Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / BONUS Episode 26: Karmelo Anthony & Austin Metcalf

Transcript

BONUS Episode 26: Karmelo Anthony & Austin Metcalf · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, all you true crime divas and dudes.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Tina, and thank you for joining us for this bonus episode of your favorite True Crime podcast, Deadly Divas.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Sarah, and if you're new here, welcome.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a returning listener, we're so glad you're back.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're covering a case that has currently gone viral and divided the internet.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this case is by far one of the most senseless tragedies in recent history.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what makes it worse is that not only were there two families and a community shattered, it also caused nationwide division.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are discussing the tragic murder of Anthony Metcalfe by fellow high school student Carmelo Anthony.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there are, of course, two sides to every story, but this one has turned into completely polarizing opposition.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: By the time most people hear about it, they're only getting one side, which may or may not really represent concrete facts and evidence.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean everybody has their own opinion, because obviously, but you can watch the same 10-second description of this case somewhere like TikTok and come away thinking either A, this was clear-cut self-defense, or B, this was a clear-cut murder case.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And both groups will swear they're looking at the same facts, which is kind of the problem, because this is still an active legal case.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: There are confirmed facts, there are disputed details, and then there is an entirely separate internet version of events that has been built on top of both.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, I want to start with a brief synopsis of what happened in the fallout, and then later on, I want to get into the nitty-gritty of it all.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to go through what actually happened, who said what in court, what witnesses described, what the legal arguments actually are, and why this case exploded into something way bigger than a courtroom.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be clear from the start, this isn't just a story about a fight at a track meet.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a story about how fast modern true crime becomes a public identity war.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this takes place in Frisco, Texas, at a high school track meet in April 2025.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds like a background detail, but it matters a lot in this case because track meets are one of those environments that are structured but kind of chaotic at the same time.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got multiple schools, hundreds of students, coaches moving between events, parents and spectators, athletes constantly rotating in and out of events, and it's organized, but it's not controlled in a tight way.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then weather hits.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Rain delays are reported, and like most outdoor school events, everything shifts into waited out wherever you can mode.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: People cluster under tents, students mix between teams, staff try to keep things moving, and that's the environment where this incident takes place.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Two students end up in the same tent area associated with Memorial High School.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Austin Metcalfe and Carmelo Anthony.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where everything changes.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So before anything else happens, I want to slow this down because cases like this tend to erase the people involved.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Austin Metcalfe was a teenager, a student athlete involved in track, described in reporting as someone active in school sports and part of that structured athletic environment.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Carmelo Anthony was also a teenager, also a student athlete, also at the same type of school event.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that because this matters for understanding escalation.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is not adults, this is not a criminal meeting, this is a school environment where identity, territory, emotion, and peer dynamics are already amplified.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't excuse anything, but it does explain how quickly things can spiral in under one minute.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the clearest timeline that emerges from trial reporting and witness summaries.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Rain delay begins, students move under tents for shelter.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anthony ends up in the memorial high school tent area.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: A verbal confrontation begins.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Other students tell him he should leave.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: The argument escalates, physical contact occurs, and within seconds, Anthony produces a knife.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Austin Metcalf is stabbed in the chest.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Emergency response is called.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And tragically, Metcalf later dies from his injury.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's the sequence both sides largely agree on at a high level.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where they completely diverge is interpretation.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is where things get really important because witness testimony is where the entire case structure is built.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Across student witnesses, a few consistent themes show up.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, the confrontation started verbally.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody describes this as a silent or sudden attack.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It begins with words.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, there was a dispute over being in the tent.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Several witnesses described Anthony being told he needed to leave.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Number three, the escalation was fast.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even prosecution witnesses generally describe this as happening quickly once it escalated physically.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Number four, physical contact happened briefly.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Most descriptions point to a shove or push, not a prolonged fight.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this matters a lot later when you get to self-defense law, because self-defense cases usually hinge on was there enough threat to justify deadly force?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that becomes harder when the physical interaction is brief rather than prolonged.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the prosecution's theory is very direct.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: They argue that this was not self-defense.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And their core argument is that the situation was a verbal dispute, it escalated to a shove, but that still does not justify deadly force.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they hammer one point repeatedly.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: A shove is not justification for a stabbing.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: They also argue that Anthony had a knife prior to the escalation, which is critical because it reframes the entire moment.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: If the weapon was already present, then the question becomes whether this was truly a spontaneous reaction or whether escalation was always one step away.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: From their perspective, this was an avoidable escalation that crossed a legal line into murder.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the defense does not dispute that Anthony stabbed Metcalfe.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, they focus on why he did it in that moment.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Their argument is built on perception.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: They say the situation was chaotic, it escalated rapidly, physical contact happened, and Anthony perceived a threat in real time.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And legally, that distinction does matter because self-defense law is not, was there actually danger?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is, did the person reasonably believe there was danger at the time?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the defense is asking the jury to step into that moment and evaluate it without hindsight, which is incredibly difficult in any case like this.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where a lot of people outside the courtroom misunderstand these cases because jurors are not asked, do you like what happened?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: They are asked, was this legally justified under the law?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that breaks down into how immediate was the threat, how severe was it perceived to be, and was the response proportional?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the jury is basically reconstructing seconds of human behavior under stress.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the uncomfortable truth is there is no perfect reconstruction of that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the jury ultimately found Carmelo Anthony guilty of murder, which means they accepted the prosecution's interpretation that the use of deadly force was not legally justified in that moment.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And once that happens, the legal system moves forward into sentencing and appeals.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: But culturally, that's where the story actually expands.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And here is where this case becomes something much bigger than the courtroom, because online, it did not stay a legal discussion.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It became a narrative war.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Very quickly, you saw self-defense framing, murder framing, racial interpretation debates, school safety discussions, arguments about justice system bias, and breakdown videos using partial testimony as full truth.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is the key problem.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are not reacting to the full case.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: They are reacting to fragments of it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And fragments are easy to turn into certainty.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: This case divides people because it hits multiple sensitive pressure points at once.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Teenagers involved in violence, self-defense law ambiguity, school environment expectations, racial and social interpretation layers, and instant online commentary culture.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on where someone starts emotionally, the entire case looks different, which is why people can watch the same facts and come to completely opposite conclusions.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not because the facts change, because interpretation changes.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then you add fundraising into this mix.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this always changes how cases feel online.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because now people are not just discussing guilt or innocence, they are reacting to financial support campaigns, perceived sides taking shape, early public alignment before sentencing.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that creates another layer of controversy.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Does public fundraising influence perception of a case?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it doesn't legally matter socially, it absolutely does matter because it changes how people feel about what they are watching.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to break this down for a second because at the center of all of this is still a very simple reality.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Two teenagers were involved in an altercation.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: One of them did not survive.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: The other is now convicted of murder.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And everything else, legal arguments, internet debates, commentary wars, sits on top of that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the bottom line is that two families lost a son in two very different ways.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this was so very preventable.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: On June 9th, 2026, after just three hours of deliberation, a Collin County jury found Carmelo Anthony guilty of murder in the fatal stabbing of Austin Metcalfe at the Frisco High School track meet.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: The next day, June 10th, 2026, he was sentenced to 35 years in prison with the jury rejecting his claim that the stabbing was justified as self-defense.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's our breakdown of everything so far.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now I want to discuss some of the finer details, some of the things that are being really hotly debated and that give really important context.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to shed some light on the emotional devastation as well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got two families here of teenage boys.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Austin, the victim, actually had a twin brother named Hunter.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he witnessed this stabbing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Austin ultimately died in his twin brother's arms.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's horrible.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So his brother described to the dad that he was actually holding Austin and he had his hand over the wound and was he was trying to stop the bleeding, but he eventually did die in his arms.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just cannot imagine.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he's obviously traumatized for life, not just from losing his twin brother.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't have a twin, but you always hear that twin bond.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're traumatized anyway if you lose a a sibling, but then especially a twin.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: But then to have them die in your arms so suddenly from this completely unexpected.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he witnessed he witnessed the whole thing and it all happened in a matter of seconds.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it must just be hard to even comprehend what you just saw.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I can only imagine the how the brother is feeling.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then the father, who has been really outspoken, his name is Jeff Metcalfe.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: He obviously is also extremely devastated.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was researching this, I found that he had previously battled cancer some years ago.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually did not expect him to survive it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: But miraculously, he beat the odds and fully recovered.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in an interview that he gave, he actually said, I truly believe that the reason I survived was so that I could take care of my boys.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so for him to then have to bury one of his twins from a murder at 17 years old.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Had a track meet at a high school.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just the last thing you'd expect.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you send your kids to school and you think that they are safe.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's horrifying.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's lots of places you tell them not to go because it's not safe, but school is not one of those places that you expect.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: You never imagine anything like this would happen.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the dad actually gave an interview the day of the murder, the day of, and I don't know if you saw this, but if you guys have not seen this interview that Jeff Metcalfe gave the day of his son's murder, you need to watch it because he somehow managed to keep it together and give a really civil and heartwarming statement.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he actually described that the previous weekend he and Hunter and Austin went on a hunting trip because that was something that they did together frequently.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently Austin had never gotten to shoot a pig, and that was like what he wanted to do.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I really want to get a pig today, dad.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Oh, it took him hours, you know, on the hunt for this pig.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he did eventually get a pig that day.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he describes that, like, oh, it was a moment that they all cherished and a memory that they'll have forever now.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, looking back, he's glad that that's their last great memory together because it was such a good one.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was glad that they at least had that nice memory.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, there's another family here, and that is Carmelo Anthony's family.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they lost a son too.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just in a different way.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: We don't justify his murder, like whatsoever, but his mom is obviously absolutely devastated.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what the household was like.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: We have no idea.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But no mother ever wants their son to commit murder.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she actually made a really emotional plea after the trial, right before sentencing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: She went up on the stand and I mean, she was sobbing.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see any of that?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did not.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: She was crying, she was sobbing.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: She was literally begging the jury, please show him mercy.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: He feels incredibly bad for what he did.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: He feels so bad for what he did.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Please show him mercy.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can just tell this is a completely destroyed mother.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I do feel for her.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, regardless of where you fall on the verdict, it was another reminder that this tragedy did destroy more than one family.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, the Anthony family, Carmelo has siblings, I think either two or three younger siblings.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And his mom has said that, like, hey, we are literally getting death threats.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: My young children are getting death threats.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I am getting death threats.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: My husband is getting death threats.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they ended up having to hire security.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: They went from overnight just being a normal family to now basically the nation knows all of their faces.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems like a lot of people hold them accountable for the son's actions.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't agree with that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what the household was like.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have no idea.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know the household dynamic, but it's not like they were doing what um Brian Laundrie's family was doing, where they were trying to like cover it up and hide somebody.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So just two families completely ripped apart.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's just, it's horrible.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got all this misinformation online that is not helping.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something else that I want to talk about.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So Carmelo's family had a GoFundMe that raised about it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't called GoFundMe, was it?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was called Give Me.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was something.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Give me fund or something, some rip-off of it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some dollar general great value ripoff.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it raised like what,$642,000 or so.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: There was a rumor that even though they had raised all of this money that was supposedly to go towards his defense, that he still got a public defender, which would mean that none of that money went towards paying for a lawyer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: That rumor is absolutely not true, but I have seen it repeated in my research over and over and over everywhere.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: People are repeating it as if it is fact.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is not a fact.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: They did indeed hire a personal attorney with those funds.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was not a public defender.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely wanted to clear the air on that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: But while we're talking about the great value GoFundMe, whatever the hell it is, what do we think about giving$600,000 to someone that we know is a murderer?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not in dispute that he stabbed this boy.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: He did it.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But as we just mentioned, the rest of the family are not to blame for his actions necessarily.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the rest of his family are suffering.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: They need to hire security because of the public outrage against them.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: No one person suddenly gave them$642,000.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: This could have been, you know,$10 a pop, and people felt for his family, knowing that he was just a teenager in high school, and yes, he's there's consequences for his actions.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the the rest of the family needing security and everything else is probably something they couldn't afford to pay for.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's valid.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I see both sides of this argument.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, people donate to much less disturbing things.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I see both sides of the argument.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that it is a concerning trend that we are giving all of this money to all of these perpetrators.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps not necessarily in this case, but there's been a lot of other cases that criminals have started GoFundMe's and raised all of this money.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you guys, there are so many more worthy things that you could be giving money to.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like go to your local food bank and donate this money.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: If it was my family member or a close friend and their child had murdered someone and they were getting death threats, would I help?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course, absolutely.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, I think thousands of people have donated to this.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like people that don't even know them, strangers.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wonder But you also touched upon though, there's been so many different angles of this.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And people will b either believe the first angle they see or the angle they want to believe.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so therefore they may feel compelled to donate money because they feel it wasn't an intentional murder, it was just something that blew out of control.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or kind of understand how other mothers of teenagers that have maybe got into fights and it's not ended up quite like this have sympathy for the family.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I get that, but then and I do, I 100% get that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then I think, what about the family that their son was murdered?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth to contribute to the murderer, essentially.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I get what you're saying.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's absolutely valid as well.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's very 50-50.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand why people are so divided.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: But speaking of his defense, like since we're talking about it, and and supposedly they did spend these funds.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna put this out here.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Supposedly they did spend the funds on a lawyer for him and on security because they were getting the death threats and you know living expenses.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think they actually had to move because people were, you know, coming to their home.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have young children, especially like but I think legally, on something like a GoFundMe, unless you're specifically stating we are going to use the money for A, B, and C, you can potentially use it on anything under one umbrella of we are raising funds to help the family through this court case or through this situation, they could literally use it for anything because it's not specified.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: They could say, Well, I paid to have my house cleaned every week because I didn't have time to think about it because I was you know what I mean?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's so many things that you could use it for and it come under that umbrella that unless your GoFundMe specifically says this will just be used for funeral or this will just be used for legal funds.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that they can use it for whatever they want.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: They yeah, they can, and that's the thing.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm donating, let's say, a hundred bucks to something like this, my hundred bucks is not going to the family of the murderer.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to the family that is burying their son.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and that's just how I feel about it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that like their pain is not real and valid.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can only imagine what they're going through, but that's just my side of that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so his defense.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I did not understand why his defense team decided to say that this was self-defense, because they did not have a leg to stand on for self-defense, in my opinion.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you've got to put a defense up there, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: He has the right to defense.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at all of the reasons they could possibly give, I mean, what else to fly?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would have done temporary insanity, especially since he's a juvenile.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely would have done temporary insanity.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why he lost the case.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why it only took the jury three hours to deliberate, is because this was so clearly not self-defense.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so to get into a bit more of the specifics, because I haven't already, they were at this track meet, all these different schools were there.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow, we don't exactly know why, but somehow Carmelo Anthony ended up at the tent of Memorial High School, which was not his school.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, we don't know why exactly, he was asked to leave.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: He was asked to leave in a civil way at first, and he became aggressive and started saying, like, make me, make me, like, what are you gonna do?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Touch me and see what happens.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Move me.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then they said, and all the witnesses pretty much agree on this, that Carmelo was asked about 10 to 15 times to leave before anything physical occurred.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, eventually, Austin did they describe it as like a sh a push or a shove to like physically move him.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: They say that it wasn't necessarily a hard shove, but it wasn't like a soft shove either.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a you need to move, and I mean business type shove.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that he was right to put his hands on Carmelo.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You should never, ever, ever put your hands on anybody.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that what he should have done was possibly go get the coach or or a teacher or something.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: But, and this is another point that I want to bring up.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of Austin's coaches testified at the trial and said that Austin was kind of like a team captain and he would be left in charge sometimes when the coach had to step away.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that Austin really felt like he had a sense of responsibility at this point because there was no like coach adult around at this moment to say, hey, you need to leave, you need to get out of here, we're doing whatever, you know, we're trying to get ready for the meet, you know, whatever, whatever the reason.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like they wanted him uh out and away.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't his area, and he wouldn't go and he became aggressive.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like all the witnesses agree on that, that he became aggressive.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then the shove finally happens because he won't move.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the him being shoved was the first actual physical correct, but he was being aggressive verbally or something.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was taunting, he was saying, make me, touch me and see what happens, you know, stuff.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So so he escalated the aggression, but he did not start the physical now within seconds, I mean seconds of him being pushed or shoved, he had the knife out and plunged it into Austin's So there was no look, I've got a knife, I'm threatening you with a knife.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was straight out and in.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Straight out and in his chest, yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what is he doing with a knife at school anymore?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is the question that everybody wants an answer to.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought we were gonna get it at trial.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't, it wasn't even asked.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even brought up.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something else that I want to get into while we're talking about the defense, but um you cannot argue self-defense if you are standing here and you are taunting a person.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, also, doesn't self-defense mean that you felt threatened?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if the other person has no weapons, that's another thing, is that Austin was completely unarmed.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: He did not have any weapons on him.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Carmelo brought a knife to that track meet.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want my opinion, and this is just my opinion, he was looking for trouble that day.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Austin was just the unlucky one that had a confrontation with him.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: There is no other reason to bring a knife to a school track meet.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, back to my back to my point.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot say that this is self-defense.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you have ever been in a situation where you legitimately feel for your safety, and I have, you do not engage further.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: You do not taunt, you go away, you try to de-escalate, you don't say, make me, make me, touch me, and see what happens.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a person who's afraid.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is a person who wants to instigate something.
• 29:53
  unknown: Right.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he clearly did.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Make me see what happens.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: He brought a knife.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is not self-defense, period.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't understand why his defense team used self-defense because it clearly was not.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you have 12 witnesses who said that it wasn't.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he didn't have any of his friends with him.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: He was Right.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: He was kind of alone over there.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he's in the tent due to rain?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh probably it was because of the rain, but we don't feel like I feel like if it was due to rain, if it was due to weather and everybody's crowding under tents, had they gone and got the coach or a teacher or some authority figure at the school, that that person would be highly likely to say, be a good sportsman.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let him stand out of the rain for a minute.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not hurting anything.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like they would have evicted him from the tent.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that it was a nice, pleasant interaction up to that point.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: There was some reason that they did not want Carmelo there.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that they apparently didn't know each other before, but I feel like there has to be some kind of school rivalry where you're from school A, so you can't come under our tent because this is the tent for school B.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of wonder, and this is pure speculation, I wasn't there, no witness said this, but I just really wonder if he was just looking for something and he just had a demeanor, like an aggressive demeanor.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And here's something else.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear that Carmelo was actually suspended from school during the time that he committed this murder?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear that?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't no.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't supposed to come in check meet at all.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be very clear.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: A local CBS station to Frisco, Texas, or the area in Texas where this happened initially reported that he was suspended from school during this time due to a previous situation where he brought a knife to school.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: They reported this.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: They then retracted this.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: When they retracted it, of course, they were asked, why have you retracted this?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Oh, because the principal, the school said that because he's a minor, we can't report on it.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you look online now and it's been kind of scrubbed, but you can still find traces of it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not retracting it because it's not true, they're retracting it because they shouldn't have said something.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he didn't attend the school that the track meet was at the end.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: He attended the track meet at Austin School or at Carmelo School or at a I don't remember which school it was, but both of the high schools were there at the meet.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this is kind of They went to different high schools.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: They went to different high schools.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is where it's kind of blurry because it's like, A, if he was suspended, why was he at this track meet?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was this an error on the school's part?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did he sneak in?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Did the school let him in?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I began thinking like a lot of the schools have metal detectors and everything now.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: How did he get this knife in?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's a track meet, sometimes you don't even have to go through the school building and the metal detectors to get to the sporting fields, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if he was suspended or obviously had a knife on him, he may have got back there without anybody even knowing that he was there or not supposed to be there or had a knife on him or whatever.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can just wander into a lot of those sporting fields without ever going into the school.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is another hole in that self-defense defense.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're not even supposed to be here and you sneak in, you're suspended for having a knife, and you sneak into a school life with a knife, and you end up killing somebody who was unarmed, like this paints a very vivid picture, in my opinion.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, part of his defense was he said that he was being ganged up on by all the people in the tent.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But the witness testimony does not support that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like 12 different witnesses said that that is not what happened.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: There was some video evidence, and it's from far away, so you can't really see specifics, but what they could see in the video did not support that he was being ganged up on.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the evidence that was presented at the trial did show a verbal confrontation and then just a very, very brief physical altercation and then the stabbing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess if he's the only person under the 10 from his school, and there's 12 of them from that school, and they're all telling him to leave, it might not be what you and I feel like ganged up upon would be if somebody was ganging up on us.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I can see where the defense might turn that into where there was it was 12 on one and they were all asking him to leave, and they can turn that into he was being ganged up on.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I get how you can make it look that way when he's a singular person and there's multiple people all telling him to leave.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he's not leaving.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's not leaving.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: These are questions that would have been great to ask Carmelo himself on the stand.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when you have a case that you're arguing self-defense about, it's absolutely critical to get the suspect on the stand and get their take on it so that they can say, Yes, I felt threatened.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is why.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I brought this knife to school.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is what happened.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I felt.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: He did not get on the stand and testify and give us his side of the story.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: But very often, lawyers do not let a accused murderer on the stand.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's a very common thing, is that they don't think it's gonna help.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: But for self-defense, it is critical.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna use self-defense, then it's actually rare that if you're arguing self-defense, that you don't get on the stand.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know this.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously researched all this for this case.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the professionals say that really the only reason that you wouldn't go on the stand is if your lawyers think that um you're gonna pretty much out yourself and answer the questions and incriminate yourself.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Which is why most defense lawyers don't let murder suspects on the stand.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Was it maybe also due to his age?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't read that, but it's it's possible.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that if it truly was self-defense, I truly think that that would have helped if he had gotten a chance to tell his side of the story.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you bring this knife?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: What made you feel so threatened that you needed to use deadly force?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So after he was arrested, the police were kind of communicating with each other.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the cops is like, Yeah, I have the alleged suspect in custody.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Carmelo literally says, like on body cam, I'm not alleged.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I did it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: So he admits right there that he did it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there was any denying it in front of all those people, then.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, and but for him to just be so blatant blatant and almost proud of it, that's also another nail in his coffin from my point of view.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I do understand why a lot of people feel the way that they feel, feel that he wasn't gonna get a fair trial because he is a young black man, and obviously black people face injustices every single day.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will not argue with that, and I don't think you will either.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, these are just facts.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: But number one, two wrongs do not make a right.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is it fair?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it awful?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Does it hurt?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, it's horrible.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: But two wrongs do not make a right, especially where our children are concerned, and especially where murder is concerned.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: I looked at this case like for the last 48 hours, I've done pretty much nothing but research this case.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that the jury made the right decision.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad I said that because that reminds me: here's another rumor that I want to dispel.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was not an all-white jury that convicted Carmelo.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: There were also people of Asian and Indian descent on this jury.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently they did interview some black jurors, but for whatever reason, they were dispelled.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, both the prosecution and the defense agreed on these 12 jurors.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there are facts and there are untruths, and there it goes both ways here.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: We need to look at facts.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's made this such a heated debate, anyway.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that it is a black boy and a white boy is the jury thing would never have even come up as a issue.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand why it was.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, black people face injustices every single day, and I hate that, and I do what I can.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just one person.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: But if you take away your biases, which I know easier said than done, like you will see that they made the right decision.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: He murdered that boy.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and in my opinion, in my opinion, from everything that I've seen, he was looking for trouble that day.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if he was maybe having some kind of a mental break.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that he didn't really realize the seriousness of what he was doing.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't intend to actually end the boy's life.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just intended to cause some serious damage.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I don't think that he aimed for the heart and knew that he would be dead within minutes.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if he did, that that's crazy.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know what his deal was if he was, you know, having some troubles as teenagers so often do, and you know, he was not getting the help that he needed.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if that suspension thing is true and the bringing a knife to school prior thing is true, I mean, this is something that had been coming.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then multiple people failed Austin.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple people did fail him and they didn't discuss it.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't know if the parents got him in therapy.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what the school was doing.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't know because they did not discuss it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to say one way or the other.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Got it, yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it was clear that there was a problem if you're taking a knife to school.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, I mean, now two families are destroyed and it's not about the races of either of these families.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously the two families were destroyed, but also there were what 12 other kids under that tent that witnessed all of this.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're never gonna forget that.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're never gonna be the same again.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's just horrific.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, and speaking of tent, so tent culture is something that they were talking about.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the tent culture, they say, is apparently like at these events, like you stay to your own tent and you don't go to other tents, and that's just the culture, like it's really rigid.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then you had other people who said, Oh no, it was totally normal for us to kind of visit other sports tents.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I talked to my niece about this who used to run cross-country, and so she would go to events like this all the time, and I asked her take on it, and she said that like it would it would vary between schools, obviously.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she went to a school where there's one high school in the whole town.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: This was obviously a more suburban type area where there were multiple schools, and she brought up a good point, which is when you have multiple schools in the same city, there might be more competition and a bit more of a rivalry.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: But she kind of agreed with me that it probably lies somewhere in the middle.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not this rigid tan culture, but it's also you're not freely just all around and talking to everybody wherever.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always got the impression, like when this first stall came about, that there was some kind of school rivalry between the two schools that they were from, and that that's why he was so unwelcome under their ten because of the school that he went to.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know how true that is.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the the feeling that I got.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know, and that's the thing, like they they never discussed it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't testify.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: We we don't know.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: But when I saw all the division online over race before I knew all the specifics, I was like, maybe the tent he went to was all white people and they were like racist and they were like, we don't want you here because you're black.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, maybe that's why everybody's up in arms.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there were black people in in the tent with it was white, black, Hispanic.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: There was like a mix of people.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously that wasn't it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think it was like a school thing.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you're at a track meet, they're probably either in a kit that represents their school, or if they're not competing, maybe t-shirts or whatever that support the school, or they just knew people from other schools, but they didn't know each other, right?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: They just but they're probably aware of the fact that they were from opposing schools.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, supposedly they had known.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ever met before ever.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like I said, it's an absolutely senseless tragedy.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they had no prior beef, they didn't even know each other.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was just Carmelo Anthony found his way under this tent.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously he wanted to be there.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And decided to stand his ground no matter what.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I do think, and again, this is my opinion.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that he went to this track meet wanting to inflict harm onto somebody.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think any kid that has taken a knife to school in the past and has taken a knife now to a track meet, even if he's not looking for trouble, is ready for trouble.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: And not sound of mind, obviously.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because like if you're sound of mind, you don't go and instigate, especially at a school event, someone you don't even know.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just would really like to think that if my kids who have graduated school now, but if they were at something like this and somebody sought shelter from weather under their tent that they would be welcoming.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, obviously it's that's what we hope in a in a perfect world, but I really don't think that this other, and this is my speculation, I don't think that that team would have asked him to leave 10 to 15 times if there wasn't some kind of bad vibe or some something there.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: There has to have been something else.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just all gang up on one person verbally, if they were ganging up to ask them to leave a tent when they may just be seeking shelter for five minutes.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: But oh, maybe he wasn't giving that vibe, like you said.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he was giving a fuck you, I'm coming into your tent with you like it on a few.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I mean, uh that we can safely assume that that was his vibe based on everything that we know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: That is not an unreasonable assumption, in my opinion.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: You don't go in calm, cool, and collected.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, you mind if I sit with you and get out of this rain to five minutes later plunging a knife into somebody's heart.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: The whole thing still blows my mind, just everything about it.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get the tent culture, but it's been a long time since I went to high school.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I'm not in high school anymore.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: But my kids, especially my youngest, has only recently graduated high school.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember seeing anything like that.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a Texas thing.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: They do it pretty much with a lot of sporting events.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like when my niece ran cross country, there was multiple different schools and they all had their own area.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: But we live in a rural area, and she explained to me that like we saw pretty much the same people every time, and we got to know them, and so we would mingle.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, once we're getting ready to run and compete, then you lock in, everybody goes to their own tents, your coach gives you your spiel, do a great job, whatever.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, no, at that point, if you're trying to focus, you don't want outsiders in.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but there's a difference between not wanting outsiders in and getting into an altercation over it.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: My boys didn't do track, but they attended every high school football game and they got to know the other team's supporters and other teams' players, and there was a healthy rivalry.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: But there was nothing like that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that it was a school rivalry.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that Carmelo Anthony was having some issues and maybe was angry.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can only speculate.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: I do wish that someone had gotten him help because he's now thrown his life away as well and taken somebody else with him and he didn't deserve that.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: So his sentence was 35 years, but with a possibility of getting out half and half the time.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: In Texas, you have to serve 50% of your sentence before you can be considered for parole.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of people saying, and this is another like misconception, is a lot of people are saying that, oh, he didn't get a fair trial.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: They threw the book at him, they gave him the most harsh sentence.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, they could have given him anywhere between five and ninety-nine years.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thirty-five years is not ninety-nine years.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Those numbers are not the same.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm glad he didn't get five.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would have been a serious miscarriage of justice.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also a big debate about whether this was manslaughter or murder.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people say, yeah, he did it, but it's manslaughter, not murder.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: People get really heated about the difference.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: That is a tough call because if murder has to be like premeditated, I don't think he set out to kill somebody that day, but he did leave the house with a knife in his pocket.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it was murder.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that this was manslaughter.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: He meant to kill him.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like he meant to cause harm.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: He brought a knife.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he had brought a knife to school before.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some oversight somewhere, because this shouldn't have happened.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it falls somewhere in between murder and manslaughter, because like we said earlier, he obviously meant to cause him some harm and he obviously drew the knife knowing he was going to use it because he didn't threaten first the knife.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: He just went ahead and used it.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: But did he know that that stab was going to kill somebody?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's not like a physician.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, could he have gone for the leg instead of the heart?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, the chest is the absolute worst place.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's not premeditated insofar as he probably didn't leave the house thinking I'm gonna murder somebody today, but he did leave the house with a knife in his pocket.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not necessarily he meant to kill him because that knife could have been two inches to the left and not struck the heart.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: So to me it's somewhere in between because manslaughter just seems like it's too mild, but murder seems like it's not like he set out to make sure that person didn't breathe again.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it was murder, and I think that he left his house that day with a chip on his shoulder and a knife in his backpack and like he had something to prove because there is no reason to go into an opposing school's tent and stay there when that you are asked to leave and then multiple times.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: He had multiple times to diffuse the situation and just walk away.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: He could have literally gone and gotten any adult there.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was surrounded by people, surrounded by people with phones, probably had his own phone.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: He stabbed him and then he took off and ran away.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you can run away, then why didn't you run away?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you leave when he was supposed to?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's murder.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think the jury got it right.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that 35 years is an appropriate sentence.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it was appropriate.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see if he's a model prisoner, if he gets parole.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I didn't see him express any remorse.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: But as we don't know a lot about his background, it's hard to tell.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would hope that if somebody that young is going to prison for that amount of time, I think it's appropriate because they're not going to die in prison.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: They do get a second chance, but they're in there long enough to hopefully come out a better person.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: I truly hope, yeah, that he gets some professional help while he's in there, figures out, you know, his issues, and I hope he can be reformed.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: But at the trial, he did not show any remorse whatsoever.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Zero.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: He was upset that he was going to prison, but he never showed any emotion when the family of Austin Metcalfe got up and gave their victim impact statements, which were heart-wrenching.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't look them in the eye and he showed no emotion.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, could that be because he's a kid and he truly can't grasp?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe he's in psychosis right now.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe he really is battling something mentally.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why they didn't do temporary insanity or something.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Self-defense was never going to win this case.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they did do him a disservice by doing self-defense.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, two families are destroyed.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: That community is destroyed.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those poor kids that witnessed it are destroyed.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you guys want to weigh in on any of this, please, you can email us, you can leave your comments, you can find us on our social media and keep the discussion going.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a fascinating one.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and just such a senseless tragedy.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that both families can heal as much as is humanly possible in a case like that.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, especially his twin.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that is all we have for the case of Austin Metcalfe and Carmelo Anthony.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: We will be back Friday for our usual weekly episode.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Barry Morphew.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that guy.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: That guy.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we hate him.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: We hate him.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, thanks for tuning in for the bonus episode.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: We hope that I don't want to say enjoyed it because there's nothing to enjoy about this, but we hope that you liked it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that it was thought-provoking for you.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that it opened up, you know, a dialogue for anybody who's been really firmly on one side or the other.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that I dispelled some rumors because people really are repeating stuff as fact that is just simply false.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, let us know what you think, and we will see you Friday.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, be divas.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not deadly.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.