Latest / The Craig Way Show / Cowboys Bring in Pettine, Texans Trade for Marvin Harrison Jr., NFL Surprises with Jori Epstein

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Cowboys Bring in Pettine, Texans Trade for Marvin Harrison Jr., NFL Surprises with Jori Epstein · The Craig Way Show

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  Speaker 1: We continue talking.
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  Speaker 2: To NFL next on this Tuesday afternoon edition of the program.
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  Speaker 2: Jake Herman in for Craig Way. Happy to welcome our
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  Speaker 2: next guest. She is a senior NFL reporter over at
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  Speaker 2: Yahoo Sports, Jory Epstein. Hey, Jory, thanks for making the
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  Speaker 2: time for us. And what a ball game last night
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  Speaker 2: to tee us off here.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely great to be on with you, Jake. And yes,
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  Speaker 1: that was quite the game. Yet another overtime for the NFL,
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  Speaker 1: who loves their one-score games, and they love their overtime.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen a lot of those. It was a
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  Speaker 2: marathon NFL week, like Mike Tirico pointed out on Sunday
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  Speaker 2: Night Football, from the London game bleeding into the early
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  Speaker 2: window yesterday, and then overtime in both the Falcons-Ravens game,
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  Speaker 2: and then last night between the Bills and the Rams.
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  Speaker 2: I'm curious, obviously these are two teams that a lot
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  Speaker 2: of folks had penciled in as Super Bowl contenders yesterday,
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  Speaker 2: If we learned anything meaningful in your view about either
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  Speaker 2: side from what we saw out there last night.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did have to make picks at Yahoo Sports,
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  Speaker 1: which I don't love picks. I'm always like, isn't my
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  Speaker 1: job to inform rather than predict? But we have to
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  Speaker 1: do them for work. And I did pick the Bills
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  Speaker 1: and the Rams at the beginning of the season to
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  Speaker 1: be the Super Bowl team. So I still think that's possible.
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  Speaker 1: But I think we saw from the Bills that Josh
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  Speaker 1: Allen is as much of a threat as he's ever been.
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  Speaker 1: I get that he's sometimes going to have the turnovers.
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  Speaker 1: But he's had a rushing touchdown in every single game.
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  Speaker 1: He's got eight and five and more than 50 rushing
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  Speaker 1: yards beyond what he had done this season against a
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  Speaker 1: Rams team that I thought looked a little stronger defensively
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  Speaker 1: in some of their earlier performances than they did against
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  Speaker 1: Josh Allen and James Cook last night. I think when
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  Speaker 1: you get and then you look at what they were
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  Speaker 1: doing on defense and special teams, I mean, to block
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  Speaker 1: that kick late. Yes, the Rams were having special teams concerns,
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  Speaker 1: but it really was a pretty complete performance from the Bills,
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  Speaker 1: recognizing that, yes, they had the fumble in overtime, but
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  Speaker 1: it was kind of like everyone was stepping up to
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  Speaker 1: make the move when they most needed to. With the Rams,
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  Speaker 1: I still think that the Rams are extremely talented, particularly
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  Speaker 1: on offense, and that once they get back to full
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  Speaker 1: strength with their roster guys like Miles Garrett coming back,
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  Speaker 1: that they could be the most dangerous if they get
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  Speaker 1: to the playoffs. But we're kind of getting to this
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  Speaker 1: point where you have to wonder, is there going to
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  Speaker 1: be too much margin of error? Are they going to
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  Speaker 1: make it.
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  Speaker 2: To the playoffs? Especially with that crowded division, it's a
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  Speaker 2: question that's worth bringing up. You know, we're going to
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  Speaker 2: talk in a moment about about the Texans and the
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  Speaker 2: Cowboys who each face their own perilous path to the playoffs.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the the NFC East, I pointed it out.
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  Speaker 2: Nobody won last week and two teams played one another.
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  Speaker 2: It says something about where the division is. The Dallas
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  Speaker 2: Cowboys and you've done some great reporting on this story,
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  Speaker 2: having covered them in the past and obviously continuing to
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  Speaker 2: cover the league. this season they're willing to invest in
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  Speaker 2: in whatever it takes to fix this defense and the
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  Speaker 2: latest chapter in that story is bringing in mike pettin
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  Speaker 2: to help out christian parker on the defensive side of
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  Speaker 2: the football what did you make of this move and
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  Speaker 2: um how do you think this potentially changes the cowboys
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  Speaker 2: outlook in the nfc east yeah i think this.
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  Speaker 1: Move makes a lot of sense mike penn is someone
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  Speaker 1: who previously had hired christian parker under him with the
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  Speaker 1: green bay packers he's also worked with head coach and
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  Speaker 1: offensive play caller brian schottenheimer more than a decade ago
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  Speaker 1: back when they were with the New York Jets. So
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  Speaker 1: he's got a lot of familiarity with the staff. And
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  Speaker 1: usually you see some sort of defensive, offensive assistant role
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  Speaker 1: on coaching staffs. I mean, Cowboys team owner and general
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  Speaker 1: manager Jerry Jones talked about this on radio today and said, look,
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  Speaker 1: we wanted to do this before the season. He wasn't
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  Speaker 1: available then. Now he is. It makes a lot of sense.
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  Speaker 1: And so I think it's more about supporting Christian Parker
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  Speaker 1: than it is about taking out the power from him.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen other teams across the league like
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  Speaker 1: the Denver Broncos with Sean Payton, as well as the
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  Speaker 1: Texans with D'Amico Ryans, take that play calling away from
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  Speaker 1: their coordinator and give it to their head coach, the
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  Speaker 1: Broncos on offense and the Texans on defense. And so
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  Speaker 1: to me, you do this, then Christian Parker's also apparently
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  Speaker 1: going to be coaching up from the booth now rather
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  Speaker 1: than the sideline. And you say, let's give you a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more. The last thing that's worth noting is that, yes,
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  Speaker 1: Christian Parker's a first-time play caller. It takes a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of time. The Cowboys also haven't been a 3-4
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  Speaker 1: defense in like 13 years. And so this is not
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  Speaker 1: just the new players. It's not just the first-time play callers.
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  Speaker 1: It's also the fact that it usually takes, and I
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  Speaker 1: wrote about this over the offseason, a couple years to
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  Speaker 1: be able to get your personnel ready for a completely
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  Speaker 1: new system. It's not just new plays in the same
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  Speaker 1: type of system. So I think we have to keep
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  Speaker 1: that in mind.
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  Speaker 2: There are new personnel, and then there are also the
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  Speaker 2: personnel having to fill in for the Cowboys. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: the boatload of injuries they've had on the defensive side
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  Speaker 2: plays a big role in that kind of transition period
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  Speaker 2: you're talking about as well. So here are the Cowboys
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  Speaker 2: at 2-3. The Giants, despite that unconvincing tie in Washington,
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  Speaker 2: lead the division at 3-1-1. Do you lean a certain
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  Speaker 2: way in the NFC East right now as to who
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  Speaker 2: ends up on top of one of the weaker divisions
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  Speaker 2: in football?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still not that afraid of the Giants if
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  Speaker 1: I'm anyone in the NFL, but they're winning games they
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  Speaker 1: shouldn't win, tying games they should have lost. So I
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  Speaker 1: don't know that I'm really convinced. I still think that
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  Speaker 1: the Cowboys and the Eagles have more talent. I actually
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  Speaker 1: think Jaden Daniels and Washington played quite well this week
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  Speaker 1: and he was rushing quite well before they had their
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  Speaker 1: late game gap in overtime. And so I think it's
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  Speaker 1: pretty wide open. The Giants clearly have shown that they're
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  Speaker 1: not making some of the errors, but I mean, they
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  Speaker 1: still have that overtime fumble that led to Washington having
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  Speaker 1: the chance. So I would say everyone's kind of a mess,
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  Speaker 1: which means they're all still in it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well put. We're talking with Jory Epstein from...
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  Speaker 2: yahoo sports where she's a senior nfl reporter and we
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  Speaker 2: had a big trade you don't see trades like this
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  Speaker 2: in the nfl too often with the texans sending a
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  Speaker 2: second round pick as well as a six four seventh
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  Speaker 2: round swap over to the arizona cardinals to take on
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  Speaker 2: marvin harrison jr what have you heard around the league
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  Speaker 2: in terms of reactions to this.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah it was interesting i was at the browns jets
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  Speaker 1: game when this went down and i went into the
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  Speaker 1: jet soccer room afterwards and talked to garrett wilson so
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  Speaker 1: i'm like okay garrett You are also a receiver who's
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  Speaker 1: drafted top 10. You played with Marvin Harrison Jr. at
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  Speaker 1: Ohio State, and you played with CJ Stroud at Ohio State. Like,
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  Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And he said, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but I
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  Speaker 1: was praying that something would happen. I was praying for
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  Speaker 1: him to have something like this. And I think when
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  Speaker 1: you look at it, the value was a little rich
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  Speaker 1: for my liking. I talked to other teams around the
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  Speaker 1: league who said they would not have given up anything
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  Speaker 1: higher than a day three pick, so a fourth or
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  Speaker 1: fifth round at the highest, knowing that the Cardinals kept
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  Speaker 1: asking for a second round pick. That said... I think
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  Speaker 1: if there's a team that it's most likely Marvin Harrison Jr.
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  Speaker 1: will revive his career at, it is the Texans with
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  Speaker 1: CJ Stroud and having the chemistry they already had together
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  Speaker 1: in college. Garrett was talking me through how they're both
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  Speaker 1: very cerebral and really connect on that. And so I
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  Speaker 1: think from an on and off field standpoint, it could
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  Speaker 1: be a really good mix. And I get why you'd
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  Speaker 1: want to take a flat. I mean, it's not really
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  Speaker 1: a flyer. You gave up a second round pick. I
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  Speaker 1: get why you would want to take a chance to
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  Speaker 1: upgrade your roster and But if you're the Texans, you're
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  Speaker 1: still one and four. You've only beat the Titans who
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  Speaker 1: have beat nobody. So you have no wins against any
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  Speaker 1: team that has beat anyone. And you just gave up
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  Speaker 1: a second round pick in the 2027 draft, which is
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  Speaker 1: supposed to be very talent rich. So I would say
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  Speaker 1: over the whole, it kind of is a desperation move,
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  Speaker 1: but could they revive his career? It's possible.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think about the fit joining CJ Stroud,
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  Speaker 2: who I know has come into the season with a
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  Speaker 2: lot to prove, obviously playing without the contract. That was
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  Speaker 2: the big offseason conversation with Nick Casario and CJ Stroud,
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  Speaker 2: both kind of acknowledging that it had to be better
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  Speaker 2: than what they put out on the field in 2025.
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  Speaker 2: In my opinion, wasting one of the better defensive seasons
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  Speaker 2: we've seen in the NFL ever. in a long time
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  Speaker 2: but but I feel like this Texans passing game and
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  Speaker 2: offense as a whole under Nick Cayley while they've struggled
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  Speaker 2: to run it I feel like Stroud's played better this
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  Speaker 2: year this season so far.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah I'm glad you pointed that out Jake because I
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  Speaker 1: included that in my article this idea of like just
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  Speaker 1: because they're losing doesn't mean CJ Stroud is playing poorly
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  Speaker 1: he's completed 64.3 percent of his passes six touchdowns no
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  Speaker 1: interceptions like 1400 yards another rushing touchdown I mean he's
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  Speaker 1: been pretty efficient and he's been doing this without most
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  Speaker 1: of his receivers You have the Jaden Higgins ACL tear.
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  Speaker 1: You have Nico Collins suffering the hamstring strain. Tank Dell
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  Speaker 1: hasn't come back from injured reserve yet. So he really
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  Speaker 1: has had a pretty shallow group. And to that point,
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  Speaker 1: I would say the Texans need to understand what they
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  Speaker 1: have in C.J. Stroud to understand, do they want to
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  Speaker 1: give this guy an extension, especially given the massive price
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  Speaker 1: tag on quarterbacks you're extending? And so understanding what he
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  Speaker 1: looks like with at least some degree of a complement
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  Speaker 1: of weapons, even if he's still going to have a
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  Speaker 1: lot of injured guys, is a valuable asset. lesson to
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  Speaker 1: learn for your team building.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, I hadn't thought about it that way. You're surrounding
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  Speaker 2: him with more talent. You are still evaluating every day
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  Speaker 2: what his future is, even as we watch this season
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  Speaker 2: kind of get thrown into doubt. I mean, what's gone
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  Speaker 2: wrong in your mind for the Texans defense? This was
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  Speaker 2: supposed to be an elite unit and they've had chances
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  Speaker 2: to close out ball games and haven't been able to
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  Speaker 2: do it. I'm curious if you're seeing anything specific on
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  Speaker 2: that front for D'Amico, Ryans and crew.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really surprising because, I mean, I had someone
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  Speaker 1: ask me today who I was talking to, well, why
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't D'Amico have just called the defense all along when
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  Speaker 1: he's so good at it? And I'm like, okay, but
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  Speaker 1: Matt Burke was calling the defense last year when they
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  Speaker 1: were playing so well. So they had a success in
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  Speaker 1: the past. I mean, it's a good question. I think
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  Speaker 1: sometimes you can see little mistakes spiral. So I don't
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  Speaker 1: know that it's one single thing, but definitely this is
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  Speaker 1: a defense that, I mean, struggled against the past. The
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  Speaker 1: run has not been a huge issue for them, but
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  Speaker 1: you really need to be able to be more effective
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  Speaker 1: against the past.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see that Texans defense try and adjust the
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  Speaker 2: second half of the season. They take on a Jacksonville
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  Speaker 2: Jaguars team next week that might have some issues up front.
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  Speaker 2: So we'll see if Will Anderson's able to feast on
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  Speaker 2: some of the offensive line injuries that the Jags picked
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  Speaker 2: up in London. OK, five weeks into the season, we're
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  Speaker 2: talking with Jory Epstein from Yahoo Sports for just a
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  Speaker 2: couple more minutes here. What's the biggest story in the
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  Speaker 2: NFL right now?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I think there's a sense of recency bias,
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  Speaker 1: but what feels like the biggest story to me right
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  Speaker 1: now is the game management across the NFL. We see
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  Speaker 1: the commanders and how they blow the game when they
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  Speaker 1: don't get lined up to kick the field goal, much
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  Speaker 1: less to make the field goal. You see the Cowboys
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  Speaker 1: at the end of their game in Rio against the
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  Speaker 1: Baltimore Ravens only, I mean, allow enough time for Lamar
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  Speaker 1: Jackson to make that final pass to lose on the
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  Speaker 1: field goal. And everyone's saying, well, it's the decision-making and
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  Speaker 1: head coach Brian Schottenheimer saying, I made the wrong decision.
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  Speaker 1: And then the Philadelphia Eagles do the opposite this week
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  Speaker 1: in London against the Jaguars, and they also lose. And
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  Speaker 1: so there's kind of all of these questions of, is
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  Speaker 1: it the execution? Is it the decision-making? And it kind
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  Speaker 1: of reminds me how much goes right on every single
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  Speaker 1: NFL play, which I know that's kind of like an
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  Speaker 1: annoyingly rose-colored glasses thing to say, but it's crazy how
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  Speaker 1: much work needs to go into all of this. So
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  Speaker 1: I would say situational football, it's a little bit trite,
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  Speaker 1: but when I go around to my training camp tour,
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  Speaker 1: I tend to feel like, oh, everyone wants to just
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  Speaker 1: tell me they're practicing situational football. And then you get
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  Speaker 1: into the season and you're really like, well, maybe they
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  Speaker 1: actually do need to be practicing this. And then the
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  Speaker 1: other thing I'll say is Patrick Mahomes coming back at
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  Speaker 1: the level he came back from his injury, doing what
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  Speaker 1: he's done, getting the Chiefs to 4-0. I mean, it's
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  Speaker 1: so impressive. So I know obviously he's got his Texas
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  Speaker 1: college ties. I don't think we should stop taking, I
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  Speaker 1: don't think we should take for granted what Patrick Mahomes
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  Speaker 1: is doing and the fact that when he had that injury,
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  Speaker 1: there was questions about could he do that again?
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  Speaker 2: And it's easy to forget when you're watching Josh Allen
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  Speaker 2: play on what feels like a whole other level last night.
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  Speaker 2: But Mahomes and Ken Walker, that offense looks like it's
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  Speaker 2: found some of its swagger back, even with the injury
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  Speaker 2: that Rishi Rice has picked up.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, quick hitter here.
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  Speaker 2: Bigger surprise, the Vikings at 5-0 or the Chargers at 0-5?
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  Speaker 1: Chargers at 0-5. I mean, the Vikings still need to
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  Speaker 1: figure out their offense, but with Brian Flores' defense, you
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  Speaker 1: always have such a high ceiling. I thought this Mike McDaniel,
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  Speaker 1: Justin Herbert, pairing was going to work better and I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: get that they've had a lot of a really tough
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  Speaker 1: schedule but oh and five is just.
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  Speaker 2: Unbelievable Yeah, I'm pretty surprised by that, too. I picked
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  Speaker 2: them on this show to win the division, and that's
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  Speaker 2: the last time we'll mention that for a few months.
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  Speaker 2: One thing that we've mentioned too much early in the season,
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  Speaker 2: you had some good reporting on this, are the penalty
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  Speaker 2: flags being up around football. We saw, I think, 25
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  Speaker 2: or 26 more flags last night, even before overtime. Is
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  Speaker 2: this the new norm, 200 penalty yards per game? Is
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  Speaker 2: something off right now? Are we seeing kind of a
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  Speaker 2: bug or a new feature of NFL football games being
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  Speaker 2: this flag-heavy?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well put. And it depends who you ask in
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  Speaker 1: the league. Different people have different opinions. There are definitely
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  Speaker 1: some teams I'm talking to who are like, I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: these officials, the league was trying to really emphasize accountability
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  Speaker 1: during the collective bargaining agreement negotiation this offseason. Maybe we're
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  Speaker 1: seeing kind of the impact of this. You have other
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: people say, well, it's early in the season. A lot
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  Speaker 1: of players aren't playing in preseason. You're going to have
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  Speaker 1: sloppiness early in the season. It tends to get figured out.
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  Speaker 1: And then there's also an element of going into this week,
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  Speaker 1: and I haven't checked the numbers coming out of this week,
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  Speaker 1: delay of game and false start penalties were at 10-year highs,
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  Speaker 1: which is notable not because it's the only flag being thrown,
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  Speaker 1: but those are not like officials all of a sudden
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  Speaker 1: saying that everything is DPI or nothing is DPI. That's
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  Speaker 1: really more of a pre-snap operational thing. So I think
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  Speaker 1: there's a couple of things and new play callers. So
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  Speaker 1: I do think it's going to even back out in October, November,
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  Speaker 1: and December, but we've already had significant tension between officials
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  Speaker 1: and players and coaches. So we'll see if it gets
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  Speaker 1: even down in time to kind of cool that a.
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  Speaker 2: Little Yeah, feels like an all-time high in terms of
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  Speaker 2: tension and certainly in terms of flags making for a
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  Speaker 2: choppy product. But I'm glad you brought out the kind
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  Speaker 2: of distinction there on the pre-snap penalties. Unlike Dan Quinn,
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  Speaker 2: I know you are on the clock, so I won't
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  Speaker 2: lose track of time. Love the intel. Thank you so
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  Speaker 2: much for stopping by and joining us, Jory. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: really appreciate the time.
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  Speaker 1: Jake, great to be on with you. Talk to you soon.
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  Speaker 2: That's Jory Epstein, senior NFL reporter with Yahoo Sports. We're
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: back with more NFL talk, including some sound bites from
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Jerry Jones here on AM 1300 The Zone.