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CLASSIC: Did Robert E. Lee hate Confederate Memorials? · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's classic episode. Fellow Ridiculous Historians. We
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  Speaker 1: are as we record in the great metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia,
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  Speaker 1: and Atlanta, Georgia, like a lot of the Southern United States,
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  Speaker 1: has a bit of.
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  Speaker 2: A history to it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, not the best history. From eighteen sixty one
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  Speaker 3: to eighteen sixty five, the USA was participating in a
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  Speaker 3: little something called the War between the States. More than
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  Speaker 3: a century later, it remains America's bloodiest war, and it
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  Speaker 3: happens right here, oh man, among other places. But you know,
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  Speaker 3: it was a pretty pretty central location to the Civil War.
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  Speaker 3: And after the conflict concluded and the Union one the
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  Speaker 3: Confederate Army surrendered, General Robert E. Lee survived, and he
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  Speaker 3: found himself constantly a pro getting all these cold calls
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  Speaker 3: to endorse different memorials or statues or buildings and so on.
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  Speaker 3: And here's the thing, he hated it. Yeah, let's find
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  Speaker 3: out why.
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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio, Casey. Can we
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  Speaker 1: get a little bit of a kind of a Gettysburg
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  Speaker 1: vibe music, you know, like with the drums flute, there
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  Speaker 1: we go.
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  Speaker 3: I feel that cadence sounds like a nineties song. Like
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  Speaker 3: Jumper by Third Eye Blind.
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  Speaker 2: Or something in that from the centuries earlier. Yeah, yeah, totally.
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  Speaker 3: It's it's those marching drums that really give them feels up.
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  Speaker 1: And speaking of feels, thanks for tuning in. We hope
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  Speaker 1: that you are feeling great. Uh, this is ridiculous history.
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  Speaker 1: My name is Ben, my name is Nolan, and the
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  Speaker 1: man on the ones and twos as always give it
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  Speaker 1: up for our super producer, Casey Pegram. Today's episode does
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  Speaker 1: concern some heavy history that we we have to bring
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  Speaker 1: into the story, but we we don't have to get
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  Speaker 1: to too in the weeds about it. You've heard the
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  Speaker 1: story a thousand thousand times, whether or not you live
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  Speaker 1: in the US. It's a story of brother against brother,
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  Speaker 1: North and South, a nation divided, the US Civil War? Noel,
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  Speaker 1: how would you describe the US Civil War to someone
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  Speaker 1: who had never heard of it?
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  Speaker 3: It was real, main spirited man. Brothers were fighting brothers.
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  Speaker 3: Everyone was at each other throats. Is the North from
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  Speaker 3: the South? And why can't we all just get along?
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  Speaker 3: And wasn't any fun? Man? Wasn't any fun?
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  Speaker 1: From April twelfth, eighteen sixty one to April ninth, eighteen
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  Speaker 1: sixty five, this nation was embroiled in what would later
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  Speaker 1: become the most heavily documented research war in US history. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that too, So I think all of those facts together
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  Speaker 1: are are a pretty good high level look at at
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  Speaker 1: this conflict. But the ramifications of the US Civil War
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  Speaker 1: carry on in the United States today, not just in
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  Speaker 1: the southern part of the continent, but in the policies
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  Speaker 1: and the legislation created on a state and federal level.
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  Speaker 1: The war created several larger than life historical figures, people
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  Speaker 1: who were and are enormously influential here in twenty nineteen.
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  Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, for instance, right, the guy who brought everybody
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  Speaker 1: back together hell or high water. And today's episode is
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  Speaker 1: about another one of those giants, a man named Robert E.
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  Speaker 1: Lee or we can only imagine Bobby Lee to his friends.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, or maybe some people called him Eddie because his
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  Speaker 3: middle name, the E is for Edward.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I foind out.
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  Speaker 3: I know that was eating a lot of you up inside,
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  Speaker 3: not knowing what that E stood for?
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  Speaker 2: Was it ihorn?
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  Speaker 3: Exactly?
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  Speaker 2: So what do we know about Robert E. Lee?
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  Speaker 3: Well, like, okay, so he was born January nineteenth of
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  Speaker 3: eighteen oh seven, passed away October twelfth of eighteen seventy,
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  Speaker 3: and he was a decorated general. He was born in
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  Speaker 3: a plantation in Westmoreland County, Virginia, and he came from
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  Speaker 3: a military family. His father's name was Major General Henry
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  Speaker 3: Lee the third had a pretty dope nickname as it
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  Speaker 3: with lighthorse Harry, and he was also the governor of Virginia.
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  Speaker 3: And he was had Robert E. With his second wife,
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  Speaker 3: Ann Hill Carter, and he was raised in this very
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  Speaker 3: regimented military family, and he carried on that legacy with
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  Speaker 3: a career in military engineering. His father actually had some
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  Speaker 3: difficulties that he ended up in debtors prison due to
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  Speaker 3: some financial troubles he had while doing business in the
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  Speaker 3: West Indies. But Robert was left undeterred and he got
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  Speaker 3: himself a pretty choice spot at the prestigious military academy
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  Speaker 3: at West Points, where he graduated second in his class
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  Speaker 3: in eighteen twenty nine. But it would be some time
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  Speaker 3: before Lee actually ever saw battle. It wasn't until eighteen
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  Speaker 3: forty six in the War with Mexico that he was
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  Speaker 3: able to really get his feet, wet, his hands bloody,
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  Speaker 3: whatever the euphemism you'd like to use under General Winfield,
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  Speaker 3: Scott Brigade or whatever you want, regiments, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: He became a pretty well respected soldier for bravery, and
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  Speaker 3: he came out of that situation with the rank of
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  Speaker 3: colonel and then was appointed as a superintendent at West Point,
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  Speaker 3: where he served from eighteen fifty two to eighteen fifty five.
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  Speaker 3: But let's remember where this story starts. He was at
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  Speaker 3: heart a Southern gentleman raised on a Southern plantation, and
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  Speaker 3: was also a slave owner, and reports are that he
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  Speaker 3: was quite cruel to his slaves. In fact, in a
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  Speaker 3: biography brief biography on Battlefield dot org, the writer points
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  Speaker 3: out that during his tenure as the superintendent, which is
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  Speaker 3: like the head honcho of West Point, he would be
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  Speaker 3: overseeing cadets who would serve on both sides of the
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  Speaker 3: Civil War, both under him and in opposition to his forces,
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  Speaker 3: because as we know, he went on to become the
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  Speaker 3: general of the Confederate Forces, which were the forces that
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  Speaker 3: supported slavery.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So, one thing that people forgot pretty quickly after the
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  Speaker 1: close of the Civil War and Robert E. Lee's death
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  Speaker 1: is that he was by no means a perfect man.
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  Speaker 1: There are a lot of myths about lee that are
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  Speaker 1: still circulating today, one of those being that he was
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  Speaker 1: opposed to slavery. After the Civil War, he did attempt
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  Speaker 1: to present himself as always having been opposed to slavery.
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  Speaker 2: In an interview.
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  Speaker 1: Shortly after his surrender at Appomattox, he said that the
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  Speaker 1: best men of the South have been eager to do
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  Speaker 1: away with the abominable practice. In eighteen sixty six, he
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  Speaker 1: testified before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction that he had
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  Speaker 1: always been in favor of emancipation, gradual emancipation. However, he
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  Speaker 1: owned or managed slaves for over thirty years in eighteen
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  Speaker 1: sixty one, in April, he oversaw roughly two hundred individuals.
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  Speaker 3: Not to mention that there were reports. You know, maybe
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  Speaker 3: we haven't a hundred percent confirmation, but he wasn't a
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  Speaker 3: particularly kind slave owner, that he may have been much
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  Speaker 3: more on the cruel and brutal side.
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  Speaker 1: We give this just to lay out those facts. These
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  Speaker 1: are very very important things. However, his personal or non
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  Speaker 1: military life aside, he was known as one of the
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  Speaker 1: finest officers in the US Army. In eighteen fifty nine,
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  Speaker 1: he was called upon to suppress the raid at Harper's Ferry,
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  Speaker 1: led by the abolitionist John Brown, and was so successful
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  Speaker 1: that in eighteen sixty one, Abraham Lincoln offered him command
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  Speaker 1: of the full Federal forces. Not only did he decline,
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  Speaker 1: he resigned from the army when the state of Virginia
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  Speaker 1: seceded from the Union on April seventeenth of the same year,
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  Speaker 1: his reasoning being I cannot make war against my own people.
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  Speaker 1: And he didn't just resign, he didn't go, you know,
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  Speaker 1: hang out on a farm somewhere. Instead, he joined up
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  Speaker 1: with the newly formed Confederate Army as a general. So
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  Speaker 1: his first military engagement is at a place called Cheat Mountain, Virginia.
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  Speaker 1: Well now it's West Virginia, but back then it was
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  Speaker 1: just Cheap Mountain, Virginia on September eleventh, eighteen sixty one.
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  Speaker 1: It was a victory for the Union, but he still
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  Speaker 1: weathered the storm and was also a military advisor to
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  Speaker 1: President Jefferson Davis until eighteen sixty two. And there are
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  Speaker 1: so many fantastic stories, books, biographies, podcasts, research papers, and
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  Speaker 1: so on written about the Civil War that we would
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  Speaker 1: helpfully re for you to any one of those. Let's
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  Speaker 1: fast forward to the end of the Civil War, because
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  Speaker 1: this is when our story really begins to take shape.
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  Speaker 1: So we said that the Civil War ended in eighteen
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  Speaker 1: sixty five, right.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true because upon defeat, Robert E. Lee had
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  Speaker 3: to or didn't have to, but he seemed to acquiesce
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  Speaker 3: to swearing allegiance to the Union and to admitting defeat,
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  Speaker 3: and to not being particularly sore sport about the whole
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  Speaker 3: affair because he was, you know, in fact, a professional
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  Speaker 3: military man, and he understood the rules of engagement and
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  Speaker 3: he wasn't gonna pitch a fit about it, and he
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  Speaker 3: kind of went quietly.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: On April ninth, eighteen sixty five, Lee surrendered the Confederate
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  Speaker 1: Army to Ulysses S. Grant at the Appomattox Courthouse. This
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  Speaker 1: ended the Civil War, I mean effectively, he went home
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  Speaker 1: on parole, and his life when on for about five
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  Speaker 1: years after the Civil Wars end, and he eventually became
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  Speaker 1: president of Washington College right before his death on October twelfth,
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  Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy. There's an interesting timeline here, right, So
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  Speaker 1: he only lives about five years after the close of
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  Speaker 1: the Civil War. And similar to the way that myths
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  Speaker 1: sprang up about George Washington, you know, even while he
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  Speaker 1: was alive and certainly immediately after his death. We see
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  Speaker 1: the same thing in certain parts of American culture with
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  Speaker 1: Robert E.
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  Speaker 2: Lee.
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  Speaker 1: He was romanticized, he was memorialized. You could say people
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  Speaker 1: in the South wanted to build statues to him. They
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  Speaker 1: wanted to waive the stars and bars and talk about,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know, the South rising again, right, Yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: mean that's.
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  Speaker 2: What they said.
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  Speaker 3: It absolutely, but it ends up feeding into some pretty
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  Speaker 3: toxic romanticizations of these ideas.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's have no illusions about that.
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  Speaker 3: It's bad stuff. And we will get into how that
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  Speaker 3: plays into more contemporary history in just a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: In an article on PBS dot org by Lisa and
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to go ahead and really french this one
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  Speaker 3: up Lisa Desjardins, which I may be overpronouncing it, but
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  Speaker 3: I'd rather overpronounced than underpronounced. She mentions how Lee was
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  Speaker 3: pretty clear about the way he felt about that kind
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  Speaker 3: of romanticization well before his death, and that he stressed
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  Speaker 3: this idea that it was very important for a country
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  Speaker 3: that had been torn by war to move past it,
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  Speaker 3: and that includes not memorializing it with any kind of
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  Speaker 3: symbolism or militant monument remembrances things like that that would
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  Speaker 3: continue to cause to sort of sow the seeds of separatism.
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  Speaker 3: And there's a really great quote from him that you
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  Speaker 3: think you can kind of take as faith face value.
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  Speaker 3: Then we can kind of dissect it a little bit too, Ben,
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  Speaker 3: Do you want to read that one?
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  Speaker 2: Sure?
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  Speaker 1: This quote comes from a piece of correspondence about a
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  Speaker 1: proposed memorial at Gettysburg written in eighteen sixty nine. I
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  Speaker 1: think it was not to keep open the souls of war,
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  Speaker 1: but to follow the examples of those nations who were
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  Speaker 1: endabled to obliterate the marks of civil straff, to commit
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  Speaker 1: to oblivion little feelings in gender.
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  Speaker 2: Very well spoken, sir. That's not me, that's Robert E.
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  Speaker 3: Lee.
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  Speaker 2: I found don't know where we got the audio.
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  Speaker 3: I felt as though he floated right into the room. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's true. And that has led many to believe that
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  Speaker 3: what he meant was any of these Confederate monuments were
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  Speaker 3: counter to his idea of how it would be best
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  Speaker 3: to deal with the fallout from a war like that,
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  Speaker 3: that by having these romanticizations or any kind of these
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  Speaker 3: big reminders steering you in the face, whatever side you
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  Speaker 3: were on. It's not a good thing, and it would
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  Speaker 3: continue to sow those seeds of division and hostility between
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  Speaker 3: the winning and the losing sizes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great biography of Lee by a fellow
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  Speaker 1: named Jonathan Horne, The Man Who Would Not Be Washington
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  Speaker 1: fantastic title, and he points out that Lee himself, Roberty
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  Speaker 1: Lee himself after the Civil War, in those five years
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  Speaker 1: before his death, he opposed monuments, but specifically opposed Confederate
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  Speaker 1: War monuments, and in his correspondence we have multiple documented
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  Speaker 1: reasons for his opinion. So in one case he questions
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  Speaker 1: the cost of a monument to Stonewall Jackson, and he
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  Speaker 1: finds some other ways to approach this issue. But his
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  Speaker 1: underlying prime objection to this is that we empower a
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  Speaker 1: cause or an idea when we remember it. That's why
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  Speaker 1: so many civilizations work so ardently in the past and
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  Speaker 1: the modern day to erase things from your history books.
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  Speaker 1: In his mind, the war had ended, the nation was
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  Speaker 1: one again, and it needed to look forward to the
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  Speaker 1: future rather than celebrating this social upheaval and then potentially
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  Speaker 1: leading to further discord down the road.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he see.
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  Speaker 3: He puts it pretty eloquently in this discord that we
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  Speaker 3: also have tape up.
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  Speaker 1: As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated,
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  Speaker 1: my conviction is that, however grateful it would be to
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  Speaker 1: the feelings of the South, the attempt, in the present
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  Speaker 1: condition of the country, would have the effect of retarding
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  Speaker 1: instead of accelerating its accomplishment, of continuing, if not adding
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  Speaker 1: to the difficulties under which the Southern people label. We
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  Speaker 1: do want to point out there that he is using
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  Speaker 1: a word that could be seen as offensive. He's in
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  Speaker 1: the correct way, you know what I mean. He's meaning
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  Speaker 1: to sty me the progress of the country.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, indeed, And there's this actually was so divisive it
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  Speaker 3: made the news really recently because of the senseless and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: bizarre and unfortunate attack for lack of a better term,
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  Speaker 3: that happened in Charlottesville, Virginia in twenty seventeen, where in fact,
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  Speaker 3: an alt right or a white supremacist group descended on
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  Speaker 3: the small college town because of a proposal to pull
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  Speaker 3: down a statue of General Robert E.
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  Speaker 1: Lee.
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  Speaker 3: And there was violence. A young woman was hit and
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  Speaker 3: killed by a car, and it at the time it
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  Speaker 3: was just utter chaos. It became a very divisive political issue.
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  Speaker 3: Even before this event, it became a very divisive political issue,
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  Speaker 3: the idea of should we erase these marks of the
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  Speaker 3: past because of what they represent, which you know, you
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  Speaker 3: could argue is racism, is division, is pro slavery attitudes.
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  Speaker 3: Some Southerners, old school Southerners, say it's their heritage or represents,
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  Speaker 3: you know, just the history of the South, and that
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  Speaker 3: taking it down is disrespectful to them. So say what
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  Speaker 3: you will. Our president had this to say about it,
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  Speaker 3: sad to see the history and culture of our great
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  Speaker 3: country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful
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  Speaker 3: statues and monuments.
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  Speaker 1: You know, no, I noticed you didn't do a Trump
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: voice for that, And I think that's I think that's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a good call, because I gotta tell you, I've been
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: looking around and I just cannot, for the life of me,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: find a good impression of that guy, you know what
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like Alec Baldwin in one is not that great.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Well, that's sort of what makes his funny, right, is
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: that it's like it's, yeah, it's so out of left
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: field that it just kind of is like cartoonish, as
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: you would say, right.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even Stephen Colbert Love the guys just I don't know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: maybe it's a tough voice. They're the pros. Let know,
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  Speaker 1: if you've seen a decent impression. And I'm not saying
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  Speaker 1: anything further than that, it's just usually when someone's president,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: there's like one person, often from Saturday Night Live, who
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: does the best impression of that president. And it looks
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: like we're still looking for one. No offense to any
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin fans in the house, but your point, your
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: point stands, Nolan. It goes back to what I was
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: saying at the top. We see these ramifications carry on
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to the modern day. Faulkner was right when he said
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the past is not over. It's not even passed. And
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing there, but this is an important point I
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: believe now. Currently, as it stands, there's somewhere around seven
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty monuments all told, across the US that
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: are their memorials for the Civil War, and that's according
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: to the Southern Poverty Law Center. People who want the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: removed say that the continued presence of the monuments confers
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  Speaker 1: undue dignity on a faction that fought to preserve slavery
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: and white supremacy, So they agree with Roberty Lee, but
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: perhaps for different reasons.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and not to mention that. In August of twenty seventeen,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: PBS News Hour and NPR an Emerist poll found that
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: sixty two percent of people responding to the pole thought
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: that monuments such as this should stay in place as
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  Speaker 3: historical symbols.
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  Speaker 2: So it is a.
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  Speaker 3: Tricky argument because on the one hand, it's a form
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  Speaker 3: of revisionist history. On the other hand, you know, real
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  Speaker 3: estate is scarce, maybe we should devote it to more
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  Speaker 3: positive things, you know what I mean, like as opposed
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  Speaker 3: to something that represents things that are painful to others
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  Speaker 3: who have family members that possibly even lived through it
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: or were connected to it more directly.
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  Speaker 1: And one thing that a lot of people miss when
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: they hear the headline Roberty Lee opposed Confederate memorials is
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that he also opposed Civil War memorials in general. He
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: turned down the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association back in eighteen
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  Speaker 1: sixty nine. He really wanted the battlefields to be erased,
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  Speaker 1: to turn into farms, to turn into towns and other
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: peaceful areas of the nation, rather than memorializing them. He
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: saw it as a way to speed reconciliation. So it's
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  Speaker 1: not as if he was wholly repentant, you know what
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  Speaker 1: I mean, Nor was he penitent. He said all of
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  Speaker 1: the memorials would be better if they were left unbuilt.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, yep, for sure. And this is one of
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  Speaker 3: those quotes, the original one that we said about, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the sores of division or whatever, that you can very
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: easily take out of context and use to support arguments
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: on either side.
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  Speaker 1: Right, And this is where our hal draws to a close.
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  Speaker 1: But we didn't want to end on too somber a
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  Speaker 1: note because there is a very specific type of unorthodox
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Confederate memorial that will never be removed from the US
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't exist in the US. We were talking
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: about the Confederados, the ten thousand to twenty thousand Confederate
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: American refugees who fled to Brazil, mainly in South Paulo,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and then lived reproduced, had descendants. They founded the City
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Americana Brazil. We did this on previous episodes, totally.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was that obsession with the Confederate South in
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: the very same way that they romanticize it in an
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: almost weird kind of like alternate reality. Man in the
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: High Castle, fictionalized kind of way, as though if they
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: had won the war, what it would be like. That's
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: a weird one.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: And you can see the residents of Americana Sal Paulo
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: talking about how they how much they enjoy the festival
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: they hold every year, and how it's for them not
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: about commemorating a regime, right, it's not about commemorating racism
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: or slavery year, all the things tied to the Civil War.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It's just for them part of their culture. Very interesting town.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: So if you've ever been there, check it out and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: let us know what you find.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: And you know in fact, snopes dot com, the famous
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: fact checking site, decided to weigh in on this as well,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: with the question was Robert E. Lee opposed to Confederate monuments?
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And they classify it as a mixture of true and false,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: with the truth being supporting the validity of those quotes
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: that he expressed opposition to Civil War monuments memorials, including
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: the Stonewall Jackson one specifically. But what isn't clear is
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: the breadth of this position. His opposition to Confederate monuments
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: was probably more pronounced than his opposition towards Civil War
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: monuments in general.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: But it was still against against them overall.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, but it is one of those
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: mixed mixed snoops responses. And then the continuation of the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: President Trump's quote from earlier. The tweet was this, he says,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: you can't change history, but you can learn from it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Robert E. Lee Sonwell Jackson, who's next? Washington? Jefferson? So foolish. Also,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: the beauty that is being taken out of our cities,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: to be completely replaced. So we can see where where
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: our boy Donnie Trump falls in that debate.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I'd also like to hear from you, fellow ridiculous historians.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Where where do you fall in this debate? And speak
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of hearing from you, what do you guys say we
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: do a little listener mail.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I think that's a smashing idea.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Did you see that?
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: One listener wrote in and said that the listener mail
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: sound effect fills them with abject terror?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I saw that?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, interesting?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Was that on Facebook?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: It was on Facebook?
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I think you can you can see what we're talking
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: about if you're joined forces with us on Facebook at
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. Just getting that plug out of the way
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So what do we got? You got you got any
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: hot takes?
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: No?
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I got one from Hannah says Hello. I was recently
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: listening to you or when West Virginia begged for foreign
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: aid from the USSR, and I was inspired to inquire
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: about a podcast on for Gotonia. For Gotonia is a
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: west central section of Illinois that was forgotten when highways
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: were expanded west and there was an attempt to secede
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: from the United States. This section of Illinois felt cut
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: off and decided to bring attention to it with this
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: major move. I have lived in this area my whole life, huh,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: and it amazes me how few people know of it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Please consider it for a future podcast. Thanks Hannah. Consider
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: it considered, Hannah, Yes, consider it considered. I had not
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: heard of Forgottonia before receiving your letter, Hannah, and I
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: think it's fascinating. I I actually I've been reading a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: lot about it off air, and I hope that there
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: are license plates.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I hope that there are stickers. I hope that you can,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: you know, send mail with Forgotonia stamps.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: But I look forward to learning.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: More and before we uh forget Tonia this segment, let's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: have Let's have one more listener mail.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Rebecca C.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Writes to us with an email entitled Ordeal by Cake. Hello,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: says Rebecca. I have been listening to this podcast since
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it started and it has become one of my favorites.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Ah. Thanks.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: In parentheses, she says, I love the quizter. We have
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: complicated feelings there. The war began by the dog was timely,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: as it came up in trivia last night. Or the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: guy who sets the questions also listened to the show.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: When you discussed undergoing trials, I was reminded of Ordeal
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: by Cake, where the person would have to eat a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: dry cake without choking after swearing to something, the idea
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: being that if you were lying, guilt would stick in
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: your throat. Just a thought it might leave less scars
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: than other ordeals. Rebecca, thanks for writing. I had never
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: heard of the Trial by Cake. The closest I remember
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: hearing is that old stand up bit about cake or
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: death right and Eddie Izzard bit. I just got confirmed
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: off air by Casey, but I don't know. I would
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: give it a try. It sounds kind of like an
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: old school version of the saltine Challenge.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Have you heard of that?
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Is that where you eat a bunch of saltines? Is
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: it like the cinnamon Challenge?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty much so.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a way to set legal precedent,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: but I'd be interested in trying it. I wonder if
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: we could institute. Do you think HR would let us
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: get away with that?
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I say we What is it better to
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: ask for forgiveness than permission?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Especially when Cake is involved?
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Oh man, sign me up. I'll try anything once, especially
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: if Cake is involved.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Anna, thank you, Rebecca, and
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This concludes listener mail, but not
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: our show. Tune in because we have more ridiculous stuff
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: on the way as always in the meantime. You can
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: learn more about ridiculous, bizarre, strange exploits throughout the story
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: of human civilization on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, our Instagram,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: or our Twitter. You can also follow our own personal
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: adventures on Instagram where I am at Ben Bowling.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I am at Embryonic Insider. Big Thanks to super producer
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme research associate
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Gabe Lozier, and of course I think we're due for
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: a Christopher Hasiotis appearance and possibly a creepy drop in
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: from our arch nemesis, the Quist Jonathan Strickland.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I have PTSD my friend podcast Drama Traumatic Stress Disorder,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: because this is gonna sound weird, But there are I
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: know that it sounds like a bit sometimes, but there
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: are genuinely times when we don't know that he's coming.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: It's it's strange. It's it's a bizarre situation and we've
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: just been rolling with it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: It's also weird when he just kind of drops down
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: from the ceiling and then his head turns around three
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty degrees and he kind of makes a
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: weird cackling sound. This is a very guttural, like from
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: the throat kind of situation.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not a bit. Sometimes he doesn't even
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: make it to the mic. He just drops in exorss
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: style and then like skitters back up into the ceiling.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: It is quite traumatic for all concerned. But at the
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: same time, I missed the little guy.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I'd like a statue. I gotta tell you,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I was conflicted with this because I see Robert E.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Lee's point about not wanting to memorialize this, this intense,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: divisive period in time, But also, wouldn't it be kind
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: of cool to have a statue of your of yourself?
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, so it's such a Kanye West move, you know, Casey, would.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: You get a statue of yourself?
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Probably not, someone else would have to build it right
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: at the very least.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what you will get.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe not a statue, but some kind of apparel
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I think may be forthcoming.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Oh oh oh.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.