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The Three Biggest Healthcare News of 2025| RxRated Podcast · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
0:09
Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
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Speaker 3: You're listening to rated rrass for the name.
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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Robbie Boss, you here with Samuel Hill and
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Speaker 1: or no.
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Speaker 4: I said that wrong?
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Speaker 5: You Samuel Hill with Samuel LOONA start near your hill, uh,
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Speaker 5: And you're listening to the raid RX podcast, an affiliate
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Speaker 5: with the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
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Speaker 1: Guys were coming at you with the last episode of
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Speaker 1: the year of twenty twenty five, and we want to
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Speaker 1: end on a big note, the news of twenty twenty five.
1:02
Speaker 1: So each of us has selected an article that we
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Speaker 1: think is big news and we should be talking about
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Speaker 1: and how it's going to affect healthcare.
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Speaker 4: Let's do it. Let's do it.
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Speaker 1: Robbie all right, So for my news piece. And I'm
1:16
Speaker 1: actually very surprised this has not gone enough coverage. But
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Speaker 1: back and September thirtieth this year twenty twenty five, the
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Speaker 1: Health and the Human Services Agency released a blueprint for
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Speaker 1: how AI is going to be used and cross the
1:32
Speaker 1: entire health systems that they have. It essentially talks about
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Speaker 1: how they want to modernize how the federal health systems
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Speaker 1: work without blowing up public trust and the process. I'll
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Speaker 1: let you guys in around that one for a sec
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Speaker 1: The strategy opens up by saying AI is already here.
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Speaker 1: They already did two hundred and seventy AI projects this
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Speaker 1: past year, and they plan to do about seventy percent
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Speaker 1: more this year. So instead of letting every division of
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Speaker 1: its own within the agency do do whatever, they're trying
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Speaker 1: to have one coordinated, responsible approach. This approach basically revolves
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Speaker 1: around five pillars they described in this blueprint. Pillar number
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Speaker 1: one is to ensure governance and risk management for public trust.
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Speaker 1: I roll again, Sorry, I have some feelings about this anyways, Yes,
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Speaker 1: I have some feelings about this. So the agency wants
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Speaker 1: strong oversight as what they put it, real governance boards,
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Speaker 1: inventories of every house system, in use testing before anything
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Speaker 1: goes live, independent reviews, continuous monitoring, and power and the
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Speaker 1: power shut down any AI system that isn't safe for
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Speaker 1: our compliance. In short, they want to They don't want
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Speaker 1: to unleash an AI healthcare system unless they're ready to
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Speaker 1: control it, not afraid of that at all. Pillar number
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Speaker 1: two they want to design infrastructure and platforms for user needs.
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Speaker 1: They want to build what they call a one hhs
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Speaker 1: AI Integrated comments, which is basically a shared space where
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Speaker 1: all the tools, data and computing power for the AI
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Speaker 1: is in one place, so every agency isn't out there
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Speaker 1: reinventing the wheel. They explicitly say all the data has
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Speaker 1: to follow what they call the fair principles, which is
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Speaker 1: an acronym for findable, accessible, interoperable, and reusable. Pillar number
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Speaker 1: three they described in their blueprint, is to promote work,
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Speaker 1: workforce development, and burden production for efficiency, which basically means
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Speaker 1: that the agency acknowledges AI won't help anyone if they're
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Speaker 1: using it in a way that they don't understand or
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Speaker 1: don't understand how it works in general, so they want
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Speaker 1: widespread training from leadership down to the frontline staff to
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Speaker 1: reduce administrative burden. They're saying the tools should essentially fit
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Speaker 1: the workers and not the other way around. Pillar number
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Speaker 1: four foster health and research and reproducibility through gold standard science.
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Speaker 1: The agency ties the whole strategy to again, I roll
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Speaker 1: here gold standard science, which they imply anything AI touches,
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Speaker 1: from data analysis to research should be transparent, reproducible, and rigorous.
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Speaker 1: And the last pillar Pillar number five. They describe as
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Speaker 1: they want to ensure care and public health delivery and
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Speaker 1: modernization for better outcomes. This is the part that everyone
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Speaker 1: cares about. The strategy says AIS role and care and
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Speaker 1: public health delivery should be outcomes first, meaning they are
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Speaker 1: only interested in tools that clearly improve patient outcomes, population health,
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Speaker 1: or service delivery. So the big takeaways of this article
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Speaker 1: when you take a step back and try to look
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Speaker 1: at it to the big picture, is that AI. They're
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Speaker 1: saying AI is coming, It's here, and if they don't
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Speaker 1: control it, ordinate it, and train people how to use
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Speaker 1: it safely, they're going to have problem. To be clear,
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Speaker 1: this is not a clinical playbook, this is not a
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Speaker 1: product rollout. It's the federal government trying to create structure
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Speaker 1: before AI gets ahead of them. And whether you're excited
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Speaker 1: or nervous about it really depends on how much you
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Speaker 1: trusted people writing the rules. So there's a lot to
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Speaker 1: go over there. So discussion now, I want to I
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Speaker 1: want to hear your guys thoughts here. What do you
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Speaker 1: guys think AI's rule is in healthcare?
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Speaker 4: So I kind of like, you know what they're doing,
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Speaker 4: you know, getting ahead of it, and kind of come
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Speaker 4: up with a plan for how to handle AI roll out,
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Speaker 4: and I think they're going about it mostly in the
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Speaker 4: right way. They want to use it as a tool
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Speaker 4: to assist the current workforce, whatever their jobs may be.
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Speaker 4: Ideally make things more efficient, make things flow better, make
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Speaker 4: things go a little bit fast there maybe, So I like,
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Speaker 4: I kind of like some of the things that I'm
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Speaker 4: hearing in this, but like you say, it has to
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Speaker 4: be you know, done right, done correctly right. They have
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Speaker 4: to really have the right people behind it with good
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Speaker 4: intentions and not try to control things too much. But also,
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Speaker 4: like I say, I want to protect us, you know,
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Speaker 4: do a good job trying to keep it from harming
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Speaker 4: us or our patients. So yeah, I think they're on
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Speaker 4: the right track using it as a tool for the
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Speaker 4: employees and workforce.
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Speaker 1: But where do you think AI should be using healthcare though?
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Speaker 4: Like what is its place? I don't know, like a
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Speaker 4: specific place, you know.
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Speaker 2: The first thing that popped into me was like data
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Speaker 2: research or like being able to pull specific things. It's like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of this thing. Are these these two side
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Speaker 2: effects are crossing or something's going on and trying to
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Speaker 2: be able to pull information to them you know, in
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Speaker 2: the our case, the pharmacist or would be whoever is
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Speaker 2: able to then go through that kind of abbreviated data
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Speaker 2: or give ideas on where to go from there, just
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Speaker 2: as speeding references or research essentially in an individual quick thing.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely agree with you, Sam. I think
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Speaker 1: AI's place right now, especially is in data analysis because
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Speaker 1: you can put in a bunch of stuff in at
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Speaker 1: once and it can spit you out some equations, some
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Speaker 1: statistics to do research. Of course, there's some rules. Do
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Speaker 1: you have to be careful about because hippa is always
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Speaker 1: something of concern, so once you put it in the AI,
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Speaker 1: it's stuck there, so you have to be careful. And
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Speaker 1: also why I think it's very concerning about how much
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Speaker 1: you use AI in healthcare because there obviously has to
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Speaker 1: be a lot of encryption behind it. Just my own
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Speaker 1: thoughts there. But bigger question here and this is and
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Speaker 1: I'm sure you could tell from my sas and my
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Speaker 1: snarkiness for reading some of these points. Do you guys
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Speaker 1: trust the federal government to manage AI safely?
8:03
Speaker 4: Why?
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Speaker 2: Or why not?
8:08
Speaker 3: Say it?
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Speaker 4: It's gonna be hard.
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Speaker 2: It's gonna be hard for anyone to manage it. It
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Speaker 2: doesn't matter what government, who's who's in there, uh, what state, country,
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Speaker 2: It's gonna be so big, so many avenues, so many
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Speaker 2: apps that people can create to to do their own
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Speaker 2: AI that it's it's gonna be pretty hard for anyone
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Speaker 2: to really control it. So, I mean, the government can
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Speaker 2: can say these things unless they have some ability to
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Speaker 2: truly you know, affect the Internet. Just think about it
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Speaker 2: as the Internet, like how well does a government control
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Speaker 2: the Internet? Can they really control? It's gonna be it's
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Speaker 2: probably gonna be similar to that where you're you're got
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Speaker 2: you can make some rules, you can have things that
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Speaker 2: are blocked. Realistically, I don't I don't see anyone being
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Speaker 2: able to block or stop this. They're they're you know,
9:03
Speaker 2: trying to guide it a little bit. Sounds like, you know,
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Speaker 2: they're not really coming down with a hammer on shutting
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Speaker 2: down AI or can't have trying to AI must destroy
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Speaker 2: you know, it's just going to be there's no stopping
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Speaker 2: it is most likely.
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Speaker 1: Okay, what are your thoughts there?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, it's hard to trust our government with
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Speaker 4: the little things, I mean, with some of the things
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Speaker 4: they do now right, So definitely will be difficult to
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Speaker 4: trust them with AI as well, just because they've done
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Speaker 4: bad things in the past and someone that shows you
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Speaker 4: their hand, they you know it's capable of doing it again. Right,
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Speaker 4: So trust is probably not the best word because most
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Speaker 4: people don't trust anyone because you know, you never know
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Speaker 4: what people are going to do to you, or what
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Speaker 4: the government is going to do to you, or what
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Speaker 4: they're going to do with AI. So yeah, it's just
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Speaker 4: hard to fully trust anybody. But I do like that
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Speaker 4: they're trying to not necessarily control it, but just manage
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Speaker 4: it to where it's not like the wild out wist
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Speaker 4: of AI.
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Speaker 1: I agree with you, there definitely needs to be rules
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Speaker 1: in place so people aren't just doing all silly Nelly online.
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Speaker 4: I think my.
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Speaker 1: Concerns here is the article says it wants to follow
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Speaker 1: gold standard science. Right, So if the federal government is
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Speaker 1: deciding what is gold standard science, and they already have
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Speaker 1: a history of going against gold standard science, and now
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Speaker 1: you're using this AI system that they're telling you this
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Speaker 1: is what you have to do to make your clinical decisions,
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Speaker 1: and they're deciding what gold standard science is when they
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Speaker 1: haven't been following the scientific process to begin with. That
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Speaker 1: is concerning, and I think that is going to largely
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Speaker 1: affect patient outcomes. They're not going to get the best
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Speaker 1: best ones possible. Moreover, the thing is like, when it
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Speaker 1: comes to helping people, what separates pharmacists, physicians, nurses from
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Speaker 1: what AI can do is the clinical thinking and the reasoning, like, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I can spit out data. It can, but you know,
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Speaker 1: it's not going to be able to rationalize like, oh,
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Speaker 1: this person has X y Z going on at home too,
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Speaker 1: you know, all these other factors going on in their life.
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Speaker 1: Like AI is not going to know that. It's it
11:36
Speaker 1: doesn't have any empathy. It's programmed to say something yet.
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Speaker 1: But the thing is like AI is programmed to say something,
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Speaker 1: So if you are relying on what it is telling you,
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Speaker 1: you kind of have to be very skeptical about the
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Speaker 1: information you're getting, especially when the people writing the rules
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Speaker 1: and saying what the validated information is is kind of
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Speaker 1: questionable when it comes to health care and science right now.
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Speaker 4: So i'd be like demolition Man.
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Speaker 2: You guys know that, Wesley Snipes, Yeah, they don't. So
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Speaker 2: it's like it goes into the future. But essentially they
12:14
Speaker 2: all have like these little computers and they speak into
12:17
Speaker 2: it or tell what's happening. So it's like cops, like
12:20
Speaker 2: there's an assailant here and he's agitated, and it tells
12:23
Speaker 2: him what to say, like walk up and say do
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Speaker 2: this or else, and so like walks them through everything.
12:30
Speaker 1: I have to catch that movie's good.
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Speaker 2: Demolition Man.
12:35
Speaker 1: Demolition Man. Okay, all right, I'm gonna catch it this weekend.
12:39
Speaker 1: All right, all right, all right, Demolition Man.
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Speaker 2: But that's what made me think of with your your
12:45
Speaker 2: kind of basic or following the an AI, I was
12:49
Speaker 2: just putting an input and doing whatever it says.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, five concerns. So we'll see how this pans out. Well,
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Speaker 1: that is my pick for are Big News of twenty
13:02
Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm Robbie Bossi with Xavierlona, just kidding with
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Speaker 1: Xavier Hill and Samlona signing off. Thanks, thank you very much.
13:11
Speaker 3: You're listening to Rated r Racks for the day.
13:17
Speaker 4: All right, guys, we'll move over to the next segment.
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Speaker 4: This is the Rated RX podcast, affiliates of the Pharmacy
13:25
Speaker 4: Podcast Network. I'm here today with Robbie Obossi and Samlona,
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Speaker 4: and today we're talking about things in twenty twenty five
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Speaker 4: Big articles in twenty twenty five are changes in twenty
13:37
Speaker 4: twenty five that you know had a little bit of bang,
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Speaker 4: and we want to talk about it and discuss some
13:44
Speaker 4: of these things before the year ends. In our final episode,
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Speaker 4: just know we're live on YouTube. Shout out to everyone
13:50
Speaker 4: out there, how y'all doing. I hope you guys are
13:52
Speaker 4: gonna enjoy sitting with us.
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Speaker 1: So we go.
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Speaker 4: My segment I titled it when vaccine policy changes, who
14:01
Speaker 4: pays the price? Okay? So that title is based off
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Speaker 4: the recent recommendations to roll back the universal hepatitis be
14:14
Speaker 4: shot at birth, and I also want to talk a
14:18
Speaker 4: little bit about why many public health experts say that
14:22
Speaker 4: this could possibly be a dangerous ship. So when when
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Speaker 4: you first heard that ACIP, which is the organization that
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Speaker 4: makes the vaccination recommendations, was moving away from universal newborn
14:38
Speaker 4: Hepatitis V vaccination at birth. What was your first reaction, guys?
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Speaker 4: Here we go.
14:46
Speaker 1: I was very, very shocked, because I don't know how
14:52
Speaker 1: much you guys been following the whole the pole politics
14:54
Speaker 1: stuff in general. I follow it a lot. Disclaimer, I'm
14:58
Speaker 1: a registered independent because I hate both sides, so I
15:00
Speaker 1: like to think objectively here instead of joined the bandwagon.
15:04
Speaker 1: But I can't remember what the senator's name, but he
15:07
Speaker 1: had he basically voted RFK Jr. In with the premise
15:11
Speaker 1: that he would not roll back this vaccine recommendation. And
15:14
Speaker 1: he was the deciding vote. Who was the deciding vote?
15:17
Speaker 1: And he was promised up and down. And so my
15:21
Speaker 1: thoughts is that, holy ship, we elected a liar. So
15:26
Speaker 1: that's my thoughts. But aren't all politicians flyers?
15:29
Speaker 4: For sure?
15:30
Speaker 1: What's that? What's that old saying? It's uh, you can
15:32
Speaker 1: tell politicians lying where their lips are moving, But for real,
15:39
Speaker 1: it is scary and concerning now.
15:41
Speaker 4: It's we're not.
15:42
Speaker 1: Going to see these unfortunately, these effects of this recommendation
15:46
Speaker 1: roll back until way later in life. Kids are going
15:49
Speaker 1: to be missed, there's going to be higher rates of hepatitis,
15:52
Speaker 1: and unfortunately there's there's only going to be victims from
15:55
Speaker 1: this choice.
15:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's going to be it's going to
16:02
Speaker 2: hurt kids. I mean, as the bottom line, it's going
16:05
Speaker 2: to hurt the population by rolling these back. These got
16:09
Speaker 2: in place, you know, ranging years ago to you know,
16:13
Speaker 2: different things, but they people now don't really see those
16:21
Speaker 2: interactions experiences. What happened, What happens when before vaccines, what
16:26
Speaker 2: it was like in a healthcare setting, and I think
16:30
Speaker 2: it's been We've been very fortunate to have these, and
16:33
Speaker 2: so I think when these policies are coming in like
16:36
Speaker 2: this and things are changing that in this case, kids
16:41
Speaker 2: are going to be hurt by it and there's going
16:44
Speaker 2: to be long term effects. Who knows if this keeps
16:48
Speaker 2: rolling out and you know it rolls over to a
16:51
Speaker 2: bunch of other things on those changes and how long
16:53
Speaker 2: it takes. But it's you know, it's not politics, and
16:57
Speaker 2: as you're saying, it's science, like these these are here
17:01
Speaker 2: for a reason. It's not having to do with your
17:04
Speaker 2: affiliation of your party or even your country being us
17:11
Speaker 2: like this is to help people, and it's gonna be
17:14
Speaker 2: it's gonna be tough, it's gonna suck for a number
17:17
Speaker 2: of people.
17:19
Speaker 4: Just pick it back and off that going over some
17:22
Speaker 4: of the possible things that can happen. So just thinking
17:26
Speaker 4: about it. This change happened recently, this is December twenty
17:29
Speaker 4: twenty five. They voted to change this recommendation. Some people
17:32
Speaker 4: vote against it, a majority voted for it. But the
17:36
Speaker 4: recommendation was that if the infants who are born to
17:40
Speaker 4: mothers who test negative for hepatitis B, they no longer
17:45
Speaker 4: automatically have to get the vaccine at birth. Instead, it's
17:51
Speaker 4: now individual based decision, right. I mean, the parent can
17:56
Speaker 4: delay the first dose for up to two months later,
17:59
Speaker 4: so they still have to get the dose to follow
18:02
Speaker 4: the vaccine schedule, but the parent has the option to
18:05
Speaker 4: wait a little bit after birth, like not right away
18:09
Speaker 4: and delay that a little bit. So, I mean for
18:13
Speaker 4: some parents, they like, dang, so as the baby get
18:15
Speaker 4: out the wound, you know, you don't give them a shot,
18:18
Speaker 4: so they're like, oh, can we just wait a couple
18:19
Speaker 4: of days. Some people might you know, some people might
18:21
Speaker 4: like this, you know, wait a couple of days and
18:23
Speaker 4: then get the shot. But you can wait up to
18:26
Speaker 4: two months with this. But if you delay it, the
18:31
Speaker 4: newborn is at risk for a lot of things. And
18:35
Speaker 4: these are some of the side effects that Sam was
18:37
Speaker 4: talking about, things that can get us into trouble. Right,
18:41
Speaker 4: the newborns can get hepatitis B through birth exposure that
18:45
Speaker 4: they don't get it right away, so they can have it,
18:47
Speaker 4: you know, coming out of the birth canal. But they
18:49
Speaker 4: didn't test the mother properly and they didn't know she
18:51
Speaker 4: was being negative. Ideally they would test that beforehand. But
18:56
Speaker 4: you know, let's say parent, you know this came in
19:01
Speaker 4: for emergency section. They theyn't get to check all that.
19:04
Speaker 4: They can get it from household contacts, so other family
19:06
Speaker 4: members who may have been exposed to heptites B. They
19:09
Speaker 4: can get it from caregivers who may be in your
19:12
Speaker 4: home taking care of other family members. They can get
19:15
Speaker 4: it from contaminated blood or body fluids, A lot of
19:17
Speaker 4: that's going around in the hospital, and then other rare
19:20
Speaker 4: you know, medical errors that possibly happen. So I mean
19:24
Speaker 4: it increases their chances of getting it, maybe not a lot,
19:27
Speaker 4: but any any increases too much. Right. But the scary
19:32
Speaker 4: part is if newborn gets hepatitis B, there's a ninety
19:37
Speaker 4: percent chance that they develop a chronic, lifelong infection with
19:41
Speaker 4: heptites B. It's pretty hot chan ninety percent that's a
19:44
Speaker 4: a right, So you have all chance I'm having a
19:47
Speaker 4: lifelong in collection and that can lead to cirrhosis, which
19:51
Speaker 4: is terrible damage to your liver, right liver cancer and
19:58
Speaker 4: a lifetime of complications. So rolling back a universal newborn
20:02
Speaker 4: vaccine could lead to a lot of preventable infections and issues. That,
20:07
Speaker 4: you know, we could have stopped right, that's all. We
20:10
Speaker 4: created vaccines to stop something that's preventable. Piggybag and off that.
20:14
Speaker 4: Do you guys think the public realizes how much this
20:18
Speaker 4: political ideology and these you know, political changes are starting
20:23
Speaker 4: to influence medical recommendations. You think the public understands what's
20:28
Speaker 4: happening because the healthcare refreshimon you know, you see a
20:30
Speaker 4: lot of people posting on YouTube with TikTok and Twitter,
20:33
Speaker 4: you know, kind of outraged by this. Do you think
20:35
Speaker 4: the public understands this?
20:39
Speaker 1: I think it depends on the person and and I
20:43
Speaker 1: think we live in the side where we see the
20:46
Speaker 1: consequences of it. But I've seen and I don't know
20:50
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen. There's another uh, doctor doctor
20:53
Speaker 1: Mike also a social media influencer great content.
20:57
Speaker 4: Shout out to doctor Mike.
20:59
Speaker 1: I know these people who want less recommendations because it'll
21:03
Speaker 1: actually have debates against them, These people who want our
21:07
Speaker 1: unity to do more. So these people exist. So I
21:11
Speaker 1: do think people do know, but I don't think they
21:14
Speaker 1: understand the real consequences of what it's doing.
21:20
Speaker 2: I would probably agree about that. It's probably for a
21:24
Speaker 2: number of people comes down to like a n us
21:27
Speaker 2: versus them mentality. And that's tough when it comes to
21:32
Speaker 2: the protocols and healthcare, because you you think you're on
21:36
Speaker 2: the right side. You think you're you're making decisions for
21:39
Speaker 2: the right reasons, and you know, we're we're trying to
21:43
Speaker 2: look objectively here on the science side and healthcare, and
21:47
Speaker 2: and you know, in this case kids, we're talking about
21:50
Speaker 2: newborn's kids, lifetongue, lifelong cirrhosis disease. So you're saying they
21:55
Speaker 2: got to live with and deal with that. It's it's
21:59
Speaker 2: good to be. As I said earlier, it's going to
22:01
Speaker 2: be tough for them and for families. And it's by
22:05
Speaker 2: the time you figure this out and they you know,
22:08
Speaker 2: that individual family interacts with this or has ends up
22:12
Speaker 2: being on the wrong side of this, it's going to
22:13
Speaker 2: be too late for them, you know. And how many
22:15
Speaker 2: how many of those have to happen before this changes.
22:18
Speaker 2: So you know, in this case, you know, we're talking
22:20
Speaker 2: about a couple of months. You know, I'm sure at
22:23
Speaker 2: some point you know, I guess I didn't read and
22:25
Speaker 2: maybe you guys know, if there was a clinical reasoning
22:29
Speaker 2: between you know, zero and sixty days or zero and
22:33
Speaker 2: ninety days on why they're choosing these time points for them,
22:36
Speaker 2: that is guiding a policy change like this when it
22:39
Speaker 2: should be you know, clinical based, and how much is
22:42
Speaker 2: that going to change on other things that were originally
22:45
Speaker 2: clinical based and might get you know, moved into some
22:48
Speaker 2: sort of political change for that and it's gonna you know,
22:54
Speaker 2: cost your cost, your patience down the road.
22:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, So what does this mean for parents out there?
23:04
Speaker 4: You know, Sam, you and I may be having kids
23:08
Speaker 4: in the future, Robbie, you may want to know the kid.
23:11
Speaker 4: What would you say, you know, to a parent who's
23:14
Speaker 4: on the fence and thinking, well, if the burth does
23:18
Speaker 4: you know at the birth those isn't required you know,
23:21
Speaker 4: maybe it's not that important.
23:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tough to address because I could see why
23:30
Speaker 1: they would think that, like it's not required to do
23:33
Speaker 1: I do I really need it at all?
23:35
Speaker 3: Right?
23:36
Speaker 1: And I think why this is concerning in my eyes is, yeah,
23:41
Speaker 1: you have two months to go get the shot. But
23:43
Speaker 1: a lot happens when they have a new born, you know,
23:46
Speaker 1: like sometimes in misappointments, depending on the mother's birth you know, postpartum,
23:51
Speaker 1: his heart and so it doesn't make sense to do
23:54
Speaker 1: it later when they don't know what their life is
23:57
Speaker 1: going to look like in two months. Like a lot
23:59
Speaker 1: freaking happens in that two months. So as a parent,
24:04
Speaker 1: I can tell you it was all blur. It was
24:06
Speaker 1: all BLURW. I tried the best, and as a newborn parent,
24:10
Speaker 1: I did rely a lot on what the doctor said
24:12
Speaker 1: because like, yes, I'm a pharmacist, but I'm also like
24:15
Speaker 1: like oh, trying to figure it all out. And also
24:19
Speaker 1: because I was a pharmacist, I knew better and I
24:21
Speaker 1: knew to follow these recommendations the way I did it.
24:24
Speaker 1: But it is concerning because I don't think the average
24:27
Speaker 1: person knows in a sense of like is this urgent?
24:32
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's it's concerning. It's concerning, And.
24:36
Speaker 2: I think Robbie brings up a good point about what,
24:40
Speaker 2: you know, we're making these assumptions with these policies on
24:46
Speaker 2: the you know, the mother, the family, the newborn. We'll
24:49
Speaker 2: be back at two months, at six months. You know,
24:52
Speaker 2: I don't know what the standard protocol is, but all
24:55
Speaker 2: those checkpoints that they'll be back and you know what
24:59
Speaker 2: what do data separately to this, You know, what's the
25:02
Speaker 2: data on how many of those appointments are made across
25:06
Speaker 2: you know, the US or or the world for that matter.
25:08
Speaker 4: You know, really we're talking in the US here.
25:10
Speaker 2: But I remember in school talking about you know, mothers
25:14
Speaker 2: that were pregnant and they had, you know, protocols leading
25:20
Speaker 2: up and there was the little asterisk on theres like
25:23
Speaker 2: what is this? What are they talking about on changing
25:25
Speaker 2: this protocol? And it's pretty much like, oh, you know,
25:28
Speaker 2: we don't think this mom is going to be coming
25:31
Speaker 2: back again before pregnancy or you know, they've already told us.
25:35
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, this is my only appointments before we're
25:37
Speaker 2: going to have the baby, and so it's there. There
25:41
Speaker 2: are times when, yeah, it's recognized we're not going to
25:44
Speaker 2: be able to follow those time points for them, you know,
25:48
Speaker 2: to come in. So yeah, how many parents are completely
25:51
Speaker 2: fine with Okay, yeah, let's let's do the two months
25:53
Speaker 2: and then and then what Robbie is saying, Oh, you know,
25:57
Speaker 2: we got busy, something happened, or we got COVID, couldn't
26:00
Speaker 2: make it in and ended up being three months, four months,
26:03
Speaker 2: comes they come back at six months.
26:04
Speaker 6: You know now.
26:05
Speaker 2: That that newborn is six months, having that kind of
26:10
Speaker 2: assured time point at birth that they're getting getting that
26:17
Speaker 2: vaccine for them.
26:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great points, Sam. I mean it can lead
26:22
Speaker 4: to confusion, which can lead to misdoses, which can delay
26:25
Speaker 4: immunity and increase infection rates, which is that we don't
26:29
Speaker 4: want that. So wrapping up, you guys do some more
26:34
Speaker 4: research and figure out the best thing for you as
26:37
Speaker 4: a parent. We recommend you know, getting the vaccine right
26:41
Speaker 4: away to prevent you from having to worry about coming
26:44
Speaker 4: back too much. And that'll be it for the segment.
26:47
Speaker 4: Thank you guys for listening in. I hope you learn
26:50
Speaker 4: something new. Make sure you follow us on YouTube, social media,
26:54
Speaker 4: all the social Instagram, all the socials. Tune into our lives.
26:59
Speaker 4: We're starting live starting now, so yeah, check back with
27:03
Speaker 4: us and we're out. All right, let me take over
27:07
Speaker 4: for you.
27:07
Speaker 2: Then this is Sam with the Rated RX podcast here
27:12
Speaker 2: with Robbie and Xavier, an affiliation with the Pharmacy Podcast
27:16
Speaker 2: Network and continuing on our subject here ending the year
27:22
Speaker 2: for big, big changes, big things that have happened in
27:25
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five and so for me, I'm talking GLP
27:30
Speaker 2: ones and a kind of a leading off with an
27:34
Speaker 2: article and then kind of circling back to it kind
27:36
Speaker 2: of over the years. But there is a company here,
27:40
Speaker 2: Wave Life Sciences announced this was just a couple of
27:43
Speaker 2: days ago, so still here in December of their phase
27:48
Speaker 2: one clinical trial of a med that they're currently calling
27:51
Speaker 2: WVE double O seven. We got a double O seven
27:55
Speaker 2: med here that is a single dose kind of GLP
28:01
Speaker 2: one are similar to GLP one agonist that is a
28:05
Speaker 2: once every ninety day dosing currently, so they do a
28:10
Speaker 2: single dosing for this, and the results on this are
28:18
Speaker 2: essentially showing that it has a reduction of both baseline
28:23
Speaker 2: visceral fats total body fat, and an increase in lean
28:28
Speaker 2: muscle mass. So it's pretty much the first one that
28:30
Speaker 2: is actually increasing muscle mass with it, which is a
28:34
Speaker 2: big difference between everything else that's been going on on there.
28:38
Speaker 2: And so this is still phase one and you know,
28:41
Speaker 2: for those listening, that means this is going to be
28:45
Speaker 2: years away if ever that this comes out, But realizing
28:50
Speaker 2: that it could be it could be a shift in
28:53
Speaker 2: this GLP one so kind of looking over the progress
28:58
Speaker 2: of that, and we circle back to to meds in general.
29:02
Speaker 4: I remember being.
29:03
Speaker 2: In pharmacy school and in our it was a third
29:06
Speaker 2: or fourth year having to do a report on a
29:08
Speaker 2: med and it was some glue tide and it had
29:11
Speaker 2: just come out and the injectable, you know, at this
29:14
Speaker 2: time it was just for diabetes and it was you know,
29:18
Speaker 2: once weekly dosing instead of once daily. It dropped the
29:21
Speaker 2: side effects some and that was kind of the big
29:23
Speaker 2: thing that it was had a little bit better side
29:26
Speaker 2: effect profile and and that was kind of you know,
29:28
Speaker 2: it was kind of cool, but but that was kind
29:31
Speaker 2: of kind of it. And then fast forward now covid, uh,
29:36
Speaker 2: the GLP one was just blowing up, and that kind
29:41
Speaker 2: of market demand that's had had kind of taken us over.
29:45
Speaker 2: And I know you've guys have seen it too, I
29:47
Speaker 2: know Robbie talking about you know, maybe even adding it
29:52
Speaker 2: into psycho patient protocols with having a lot of weight
29:55
Speaker 2: weight gain issues with other meds and something that you've
29:58
Speaker 2: thought would be a pretty contagious to patients. But now
30:02
Speaker 2: everybody knows about it. It's on you know, social media
30:07
Speaker 2: wellness celebrities is where pretty much first kind of really
30:12
Speaker 2: blew up. And then you know, pharmacy shortages compounding came
30:17
Speaker 2: in for a couple of years after COVID and kind
30:20
Speaker 2: of part of that when there were shortages and you know,
30:24
Speaker 2: me being a compounding pharmacist. We didn't start out with
30:27
Speaker 2: that for quite a while, but just continually got requests
30:31
Speaker 2: for it over and over and finally looked into it.
30:34
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, you know, we'll we'll start doing this
30:37
Speaker 2: and it just continues continues to blow up. And you
30:41
Speaker 2: know with those we've seen the introduction of them trezepetide
30:45
Speaker 2: on top of the someone glue tide and those being
30:47
Speaker 2: injectables and still having shortage issues with those running into FDA.
30:54
Speaker 2: You know, also kind of not knowing what to do,
30:57
Speaker 2: kind of putting out warnings in there what to do
30:59
Speaker 2: with their not they're not stopping it, and they they're
31:03
Speaker 2: recognizing those shortages. Uh, and then continuing across those ZA
31:08
Speaker 2: and uh the v A are you were you seeing
31:12
Speaker 2: more people on that or more people discussions on that?
31:14
Speaker 2: I know you're a little older population. Oh yeah, is
31:17
Speaker 2: that still coming up?
31:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're still using it. I know we do a
31:20
Speaker 4: lot of the berriactic surgeries at our hospital. A lot
31:22
Speaker 4: of people from other vas come to r V A
31:24
Speaker 4: beryactic surgery. But starting to see you a lot of
31:27
Speaker 4: more a lot more patients ontop ones and you know
31:30
Speaker 4: when they come in, we got to like, Okay, when
31:32
Speaker 4: what day of the week do you take your dose?
31:34
Speaker 4: And you try to make sure we continue giving it
31:37
Speaker 4: at the same time unless they're like super sick toom
31:40
Speaker 4: we just hold off on it. But and then we're
31:42
Speaker 4: also seeing a lot of people, you know with side effects.
31:45
Speaker 4: You know, people who taking GLP ones, you know, without
31:49
Speaker 4: a doctor. You know, they get it from a friend
31:51
Speaker 4: or something, and they getting a lot of nausea, bomiting
31:53
Speaker 4: and coming to the hospital from the side effects. They're
31:56
Speaker 4: taking doses too high because they see the celebrities all
31:59
Speaker 4: skinny and beautiful, and you know they're copying that to them.
32:02
Speaker 4: So the crazy it's still wild mm hmmm for sure.
32:08
Speaker 2: And then you know, circling back to the newer meds,
32:12
Speaker 2: so things that are still investigational at the moment. Read
32:16
Speaker 2: a true Tide is one of the newer ones that's
32:19
Speaker 2: a phase three right now but also un injectable, but
32:22
Speaker 2: it's essentially shown a little bit more weight loss than
32:25
Speaker 2: through zeppetide. So we're like in the mid mid twenties
32:30
Speaker 2: day you seem to get all excited when I said
32:31
Speaker 2: that word. Is that something you remember in your bingo card?
32:34
Speaker 4: No? No, so I'm on X. I do a lot
32:38
Speaker 4: of investing and stuff with X. But there are some
32:40
Speaker 4: people on X that they're getting this Reddit True Tide
32:45
Speaker 4: supplement from somewhere. They brought it from somewhere and they're
32:47
Speaker 4: talking about how it's helping them lose weight and gay
32:49
Speaker 4: and gay muscle strength. So people are buying this now
32:53
Speaker 4: before they even approve and they're using it.
32:57
Speaker 2: I was like, what, yeah, we get card this, but
33:02
Speaker 2: we can actually buy the powder so we could compound it.
33:06
Speaker 2: It's you know, not FDA approved yet, still in phase three,
33:09
Speaker 2: so a lot of that things are still you know,
33:11
Speaker 2: not for human use or for research only kind of things,
33:16
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure specifically where people are getting it.
33:19
Speaker 2: We've had prescribers ask us about it, and it's like,
33:22
Speaker 2: I mean, we could get it.
33:23
Speaker 4: It's way more.
33:24
Speaker 2: Expensive at current what we can get, but it's also
33:27
Speaker 2: it's not on an approved list, Like we're not gonna
33:30
Speaker 2: compound this for you, but I could see it on
33:33
Speaker 2: being able to order order the powder. But I'm sorry,
33:38
Speaker 2: but yeah, people people are getting it, and you know,
33:40
Speaker 2: they're doing all sorts of things, so I know, well,
33:43
Speaker 2: we can touch on that a little bit when we
33:45
Speaker 2: talk about kind of pricing of these things, but you know,
33:47
Speaker 2: how much are people just wanting the lowest price and
33:51
Speaker 2: not worried about where they're getting just results? And you
33:55
Speaker 2: know how much is it just a scam of buying
33:59
Speaker 2: something online that's no script. It's like, yeah, you're probably
34:03
Speaker 2: not getting the real thing there. But you know, another
34:07
Speaker 2: one moving on is oral use. So all these have
34:11
Speaker 2: been injectable, so I was kind of curious on and
34:15
Speaker 2: if you guys have had any experience or thought of
34:19
Speaker 2: this opening up into your practices of having people want
34:24
Speaker 2: an oral version. But the or for Glippern is a
34:31
Speaker 2: is currently you're just finished or just finishing up a
34:34
Speaker 2: phase three. So I'm guessing I think they're saying maybe
34:37
Speaker 2: the next year or so from Eli Lilly that this
34:40
Speaker 2: one's going to be coming out. But it's a once
34:42
Speaker 2: daily tablet. These are non peptiz so it's as much
34:46
Speaker 2: smaller molecule, so ideally it makes it easier to manufacture,
34:51
Speaker 2: so potentially some lower price points on this. Also because
34:55
Speaker 2: of the smaller molecule makes it so you know, with
34:58
Speaker 2: or without food anytime with the day where some of
35:02
Speaker 2: glue tide oral you know had to be on an
35:04
Speaker 2: empty stomach, bigger molecule a peptide, it's a little harder
35:07
Speaker 2: to absorb a little more issues there, So hopefully you
35:12
Speaker 2: know it is something that that comes on. If I
35:15
Speaker 2: pull up here Eli Lilly's info, they're showing that it is.
35:20
Speaker 2: They're get the plan to a file for the weight
35:23
Speaker 2: loss side of it by late twenty twenty five and
35:27
Speaker 2: then following that with the diabetes, so they're actually looking
35:33
Speaker 2: to push out a weight loss version first followed by.
35:40
Speaker 4: Diabetes versions.
35:41
Speaker 2: So it kind of shows you, you know, what they're
35:43
Speaker 2: what they're pointing to or where that that side is
35:45
Speaker 2: pushing from. But with those a little less weight loss results.
35:52
Speaker 2: So we're looking at low low ten percent, low teens
35:57
Speaker 2: versus you know, the injectables are in the low twenties
36:00
Speaker 2: for that. But it is an oral version. So bringing
36:04
Speaker 2: that back to you, guys, do you think you've got
36:06
Speaker 2: patients that would want this oral version or that injectable
36:11
Speaker 2: has been something that's that's they've been afraid of and
36:14
Speaker 2: not wanting to do versus daily tablet.
36:19
Speaker 1: Well, my setting is a little unique because we try
36:23
Speaker 1: to avoid injectables and acute psychiatric setting, so we prefer orals,
36:28
Speaker 1: but we face different challenges. And it's not that they
36:32
Speaker 1: don't want to take the medication. Well sometimes it is.
36:34
Speaker 1: It's just like settings, let's be real, But it's not
36:38
Speaker 1: because of a lack of trying. It's more of a
36:41
Speaker 1: lack of insurance coverage. Our setting. We try to follow
36:44
Speaker 1: the medical formulary, and medical for a while was covering
36:49
Speaker 1: this medication rebelsas specifically, but they we just got a
36:54
Speaker 1: letter saying we're going to stop covering it and we
36:56
Speaker 1: can't use it anymore. So now we're sort of that
36:59
Speaker 1: a lot. It's like, oh crap, what are we going
37:02
Speaker 1: to do because like you know, half our patients already
37:04
Speaker 1: come overweight and we can't use met form and that's
37:07
Speaker 1: not going to do anything, and so we're sort of
37:11
Speaker 1: at a loss right now because it's like we can't
37:13
Speaker 1: give them an injectible, like that's just going to be
37:15
Speaker 1: too hard to coordinate, and we're not going to discharge
37:17
Speaker 1: them with an injectible, but the insurance won't cover the mismedication.
37:21
Speaker 1: So we're kind of we're in this kind of crappy
37:24
Speaker 1: limbo right now, and I wish we had an answer, I.
37:28
Speaker 2: Really do, so looking on Eli Lilly's web page for
37:34
Speaker 2: Lily Direct. There they're projecting that for their oral version,
37:38
Speaker 2: their starting doses will be at one and higher doses
37:43
Speaker 2: going up to three ninety nine. So I'm guessing that's
37:46
Speaker 2: gonna be per month. So do we feel that that's
37:50
Speaker 2: a reasonable price or we're still going to be missing
37:52
Speaker 2: the mark that these patients that we're trying to get
37:55
Speaker 2: cash pay. This is still way too much.
37:57
Speaker 4: For it's still a way too price.
38:02
Speaker 1: I mean, that's still way more expensive than going down
38:06
Speaker 1: to Mexico and picking up rebelsus. That's that's crazy to me,
38:09
Speaker 1: that like we're all excited about this because it's like
38:13
Speaker 1: a point of reference, right, like, oh my god, it's
38:15
Speaker 1: cheaper than what we know, when it's like it's still
38:17
Speaker 1: cheaper across the more.
38:19
Speaker 2: So that's yeah, And I get I get people calling
38:23
Speaker 2: me about things like this and like that low end
38:25
Speaker 2: price point, and it's like you got to realize, like, okay,
38:28
Speaker 2: that's for the first month and then you start moving
38:30
Speaker 2: your dose up, like when you're on this, your price
38:33
Speaker 2: point is going to be up at that three ninety nine.
38:34
Speaker 2: You're not you know, people see that one forty nine
38:38
Speaker 2: or for the Truzeppetite. I think Eli Lilly or the
38:40
Speaker 2: ones that were on there were like one eighty nine
38:42
Speaker 2: in a starting dose or something like that. It's like
38:44
Speaker 2: that's just your your first month and then you just
38:47
Speaker 2: start going up. So you need to realize when when
38:50
Speaker 2: they give you this range, you know they're currently saying
38:53
Speaker 2: one forty nine to three ninety nine, your true monthly
38:57
Speaker 2: cost is going to be up in that three point
38:58
Speaker 2: fifty to four dollars. That's what you're going to be paying.
39:01
Speaker 2: You're not paying one nine. That's going to go away quick.
39:04
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of that that people have
39:07
Speaker 2: a hard time and it's still that's a lot of money.
39:09
Speaker 2: Like yeah, they're they're trying to cut it down. They're
39:12
Speaker 2: a third a quarter of what it was. That's still
39:15
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a lot of people that this this
39:17
Speaker 2: whole point of of cash pay of those that can't
39:21
Speaker 2: afford it, that's still a lot. For Zay, you had
39:23
Speaker 2: something to say, I.
39:24
Speaker 4: Mean, it just feels like a scam. Weight loss drogs.
39:27
Speaker 4: It feels like a scam. Like it's like once you
39:30
Speaker 4: start taking them, you gotta keep taking them, you know,
39:33
Speaker 4: if you don't, you know, if you to keep the
39:34
Speaker 4: weight off right, because you can get the weight back quickly.
39:37
Speaker 4: If you stop it too fat right or something like that,
39:41
Speaker 4: it just feels like a scam. And then only the
39:42
Speaker 4: people that can afford it can get it right. So
39:45
Speaker 4: the celebrities, all of them scaling good, but they because
39:48
Speaker 4: they can afford to body these drogs. So it feels
39:52
Speaker 4: like a scale.
39:53
Speaker 1: But zay there. You can say the same thing about
39:56
Speaker 1: blood perform mets. Once you stop it, you rebound, right.
40:00
Speaker 1: So I think you have to redefine the way you
40:04
Speaker 1: look at obesity, and that actually is a problem that
40:06
Speaker 1: healthcare providers have. They kind of do have this prejudice
40:09
Speaker 1: towards people who are overweight, and it actually is well
40:12
Speaker 1: documented that overweight people tend to get worse care because
40:16
Speaker 1: of that attitude and mentality. So I it's true. Yeah,
40:20
Speaker 1: So we really do have to think about it as
40:23
Speaker 1: a disease because it is a disease and we do
40:25
Speaker 1: have to treat it and any other disease we would treat.
40:28
Speaker 1: So I don't know, we have to redefine the way
40:32
Speaker 1: we look at it.
40:34
Speaker 4: I understand. I mean, I just wish we would put
40:36
Speaker 4: more money and effort into preventing things and incentivizing exercise
40:42
Speaker 4: and making healthier foods for us for the people. So
40:46
Speaker 4: that's all new too.
40:48
Speaker 1: But here we are, but that's not what the people want.
40:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, But so then then we circle back to the
40:56
Speaker 2: new med, the WV double seven that they're uh, you know,
41:01
Speaker 2: trying to check into it being a every six month
41:04
Speaker 2: dose or annual dose, so you could potentially be having
41:08
Speaker 2: a single injection that you go in once a year
41:13
Speaker 2: and you know, being still controlling at least some point
41:21
Speaker 2: weight loss, retaining lean muscle mass, which is a big
41:25
Speaker 2: one because that that's one of the biggest issues with
41:28
Speaker 2: the current ones. So you know, are we moving that way?
41:32
Speaker 2: Is this you know, even going to pass clinical trials
41:34
Speaker 2: because again circling back to that phase one, that means
41:37
Speaker 2: this drug is maybe six years ten years out that
41:41
Speaker 2: it could be hitting the market. You know, who knows
41:44
Speaker 2: what what's uh, what the landscape is. Then they could
41:47
Speaker 2: be all in the crypto is AI crypto and be
41:50
Speaker 2: gone from that so it wouldn't even matter by.
41:53
Speaker 1: The time of day for us here.
41:56
Speaker 6: What it's on a lad m all right, Any final thoughts,
42:03
Speaker 6: Obesity is a disease, please exercise and eat right. If
42:09
Speaker 6: you can, please bounce it out all right?
42:15
Speaker 2: Well, please as well like and subscribe Facebook, Instagram, the Tiktoks.
42:20
Speaker 2: We like it all and appreciate any comments, questions. We'd
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Speaker 2: love to interact with you guys. This is Sam with
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Speaker 2: the Rated RX podcast. Sign it off, Berated
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Speaker 3: Our rection time for the day.