Latest / Pod Save America / “High on Bernie.”

Transcript

“High on Bernie.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, Lovett and I talk to Bernie Sanders
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: about his endorsement of Joe Biden and what a progressive
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: response to this economic crisis would look like. Before that,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about the protests against Trump's public health guidelines
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that are being organized by Trump supporters, the latest debate
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: over testing, a potential deal in Congress on a new
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: relief package, and China's role in the 2020 campaign. But first, Lovett,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: how was the show this weekend?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: We had a great Lovett or Leave It Back in
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: the Closet episode. Megan Rapinoe, was there. She was.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Big get.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Big get.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: She was great. It was great to talk to her.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: We played a game about sports. And then we had Dr.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Alima Tu, who's a psychologist, and it was a really
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: helpful conversation about how it feels to be in quarantine
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: and what helps. So I really recommend that. Plus, we
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: talked to listeners in Portland in the monologue, and we
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: heard from a bunch of teachers about what it's like
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: to teach under quarantine.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: It was a great episode.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to listen to that psychologist. I think
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I could use that.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to I think everybody should just listen
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: to his part.
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: Pause.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Tell him how they're feeling, you know, and then unpause.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: We have one more favor to ask of all of you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: So now that Congress is almost done with this interim
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: relief bill and is about to start negotiating the next
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: big coronavirus response bill, that may be the last chance
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: we have to expand this. vote by mail, and early
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: voting before November, which means we have to put the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: pressure on right now, as in this week. So we
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: are asking as many people as possible to go to votesaveamerica.com
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: slash call, which will automatically connect you directly to your
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: representatives in Congress. We even wrote out a script so
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you know exactly what to say. Please call this week.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if your representative is a Democrat or
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a Republican. Both parties need to understand how important this is.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: So again... Go to votesaveamerica.com slash call. All right, let's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: get to the news. So there was a piece last
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: week in the New York Times by two very prominent
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: epidemiologists who estimated that if the White House had issued
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: social distancing guidelines just two weeks earlier, so on March
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: 2nd instead of when they did on March 16th, it
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: could have prevented 90% of the U.S. deaths from COVID-19. 90%.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It's about 54,000 American lives. That's how effective social distancing is.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And I bring this up because on Friday, the president
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: of the United States chose to encourage Trump supporters who
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: are now on the streets protesting those very same social
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: distancing guidelines by tweeting, quote, liberate Michigan, liberate Minnesota, and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: liberate Virginia from and save your great Second Amendment. Had
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to throw that in too. Stephen Moore, who was one
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of the president's economic advisors, actually said, quote, I call
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: these people the modern day Rosa Parks. They're protesting against
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: injustice and a loss of liberties. So Tommy, these protests
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: have ranged from like 100 people here in Orange County
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to a few thousand in Washington state. What do we
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: know about who's out there protesting and who's organizing these protests?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Modern day Rosa Parks. So I'm sure there are some
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: people out there at these protests who are genuinely frustrated
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: with the lockdowns. I don't think people are suggesting that
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: they were like tricked into being there or paid to
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: be there. But what is very clear is that there's
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: a bunch of right wing organizations that are manufacturing these
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: events or helping promote and organize these events. And they're
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: doing so because they know that even little protests will
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: get covered by the press ad nauseum. And just like
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: with the Tea Party back in 2009, Fox News is
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: right there waiting to supercharge the coverage and drive attendance
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: and make this sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. And so
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: it's early, but here are some of the ways these
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: are being manufactured. So the Washington Post reported on how
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Facebook groups popped up with identical names.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: There's Wisconsinites against excessive quarantine, Pennsylvanians against excessive quarantine, Ohioans,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: New Yorkers. If you hear those names all be identical
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: and you don't believe it's a coincidence, you are right,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: because they were all created by three brothers who are
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: far right wing gun activists and like provocateurs. And because
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: so many MAGA people are grifters, what a surprise that
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: these anti-quarantine Facebook pages recommend that you pay to join
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: some gun rights group that they are founders of. In Michigan,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: the protests were organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition, which
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: also goes by the name Michigan Trump Republicans. And The
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: directors of that group are influential Republican operatives. They're connected
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: to Trump. They're in his cabinet. They have big pots
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: of money. They're backed by billionaires. And they're literally sharing
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: their verbatim playbook with others across the country. And in Michigan,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: it's very clearly designed to target the governor, Gretchen Whitmer.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: They posted an op-ed on their Facebook page bragging about
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: how they were killing her VP chances. But they've also
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: aligned with a bunch of really scary extremists. The Proud
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Boys were there in Michigan. In Austin, Texas, Alex Jones
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: was out there. And so, look, the goal is to
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: project an image that these are average people who are
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: just fed up with the government and they want to
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: get back to work. The reality is that billionaires, business
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: groups who want to tell those people that they have
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: to go back to work are helping promote these events.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: And what's frustrating about it is we know from polling
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that the vast majority of people in this country are
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: worried that social distancing will end too soon. I think
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: it's like two-thirds in the latest Pew poll. But You know,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: what happens is just like in the Tea Party, the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Koch brothers then organized these rallies. They gain momentum. They
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: trick the press into covering them. And it becomes a
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: self-fulfilling thing where pretty soon you will see, I think,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: or I worry, larger and larger of numbers of people
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: at these protests putting themselves at risk and pushing for
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: policies that put all of us at risk.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: One piece of color from the Washington Post story about
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the brothers who run the gun groups. These gun groups
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: that they run are so extreme that they try to
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: discredit the National Rifle Association, the NRA, for being too
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: compromising on gun safety. That's the kind of people we're
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: talking about here. The NRA has gotten soft, John. I mean, look,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I'll believe these protests are real when those three brothers
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: are out there on the streets themselves, and when Rush Limbaugh,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, You know, Jean Perrault is sipping Chardonnay on
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the streets without a mask on. Then I'll believe the
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: sincerity behind these protest movements. But until then, this is
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: classic AstroTurf. Well, and to your point about sincerity. So
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: there was a protest in New Hampshire. The governor of
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire is Chris Sununu. He's a Republican. Ethan DeWitt,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: who's a statehouse reporter at the Concord Monitor, decided to
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: talk to a bunch of the protesters. Not one of them,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: not one of them blamed Republican Governor Chris Sununu, even
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: though it is his order to stay home. and they
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: are specifically targeting Democratic governors because they are right-wing Trump supporters,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: as you said, and not necessarily just a bunch of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: upset Americans. In Michigan, they blocked an ambulance en route
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. In Denver, protesters yelled at two nurses,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: if you want communism, go back to China, and said,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: you go to work, why can't I go to work?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: And a passerby said, well, they're going to work because
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: they're saving people's lives. And the protesters said, Oh, bullshit.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It's so perfect. Those are the people we're dealing with. Lovett,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: what did you think about this? And I also want
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to talk about Trump too and get your thoughts on this.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Why is Trump encouraging people to protest the guidelines that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: his own government has issued?
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: So what do I think of people being prodded by
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: right-wing interest groups into risking their own safety to oppose
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: public health measures designed to save millions of lives in
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: the middle of an emergency and pandemic that struck every
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: corner of the country, goaded on by a president more
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: interested in a chaotic, hard to follow story than one
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: that actually discusses his culpability in it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Thumbs down.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: I don't like it. I'm not a fan of it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: It's obviously very sad. You know, these people deserve to
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: be held to account for being out there, right? Like
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: the fact that they are dupes, that a lot of
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: them are simply dupes of an organization that doesn't have
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: their interests at heart, that has kind of fooled them
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: over a very long time, doesn't mitigate their culpability for
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: being out there. But at the same time, you know,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: what we are seeing is what happens when the dog
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: catches the car. Rush Limbaugh has been doing this for decades.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Fox News has now been doing this for decades. Donald
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Trump is a culmination of that logic. as are many
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: right-wing propaganda outlets on Facebook and just online generally, backed
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: by billionaires, never made a profit, never could make a profit.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: They're all predicated on the idea that the main institutions,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: the government, the mainstream press that does the vast majority
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: of genuine reporting in this country, the functioning bureaucracy, whether
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: it's the CDC or Health and Human Services or Veterans
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Affairs or the Pentagon or what have you, that these
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: organizations are Going to be strong and are going to
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: do their job and are going to exist no matter
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: how much shit we throw at them from the sidelines.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: And we can get our people all riled up and
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: we get them angry and we get them to vote.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: for Republicans and we can get them to be spiteful
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: and we can get them to buy gold or supplements
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: or whatever the shit is that they push on their shows,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: on their networks. But now we're in a situation where
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: they have the White House. And now one of the
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: leading figures in of right-wing propaganda is doing it from
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: the briefing room every day, doing it from his phone
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: every single day. And it's incredibly dangerous. And we are
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: sort of seeing it everywhere. You know, millions of people,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: you know, there was another story about a person whose
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: family was pleading with him to don't go on this cruise.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: It's not safe. It's not safe.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: But this person had been listening to Fox News and
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: listening to the president. I mean, this is what is
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: playing out. There are millions of Americans who have been
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: duped and they are playing the kind of useful idiots
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: to Trump and Trump's allies for their own political and
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: financial purpose.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Counterpoint, why is no one marching in favor of social distancing?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Why don't you libs get off your asses and hit
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the streets?
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Well, Tommy, there was a really incredible protest in Israel
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: against corruption by Netanyahu.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I'll probably hear about it on Pod Save the World.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But it was a socially distant protest.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I saw that.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: They were measured out six feet apart. It's an incredibly
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: moving image to see these people trying to have their
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: voices heard while following the rules.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: How dare you suggest I didn't see all the details
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of an anti-Netanyahu protest.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Come on.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: It's right. Ben Rhodes was there.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: A COVID story meets a Netanyahu story. It is made
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: for Pod Save the World.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I will say, you know, I saw, you know, a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: New York Times story. I think Peter Baker tweeted this. Like,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: you know, these, like by Trump encouraging these protests, he
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: could sort of, fuel the kind of working class populist
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: rage that helped him in 2016. I actually think he
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: is he has he's in a tricky position politically, trickier
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: than we might think, because Trump obviously is tweeting this
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: shit because he wants the protesters to know that he's
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: on their side.
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And clearly they do in a very and some of
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: them in a very scary way. You know, Ben Collins
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: at NBC is said that Trump's tweets led right-wing extremists
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: to speculate whether the president was advocating for armed conflict.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Some of them were tweeting after that. So it's very scary.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: But at the same time that he wants them to
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: know he's on their side, he also, the most important
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: thing for Trump is to win re-election. And he sees
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the same numbers that we do. Tommy, you briefly mentioned this,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: but the latest Navigator poll has just 10% of Americans
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: say we should relax social distancing, and that's even reflected
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: among Trump's base. 18% of Republicans, 17% of 2016 Trump voters,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and 14% of Fox News viewers want to ease social
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: distancing right now. There was a Yahoo! poll out this morning.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Only 22% of Americans support the protesters, and Republicans opposed
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the protests 47-36. Now, propaganda works, if Trump suddenly decided
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to be 100% on the side of the protesters, and
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Fox News ramps this up every single day, like they
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: usually do, you could start to see those numbers change.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: But that still gets you, you know, 35, 40% of
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Trump's base. And I think Trump knows that the vast
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: majority of Americans and even a lot of his voters
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: appreciate and believe in the social distancing guidelines. So he
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: needs to play both sides here.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the Michigan part was instructive. Like, There
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: was some reporting that maybe some of the people protesting
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: felt that some of the most recent round of Gretchen
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Whitmer's restrictions on being able to purchase like lawn care
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: items and things like that were a bridge too far.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And that's what finally upset people. But I mean, I
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: think that's probably specious and silly. The reality, I think
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the Democrats need to explain to folks is a lot
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: of these protests are backed and organized by your bosses
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: who want you to go back to work, to be
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: forced to go back to work. And they want liability
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: protection in case you get sick. And we need to
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: say as Democrats, we hear you. We feel your pain.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: That's why the government needs to take more steps to
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: protect you and make sure that you're able to feed
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: your family and have health care and can get through
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: this time without putting yourself at risk.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I'll say one other thing about this, too, which is,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you talked about the failure to take it
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: seriously enough early enough and how much death might have
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: been prevented.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: You know, and many.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Have pointed out, right, that there was a period of
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: time where It wasn't just Trump who wasn't pushing us
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: hard enough. As a nation, it took us a beat
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to really understand the nature of what we were facing.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Part of the reason it took us a moment to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: figure out what we were facing is that the person
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: best suited to help the country understand what it was
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: about to go through with the most intelligence, the most
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: access to information, the best scientists in the world, all
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: of whom were saying, this is an emergency and it's coming,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: wasn't doing his job because he was more worried about
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: the stock market than he was the American people. But
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: even beyond that, we're now well over 30,000 deaths. We
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: had more than 4,000 people die in one day last week.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Millions of Americans are out of work. The whole country
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: is basically at home, not sure how it's.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Going to end.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Imagine how different it would look if there was a
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: president saying something like, thank you. Thank you for what
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: you're doing to protect your country. I know it's hard.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: A lot of people are working hard to get this
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: to be over. Our doctors or nurses, thank you for
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: supporting them.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful to you. My thoughts go out.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And you know who's saying that, Lovett? Gavin Newsom is
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: saying that. Mike DeWine, Republican, is saying that. Larry Hogan,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Governor of Maryland, is saying that. Democratic and Republican leaders
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: all across the country are saying that very same thing.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: We don't have a president who will say that as well.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do have concerns that You know, as
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: much as these protests are sort of fueled by Trump
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of right wing groups, there is going
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to come a point where, you know, the economic pain
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: of these shutdowns is so great that a lot of people,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: particularly people who live in states where there haven't been
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: significant outbreaks, are going to look around their community and
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: they're going to see a lot of people out of
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: work and they're not going to see many cases in
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: their state or in their community. And they're going to say,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: why the hell can't we go back to work? Like,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I get that. But play this out a few months.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Like in May and June, a lot of these governors
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of both parties are going to start to lift a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: lot of these social distancing, at least some of the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: toughest social distancing guidelines. People are going to start going
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: back to work. They're going to be able to start
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: leaving their homes.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: Safely, hopefully.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Once that happens, the biggest barrier is to the economy
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: getting back to normal is going to be the fear
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: people have that because we still don't have a vaccine,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: it's not safe to go to a restaurant. It's not
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: safe to go to a stadium. So then what's Trump
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: going to do? Then what are these right wing groups
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: going to protest? Like, I just don't know. I understand
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: why this is a problem right now. But in two, three,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: four months, I'm not sure where this goes. What do
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you guys think?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: John, are you suggesting that Donald Trump is taking a
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: short-term view of this big problem?
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, also the economic pain is going to
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: be felt differently across different states, right? There's been states
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: that expanded access to healthcare under Obamacare. It's probably a
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: little bit easier on those citizens. There's been a lot
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: of reporting lately about how Florida's unemployment insurance system was
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: built to be incredibly hard to use. So there are
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: people who are going to be punished by bureaucracy that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: was put in place, usually by Republican government's who don't
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: want social services to go to the poor. So you're right,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it's going to be felt differently. There's going to be
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: pain points differently. I worry about phase one of Trump's plan,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: including opening up sports stadiums. A lot of this just
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: seems incredibly unrealistic to me. And you're right that in
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: three months, the frustration is going to be far greater
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: than it is right now. And I worry about what
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: his angry Saturday morning tweets will look like at that point.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I also think because because he has been so focused
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: on the short term and there is no kind of
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: national voice of, you know, calm of reasonableness of fortitude that,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: that there's actually very little understanding. I think of just
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: how much of a loss victory is going to feel like,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: like just how closed and open economy feels like in
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: any other period. If like, if we get back to
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: the point where like 75% of the economy is running,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: That's an incredible achievement, maybe impossible until there's a vaccine
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: or vast more testing. That's a massive recession. That's a massive,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: massive downturn with millions of people immiserated, forced into economic dislocation,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: having to move, having to move in with their families,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: having to desperately seek relief somewhere from the government on
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: an ongoing basis. So because there's no one setting expectations
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: or nobody in a position to set expectations, there is
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: so little preparation for the millions of people who I
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: agree with you, John, are going to start bristling against
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: the walls of this stay at home order. And then
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: we'll come out to discover that things are not what
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: they were.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: So we've talked about this before, but the only way
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: to make it safe or safer for people to leave
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: their homes and go back to work is with a
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: national strategy for fast, easily accessible testing and contact tracing.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: We still don't have that. Democratic and multiple Republican governors
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: keep saying that they don't have enough supplies or testing kits.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Trump said that governors have enough testing capacity to that
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: they need to, quote, step up and get the job done.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And he accused them of complaining, which led to this
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: response last week from Andrew Cuomo.
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: The president doesn't want to help on testing. He said
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: 11 times. I said the one issue we need help
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: with is testing. He said 11 times. I don't want
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: to get involved in testing. It's too complicated.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: It's too hard.
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: I know it's too complicated and it's too hard. That's
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: why we need you to help. I can't do an
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: international supply chain. He wants to say, well, I did enough. Yeah,
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: none of us have done enough. We haven't, because it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: not over. So yes, thank you for the Javits, thank
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: you for the US Navy ship Comfort, but it's not over.
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: We have a lot more to do, and no one
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: can take the posture, well, just say thank you for
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: what I've done And I'm now out. I'm not doing
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: anything else. I've done my part. What if I said
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: to the people of my state, OK, I'm done. By
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: the way, I saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: flattened the curve. I created more hospital beds than anyone
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: ever imagined. I coordinated the entire state. I'm done. I'm done.
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: I'm going home.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: I'm going to go see my mother. I'm going to
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: spend time with my kids and I'm going to go
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: out fishing in Connecticut because their marinas are open.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: I'm done.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: What if I said that?
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: That's what he's saying.
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: I'm done.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: So during Sunday night's briefing.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I was going to do a Cuomo impression.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, we'll do some fucking deadlifts.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, wrong Cuomo.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: Wrong Cuomo, sorry.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: It'll be good. So during Sunday night's briefing, Trump did
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: say that he's quote, calling in the Defense Production Act
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to fix the testing shortages, and quote, you'll have so
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: many swabs you won't know what to do with them.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: He's such a dick about it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 8: I know.
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: What an image.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Fucking give you all the swabs you need, yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Throw in a handful of swabs in your face for
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: no reason.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So we'll see if he actually does this, but Tommy,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: why did it take him so long, and why does
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: he keep pushing this onto the states?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, the why is the hard part. I just
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: think he doesn't want to own the responsibility for anything
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: that is hard and anything that might be seen as
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: a failure. But just in case folks think that we're
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: being partisan here, Larry Hogan, Republican of Maryland, Mike DeWine,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Republican governor of Ohio, Charlie Baker, Massachusetts, they are all
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the ones who are saying the lack of testing is
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: probably the number one problem in America and the number
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: one thing holding up the entire economic response. So I'll
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: be honest, for the life of me, If I'm Donald
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Trump and I want nothing more than to reopen the economy,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: because I think that's the only way I'm going to
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: get reelected, then I would prioritize widespread, free, massive, pervasive testing.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: But that has been the CDC's single greatest failure since
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the very beginning. And for some reason, he still doesn't
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: want to fund in prioritizing. And I don't get it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Lovett, what do you think?
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't understand it either. It does feel like
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: It is just based in competence and the focus he
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: has is on the briefings. And he's saying, get it done,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: get it done every day to a bunch of people
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: who lack the aptitude to get it done. It is
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: also a really hard problem. You know, we need an
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: order of magnitude more tests. We need testing in the millions.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: We need places that can produce tests and process tests
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: in the millions. And so in the absence of leadership
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: from the White House directing all of this, you now
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: have the kind of the states that have a kind
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: of built-in capacity, places like Massachusetts, places like California, trying
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: to kind of figure out what they can do to
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: ramp up their own testing because they're not getting any
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: leadership from the White House. It is sort of hard
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: to explain because we're all operating under the assumption that
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump is doing whatever he can out of self-interest.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: But out of self-interest weeks ago, he should have been
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: activating the Defense Production Act to ramp up testing, and
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: he doesn't. So I don't think anybody can explain it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: It's unexplainable. Apparently, the Washington Post got a couple current
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: administration officials, Trump administration officials, to say that Trump's, the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: buck stops with the state's posture is largely designed to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: shield himself from blame should there be new outbreaks after
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: states reopen or for other problems.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And like, maybe he believes that. Maybe these aides who
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: went on background believe he believes that. But like, on
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: what planet is that going to happen?
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: You're the president. You own everything.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: You own everything.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Sorry.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: This is what I don't.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And like, look, I, there is a, it is tough
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: to figure this problem out. It's not just about more
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: money though. It is also like, and you can make
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: an argument that States can be doing this testing on
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: their own. But, you know, as we heard governor Cuomo say, like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it's about sort of coordination and organization here. Like he,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I think he said, like, I can't, I can't do
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a supply line, coordinate a supply line with China or
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: other countries on my own.
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Like, These states, and this is the same issue with
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: medical supplies, protective gear, ventilators, they're bidding against each other.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: They're competing against each other. There's parts and reagents and
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: all this shit for testing that are scattered across 50
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: states and 180 countries. And you need a national strategy
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: for that. You need national coordination for that, even if
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the states are the ones administering the tests. And for
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: some reason, they have just been so slow to get
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: it done. And you're right. Doesn't Donald Trump understand his
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: dream of opening the economy, having the economy surge back,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: opening America? That only gets realized if people feel safe,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: and they only feel safe if there is massive testing.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why someone can't tell him that. That's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: actually a political benefit for him if there's massive testing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So one fairly piece of good news is that Congress
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and the White House are close to a deal on
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: another emergency relief bill. This came about because the Paycheck
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Protection Program from the last bill has already run out
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: of money. That's the program that basically pays small businesses
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to not lay off their employees. Republicans in Congress only
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: wanted more money for that program and nothing else. Democrats
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: wanted more money for that program. Plus, they wanted to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: fix the program because it wasn't helping enough small businesses
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: in underserved areas. Plus, they wanted money for hospitals, testing,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: cities and states. Tommy, what looks like it's going to
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: be in the final deal as of right now? And
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: do you think it's a good one?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: So what it looks like right now was about a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: $ 450 billion package, which we should just pause for a
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: second and say, wow, that's a lot of cash. Barack
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Obama would have loved a second $ 450 billion infusion of
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: cash during the financial crisis, but a complaint for another day.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: So it sounds like $ 300 billion will go to the
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Paycheck Protection Program. That's the program that's been designed to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: give loans to small businesses for rent, payroll, utilities, necessities.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And the businesses that accept these loans and don't fire
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: their staffs for a certain amount of time or a
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: high percentage of their staffs, they can get those loans forgiven.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: There was a previous... PPP relief package that included about
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: $ 350 billion for that program, but it got used up
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: very quickly. So initially, the Republicans said, let's just pass
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: an extension with more money for PPP. And Pelosi and
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Chuck said, look, we're down with PPP. You're familiar with us,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: as they say, as the song goes.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: But we want some other stuff.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: So the bill now has $ 50 billion or $ 60 billion
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: for the Small Business Administration Disaster Relief Fund, where you
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: can get like 10 grand really fast if you're a
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: small business that was hurt by some sort of disaster.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: There's 75 billion for hospitals. There's 25 billion for testing.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Some progressives have pointed out that there's not hazard pay
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: for frontline workers or rent stabilization support or rent payment
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: freeze support. But it's a pretty, look, the Democrats moved
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: McConnell from 300 billion to 450 billion. So that's a
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: hell of a lot of progress.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Lovett, what do you think? Right before we started recording,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: AOC and Pramila Jayapal said that they will oppose this
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: bill partly because of what Tommy just said it leaves out.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: You know, the Republicans so far are saying that money
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: for cities and states is a red line. They will
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: not do it in this bill. People like Governor Cuomo,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of other governors, Republican governors as well, are
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: saying we don't get money soon. Like it's going to
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: hurt fire departments, schools, you know, all kinds of state
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and colleges, state and local funding. What do we do
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: here as Democrats? Because, yes, Democrats have leverage. But before
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: this deal was struck, you know, Democrats were also blamed
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: for a week for holding up money to keep people
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: on the job.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: because part of what makes this, I think, nuanced is
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: it's not just about what's in this bill, it's about
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: what's in the next bill, it's about what's the biggest
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: emergency now, but also what are the must-pass parts of
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: the next bill that will give Democrats more leverage on
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: the next and bigger package, right? I agree with all
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: the priorities that aren't in this bill that AOC and
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: others are advocating for. I don't I don't totally understand
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: how the negotiation will play out based on not having
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: things here versus what will be in the next one,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: because support for states seems like it is inevitable and necessary.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Some measure of hazard pay seems necessary. I don't know
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: how inevitable. I mean, there's a bunch of different pieces
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: about this. I guess I don't totally understand the negotiations
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: enough to understand whether it is worth pushing this through
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: now and making sure you fight for those things in
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: the next bill, or if this is a one-time opportunity
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: to get some of those pieces in.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: One dynamic that keeps playing out is Democrats are concerned
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that they'll lose their leverage because Mitch McConnell says something like,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: we don't need more money for anyone. We've done enough,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and maybe there won't be a phase four bill. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: then You know, Nancy Pelosi calls up Steve Mnookin and
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, yeah, I'm ready to play ball. And
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I think that dynamic is not because like Steve Mnookin
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: is a wonderful person. It's because Donald Trump wants to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: win reelection and Donald Trump needs a good economy to
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: win election or at least he needs a better economy
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: to win an election. And so Donald Trump continues to
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: want to play ball here on successive economic relief packages.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So I do think there will be a phase four bill.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I think the Trump administration has said this as well,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: even if Mitch McConnell might not want there to be.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: So I do think there is another chance for Democrats
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: to exert even more leverage than they did on this bill.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But look, it's a tough position for Democrats to be in, again,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: because not just for the politics, but because we are
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the more responsible party who wants to help people. Like,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the small this paycheck protection program really did
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: run out of money. We're seeing stories today that there's
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: a ton of very small businesses who didn't get their
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: didn't get their loan from this program. There were a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: lot of small businesses, small businesses. I put in quotation
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: marks because they're part of larger restaurant chains like Ruth's
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Chris and Shake Shack and others who got lots of
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: money from this program. And a lot of like mom
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: and pop small businesses and small businesses and minority communities
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: and in rural communities did not get anything from the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: first tranche. So like at some point you don't want
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to hold up funding forever when there is a possibility
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that a bunch of small businesses could get money to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: keep their employees from being laid off and a bunch
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of hospitals now could get a bunch of money that
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: they badly need to help save lives. So like how
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: long do you really hold that up?
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I totally understand the frustration from some of progressives that
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: there's not enough in the bill to get money directly
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: into the pockets of working people. There's also understandable frustration
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: with the implementation of the first round of PPP money,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: because in many instances, your ability to get a loan
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: had nothing to do with need. It had everything to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: do with how strong your pre-existing relationship with your bank was,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: because if you had all that paperwork sorted out, you
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: could get it quickly. And if you didn't, you couldn't,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: which seems like a dumb way to implement a program.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: But you know, look, Mitch McConnell is a terrible, cynical person,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: but his people would say like, this was about sequencing
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: and just getting this money out the door as fast
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: as possible. And I think it was smart and right
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to fight to add $ 150 billion more money into the package.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Like ultimately, I too am hopeful that we'll see another
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: tranche of money because Donald Trump, McConnell, and every Republican, frankly,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: have a vested political interest in the economy, not burning
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to the ground, which means they're going to need another
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: tranche of money. Now, these guys always find a way
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to help out business interests and donors and corporations before
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: real people. But yeah, like you, I'm not sure what
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: exactly Democrats are supposed to do here. Are we supposed
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to filibuster a bill, just fight for better priorities? It's
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: hard to understand how the negotiation is happening besides these
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: calls between Pelosi and Mnuchin.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I would say this, for the next bill, I think
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: that Democrats should pass a bill through the House that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: is the most ambitious progressive bill possible. That includes everything
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: they didn't get in this one, plus everything they believe,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: basically their vision of what it looks like to take
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: care of people during a pandemic. Rent stabilization, hazard pay
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: for frontline workers. Bernie Sanders had some great ideas. Elizabeth
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Warren has some great ideas. A whole bunch of people do.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Put it all in this bill for phase four, election protection.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Pass it through the House. And then say, all right,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: this is what it's going to take to fix the economy.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Like Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, how much of this do
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: you want? And then if they accept it, great. Then,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you know, we've helped the economy. We've helped a lot
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: of people. If they don't accept it, then you have
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: your difference for November. Then you have, this is what
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the Democratic plan is to fix the economy. This would
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: help workers. The Republicans refused it. Donald Trump refused it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: They want to just help their rich friends. So like
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: at the very least, The next time we get to
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a phase, instead of Pelosi calling up Mnuchin first to negotiate,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: pass a bill through the House that represents what you
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: want to see ultimately in the final product.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 34:19
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about 2020. Here's the lead of a Washington
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Post story from the weekend. Quote, President Trump's campaign is
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: preparing to launch a broad effort aimed at linking Joe
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Biden to China after concluding that it would be more
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: politically effective than defending or promoting Trump's response to the
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: coronavirus pandemic. Now, apparently not everyone on Team Trump agrees
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: with the strategy, including Kellyanne Conway. But apparently their internal
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: polling is getting worse for Trump. And it shows that
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: three quarters of all voters, including Biden voters, some Biden voters,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: blame China for the pandemic. So a Trump super PAC
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: is trying to get hashtag Beijing Biden trending with an
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: ad buy in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The Biden campaign
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: last week hit back with this ad.
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: Trump rolled over for the Chinese. He took their word
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: for it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: The president tweeted, China has been working very hard to
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: contain the coronavirus.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: China, I spoke with President Xi, and they're working very,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: very hard, and I think it's going to all work
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: out fine.
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: Trump praised the Chinese 15 times in January and February
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: as the coronavirus spread across the world.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: It's a tough situation. I think they're doing a very
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: good job.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: Are you concerned about its potential impact on the global economy?
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I think that China will do a very good job.
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: Trump never got a CDC team on the ground in China.
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: And the travel ban he brags about? Trump let in 40,000
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: travelers from China into America after he signed it. Not
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: exactly airtight.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Look around.
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: 22 million Americans are out of work. And we have
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: more officially reported cases and deaths than any other country.
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump left this country unprepared and unprotected for the
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: worst public health and economic crisis in our lifetime. And
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: now we are paying the price. All the negative ads
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: in the world can't change the truth.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So, Tommy, how serious is the China ad strategy here
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: on both sides? Is this social media or is this
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: some real money here? No, it seems like real money.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Trump super PAC is spending, I think,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: $ 10 million to tie Biden to China. And then American Bridge,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: a Democratic super PAC, is spending $ 15 million criticizing Trump
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: for the way he coddled China in response in the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: early days of the pandemic. So this is seemingly going
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: to be a core part of the strategy. What I
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: found so fascinating about that Washington Post story was that
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you have Kellyanne Conway on the record in the White House,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: basically fighting with her own campaign team about ad strategy.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: She wants the TV ads to talk about all the
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: great things Trump did. And what the campaign is acknowledging
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: is there's not much there there. And that, in fact,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: you can't really move numbers by talking about Donald Trump's
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: record on coronavirus. So the big question is, will it work?
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: And the answer is, with all things predicting, I don't know.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do think there is very fertile ground here.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Like you said, like 75% of voters blame China for
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: the coronavirus outbreak. There's another element of this, which is
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: the suggestion that the Chinese are maybe even more culpable
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: because the virus somehow escaped from a lab rather than
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: just naturally occurring in a bat, right? Like that's the
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: new theory that the Trump people are trying to push
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: really hard. If I were operating with the same set
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: of facts, I would rather be team Biden because you
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: could point to all the things Trump did and said
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: in those early days with respect to China.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that's.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Much more relevant, frankly, than like quotes from Joe Biden
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: going back to 1979, which is what they said will
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: be potentially part of their ad campaign, the Republicans. But
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I always worry that the Trump people have
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: way more money and are way more shameless. And so
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that can overwhelm even the best set of facts.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: So who knows? Love it.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Which side of in the Trump campaign do you think
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: is right? Kellyanne Conway on that they should promote more
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: of his pandemic response or the campaign that they should
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: just track by?
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Kellyanne Conway is full of shit.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: She was on the first one. She knows.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: She knows that you don't win for Donald Trump by
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: making Donald Trump good. You win by making his opponents bad.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: That's what they did to Hillary Clinton. That's been their
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: plan from the very beginning. That's what they're going to do.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: It's ultimately pretty simple. They didn't just pick China coincidentally.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: They picked it because they think they have a big
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: liability on China. We talked about this last week when
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: this first started happening. They think that they have a
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: big China liability because of what Donald Trump said in
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: the early days of this pandemic in being deferential to China,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: praising China and not taking the threat seriously enough. And
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: so they are attacking Joe Biden for this and Biden
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: is going to respond to make sure that there's more
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: than one argument being made, that there's an opposition argument
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: being made to kind of inoculate Joe Biden from this attack.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And so if we are talking about China and who
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: did a better job of protecting the country from a
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: virus that did begin in China, there is one person
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: who praised the government of China while allowing a pandemic
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: to take.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Hold in the country.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: And now that is, that is not to say that like, and,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: and by the way, like, and then that that'll come
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: with a lot of demagoguery from Trump about China, which
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: he's been doing for a very long time anyway. Um,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: and so it's sort of the same playbook, just a
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: different chapter.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah, like quarter.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I saw some people being like, oh, you know, criticizing
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Biden for jumping in on demagoguing China and like, oh,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: now we have both parties demagoguing China and this could
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: be dangerous. And I agree that like, you know, it's
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: not in anyone's interest, certainly not in the country's interest
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to just be all anti-China for an entire election. I thought,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: you know, that's how you eventually get to wars. But
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Biden didn't start this thing. And if Trump is going
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: to spend most of his campaign or a large part
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: of his campaign strategy saying that joe biden is too
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: close to china and weak on china i think it
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: is not only important but absolutely fucking necessary for joe
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: biden to point out the facts of donald trump's response
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: to the coronavirus pandemic which included believing president xi over
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: his own intelligence like it just seems pretty obvious.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Democrats should not like worked themselves into a position of
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: defending the Chinese response to this outbreak. They covered it up.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: They locked down doctors and critics. They've scrubbed web pages
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: of information that had been posted previously about their initial response.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: They're not letting in experts that are internationally recognized. So
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: China screwed this up in a big way, and we
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: should get to the bottom of exactly how. Now, part
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: of this that's being suggested in the press is that
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: this is a piece of a bigger puzzle that will
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: include like Hunter Biden's business dealings in China. And I'm
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: sure they will try to drag everyone they can possibly
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: find through the mud on the story of the Trump people.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: But I would be worried about the fact that back
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: in 2018, the Chinese awarded Ivanka Trump a whole bunch
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: of new trademarks for her businesses. Wow, what an amazing coincidence.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: And then right at the same time, Donald Trump was
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: helping out ZTE, a Chinese telecom company, Jared Kushner's having
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: all these secret meetings with Chinese authorities. Like, There is
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of shady shit happening with the Trump kids
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: and their business dealings in China that I suspect would
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: be the very first thing the Biden folks would say
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: in response to allegations about Hunter Biden. So, again, like
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I'd rather have the Biden team set of facts.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the Trump campaign is working overtime to
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: spin quite a few political reporters somewhat successfully that. You know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: this is their this is the silver bullet right here.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: They're going to attack Joe. Joe Biden is weak on
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: China and you got the Hunter thing and this and that.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: It is not to say it's not a clean hit
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: for them is an understatement for like they have family
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: connections to China. Trump screwed up the response by believing China. Like,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I just think it is so every time I see
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: one of these pieces, it's like Trump campaign has polling
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: that thinks this is the big deal. You know, it's like, yeah,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: if Biden says nothing in response, it's going to work.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: But if you match it with the record of what
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Trump actually did, what he's done with China, I don't
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: think it's going to work very well. All right. When
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: we come back, Lovett and I will talk to Senator
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders. Now that we have a Democratic nominee, it's
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the perfect time to revisit The Wilderness, my six part
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: podcast series about how to win the White House and
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: flip the Senate in 2020. I interviewed voters, strategists, organizers
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and candidates in battleground states to find out what it
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: will take to beat Donald Trump. Listen and subscribe now
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts. We are now joined
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: by Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator Sanders, thanks for coming
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: back on the show.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: My pleasure. Great to be with you.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So in the interim relief bill being negotiated in Congress
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: right now, it seems like Democrats won funding for hospitals, testing,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: and more relief to underserved small businesses, but they reportedly
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: aren't getting money for cities and states, hazard pay for
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: frontline workers, rent freeze, or any of the other provisions
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that you and many others have called for. Obviously, this
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: can't pass without quite a few Democratic votes in the Senate.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Will you support this?
• 43:48
  Speaker 8: Well, what we're looking at is a multi-stage process. I'll
• 43:53
  Speaker 8: find out more. I'm going to be on a Democratic
• 43:55
  Speaker 8: leadership meeting in a few hours, and I'll get more detail.
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: But this will be a modest proposal, quote unquote modest.
• 44:02
  Speaker 8: But clearly what has got to happen is that we
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: need a new major, major piece of legislation. And in
• 44:09
  Speaker 8: that major legislation, there has got to be all of
• 44:12
  Speaker 8: the things that you talked about and a lot more.
• 44:16
  Speaker 8: For example, one of the things that I am fighting
• 44:18
  Speaker 8: for with senators who have a different political perspective than
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: I do, people like Mark Warner, Doug Jones, and others,
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: is to make sure that every worker in America continues
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: to receive his or her paycheck, similar to the approach
• 44:36
  Speaker 8: used by many European countries, which I believe is the fastest,
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: most efficient way of getting money out to working people
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: throughout this country. John, the other thing that I believe
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: has to be done in the midst of this terrible
• 44:51
  Speaker 8: crisis is to make sure that all Americans have.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: Health care without out-of-pocket expenses.
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: And what that means to me is that Medicare should
• 45:02
  Speaker 8: cover the uninsured and fill in the gaps for the
• 45:06
  Speaker 8: underinsured and pick up the burden for those people who
• 45:09
  Speaker 8: are now losing their health insurance when they're losing their jobs.
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: We also have got to make sure, I mean, this
• 45:16
  Speaker 8: is a scandal beyond belief, that our medical providers, our doctors, nurses,
• 45:20
  Speaker 8: others have the protective equipment that they need as quickly
• 45:23
  Speaker 8: as possible.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: How confident are you that Trump and McConnell will actually
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: negotiate a larger phase four bill?
• 45:31
  Speaker 8: I am reasonably confident. And obviously, you know, what is
• 45:34
  Speaker 8: in that bill will be a struggle. They want continuously
• 45:38
  Speaker 8: tax breaks for the rich. They want as little accountability
• 45:42
  Speaker 8: as possible. They would like to dole out billions of
• 45:44
  Speaker 8: dollars in aid to corporations without giving the American people
• 45:51
  Speaker 8: the details. But at the end of the day, we
• 45:54
  Speaker 8: are facing such an unprecedented health care crisis and economic
• 45:59
  Speaker 8: crisis that I am absolutely confident they're going to be
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: forced to come to the table for a major, major
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: piece of legislation.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Senator, you wrote an an op-ed in The Times over
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: the weekend, talking about some of the ways the pandemic
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: exposes fundamental brokenness in our economy, in our society. How
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: do you see the pandemic affecting what is politically possible?
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: How do you see it? What lessons do you think
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: it's teaching our society?
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: Well, I think, let's be clear, we are living through
• 46:33
  Speaker 8: a moment in history. And I think many of us,
• 46:35
  Speaker 8: because we're living through it, We don't even fully appreciate
• 46:39
  Speaker 8: the dimensions of it. But this is an unprecedented moment
• 46:42
  Speaker 8: in the history of the United States of America. So
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: we're looking at a horrible virus, which is killing tens
• 46:50
  Speaker 8: of thousands of our friends and our neighbors. Everybody is
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: worried about their own health. They're worried about their family.
• 46:56
  Speaker 8: In the meantime, we're looking at 22 million people who
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: have officially applied for unemployment insurance, and the number of
• 47:04
  Speaker 8: unemployed is much higher than that. So a massive economic downturn,
• 47:08
  Speaker 8: a massive economic crisis. That is what we are dealing
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: with right now. We can't even deal with it effectively
• 47:14
  Speaker 8: because I'm sitting in my house. You're sitting in your home.
• 47:17
  Speaker 8: Workers are not able to get into factories, into offices
• 47:20
  Speaker 8: to do their jobs. So this is a horrible, horrible moment.
• 47:25
  Speaker 8: But I hope that in the midst of this unprecedented
• 47:28
  Speaker 8: and horrific moment, people are sitting back and asking themselves
• 47:33
  Speaker 8: questions which we don't here discussed in Congress or in
• 47:36
  Speaker 8: the corporate media. For example, we have been told over
• 47:40
  Speaker 8: and over again how wonderful and how popular our current
• 47:44
  Speaker 8: health care system is, which ties health care to employment, right?
• 47:49
  Speaker 8: We've heard that a million times. I have a good
• 47:51
  Speaker 8: job and I have good health insurance. What more do
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: we need in the world? Well, it turns out that
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: this system is a little bit more vulnerable than was
• 48:00
  Speaker 8: previously discussed. Because when you have tens of millions of
• 48:03
  Speaker 8: people losing their jobs, you know what? Many of them
• 48:07
  Speaker 8: are also losing their health insurance. And then on top
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: of that, we end up spending twice as much per
• 48:13
  Speaker 8: capita for health care as do the people of any
• 48:15
  Speaker 8: other country on earth. And on top of that, before
• 48:19
  Speaker 8: the pandemic, we had 87 million uninsured or underinsured. So
• 48:24
  Speaker 8: I think that all over this country, John, people are saying, hmm,
• 48:28
  Speaker 8: is this really the kind of system we want in
• 48:31
  Speaker 8: the future? Why are we the only major country on
• 48:33
  Speaker 8: earth not to guarantee healthcare to all people as a
• 48:37
  Speaker 8: human right? Should we continue to tie healthcare to our jobs?
• 48:42
  Speaker 8: So I think that's issue number one. Issue number two
• 48:45
  Speaker 8: is the broad economic issue. And that with so many people,
• 48:50
  Speaker 8: it is a tragedy that so many people are losing
• 48:52
  Speaker 8: their jobs.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: But what we are also seeing is.
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: That millions and millions of people, when they lose a
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: paycheck or two paychecks, find themselves in dire, dire economic circumstances.
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: You know, it's one thing if you have a couple
• 49:09
  Speaker 8: of hundred thousand dollars in the bank and you lose.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: Your job, it's not a good situation.
• 49:14
  Speaker 8: But what happens if you have $ 200 in the bank
• 49:16
  Speaker 8: and you lose your job and you don't get a paycheck?
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: How are you going to feed your family?
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: How are you going to pay your rent?
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: How are you going to pay your mortgage? And you
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: know what?
• 49:25
  Speaker 8: Half of the country was in that position before the pandemic.
• 49:30
  Speaker 8: So that raises the whole issue of the nature of
• 49:32
  Speaker 8: our economy. Do we think it is a good idea?
• 49:35
  Speaker 8: Are we allowed to discuss the reality of three people
• 49:38
  Speaker 8: owning more wealth than the bottom half of America and
• 49:42
  Speaker 8: half of our people living paycheck to paycheck? And by
• 49:45
  Speaker 8: the way, half a million people who are homeless and
• 49:48
  Speaker 8: God knows how many people because of poverty end up
• 49:51
  Speaker 8: in jail through mass incarceration. So I would hope that
• 49:54
  Speaker 8: those are some of the issues that people will start
• 49:57
  Speaker 8: thinking about and acting on as soon as we're through
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: with this pandemic.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: So it was a little over 10 years ago that
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: we went through a previous massive financial crisis that required
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: a massive intervention by the government. What lessons did you
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: learn in how the government responded then that you think
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: Democrats and Congress should be applying right now?
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: Well, you got a couple of hours for that discussion, John.
• 50:23
  Speaker 8: Because I remember that very well. That was not long
• 50:25
  Speaker 8: after I was elected to the Senate. And that was
• 50:28
  Speaker 8: in 2008, early 2009. And I remember the Secretary of
• 50:33
  Speaker 8: Treasury in the Bush administration coming in and saying, OK, look,
• 50:38
  Speaker 8: we've got a very, very serious crisis. Wall Street is
• 50:40
  Speaker 8: about to collapse. Please give us $ 750 billion that we
• 50:45
  Speaker 8: can distribute to our Wall Street friends. And on top
• 50:49
  Speaker 8: of that, obviously, the Fed is is going to provide
• 50:51
  Speaker 8: zero interest loans or almost zero interest to the tune
• 50:55
  Speaker 8: of trillions of dollars to corporations in America, banks in America,
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: and central banks all.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: Over the world.
• 51:01
  Speaker 8: Thank you very much. Please sign off on that. And
• 51:05
  Speaker 8: that was with a few modest exceptions, some help for homeowners,
• 51:09
  Speaker 8: not much. That was a bailout for the big money interest.
• 51:13
  Speaker 8: And before the pandemic, at least, we find that Wall
• 51:16
  Speaker 8: Street has more concentration of ownership than even before the bailout,
• 51:21
  Speaker 8: and Wall Street is doing phenomenally well. So the lesson,
• 51:24
  Speaker 8: and I voted needless to say against that bailout, the
• 51:27
  Speaker 8: lesson to be learned is that in an economic crisis,
• 51:31
  Speaker 8: our focus has got to be on the ordinary people,
• 51:34
  Speaker 8: the working people, the lower income people who are struggling.
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: We've got to help them.
• 51:39
  Speaker 8: And while this last so-called stimulus bill of 2.2 trillion
• 51:45
  Speaker 8: gave away much too much, 450 billion to the corporate world,
• 51:51
  Speaker 8: There was a lot more in that bill to help
• 51:55
  Speaker 8: ordinary workers than was the case back in 2008. And
• 51:59
  Speaker 8: perhaps the most significant part, doesn't get a lot of discussion,
• 52:03
  Speaker 8: is the fact that we put some $ 25 billion into
• 52:07
  Speaker 8: the airline industry, not to help the CEOs, but to
• 52:11
  Speaker 8: continue workers in that industry, 2 million workers continuing to
• 52:16
  Speaker 8: receive their paycheck. You guys aware of that? Two million
• 52:19
  Speaker 8: workers in the airline industry continue to receive their paycheck.
• 52:23
  Speaker 8: That's a model that I want to see applied to
• 52:24
  Speaker 8: the entire economy. Obviously, we extended unemployment for workers, gave
• 52:29
  Speaker 8: them $ 600 a week more, got a check for $ 1, 200,
• 52:31
  Speaker 8: et cetera, et cetera. So this bill was far, far
• 52:36
  Speaker 8: from perfect. But there was a lot more consciousness. Democratic
• 52:40
  Speaker 8: leadership stepped up to the plate. I think the expression
• 52:43
  Speaker 8: was workers first. Could we have done better?
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: Yes. Must we do better? Yes.
• 52:48
  Speaker 8: But at least this was not a complete bailout for
• 52:51
  Speaker 8: Wall Street and the rich.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: So, you know, Republicans had been giddy about attacking you
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: for being a socialist.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: They were.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: Excited by the prospect of it. In the last few weeks,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: we've seen Republicans, at times dragged by Democrats, get behind
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: a boost unemployment insurance policy. forgivable loans for small businesses,
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: direct payments to Americans, some even now supporting wage subsidies.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Did you ever expect to have so many democratic socialists
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: in the Senate with you?
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: Yes. Democratic socialism is rippling right through the U.S.
• 53:29
  Speaker 7: Congress, right?
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:32
  Speaker 8: You know, John asked me a moment ago, you know,
• 53:34
  Speaker 8: you asked me, you know, one of the lessons that
• 53:36
  Speaker 8: we've learned.
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: Well, you know what?
• 53:38
  Speaker 8: Turns out that right now, both economically and from a
• 53:41
  Speaker 8: healthcare perspective, where are people turning to? They're turning to
• 53:44
  Speaker 8: their government, that big, bad, terrible government. Well, when you
• 53:49
  Speaker 8: don't have food in the pantry and you lost your job,
• 53:51
  Speaker 8: you know what? You remember that you're a part of
• 53:53
  Speaker 8: a democratic society, that we're all in this together. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 8: that's called government, whether at the local state or federal level.
• 54:02
  Speaker 8: So I do find it interesting, John, picking up on
• 54:05
  Speaker 8: your point, that in the midst of this crisis, even
• 54:10
  Speaker 8: the most conservative Republicans have now understood, for their own
• 54:15
  Speaker 8: political preservation, I suspect, that government is going to be
• 54:20
  Speaker 8: having to play an enormously important role in protecting their constituents.
• 54:26
  Speaker 8: So it was interesting that in a $ 2. 2 trillion bill, big, big,
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: big government, not one Republican voted against that.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: So you've noted rightly that, you know, many progressive policies
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: have the support of a majority of voters. And we've
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: seen progressive policies like a $ 15 minimum wage when in
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: some purple and red areas of the country. But we
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: don't we still don't see a lot of really progressive
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: candidates win in places that aren't very blue. and the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: few that have won in more swing areas like Tammy
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Baldwin or Katie Porter tend to deemphasize their ideological labels.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: How do progressive candidates win in swing states and swing districts?
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: What have you learned from your last few presidential campaigns
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: about this?
• 55:15
  Speaker 8: Look, this is what I believe in, and I have
• 55:18
  Speaker 8: friends who disagree with me on this. I start off
• 55:23
  Speaker 8: with the assumption the correct assumption that you just brought forth,
• 55:28
  Speaker 8: in that the ideas that we are talking about are
• 55:32
  Speaker 8: not only the right ideas from a policy perspective, they're
• 55:35
  Speaker 8: popular ideas as well. So it's whether raising the minimum
• 55:40
  Speaker 8: wage to a living wage, dealing with income and wealth inequality,
• 55:45
  Speaker 8: that a lot of Republicans will understand that maybe the
• 55:48
  Speaker 8: top 1% should not own more wealth than the bottom 92%.
• 55:54
  Speaker 8: dealing with health care as a human right, understanding that
• 55:58
  Speaker 8: climate change is not only real but an existential threat
• 56:01
  Speaker 8: to the planet, conservatives understanding that we are spending $ 80
• 56:05
  Speaker 8: billion a year locking up our fellow Americans, understanding that
• 56:10
  Speaker 8: at this moment, when you've got undocumented immigrants putting their
• 56:15
  Speaker 8: lives on the line, dying in this crisis, that maybe
• 56:19
  Speaker 8: we might want to move the comprehensive immigration reform, et cetera,
• 56:23
  Speaker 8: et cetera. The fundamental dividing line, I think, between progressives
• 56:28
  Speaker 8: and the Democratic establishment is that I believe that at
• 56:32
  Speaker 8: a time when we have the lowest voter turnout of
• 56:36
  Speaker 8: almost any major country on earth, the future of the
• 56:39
  Speaker 8: Democratic Party has got to be aggressive in reaching out
• 56:43
  Speaker 8: to disillusioned working people, some of whom ended up voting
• 56:47
  Speaker 8: for Trump, to young people whose voting percentages are much
• 56:55
  Speaker 8: lower than the general population, of getting a level of
• 56:59
  Speaker 8: excitement in the political process that we have not had
• 57:03
  Speaker 8: in the past. And I think the only way you
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: do that, John, is by telling the truth, to be honest,
• 57:10
  Speaker 8: by having the courage to talk about the political structure
• 57:13
  Speaker 8: in America. Now, I know you know a lot about this.
• 57:17
  Speaker 8: You've worked with President Obama and others.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: But you know what?
• 57:22
  Speaker 8: Do we tell people, look, we are living in a
• 57:25
  Speaker 8: nation in which big money has enormous influence, not only
• 57:29
  Speaker 8: in the economic life of our country, but in the
• 57:31
  Speaker 8: political life of our country, that we cannot continue to
• 57:34
  Speaker 8: go to billionaires and wealthy people for campaign contributions? Because
• 57:39
  Speaker 8: as soon as you begin to do that, your views change.
• 57:46
  Speaker 8: Whether you think so or not, they really do change.
• 57:49
  Speaker 8: You're not going to take on the insurance industry. You're
• 57:51
  Speaker 8: not going to take on the drug companies. Now, you
• 57:53
  Speaker 8: tell me. I've campaigned all over this country, and any
• 57:56
  Speaker 8: time I talk about the pharmaceutical industry, people boo like crazy.
• 58:00
  Speaker 8: They hate the drug companies because they know that they're crooks,
• 58:03
  Speaker 8: and they know that they're charging us, in some cases,
• 58:05
  Speaker 8: 10 times more money for the same exact drugs than
• 58:09
  Speaker 8: are paid in other countries.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: You tell me.
• 58:12
  Speaker 8: Do you think the Democratic Party has taken on the
• 58:15
  Speaker 8: drug companies in anywhere near the degree that they should?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Clearly, we haven't made any progress on actually doing something
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: Well, you're being polite here, John.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Well, the rhetoric is there. You know, the rhetoric is
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: there in all these campaigns. And then for some reason,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the campaign's over, everyone gets elected and nothing happens.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: You're a smart guy. You know a little bit of politics.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the lobbyists are there and the special interests.
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: That's right. I mean, maybe it has... Do you think
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: that some reason.
• 58:44
  Speaker 8: might have to do with the fact that the drug
• 58:46
  Speaker 8: companies have spent some $ 4 billion in the last 20
• 58:49
  Speaker 8: years on lobbying and campaign contributions.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, of course.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: Right. And that's the issue. Can we deal with that?
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: So if everybody in America understands that not only are
• 59:02
  Speaker 8: the drug companies incredibly greedy, they are corrupt, they are
• 59:06
  Speaker 8: engaging in price fixing, and.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: We can't do anything about it.
• 59:10
  Speaker 8: How do I talk to ordinary Americans and say, get excited,
• 59:13
  Speaker 8: vote for this candidate, when it turns out that former
• 59:15
  Speaker 8: leaders of the Democratic Party are now lobbying for the
• 59:18
  Speaker 8: drug companies?
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: Those are the truths.
• 59:21
  Speaker 8: And I know they're uncomfortable truths, but those are truths
• 59:24
  Speaker 8: that we have to bring out. And then people say, yeah,
• 59:26
  Speaker 8: you're right, Bernie. or you write, you know, Alexandria or
• 59:29
  Speaker 8: whatever it may be. We got to deal with that reality.
• 59:32
  Speaker 8: And if you don't deal with that reality, you're not
• 59:34
  Speaker 8: going to get people excited. And if you're not going
• 59:36
  Speaker 8: to get people excited, young people, working class people are
• 59:39
  Speaker 8: not going to vote. And if they don't vote, then
• 59:42
  Speaker 8: the rich continue to dominate the political process. That's a
• 59:45
  Speaker 8: long story.
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: No.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So, you know, last month, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said this about
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: the progressive movement to the New York Times, quote, There's
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: so much emphasis on making outreach as conflict-based as possible.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I even feel miscast and misunderstood because it's
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: about what tools you use and conflict is one tool,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: but not the only tool. What do you think about
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: that characterization of the progressive movement?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 8: Well, I think for a combination of reasons, I love
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 8: Alexandria and I think she is brilliant. And she has
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 8: played an extraordinary role. This is a woman who has
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 8: been in Congress for one term. You know, she has
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 8: impacted America more than most members of Congress who were
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 8: there for 50 years. You know, I think the issue
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 8: of conflict, I think there are two parts of it.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: I think media loves conflict.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 8: So if I'm on your show right now and I say,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 8: you know, da-da-da-da is the worst human being in the
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 8: history of the world, it'd be a big story, right?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 8: But if I talk about the need for health care
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 8: for all, or take it on the.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: Lowering the cost is boring.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 8: So media plays that role. And I think Alexandria's point
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 8: is well taken, though, is how you bring people together
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 8: patiently without loud verbiage of sometimes once or twice I
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 8: myself am guilty of is something that we want to consider.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: So let's talk about sort of healthcare right now, because
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: this was a place where there was a lot of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: conflict in the campaign, and the axis of the debate
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: was around Medicare for all versus a public option that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: may get you to universal or near universal coverage. Right now,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: as you mentioned, there's more than 20 million people out
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: of work. Many, if not most, will lose their employer-based healthcare.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: What do you see as the prospects? I mean, you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: mentioned trying to get them into the public system. What
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: do you see as the prospects of getting those 20
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: million people or whatever the number of people it turns
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: out to be into Medicaid, into Medicare in a permanent
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: and ongoing way?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 8: Well, I think, John, that's a great question. And it's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 8: a question we're not talking about enough. And again, this
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 8: is an area, I say to both of you, where
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 8: I have not been impressed with Democratic leadership, because the
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 8: ideas that I'm hearing about health care are very, very
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 8: weak and corporate oriented ideas. To my mind, I think
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 8: what the American people want to hear at a time
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 8: when they're losing their jobs and many of them are
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 8: suffering financially, they want to know that if they have
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 8: to go to the doctor for whatever reason, coronavirus or
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 8: anything else, they have to end up in a hospital
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 8: for whatever reason, that they're not going to have to
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 8: take out their credit cards or their wallets to pay
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 8: the bill. That in this crisis, for the moment, that
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 8: the government should be there in covering all of their
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 8: healthcare needs. That if they have private insurance, that the
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 8: government through Medicare, in my view, will be there to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 8: supplement their out-of-pocket expenses. So I think the message is
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 8: pretty simple. I think from the Democratic leadership, the message
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 8: has got to be now, and I'm going to fight
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 8: for this hard, is that during this crisis, no more
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 8: out-of-pocket expenses. If you have no health insurance, Medicare is
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 8: there for you. If you have private insurance and you
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 8: have deductibles and co-payments, Medicare will fill those gaps. There
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 8: are some discussion, as you may have heard, about the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 8: government supplementing or funding COBRA. You've heard that discussion?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 8: Frankly, I think that is an absurd idea for a
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 8: dozen different reasons. It is really just a boon to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 8: the private healthcare industry.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: It is inefficient. It is unfair. Some people have good
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: coverage today or had good coverage.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 8: Others did not. Why do we maintain that situation? Right now,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 8: I think the demand is health care for all during
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 8: the crisis. And the day after the crisis ends, we
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 8: make the case that health care in America must be
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 8: seen as a human right, not something tied to employment.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: And, you know, we're working with Biden's campaign.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 8: You know, obviously, Joe does not believe in Medicare for all,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 8: but hopefully does believe in the government playing a stronger
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: role in terms of health care. We're going to push
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 8: them as hard as we can. Bottom line is every
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 8: human being in the United States of America should receive
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 8: health care as a human right, period.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: So on that note, when you endorsed Joe Biden, the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: two of you put together six task forces to discuss
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: issues that were central to your campaign. You know, it
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he's going to wholeheartedly embrace your Medicare
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: for all bill. But what additional policies do you think
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: are realistic in terms of him embracing before he accepts
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: the nomination this summer?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I had talked to Joe about this,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 8: and I very much appreciate his willingness to do that.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 8: I think Joe and the people around him understand that
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 8: if he is going to win, and I'm going to
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 8: do everything that I can to see that he wins,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 8: because it is preposterous to conceive of four more years
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: of Donald Trump, that if he is going to win,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 8: he is going to have to reach out to a
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 8: constituency which has not been overly enthusiastic about them. And
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 8: that's just the fact. They understand that. I'm not saying
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 8: anything out of school here. Everybody understands that. So I
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 8: think what these task force are about, and I think
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 8: once the names are released, I think we're close to
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 8: doing that, you're going to see really, really strong people
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 8: on both sides representing the Biden perspective and the Sanders perspective.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 8: And the issues to be discussed are are the economy
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 8: in general, health care, immigration, criminal justice, climate change.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: And.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: I'll think of it. I forgot. There's a sixth one
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 8: And you will see a coming together of our people saying, look,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 8: I know you can't go to Medicare for all, for example.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: All right, that's not your view.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 8: What can you do to guarantee health care to all people?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: How do we move toward Medicare for all?
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 8: In terms of criminal justice, I believe you're going to
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 8: see some real movement on Biden in this regard. I
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 8: think he does feel very strongly about the absurdity of
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 8: locking up people whose crime is that they have been
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 8: poor and have not had the education that they need.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: So I think you'll see some pretty big steps there.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 8: I think on climate change, I think where the Biden
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 8: campaign will acknowledge to you they have not been strong.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 8: I think you're going to see some real movement in
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 8: that area as well.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: So last question. New York Times spoke to a few
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: dozen of your supporters last week, and there was one
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: young man, a 24-year-old African-American who's registered in Pennsylvania newly.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: And he said, if I happen to be at my
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: polling place, I would vote for Joe Biden, but I'm
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: not very enthusiastic about him whatsoever. What would you say
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: to that supporter about why he should get to that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: polling place?
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 8: I think that's the challenge, exactly the challenge that Joe Biden.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: Is faced with.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 8: So I say to that supporter, but before I say
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 8: to that supporter, I say to Joe, that is the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 8: guy you're going to have to bring in to the
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 8: polling booth. And the way you're going to do it
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 8: is to make him appreciate and believe that when you
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 8: are elected president, and again, I will do everything I
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 8: can to make that happen, you're going to stand up
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 8: for that guy and that you have the guts to
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 8: to take on powerful special interests who this fellow understands
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 8: in many ways of destroying our country. So, I mean,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 8: a lot of that burden is, it's not just on me,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 8: it's more significantly on the Biden campaign. But to that person,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 8: I would say this, look, I very much, I am
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 8: so grateful for the support that we have received all
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 8: over this country. You know, John, we had millions of
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 8: people knocking on doors, contributing to our campaign, and I'll
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 8: from a personal perspective, that is something that I will
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 8: never forget and means the world to me. But right now,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 8: I say to everybody out there, I don't know that
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 8: this country survives four more years of Donald Trump. I
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 8: don't know that we survive as a democratic country. I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 8: don't know how you have a president who has shown
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 8: time and again that he doesn't believe in science, whether
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 8: it's the coronavirus or climate change. I don't know how
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 8: we survive as a nation when you have a president
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 8: who wanted to throw millions of people off the healthcare
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 8: they already have, who lies every single day, who's a
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 8: racist and a sexist and a homophobe and a xenophobe,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 8: you know? And what we all have got to do, what,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 8: you know, being involved in politics is about, it ain't
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 8: easy stuff.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: Believe me, I wanted to become president of the United States.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: I really did.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 8: Thought I would be a good president. Thought I was
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 8: the strongest candidate to defeat Trump.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: All right. Didn't happen.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 8: So I can't walk away, and nor can I believe
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 8: anybody in America. So what we have got to do
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 8: is two things. We got to work as hard as
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 8: possible to defeat Trump and elect Joe. But at the
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 8: same time, we've got to put as much pressure at
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 8: the grassroots level on the Biden campaigns. to be representing
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 8: the working class of this country, the middle class of
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 8: this country, having the courage to take on powerful special interests.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 8: So that's what I would say to that particular fellow
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 8: and anybody.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: Else in the country.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty great answer. Senator Sanders, thank you so
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: much for joining us as always. Please come back again
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: and stay safe and healthy.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: Well, John, you too. Good to see you.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 8: We need serious political discussion in this country and thank
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 8: you for you and your staff for helping to make
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 8: that possible.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: Keep up the good work.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Senator. Take care.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: Bye-bye.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Bernie for joining us today. Hey, boys. Hey, boys.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: 420, bitches.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. It's my mother-in-law's birthday. Happy birthday, Marnie.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Hey, one thing we didn't talk about today, but maybe
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: we should talk about more later. For all you people
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: who stay after the interview, love you hooks, by the way.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: True fans, right here.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: There's some reporting over the weekend about how much, whenever
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: someone says reporting over the weekend, I think of the weekend,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: like writing for the Washington Post. There's been some great
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: reporting about how Donald Trump's online campaign is just so
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: much bigger than Biden's when you look at Twitter follows, Facebook, YouTube.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: So one way people listening who say after the interview
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: can help is just by following Joe Biden on those
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: platforms and also like posting things about why they like
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden. So just something to think about as we
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: end the show today and we all go back to
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: our sad quarantine lives. Don't just post anti-Trump stuff. And
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm saying this to myself to talk about Democratic policies
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: put forward by Joe Biden that make you want to
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: support him or help your life.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: It's very smart, Tommy. And, you know, David Plouffe talks
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: about this all the time, that in 2016, everyone posted
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: anti-Trump shit all the time. Not nearly enough people posted
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: about positive things about Hillary, her policies. And there was
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of critique of her campaign for not having
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: a positive message. But like, again, this is on all
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: of us. All of us have feeds. All of us
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: have the power to push out positive messaging, push out
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: progressive policies that Joe Biden has embraced. there's a lot
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: of garbage out there on the internet, and it's going
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: to be nastier and nastier as we get closer to November,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: and each of us has the power to help promote
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: some good stuff.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Are not what you can do for your country. 420, baby.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Bye, everybody. Pod Save America is a product of Cricket Media.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: and Milo Kemp, who film and upload these episodes as
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: videos every week.