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Football at Four: How Will Eagles New Offensive Scheme Impact Hurts? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Flyers are done. The Sixers are done, and that
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: means the Eagles get back to the center stage. Right,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: those two teams have already moved on. We're ready for
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the next Eagles season, and I want to kind of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: get into that with Jeff. You know, the one thing
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: that the Eagles have been able to do is be consistent.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: They always have a winner. You know, we look at
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: what has happened with this Sixers team, right, And that's
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: where the NFL is different, Jeff. They have a salary cap,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: but you can kick money down the road. You got
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: dummy years. It's just a way different way that you
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: can manage your team to improve in the NFL. Right,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the NFL allows you to stink one year and then
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: fix it and figure out. You're never like running it back, right,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You're never like stuck. The Sixers are stuck because of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the rules. NFL. The rules do not really make you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: run it back.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The biggest rule that favors the NFL and really
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: the Eagles is the ability to spread honey out differently
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and be creative with the salary cap. It's the ability
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to not actually have to function with a hard cap
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: because of how you can structure contracts. I mean, the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: cap is the cap. It's quote unquote a hard cap.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: But because you can have that flexibility and maneuverability and
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: push money all around, which you can't do in the NBA,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: you can get out of things a lot quicker, to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: your point, So that's what's tough. Does the NBA not
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: have the amnesty Who's the one that has the amnesty
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: rule where you can man that would be the NBA
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: should really think about that. I think that that would
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: be fascinating. And you do almost wonder if the Sixers
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: had it, who would they use it on?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, exactly that that's a good question. I've often
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: because I know the Flyers used it on bris Golloff.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't I really haven't heard anybody
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: else use the rule. Is it even still in place
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: that you can add this? I know you couldn't hockey
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: because the Flyers did and this deepf but I don't know.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I really haven't heard anything about that role either anybody
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: else using it before, after or since, So I don't
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: know if they still use it or Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: It's a trickier when people forget It's like you still
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: have to pay the money, you just don't have it
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: against the books. So a lot of people don't want
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to pay money for nothing. But to your point, yeah,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I mean in the NBA, I think there would be
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: a situation where you'd be fine to pay a lot
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: of money to have a contract off the books. You'd
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: pay to have it off the books, basically.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeff Boscher's here, Jalen Hurts and Sean Mannion, Let's
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about where this relationship could be
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: starting here as these mini camps get where it need
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: to start in a couple of weeks. Here, what is
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the early indication we get from Jalen Hurts Sean Mannion
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and that relationship, you know, is is there some you
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: know thoughts that Jalen is open and ready and excited
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: about these changes.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: So I knew you're gonna ask this, and I want
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: to I want to verbalize my answer very carefully because
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be First of all, I never
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: questioned anybody's reporting. You know, if it's not my reporting,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: fine somebody else reporting. But the reality is that phase
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: one of the off season program just recently began I
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: think last month, right and.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Before that, early early this month.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, early this month before
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: law may right, and before that, you weren't even allowed
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to have contact between a coach and a player. So
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: the idea that there, I think, like, like I said,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it's being reported that they're having a good relationship and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: they're about that. That's wonderful.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: They essentially that hurt Football, Essentially that Hurts is very
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: excited about. I guess the insinuation Jeff is he likes
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the way the offense is being sold to him, and
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't buying what everybody else was selling in
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the past.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I can I can
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: understand him buying it because it's a quarterback friendly offense,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: but remember, hey, to keep doing this like Kellen Moore
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: came here, spread offense motion, like all these really exciting
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: concepts that were biable because he had produced the number
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: one he had produced two number one offenses as a
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: coordinator before. I'm pretty sure.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So right, real quick, for the listeners out there that
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: are like, what do you guys talk about Jeremy Fowler
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: on Sports Center quote, I'm hearing the two have hit
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it off and Jalen Hurts likes how Sean Manion structures
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the offense, how he talks about how they're going to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: attack things, because it's going to look different. It's going
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: to be more under center for Hurts, more play action
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: that he's had done in the past. So our sources
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: have told us that he's at times been reluctant to
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: some of those changes, but right as he right now,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: he's as open as he's ever been. So it almost
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: sounds like, see if you agree that Manion has sold
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: him on the concepts of why they do things or
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the why he wants to do things the way that
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: he's going to do them.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like this is the time of
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the year where a lot is said through the media
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: to create so and I you know, not just for players,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: but for coaches, for GMS.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Well, who says that Jalen's team or the Eagles team.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a great question, you know, and I'm
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: not going to answer for what I don't know. So
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: the overriding point is they haven't played any they haven't
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: practiced football like real football up until recently. So it's
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: great to love it. And I imagine that there's lots
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: of love and I'm really listen, it's better than hearing
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: through somebody's camp that you can't stand. But we never
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: heard that before about not liking somebody's offense. So I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: take it all with the greatest salt until you get
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: on the football field and really work through it and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: see it. It's just people talking through the media.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: All right. So let's look at a couple of things
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: that reportedly that you know, the more under center for Hurts.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: What is your take on how that might look for Hurts.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So last year they started going under center more so
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: than usual. And I'm not talking about like you know,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: obviously push push or goal line. They started going under
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: center between the twenties more than usual. I think is
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: it a Giants game or the Minnesota game that they
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: started doing more of it. They started putting an extra
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: offensive lineman on the football field too, in a jumbo,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and they started to see some various degrees of success,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: both more so in the passing game under center than
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: the run game. Because and the one thing I noticed
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: was that when Jalen went under center and faked a
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: handoff before throwing, he did not execute a full one
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: to eighty turn with his back to the field. Okay,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: what he did was sort of a drop back sort
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: of fake handoff and then like he was under center,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: drop back with his body still facing defense, fake a
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: handoff and then a quick throw. I'll be very interested
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to see. I mean, when you're gonna if you're gonna
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: have this more foundationally, you have to sell these runs.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: If you want to marry your run game to your
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: play action pass game, you've got to be able to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: turn around and fake like you're putting the ball in
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the belly of your running back and then turn back
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: around and make a throw. And a lot happens right
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: in those seconds, which involves a lot of post snap
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: processing along with pre snap processing. So that's really to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: your question. What I'm really looking forward to is seeing
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: is how it works. Because Jillen was that report was correct,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I've heard the same thing that he didn't prior to
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: this year or even coming to Philadelphia, really love under center,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: didn't love not seeing the field, you know. So they
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: were able to work around that at times last year
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: when they went under center without taking his eyes off
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the defense. But I don't think that this year's offense
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: that's gonna be the I think there's gonna have to
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: be situations where you turn around and fake that handoff.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: So with the other part of the offense is play action.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: You know, when you look at this personnel, sometimes you're like, oh,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: they got a good play action you know group the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: tight end Goddard obviously you just drafted Stours, uh, and
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: you've got DeVante Smith, You've got Lemon. Is play action
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: something that you think could be successful with this group?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean play action is play action could
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: be successful in any offense that you run, as long
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: as you know it as you're doing. You've got the
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: right not having the right people, I mean, it's just
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: it's a really effective rule in my opinion. Yeah.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously having a good run game helps with the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: play action.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Something that that's actually been proven to be false that
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: you don't need a good run game to have play action.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Their studies, there's data. People think that it makes sense,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: but it's not true. A good play action game, a
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: good downhill running game can set up your play action better.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But you can run play action a shotgun by the way, too.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be under center. But many coaches
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: will tell you that all the studies say that it's
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: not true that you need to run the ball well
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to have a good play action game.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, listen, I'm interested to see what this
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: offense kind of looks like. And we're gonna do some
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Eagles motion your mailback questions on Wednesday, we got a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: bunch here, but well wait, told Wednesday to kind of
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: get to them, because yeah, we got into a good conversation,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: you know, because.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Real quick, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I want to to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: to expand on that just a little bit. I didn't
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: mean to interrupt some people. Some people are gonna say
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: you're stupid. Of course, a good running game with help
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: play action. So when you when you fake the handoff
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to the running back, the linebackers' responsibilities are to play
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: that fake, whether they think it's a fake or not,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: because they can't afford to be guess wrong and then
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: leave the middle of the field wide open while they're
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: running around.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: So that's why, that's why there's no tangible evidence that
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: shows that are good like you have to average four
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: point five yards per carry because the defense has to
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: react the same way when you have the threat of
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: a run. Okay, and that's why there's no direct link
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: to having like have to average a certain amount of
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: yard for carry to having a good play action game.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Jeff Boucher Inside the Birds Philly Voice,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: she wrote an interesting article that we talked a little
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: bit about. I think with Andrew on Thursday. You talked
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: about the depth chart at quarterback. You're saying it doesn't
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: make sense. So how does that materialize over this offseason.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's going to materialize. I will
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: be and I'll come on your show and eat humble
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Pie if I have to. But if the season ends
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: right with Hurts as your starter, McKee as your backup,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Dalton as your number three, and Peyton as your number four,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I will be absolutely stunned. It just it doesn't make
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: sense for all the reasons I did. First of all,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Dalton's been in this league for fifteen years. Okay, most
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: people don't realize this, Mike. I think you know this,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: but most people don't. The backup quarterback does not get
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: many or sometimes any reps in practice.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: People are like, no, that's crazy. No, it's true, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: most backups don't get a lot of rep. You're preparing
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: your starters to play on Sunday, right. That's why even
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: some guys who are injured and are doubtful. Don't get
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of reps. You're playing the guys you
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: expect to play, So the backups and all across the board,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: except for some times offensive lineman don't get any reps.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So if you're already saying Tanner McKee's only going to
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: get a smattering of reps as the backup, you're telling
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: me fifteen year veteran Andy Dalton is gonna be cool
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: running a scout team. And why would you want Andy
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Dalton running the scout team. That's why you have Cole Payton.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: You want to develop him. You want some athleticism there.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: You want like when you face mobile quarterbacks at all.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Nothing about their pecking order makes sense right now. But
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: that's okay, because it doesn't have to make sense in May.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't make sense. It's right.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems that McKee would be the most likely
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: guy to be dealt anyway.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or if they just if nothing happens and they
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: hang on to McKee, like you remember, they had Joe
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Flacco and Gardner Minshew as backups, and they did Flaco
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: a solid and sent them to the Jets that year.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: By the deadline, like maybe somebody who needs a backup
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: would want Dalton and then you can have a normal
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: pecking order and not have carry four quarterbacks on your
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: fifty three.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that one will be something. Last one you guys
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: talked about it on the latest Inside the Birds podcast,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: which is the wide receiver room and the optionality they
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: kind of have there. We all assume aj Brown will
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: not be here, So how will the wide receiver unit
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: be a little different?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I just like it's I get excited talking about it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: First of all, as I've told you before.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Like you don't want them to run it back at
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: wide receiver.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: It sounds like I was leading this parade for like
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: why have the Egles just not had a slot receiver
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: for the last three year? Why have they been okay
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: not having definitely that one. Yeah, and now we know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like mkayle Lemon can can certainly line up on the
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: outside in a Z. But I mean, if you're gonna
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: be an eleven personnel with three receivers out there, yeah,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have Davonte Smith of the Z. You're gonna
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: have Wix probably as your ex or uh, you might
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: have like a tight end two like Stours as an X.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: They used to do that with zach Ertz. But you're
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: gonna have Lemon in there in the slot and that's
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: really exciting. But then you know, and by the way,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Marquis Brown could play with that speed can play some X.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: You don't want him there all the time getting jammed,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: but he can play it. So you just have so
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: much more optionality when you throw these tight ends and
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: receivers together for your eleven personnel, your twelve personnel. You
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: can play tight ends like receivers. You can play some
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: receivers like tight ends like they did with Johnny Wilson,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and we'll see if he's healthy and make the team.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And then if you want to go big in the
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: red zone, you can throw Wicks and Johnny Wilson out there,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: or Wicks and Smith or Kyle Stower sorry, Eli Stowers,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and and just have a wonderful different array of combination.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And said, honestly, that just haven't had that many combinations
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you can throw out there. Because their number three receiver
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: has been John Dotson. What he's caught like an average
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: of sixteen balls a year in the last two year.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I definitely think there you as you guys,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: talk about more optionality. I too have been like you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I think you know, having just those two guys in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the same offense for as many years, like it did
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: have a run it back field to it, Like teams
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: have kind of caught on to some of the things,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the tendencies that you have.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna start a new offensive scheme,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: a new play caller, then you got to give this
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: guy and your offense the type of weapons it needs
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: to flourish. And if you're gonna do a lot of
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: play action, you're gonna run, you're gonna throw, You're gonna
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: try to exploit the middle of the field where you
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: need players who can function over the middle of the field,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: but also not only be one trick ponies, like you
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: know Greg Kalkatra that he played plenty last year, but
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: he had a block. He was bad at it, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: he really didn't catch a lot of passes because it
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: just didn't happen within the flow of the offense in
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: a block.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: He was bad at it. Amen. Jeff Boucher from the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Inside the Birds podcast Inside the Birds dot Com. Uh
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: so we will hold these obviously. The mail bag questions
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: off for Wednesday show We have a bunch of them here,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and if you guys have questions for our off season
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: mail bags, you can send them in six nine four
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: oh three oh nine seven three at Mike Gill Show,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: on Twitter x anywhere that you guys can find us,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and we have a we got a bunch of in
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: here throughout the off season. We always are soliciting for
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: off season mail bag questions, so Wednesday will do that,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and of course football for all off season long. We
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: do have a game, by the way, it is Giants
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Cowboys Week number one, Sunday Night Football. They're announcing one
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: game each day until the uh I think it's one
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: game each day, maybe a couple more, I don't know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: up until Thursday when the whole schedule is released. All right, man,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: have a good weekend or a good week.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Good chat you too, talk to you later.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: All right, there's Jeff Mosher everybody Football at four powered
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: by the Inside the Birds podcast, and of course each
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: day at four o'clock we give you Football at four
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: all through the off season through the NFL season,