and I know, I feel like I'm...
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  running through that right now. I need to say first
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  of all... Please do not read left-right hemisphere language as
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  relating to anything like political or cultural. as we talk
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  of left and right, like on the politics spectrum. No,
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  no. They're not in any way related. That's not a
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  thing. But, you know, in his idea is that... Left
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  hemisphere dominance is what is the prime mover of cultural
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  impact in the world today. So in this. But he
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  has this quote, and I wrote it down. He said,
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  attention is not just another function. alongside other cognitive functions.
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  ontological statuses of something prior to functions and even to
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  things. The kind of attention we bring to bear on
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  the world changes the nature of the world we attend
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  to. the very nature of the world in which those
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  functions would be carried out and in which those things
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  exist. attention changes what kind of a thing comes into
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  being for us. And that way it changes the world.
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  Wow. And I would add that when he says the
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  world there, I think he means, and I'm pretty sure
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  he's meaning the world as we perceive it. As we
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  perceive it, of course. Right. Which really is the world.
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  It's all perception. Yeah. Because that's all we have access
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  to, right? We can only see the world through a
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  perception. And in a sense, you could think of it
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  like... Like, what does Mount Everest do when nobody's there?
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  And the answer is nothing. So like the idea that
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  there's this. There's this very predominant view that there's like
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  this subjective view of the world. And then there's this
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  objective view of the world. And that some of us
• 19:35
  see one, you know, I see the world objectively and
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  you see it subjectively. But that doesn't really obtain because
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  the idea there. The idea that there are even two
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  views, a subjective and an objected, isn't a priority view
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  of the world. You're bringing the view that there are
• 19:54
  two views. to bear on the world already. So you've
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  already... dude
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  It's a tautology. So the, I mean, the book. You
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  know... It's... It's in my mind, and I'm kind of
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  thinking through all these things, as after I read... Justin's
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  blog post. And then. James posted something on Podcast Index
• 20:22
  on social about the transcript tag. And, uh... Nice, if
• 20:27
  I can find it. And then there was this discussion
• 20:30
  back and forth between James and Daniel J. Lewis. Yes,
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  I saw some of that, yeah. Yeah, okay. James said,
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  my proposal was to suggest that full support Support of
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  the transcript tag should be suggested to be simply VTT.
• 20:44
  that if you only support VTT... both publisher and client,
• 20:48
  then that's full support of the tag. And if you
• 20:50
  do not support VTT, you do not support the tag.
• 20:53
  Now, I really appreciated... What? what he said there. Because
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  I think that that resolved a lot of misunderstandings of.
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  what I've been thinking he's been saying over months now.
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  And I was like, man, wow, this is... It's amazing
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  that Justin posts this. And then I have like... a
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  realization of a thing that I was very unsure about
• 21:24
  what James was saying. And James even said there, he's
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  like, if you want to jump on a call and
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  work this out, I'm happy to explain it. I was
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  like. You know, we probably should have done that. Yeah.
• 21:34
  Criddler call. The Criddle phone. Pick up the Criddle phone.
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  And, uh... So then Daniel J. Lewis, if you scroll
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  down, he said... He comes back. He says standards do
• 21:48
  need to be set for things to get adopted. There
• 21:50
  does need to be a sense of, quote, you're doing
• 21:53
  it wrong. Here's the right way to do it, which
• 21:55
  I know seems contrary to your own technology perspective, Dave.
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  And I appreciate what he said there. And also, and
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  of course, James's post as well. because it It gave
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  me a chance to sort of go off and give
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  all this a good think. And as part of thinking
• 22:13
  about it, I just started realizing podcastindex.social. more closely mimics
• 22:22
  a real sort of life experience to me. than something
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  like a slack or signal or something like that oh
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  absolutely But why? Isn't it odd? It's... It's the interface,
• 22:38
  Dave. Yeah. I think you're right. Why would Mastodon mimic
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  a real life experience? And I'm not saying that Mastodon
• 22:50
  adequately captures real life. I'm not saying it's a replacement
• 22:53
  for that in any way. um It's even close to
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  being in the same room with another person. That's not.
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  that's not the point of what I'm saying, but I'm
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  saying that the fact that there is any difference at
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  all between those two mediums, something like a, like a
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  Slack and a podcast index, that social to me is,
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  is it bears a significance that I need to, that,
• 23:12
  that, that I thought I needed to stop and think
• 23:14
  about. And I think it's because... the sort of semi-public
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  federated nature. of mastodon makes it feel Makes it feel
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  more like you're having a personal discussion where you're going
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  back and forth with a person in an open space,
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  like in public. Mm-hmm. It sort of, it feels like
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  the same atmosphere you get like in a hallway in
• 23:37
  an office building where you're having this one-on-one discussion, but
• 23:40
  people are walking by and overhearing, and then somebody may
• 23:44
  even overhear a thing you said and jump in the
• 23:46
  conversation. But then if you compare that to something like
• 23:51
  Signal or Slack or even email or text messaging or
• 23:55
  those kinds of things that are... Completely private, isolated environments.
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  I think they distort this attention mechanism. because there's no
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  real world equivalent to something like that. It really draws
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  this... left hemisphere. which is predominantly... Um... involved in focused
• 24:21
  attention to a single issue like he gives the example
• 24:28
  in the book of of birds in hell. They will
• 24:34
  use their right eye. So left and right are swapped.
• 24:38
  So left hemisphere controls right hand. right side of the
• 24:40
  body. They'll use the right eye to monitor, to be
• 24:44
  focused on what they're eating. like off the ground and
• 24:49
  they'll be at the exact same time using their left
• 24:52
  eye to watch for prey And so there's this split
• 24:57
  between And this left hemisphere is intensely f***ed. focus on
• 25:00
  this one thing right in front of it and it's
• 25:03
  not seeing the world in this big picture of the
• 25:06
  world yeah it's a micro micro hyper focused hyper focus
• 25:11
  and the that distorted attention mechanism, like we really do
• 25:15
  feel siloed into a bubble. Where there's, where it ends.
• 25:20
  up being there's nothing bigger than that one thing that
• 25:22
  exists. It becomes that one issue becomes the whole world
• 25:26
  to us. And of course it's going to make us
• 25:31
  angry. Ah, okay. So, just interjecting. That may be because
• 25:36
  when you scroll down the homepage of the Mastodon. You
• 25:41
  see something, but there's other things, there's other... conversations, other
• 25:46
  context in the same space where a GitHub It's like
• 25:50
  you're in a GitHub discussion. That's it. There's nothing else.
• 25:54
  You're isolated. You're isolated, yeah. I think you're exactly right.
• 25:59
  going to make us angry because it feels like our
• 26:01
  whole world depends on it because that is our current
• 26:04
  perception of the entire world. Now I don't know what
• 26:08
  to do about it. Oh, it's very simple. I know
• 26:11
  exactly what to do about it. When you read something
• 26:15
  on GitHub, cover your right eye. Use only your left
• 26:18
  eye. That's genius! I'm telling you. It may work. Was
• 26:24
  it like pirates when they had the iPad and they'd
• 26:27
  move it to the other side? Yeah. This is great.
• 26:31
  I'm going to try it myself. There might be something
• 26:35
  to this. It's like a chicken. You have to flip
• 26:37
  your head around the other way and look at it.
• 26:41
  Just a thought. I don't know. I mean, like, maybe
• 26:45
  I've... It's funny that I think I sort of intuitively
• 26:48
  felt that this was something going on here in this
• 26:52
  fashion because I had asked. Nathan. couple of weeks or
• 26:58
  I mentioned something and we interacted. about. the github discussions
• 27:05
  and and how i'd like was it a mistake to
• 27:08
  move away from the issues and I think I was
• 27:12
  just feeling uncomfortable with the whole thing. And I'm not
• 27:15
  saying that we should ditch discussions or all of that.
• 27:17
  I mean, no, no, it's not necessary, but I'm just.
• 27:20
  I think These are the types of things that open
• 27:22
  source projects do not discuss. And because they get intensely
• 27:28
  focused on the technology and that's all that matters, and
• 27:31
  in the background, these things are brewing. And these the
• 27:37
  it's these ancillary things that come into the the picture
• 27:41
  with open source projects. and create. flame wars and hurt
• 27:45
  feelings and all these kinds of things because they never
• 27:48
  talk about the world outside of just the technology that
• 27:52
  they're dealing with. You know, I've thought about our merry
• 27:56
  band of misfits a lot. Just in general. And I
• 28:01
  think that the... inadvertently the success of this project because
• 28:07
  it's just a project that we're doing here is two
• 28:11
  things. It's the mastodon. in combination with the GitHub. I
• 28:15
  mean, the GitHub is there for, obviously, for code and
• 28:17
  commits and PRs and I've, I, I, I realize I
• 28:22
  can't handle the discussions because I get mad. I'm just
• 28:25
  reading it like... I don't know what you're talking about.
• 28:28
  I'm the podfather. Get away. I'll shoot what she's saying.
• 28:31
  and the podcast. The board meeting. where we just kind
• 28:35
  of hash this stuff out and you can't and it
• 28:38
  only works with the live chat Those elements only. Yep.
• 28:43
  Yep. Yep. Those elements make this somehow make this thing
• 28:46
  work. makes i mean I don't know if I, I
• 28:51
  mean. You and I don't make any money off of
• 28:54
  this. Six years we've been doing this. We're doing it
• 28:57
  for reasons. But... It would have been a lot harder
• 29:02
  if we didn't have the Mastodon and the podcast with
• 29:07
  the chat. And this weekly kind of get together, you
• 29:10
  know, no set agenda, more or less. and just hash
• 29:15
  stuff out. goof off sometimes, have a good laugh, have
• 29:19
  a good weekend. See you on the Mastodon. you know?
• 29:22
  Yeah. I think that all open source projects should have
• 29:27
  some combination of this. I think you're right. It just
• 29:32
  feels critical, you know? Yeah, and this... I would go
• 29:37
  further and say that also... The Puny's Weekly Review is
• 29:42
  also a big part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, James
• 29:48
  and Sam, I do listen. They're like, they're like Adam
• 29:52
  Curry, Adam Curry. Otherwise, they don't think that my robot
• 29:54
  will pick it up. Listen, my robot is pretty sophisticated,
• 29:59
  okay? My robot.
• 30:00
  God knows what it's doing, and I do listen. But
• 30:04
  if they somehow stopped doing that show, we would probably
• 30:06
  just have them come on the show a lot. Yeah.
• 30:08
  Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And discuss things. Because I think it's
• 30:11
  just that. That's part of – But this is what
• 30:13
  blogging used to be. When Weiner had the right ideas
• 30:17
  about blogs... with uh, reposting. Um, Ah, you know... I
• 30:26
  forget all the different things that we had, but you
• 30:29
  could make a blog post about a blog post and
• 30:32
  then you could hit that tag, that blog post. It
• 30:35
  would show up on automatically on like a ping, ping
• 30:38
  back. Or whatever it was. Yeah, was that what it
• 30:40
  was called? I think that was called a pingback. Might
• 30:43
  have been a pingback, yeah. I mean, these were all
• 30:45
  the right ideas, and of course all these ideas got
• 30:49
  commercialized and hijacked the whole idea of the news feed.
• 30:53
  Facebook didn't have a news feed. They didn't have a
• 30:55
  feed. you know, like an RSS feed. But anyway. Well,
• 31:01
  I think, yeah, that's right, yeah. That's... So that's interesting
• 31:07
  because that was not at all what I was going
• 31:09
  to talk about. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no.
• 31:12
  Don't be sorry. No, we love a sage cast. There's
• 31:15
  nothing wrong with that. Now I felt, okay, so. I
• 31:20
  mistakenly felt you were grieving a little bit because we
• 31:23
  talked about it. about being a software engineer. and you
• 31:30
  know, just where this is headed with. coding agents etc
• 31:34
  and you felt a little bit bummed about it because
• 31:37
  i think you if i recall you said I love
• 31:40
  it and hate it immensely at the same time. Yes,
• 31:43
  that's right. So you weren't grieving over that. You were
• 31:46
  grieving over James. He made you cry. No, no, no,
• 31:50
  not at all. No, this is not true. No, no,
• 31:53
  no. No, your description is accurate. Yes. No, I'm. The
• 31:57
  only thing, the only little... You're right. The only little
• 32:00
  tweak, though, I would put into it is... that I
• 32:05
  felt Um... I still feel that way. I still hate
• 32:12
  AI intensely. And, and, and I. It's not like I
• 32:17
  want- I don't get a lot of joy from code.
• 32:22
  I haven't in a long time. It's the creation part
• 32:27
  that I like. The learning a new language, I've learned
• 32:31
  so many languages over the years. That part's not really
• 32:33
  interesting to me anymore. And the syntax and all these
• 32:36
  kinds of things, those are just... To me, it's just
• 32:38
  a little bit of drudgery. So diving into the AI
• 32:42
  coding is good from that standpoint because it's like, oh,
• 32:44
  it takes a lot of the drudgery out of it.
• 32:46
  But then at the same, but it also takes the
• 32:49
  creation out of it. And you feel, I feel like
• 32:52
  there's a, this happened too fast. We went from, I
• 32:56
  went, I personally went from writing. 100% of every piece
• 33:00
  of code that goes into Podcast Index and Godcaster and
• 33:04
  Freedom Controller and everything else I'm working on. to I
• 33:09
  write probably 10% of the code now. by hand. It's
• 33:15
  all. The Coding Agent And it happened. Within like two
• 33:20
  months. This is a monumental shift. Yeah. It's not something
• 33:25
  I was mentally or psychologically prepared for. I think that's
• 33:29
  where the grief is coming from because I don't really
• 33:31
  know what it means. What just happened? So here's my
• 33:35
  analogy, my analog to your story. When I... I was
• 33:41
  done doing radio. I mean, probably a little bit before
• 33:46
  the mid-90s. And... As you know, my story is that
• 33:51
  I got into radio by building my first transmitter and
• 33:55
  then building a mixer and, you know, putting two mismatched...
• 33:58
  turntables together and coming up with ways to queue up
• 34:03
  records which if i ever told you it was kind
• 34:06
  of quite genius So we'd have these little small mixers
• 34:10
  that were really mixers for guys doing. you know, clubs,
• 34:14
  and maybe you had two turntables, you know, two... One
• 34:18
  for a cassette deck. and maybe a mic channel. So
• 34:22
  we... we put micro switches into the faders so we'd
• 34:28
  un we'd open it up So when the fader is
• 34:30
  down, then the channel is closed and nothing's playing. So
• 34:34
  what you want is when you open the fader and
• 34:36
  you... You know, you slam it all the way up
• 34:39
  you want. So the channel is open at full volume
• 34:43
  the same time you want the record to start. So
• 34:46
  we would hook the micro switch up to a relay.
• 34:49
  So we'd... We would get big relays, you know, the
• 34:52
  big ones, big magnet in there. We break off the
• 34:55
  plastic cap. And then we'd get our turntable. You put
• 34:59
  an old record you don't want anymore on the turntable.
• 35:02
  Then we had an oversized slip mat. Remember slip mats?
• 35:06
  Yeah. So you get an oversized slip mat. So the
• 35:10
  edge of it was running through the relay. And so
• 35:13
  when the relay was activated, click, it grabs the slip
• 35:16
  mat. and then the record on top of the slip
• 35:19
  mat wouldn't move. Until you open the fader, the micro
• 35:24
  switch clicks off. Boom. The relay is deactivated. It opens
• 35:28
  up. The records start with only like... you know, like
• 35:32
  a quarter turn, it would be up to speed and
• 35:35
  it would start playing. So you could cue it up.
• 35:37
  which later, you know, people may remember that sound. This
• 35:41
  is beautifully analog. I love this. Precisely. Cassette decks. So
• 35:47
  we would use those for jingles. And so you'd have
• 35:51
  maybe 10 jingles on a cassette. And so you'd, you'd,
• 35:57
  uh, Pre-fader listening mode. You listen, you have your hand
• 36:01
  on the pause button. I'm like, okay, here it comes.
• 36:03
  It starts, click. You click it. You click pause, then
• 36:06
  you click eject, you put a pencil in and you
• 36:09
  would rewind the cassette about half a turn, put it
• 36:13
  back in, put on pause, and then when it was
• 36:15
  time to play that jingle, you just hit. the pause
• 36:17
  button, it would be queued up and ready to go.
• 36:19
  This is where I started. This is where I started.
• 36:21
  - In a, Nam said, "The fact that you did
• 36:24
  all this "and still lost your virginity is quite frankly
• 36:26
  amazing." - Well, funny enough, when chicks find out you're
• 36:29
  that guy on the radio, man, they wanna be in
• 36:32
  the studio. - John Holden, baby. - Yeah, John, that's
• 36:35
  right, John Holden, exactly. So then later we got. carts,
• 36:41
  which was originated from an eight track, the eight track
• 36:44
  system. The only difference with it, we would literally buy
• 36:48
  old eight tracks up. We'd drill a hole, probably like
• 36:52
  a, I'm going to say like a two inch hole
• 36:56
  on the bottom of it. So the cart machine, you'd
• 36:58
  stick it in front loader, and then the roller wheel
• 37:02
  would come up, but not quite hit the tape to
• 37:06
  the heads. But when you hit the play button, the
• 37:11
  roller would snap against the head, start playing, and it
• 37:15
  would start shuttling the tape around. And these things were
• 37:17
  just on a loop. And it would stop with the
• 37:20
  tone you put on the tape. I mean, literally, if
• 37:22
  you wanted to reuse your cart, you had to... Put
• 37:26
  it on a big magnet and degauss it. Just wipe
• 37:30
  it. Wipe it. Yeah, exactly. So that's where I came
• 37:33
  from. And, you know, there was no lights. telling you
• 37:38
  the record was over you know you had to kind
• 37:40
  of time it or listen if you went to the
• 37:42
  can or whatever and mixing it was you know it
• 37:46
  was a it was a an art you know like
• 37:48
  okay here's it's just at the end of the song
• 37:51
  boom i'm gonna hit the throw up the next it
• 37:53
  was physical too it's real physical boom and that's why
• 37:56
  we'd stand you know i want to energy so i'm
• 37:58
  standing and i'm doing all this physical stuff and i'm
• 38:01
  and then i don't i only know the intros and
• 38:04
  outros of songs i don't know any of the lyrics
• 38:06
  in the middle because in the middle of the song
• 38:08
  we're not listening to the song we're getting our next
• 38:10
  record this is and we're choosing a record take it
• 38:13
  out of the sleeve put it on cue it up
• 38:15
  okay good boom i'm back okay i got 30 seconds
• 38:19
  left. Boom, I'm into the next record. This was a...
• 38:23
  thing, you know, you're in the vibe and, and all
• 38:27
  kinds of stuff could happen that could, that could jar
• 38:30
  you out a bit. But when you're in the, in
• 38:32
  the groove was just fantastic. And so The next time
• 38:37
  I looked at radio, it was all digital. And that
• 38:40
  meant that there were no records. It was all on
• 38:43
  hard drive. And you had waveforms. And you literally would
• 38:48
  queue up a mix. You didn't do a mix live
• 38:50
  anymore. You just put this waveform here, that waveform there.
• 38:53
  Okay, let's do it. It's good. I'm done. And it
• 38:56
  would do it all automatically. And I hated it. I
• 38:59
  mean, this sucks. This is not the art. that I
• 39:04
  used to be a part of. Now, it took me...
• 39:08
  many years actually before I was doing digital production radio
• 39:14
  again, and I got into it. And I'm like, okay.
• 39:18
  Now I can focus on other things and I can...
• 39:22
  I can get, you know, it's different, but I'm still
• 39:25
  able to get joy out of it. But when I
• 39:29
  do like I used to do daily source code, you
• 39:32
  know, FUBAR Friday, it would be digital, but I wouldn't
• 39:36
  do it on a digital machine. you know, that all
• 39:39
  the kids are using, I would just have players. I
• 39:42
  still use players lined up and I hit them manually.
• 39:45
  I don't like the whole mixing it together bit. So
• 39:47
  I've, I've kind of created my own IDE, if you
• 39:50
  will, uh, for radio, uh, with music. Now the other
• 39:55
  analogy is flying. I learned to fly. The Ascendant
• 40:00
  It's in a 182RG retractable gear, high-speed prop. It's a
• 40:05
  fast plane. with what we call a six-pack. So I
• 40:08
  had six dials, you know, altimeter, attitude, speed, critically, your
• 40:14
  airspeed, you know, your roll and bank. And so... If
• 40:20
  you're doing an approach to an airport on the ILS
• 40:23
  instrument landing system, you know you you would literally fly
• 40:30
  based upon a chart that you had on your lap,
• 40:33
  okay, called the approach plate, because you have to fly
• 40:35
  this teardrop to then come down before you can pick
• 40:39
  up. the instrument landing system and you'd make that turn
• 40:42
  you have to do a standard rate turn and you'd
• 40:45
  have to time it. Literally with a stopwatch, which was
• 40:50
  on the panel. Because then you would know at a
• 40:53
  certain speed. So then you would know that you had
• 40:55
  completed that teardrop circle. And you knew it because then
• 40:58
  you would see. the needles start to come together because
• 41:01
  the instrument landing system has two needles that cross like
• 41:05
  a cross. One is, okay, you're on the right direction,
• 41:07
  and the other one is you're on the glide path.
• 41:09
  You're at the right altitude, and so as the needle...
• 41:14
  moves you want to move the aircraft you want to
• 41:17
  point the nose down so that you're on that glide
• 41:19
  path and then at 300 feet. If you don't break
• 41:22
  out of the clouds, you're going to go back up
• 41:24
  again and go around. But typically, 300 feet, you break
• 41:27
  out of the clouds. There's the runway. You're landing within
• 41:29
  20 seconds. Okay. So I converted to a modern aircraft
• 41:34
  a few years ago. the Cirrus, it's all glass. And
• 41:38
  it freaked me out. I'm like. It only has one
• 41:43
  backup airspeed indicator. I'm like, it's like a video game.
• 41:48
  I can't do this. I was struggling. And then for
• 41:52
  that turn for the ILS. So my instructor said, okay,
• 41:57
  and you just follow the thing on the screen. I
• 41:59
  said, wait a minute. This is how the kids are
• 42:01
  doing. You can do this on a test? Oh, yeah.
• 42:04
  Oh, yeah. You just follow the screen like a video
• 42:06
  game. And I was like, well, this is no good.
• 42:10
  This is not, that's not flying. This is, this is,
• 42:13
  this sucks. No. Now that I've converted to that... And
• 42:18
  imminent death is always kind of there when you're flying.
• 42:21
  I'm like, this is actually better. It's actually pretty good.
• 42:25
  But I know that in a pinch, I could figure
• 42:27
  stuff out and I could rely on my senses. And,
• 42:31
  you know, it does have a... an attitude indicator so
• 42:36
  I wouldn't be flying upside down in the clouds if
• 42:39
  everything blanked out. I'm just saying, my point being... Hang
• 42:44
  in there. You will find your groove and your vibe
• 42:48
  in a new way. that I think will maybe even
• 42:53
  bring you more creative juices than you ever expected. And
• 42:57
  I heard Jeff Bezos. Actually, we played this on... on
• 43:01
  no agenda. It was a crazy... Silicon Valley term that
• 43:06
  he used. Oh, Lord. Yeah, but in hindsight, because I
• 43:11
  laughed at it yesterday, but listen to this. I know
• 43:13
  there's a lot of concern that many people have, including
• 43:17
  many smart people. that AI is going to make humans
• 43:20
  redundant and so on. I totally disagree with this point
• 43:23
  of view. And I think, in fact, AI is going
• 43:26
  to create a labor shortage because it's going to make
• 43:29
  it possible for people to identify more problems. We have
• 43:32
  an endless set of things to invent. And we are
• 43:35
  only limited. Today, we are limited. not by our imaginations,
• 43:40
  but by what we can actually do. I promise you,
• 43:43
  every single person in this audience has had an idea.
• 43:47
  for a new business or a new product or a
• 43:50
  new device that they wish they could manufacture. And that
• 43:54
  I just stayed in your head. It went nowhere. And
• 43:58
  the reason it stayed in your head and went nowhere
• 44:01
  is because it's too hard to do and it wasn't
• 44:03
  worth it. And if we can accelerate the dream build
• 44:06
  loop, all of the ideas will then become possible. And
• 44:09
  then we end up being limited not by our capabilities,
• 44:13
  but by our imaginations. So the dream build loop, laughable,
• 44:18
  gross. However, this happens to me continuously. I have dream
• 44:25
  build loops all the time. And last night I had
• 44:29
  an idea for Godcaster. It's kind of irrelevant what it
• 44:32
  is. But it almost came to me in a dream.
• 44:36
  And today I'm almost done building it. Now. I have
• 44:40
  a different relationship to code than you do, but I
• 44:43
  think as hokey as it sounds. There's something to what
• 44:48
  he's saying about that. To me, that's like kind of
• 44:54
  back to that digital radio. I can do more and
• 44:57
  I can be creative. other ways that I couldn't. back
• 45:01
  in the analog days. To me, the... The difficulty here...
• 45:12
  is that The difference, the dream build loop. is not
• 45:19
  a loop. It's a straight... It's a path. And the
• 45:26
  path may go uphill. It may go around a bunch
• 45:31
  of rocks. It may go through deep water. And if
• 45:35
  you... And depending on how difficult that is, path is?
• 45:41
  may help you determine whether or not it's worth it.
• 45:45
  To continue going or to set it aside and do
• 45:49
  something different. I agree. I think the loop is lame.
• 45:52
  I agree. The dream build path may be better. That's,
• 45:56
  to me, that's the dark pattern. of AI is that
• 46:00
  it reduces the build friction down so low that you
• 46:05
  do start building everything. And the world wasn't meant for
• 46:09
  everything to be built. It was only meant for things
• 46:12
  to be built that... contributes something to either the people
• 46:16
  in it or the world around those people in it
• 46:19
  in a positive way. I think because this is the
• 46:23
  issue of. the issue we talked about before with like
• 46:27
  AI generated podcasts. in And I've got a lot of
• 46:33
  thoughts on that right now going, is with this FastCast
• 46:39
  thing that came out. The AI-generated pike. When the friction
• 46:43
  to build is reduced to almost zero, what you do
• 46:47
  is you flood the world. Right, but is it really
• 46:50
  flooding the world? I mean, it's just flooding up space
• 46:55
  that is... technically cheap it's not like Look, I don't
• 47:00
  know a lot of people. There's very few people who
• 47:02
  said, I started listening to No Agenda because I was
• 47:06
  searching in a podcast app for news with No Agenda
• 47:10
  and your show popped up. Maybe one hand I can
• 47:13
  count those people. It all comes from somewhere else. It
• 47:17
  didn't come from searching in a podcast app. Now. It's
• 47:20
  different from YouTube, where YouTube, who are having a really
• 47:24
  hard time now trying to suppress the slop because they
• 47:27
  have to identify it, and that comes into some of
• 47:29
  the podcast stuff we got to talk about. Um, it's
• 47:33
  it's you know they have algos that are presenting stuff
• 47:36
  to people and now you're fighting a lot more content
• 47:40
  that's out there than you were before. But when it
• 47:42
  comes to podcasting, good luck. I've always said this is
• 47:46
  ephemeral. I don't think this is going to carry on
• 47:50
  very long because it's just ultimately not going to work.
• 47:53
  People won't find it. Those who do think it'll be
• 47:56
  limited, who enjoy. whatever the content is, you know, there's
• 48:00
  an audience for it. I listened to one or two.
• 48:04
  text-to-speech automated things. It's alright, but it's not the same
• 48:11
  as something I'm going to become a part of a
• 48:13
  community and enjoy listening to and will talk to other
• 48:16
  people about. Yeah, I think you're talking about it in
• 48:21
  the context of... projects and you know dream build loop
• 48:25
  and that kind of thing and that i think that's
• 48:28
  That's the issue is that... For instance... Let's see, I
• 48:34
  think search. is Search is the only way. It's the
• 48:40
  reason Google is what they are. Search is the only
• 48:44
  way the internet even pretends to function. You can't have
• 48:50
  an internet without some functional level of search involved. and
• 48:55
  the, you know, like for instance. uh, NVIDIA. Mm-hmm. the
• 49:02
  DJX Spark. So the DJX Spark. has that community is
• 49:11
  building a lot of tools. So they've got a lot
• 49:14
  of stuff that they, and of course they're all vibe
• 49:16
  coding. And so there's... There's literally dozens of different versions
• 49:22
  of... Top. The processor. you know, monitoring software that you
• 49:30
  use a lot in Linux and Linux. They've built all
• 49:33
  these different clones of Top that are specific to the
• 49:36
  DGX Spark. to monitor the unified memory segments and the
• 49:41
  Blackwell GPUs and memory and all these kinds of things.
• 49:44
  So they're all very specific to this DJI X Spark.
• 49:47
  Well, if you go to look, which one are you
• 49:49
  going to use? Like, there's dozens. I have no idea.
• 49:54
  The MSI. The MSI, of course. Some of them may
• 49:58
  even be malicious.
• 50:00
  and have supply chain hijacking modules. You just don't know.
• 50:06
  This is the problem. But in the previous time, I
• 50:10
  go back to... The You know, you talked about the
• 50:14
  old days of DJing and radio and that kind of
• 50:17
  thing. the manual nature of all those things contributed something
• 50:23
  to the overall quality of the output. You know, it's
• 50:27
  going to take, it takes a, it took a... A
• 50:32
  DJ in Cleveland to really put Rush on the map.
• 50:37
  because she... was just determined she loved this band she
• 50:40
  was going to play their stuff on on air And
• 50:43
  it was like that. It was such a strong signal
• 50:47
  of quality. At that time. And that's what. That's what
• 50:52
  code used to be. Yeah. It used to be a
• 50:55
  strong quality indicator and now there's no... indicators whatsoever. It's
• 51:00
  just noise. Bemrose makes a good point. No agenda art
• 51:04
  generator is an excellent example. Where... Excuse me. choke out
• 51:12
  the thing oops it's going crazy i didn't mean to
• 51:16
  do that um So we'd have people listening to the
• 51:20
  show, artists with Photoshop mainly, but some would draw stuff
• 51:24
  by hand and scan it. They make album art for
• 51:27
  each show and it would be ready for us by
• 51:28
  the time we're done. So once the AI generators came
• 51:32
  along, people started flooding it with AI art images. And
• 51:36
  at this point, I don't think a single... No, that's
• 51:39
  not true. Almost every single artist left as in they
• 51:42
  don't make art anymore. They may not even listen to
• 51:44
  the show. I mean, they got so disappointed. It used
• 51:47
  to be a real race. You know, it's like, wow,
• 51:50
  you know, I created this and I did it within
• 51:52
  30 minutes and was there ready for them. And they
• 51:54
  didn't pick my art. But people would still have appreciation
• 51:58
  for it. you did. We always discuss the art afterwards.
• 52:00
  Oh, we like what you did, but we didn't pick
• 52:02
  it for this reason. It was like a review of
• 52:04
  the artist's work, which they don't get an honest review
• 52:06
  usually in commercial settings. And we gave them an honest
• 52:08
  review. So then the AI generators came along. And it
• 52:13
  became. It was really, really bad in the beginning. The
• 52:18
  whole page would be filled with... orange looking images then
• 52:22
  the cartoon models came out and everything looked like a
• 52:25
  cartoon and it sucked balls And then slowly... we're seeing
• 52:30
  two things happen. One, some of the artists who were
• 52:33
  OG artists like Blue Acorn and Nessworks, they started figuring
• 52:39
  out how to use. this tool and are winning picks.
• 52:44
  And then there's a guy who could not do art
• 52:46
  at all, Darren O'Neill. He's almost the top guy because
• 52:49
  he understands the humor. He understands how to translate a
• 52:53
  humorous idea. Into. into his generation model. And what comes
• 53:00
  out is often hilarious. The people who are just slapping
• 53:04
  away, slopping away, trying to, you know, then uploading stuff.
• 53:09
  Eventually they quit because they never get chosen. So... It
• 53:14
  was a real bummer for a while. And now it's
• 53:17
  kind of coming into a new... a new place. And
• 53:20
  from time to time, you'll have someone just upload something
• 53:22
  completely hand-drawn, completely handmade. It stands out so beautifully. Like,
• 53:26
  boom, you're a winner. Not all of them, but some
• 53:29
  of them. Same goes for end of show mixes. Finally,
• 53:32
  people are starting to write lyrics to go with their
• 53:35
  songs, and they're figuring out how to make Sunot. do
• 53:38
  something so it sounds different from every other single AI
• 53:42
  slop song out there. So there's a curve, and I've
• 53:45
  seen this in accelerated time, and I expect it to
• 53:48
  be with everything. I expect the same curve to take
• 53:51
  place with all arts and sciences, I guess. There's... I've
• 53:59
  been through so many of these cycles. And we both
• 54:03
  have. I mean, I started... My first computer was a
• 54:07
  Commodore 64 and, you know. in the 80s and when
• 54:11
  I was young and if you've been in the... technology,
• 54:16
  computer world that long. I've been there. I've been there.
• 54:18
  Peek and poke, baby. Yeah, when you've been in it
• 54:21
  that long and you've gone from... Loading programs into memory
• 54:27
  from a cassette tape. And then you're literally trying to...
• 54:33
  Get your add-on card to work by changing jumpers on
• 54:38
  the board and putting... putting drivers into your system.ini file
• 54:44
  and all these. And then you get to a point
• 54:49
  in your career where you no longer have servers on-premises,
• 54:54
  everything's in the cloud. There's been so many of these
• 54:59
  changes. Drum. You get used to just... moving along with
• 55:05
  the flow of the way that things... I don't like
• 55:08
  using the word progress. I just don't like that term.
• 55:13
  It's just things go in a different direction. All right.
• 55:16
  Let's move in. Let's move into some podcasting stuff. Cause
• 55:18
  we, you know, we've once again, and we. talked about
• 55:20
  ourselves for an hour. What else is there? Let me
• 55:27
  cover my left eye here for a second. Okay. Do
• 55:30
  a little better. Okay. So we've already, so let's just
• 55:35
  circle back quickly to the VTT. So we have resolution
• 55:39
  now. I think I understand what he's saying. I think
• 55:44
  he's saying... You can do whatever you want, but you
• 55:47
  support it if you support VTT. Right. That means you
• 55:53
  adhere to the spec. I'm down with that. I think
• 55:57
  that's fine. I don't know why. It took so long
• 56:00
  for me to understand this. I guess it's just a
• 56:02
  miscommunication. But I think that's fine, and I think we
• 56:06
  could do that with most of these tags that have
• 56:07
  multiple formats. I'm going to move us along. Podping.alpha. Stable.
• 56:12
  Stable. Five nines. So this. on Got so many irons
• 56:19
  in the... fire on the podcast index side the putt
• 56:24
  Nathan. GethRide. Just... picked me up by the scruff of
• 56:32
  the neck and threw me down a rabbit hole. Wow.
• 56:35
  Like... And he had no idea that he was doing
• 56:38
  it. He innocently posted about the iTunes. tag, excuse me,
• 56:47
  the You can add feeds to the podcast index in
• 56:52
  many ways. One of them is through the add. by
• 56:57
  iTunes ID endpoint. in the API. And so. If you
• 57:04
  have an iTunes ID... that doesn't appear to be in
• 57:07
  the index. You can add a feed to the index
• 57:11
  by referencing its iTunes ID. using that endpoint. Wait, say
• 57:15
  that again? So if you know one of the functions
• 57:19
  of the index is that's fall back to where you
• 57:22
  can do iTunes. You can look, yeah, you can look
• 57:25
  up. Yeah. And so if you don't have... Like if
• 57:31
  you pull the index and we don't have a feed
• 57:34
  either by URL or by iTunes ID. You can add
• 57:38
  it. to the index by just referencing its iTunes ID.
• 57:43
  and we'll do the backup. No, excuse me, we'll do
• 57:46
  the lookup. And yeah, here's thank you, Nathan, the link
• 57:52
  master that you are. Let me quote him correctly. When
• 57:57
  Podlink looks up a show by its iTunes ID in
• 58:00
  the index. returns no results but the feed is already
• 58:02
  in the index is there anything you'd like me to
• 58:04
  do with that information Sounds pretty straightforward. Yeah. This led
• 58:12
  me to a gigantic rabbit hole. Because... I found out
• 58:16
  that that... I thought that the index... I thought that
• 58:21
  that's already what was happening. That's the way I wanted
• 58:23
  it to work. But... The more I looked at that
• 58:28
  endpoint, It was a mess. I don't know what I
• 58:32
  was thinking when I wrote that thing. It makes no
• 58:35
  sense. Whatever it's trying to do, it is not that.
• 58:39
  And I can't make. it make any sense. So... I
• 58:44
  was like, okay, I'm going to have to rewrite this.
• 58:48
  Well, that turned into... A long process because. Then all
• 58:55
  of your directories sync. things become You have to think
• 59:00
  it. all through. end. What if, so somebody has an
• 59:07
  iTunes ID. They add. They reference that in the ad
• 59:12
  by iTunes ID end point. So there is the index
• 59:17
  says, oh, okay. You've given me an iTunes ID. and
• 59:20
  I need to go find the feed URL and add
• 59:23
  this to the index. can What? What if it already
• 59:30
  has the ID? Right. Okay. Internally, the way we do
• 59:36
  it is we have two directories. The podcast index is...
• 59:40
  It has an Apple directory internally to it, and it
• 59:43
  has its regular directory. Now, we don't scrape Apple for
• 59:47
  their stuff. But we just keep it segregated, and then
• 59:51
  we just do a table relationship between the feeds table
• 59:54
  in the podcast index and the Apple table. So we
• 59:58
  just go insert it into the Apple.
• 1:00:00
  directory and then we just link it. *Clears throat* So
• 1:00:06
  What if we already have that iTunes ID? Are we
• 1:00:11
  going to look up Apple every time? No, probably shouldn't.
• 1:00:15
  Well, but what if the URL changed? What if they
• 1:00:20
  have a different one than, what if Apple has a
• 1:00:22
  different one than we have the last one? Oh, just
• 1:00:24
  give them the no agenda feed. Every time. Every time.
• 1:00:27
  For every fee. Every time. Every time. Yeah. I want
• 1:00:31
  the Simon the Gardener or whatever from the AI thing.
• 1:00:36
  There you go. That's a good idea. and Cumberbund or
• 1:00:40
  whatever his name was. From inception point AI. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:42
  and you get no agenda. So... Um... Then you just
• 1:00:49
  have to think all this through. Okay, so we do
• 1:00:53
  have to check every time. Okay, what if you check?
• 1:00:57
  and you get back a different result. Then what? we
• 1:01:02
  have in our apple table. Do we then have to...
• 1:01:10
  Double check. The feed URL that we have and that
• 1:01:15
  Apple has. to make sure that Apple... seems correct because
• 1:01:21
  they can have old stuff in there too. We know
• 1:01:24
  from long experience. that sometimes people don't update their Apple,
• 1:01:29
  their URL in Apple's podcast connect correctly. And so if
• 1:01:34
  we just blindly change it. without checking to make sure
• 1:01:37
  it's right. So this I've just been going round and
• 1:01:43
  round with the logic of this thing, tying myself in
• 1:01:45
  mental knots. But... I'm at the point now where I'm
• 1:01:49
  just going to have to ship something. I don't. Ship
• 1:01:52
  it! Ship it! Because the questions... really have broader ramifications.
• 1:01:59
  about refactoring. a lot of what we're doing. And I'm
• 1:02:05
  not ready to go there right now. So I'm just
• 1:02:08
  going to have to ship something that broadly meets... what
• 1:02:12
  this endpoint is supposed to do and just deal with
• 1:02:15
  the consequences. And once that happens, then next on the
• 1:02:22
  list is Podping.alpha. Yes. You brought up podping.alpha, and that
• 1:02:28
  was my long-winded way of saying it. He's doing the
• 1:02:31
  weave. That's next. That's next. Because I think it's stable.
• 1:02:37
  And I think it's time to... split it out into
• 1:02:40
  the so Right now it's this monolithic thing, so we
• 1:02:44
  need to split it out into a... Podping. Excuse me,
• 1:02:50
  a gossip writer. repo and a gossip listener repo. in
• 1:02:57
  a gossip monitor repo. And the monitor. That term is
• 1:03:03
  a little bit of a misnomer because it's doing, it
• 1:03:05
  is monitoring, but it's also doing management of the swarm.
• 1:03:09
  So it's... Eero. uh uses high power view And it's
• 1:03:22
  prone to... having drift, we've talked about this before, nodes
• 1:03:28
  can drift off to where they're quote, poorly connected. they
• 1:03:34
  can kind of isolate themselves off where they don't have
• 1:03:36
  a good, they don't have more, they only have one
• 1:03:39
  path. to the swarm. Like incels. Insane. Hero incel. It's
• 1:03:46
  like an NSFW Reddit. Yeah. And so... A dangling bastard.
• 1:03:56
  So the monitor... The Podbean Monitor. Watches for those things.
• 1:04:03
  And then... gently reaches out and pulls them back into
• 1:04:07
  the family. How sweet. How sweet. Yeah, it just gives
• 1:04:11
  a little gentle nudge. Come on back, baby. Come on
• 1:04:14
  back to the fan. Come on. Why so cold, sugar?
• 1:04:18
  Come on back. And so, and it does that by
• 1:04:22
  sending, it does that by sending some messages saying, here
• 1:04:26
  is a set of nodes. that you should try to
• 1:04:31
  connect to right now. And that instantly gets it back.
• 1:04:35
  up and running where it's well connected. So that once
• 1:04:40
  that happens. Once we get those repos split out. then
• 1:04:47
  we can bake them directly into the podping.cloud. servers so
• 1:04:55
  that They are riding to Hive and to... gossip at
• 1:05:00
  the same time. So that's the plan. I like it.
• 1:05:06
  Thanks. I'm just waiting until you tell me it's safe
• 1:05:11
  for me to launch a Linode with running one of
• 1:05:13
  these things. Just a little $5 a month. Yeah, totally.
• 1:05:17
  Run it. Yeah, just let it run. I just, right
• 1:05:21
  now, like, ah, I gotta go upgrade and do all
• 1:05:23
  this stuff. It feels like a lot. I just want,
• 1:05:24
  when it's... When it's, uh, when you got an RC.
• 1:05:28
  I really, yeah, okay, RC2, wait for RC2, RC1's brittle.
• 1:05:32
  Gold master. Yeah, that's what I want. Nathan said he's
• 1:05:36
  running a gossip listener as well. Yes, anybody who... and
• 1:05:40
  Eric and Archie's running a bunch. So anybody who wants
• 1:05:46
  to run one, feel free. The more, the better. The
• 1:05:49
  more people that run a gossip listener. the better. the
• 1:05:56
  swarm will operate. The more there are, the more stable
• 1:06:01
  the whole... Pierce Warren becomes. I think the whole idea
• 1:06:04
  is fantastic. Now, can I poison and stuff by, if
• 1:06:07
  I run my... My gossiper and it just starts spouting
• 1:06:12
  off stuff that's incorrect and lies. No. Okay. Because There
• 1:06:18
  are trusted nodes. And the trusted nodes list will initially
• 1:06:26
  just only contain. the five pod ping dot cloud gossip
• 1:06:32
  writers. In the future, there will be... The code's already
• 1:06:38
  in there, but. The gossip writers, if somebody else wants
• 1:06:44
  to run a writer, to push... Podpings out to the
• 1:06:49
  swarm. You can, but initially you will not be trusted,
• 1:06:53
  so the nodes in the swarm will... ignore your stuff.
• 1:06:59
  there is a way to, there's a voting mechanism that
• 1:07:03
  happens like a plebiscite. Where? Plebiscite. Ooh. We're the... So
• 1:07:13
  it's like... It's a, yeah, it's a pod, it's a
• 1:07:17
  podcast. plebiscite where you have all these uh the the
• 1:07:23
  nodes like if i trust your node And you mark.
• 1:07:27
  A note is trusted. It propagates. So like the five,
• 1:07:32
  the five, the pod pain dot cloud. initial riders. If
• 1:07:39
  somebody else fires one up and we trust that person...
• 1:07:43
  Let's say that it's you or Nathan or Eric PP
• 1:07:47
  or Archie or somebody. we can, uh, or, or bus
• 1:07:51
  route or Apple or anybody else. We can... Mark them
• 1:07:57
  as trusted on thepodping.com. cloud host. And that will propagate
• 1:08:01
  and everyone else will inherit that trust. We can vote
• 1:08:07
  nodes off the island. Yeah, exactly. We love that. Yes,
• 1:08:11
  yes, yes, yes. Um. So yeah, that's the initial idea.
• 1:08:17
  And that's already in there, that code word. Like it.
• 1:08:26
  That's what it's gonna be, so, uh... I hope it
• 1:08:29
  works. It seems to be. We're depending on it. I've
• 1:08:35
  already got some stuff that's depending on that. signal so
• 1:08:41
  uh i love this man i love that we talked
• 1:08:42
  about a whole bunch of stuff and didn't once talk
• 1:08:45
  about uh 30 seconds is a play! I could I
• 1:08:52
  could so care less about that me too I gave
• 1:08:54
  everybody my idea And no one jumped on it, so
• 1:08:59
  it's good. What was I hearing? I wrote this down.
• 1:09:04
  was it That was on, I think it was on.
• 1:09:10
  Hot News Weekly Review The indie middle class. I hate
• 1:09:14
  two words I hate. Indie. I hate the indie. Why
• 1:09:18
  do you hate? Why does that? bother you so much
• 1:09:20
  because You're a podcaster. There's no such thing as indie.
• 1:09:25
  That is being a podcaster. You are by definition independent
• 1:09:29
  if you're a podcaster. So now there's these, this is
• 1:09:33
  delineate. It's like open RSS. I despise that too. It's
• 1:09:36
  RSS, not open RSS. It's RSS. Because when you say
• 1:09:40
  indie podcaster, it means that the other ones who are
• 1:09:43
  not indie, those are the podcasters. Yeah, something like that.
• 1:09:46
  Okay, I'm down with that. Well, it was an interesting
• 1:09:50
  conversation I heard. Yeah, so indie, the indie middle class,
• 1:09:56
  like, why don't you say indie middle class with one
• 1:09:58
  leg, okay? Thank you.
• 1:10:00
  Say that. I'll feel better. Did this conversation happen in
• 1:10:02
  the super secret WhatsApp group? No, this is on the,
• 1:10:06
  the, the, the, where was this? Power, a pod news
• 1:10:09
  power. Uh... which is 5,000 to 25,000 downloads a month.
• 1:10:17
  That's only 1% to 1.5% of all podcasts. So there
• 1:10:20
  you are. You were a podcaster, now you're an indie
• 1:10:23
  podcast, now you're 1%. And they can't survive on CPMs.
• 1:10:29
  And what I liked about what the outcome of this
• 1:10:32
  is, is that, yeah, it's. Oh, this was that woman.
• 1:10:35
  Lush. Right, the... Lush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um You know,
• 1:10:42
  instead of selling an audience number. I mean, like this,
• 1:10:46
  we have... I should probably look that up. How many
• 1:10:49
  people do you think listened to this board meeting? I
• 1:10:53
  should look that up. I haven't looked at OP3. Yeah,
• 1:10:56
  I'm going to look. Let's see. Long time. Take a
• 1:11:00
  guess. Do you even know what the OP3 link is?
• 1:11:02
  Yeah. Take a guess. What do you think it is?
• 1:11:05
  Over what time frame? What are we talking about? Monthly.
• 1:11:09
  Just monthly, I guess. Like over 30 days or something?
• 1:11:12
  2,500. Uh, this is interesting. Why can't I find us
• 1:11:16
  here? Oh, here we go. We're on the second page.
• 1:11:19
  What the heck is that? Okay. Uh, let's see. 2,500,
• 1:11:25
  you said? 2141. No, not seven days. 6658. So according
• 1:11:33
  to, that's May. Okay, so over 30 days we had
• 1:11:37
  6,700 roughly. Yeah, so according to OP3, our unique audience
• 1:11:44
  in May was 5,247. So we're right in that indie
• 1:11:49
  range. Oh, cool. Nice. We're indie. But look at the
• 1:11:53
  value that we create. Look at the value that is
• 1:11:55
  running around in this ecosystem of people. We're firmly middle
• 1:11:59
  class. with one leg of people supporting the project, keeping
• 1:12:04
  it running, the joy we get for it. I mean,
• 1:12:07
  this is a hugely successful project and podcast in my
• 1:12:11
  mind. You know, we're not Rogan. But we don't have
• 1:12:15
  to be. And so the value that it creates. for
• 1:12:20
  the people. involved and for you and I personally is
• 1:12:23
  fantastic. This is a success story. If I remember correctly,
• 1:12:28
  that lady was all about brokering deals with advertisers. I
• 1:12:32
  know, but I – They only care about numbers. Right,
• 1:12:36
  but I have a different takeaway. My takeaway is. This
• 1:12:41
  is what V for V is. It's not just about
• 1:12:44
  money. And I think that's hugely underplayed in all podcast
• 1:12:49
  reporting. It's all about money and seconds and plays and
• 1:12:53
  CPMs. Who cares? Podcasting. Don't call me an indie. Podcaster.
• 1:13:01
  See, this is the problem. We already have... controversy because
• 1:13:09
  yes because Daniel J Lewis says Don't confuse the number
• 1:13:13
  of downloads of multiple episodes with the number of people.
• 1:13:15
  Podcasting 2.0 looks to have about 1,800 regular listeners. Whatever.
• 1:13:21
  See, there's already, it's like the OP3 says you have
• 1:13:24
  6,600 unique. 52. 5,200 unique listeners. And Daniel's like, no,
• 1:13:31
  you only have 1,800. There's already controversy. I don't care
• 1:13:35
  either way. I don't care. This, like... On the- on
• 1:13:40
  the- Just because it's a thing that we're talking about
• 1:13:44
  numbers. The- The how long a play is thing is
• 1:13:50
  meaningless because everything caches, not just web browsers. Web browsers
• 1:13:55
  aren't the only ones that cache audio and video. All
• 1:13:58
  decent... apps, cash, audio, and video. Every single one of
• 1:14:02
  them. You find out very quickly when you write a
• 1:14:05
  podcast app. that you can't not do it. You have
• 1:14:09
  to cash a few minutes. Yeah, exactly. At least a
• 1:14:12
  minute and a half to two or three minutes because...
• 1:14:15
  When people go in and out of bad network connectivity,
• 1:14:18
  you have to... to be able to buffer through that.
• 1:14:20
  and Because that's why. We decided early on that Godcaster
• 1:14:25
  was going to send... a play button click once per
• 1:14:28
  user per hour. and a user is defined according to
• 1:14:33
  what um Um, Benjamin, Dan Benjamin and I. came up
• 1:14:42
  with a few years ago, the UL ID, the unique
• 1:14:45
  listener ID. So we generate a UL ID and send
• 1:14:49
  it with everyone and we deduplicate based on that. This
• 1:14:54
  is the problem with having only first party data collectors
• 1:14:57
  like YouTube and Spotify. inside this inside this group driving
• 1:15:03
  these technical definitions. Yeah, exactly. They can see the difference
• 1:15:06
  between a 30 millisecond play and a 30 second play,
• 1:15:10
  but no other podcast apps can. And that's the problem.
• 1:15:15
  They don't have anybody from the world of podcast of.
• 1:15:19
  of podcast app developers in this little group. Now why
• 1:15:23
  would they? It's all BS. Why would they? And they're
• 1:15:26
  dead to me. I was a pirate radio broadcaster for
• 1:15:31
  half of my life. He had no, even when I
• 1:15:34
  was a radio broadcaster. They had no way to really
• 1:15:38
  know how many people were listening. It's statistics based upon
• 1:15:41
  people writing down in a diary. Oh yeah, I listened
• 1:15:44
  to that. I listened to that station. Listen. Oh yeah,
• 1:15:46
  yeah, sure. It's gotten a little more sophisticated. But that
• 1:15:51
  never mattered. I mean, it mattered to station managers later.
• 1:15:54
  What share do we have? Well, we went up a
• 1:15:56
  tenth of a point. Champagne! You know, okay. I never
• 1:16:00
  cared. It was the person who came up to me
• 1:16:02
  in the mall and said, hey, man, I heard your
• 1:16:04
  show. That was great. It's still that way. Yeah. It's
• 1:16:08
  still that way. You know, now... With Godcast, it's kind
• 1:16:13
  of interesting because all those stations, they live off of
• 1:16:17
  donations. And you know, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's, you can
• 1:16:22
  do some, it's interesting for programming the station, you know,
• 1:16:26
  what podcasts that are streamed out, what people listen to,
• 1:16:30
  what placement in the player, you know, and. But it
• 1:16:34
  doesn't excite me. What excites me is someone clicked on
• 1:16:37
  a give button to show that they were interested in
• 1:16:39
  supporting the station or the programming. And that's all that
• 1:16:44
  counts with no agenda. It's the same thing. I don't
• 1:16:46
  care how many people listen. I really don't. People say,
• 1:16:49
  I'm quitting the show. Okay, whatever. I like when people
• 1:16:54
  announce that. I couldn't listen anymore. I unsubscribed. Subscribed. My
• 1:17:04
  nephew the other day sent me this video. And it's
• 1:17:07
  the Mr. Beast people talking about how they... how they
• 1:17:12
  in real time watch their metrics. Oh yeah, to fine
• 1:17:15
  tune what they're doing, absolutely. To fine tune their thumbnail.
• 1:17:20
  Mm-hmm. They can change the thumbnail on a video. hundred
• 1:17:26
  times or more over the lifetime of that video just
• 1:17:29
  tweaking the thumbnail and watching what it takes to to
• 1:17:34
  modify the curve of the of the you know feedback
• 1:17:38
  that they get or the plays Yeah. That is miserable.
• 1:17:42
  Who wants that noise? No, we don't want that in
• 1:17:46
  podcasting. That's horrible. Does anybody want that? That's what metric-based,
• 1:17:52
  number-based... all this stuff work you know that's that's the
• 1:17:56
  way all this works and we don't nobody wants that
• 1:17:59
  no No. Here's how it works with no agenda. Hey,
• 1:18:03
  man, donations are down. Let's complain about it. Yeah, good
• 1:18:05
  idea. And then let's send out a newsletter with a
• 1:18:09
  sad puppy. And people go, oh, yeah, that's right, sad
• 1:18:12
  puppy. Yeah, I got to support those guys. And they
• 1:18:14
  do it. Sometimes on this show, we don't even read
• 1:18:16
  donations. Let's do it right now. we forget. Well, we
• 1:18:22
  have a couple of boosts that have been coming in.
• 1:18:24
  Let's see. Oh, there's Martin Lindeskog. Wow, thank you. 11,235
• 1:18:29
  sats coming in from the true fans. Happy Midsummer. Adam,
• 1:18:34
  have you had matcha sharing? What is that? Virgin Herring
• 1:18:42
  That's Norwegian. That's not Dutch. I think it's Norwegian. Here's
• 1:18:46
  a Fibonacci sequence. Okay, you just whipsawed me. 0, 1,
• 1:18:50
  1, 2, 3, 5. Boostergram. Oh, okay. With 11,235. Oh,
• 1:18:55
  it's a Fibonacci boost. Okay, gotcha. Thank you. Virgin herring?
• 1:19:02
  Do they taste different once they've been around the block?
• 1:19:06
  I think there's something... In Holland, we have... Bye. The
• 1:19:12
  Dutch New Which means it's the first herring of the
• 1:19:15
  season. It's really good. And we eat that. They basically,
• 1:19:21
  they cure it in salt. So for all intents and
• 1:19:26
  purposes, it's raw. But it's been heated up a bit
• 1:19:32
  in salt, and you eat it with onions, and you
• 1:19:33
  hold it by the tail, and just... *laughs* This sounds
• 1:19:39
  so good. Gross, man. No, knock it till you tried
• 1:19:41
  it, man. I don't like anything. 79, 22 from a
• 1:19:45
  salty crayon. Howdy, Dave and Adam was going back to
• 1:19:47
  episode 68 to 75. Who does that? - A lot
• 1:19:51
  of good server juice for new people just from 2022
• 1:19:55
  timeframe about podcasting 2.0 and V4V. Highly recommended people go
• 1:19:59
  back
• 1:20:00
  these early discussions. All right. There you go. There's your
• 1:20:02
  recommendation. There's Dreb Scott with 10,000 sats. Go podcasting. uh
• 1:20:07
  here's another one that came in from this is lyceum
• 1:20:11
  again oh okay 1701 Doing a test boost program before
• 1:20:15
  the live stream. Fascinating how open the podcasting industry is,
• 1:20:19
  including the friendly company. I've now been podcasting for 20
• 1:20:22
  years on my first podcast, Ego Netcast, starting on Prodo's
• 1:20:28
  Solid Vox Philosophical Podcast Network. then blog talk radio and
• 1:20:34
  after that libsyn for many years and then moving to
• 1:20:37
  captivate and now for a short period fountain. The next
• 1:20:40
  home for my podcast will be Beamley. formerly known as
• 1:20:44
  podcastpage.io, Spaceship 1701 Satoshis. Okay, beam. Uh, Beamley? Just, I
• 1:20:54
  just gave them a pod ping token, so they should
• 1:20:56
  be starting pod pings. soon. Nice. Let's see, and... And
• 1:21:04
  we have a fountain user 940187348888328. Got to change your
• 1:21:11
  username. With 2,693 sats from fountain. Thank you very much.
• 1:21:16
  And then a couple of, these will probably show up
• 1:21:18
  on your list. Eric BP. with a couple of test
• 1:21:22
  boosts, which is appreciated. All right. We got some PayPal.
• 1:21:29
  We got Lauren Ball, $24.20. Very nice. Thank you. Appreciate
• 1:21:33
  you. Thank you. Mitchell Downey. That's probably what his mom
• 1:21:37
  calls him. $10? Thank you. When she's mad at him.
• 1:21:40
  Mitchell Downey! Mitchell Robert Downey or whatever his middle name
• 1:21:48
  is. I can't think of a good middle name for
• 1:21:51
  Mitch. Robert, that sounds like he's probably it. Christopher Harabaric,
• 1:21:55
  $10. Thank you, Christopher. Uhhhh... Let's see. We got another
• 1:22:01
  one here. He said, Damon Kassajak, $15. Thank you. Terry
• 1:22:05
  Keller, five bucks. Christopher Cowan, $5. Silicon Florist, $10. Thank
• 1:22:14
  you. Appreciate that. Very appreciated, all of you. These small
• 1:22:17
  numbers add up. That's one server right there. One crawler.
• 1:22:22
  Absolutely. We got Derek J. Visker. The best name in
• 1:22:27
  podcasting, $21. Paul Saltzman, $22.22, like a rock, every single
• 1:22:34
  month. Thank you. Jeremy Gertz, $5. Michael Hall, $5. And
• 1:22:40
  50 cents. Jean Liverman, $5. Thank you, Jean. And also,
• 1:22:45
  Jean, thank you for running your... monitor. He runs, him
• 1:22:50
  and Archie both run uptime monitors for the index. Oh,
• 1:22:53
  very helpful. Very helpful. Todd Cochran? May he rest in
• 1:22:58
  peace. $30. Thank you, Todd. boosting from heaven everybody yeah
• 1:23:04
  like that If he can boost all the way from
• 1:23:08
  heaven, what's your excuse? Thank you. What's your excuse? Exactly.
• 1:23:16
  Uh, Timothy Voice? Ten dollars? So, look at what we
• 1:23:20
  got. Look at this. Buzzsprout, $1,000. Baller, shot caller, 20-inch
• 1:23:26
  blades on the Impala. Keeping it alive. Thank you so
• 1:23:30
  much, boys and girls from Buzzsprout. I truly appreciate that.
• 1:23:34
  That support is just... Phenomenal. So we got, oh. That's
• 1:23:40
  it. We got a comic strip blogger. Yes. 24,000. We
• 1:23:44
  missed him last week. He's like, what happened? What happened?
• 1:23:48
  I told you. I told you he would be the
• 1:23:50
  most mad. He was like the string cut off. That
• 1:23:56
  was the end of the show, bro. We just ended.
• 1:23:58
  Sorry. I'm going to be on his AI Arch Wizard
• 1:24:01
  podcast Sunday night. Ah, nice. Yeah, I'm glad you're doing
• 1:24:05
  that. I really want to do it. It's been a
• 1:24:08
  little crazy. I'm going to set it up. I got
• 1:24:11
  to do it. I got to do it. I got
• 1:24:13
  to put it on my list. Let's see, we got
• 1:24:17
  Comstreet Bugger, 24,000 sass through fountain. He says. Howdy Dave
• 1:24:21
  and Adam. Please subscribe to YouTube channel. Wait, YouTube? This
• 1:24:27
  not podcasting? No. I'm calling a yellow card on that.
• 1:24:32
  Howdy Dave and Adam. Please subscribe to YouTube channel, youtube.com
• 1:24:36
  slash... At symbol, Roger Nash. where my pal from Wales,
• 1:24:41
  Roger Nash, who is Alki, is reviewing... Alki? Alki? Is
• 1:24:47
  reviewing and talking about beer and stuff. Recently, he added
• 1:24:53
  AI-generated timestamps, so topic jumping easier. Yo, CSB, AI Arch
• 1:24:59
  Wizard. All right, CSB. Thank you. Topic jumping through an
• 1:25:02
  Alki podcast. Sounds exciting. That's it. That's our guys. That's
• 1:25:08
  it. All right. Well, look at that. With one minute
• 1:25:10
  and 30 seconds to spare. Oh, well, we got plenty
• 1:25:14
  of time for another topic. No, I think we're good.
• 1:25:17
  I think we've covered a lot. What are you doing
• 1:25:19
  this weekend, brother? You're going to be hanging out? My
• 1:25:23
  wife is in Canada. - Dave's house! - Come on
• 1:25:27
  over. Now she's in Prince Edward Island for a conference.
• 1:25:33
  - Nice. Oh, excellent. So you gotta cook, are you
• 1:25:36
  gonna actually cook or you're getting pizza? Pizza is the
• 1:25:40
  most likely outcome of those choices. We have one Chinese
• 1:25:44
  restaurant in Fredericksburg called Panda. It's not Panda Express, but...
• 1:25:49
  It's called, I love going there. Is it good or
• 1:25:52
  is it like cheap? Oh, it's so good. Oh, no.
• 1:25:56
  It's phenomenal. Yeah, and they're all OG Chinese who have
• 1:26:02
  lived in Fredericksburg for 25... The restaurant's been here for
• 1:26:05
  20 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. So is it like a
• 1:26:11
  full-on Szechuan style? Everything. Oh, yeah. And the whole interior,
• 1:26:15
  everything. It's crazy. and he doesn't like chinese sushi well
• 1:26:21
  that's japanese i'm sorry you know this oh yeah please
• 1:26:24
  don't don't get your people confused it's asian come on
• 1:26:30
  hey why do they even have driver's licenses that say
• 1:26:33
  brown hair brown eyes and brown hair come on let's
• 1:26:36
  uh let's be honest I am very racist. All right,
• 1:26:41
  brother. Well, you have yourself a good one. Get yourself
• 1:26:44
  a pizza. Boardroom, thank you very much for being here
• 1:26:46
  as always. Thank you for being a part of this
• 1:26:48
  wonderful project. And we look forward to doing it all
• 1:26:52
  again on Friday next week where we tell you everything
• 1:26:55
  that's going on in podcasting and whatever else is on
• 1:26:57
  our mind. listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more
• 1:27:21
  information. Go podcasting! my nuts.