Latest / The Future of Luxury Podcast with Dr Daniel Langer / Jonathan Levine: Founder of Master & Dynamic on Shaping the Future of Luxury Audio Experiences

Transcript

Jonathan Levine: Founder of Master & Dynamic on Shaping the Future of Luxury Audio Experiences · The Future of Luxury Podcast with Dr Daniel Langer

• 0:07
  so welcome Jonathan it's an incredible
• 0:09
  pleasure to have you on the podcast and
• 0:13
  um I remember our first meeting many
• 0:16
  years ago I think it was actually before
• 0:18
  just before the pandemic when um when we
• 0:21
  were I think we met first in London um
• 0:23
  at a joint event and then I invited you
• 0:25
  to um my University to do a presentation
• 0:29
  with my with my students and I think
• 0:30
  then came the pandemic and then we met a
• 0:33
  few months later for the next time so
• 0:35
  every time we meet it's a great pleasure
• 0:37
  and um I'm very very proud to have you
• 0:40
  on on the podcast today and maybe to
• 0:41
  start tell us a little bit about you and
• 0:44
  also about master and dynamic yeah well
• 0:47
  it's good to be uh speaking to you
• 0:49
  unfortunately virtually but we'll see
• 0:51
  each other again in person um so uh I'm
• 0:55
  Jonathan LaVine I'm the founder and CEO
• 0:58
  of New York City based a luxury Audio
• 1:01
  company master and dynamic uh I started
• 1:04
  the
• 1:05
  company uh I started thinking about the
• 1:07
  company in 2013 I launched it in uh
• 1:11
  2014 I've never been in audio before
• 1:14
  I've never been in the luxury business
• 1:16
  before I'm a seral consumer products
• 1:19
  entrepreneur uh and I got the idea to
• 1:22
  create master adamic from uh my two sons
• 1:26
  uh who were very into music one of them
• 1:28
  was a DJ the other one was a
• 1:30
  videographer and uh you that's where the
• 1:34
  you know this is also at a time when
• 1:36
  they were using beats uh beats was
• 1:39
  taking over the world and I just saw a
• 1:41
  different opportunity and uh you know I
• 1:43
  think part of the success is that we did
• 1:45
  not try and become the next beats we we
• 1:48
  took a very different
• 1:50
  path yeah I remember that um you told me
• 1:54
  the the first time we met how critical
• 1:57
  design is for you in that and not only
• 2:00
  design but also excellent audio but tell
• 2:03
  us a little bit about the design aspect
• 2:05
  of Master Dynamic yeah uh it's still
• 2:08
  what drives us I I tell people all the
• 2:10
  time and it's uh 100% true everything we
• 2:14
  do every product we do starts with
• 2:17
  design and then we layer in all of our
• 2:20
  Technologies whether it be software
• 2:22
  whether it be
• 2:24
  Acoustics uh and other other ideas um
• 2:29
  but but again it all and materials but
• 2:31
  it always starts with design and you
• 2:33
  know I think um I remind people that uh
• 2:37
  you know in the history of of wearables
• 2:40
  of which headphones are probably one of
• 2:41
  the
• 2:42
  first technology wearables ever invented
• 2:46
  uh the key to being successful in
• 2:48
  wearables is you have to design them so
• 2:50
  people want to wear them if people like
• 2:53
  anything else whether it be a watch
• 2:56
  glasses uh sometimes people forget that
• 2:59
  so we've been very fortunate to be very
• 3:01
  focused on that and uh it's it's still
• 3:04
  our you know still our North
• 3:06
  Star and you know I have I have my own
• 3:09
  pair of um MW 75s here in my hand and
• 3:14
  there I think since since we first met
• 3:18
  um I had the pleasure to to um use your
• 3:22
  headphones and your earphones
• 3:25
  practically every day uh so the
• 3:27
  earphones are my go-to earphones um when
• 3:29
  I have meetings and I I use them
• 3:31
  practically on every meeting and these
• 3:34
  guys I really use when I want to listen
• 3:36
  to um you know music here at the house
• 3:39
  or especially on on a plane and I can
• 3:42
  only tell um you know confirm what you
• 3:45
  said the the design aspect is just
• 3:47
  incredible the durability is incredible
• 3:49
  the sound is incredible so every time I
• 3:52
  wear them it's an experience thank you I
• 3:55
  we appreciate your uh being a longterm
• 3:58
  fan and user and uh by the way that's uh
• 4:01
  you know that's part of our our
• 4:03
  marketing strategy is when we have
• 4:06
  people like
• 4:07
  you uh using our product and being seen
• 4:10
  in public it uh it creates uh interest
• 4:13
  in the products for
• 4:15
  sure and one thing that um that I wanted
• 4:18
  to ask you also you know since you also
• 4:21
  just told us that you know as a Ser
• 4:23
  entrepreneur you did a lot of things
• 4:26
  more maybe in the consum sector and then
• 4:28
  luxury was something maybe new for you
• 4:30
  for as a category um what is for you
• 4:34
  luxury and how do you see the luxury
• 4:36
  World
• 4:38
  evolving uh what is
• 4:41
  luxury um you know I
• 4:44
  I you know I didn't uh you know I
• 4:47
  probably without knowing it I was
• 4:48
  probably a luxury
• 4:51
  consumer for a good portion of my life
• 4:54
  um it doesn't mean uh that I wanted to
• 4:58
  you know pay for the most expensive
• 5:00
  product or the most um widely
• 5:03
  distributed products I really wanted
• 5:05
  something that uh evoked some something
• 5:10
  visceral to me whether it be the
• 5:12
  materials the
• 5:15
  craftsmanship probably some of the you
• 5:17
  know the scarcity uh this concept of
• 5:21
  Discovery um uh and uh you know I think
• 5:26
  I I consider one of the things that I
• 5:28
  think about with luxury
• 5:30
  and it's what I use in my own business
• 5:33
  is the concept of effort for me I when I
• 5:38
  see the effort that goes into building
• 5:41
  or designing a product whether it be a
• 5:42
  pair of shoes sunglasses you name it
• 5:45
  that's the connection I have and I think
• 5:47
  it's probably for me it's Stronger Just
• 5:49
  because I'm a I'm a maker myself uh to
• 5:52
  me that's that's that's luxury yeah yeah
• 5:56
  I love the word I love the word effort
• 5:58
  because there is also a connection with
• 6:00
  you know typically a lot of people say
• 6:02
  it's craftsmanship or so but I think
• 6:05
  it's more than craftsmanship it's kind
• 6:06
  of the it's the
• 6:08
  intentionality of creating you know
• 6:11
  products that really matter to to people
• 6:13
  and I think this is also where the
• 6:14
  design aspect comes right yeah I think
• 6:18
  yeah no no no I was gonna say I think
• 6:21
  that there's a Nuance between
• 6:22
  craftsmanship and and effort effort I
• 6:25
  feel is in the design
• 6:29
  process of why they why did they put
• 6:31
  that there versus here why you know why
• 6:35
  why did they do this type of stitching
• 6:37
  versus something and and when that
• 6:40
  effort is also part of the functionality
• 6:43
  it really you know it it becomes very
• 6:47
  special and what is the inspiration for
• 6:49
  you since you just mentioned the design
• 6:52
  process for you and your team when you
• 6:54
  come up with for example a new headphone
• 6:57
  um how do you get the inspiration for
• 6:59
  this
• 7:01
  uh well you know I think the the in the
• 7:05
  the first products that we made um you
• 7:09
  know they were I I guess
• 7:11
  my you know I have a pretty big team by
• 7:15
  now but when I first started um it was a
• 7:19
  very small team I hired one designer
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  he's still with us uh and I sort of gave
• 7:23
  him the the general gist of what I
• 7:26
  wanted and and my I my Sensibility ility
• 7:30
  is I guess what some people would call
• 7:32
  industrial Chic I love uh I love when I
• 7:36
  can look at something and you know here
• 7:38
  I'm in Paris and I was just in
• 7:40
  London uh I for me what what I I like
• 7:44
  that sort of when I can see the history
• 7:46
  that went into something and um I can
• 7:50
  see part of the Industrial Age and then
• 7:53
  how it still exists in a in the Modern
• 7:57
  Age so you know I'm a big believer in
• 7:59
  the this idea that the future needs
• 8:02
  Heritage um and I think that's uh you
• 8:05
  know look at the look at the microphone
• 8:06
  in front of you uh you know that you're
• 8:09
  talking into that that that metal mesh
• 8:12
  that recess metal mesh um hinders back
• 8:16
  to probably the one of the some of the
• 8:17
  First
• 8:18
  microphones uh it's functional but it
• 8:21
  could also be just fabric which would
• 8:24
  completely create a different completely
• 8:26
  different you know aesthetic right
• 8:30
  yeah yeah so and I think maybe connected
• 8:33
  to this because both of all both of us
• 8:36
  share um a passion for travel and I know
• 8:40
  you are as you just mentioned you're in
• 8:41
  Paris right now and it's just been in
• 8:43
  London I'm going to Asia um tomorrow so
• 8:47
  for you when you when you travel is is
• 8:49
  travel also for you a source of
• 8:52
  inspiration and if yes kind of where do
• 8:55
  you how do you get inspiration through
• 8:57
  travel yeah it's a it's a h huge source
• 8:59
  of inspiration and it's not just in
• 9:01
  Europe it could be I go to you know a
• 9:04
  lot of different places um what is the
• 9:07
  INSP you know I I don't I never come to
• 9:11
  a city saying I want to go see that
• 9:14
  store or that museum I like to meander I
• 9:18
  like the the sense of adventure and
• 9:21
  stumbling on things um I look down a lot
• 9:26
  versus looking up meaning I see things
• 9:28
  in the street you know in the manhole
• 9:30
  covers and and in the chains uh you know
• 9:33
  that are that are align that are around
• 9:36
  this church and even the stone work um I
• 9:39
  walk a lot I run a lot and I just try
• 9:43
  and stay very um
• 9:46
  observant uh I'm constantly taking
• 9:48
  photos on my phone of things that
• 9:50
  inspire me and then going back and
• 9:53
  sketching things and um yeah I mean it's
• 9:56
  it's the it's the happiest part of my I
• 9:58
  mean a I'm a very lucky and fortunate
• 10:01
  entrepreneur but uh I always tell people
• 10:04
  the the best part of my day is when I
• 10:06
  get to to work with my product team on
• 10:09
  newer existing products or you know a
• 10:12
  lot of my travels in Europe as you know
• 10:14
  are with my collaboration partners and
• 10:16
  being able to sit with them and
• 10:18
  create uh I learn so much you know I
• 10:21
  learned so much yeah wonderful no it's
• 10:26
  it's um it just makes me reflect also on
• 10:29
  on my own travel and I think what you
• 10:31
  say is so important because for example
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  for me I always love when I'm at the
• 10:34
  airports to see for example which lugage
• 10:37
  are people using and then you know in
• 10:39
  different places in the world you see
• 10:41
  different brands different expressions
• 10:44
  in some places it's much more
• 10:45
  fashionable and other places much more
• 10:47
  functional and the same when you go to
• 10:49
  restaurants or so and I think just
• 10:51
  observing people all over the world is
• 10:54
  such a you know is so important for for
• 10:57
  what we do and to get an understand
• 10:59
  standing also for you know for Trends
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  and for for for also the differences in
• 11:04
  in culture and sometimes they can be you
• 11:06
  know two or three countries that are
• 11:08
  close to each other but somehow have a
• 11:10
  completely different way of expressing
• 11:12
  some maybe more more introspect some
• 11:15
  much more extrovert and so on so I think
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  this is so
• 11:19
  critical yep yep agreed agreed um
• 11:23
  talking about
• 11:25
  collaborations um so how how um
• 11:29
  important are collaborations for you and
• 11:32
  what makes a great collaboration because
• 11:34
  of course in the luxury industry a lot
• 11:35
  of brands are doing collaborations so so
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  tell us a little bit about your view on
• 11:41
  collaborations and maybe also your
• 11:43
  learnings uh for sure well um you know I
• 11:47
  uh I've been doing
• 11:50
  collaborations since we launched uh
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  literally in 2014 we were very fortunate
• 11:55
  to be connected with some young
• 11:57
  designers gentlemen who have had a who
• 11:59
  still have a a brand called proenza
• 12:02
  Schuler based out of New York we did
• 12:04
  some custom headphones uh people still
• 12:07
  talk about them uh and for me you know
• 12:10
  just to be candid and I'm sure other
• 12:12
  entrepreneurs share this to start of
• 12:14
  their business for me it was just about
• 12:17
  uh you know borrowing brand affinity and
• 12:20
  you know uh we were we had no rec you
• 12:22
  know we we had just launched we had zero
• 12:24
  recognition and it was borrowing uh you
• 12:27
  know their brand their brand equity and
• 12:30
  we did that quite frankly for you know I
• 12:33
  would say the first three years and did
• 12:36
  it well uh then things turned into more
• 12:40
  uh you know usually the first
• 12:43
  collaborations were were not money
• 12:45
  makers and you know were just brand
• 12:47
  building then they started to generate
• 12:50
  revenue for both parties and brand
• 12:52
  building um and you know that be now
• 12:56
  it's turned into a very big part of our
• 12:57
  business so so what is important in a
• 13:01
  collaboration one is um uh I like to
• 13:06
  work with very different companies uh I
• 13:10
  like to I believe that uh Brands it's I
• 13:13
  think you and I talked about this in the
• 13:15
  past that I think uh the brands that
• 13:18
  I've always loved in my life and still
• 13:20
  attract my attention old or new are the
• 13:23
  ones that I I say uh create holy
• 13:27
  moments things that uh you didn't expect
• 13:30
  them to do and then when you think about
• 13:31
  it you say oh that's exactly why they
• 13:33
  make sense and then you love them even
• 13:35
  more so I believe in moving around uh
• 13:39
  you know we do stuff in Street Wear we
• 13:40
  do stuff in um obviously you know uh
• 13:44
  high high
• 13:45
  luxury uh we just launched a headphone
• 13:48
  very very popular headphone with the
• 13:50
  luxury brand Seline um we do stuff in
• 13:53
  the automotive World um but but beyond
• 13:57
  that the most important thing two two
• 14:01
  probably the most important things is I
• 14:03
  learned something you know for me being
• 14:05
  able to do L collaborations with all
• 14:08
  these different types of Brands many of
• 14:09
  them in luxury it's like going to it's
• 14:12
  like getting your MBA in luxury you get
• 14:14
  to learn so much about these Brands and
• 14:17
  how they think and how they operate so
• 14:19
  it's a great place to to learn and
• 14:23
  then I think why our collaborations are
• 14:26
  very
• 14:26
  successful is we seldom just change the
• 14:31
  color of a product we seldom just slap a
• 14:34
  logo on it we
• 14:36
  really like to what I say we like to
• 14:39
  show the effort from both companies and
• 14:41
  we like to show the DNA of both
• 14:43
  companies uh and that's why they're
• 14:46
  successful not when they're just a a
• 14:49
  master Dynamic product in a different
• 14:52
  color uh you know that's not really our
• 14:55
  our our our foray uh you know that's not
• 14:58
  what we try and do
• 15:00
  yeah is there maybe one specific one
• 15:02
  that um you want to highlight that
• 15:04
  basically maybe underlines that a little
• 15:07
  bit uh well you know I think the
• 15:13
  um uh let me let me let me try and think
• 15:16
  I wasn't prepared to talk about um one
• 15:19
  in particular in some of the
• 15:20
  collaborations we don't speak about
• 15:22
  publicly even though they're public
• 15:24
  because we may not be named in that
• 15:27
  collaboration um you know I did one
• 15:30
  recently with
• 15:33
  um uh uh he's the basist for uh the band
• 15:37
  Coldplay his name is Guy
• 15:40
  Berman uh an amazing
• 15:42
  musician uh Super Creative gentleman uh
• 15:45
  who has lots of diverse interests
• 15:48
  in um fashion he has his own fashion
• 15:51
  brand he has a car magazine he's a
• 15:53
  collector of of
• 15:55
  furniture and uh and we created this
• 15:58
  first headphone which was very
• 16:00
  successful we leveraged our very iconic
• 16:03
  Master Dynamic mh40 but you know guy
• 16:07
  wanted to create something that paid
• 16:09
  homage to the Apollo era and NASA and uh
• 16:14
  we you know sourced all these different
• 16:16
  materials special materials and
• 16:18
  Fabrication and um it you know it was a
• 16:23
  great success and so you know it would
• 16:25
  have been easy for us to just change
• 16:28
  color colors but we actually really
• 16:30
  fought we we you know I wish I had the
• 16:33
  images to show you but uh but that's you
• 16:36
  know that's a that's a what I call a a
• 16:40
  uh an an a relatively easy collaboration
• 16:44
  for us and then there's others where we
• 16:46
  just create a project from scratch uh
• 16:49
  like the speaker we've the concrete
• 16:51
  speaker we did uh 35 pound concrete
• 16:55
  speaker we did uh with the ARP David AE
• 16:58
  several years ago which uh you know
• 17:01
  could be one of my favorite pieces we've
• 17:03
  ever created just because no one ever
• 17:05
  done anything like that so yeah that's
• 17:09
  that's incredible and then maybe um
• 17:12
  another topic that I found that I find
• 17:15
  fascinating in in your business um
• 17:18
  because it's a little bit different than
• 17:20
  you know maybe if you if you think about
• 17:22
  some some other luxury um categories
• 17:25
  like you know when you think about
• 17:26
  leather goods or so where you you have a
• 17:29
  lot of technology in your products or
• 17:30
  your products basically live also um
• 17:33
  apart from design from the technology
• 17:36
  side um what are maybe the the kind of
• 17:38
  specific challenges to create kind of a
• 17:42
  technology product in luxury um and what
• 17:46
  are things that you need to keep in mind
• 17:48
  when you design the in in a technology
• 17:53
  product yeah I think the I I think and
• 17:56
  we go through this a lot because we we
• 17:58
  do a lot of Technology products foreign
• 18:01
  with luxury Brands and um you know the
• 18:06
  reality is that um in my
• 18:11
  opinion uh the the buyer the consumer
• 18:14
  for a luxury audio product I'm gonna say
• 18:17
  you know in this you're saying Tech I'm
• 18:19
  obviously my all my products are
• 18:21
  technology products but
• 18:23
  they're uh the luxury consumer that and
• 18:27
  that buys our product for you know
• 18:29
  meaning with our collaborations and
• 18:30
  Luxury Partners they want I think the
• 18:33
  first thing is obviously they love the
• 18:35
  design and that design
• 18:37
  incorporates a lot of the DNA and logos
• 18:40
  from that luxury bin the second thing is
• 18:42
  they they love the materials it feels
• 18:46
  luxurious uh the third thing is that it
• 18:49
  works really well um you know
• 18:53
  consistently great Acoustics great
• 18:56
  microphones but the you know
• 18:59
  if you make a we're not trying to make a
• 19:02
  product uh that is going to be at the at
• 19:05
  the bleeding edge of newest
• 19:08
  technology um not that we not that we
• 19:10
  compromise on technology but but you
• 19:13
  know if they there's we have good data
• 19:16
  that says that the luxury cons you know
• 19:18
  anybody who's buying a $1600 pair of
• 19:22
  earphones is probably has multiple pair
• 19:25
  of airpods as well that they have a
• 19:27
  different relationship ship with are
• 19:29
  more utilitarian and and you know we are
• 19:34
  uh we're constantly sort of you know
• 19:37
  sometimes we have to educate our our new
• 19:38
  partners on this um but most of them
• 19:40
  trust us that uh you know we're still
• 19:45
  making top of the you know best-in-class
• 19:46
  products but we're not we're not talking
• 19:50
  about the technology we're not screaming
• 19:51
  the technology from the from the
• 19:53
  rooftops um I don't know if that answers
• 19:56
  the questions it's a bit it's a bit
• 19:58
  nuanced but uh um you know
• 20:02
  I yeah mhm and then if because one of
• 20:07
  the things that I noticed all the time
• 20:09
  and this is for me one of the you know
• 20:12
  was the game changer when I the F had
• 20:14
  the first time a master Dynamic um
• 20:17
  headphone over my my ears is just how
• 20:20
  amazing they sound and to me the the
• 20:23
  Acoustics is really what sets us apart
• 20:25
  and you know and then of course also the
• 20:27
  noise counseling when I'm in the
• 20:29
  or so but um the the I guess there's a
• 20:33
  lot of effort that goes in in the AC
• 20:35
  acoustic tuning and and so on so um can
• 20:39
  you tell us a little bit about that how
• 20:41
  you get to this absolute incredible
• 20:45
  sound uh you know I think I I think we I
• 20:48
  mean I I'm going to uh you know the true
• 20:52
  part of the story is that I think we
• 20:54
  just got very lucky from the start you
• 20:57
  know when I started m ason
• 20:59
  dnamic um I didn't I didn't I I had a
• 21:03
  very small team I had never built any
• 21:06
  type of audio product I had I had
• 21:08
  success and you know a lot of experience
• 21:10
  in in designing building other products
• 21:13
  um as I said I had you know two music uh
• 21:16
  uh obsessed Sons one was a DJ young
• 21:19
  music producer and I remember to this
• 21:22
  day uh we created a
• 21:24
  playlist to tune the headphones to and
• 21:28
  he would say you know this is probably
• 21:30
  20133 2014 he was uh how old then he was
• 21:35
  uh 16 years old maybe and he was
• 21:37
  probably you know was Kanye West and
• 21:40
  Jay-Z and but he also added some Philip
• 21:43
  Glass The the musical The Classic uh uh
• 21:48
  uh music uh composer uh I think being my
• 21:53
  age I added some Van Morrison and some a
• 21:57
  bunch of other people some Jazz and
• 21:59
  Blues and so what we created is this
• 22:01
  very um uh this amazing mix of genres to
• 22:05
  tune to without knowing what the hell we
• 22:07
  were doing quite frankly um and the
• 22:10
  first reviews came out and uh a lot of
• 22:13
  the reviewers said that couple things I
• 22:15
  remember is uh you know their genre
• 22:18
  agnostic which is what we wanted to
• 22:21
  create uh and I think the biggest
• 22:23
  compliment I got um very early on was
• 22:27
  from a very a very significant reviewer
• 22:29
  very revered reviewer and he said um you
• 22:33
  should be congratulated because you you
• 22:35
  realized you realize you're in the music
• 22:39
  reproduction business not the music
• 22:41
  production business and I said what does
• 22:43
  that mean and he said well you're
• 22:45
  playing the music exactly the way the
• 22:48
  artist wanted it to sound you're not
• 22:51
  changing it based on your own
• 22:53
  preferences and that's become our North
• 22:57
  Star um that's become our North Star and
• 22:59
  we don't we don't skimp on uh materials
• 23:03
  or components you know we uh we over I
• 23:07
  would I would argue that we overbuild
• 23:09
  every product we make we never we never
• 23:13
  focus on what it costs us we focus on is
• 23:17
  it something that we would be proud to
• 23:18
  put out in the
• 23:20
  market uh and I think that's why so many
• 23:23
  so much of our business and so you know
• 23:26
  is working with luxury firms or in
• 23:28
  different collaborations because they
• 23:30
  trust us to make them the best product
• 23:34
  available if you you you mentioned that
• 23:37
  um the company was founded like almost a
• 23:40
  decade ago from to from today I'm a I'm
• 23:43
  a 10y year overnight
• 23:45
  success yeah and this wonderful so if
• 23:47
  you look if you look back at the you
• 23:49
  know the the last 10 years but also as
• 23:52
  you mentioned as a maybe luxury consumer
• 23:55
  yourself what would you say are kind of
• 23:59
  the in your observations the biggest
• 24:01
  changes that you see in a luxury client
• 24:05
  today versus maybe you know when you
• 24:07
  started and maybe even you know from
• 24:09
  your observations before so what are
• 24:11
  what are kind of the changes in
• 24:12
  lifestyle and
• 24:14
  expectations and maybe behaviors and
• 24:18
  preferences of the of the of the luxury
• 24:21
  consumer
• 24:24
  mhm I I think uh you know I
• 24:29
  I H that's a good question I I um how
• 24:34
  have they
• 24:36
  it I think they want cons you know it's
• 24:39
  I'm trying to answer this in a way in a
• 24:41
  diff different way is that you know I
• 24:44
  think it's our
• 24:45
  consistency and our
• 24:47
  discipline which enables us to play at
• 24:50
  the level we do and I
• 24:53
  think and then that then you take that
• 24:56
  forward and I think the luxury consumer
• 24:58
  wants to trust the brand they don't want
• 25:01
  you know they they want to believe in
• 25:03
  the brand they don't want the brand to
• 25:05
  break what I call breaking the promise
• 25:08
  that implicit promise of why they first
• 25:10
  engage with the brand
• 25:13
  um uh yeah I don't uh it's a very good
• 25:17
  question I I I want to you know think
• 25:20
  about it again but maybe I want to hear
• 25:22
  your I mean I know this is you're
• 25:24
  supposed to be asking me questions but I
• 25:26
  I want to uh you know I love the way you
• 25:28
  think and I'm going to take the
• 25:30
  opportunity to ask you a question if
• 25:31
  that's okay the same question wonderful
• 25:34
  no and I you know maybe I built on what
• 25:36
  you said that that there there should be
• 25:38
  an element of of trust and an element of
• 25:43
  you know of a promise and I I think you
• 25:46
  have spot on we have spot on with with
• 25:48
  that because if I look at the brands
• 25:51
  that you know even if you take you know
• 25:53
  brands that have been around for 150
• 25:56
  years longer or you know 60 years or so
• 25:58
  so let's say Legacy Brands and if you
• 26:00
  look at which brands have been
• 26:02
  successful over time over decades um and
• 26:07
  which brands are kind of you know brands
• 26:10
  that are sometimes going up and then
• 26:12
  they have a phase where they go down and
• 26:13
  then they have a face again where they
• 26:15
  go up um or maybe you know even brands
• 26:18
  that are not not performing I I really
• 26:20
  think that what you said is is something
• 26:23
  that is very that is very critical um
• 26:26
  here because what I observed is if you
• 26:28
  look at let's say even the recent um you
• 26:30
  know quarter figures that have been
• 26:32
  published by some of the luxury houses
• 26:34
  there's some brands that are not doing
• 26:36
  well right now and what I observe with
• 26:39
  the brands that are
• 26:41
  underperforming is that they have done
• 26:45
  quite radical changes over the last one
• 26:47
  or two years sometimes you know they
• 26:49
  hire a new creative director then change
• 26:51
  direction um cut almost ties with the
• 26:55
  past and then the new creative director
• 26:57
  says okay now under my leadership
• 26:59
  there's a reset of the brand and the
• 27:01
  brand is now different and what you see
• 27:04
  is that the customers are then a bit
• 27:06
  confused on what the brand really stands
• 27:08
  for and I think if you see other brands
• 27:12
  um you know for me let's say for example
• 27:13
  Ms would be a great example um Chanel
• 27:16
  would be a great example and Louis VOR
• 27:18
  would be also a great example that that
• 27:20
  managed to to go through uh you know
• 27:23
  periods where they had different
• 27:26
  creative directors you know for example
• 27:27
  when think about Chanel the you know
• 27:29
  after kager Feld there was a huge
• 27:32
  question mark because he was larger than
• 27:34
  life um how would the successor treat
• 27:38
  the brand and the brand basically just
• 27:40
  continued and innovated changed certain
• 27:43
  things but was always true to their DNA
• 27:46
  and I
• 27:47
  I'm very very impressed for example also
• 27:50
  with Louis Vuitton because when you also
• 27:51
  see over the last couple of years the
• 27:53
  changes of creative directors when and
• 27:56
  then when they were really starting to
• 27:58
  disrup even internally with Virgil abau
• 28:00
  and then you know unfortunately when
• 28:02
  Virgil abau passed away then again
• 28:04
  changes and creative directors are now
• 28:06
  with frell um Williams again was a
• 28:08
  phenomenal person there but what I think
• 28:11
  what they do extremely well is each new
• 28:14
  creative director to me seemingly has a
• 28:18
  very good understanding of the DNA of
• 28:20
  the brand and I think most importantly a
• 28:23
  respect for the DNA of the brand and
• 28:26
  then they bring their own their own
• 28:28
  individuality in their own you know um
• 28:31
  cultural fit in and so on and change
• 28:34
  things up and shake things up but Still
• 28:37
  Remains the brand while some other
• 28:40
  brands um are not able really to do
• 28:43
  these transitions between let's say
• 28:46
  creative directors or creative Direction
• 28:49
  without basically going through ups and
• 28:51
  downs and I think um here this this what
• 28:53
  you said before um you know having this
• 28:56
  clear understanding of who you are
• 28:58
  is so
• 28:59
  critical yeah and I think there's
• 29:01
  another Factor here which is uh you know
• 29:05
  that you have to
• 29:06
  be disciplined you have to be patient
• 29:09
  you have to take the Long View think
• 29:11
  about uh you know uh you know let's go
• 29:15
  back in time when you know the story of
• 29:17
  Hermes right it was a saddle a Saddlery
• 29:19
  company and then you know they realized
• 29:22
  that they were selling less Saddles
• 29:23
  because there was something called an
• 29:25
  automobile and I'm sure that was a bit
• 29:27
  of a terrifying period for them uh but
• 29:30
  they stayed the course uh and they
• 29:33
  innovated and uh you know and then they
• 29:36
  went like a lot of luxury companies that
• 29:39
  were family-owned and multigenerational
• 29:41
  then they went public um and you know
• 29:45
  that sometimes can be the
• 29:47
  undoing uh of some of these of some of
• 29:50
  these luxury Brands uh you know um if
• 29:53
  you talk lvmh is public and they manage
• 29:55
  it very well um air Bez is public they
• 29:59
  do a great job Chanel is private I think
• 30:02
  quite frankly that's to their
• 30:04
  benefit uh because they can again don't
• 30:06
  have to worry about quarter to quarter
• 30:08
  um you know I think what happens you
• 30:10
  know Ferrari is public and you know uh
• 30:14
  you know from time to time the markets
• 30:17
  may not agree with the strategy and the
• 30:19
  market and the stock might uh you know
• 30:23
  um declin sometimes significantly and
• 30:27
  that's where great
• 30:29
  companies differ from the the the okay
• 30:33
  companies is they don't panic they stay
• 30:35
  the course they don't let the uh the
• 30:39
  stock price really uh um affect their
• 30:42
  business strategy and I think that's
• 30:45
  again goes back to you know what I said
• 30:47
  before discipline in luxury um
• 30:51
  consistency is really really important
• 30:54
  right yeah yeah yeah and I would also
• 30:56
  you know also reflect a bit more I can I
• 30:59
  will borrow this word that you used
• 31:01
  before about effort you know putting
• 31:03
  effort in I think this is to me also a
• 31:06
  differentiator between brands that um
• 31:09
  are consistently o performing over time
• 31:12
  and brands that you know go through the
• 31:14
  up and down because sometimes I feel
• 31:16
  like there are certain brands that kind
• 31:19
  of cut Corners so they go to you know
• 31:21
  there's a trend and they follow the
• 31:23
  trend and they see competitor doing some
• 31:25
  things then they they go they try to you
• 31:27
  know not of for fear of missing out and
• 31:29
  try to do something that this competitor
• 31:31
  is doing and by this they they kind of
• 31:35
  almost you know lose their identity of
• 31:37
  who they are and um and I think also you
• 31:41
  know when it comes to I like also very
• 31:43
  much what you said before around
• 31:45
  collaborations um where which basically
• 31:48
  where I said both both Partners have to
• 31:50
  bring themselves in and there has to be
• 31:52
  also like an intentionality in that
• 31:55
  because there's also again when you know
• 31:58
  ations now in in the luxury world are
• 32:00
  somehow the name of the game but there's
• 32:03
  again certain brands that where it feels
• 32:06
  that the collaborations almost are um
• 32:09
  kind of random and and you don't see
• 32:12
  necessarily two DNA coming together and
• 32:15
  then creating something different or
• 32:18
  something exciting but something maybe
• 32:20
  more expected and I think um you know
• 32:23
  this this kind of wow moments that you
• 32:25
  mentioned before are also so so critic
• 32:28
  but but this intentionality the effort
• 32:31
  you can basically say it's probably even
• 32:34
  goes beyond just the product but in
• 32:36
  almost everything that the brand has to
• 32:38
  do and this then comes back to what you
• 32:40
  said about the the um you know being
• 32:43
  very being very um you know consistent
• 32:47
  um and and very focused in developing
• 32:49
  the brand right right being consistent
• 32:52
  doesn't mean you can't be creative and
• 32:54
  Innovative and playful but you have
• 32:58
  to uh you know but but with with within
• 33:02
  that there has to be some type of trust
• 33:05
  and consistency from your from your your
• 33:08
  fans and your and your consumers right
• 33:11
  they they will again it's it's this
• 33:13
  concept as you that you know it's like
• 33:15
  earning the permission from the consumer
• 33:18
  right yeah um and uh and not breaking
• 33:22
  the promise so
• 33:24
  yeah and maybe one one thing that comes
• 33:27
  to my mind right now is um you know you
• 33:30
  mentioned a little bit earlier in our
• 33:32
  conversation that um you know for you
• 33:34
  it's also very important who wears your
• 33:37
  headphon so that basically the custom
• 33:41
  your custom B become this this the
• 33:43
  spokes peoples of of the brand so so I
• 33:46
  would be curious about you know when
• 33:49
  when it comes to
• 33:50
  connecting your brand with customers and
• 33:55
  getting the word out and so what are
• 33:58
  what are for you also learnings um over
• 34:00
  the last decade and maybe also some
• 34:02
  critical success factors that you can
• 34:04
  share yeah in in in basically you know
• 34:07
  marketing your brand in sense yeah I
• 34:10
  mean I just want to you know make sure
• 34:11
  people understand I I don't I don't uh
• 34:15
  uh I don't worry about who's wearing
• 34:16
  wearing my my product or not I think uh
• 34:19
  you know uh I'm very proud to have
• 34:22
  anybody wearing my product uh and
• 34:25
  usually uh the people who who make the
• 34:29
  effort to buy a product you know they
• 34:31
  there's a lot of a lot of options on the
• 34:33
  market there's a lot of you know cheaper
• 34:35
  products on the market people are making
• 34:37
  a considered purchase um and I you know
• 34:41
  I did an exp I did something you know
• 34:44
  sort of it wasn't really scientific but
• 34:47
  back you know I think uh almost when we
• 34:50
  around the time we launched one of our
• 34:52
  our um our our trademarks was and we we
• 34:56
  talked about a lot was we called it
• 34:58
  sound tools for Creative Minds M that
• 35:02
  was our probably our first campaign and
• 35:05
  brand positioning and as I would travel
• 35:07
  around New York City or in in different
• 35:11
  cities and I would see somebody wearing
• 35:14
  my headphones I would stop them I
• 35:17
  wouldn't tell them who I was and I'd say
• 35:19
  something to the effect of like and a
• 35:22
  lot of times I'd have to signal for them
• 35:23
  to take them off so they could hear me
• 35:25
  and I'd say uh hey uh those those are
• 35:29
  great headphones whose are they and they
• 35:31
  say master and dynamic and I he's like
• 35:33
  oh it's this cool brand called Master
• 35:35
  Dynamic like oh where'd you get them and
• 35:36
  they tell me where they bought them I
• 35:37
  said what do you think of them and they
• 35:39
  said oh they're amazing and then I'd ask
• 35:42
  them this last question which uh they um
• 35:46
  uh you know they always would look at me
• 35:49
  a little bit strange at first and they'd
• 35:50
  say I say and what do you do for a
• 35:52
  living and uh and then they would tell
• 35:56
  me and I would say I'm the I would pull
• 36:00
  out my business card I say thank you
• 36:02
  it's my company and it was always a big
• 36:04
  surprise and and I would stay in touch
• 36:06
  with lot of people that's a long way of
• 36:08
  saying that that the majority of the
• 36:11
  people I asked that question to were in
• 36:15
  Creative
• 36:16
  Fields they were artists they were
• 36:20
  designers uh it was very interesting it
• 36:23
  was very Architects it was very
• 36:26
  interesting to see so
• 36:29
  um
• 36:31
  uh you know and that just helps you know
• 36:33
  that just helps promote the brand I mean
• 36:35
  it's really I I truly believe in in Word
• 36:38
  of Mouth and and uh you know when you
• 36:41
  see somebody uh on the street wearing
• 36:44
  something different and they have a
• 36:46
  certain way about them or look about
• 36:48
  them you always take a double take
• 36:51
  yeah yeah yeah yeah and how important is
• 36:56
  for for master Dynamic social
• 37:01
  media um we do our own social should
• 37:05
  well I'll tell you uh it's important we
• 37:09
  don't stress over it um we we are very
• 37:14
  very fortunate that we get
• 37:16
  more uh again through our collaborations
• 37:19
  when our partners who are much bigger in
• 37:21
  size do have much bigger FS when they
• 37:23
  post it's it's amazing shot in the arm
• 37:26
  um are social media is uh if you were to
• 37:31
  go on our on on mic.com at memic on
• 37:36
  Instagram right now you would not see
• 37:38
  any celebrities we don't use celebrities
• 37:41
  as a rule um we do have a lot of
• 37:44
  celebrities and influencers and
• 37:45
  musicians who wear our product if
• 37:48
  they're
• 37:49
  photographed we we thank them uh if uh
• 37:55
  uh if they've posted we thank them but
• 37:58
  we never
• 37:59
  repost we just uh we treat it with
• 38:04
  um
• 38:06
  uh you know you know I think it's what I
• 38:09
  would call quiet luxury be before there
• 38:11
  was a term quiet luxury we were sort of
• 38:13
  just you know I think I think there's
• 38:15
  been a Tipping Point in fashion and
• 38:17
  luxury where there's almost over
• 38:19
  promotion with celebrities and uh we
• 38:23
  just don't want to we just that's not
• 38:24
  our thing we let our product speak for
• 38:26
  itself
• 38:28
  I I love that because to me it signals
• 38:30
  also a very strong self-confidence of
• 38:33
  the of the brand and I feel sometimes
• 38:36
  when I see brands that are overusing
• 38:39
  celebrities or almost like depending on
• 38:42
  celebrities it to me in today's world
• 38:45
  feels almost a bit like you know you
• 38:47
  almost beg for the acceptance um or for
• 38:52
  for the celebrity to um to endorse you
• 38:56
  and that for me takes a bit of way way
• 38:58
  of like confidence of the brand I love
• 39:00
  that approach maybe my my to conclude
• 39:04
  our our conversation um I would be very
• 39:06
  curious where you see the future of
• 39:09
  luxury and I know it's a big question
• 39:11
  but what are like things that you see
• 39:13
  Trends and and so on where you where you
• 39:15
  think the future of luxury is going to
• 39:18
  go I think
• 39:21
  um I well I mean I'll go back to effort
• 39:25
  and discipline
• 39:27
  um I think what you're going to see is
• 39:35
  um is luxury
• 39:39
  Brands
• 39:41
  uh probably creating um higher you know
• 39:45
  continuing to to push higher and higher
• 39:47
  in price
• 39:48
  points um not to gouge the consumer but
• 39:52
  to just to create products that that of
• 39:55
  higher value um um and
• 40:00
  probably create fewer overall
• 40:03
  products um and I think
• 40:07
  that's that's something I plan on doing
• 40:09
  at Master
• 40:10
  Dynamic um uh uh you know I don't want
• 40:14
  to fill landfills with with uh lots of
• 40:19
  uh you know headphones and and batteries
• 40:21
  I we care about that but I also think I
• 40:24
  I think um we're at a Tipping Point in
• 40:27
  terms of longevity and I think people
• 40:32
  want uh you know there's a lot of wealth
• 40:34
  in this world and you don't necessarily
• 40:36
  have to be extremely wealthy to be a
• 40:37
  luxury consumer but I think
• 40:40
  people are going to um there's a trend
• 40:43
  to wanting fewer but better things in
• 40:46
  your
• 40:47
  life wonderful I think this is an
• 40:49
  amazing conclusion and Jonathan thank
• 40:52
  you so much for being on on this podcast
• 40:54
  and taking the time out of your busy
• 40:56
  schedule to to be with us I thought it
• 40:58
  was a fantastic conversation I learned a
• 41:00
  lot and likewise likewise yeah thank you
• 41:04
  and tomorrow when I be on my next flight
• 41:07
  I will have these guys on again all
• 41:09
  right safe travels Daniel good speaking
• 41:11
  with you bye bye byebye thank you so
• 41:14
  much bye bye byebye
• 41:19
  [Music]