Latest / Pod Save America / “Trump’s Covid World Tour.”

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“Trump’s Covid World Tour.” · Pod Save America

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court has had a busy summer loosening gun
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Speaker 1: restrictions in states, overturning Roe v. Wade, and severely threatening
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Speaker 1: our Miranda rights. I'm Leah Lippman, and each week on
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Speaker 1: Strict Scrutiny, I'm joined by my co-hosts and fellow law professors,
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Speaker 1: Melissa Murray and Kate Shaw, to break down the latest
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Speaker 1: headlines and the biggest legal questions facing our country. It's
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Speaker 1: more important than ever to understand the repercussions of these
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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decisions and what we can do to fight
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Speaker 1: back in the upcoming midterm elections. Listen to new episodes
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Speaker 1: of Strict Scrutiny every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.
0:49
Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:51
Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
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Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vietor.
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Speaker 2: On today's show, Democrats and journalists still haven't figured out
0:55
Speaker 2: how to handle the threat of another Trump presidency. Senator
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Speaker 2: Chris Murphy joins to talk about whether Joe Biden's economic
1:00
Speaker 2: agenda can pass by Christmas. And the White House announces
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Speaker 2: a diplomatic boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing.
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Speaker 2: But first, if you're still looking for last-minute holiday gifts,
1:11
Speaker 2: check out all of our holiday merch at the Crooked Store,
1:14
Speaker 2: including our Santa My Ho-Ho Home is Melting ornament. Yeah,
1:20
Speaker 2: when you say it. It's a little differently, doesn't it?
1:22
Speaker 4: It's better. It's funny to read.
1:24
Speaker 2: It's a little different. We also got some Yes We
1:26
Speaker 2: Dan t-shirts and mugs. Those are flying off the virtual shelves.
1:29
Speaker 3: Sweatshirts, too.
1:30
Speaker 2: Wait, there's a sweatshirt?
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Speaker 3: I believe there's a Yes We Dan sweatshirt.
1:32
Speaker 2: If there's a Yes We Dan sweatshirt, I'm wearing it tomorrow.
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Speaker 4: I wore the t-shirt two days ago.
1:37
Speaker 2: Anyway, make sure to place your orders by December 11th
1:41
Speaker 2: to ensure holiday delivery. Head to kirken.com slash store. All right,
1:46
Speaker 2: let's get to the news. The frontrunner for the 2024
1:49
Speaker 2: Republican nomination is back in the headlines for knowingly exposing
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Speaker 2: hundreds to a deadly virus and laying the groundwork to
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Speaker 2: steal the next election in the event that he loses it.
1:57
Speaker 2: A new Washington Post report says that from the day
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Speaker 2: that Donald Trump first tested positive for COVID and started
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Speaker 2: feeling sick until he was hospitalized a week later, he
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Speaker 2: came in contact with more than 500 people. 500 people.
2:12
Speaker 2: Trump responded by saying, quote, Biden goes around coughing on
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Speaker 2: people all over the place, and yet the corrupt news
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Speaker 2: doesn't even cover it.
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Speaker 4: That's pretty good. Credible credit is due. That is such
2:23
Speaker 4: a funny I'm rubber, you're glue statement. It's a bias.
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Speaker 2: And then he added in at the end, just for
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Speaker 2: good measure, probably because he's not supposed to be in
2:30
Speaker 2: office in the first place. Again, it doesn't make any sense,
2:32
Speaker 2: but he had to add it in.
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Speaker 4: Message discipline.
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Speaker 5: Right.
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Speaker 2: But alas, a new analysis from the Washington Post's Dana
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Speaker 2: Milbank found that Joe Biden's press coverage for the past
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Speaker 2: four months has been as bad as, and for a time,
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Speaker 2: worse than, the coverage that Donald Trump received for the
2:46
Speaker 2: same four months in 2020.
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Speaker 3: I mean, in fairness to the press corps, maybe they
2:51
Speaker 3: thought it was cool when Trump tried to kill Michael
2:53
Speaker 3: Scheer on the plane.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: He tried to kill all of them. He only succeeded
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Speaker 4: in wounding one.
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Speaker 3: He really murked Michael Scheer.
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Speaker 2: Milbank went on to write, so while Trump's allies are
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Speaker 2: busy trying to give Republican legislatures control of elections in
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Speaker 2: states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, and Georgia right now, Milbank wrote, quote,
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Speaker 2: My colleagues in the media are serving as accessories to
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Speaker 2: the murder of democracy. So very understated there. Lots to
3:21
Speaker 2: unpack here. So Dan and I touched on this story
3:23
Speaker 2: about Trump and COVID last week briefly, but Ashley Parker
3:27
Speaker 2: and Josh Dossi at The Post did a pretty great
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Speaker 2: job laying out just how many people he knowingly exposed
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Speaker 2: to a virus that nearly killed him. I saw a
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Speaker 2: few reactions to this that were some version of, why
3:38
Speaker 2: does this matter now? Or like, It doesn't matter. He's
3:42
Speaker 2: going to get away with it. What do you guys think?
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Speaker 3: We can get to that. We can get to all that.
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Speaker 3: And I have to say, like when I first saw
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Speaker 3: the story, yeah, we can get to what does it mean?
3:52
Speaker 3: How does it help us in the midterms, I suppose.
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Speaker 3: When I first saw the headline that Mark Meadows was
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Speaker 3: too stupid to realize he was revealing something incredibly damning
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Speaker 3: in his book and that Trump had had a positive
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Speaker 3: test days before the debate. I had the same sort
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Speaker 3: of instinctive reaction, which is I honestly, I can't, I
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Speaker 3: can't get back in that water. You know what I mean?
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Speaker 3: I just can't get myself to go back into that
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Speaker 3: inky black Trump personality disorder water. And then I saw the, the,
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Speaker 3: the post piece and I started reading it and, It
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Speaker 3: is one of the more galling pieces of journalism I've
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Speaker 3: ever consumed. Not only did he go across the country
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Speaker 3: on a fucking COVID spreading world tour, every person he
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Speaker 3: infected became a person he later blamed for infecting him
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Speaker 3: one by one. He's like, I'm going to go give
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Speaker 3: it to some veterans, those dirty veterans who probably gave
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Speaker 3: it right back to me.
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Speaker 4: Gold star families, the parents of veterans who were killed
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Speaker 4: in action.
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Speaker 3: And he blamed them for it. He blamed them for it.
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Speaker 3: And the other piece of this, too, is Mark Meadows
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Speaker 3: says that Trump was sick. when he got that first
5:00
Speaker 3: positive result.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw he was sick. He was sick the
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Speaker 2: whole fucking week.
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Speaker 3: And then Mark Meadows, almost as a joke, as like
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Speaker 3: his bronze hue had returned before the debate.
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Speaker 4: Did you think that was a joke?
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Speaker 3: That comes in a fucking can. That doesn't cure COVID,
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Speaker 3: you fucking assholes. It is genuine fucking evil. It is evil.
5:18
Speaker 3: And I thought about the Dana Milbank piece too, because
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Speaker 3: you have people like Ryan Lizza, who took some shit
5:24
Speaker 3: from Milbank in that post about Politico's headlines being... too
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Speaker 3: favorable towards Trump, too neutral, whatever. And it's like, oh,
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Speaker 3: you're arguing on points. You're being neutral to both Biden
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Speaker 3: and Trump. Trump tried to fucking kill half the press
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Speaker 3: corps and then for good measure, tried to take some
5:39
Speaker 3: grieving families with him. Chris Christie was so sick.
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Speaker 4: He had a priest rubbing oil in the shape of
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Speaker 4: a cross on his forehead. First of all, how do
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Speaker 4: you get that job if you're a priest? Is that
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Speaker 4: the last rites?
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Speaker 2: That's what priests do, guys.
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Speaker 4: Is that the last rites? Not when there's a deadly pandemic.
5:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's maybe. Hopefully he was wearing protection. But anyway.
5:57
Speaker 2: But anyway.
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Speaker 4: He was wearing protection around his fucking collar, John. I'm
6:02
Speaker 4: not doing that for Christy. They got protection right here.
6:05
Speaker 2: So, I know. I love it. I had the same.
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Speaker 2: Go ahead.
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Speaker 5: Go ahead, Tommy. Sorry.
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Speaker 4: No, I just... I second what you said. Trump is bad.
6:16
Speaker 2: Trump is bad.
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Speaker 4: I think the broader like the political point is Biden
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Speaker 4: was sort of like asked about this and he's like,
6:21
Speaker 4: I don't think about Trump. And I get the instinct
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Speaker 4: of not engaging with Trump every day and getting in
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Speaker 4: a colloquy with this former lunatic who's just like stomping
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Speaker 4: around Mar-a-Lago giving angry speeches at weddings about like the
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Speaker 4: press corps or whatever. But I do think he has
6:35
Speaker 4: to recognize that Trump is running against him every single day.
6:38
Speaker 4: He is putting out a message that is anti-Biden every
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Speaker 4: single day, whether it's that he stole the election or
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Speaker 4: that he's too old or that he's doing badly on
6:45
Speaker 4: the job. And at some point, you have to respond.
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Speaker 4: And I just wish Biden had said putting Gold Star
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Speaker 4: families at risk of dying after all they've been through
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Speaker 4: because you're too fucking selfish to admit you got COVID
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Speaker 4: and maybe cancel a debate is one of the worst
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Speaker 4: things I've ever heard and why you should never be
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Speaker 4: president again. That's a pretty... That's an easy, understandable message.
7:05
Speaker 3: Pick a fight. Now you want him to get down
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Speaker 3: in the muck.
7:08
Speaker 4: That was great. I like that. That would have been
7:09
Speaker 4: better than whoopsie doodle.
7:12
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't think about the former president. First
7:14
Speaker 2: of all, everyone, please stop calling him the fucking former guy.
7:16
Speaker 2: Just fucking stop it. Like, here's the thing. This is
7:18
Speaker 2: not like Obama talking about Bush or Trump talking about Obama.
7:23
Speaker 2: This is not someone in the past who's gone. If
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Speaker 2: Trump says tomorrow he's not running again, I completely agree.
7:28
Speaker 2: We should never talk about it again. Let's put him
7:29
Speaker 2: out of our mind. Let's drop it. That is not
7:32
Speaker 2: the case, unfortunately, right now. But put all politics aside. Like,
7:36
Speaker 2: try to think about this story not from the perspective
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Speaker 2: of Biden, Trump, politics, who's going to whatever. Think if
7:42
Speaker 2: you knew someone in your life who knew they had
7:45
Speaker 2: COVID and then came in contact with 500 people. This
7:49
Speaker 2: was before the vaccines. Before the vaccines. This is when
7:52
Speaker 2: it was a deadly virus killing, well, it still is
7:54
Speaker 2: a deadly virus killing thousands of people every day. A
7:56
Speaker 2: lot of them unvaccinated. Most of them unvaccinated. But like,
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Speaker 2: What a fucking awful human being. Truly. Forget about the
8:02
Speaker 2: politics part of it. Just someone in your life who
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Speaker 2: did that. You would never talk to that person again.
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Speaker 3: And that is why it's sort of like, oh, you know,
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Speaker 3: they're quibbling. Like, first of all, if you would have
8:11
Speaker 3: said 10 years ago, like, it's interesting who got sorted
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Speaker 3: into the I'm just going to treat Trump as normal
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Speaker 3: category and who fucking... took out a flaming sword and
8:19
Speaker 3: joined the resistance. It's like, Hey, here's Jennifer Rubin and
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Speaker 3: Dana Milbank.
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Speaker 4: Weird, weird shit, but whatever. It was a good piece.
8:26
Speaker 4: It was a good piece.
8:26
Speaker 3: Cause it was honest.
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Speaker 4: I think that, so like jumping to the Dana Milbank piece,
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Speaker 4: I think what people need to know, he's a Washington
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Speaker 4: post columnist and, He is someone who, I don't know
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Speaker 4: his politics, but he has written some of the most
8:36
Speaker 4: scathing takedowns of elected officials I've ever read in my life.
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Speaker 4: Both parties. Both parties. One time I ran into him
8:42
Speaker 4: trolling around the Senate parking garage because he was looking
8:46
Speaker 4: to see who was hypocritical when it came to cafe standards.
8:48
Speaker 4: That was the kind of reporting he did. And for
8:50
Speaker 4: him to come out and write this big piece about
8:52
Speaker 4: how the media is being too hard on a candidate
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Speaker 4: was completely out of character and suggested that he read
8:58
Speaker 4: something that actually bothered him.
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Speaker 2: What did you guys think of the analysis? It was
9:03
Speaker 2: It was shared widely. A lot of people talking about
9:05
Speaker 2: Ron Klain, White House chief of staff, shared it. As
9:08
Speaker 2: you pointed out, love it. Some Politico reporters, particularly Ryan Lizza,
9:12
Speaker 2: pretty angry because he started off by rightly calling out
9:15
Speaker 2: Politico playbook as trash, which other Politico reporters think as well,
9:22
Speaker 2: as well as other reporters at other outlets. But anyway,
9:24
Speaker 2: what did you think about sort of the analysis and
9:26
Speaker 2: the piece?
9:28
Speaker 3: I think it kind of goes back to the same,
9:30
Speaker 3: we're back in the same rhythm we were in in 2016,
9:33
Speaker 3: where a lot of the issues was not about, is
9:36
Speaker 3: Trump getting bad coverage? Trump was getting plenty of bad coverage,
9:39
Speaker 3: but there's this instinct, there's this need to then make
9:42
Speaker 3: sure the coverage is reciprocal, that the Democrats are covered
9:46
Speaker 3: with the same degree of harshness. And you can quibble
9:49
Speaker 3: with the methodology, quibble with any kind of survey that
9:52
Speaker 3: involves applying a number of Yeah, we should.
9:55
Speaker 2: Talk about how they did it. He basically used like
9:57
Speaker 2: some AI.
9:58
Speaker 4: It's code, you know, they code had and get a
10:01
Speaker 4: sentiment measuring system of a huge bunch of articles. And
10:04
Speaker 4: they get a score.
10:05
Speaker 3: And I'm sure there's plenty of reasons to argue with it.
10:07
Speaker 3: But like, fundamentally, even the point Ryan Liz and make
10:09
Speaker 3: was actually, if you look at the numbers, we were
10:11
Speaker 3: pretty neutral on both. And it's like, Well, if you're
10:14
Speaker 3: neutral on a normal politician who is by no means perfect,
10:18
Speaker 3: but is aiming to do good for the country and
10:20
Speaker 3: maybe has progressive biases and doesn't always see Republicans on
10:23
Speaker 3: the level, whatever it may be. And then the other
10:25
Speaker 3: one is a fucking authoritarian COVID super spreader trying to
10:30
Speaker 3: destroy our country from within, activating the worst instincts of
10:34
Speaker 3: human beings at their most base and kind of aggrieved level.
10:37
Speaker 3: And you're like, I'm going to give them both a
10:40
Speaker 3: Three out of five.
10:41
Speaker 4: Like that sucks. That's bullshit. Chris Christie is getting an
10:44
Speaker 4: oil cross rubbed on his forehead by a priest and
10:47
Speaker 4: Trump called him to say, you're not going to blame
10:49
Speaker 4: me for this.
10:49
Speaker 5: Sorry.
10:50
Speaker 4: That really happened. It's in Christie's book. I read Milbank
10:53
Speaker 4: saying I thought it was worth reading. It was interesting. I, too,
10:56
Speaker 4: am surprised that Politico playbook has decided to adopt like
10:59
Speaker 4: a New York Post tone. I don't think that's sort
11:01
Speaker 4: of what that outlet used to be. And I don't
11:03
Speaker 4: think it's very good. But more broadly, I think every
11:06
Speaker 4: administration in the history of White Houses has thought their
11:08
Speaker 4: coverage was too mean. So setting that aside. But I
11:12
Speaker 4: think what sucks about working in politics is that the
11:15
Speaker 4: coverage is so reductive. So when you have a headline,
11:19
Speaker 4: like the headline will say Biden fails to pass spending
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Speaker 4: agenda or whatever, and it never really digs into the
11:24
Speaker 4: reasons why, which is that Republicans are blocking everything, right?
11:27
Speaker 4: Biden fails to stop the pandemic. Well, the main reason
11:30
Speaker 4: seems to be that one party is turned into the
11:32
Speaker 4: anti-vaxxer party and is doing everything possible to sabotage that effort.
11:35
Speaker 4: And that's unbelievably frustrating because it means that cynicism works
11:40
Speaker 4: and that like the Mitch McConnell's of the world stealing
11:42
Speaker 4: Supreme Court seats and gumming up everything. It's an effective tactic.
11:47
Speaker 4: And like, yes, Democrats do that too. We obstruct things
11:49
Speaker 4: as well, but we've never gone as far as they have.
11:52
Speaker 4: And I think that's sort of like my general frustration
11:55
Speaker 4: with DC political coverage. I think Milban kind of blended
11:59
Speaker 4: a different critique with that one, which is about this
12:02
Speaker 4: ongoing threat to democracy itself. And I think that's an important,
12:06
Speaker 4: much more important, but kind of separate point than like
12:09
Speaker 4: the sentiment of the coverage towards Joe Biden.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's why this is different, right? Because
12:15
Speaker 2: I actually don't think that the Biden administration has received
12:18
Speaker 2: any worse coverage than we did, than the Obama administration did,
12:23
Speaker 2: putting political playbook aside, which again is particularly bad. But
12:27
Speaker 2: I think the rest of the mainstream media, I think
12:29
Speaker 2: it's pretty close to what we have. And it's just,
12:31
Speaker 2: mainstream media has a bias towards negativity and conflict and
12:37
Speaker 2: overhyping bad news. And they have all thought since Watergate
12:41
Speaker 2: that their main job is to criticize and take down
12:44
Speaker 2: people in power. And, you know, and that's what they
12:49
Speaker 2: do all the time. And look, I also think a
12:51
Speaker 2: lot of them were appropriately tough on Trump when Trump
12:55
Speaker 2: was president. And now they're trying to overcorrect because what
12:58
Speaker 2: they're more petrified of than anything else is being accused
13:01
Speaker 2: of liberal bias.
13:02
Speaker 4: Right.
13:02
Speaker 2: So that's all going on. But the reason this is
13:04
Speaker 2: so different than your normal administration, Democrat or Republican complaining
13:08
Speaker 2: about its press coverage is because of this threat to
13:11
Speaker 2: democracy from Trump. That's what makes it different than what
13:15
Speaker 2: we've had before.
13:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. Look, you know, one thing
13:19
Speaker 3: that Milbank points out in the piece, I mean, we've
13:20
Speaker 3: said a lot in the past, which is, you know,
13:22
Speaker 3: we need partisans for democracy and what makes journalists really uncomfortable.
13:26
Speaker 3: it's not the, I feel like the idea of like, oh,
13:29
Speaker 3: there's a liberal bias. Now we think there's a conservative bias.
13:32
Speaker 3: It's almost beside the point. Like it's, to Tommy's point,
13:36
Speaker 3: to your point, right? It's like, it's not about finding
13:38
Speaker 3: this like perfect balance in terms of the coverage of
13:41
Speaker 3: Trump versus the cover of Biden. That all presumes a
13:43
Speaker 3: kind of normal politics where they're playing the form of
13:45
Speaker 3: a ref between two teams. What makes, I think, a
13:48
Speaker 3: lot of political journalists the most uncomfortable is not being
13:50
Speaker 3: told that their coverage is skewing one way or another,
13:53
Speaker 3: but it's being told by us, and I think correctly, hey,
13:56
Speaker 3: I have really bad news. You're no longer a ref
13:58
Speaker 3: between two teams. You're on a fucking team. You're on
14:01
Speaker 3: the team of the liberal order, small L liberal order,
14:04
Speaker 3: in which people come together and make decisions based on
14:07
Speaker 3: consensus and shared facts and shared information that violence is
14:11
Speaker 3: never the answer in a democratic system, that if you
14:15
Speaker 3: lose an election, that that is a reasonable outcome that
14:17
Speaker 3: should be accepted. And being told that actually you're now
14:21
Speaker 3: part of a team arguing against this force that's outside
14:24
Speaker 3: of it trying to make you irrelevant is very hard
14:27
Speaker 3: for them to accept.
14:27
Speaker 2: Well, no one's saying you have to be on the
14:29
Speaker 2: Democratic team. Exactly. You don't have to have our positions
14:31
Speaker 2: on health care or anything else like that. But like,
14:34
Speaker 2: you know, if Donald Trump wins again, it's not gonna
14:36
Speaker 2: be too great for the press. He just called them
14:38
Speaker 2: all crooked bastards at a speech Saturday night at Mar-a-Lago.
14:41
Speaker 4: Like a wedding at Mar-a-Lago.
14:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was going off.
14:44
Speaker 3: It was like the Elks Club or whatever.
14:47
Speaker 4: Can I pitch a theory?
14:48
Speaker 5: Please. Yeah, sure.
14:49
Speaker 4: I think alliteration is worth negative three points to Democrats
14:52
Speaker 4: because Democrats in disarray is just, it's so fun to say.
14:55
Speaker 1: Okay.
14:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a good put that in.
14:57
Speaker 4: Can we quantify that with some AI?
14:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's AI that. Let's get big blue on that.
15:01
Speaker 3: Let's get Watson on that.
15:04
Speaker 2: I will say that I think Trump, especially towards the
15:07
Speaker 2: end of his term, actually got the right tone of
15:10
Speaker 2: coverage from the press. I think right now there's a
15:13
Speaker 2: problem and not that they're being too soft on Trump.
15:16
Speaker 2: It's that they're not actually covering Trump enough. And I
15:19
Speaker 2: think part of the reason is not necessarily a fault
15:21
Speaker 2: of their own. He's off Twitter, so we don't hear
15:23
Speaker 2: about him all the time. But I think that like
15:26
Speaker 2: I'm worried that people are not taking the threat of
15:29
Speaker 2: another Trump term seriously. Seriously enough and we're not hearing
15:32
Speaker 2: about it enough like part of me is like maybe
15:34
Speaker 2: he should get back on Twitter Just so we can
15:36
Speaker 2: tell careful what you wish for I.
15:38
Speaker 3: Realize what you're making which is that Kamala Harris was
15:42
Speaker 3: wrong and that it's actually been really bad for the
15:44
Speaker 3: country to not have Trump on Twitter I think is
15:45
Speaker 3: really an interesting one.
15:46
Speaker 4: That's not my view.
15:48
Speaker 3: That is I want everyone to know that that's not.
15:49
Speaker 2: My view All right.
15:50
Speaker 4: For once.
15:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:51
Speaker 2: But I do. But, you know, the whole don't amplify him,
15:54
Speaker 2: don't talk about him. It just it bothers me only
15:57
Speaker 2: because he is not in the past. He is the
15:59
Speaker 2: front runner for the Republican nomination. And we should be
16:01
Speaker 2: talking the whole like.
16:02
Speaker 4: Don't amplify him thing. It's like Fox News is amplifying him.
16:05
Speaker 4: Sinclair News is amplifying him. Facebook, right wing radio, like
16:08
Speaker 4: they're all talking about him.
16:09
Speaker 2: It's out there.
16:10
Speaker 4: Can we just pause for one minute, though, and just
16:12
Speaker 4: talk about, again, how funny it is. that Mark Meadows
16:15
Speaker 4: disclosed like the biggest coverup of the entire administration. He
16:18
Speaker 4: just put it in his book and then he called
16:19
Speaker 4: his own book fake news during an interview. I mean,
16:23
Speaker 4: he's so stupid. Also the debate commission, just letting the
16:26
Speaker 4: schlub stroll in and not take a COVID test is,
16:29
Speaker 4: is what were they doing?
16:31
Speaker 3: That was one reason I do think this is kind
16:33
Speaker 3: of important is I do. I do. One thing you
16:35
Speaker 3: see in that story in so many ways is how
16:38
Speaker 3: many different organizations and institutions from the press to the
16:42
Speaker 3: debate commission, to even the, the, the, the kind of
16:45
Speaker 3: non-political parts of how the white house runs were kind
16:48
Speaker 3: of bullied by this person.
16:49
Speaker 4: Bullied by these people like that, that.
16:51
Speaker 3: People are so afraid to make a scene, so afraid
16:54
Speaker 3: to assert their power, whether it's Chris Wallace at that debate, uh,
16:58
Speaker 3: whether it's the kind of sycophants and weaklings and little
17:00
Speaker 3: quizlings around Trump, like little fucking evil, little sycophants being like, yes, sir.
17:04
Speaker 5: Yeah.
17:04
Speaker 3: Take your COVID to the fucking gold star families.
17:07
Speaker 2: Good, good, good.
17:07
Speaker 4: Yes.
17:08
Speaker 5: Yes. Yeah.
17:08
Speaker 4: Mark Meadows, Mark Meadows.
17:09
Speaker 3: But, but.
17:11
Speaker 4: Get out of here.
17:12
Speaker 3: You're not well. You have to take a test and
17:14
Speaker 3: you have to have a mask on to be in
17:15
Speaker 3: this room. Unfortunately, we have to have a security to
17:16
Speaker 3: escort you out. I know you're Ivanka Trump, but that
17:18
Speaker 3: doesn't matter because this is America. And the fact that you're.
17:21
Speaker 3: last name, earns you the right to come in here,
17:23
Speaker 3: shouldn't stop you from following the rules.
17:24
Speaker 2: Look, hopefully they'll tighten things up by the first debate
17:27
Speaker 2: in 2024 to protect Joe Biden against the Zeta variant
17:31
Speaker 2: that Trump will be carrying.
17:32
Speaker 4: When Chris Christie is once again running debate prep, despite
17:35
Speaker 4: the fact that Trump almost killed him.
17:36
Speaker 2: When he's back on board.
17:37
Speaker 4: Listen, I enjoy his quotes that are anti-Trump, and I
17:40
Speaker 4: would love to see them actually get spoken on outlets
17:43
Speaker 4: that Republicans listen to. But so far, it's a little
17:46
Speaker 4: MSNBC tour that's probably not too much work.
17:48
Speaker 2: One thing the press should be covering is Trump's attempt
17:50
Speaker 2: to steal the next election. There's a new report this
17:52
Speaker 2: week that Trump's allies are plotting ballot measures in Wisconsin
17:55
Speaker 2: and Michigan that would bypass the state's Democratic governors to
17:57
Speaker 2: give Republican legislatures control of elections. In Georgia, former Senator
18:02
Speaker 2: David Perdue announced a primary challenge to Governor Brian Kemp,
18:05
Speaker 2: saying that he and Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger
18:07
Speaker 2: are to blame for not protecting Georgia's elections.
18:11
Speaker 4: And he blamed Kemp for an election that he lost. Perdue.
18:16
Speaker 4: It's just very funny.
18:18
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. And also like running to the right of
18:22
Speaker 2: Brian Kemp. Like what? There's no space. Yeah, there's no
18:25
Speaker 2: space there. The space is he didn't overturn the election
18:28
Speaker 2: and I will. That's the space. That's the only issue.
18:31
Speaker 2: The potentially good news here is that the New York
18:32
Speaker 2: Times has reported Democrats and Republicans on the January 6th
18:35
Speaker 2: elect committee want to pass legislation that reforms the Electoral
18:39
Speaker 2: Count Act of 1887. What would that do? And would
18:42
Speaker 2: it be enough to prevent election subversion in 2024?
18:45
Speaker 4: I mean, I obviously did the reading on this and
18:47
Speaker 4: have a great handle on it, but I just kind
18:49
Speaker 4: of want to know what you think.
18:50
Speaker 5: Yeah, I want to.
18:50
Speaker 2: Know what you think.
18:55
Speaker 5: Okay.
18:55
Speaker 4: Let's see if he's right, Tommy.
18:56
Speaker 2: Here's the potential changes they're talking about on the Electoral
18:59
Speaker 2: Count Act of 1887. One, limiting grounds for a lawmaker
19:03
Speaker 2: objecting to counting a state's vote. So maybe you can't
19:06
Speaker 2: get fucking Hawley and Cruz to do their bullshit again.
19:08
Speaker 4: You got that one.
19:09
Speaker 2: Two, clarifying the vice president's role. So no one's yelling
19:15
Speaker 2: for Mike Pence to be hung again.
19:16
Speaker 3: Not Viceroy Supreme overseeing whether or not we're a democracy.
19:21
Speaker 2: And then three clearer time limits for states to choose
19:24
Speaker 2: electors is the three things. Seems like some good ideas.
19:27
Speaker 2: Seems like some good ideas. Who's on board? Liz Cheney,
19:31
Speaker 2: Adam Kinzinger, are Republicans in the House on board because
19:33
Speaker 2: they're on the committee? And apparently the Times reports a
19:36
Speaker 2: bipartisan coalition of state and local lawmakers. I do think
19:41
Speaker 2: This is important on the margins where it usually isn't
19:43
Speaker 2: because this, of course, then goes to the Senate. And
19:47
Speaker 2: do you have do you find 10 Republicans who may
19:50
Speaker 2: they weren't interested in H.R. one or democracy reform, whatever
19:52
Speaker 2: the latest iteration is? But on this narrow thing, they're
19:55
Speaker 2: willing to join in. Who knows? I do think there's
19:58
Speaker 2: one huge thing missing here that I don't know if
20:00
Speaker 2: federal legislation can fix, which is the greatest threat to
20:03
Speaker 2: election subversion in twenty twenty four is Republican state legislatures.
20:08
Speaker 2: The real danger here is And, you know, Barton Gelman
20:10
Speaker 2: wrote another very, very long Atlantic piece today.
20:13
Speaker 3: We're always commenting on the length of these pieces.
20:15
Speaker 2: It was just so long this morning. But basically, all
20:18
Speaker 2: it boils down to is we're fucked because of the
20:21
Speaker 2: Republican state legislatures.
20:22
Speaker 4: They're up to their old shit again.
20:23
Speaker 2: Because what they could do is, you know, try to
20:26
Speaker 2: say it doesn't matter what people in the state, how
20:29
Speaker 2: people in the state vote.
20:30
Speaker 5: Right.
20:30
Speaker 2: We're just going to send our own slate of electors
20:32
Speaker 2: to Congress. And then no one has to object in
20:35
Speaker 2: the Senate. The VP doesn't have to get involved. Nothing
20:37
Speaker 2: like that has to happen because of Republican state legislatures
20:40
Speaker 2: decide this is how we're going to apportion electors. And
20:43
Speaker 2: it's not going to be about the popular vote or
20:44
Speaker 2: they just make up something because, you know, they make
20:47
Speaker 2: up vote fraud like they did before. Then they can
20:49
Speaker 2: send their own fucking slate of electors. And then I
20:51
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know what you do.
20:52
Speaker 3: And well, then one thing that has to happen is
20:53
Speaker 3: Democrats have to object. And then we're accused. Yeah.
20:56
Speaker 2: Imagine that we imagine we reform the electoral count.
20:59
Speaker 3: I mean, look, we should do everything we can to
21:03
Speaker 3: build stronger walls around. are democratic processes. We have to
21:07
Speaker 3: do that. But there's no wall that is stronger than
21:11
Speaker 3: an authoritarian movement that wins elections.
21:15
Speaker 4: There just isn't.
21:15
Speaker 3: There is no recourse. If they don't believe in the laws,
21:19
Speaker 3: but they use them when they are in power, which
21:21
Speaker 3: they have gained democratically, which they have in state legislatures,
21:24
Speaker 3: obviously with gerrymandering, obviously with vote suppression, obviously with a
21:27
Speaker 3: host of advantages that we don't have, we should do
21:30
Speaker 3: everything we can to protect the system, but we should
21:31
Speaker 3: be clear-eyed about this. We will not be able to
21:34
Speaker 3: protect the system from authoritarians with democratic power. We just won't.
21:38
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, these state legislatures are likely to look even
21:41
Speaker 4: worse in some states that are going to get re-gerrymandered
21:45
Speaker 4: at the state level and become even more MAGA. And,
21:47
Speaker 4: you know, let's listen to my friend Steve Bannon on
21:49
Speaker 4: the way in.
21:50
Speaker 2: We didn't even get to the C block yet, and
21:51
Speaker 2: you're already on Bannon.
21:53
Speaker 4: Boris Epstein, the marble-mouthed guy who did booking for TV
21:57
Speaker 4: or whatever, was like... He's now on Newsmax or something,
21:59
Speaker 4: or he's on one of those... He was in Sinclair
22:01
Speaker 4: for a while. He's camped out in Arizona trying to
22:04
Speaker 4: force them to decertify. These MAGA types are deploying to
22:09
Speaker 4: states to pressure specific state legislatures to try to get
22:13
Speaker 4: the results they want, which will make it easier to
22:15
Speaker 4: subvert elections.
22:16
Speaker 2: And so while that is all bad news, and there's
22:20
Speaker 2: probably little we can do about extremely gerrymandered Republican state legislatures,
22:25
Speaker 2: what is not gerrymandered are the statewide elections for secretary
22:29
Speaker 2: of state and governor and all of the swing states.
22:31
Speaker 2: And so I do, and they, and the governor and
22:33
Speaker 2: the secretary of state and all of those states play
22:36
Speaker 2: a huge role in this. And in many instances, they can't,
22:39
Speaker 2: the legislature can't get away with their bullshit. If there's
22:41
Speaker 2: a democratic governor, democratic secretary of state, or some combination
22:44
Speaker 2: of both in place. And so when you think about
22:47
Speaker 2: how important it is to reelect Gretchen Whitmer, Tony Evers,
22:50
Speaker 2: like just, these are really, really important elections. for governor
22:54
Speaker 2: in these swing states and for secretaries of state. So
22:57
Speaker 2: we should really focus on that in 2022 because that
23:00
Speaker 2: could protect us from an election theft in 2024 by Trump. Okay.
23:05
Speaker 2: When we come back, we will talk to Senator Chris
23:08
Speaker 2: Murphy about the Build Back Better plan and what Congress
23:10
Speaker 2: can do about gun violence. The Senate has quite a
23:22
Speaker 2: bit on its plate before everyone heads home for the holidays.
23:24
Speaker 2: Among the most important are passing a defense funding bill,
23:26
Speaker 2: passing Joe Biden's economic agenda, and avoiding a catastrophic default
23:30
Speaker 2: on our debt. Here to chat with us about how
23:32
Speaker 2: it all gets done, as well as what Congress should
23:34
Speaker 2: do about gun violence in the wake of last week's
23:36
Speaker 2: horrific school shooting in Michigan, Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy. Senator,
23:39
Speaker 2: welcome back to the pod.
23:41
Speaker 5: What's up, guys? Thanks for having me back.
23:42
Speaker 2: I imagine you are incredibly sick of having to answer
23:46
Speaker 2: questions about your two colleagues from West Virginia and Arizona.
23:50
Speaker 2: I am quite sick of asking those questions, but here
23:52
Speaker 2: we are. CNN reported the other day that Manchin still
23:56
Speaker 2: has Build Back Better concerns about what he calls budget gimmicks,
24:00
Speaker 2: paid family leave, climate taxes, and Medicare expansion. Does that
24:04
Speaker 2: track with your conversations? Do you feel like he's asking
24:06
Speaker 2: for small changes here or big changes?
24:09
Speaker 5: Listen, I think we're going to get this done. I'm
24:11
Speaker 5: confident we're going to get this done. I've been around
24:13
Speaker 5: this place long enough to know when there is enough
24:15
Speaker 5: momentum behind something big and important for it to be inexorable.
24:20
Speaker 5: And I think that's the case with Build Back Better.
24:24
Speaker 5: I think Joe is in productive conversations right now with
24:26
Speaker 5: leadership in the White House about how to settle the
24:29
Speaker 5: differences that remain. I mean, some of them are no
24:32
Speaker 5: secret to anybody. I think it's been clear for a while, unfortunately,
24:35
Speaker 5: that Joe is not going to support a package with
24:39
Speaker 5: paid family leave, at least not the version that's in
24:41
Speaker 5: the House of Representatives. There are other conversations that are
24:45
Speaker 5: more nuanced, like exactly what tax incentives are going to
24:48
Speaker 5: be included in the $ 550 billion renewable energy package. But
24:53
Speaker 5: my sense is that this is going to get done.
24:56
Speaker 5: And my sense also is that Chuck Schumer is not
24:58
Speaker 5: sending anybody home for the holiday break until this thing
25:02
Speaker 5: is done. So I remain optimistic.
25:06
Speaker 2: So you're feeling pretty confident about the deadline to the
25:09
Speaker 2: Christmas deadline. I do.
25:12
Speaker 5: I do. Listen, I mean, Joe's never, you know, hid
25:15
Speaker 5: the fact that, you know, if it was up to him,
25:19
Speaker 5: this package would be closer to zero. And so his
25:22
Speaker 5: case that he makes to the rest of us is that,
25:25
Speaker 5: you know, to get to the neighborhood we're in today, $ 1. 75
25:29
Speaker 5: trillion is a pretty significant concession. But I think we're
25:34
Speaker 5: getting closer. I think we'll get there.
25:36
Speaker 2: Do we have to worry about the Republicans tanking the
25:39
Speaker 2: global economy over the debt limit, or do you guys
25:41
Speaker 2: have a plan there?
25:43
Speaker 5: I think we do. I mean, I think over and
25:45
Speaker 5: over again, they have made perfectly clear that they believe
25:50
Speaker 5: in one thing and one thing only, which is hurting
25:52
Speaker 5: Joe Biden. And if people's economic destitution or global chaos
25:58
Speaker 5: hurts Joe Biden, then they chalk that up as a victory.
26:01
Speaker 5: That's the reason why they are also blocking all of
26:05
Speaker 5: the president's national security nominees as Russia sends tens of
26:09
Speaker 5: thousands of troops to the Ukrainian border, because as far
26:12
Speaker 5: as many Republicans are concerned, an invasion of Ukraine weakens
26:16
Speaker 5: Joe Biden and ultimately helps Republicans. So on debt ceiling,
26:19
Speaker 5: all we're asking for is for them to allow Democrats
26:23
Speaker 5: to deliver all the votes. We just want them to
26:26
Speaker 5: allow us to proceed to a vote in which Democrats
26:29
Speaker 5: would deliver 50 votes plus Kamala Harris to raise the
26:32
Speaker 5: debt ceiling. So we actually don't need their votes. We
26:34
Speaker 5: just need their permission to allow for a process that
26:38
Speaker 5: allows Democrats to do it alone.
26:40
Speaker 4: Senator, last week, there was another horrific school shooting at
26:43
Speaker 4: Oxford High School in Michigan. You went to the Senate
26:45
Speaker 4: floor and asked for unanimous consent to pass a bill
26:48
Speaker 4: that would expand background checks on gun sales. Republicans blocked it,
26:51
Speaker 4: as they've done many times before. As you pointed out
26:54
Speaker 4: in your speech that day, I mean, this proposal is
26:55
Speaker 4: wildly popular. But again, we can't even get a vote.
27:01
Speaker 4: The angriest I've ever seen Barack Obama, I think John
27:03
Speaker 4: would probably agree, was when Republicans blocked similar action after Newtown.
27:08
Speaker 4: Do you see any path forward here? Like, is there
27:11
Speaker 4: anything we can do as listeners or activists or any
27:14
Speaker 4: hope people should feel?
27:16
Speaker 5: People should absolutely feel hope. Listen, this is a great
27:21
Speaker 5: social change movement, the fight to make our community safer
27:24
Speaker 5: in the tradition of the civil rights movement and the
27:28
Speaker 5: marriage equality movement. And whether we like it or not,
27:31
Speaker 5: those were movements that took decades that had to meet
27:34
Speaker 5: obstacle after obstacle. That's what this is, right? There are
27:37
Speaker 5: enormous vested interests on the other side, the gun industry.
27:40
Speaker 5: being chief amongst them, which means even if we don't
27:44
Speaker 5: get everything we want passed this year, we have to
27:46
Speaker 5: continue to build this movement. There will be a day
27:49
Speaker 5: in which the gun lobby is not as powerful as
27:51
Speaker 5: we are. So I just hope that people see the
27:56
Speaker 5: sort of long-term arc of this fight. Now, listen, I
27:59
Speaker 5: have asked Senator Schumer for time this year to try
28:02
Speaker 5: to work out a compromise on background checks that could
28:05
Speaker 5: get 60 votes. And so the only reason we haven't
28:06
Speaker 5: voted on it is because I've asked to be given
28:09
Speaker 5: as much space as I can to negotiate a compromise.
28:13
Speaker 5: I'm here to report with 10 days, 20 days left
28:16
Speaker 5: in the year. We're not going to get that bipartisan
28:18
Speaker 5: compromise this year. So we will and we should put
28:20
Speaker 5: a background checks bill up on the floor of the
28:22
Speaker 5: Senate next year and dare Republicans to vote against it.
28:25
Speaker 5: So what people need to do is in the short term,
28:28
Speaker 5: put pressure on their members of the Senate to vote
28:31
Speaker 5: on what will be a compromise background checks bill that
28:33
Speaker 5: we'll put on the floor early next year. And second,
28:36
Speaker 5: join the movement, right? Sign up with anyone of a
28:38
Speaker 5: myriad of national or local anti-gun violence groups and become
28:43
Speaker 5: part of a social change movement that will go down
28:46
Speaker 5: in the history books as successful as ones that you
28:48
Speaker 5: have read about.
28:50
Speaker 4: Someone who is probably not going to follow that advice
28:52
Speaker 4: is Congressman Thomas Massey. He put out this bizarre Christmas
28:55
Speaker 4: card with his family, arms to the teeth. It looked
28:57
Speaker 4: like a remake of the Predator movies starring the little rascals. Like,
29:03
Speaker 4: Is he a real human being? Does he represent the
29:04
Speaker 4: gulf between you and, I don't know, sort of hardcore
29:08
Speaker 4: gun fans? Is this just psychotic trolling? Like, what do
29:11
Speaker 4: you make of that bizarre stunt by Massey?
29:15
Speaker 5: I know I did see the photo and I was like,
29:18
Speaker 5: just hoping that there were other members of that family
29:21
Speaker 5: that aren't in that photo, that there were a couple
29:23
Speaker 5: that didn't consent to that picture, or at least there
29:25
Speaker 5: were big blow up fights before everyone was forced to
29:28
Speaker 5: take that photo, that there was some level of dissent.
29:31
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, there is a just celebratory culture around
29:36
Speaker 5: guns in this country that is wild for the rest
29:38
Speaker 5: of the world to watch. And it is what rationalizes
29:45
Speaker 5: for these mass shooters, their belief that they can exercise
29:49
Speaker 5: the demons in their head by pulling out a gun
29:51
Speaker 5: and shooting it because we have just legitimized guns in
29:55
Speaker 5: to the extent that they are now Christmas card photos.
29:59
Speaker 5: And so it just doesn't seem that abnormal, that out
30:02
Speaker 5: of the mainstream to bring a gun into a school.
30:05
Speaker 5: It doesn't seem that abnormal or out of the mainstream
30:08
Speaker 5: to some of these very broken brains to fire that weapon.
30:11
Speaker 5: That is due to this culture in which we just
30:14
Speaker 5: see them as part of Americana like grandma and apple pie.
30:18
Speaker 5: And listen, I understand America has a little different story
30:21
Speaker 5: with guns than other nations do, but this this celebratory
30:26
Speaker 5: nirvana that happens over firearms, it is part of what
30:30
Speaker 5: motivates these mass shooters.
30:32
Speaker 2: I know you were working this year with John Cornyn
30:35
Speaker 2: and Pat Toomey on closing gun show loopholes and other reforms.
30:41
Speaker 2: Have you reached out to either of them since Michigan
30:43
Speaker 2: to see if you can start those talks up again,
30:45
Speaker 2: or is that just, has that ship sailed?
30:48
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we got to the logical conclusion on
30:51
Speaker 5: both of those processes. We were working with Senator Cornyn
30:55
Speaker 5: on tightening up the definition of who qualifies as a
30:57
Speaker 5: seller of guns so you'd get more of these private
31:00
Speaker 5: sector sellers conducting background checks. Then when those talks collapsed,
31:04
Speaker 5: I moved on to Lindsey Graham who said, listen, we
31:06
Speaker 5: can do the gun show loophole. We ultimately couldn't get
31:11
Speaker 5: anything there that would have come close to 10 votes,
31:14
Speaker 5: which is why we'll have to put one of these
31:17
Speaker 5: measures on the floor early next year. I do think
31:21
Speaker 5: that a lot of Republicans think that this movement is
31:25
Speaker 5: losing strength. I'm going to be honest, and we have
31:27
Speaker 5: to show them that that's not the case. I think
31:29
Speaker 5: many Republicans think that this country has become anesthetized to
31:32
Speaker 5: gun violence, that there isn't as much outrage anymore over
31:35
Speaker 5: school shootings as there was, thereby they can stand on
31:38
Speaker 5: the outside and avoid any political price. Our mission now
31:43
Speaker 5: has to be to not normalize this, to not lose
31:47
Speaker 5: our sense of outrage when our kids fear for their
31:50
Speaker 5: lives when they go to school. I've I take this personally.
31:53
Speaker 5: I send my seventh grader and my fourth grader to
31:55
Speaker 5: public school every day. And I just am beside myself
31:59
Speaker 5: that too many people just sort of shrug off these
32:02
Speaker 5: mass shootings, shrug off these active shooter drills. So, yeah,
32:05
Speaker 5: Republicans are hard to get right now, I think, because
32:08
Speaker 5: they are making a bet that we're going to go away.
32:12
Speaker 4: President Biden just announced a decision to put forward a
32:15
Speaker 4: diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Winter Olympics. Do you agree
32:18
Speaker 4: with that? Do you think that goes far enough?
32:21
Speaker 5: I don't think it goes far enough. I agree with it.
32:24
Speaker 5: But I mean, I don't think we should oversell the
32:26
Speaker 5: impact of a diplomatic boycott. I mean, what China really
32:29
Speaker 5: wants is our athletes. They really want the TV coverage
32:33
Speaker 5: that doesn't stop simply because we are engaged in a
32:36
Speaker 5: diplomatic boycott. You know what they are doing to the.
32:41
Speaker 5: Muslim Uyghurs is a genocide and we should treat it
32:46
Speaker 5: as such, which means taking much more heavy handed economic
32:50
Speaker 5: sanctions against any and all products that are produced in
32:54
Speaker 5: that part of China to make clear that forced labor
32:58
Speaker 5: is gonna find absolutely no safe harbor anywhere in the
33:02
Speaker 5: world's economy. So I support this measure, but it's not enough.
33:08
Speaker 5: And I worry sometimes that we engage in a little
33:11
Speaker 5: bit of box checking. with sort of light-handed sanctions policy.
33:17
Speaker 5: We do this all the time with sanctions in which
33:19
Speaker 5: we sanction a handful of people and then we move
33:22
Speaker 5: on to some other area of foreign policy. Here, when
33:25
Speaker 5: a genocide is happening, this can't be the beginning and
33:27
Speaker 5: the end.
33:29
Speaker 2: Some of your Democratic colleagues in the House who are
33:31
Speaker 2: running in pretty tough districts told Axios yesterday that the
33:34
Speaker 2: party should stop talking about Trump and January 6th, avoid
33:38
Speaker 2: nationalizing the midterms. focus on selling the benefits of Biden's
33:42
Speaker 2: agenda in their districts? What do you think about that?
33:45
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know that there's necessarily a choice
33:48
Speaker 5: to be made. I think it's absolutely true that we
33:53
Speaker 5: have to pass the Build Back Better agenda and then
33:57
Speaker 5: go sell it, right? We are, at times as Democrats,
34:00
Speaker 5: understandably addicted to legislative. We love legislating. And so we
34:05
Speaker 5: pass something and then we move on to try to
34:07
Speaker 5: pass something else, right? We're not so excited about messaging
34:10
Speaker 5: in part because messaging involves saying the same thing over
34:13
Speaker 5: and over again. And that gets like super boring after
34:16
Speaker 5: a while. And as Democrats, we want to be stimulated, right?
34:22
Speaker 5: So on this, I'm not saying we have to stop legislating,
34:25
Speaker 5: but for a while after we pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill,
34:29
Speaker 5: the Build Back Better bill and the American Rescue Plan,
34:31
Speaker 5: arguably the most consequential set of legislative achievements for any
34:35
Speaker 5: first year president since FDR, we got to go out
34:38
Speaker 5: there and sell it. That being said, I don't think
34:41
Speaker 5: we should stop talking about Donald Trump. I do think
34:43
Speaker 5: there is a sizable portion of the swing electorate that
34:46
Speaker 5: is deeply offended by his politics, that is deeply worried
34:49
Speaker 5: that he is going to come back in 2024. And
34:53
Speaker 5: I don't necessarily think that we have to make a choice.
34:56
Speaker 5: We can talk about how we were able as Democrats
34:59
Speaker 5: to turn the corner from Donald Trump The tone of
35:02
Speaker 5: our politics changed by having Joe Biden in the White House,
35:05
Speaker 5: but the practical impact on your lives changed because no
35:08
Speaker 5: longer is it the Fortune 500 companies that get the
35:11
Speaker 5: tax breaks, it's tax breaks going to you, it's childcare
35:14
Speaker 5: savings going to you. So talk about the stakes of
35:18
Speaker 5: this election being preserving this focus, on help for middle-class
35:22
Speaker 5: families and the specter of your life being once again
35:26
Speaker 5: dominated by Donald Trump's Twitter feed. I don't necessarily think
35:29
Speaker 5: that you can't make that argument in an elevator speech together.
35:34
Speaker 4: Final question for you. Your friend, your colleague, Senator Brian
35:37
Speaker 4: Schatz is up for reelection in 2022. Why did you
35:40
Speaker 4: decide to endorse Tulsi Gabbard in a primary against him?
35:45
Speaker 4: Where do you fall short?
35:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, every chance I get, I feed any morsel of
35:51
Speaker 5: information I have to shots about reputed primary challenges. I
35:55
Speaker 5: have good information on all sorts of billionaires that are
35:57
Speaker 5: thinking about moving to Hawaii that nobody else has, that
36:01
Speaker 5: only I know about, that I share with Brian. So
36:04
Speaker 5: anybody that has some tidbits of information that you want
36:06
Speaker 5: to pass along, please let me know. These Hawaii senators,
36:12
Speaker 5: the weather, the climate, and the democratic constituency can blow
36:15
Speaker 5: them into a sense of complacency. We can't let that
36:17
Speaker 5: happen with shots.
36:18
Speaker 2: I think it's really screwed up that you haven't maxed
36:20
Speaker 2: out yet. That's all I'm saying. I think it's just.
36:23
Speaker 5: Are you paying attention to my finance reports that closely?
36:26
Speaker 4: We're deep in the NBC over here.
36:28
Speaker 5: If I told you that I've maxed out, would you
36:30
Speaker 5: know otherwise?
36:31
Speaker 4: I feel like the undertone was that one very well
36:35
Speaker 4: sunscreened billionaire surfer might be running against him. One Zuckerberg
36:40
Speaker 4: might be jumping in this race.
36:41
Speaker 2: That sounds like the... That's rough. All right.
36:43
Speaker 5: I will commit to you here. I will go and check.
36:44
Speaker 5: And if I haven't maxed out to Brian, I'm maxing out.
36:47
Speaker 2: I just wanted to start you. I have no idea.
36:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know.
36:50
Speaker 4: But now I'm going to.
36:52
Speaker 2: Look at your next FEC report for sure.
36:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm going to settle it tonight.
36:56
Speaker 2: Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so much for joining us
36:58
Speaker 2: as always. Take care and come back again.
37:00
Speaker 5: Thanks, guys.
37:10
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about an issue that's usually the
37:12
Speaker 2: main topic of conversation on Tommy's favorite war room podcast, China.
37:17
Speaker 4: The Olympics?
37:17
Speaker 3: Oh.
37:18
Speaker 2: The Biden administration announced on Monday they will not be
37:21
Speaker 2: sending U.S. officials to February's Winter Olympics in Beijing, citing China's, quote,
37:26
Speaker 2: ongoing genocide and crimes against humanity. American athletes are still
37:30
Speaker 2: expected to attend, but Jen Psaki told reporters that the
37:32
Speaker 2: White House, quote, will not be contributing to the fanfare
37:34
Speaker 2: of the games. China has threatened to take firm countermeasures
37:38
Speaker 2: if the U.S. proceeds with a diplomatic boycott. While some
37:40
Speaker 2: Republicans have called for a full boycott of the games. Tommy,
37:44
Speaker 2: how big of a deal is this decision and why
37:45
Speaker 2: do you think the Biden administration made it?
37:47
Speaker 4: I think it was. Well, it's interesting to hear Chris
37:49
Speaker 4: Murphy say, you know, he doesn't really think it's sufficient. Obviously,
37:53
Speaker 4: it will not solve the problem. It will not convince
37:55
Speaker 4: China to stop throwing, you know, a million or more
37:58
Speaker 4: Uyghurs who are a Muslim minority group into these reeducation
38:01
Speaker 4: camps where they face torture and forced labor and just
38:04
Speaker 4: the worst things you could ever imagine. Uh, but sterilization, sterilization,
38:07
Speaker 4: I mean, the, the stories are some of the most
38:09
Speaker 4: harrowing things you've ever heard. And that's why it's been
38:11
Speaker 4: called the genocide. But, um, I think the hope is
38:14
Speaker 4: to create a way to get the world talking about
38:19
Speaker 4: this genocide that's ongoing in China and talking about China's
38:23
Speaker 4: human rights record. Um, but also do so in a
38:26
Speaker 4: way that allows U.S. athletes who have been training their
38:28
Speaker 4: entire lives to compete in the Olympics to compete because
38:31
Speaker 4: they didn't have a choice about where the Olympic Games are.
38:33
Speaker 4: The horribly corrupt IOC decides where these games go. It's
38:37
Speaker 4: a broken, bankrupt, disgusting organization that is more than happy
38:42
Speaker 4: to help China cover up the disappearance, we'll say, of
38:46
Speaker 4: a tennis star who made sexual assault allegations against a
38:49
Speaker 4: very powerful Chinese official. So I'm glad they did this.
38:53
Speaker 4: I personally am glad that they're not punishing athletes as well.
38:57
Speaker 4: In 1980, Jimmy Carter kept all athletes out of the
39:00
Speaker 4: games in the Soviet Union after they invaded Afghanistan. And
39:04
Speaker 4: I think there was some feeling that that might have
39:05
Speaker 4: handed Russia a propaganda win at the time because they
39:07
Speaker 4: just mopped up and won all the medals because 60
39:10
Speaker 4: countries didn't participate. Tom Cotton is saying this isn't insufficient.
39:13
Speaker 4: It's a half measure. But, you know, people like Mitt
39:15
Speaker 4: Romney had pushed for this, the Biden solution beforehand. So
39:20
Speaker 4: I do think there's some bipartisan agreement around this.
39:22
Speaker 3: Hey, President. Hey, President Xi. You want to meet Chastain
39:25
Speaker 3: and Pete? Go fuck yourself.
39:27
Speaker 2: Diplomacy. I was going to say, I thought that Senator
39:31
Speaker 2: Murphy's point was well taken that like what China really
39:33
Speaker 2: wants is the television coverage of the games and all
39:35
Speaker 2: the athletes. And, you know, there's probably not going to
39:37
Speaker 2: be as much coverage of the lack of a diplomatic
39:40
Speaker 2: presence from the U.S.
39:41
Speaker 4: I mean, if you could inject this set of questions,
39:43
Speaker 4: a set of issues, China's human rights record, whether it's Xinjiang, Tibet,
39:48
Speaker 4: Hong Kong, you know, you pick your many issues there.
39:51
Speaker 4: China has a terrible record into the coverage, into the
39:54
Speaker 4: conversation around the games. They will hate that. The Chinese
39:57
Speaker 4: will hate that. The question is, like, will the NBC,
39:59
Speaker 4: I assume it's NBC, broadcast ever mentioned these things during
40:03
Speaker 4: the broadcast of the games from beijing i don't know
40:06
Speaker 4: do you.
40:06
Speaker 2: Think other countries might follow suit is it possible that
40:08
Speaker 2: like i saw that australia was maybe thinking.
40:10
Speaker 4: About it yeah australia and china are in a bad
40:13
Speaker 4: place because the australians called for uh investigations of the
40:16
Speaker 4: origins of covet 19 so they're at loggerheads with china
40:19
Speaker 4: right now but you could see other countries following suit.
40:21
Speaker 3: There's something sort of like feckless about what we're doing
40:25
Speaker 3: because it's like oh there's a very serious issue what
40:27
Speaker 3: are we willing to do we're willing to uh prevent
40:30
Speaker 3: our diplomats from going there, our officials from going there. Meanwhile,
40:33
Speaker 3: there's a controversy. I don't know if you talked about
40:36
Speaker 3: it with Murphy, but there's a controversy over Rubio trying
40:38
Speaker 3: to get actually what is a bipartisan bill about the
40:40
Speaker 3: Uyghurs into the defense authorization. There's some technicality by which
40:45
Speaker 3: they try to not allow it, but there's a bipartisan
40:48
Speaker 3: bill that would stop the importation of goods from the
40:50
Speaker 3: region in which the Uyghurs have been subjected to forced labor.
40:56
Speaker 3: And it has, you know, there's a version that's passed
40:58
Speaker 3: the House. There's a version that has passed the Senate.
41:01
Speaker 3: It is incredibly bipartisan, yet it just doesn't happen. And
41:03
Speaker 3: usually when things like this just don't happen, it's because
41:06
Speaker 3: everybody recognizes that an important message bill, but there's some
41:08
Speaker 3: corporate influence or other influences behind the scenes preventing them
41:11
Speaker 3: from actually doing it. And so we end up in
41:12
Speaker 3: a situation where, you know, the deputy secretary of state
41:16
Speaker 3: can't go visit Beijing for the Olympics. And meanwhile, there's
41:20
Speaker 3: an actual substantive measure that can't seem to be passed.
41:24
Speaker 4: So Murphy said he supports the Rubio bill, not in
41:27
Speaker 4: those words, but he said that he would support barring
41:30
Speaker 4: all imports from the Xinjiang region. I'm not sure where
41:32
Speaker 4: the administration is going to land on that. I think
41:34
Speaker 4: they might think that's, I mean, Xinjiang is the size
41:37
Speaker 4: of France, Germany, Spain, and the UK combined. It's a
41:40
Speaker 4: huge place. So maybe they think there's a more narrowly
41:42
Speaker 4: tailored way that would get at the forced labor issue
41:44
Speaker 4: without I don't know, creating some sort of import challenge.
41:48
Speaker 4: I'm not defending, opposing that provision, but that's sort of,
41:53
Speaker 4: I think, the context. The one thing to know on
41:56
Speaker 4: the games, though, is like George W. Bush went to
41:58
Speaker 4: the Beijing Olympics in 2008. So you've seen in the
42:01
Speaker 4: past representation at the presidential level. Obama went to London
42:06
Speaker 4: in 2012. The 2018 delegation was Pence and Ivanka. So,
42:12
Speaker 4: you know, like... yes, you know, denying them, uh, mayor
42:16
Speaker 4: Pete and Chastain is like, you know, right. Like they're, they're,
42:19
Speaker 4: I don't mean to knock baby. It could be others cabinets.
42:21
Speaker 4: Like denying Marty Walsh, right. Denying, um, you know, I
42:26
Speaker 4: don't want to insult somebody like denying them any representation, right.
42:29
Speaker 4: They're not going to be all that upset about it.
42:31
Speaker 4: But in the past there have been presidential level delegations.
42:33
Speaker 3: And I do remember too, around Beijing in 2008, there
42:36
Speaker 3: was a, a controversy around Darfur and China's contribution to
42:40
Speaker 3: the genocide in Darfur.
42:41
Speaker 4: Uh, and, uh, You know, what's interesting is Steven Spielberg
42:45
Speaker 4: was supposed to be like the director of the Olympics
42:47
Speaker 4: at the time. And he pulled out in like February
42:50
Speaker 4: before those games. But then there was also, I think,
42:52
Speaker 4: huge protests around the torch route where it goes from
42:56
Speaker 4: Greece to China. And there are all these protests. And interestingly,
43:00
Speaker 4: it created this very like nationalistic fervor response in China that,
43:06
Speaker 4: you know, it didn't necessarily help. Like people, the Chinese
43:09
Speaker 4: reaction was to feel like the international media were treating
43:13
Speaker 4: them unfairly, especially when it comes to Tibet.
43:15
Speaker 3: I think that it was actually, I think Ronan and
43:18
Speaker 3: Mia Farrow wrote a piece in the Wall Street Journal
43:21
Speaker 3: calling out Steven Spielberg that forced him to back out.
43:24
Speaker 5: Really?
43:24
Speaker 3: I don't think their relationship ever recovered.
43:26
Speaker 4: Wow.
43:27
Speaker 2: You can only get that kind of stuff on your podcast.
43:29
Speaker 4: Pull that clip up.
43:30
Speaker 3: Check the facts, check the facts, but I think that's true.
43:33
Speaker 2: Trump and MAGA assholes like Steve Bannon have really revved
43:37
Speaker 2: up the anti-China rhetoric in recent years. You guys think
43:40
Speaker 2: that's They see that as effective politics for their base
43:44
Speaker 2: or effective politics more broadly.
43:46
Speaker 3: What do you think?
43:49
Speaker 4: What do I think?
43:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think they want to have a villain.
43:53
Speaker 3: And I think if it's not going to be, sometimes
43:55
Speaker 3: it should be Democrats. Sometimes it should be some foreign
43:58
Speaker 3: fucking adversary. And I also think there's plenty of very
44:01
Speaker 3: legitimate reasons to be worried about what China is doing
44:05
Speaker 3: to influence China. the global economy and throw its right around.
44:09
Speaker 4: We see U.S.
44:10
Speaker 3: Corporations, big multinational corporations censoring themselves, censoring our own films
44:16
Speaker 3: and television shows, basically ceding power to censors in authoritarian countries.
44:20
Speaker 3: So I think it's both a I think it's a
44:23
Speaker 3: useful tool for them. I think it's a genuine concern
44:26
Speaker 3: that they have. And it's an exploitation.
44:27
Speaker 4: It's exploitation.
44:28
Speaker 5: Yeah.
44:29
Speaker 4: I mean, the Trump, I think, saw the China tariffs
44:32
Speaker 4: as very good politics for him. at the end of
44:34
Speaker 4: the day. And I think we saw, I remember seeing
44:35
Speaker 4: some like DNC polling and focus group data is where
44:38
Speaker 4: people gave him credit for trying because they heard about it.
44:41
Speaker 4: He made enough of a stink about it. You know,
44:44
Speaker 4: they also obviously blamed the entire COVID response on China
44:47
Speaker 4: and made that a way to deflect from Trump. And
44:48
Speaker 4: by the way, the sort of Bannon wing and the
44:50
Speaker 4: Peter Navarro wing is that the Chinese manufactured and then
44:55
Speaker 4: purposefully spread COVID-19 to harm us, right? So they go
44:58
Speaker 4: that far in the enemy. For Bannon, I think it's
44:59
Speaker 4: part personal. I think he's found this Chinese dissident billionaire
45:02
Speaker 4: who funds all his operations. But more broadly, politically, there's
45:06
Speaker 4: an effort to conflate progressivism and socialism with communism. And
45:11
Speaker 4: they lump it all together with this one enemy.
45:13
Speaker 2: So Gallup did a poll in February of 21. 79%
45:18
Speaker 2: of Americans have mostly or very unfavorable opinions of China.
45:24
Speaker 2: 41% very unfavorable. And that number was up 24 points
45:27
Speaker 2: from the year before. They dug in a little bit
45:29
Speaker 2: and they found it was driven by, not by COVID,
45:32
Speaker 2: but by the human rights concerns. One out of every
45:35
Speaker 2: five people asked about China brought up human rights just
45:38
Speaker 2: on their own.
45:39
Speaker 4: Which was in the poll.
45:39
Speaker 2: 69% of Democrats and 72% of Republicans support promoting human
45:44
Speaker 2: rights in China, even if it hurts economic ties. Nice
45:47
Speaker 2: to say to a pollster, we'll see what happens if
45:49
Speaker 2: the economy actually takes a hit. 60% think China's economic
45:52
Speaker 2: power could pose a critical threat to the US of
45:56
Speaker 2: all Americans. So it is, there is some evidence that
45:58
Speaker 2: there's obvious, I mean, we know there's evidence because in
46:02
Speaker 2: democratic politics for a long time, you talk about like,
46:04
Speaker 2: I want to make sure the jobs aren't created in China.
46:07
Speaker 2: I want to make sure they're created right here in America.
46:09
Speaker 2: Huge applause line pulls off the charts, right? So there
46:12
Speaker 2: is this sort of economic nationalism that spans both parties
46:16
Speaker 2: that I do think, you know, Democrats should, at least recognize.
46:20
Speaker 2: And I think the Biden administration is in their rhetoric
46:22
Speaker 2: and in their policy.
46:24
Speaker 5: Yeah.
46:24
Speaker 3: But look, I also think when you talk to, uh,
46:27
Speaker 3: tech people about the questions around breaking up Facebook and, and,
46:32
Speaker 3: and how to regulate, uh, um, uh, social media and
46:35
Speaker 3: other tech giants, the first response you hear is you
46:38
Speaker 3: will be hamstring us in the fights to come against China.
46:41
Speaker 3: I think it is a accepted wisdom amongst, uh, uh,
46:45
Speaker 3: a lot of people that like, this is the great
46:48
Speaker 3: competition we are, this is the next hundred years, right?
46:51
Speaker 3: How the US faces and tries to compete with China.
46:54
Speaker 3: That is something Democrats, Republicans, independents, experts all seem to say.
46:58
Speaker 3: And I think right now you see a version of
47:00
Speaker 3: that language from the right that is a bit more xenophobic,
47:03
Speaker 3: a bit more extreme, a bit more nationalistic. And the
47:05
Speaker 3: question is, what is the democratic way of speaking about
47:09
Speaker 3: these issues that is not as.
47:14
Speaker 4: Hate-filled.
47:15
Speaker 2: And bellicose.
47:16
Speaker 4: And bellicose.
47:17
Speaker 2: You don't want to be tiptoeing towards war with China
47:19
Speaker 2: just based on overheated rhetoric.
47:23
Speaker 5: Yeah.
47:23
Speaker 4: I mean, look, the consensus opinion in Washington is basically
47:26
Speaker 4: that we are destined for conflict with China. And that's
47:30
Speaker 4: not a great place to be. I mean, I think
47:31
Speaker 4: Democrats need to be full-throated in their criticism of China's
47:36
Speaker 4: human rights record, the failure of transparency around COVID, Hong Kong, Taiwan,
47:41
Speaker 4: the censorship abroad that you were talking about. I mean,
47:44
Speaker 4: the Chinese government decided to kick the shit out of
47:47
Speaker 4: the general manager of the Houston Rockets for posting a
47:50
Speaker 4: tweet or an Instagram about Hong Kong. And half of
47:53
Speaker 4: the NBA kind of cowered in fear before they finally
47:55
Speaker 4: decided to fight back. That's nuts. We cannot let that happen.
47:58
Speaker 4: I think we need to stand for what we believe. But,
48:00
Speaker 4: you know, I too am worried about this like Cold
48:02
Speaker 4: War 2.0 jingoism thing. And if Democrats and Republicans are
48:06
Speaker 4: constantly trying to out-compete each other on denouncing China like
48:10
Speaker 4: foreign policy by, you know, like overwrought adjective, right, you
48:15
Speaker 4: could end up in a place where you lose the
48:17
Speaker 4: ability to work with China on climate change. Or you,
48:21
Speaker 4: I don't know, you can't work with them in North Korea. Or,
48:23
Speaker 4: you know, there's less transparency on COVID-19 than there might
48:26
Speaker 4: otherwise be. So I don't trust the Chinese Communist Party.
48:28
Speaker 4: I don't trust the Chinese government. What I worry about
48:31
Speaker 4: is the kind of polling sentiment you just mentioned among Americans.
48:34
Speaker 4: and then also what that polling must look like in China,
48:37
Speaker 4: who are fed nothing but state-run propaganda about how evil
48:40
Speaker 4: the West is, how evil America is, and how inevitable
48:43
Speaker 4: conflict might be.
48:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think the Biden administration's rhetoric, which is
48:48
Speaker 2: sort of a, I'm wondering what you think about this,
48:50
Speaker 2: it's like a bit of a progression of the Obama
48:53
Speaker 2: administration's rhetoric around China, which is they sort of, yeah,
48:56
Speaker 2: escalation is the word I was looking for, which is
48:58
Speaker 2: they're sort of Three messages there. One is on human rights,
49:02
Speaker 2: which we've talked about a lot. The other is on
49:03
Speaker 2: economic competition. And so it's not necessarily about like being
49:07
Speaker 2: on a war footing with China, but saying we're going
49:09
Speaker 2: to create good jobs here. We're going to outcompete them.
49:11
Speaker 2: We're going to have better schools. We're going to attract
49:13
Speaker 2: more businesses. We're going to pay better wages.
49:14
Speaker 1: Right.
49:15
Speaker 2: Like you you do that whole thing. And then the
49:16
Speaker 2: other that you hear Biden doing, and I heard Obama
49:18
Speaker 2: do this a couple of times too, is look, we're
49:20
Speaker 2: in a fight for democracy all over the world right now.
49:23
Speaker 2: And it's threatened here in the United States. And this
49:26
Speaker 2: is an authoritarian government. And what authoritarian governments in China
49:29
Speaker 2: and Russia and all over the world are trying to
49:31
Speaker 2: prove right now is that that's a better system, that
49:33
Speaker 2: they can have better standards of living for their people
49:36
Speaker 2: and that democracies are weak and soft and inefficient. And
49:39
Speaker 2: they can't build a fucking train. And they can't build
49:41
Speaker 2: a fucking train. And that's, you know, and so we
49:44
Speaker 2: are in a competition with that worldview. And I think
49:47
Speaker 2: proving that democracy works, that democracies are strong, that democracies
49:51
Speaker 2: can survive, particularly multiracial, multiethnic democracies, is probably one of
49:56
Speaker 2: the most important things that any U.S. administration can do
49:59
Speaker 2: right now. And I do feel like Democrats should feel
50:00
Speaker 2: confident in that kind of message about China.
50:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also it's worth noting that, you know, Biden
50:05
Speaker 4: announced this AUKUS deal where we are selling nuclear submarine
50:09
Speaker 4: technology to the Australians that the one that infuriated the French.
50:12
Speaker 4: The whole goal there was to create better navies in
50:16
Speaker 4: the South China Sea to push back on China. So
50:18
Speaker 4: like Biden is saying and doing some things that I
50:20
Speaker 4: think are a step above and are different. The other
50:23
Speaker 4: just sort of broader context is that Xi Jinping, the
50:25
Speaker 4: president of China, is kind of he's not a singular
50:28
Speaker 4: figure in Chinese political history, but it's basically a him, Mao,
50:33
Speaker 4: and Deng Xiaoping. It's like, there's like sort of three,
50:37
Speaker 4: there's a pantheon of like three top officials and Xi
50:39
Speaker 4: is just sort of inserting himself into one, being one
50:41
Speaker 4: of the most powerful Chinese leaders of all time and
50:45
Speaker 4: kind of acting accordingly, like crushing Hong Kong or, you know,
50:49
Speaker 4: potentially some sort of military action against Taiwan. And I
50:51
Speaker 4: think that's why people are so worried about it. And
50:53
Speaker 4: you're right, like the Republicans, we should be talking about
50:55
Speaker 4: these things. There should be a healthy concern and conversation
50:59
Speaker 4: about all the areas where China is doing bad things,
51:01
Speaker 4: but I worry about the Cold War 2.0 stuff and
51:05
Speaker 4: the inexorable feeling that there will be military conflict with
51:08
Speaker 4: a rising and a falling power.
51:10
Speaker 2: Well, look, I just want to close by saying I know, Tommy,
51:12
Speaker 2: you're getting a lot of criticism for it, but I
51:14
Speaker 2: think it's wonderful that you have agreed to go on
51:16
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon's podcast and debate these issues about China with
51:19
Speaker 2: him and Peter Navarro and Horace and the whole crowd.
51:22
Speaker 4: I was thinking about it the other day. Not that
51:24
Speaker 4: I would ever go on Steve's pod.
51:25
Speaker 5: Wow.
51:26
Speaker 4: But if I got invited, it would be nominated.
51:28
Speaker 5: No, I do.
51:30
Speaker 4: That's how I first talked about being gay. Remember when, um,
51:33
Speaker 4: remember when Bannon, uh, was supposed to go to that
51:35
Speaker 4: big New Yorker festival and we all browbeat him out
51:37
Speaker 4: of it.
51:38
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
51:38
Speaker 4: So I think that was the right thing to do,
51:40
Speaker 4: but it would be, it would be interesting to hear
51:42
Speaker 4: him actually debate somebody instead of just talking to like
51:43
Speaker 4: Naomi Wolf about how like the vaccination is like.
51:46
Speaker 3: Maybe like, look, before we, uh, before you jump right
51:49
Speaker 3: into the, uh, Boiling the boiling guys or maybe a
51:53
Speaker 3: hot spring like a Joe Rogan or something You know
51:56
Speaker 3: something a little bit little something is warm and bubbly,
51:58
Speaker 3: but not yet Scalding like the beginning of the film
52:01
Speaker 3: Dante's peak. I don't know shout out fair shout out
52:04
Speaker 3: to the tourists who died at the beginning of that movie.
52:06
Speaker 2: Okay, we've definitely reached the end of the podcast. It's
52:08
Speaker 2: got that feeling now Do you.
52:10
Speaker 4: Want to make fun of Chris Cuomo or anything before
52:11
Speaker 4: we leave anything topical?
52:12
Speaker 3: I think I think you know, let's just step over
52:16
Speaker 3: him on our way out of the studio Leave him
52:19
Speaker 3: where he is.
52:20
Speaker 2: Thank you to the other Chris, Chris Murphy, for joining
52:23
Speaker 2: us today.
52:24
Speaker 4: Thank you to Tish James for taking out two of.
52:28
Speaker 2: Them. Tough week for homosexuals. Okay.
52:32
Speaker 4: Return those sweatshirts, people. All right, everyone.
52:35
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you Thursday. Pod Save America is a
52:42
Speaker 2: Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our
52:45
Speaker 2: senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producer is Haley
52:49
Speaker 2: Muse and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer. It's mixed
52:52
Speaker 2: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Sedlin is our sound engineer.
52:56
Speaker 2: Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Madison Holman,
52:59
Speaker 2: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
53:03
Speaker 2: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our
53:07
Speaker 2: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crooked media.