Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Lead generation for Financial Planners – Nigel Borwell

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Lead generation for Financial Planners – Nigel Borwell · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Nigel Borwell.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Nigel is the joint CEO of LeadTech.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: LeadTech are a financial services lead generation company with a strong emphasis on generating good, strong, quality leads and clients, more importantly, for financial planning firms.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: They generate over 10,000 leads per month.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: 5,000 of those directly go to financial planning firms of all different shapes and sizes.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Lead generation tends to have a little shroud of black magic around it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: We get a bit nervous when somebody asks us to pay for a lead.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So today Nigel shares with us what to look out for when working with a lead generation company.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: What's a good quality lead generation company up against a bad one?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: We also talk about consumer input when it comes to generating the leads and how this big data is going to help shape better quality leads for the future for financial planning firms.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: We also talk about some of the testimonials from financial planning firms that have worked with him.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: One company generating over 80,000 under management directly from their lead sources.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of change going on at the moment with Google, with the FCA around advertising.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he talks a lot about that as well and about how financial planning firms need to be aware that the firm that is generating those leads now has to be authorized by the FCA if they are generating quality financial services leads.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Reach out to Nigel directly if you're looking to find out more.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Nigel.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Sam.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely great.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: The weather's uh weather's great this morning.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the sun is shining.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a pleasure to be on your show.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for inviting me.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: No problem at all.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, weather's a bit poor.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm freaking out a little bit because I'm going up to do the Three Peaks challenge this this uh this weekend.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we're wild camping as well.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not trying to do it in 24 hours, we're doing it across a few days.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think I'm gonna have to take the rough with the smooth, I think.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna be a bit wet one.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So a nice personal challenge for you.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh great stuff.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's do that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, Nigel, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for me, it's a really interesting subject matter.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's lead generation.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And throughout my 13 years of working with financial planners and recruiting within the space and talking to business owners, um we don't see a great deal of lead generation, especially through things like social media paid advertising happening with financial planning firms.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's starting to, and people are starting to sort of dip their toe in the ocean a little bit, but it's a bit kind of confusing for people, and I can understand why.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've been on the journey myself and I've invested in digital marketing, paid advertising, and it can sometimes be a bit confusing.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: You don't quite know what to do.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a huge amount of lead generation companies out there that consider themselves to be experts at targeting financial planning firms and saying, I'll guarantee you leads.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I thought today, bringing you on with your experience with lead tech, being the CEO there, setting this up and working predominantly within the financial planning space and having huge success and working well with financial planning firms, I thought you'd be a great person to bring on.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about what you do, demystify the sort of black magic associated, if you like, with lead generation, and kind of get an insight into some of the legislative changes that are happening as well and how that might well affect financial planning firms and hopefully start to weed out some of those scammers that are out there as well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So today, first off, actually, if you could just possibly introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about lead tech and um who you are and what you do.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, Sam.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, I hope I can add value uh for your listeners and give them a little bit more of an insight into what is the magic box of lead generation and what goes on there.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and hopefully um, you know, talk about some hints and tips as well for the advisors and planners as to you know how to kind of uh how to get the most out of lead generation, I would say.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So my name is Nigel Forwell, and one of the co-founders of a company called Lee Tech.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're based up in the north of England, uh, just northwest of uh Leeds City Centre.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we've got some lovely offices along the River Wharf.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're very lucky.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we started our business, Sam, back in 2008.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with a very, very small team, uh, no investment at all.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've kind of grown the business organically since then.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we started off in the pension space, uh, generating leads for um uh one or two large companies.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um we are now about 44 staff with the intention to grow to around 60 by the end of this financial year.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um we generate around about 10,000 leads a month on average.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we can go into a little bit more detail about that.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um around about one about one million consumers annually visit our websites who are looking for financial advice and some kind of help.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we deal with hundreds of financial advisors up and down the country.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're certainly one of the biggest lead generation firms um in the financial services space, and in particular the financial advice market.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a real kind of core area of ours, which I'm sure we'll go into.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the as I say, the kind of pen offices are over here in Leeds.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've got about 10,000 square feet, uh, some great offices.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and hopefully we'll go into a little bit more about what's important to lead tech moving forwards and building the business.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a real focus on people and technology and kind of having great offices and a great space to work and collaborate as part of that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, been a lot of challenges over the last 18 months, and we're only just getting back into the office, which is fantastic.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that real connection that we've all struggled with uh uh around the pandemic, um, we're really starting to kind of get that back, which is brilliant.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Nigel, that's really interesting, actually.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you're a you know, you're a lead generation company, predominantly what you do is online, and as a tech company, there's this kind of assumption that you guys can all just sit at home, work from home, work from the beach.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it doesn't really matter.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: You get these, you know, well, you know what it's like.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: You get these adverts pop up.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a digital marketer and I'm sat on the beach in Bali, you know, earning 10,000 pounds a month.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now, as a business owner, and I'm a business owner also, I've got staff and I've got offices.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: How excited were you about getting back into the offices?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And do you think the offices is essential for collaborative thinking and pushing a business forward?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, hugely, hugely exciting.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, over the last 18 months as business owners, we've we've all kind of had challenges, haven't we, Sam?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been really tough.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the biggest challenges is the fatigue around Zoom calls, relentless Zoom calls every day.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and whilst the business has run perfectly well and we've done okay, um, you know, really pleased, I guess, in hindsight given circumstances, yeah, there's no substitute for getting in the room and for collaborating and just feeling that connection.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to think at Leitech, in terms of that culture, we try to foster a feeling for everybody in the team, that's that kind of family feel.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult to kind of achieve that when you're all working remotely.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So to get back in the office and just to see the buzz now, you know, it's taken a few weeks because you know, we all have to adapt to change, don't we?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the reverse is true.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Coming back into the office, it's been a little bit of a transition, obviously, and some people feel a little bit unsure about things, but I've really seen over the last three weeks a change, and we've got that buzz back, it's great.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mentioned the size of the space we've got, you know.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there are kind of 60 people planned at the end of the day.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of space for collaboration.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've invested mostly in all that space.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how important it is to the business.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Fabulous.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think this was well, it's given us as business owners an opportunity to really look at how we work best and how our staff work best.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm speaking for myself here, really, but we're embracing the flexible working, you know, it's having the office space here, collaborative working, allowing someone to come in and work um within the office, but also sort of saying, look, you know, you are responsible for your own desk and your own business, essentially, within mine.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you work from home when you want to work from home?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: What we didn't want is this kind of idea going back to this old school thinking that you've got to be here between eight and six to be considered to be working.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I think actually now it's the proofs in the pudding.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: We've had some of our best months where people have been in and out of the office working flexible, the hours that they want to have.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we've really changed our whole well-being proposition.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also things like the benefits.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're bringing in things like unlimited holidays and all that kind of stuff because it's just why does it have to be so rigid and so controlling?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, a happy workforce can work from home and work in the office.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm a firm believer myself that it's not one way or the other.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it I think the office is hugely important.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: You look at the likes of Goldman Sachs, etc., and some of the city banks are saying, look, we want people in here, and rightfully so because they're learning from people.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: You do your best learning as a trainee when listening to somebody who's done the job for quite some time.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right, Sam.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of started out by asking the questions.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: We did a survey and just said, look, what is it you want?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and what came back was this it's a balance, isn't there?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's the benefits of being in the office and everything we just kind of talked about.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's also benefit from working from home and getting your head down and just really getting stuck in and being productive.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we're trying to do, and I don't know if this is going to be the best way, I think we're all learning out.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna try and find what works and what doesn't and get that balance.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, try and get more meetings when we're in the office and try and get more work done when we're not in the office, and I think that would work well.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, everybody's really excited about um doing both, I think.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fabulous.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, let's get straight into it then.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know you said, Lead Tech, one of the largest firms out there that specialise in lead generation for financial services firms, and within that niche yourself, you know, a bit like me, you specify specifically work with financial planners.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And a big part of what you do is is um is providing good quality, qualified leads for financial planning firms to help them grow.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now, as we sort of alluded to at the very beginning with the introduction, lead generation can be a bit of a confusing and quite stress-inducing uh worry for some firms.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: They feel like they've got to do it because they, you know, that's what everyone's doing at the moment, but they can often feel quite anxious about how to start it, what's the right amount of money to spend, how do you generate leads?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: What's the competition like?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Am I going to get the big one, a return on investment?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the huge things.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it'll be really lovely if you could just kind of talk to us a little bit about lead generation at the very beginning here.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: What it is in this world right now, what really say financial planning firms have to consider, just kind of demystify some of the myths a little bit for us.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So over to you, Ridd.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just give us a kind of an overview of what's going on in that world for financial planners.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, no, no problem, Sam.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: As you said, it's it's it's quite a daunting thing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we do get a lot of planners and advisors come to us that have heard from a colleague or a friend that they they buy leads and it works really well, and they get all these positive stories.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they come with this almost illusion of grandeur with expectation that they'll buy leads and you know they'll they'll just get rich almost.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um, our kind of role is really important in that process, I think, and in terms of trying to explain how it all works, but not not all companies are the same.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what I wanted to do is go back, as you say, Sam, to the grassroots and and try explain what I think lead generation is.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a typical kind of model out there, and you know, over the years, um, we've we've certainly worked that way, and we've there's a lot of companies that have replicated what we do, and um, I'd like to think we do and have and will keep leading the way in terms of trying to drive this industry.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, I mean lead generation, but also specifically kind of in financial services.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So lead generation is a term, it's its own industry, as I said.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was speaking earlier this year at the Lead Generation World Conference about a particular subject around developing and building partnerships, which was really interesting.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's its own sort of industry, um, but it's a very broad umbrella term, and it can mean lots of things from you know years gone by, from buying data, you know, people that are filling surveys, and and thank God this type of activity has diminished now since the construction of GDPR.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: But there's still some of this activity about, so regeneration can cover all these kinds of things.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and generally, I think it means is any activity that engages the consumer um with with a view of generating a lead or a sales opportunity, I would say that's the definition.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And as you can appreciate, a lot of activity can fall into that if that's what you're trying to achieve.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I find is typically the main lead generation model, and I wanted to kind of maybe go into maybe how that would work from an advisor perspective, and then maybe touching it from a consumer perspective, that was okay.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fine.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that might lead us nicely into maybe how our business, what we've learned and how that's evolved a little bit.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but typically, yeah, uh a lead generation business would just, you know, I I often find, and it's not always the case, but it's quite short-sighted.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's about that initial short-term win and just trying to find somebody who's willing to buy a lead, you know, and ultimately in this space, in this industry, there's no shortage of financial advisors and planners that want to buy these.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: What I found over the years is actually, and I've really thought about it, it's not the leads that the advisors want, it's new clients.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But still, the kind of way these businesses run, you know, are quite typical.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, um, you know, say they'll run some websites, they'll try and attract as many consumers as they can.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not always the best experience for the consumer.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And here's here's the thing, you know, it's about that kind of transaction.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's about kind of getting the consumer from A to Z as quickly as possible and to provide their information.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what I found is those leads are not always great quality, and there's a balance between managing expectations of what what to expect with leads, because all leads aren't perfect at the end of the day.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but it but in terms of the kind of end user coming to the lead generator, you know, um the journey's not always a great one, um, and the expectations are not always managed correctly either.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it what what ends up happening is it's not a great experience for either, um, and quite often more than not, it can be a short-term kind of a very, very short-term kind of experience for everybody.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I I just think there's a lot of kind of traits that I've seen over the years of companies that work a certain way, and almost view um leads as data and and actually, not people, which is uh I think I think a big part of that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're looking at there is then really just sort of understanding what you're saying.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like this is the relationship with the advisor and the lead company.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: So how the you know, how they work together, a lead might come across and it's not being looked at as a human being, it's being looked at a piece of data or a number on a sheet.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not being looked at in that way.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that kind of advisor working with a lead company, you're the lead company providing that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if we looked at it in a different way, and we looked at it from the sense of like, okay, so um digital marketing, lead generation, financial planning firms perhaps don't want to work with a lead generation company, what are the things that let's look at the things that let's put ourselves in the mind of the advisor.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: What can they do themselves, okay, to generate leads?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps what kind of problems or challenges might they come up against by doing so?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, in theory, um, you know, there's no reason why a firm or an individual advisor for that matter couldn't actually set up um uh a campaign that was um almost similar to a lead generation company.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've I've seen many companies do that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the challenge, of course, is one of compliance.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to kind of recognise that there's some real risk there trying to kind of comply with the FCA and the regulator, um, you know, the type of messages that they can use and the approach itself.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, there's a real risk there if they don't know what they're doing, that they could stray into kind of an area which could get them into trouble.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just think there's a real challenge in terms of knowledge and skill set as well.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know you can spend a lot of money with Google.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, certainly the kind of paid uh sort of model that they run.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I've I've seen companies spend thousands of pounds in a day just because they don't know what they're doing.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some real risks there.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a reason why a lot of um a lot of companies come to us is because they've tried it, they've tried to do it themselves.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and as I've said, Sam, they they kind of ultimately want to grow their client base for one reason or another.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in pursuit of doing that, they're they're trying to kind of, yeah, because it makes sense, doesn't it?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna cut the middleman out and I'm gonna just go direct and and try and attract people to my website.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, when it doesn't work, I think they they they tend to come to us and hopefully think we're the answer.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you know, that's a really valid, it's a really valid point, actually.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because if if let's say, for example, let's take it back.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a if you're a financial planner, perhaps you've got a smaller firm, you know that you would like to grow, you know you'd like to generate some leads, perhaps you wanted to generate leads because you want to employ some more financial planners.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: You want to grow your business and grow your assets under management.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're looking to do.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Good quality.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, like, and one thing you touched on there, I think it's so important for a financial planner to understand it's like you are a financial planner.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or you are a business owner and a financial planner, and you're the admin manager, and you're the office manager, and now you're back to put on a marketing hat.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: So now you now all of a sudden you're a digital marketer.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Plus you're trying to run your social media, plus it's like there's so many hats that need to be worn for a business owner or a financial planner.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're trying to say here is that, you know, it's about utilizing your time to the best of your ability, which is sitting down in front of good quality clients and doing what you do best, which is building relationships and bringing those clients on board and getting the assets under management and providing a good service to those consumers.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: When you start adding digital marketing to that, and I am totally aware of it as well, because running a flat recruitment business, I started dipping into digital marketing.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and in the last two years, I've got a podcast here, you know, I've I've become the marketer for our business.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing is for sure that it is a skill set and it is a discipline.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And by trying to do it yourself, all you're kind of doing is trying to save money.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And by trying to save money, something has to give.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's usually generating business through, or you know, some part of your business is going to slip.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember kind of adding it all up, really, because I thought, well, you know, hire a digital marketer for 40 grand a year, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: That digital marketer doesn't mean that they're going to do absolutely everything for you.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: It just means they're going to manage the process of marketing.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So then all of a sudden you think, well, we'll have this, we'll do social media this, and we'll do Google AdWords over here, and we'll write some adverts over here, and we'll do some SEO work over here, and we'll have the new website being built.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, you're putting all that pressure on this guy who's coming through at 40 grand a year or girl, and then not taking into consideration the cost and the resource and the time and the energy that actually goes into all of this and the testing.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's huge amounts of testing that needs to be done on job, you know, on adverts alone.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden, that cost becomes not 40 plus, you know, your tax, you know, the everything else which goes on top of it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's that person then using all the other other other resources.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, the total cost of a marketer within your business might cost you around 80 grand a year.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's something that needs to be taken into consideration with financial planning firms.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: So when they start looking at these lead companies outside of it, that's where it becomes this kind of like, oh, okay, well, that's actually could be quite cost effective to do so.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that the they let their guard down a little bit and they trust, don't they, then the person who's the expert in it, as long as they've got the evidence to provide to show that they can deliver a return on investment.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think time.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Resources, as you've mentioned, budget and skills are a huge part of um why people either fail at trying to generate leads online um or are put off if you like because they're trying to do it themselves.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh yeah, absolutely.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just so much that goes into it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think to do it properly, you've got to really invest in this.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the, you know, we deal with we'll do we'll deal with individual advisors all the way up to kind of multinational firms, but certainly, you know, individual advisors, especially ones that are new out of an academy, that that they're kind of on the first one of the ladder, they've not yet established any kind of relationships for referrals and networking, you know, but they want to really grow their client base and you know, chomping at the bit.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And love working with those because do you know what they've they've got a great attitude, they're really open, they're not tainted by you know what's been going on.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially the challenges for anybody, whatever stage they're at in their career, whether an individual or a firm, is you know, they're time poor.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's a huge amount of investment, as you said, quite rightly there, Sam, required.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: They don't really realize the full extent.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what they get with a company like LeadTech is, you know, it's a full team, you know.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when they um, you know, when they kind of buy our services, not just buying leads, they're buying our expertise and our knowledge um and the whole depth around around the team, working, working for them.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you look at it like that, it it might just change your perspective.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And do you know what?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the big point is financial planners are better actually advising clients and talking to them and and doing what they do best.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my that's my kind of view based on on years of experience.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we've we've just learned for probably all those reasons that financial advisors and planners aren't actually very good at working leagues because they're time poor.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we can come in.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, we we've evolved our services and adapted our services to suit really.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I wanted to kind of maybe touch on some of those things because I think it's important that, you know, rather than just keep doing what we're always doing, which I think a lot of companies out there are still continuing to do, and that's just providing leads regardless of knowing that financial advisors are not great at working them.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's quite a short-term kind of view.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is why you tend to see by you know a lot of transient sort of um activity, you know, they'll dip in and out uh of buying leads, they'll try different companies.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've tried to kind of look at that and just change it in the way that, you know, um again, it comes down to experience at the end of the day and trying to build a longer-term kind of relationship.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the big things that we've done, which I think has worked really well, is we've kind of bolted on additional services like lead engagement services and effectively appointment setting.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if we provide leads, we'll also work the leads for you.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's that's really worked well because, as I said, they can do what they do best, and with and it's just making sure they've got the transparency and the trust that we're actually going to work their leads properly, obviously.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that that kind of service is just an example of something where, as a business, we've learned and we've adapted and we've changed our propositions to provide a better service.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of be a bit careful what you wish for, isn't it?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've been in this situation because you think to yourself, well, I need leads.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's just a word that gets used in any kind of sales role or whatever.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I need leads, I need business.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's almost kind of like sometimes you can turn a tap on, generate a load of leads, and you and you're overwhelmed.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't take it doesn't take like 25 or 30 or 40 leads.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: It can you can be overwhelmed with five.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you don't have the time and and the resources in place to really qualify those leads, which is a skill set within its own right.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's time consuming because you've got to kiss a few frogs, haven't you, sometimes uh to get a princess or a prince.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think that's a great thing that you've recognized there.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: There is no point in creating a lead generation company where all you're doing is throwing leads at somebody uh for them just to go, Jesus Christ, I can't deal with this.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens is those leads don't get worked.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So they might get an email, they might, you know, they they might not even be going into their database to be kind of continuingly, you know, continually marketed to.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there might not even be a phone call being picked up because quite simply that advisor just doesn't have the time to actually do it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think adding a service as a lead generation company that sits in between the lead and then the advisor to qualify is a very powerful thing for a lead gen company that specializes in financial planning to do.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: So is that tell us a little bit more about that?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: What how did that come about and why it was why did it come about?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have sort of trial and error happen a lot?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, um absolutely.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we we found um at times we had um issues with uh attrition, you know, so retaining advisors and ultimately who'd want to build long-term relationships, certainly with the smaller advisors.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just over time we we kind of learn from sharing data, sharing experiences.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I wanted to kind of touch on later in terms of you know how we've changed and evolved as a business and where data fits into that and understanding what works and what doesn't.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, we we kind of recognized that um certain types of customers, certainly the individual advisors and small firms, were really struggling, you know, retaining some of the bigger firms, and they were, you know, they were they were growing and were achieving what we're looking to do there.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a you know essentially a long-term kind of relationship.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the smaller advisors were, you know, they were coming on, they were lasting a few months, and then they were coming off.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, what happens if it doesn't work, they just blame the leads.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when you really kind of delve into this, it's not always the leads, it's it's the way the way that the B words and it's the approach and the processes.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is quite scientific, Sam.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we've as I say I spoke about this earlier in the year on the uh um, you know, on the leader relations world conference, and and and this this was about a framework that we've developed over the years that kind of sets out really clearly what they need to do, and I guess a process that they need to follow to be successful, and that's at any level, whether it's an individual advisor all the way up to a large multinational firm.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially the gap is um they don't have the resource to be able to contact the leads, and you know, sometimes you need you need a call cadence, you need a process, you need to repeat it, you need you need people in place to do it for you.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we started out by suggesting everybody did that, but of course, individual advisors don't have that resource.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where it came about, really.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: We just thought, well, we've got an internal team, that internal team has always been there because we we can speak to consumers and try to understand their experience and things like that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we already had the foundations of the team to be able to speak to the consumer.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we just decided to expand on that and try it, and it just worked really well.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what we found was um advisors that were working their own leads were creating appointments at around about just over 20 percent.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Our team internally were uh you know, very quickly were uh achieving just just over double, so just you know, between 40 and 45 percent.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what that what that told us really early on was you know the efficiencies of the process uh of being able to handle these and the conversations as well that we were having.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously we were quite experienced at doing this.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um when you when you're handing out these to hundreds of financial advisors and planners, they're all very different, and they've all got different skill levels, so it's quite complex.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what you find within that is probably the biggest percentage of of advisors and planners can actually handle these consistently.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they might have a good month, but they're busy, as you suggested, they're busy doing what they do, um, and then they might have a poor month the next month.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so it's a it's been a real kind of positive step forwards for us.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about realistic expectations, because again, I think expectations are the types of things that can trip us up, can't they?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have this expectation in our head that it's gonna be, you know, it's gonna be this or it's gonna be that, and I'm gonna be earning this much.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, you've got you've just sort of touched on the types of financial planning firms that you work with.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds to me that you work with anybody who's an individual, perhaps even a startup, smaller, medium sized enterprise that's looking to grow, which there are going to be an abundance of those over the coming years.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I genuinely think we're in a startup phase of financial planning, although it's been around for some time.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a startup phase.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then you've got the larger firms.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the larger firms have got the resources in place and they've perhaps gone through lead generation before and they know how to manage it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas the smaller firms don't.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's think about it from an expectation perspective.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say I'm a financial planner, I'm a small firm, I'm looking to grow and I want to bring on some more leads.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm working with you, League Tech, to help me, what should I expect in month one, month two, month three?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And am I tied into some kind of contract or how does it work?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Generally speaking, um, with any league provider, you shouldn't be really tied into a long-term contract.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what I would say, and this is all about managing expectations, and I think a lot of companies don't do this bit very well, Sam, and this is something we've just learned to do really well because it's so important.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's that early stage where, you know, I think I mentioned earlier, you know, that they've heard from a friend or a colleague that, you know, um within their network, for example, that they, you know, lead generation is is amazing and it's the way forward.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they come to us, you know, um with you know, they come to us with certain expectations that aren't realistic.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So our first job is to manage those expectations, um, certainly to understand their circumstances.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a process with a financial planner speaking to a consumer.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll do a fact find, we'll understand their circumstances, what their expectations are, um, and we'll just we'll just manage them.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I would say in terms of month one, two, and three, and this is where it requires a little bit of investment, you know, whilst you can get a return on your investment in month one, it is unlikely because ultimately, you know, it takes time, it takes time to um you know to nurture potential clients through to some kind of business and ongoing relationship.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you're looking at that initial fees for for advice, then that might only be a fraction of you know that lifetime income.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's an element of starting to see those initial fees pay for the leads, and that could potentially take anywhere from you know two, three, even up to six months.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: But then what you've got is that effect and impact of that lifetime value.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we try to educate advisors within this process.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, it's it's just conversations we we've been used to having, and those those have kind of changed and developed over time.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: What would also be good for the listener to understand is do you use their brand, so their company page, et cetera?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you because or do you, as a business, have micro websites, landing pages, specific campaigns that are unbranded?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how because you know that would that would be a question that I would be asking.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if I was, if I had my own business, it'd be like, well, are you using my brand?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Are you attracting, you know, using my face?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do you generate that lead and how do you work with the advisor in that way?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, typically um companies work in different ways in this respect, but typically we we build our own brands which um are perceived by the consumer as being independent.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things you alluded to actually, Sam, I think one of the challenges that advisors have just generally is consumer trust always been there to some degree.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the pandemic hasn't helped with that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we we know, for example, you know, there's been an increase in pension scams and and certainly over this period.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I was just looking at that last night, it's frightening.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's frightening just how there's about 2.2 million in pension funds in this year alone off the back of the pandemic.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's double from last year, you know.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I guess that kind of strays into some of the conversations which hopefully we'll have around maybe some of the regulation side and and and what we're trying to do as a business to kind of support that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's um it's it's it's it's it's kind of really, really challenging.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um sorry, I've kind of lost my train of thought on that question, but I thought it came out.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: How so just when it comes to actual lead generation without giving away the game, are you using the financial planner's branding or are you, you know, how are you going about doing it?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, when you when you start looking at marketing, it's all about landing pages, you know, it's all about Google AdWords, perhaps Facebook adverts, all that kind of stuff.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, are you plastering their brand out there and building brand awareness for them?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Are you working with them that way?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you have tried and tested, tried and tested websites, landing pages?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: You've spent a lot of money and invested a lot of money in SEO, that kind of thing, that drives leads in that way, and therefore you distribute it to the right advisor that's within a specific location.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: How does it work?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we we it's a model at we we've invested heavily in our own uh websites and and and tried to build brands.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh over the years, we we've probably had up to a dozen different sites.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And at the moment, I would say we probably we probably use around about three or four brands that seem to resonate the best.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we tested them over the years with the consumer.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we spend, I don't know, around about 350,000, 400,000 pounds a month um, you know, driving consumers to these sites.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a whole range of sort of themes within there from pensions, retirement, investment, all the kind of things that you'd expect financial planners and advisors to really want to advise potential clients on.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we use all those things to attract consumers at different stages in their journey.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we know there are triggers that that sends consumers online looking for various services.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: What we find, Sam is people are just confused.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're confused as to how it all works, whether they need advice in the first place.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So our site is arraigned at trying to talk about financial advice and the benefits of financial advice, um, demystify, I guess, a little bit about the whole subject, um, and speak some of them in a very plain English way, which I think is really important.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just explain the benefits and also the cost of not getting advice.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think there's a real kind of uh there's a real kind of value to get advice and cost to potentially not getting advice in certain circumstances.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Great stuff.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so did you mention their 300 to 450,000 a month you spent?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I did.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we spend a lot of money on on advertising.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously um, you know, we're attracting a million consumers to our sites every year.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do try to um uh we are developing our organic strategies, and this is obviously the SEO side of things.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think moving forwards, this is where we're trying to um develop more content around some of the subjects that we've talked about.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I mentioned right at the beginning um about this business and how we've developed over the years, what we've learned in terms of what advisors want, but um very much a transition now and breakaway from um what I would class as a typical lead generation model, the ones that we've described before, where we kind of feel they're a bit short-term.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: They don't really think about the consumer.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: They might even see that as just a lead or data.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we're taking very much a different view now, Sam, that actually um what we want to do is is be recognized in the industry because we're passionate about financial advice and the value that that brings.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, be recognized in the industry for a company that's not just a lead generation company, because I kind of think it's bigger than that, but actually a consumer-led um business.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really is um kind of where we're taking the business, really thinking about the experience the consumer's having, um, starting to engage more with the consumer, whether that's just online but mainly over the phone, we're doing a lot more of that.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that allows us to start to think about and speak to them about what it is they're looking for and their needs.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, then it becomes about trying to match them, match them with the right type of service providers with within this industry.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel when we start to get to that, that's when we'll be able to add true value.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think the history of lead generation sites sometimes can, especially with the unscrupulous ones and the ones that don't really know what they're talking about, can be associated with scams.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Scams, you know, there's a huge amount of people that pay a lot of money to put their job, you know, to put their adverts at the top of Google, but yet they've got absolutely no understanding of financial services, as you rightfully said there, no care really for the end consumer.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're not educating them or, you know, thinking about their well-being at that initial stage.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And all they're doing is generating these leads, they're sending them off to financial planners and they're charging them for the lead.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no qualification on it, there's no thought or consideration to the consumer.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's almost also companies that are just putting out high returns, you know, and you know, we'll invest this money for you and we'll do that.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: And lo and behold, the poor consumer is being misled on a uh a platform such as Google, um, of which they feel that they can trust it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there are a huge amount of changes that are happening um in the profession, but also online.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: So with Google, the FDA coming together to create a legislation that does protect the consumer, but also as well, ensures that financial planning firms or financial services firms are abiding by the rules and they can be fined and you know um imprisoned, I suspect, at some point, if there's going to be some sort of major issue going on.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: But so you probably know a little bit about that then.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that new Google Ads financial products and services policy.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Can you just tell us a little bit about that and um and what's going on and how that might affect financial planning firms and also the consumers?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is coming into its force around it's coming to force at the end of September.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or I'll beg your pardon, it's coming to force at the end of August, but will actually be operating from I think it's the 6th of September.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this has come about, and uh, you know, I I think it's I think all the signs have been there for a while now that this downward pressure from the regulator on Google and other advertising platforms because of you know, because of the scams, because of the unscrupulous companies that are out there that you know are putting kind of messages out there as consumers, attracting them in, and ultimately, you know, it's not a great experience, and potentially even a scam, as we talked about earlier.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just not great, and and we are absolutely over the moon about these changes.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the business, we were talking about this around about 18 months ago, and we decided to um to to apply for direct authorization with the FCA.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: My issue, Sam, has always been um you know, it's a regulated world that we're operating in, but lead generation isn't regulated, and it's just so jarring.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and what we wanted to do, yeah, we wanted to future-proof the business because I kind of felt that this was always going to happen.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the pandemic has brought us a little bit more forward, um, you know, in terms of action.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I knew it was going to happen.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So by being regulated, I felt we we were certainly um future-proof and de-risking that that scenario as far as lead tech's concerned.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I also wanted to add value.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think from a consumer's point of view, you know, it's really credible for them to have that reassurance and comfort that whoever they're dealing with is authorized and regulated.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as we know, a lot of lead generation companies aren't um at the moment.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the main change here is from the 6th of September, as a lead generation company or marketing agency, if you're not directly authorized or authorized as a third party.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or by a third party, so indirectly authorized, then you will not be able to continue to promote financial services in any way.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big, big change in the industry.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So as it happens, it's not going to affect LeadTech, but certainly will be affecting many, many lead generators in the industry.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know that there's a certain amount of money that's being put in, I think it's around five million quid or something that's being sort of put into this to try to help the process to uh ensure that they do weed out the um, you know, these fake companies, the ones that aren't following the rules and regulations.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: But as you alluded to a minute ago, you know, you're spending nearly 400,000 a month on advertising yourself.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So five million to me sounds like a really big figure, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And also, as well, Google's huge, right?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Google's massive.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there are so many different ways that you can manipulate SEO and manipulate your ranking to be able to promote and any service that you want, right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Crikey can get away with selling drugs online.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not a different, you know.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, also then take into consideration some of these major platforms, social media platforms, TikTok, huge, you know, YouTube, um, obviously owned by Google, but you've got Facebook, you've got Instagram.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a it's a great start, isn't it?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: But what a huge task.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think this will make a massive difference?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it will make a difference?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, you're doing the right thing by getting yourself FDA authorized because obviously if you're a financial planning firm and you're generating and if you're bringing a lead in from a source that isn't covered, then perhaps there could be liability down the line that you're not doing your due diligence correctly and that you're not sort of working with the right lead methods of attracting clients in.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: But back to my point, really.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you how how long do you think it's gonna take to really, really make a difference on these kind of fake adverts and uh fake you know, financial coaches and all the people promising the riches and the bad leads?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do you think it's gonna make an impact or not?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I would like to think it will make an impact going forward, but as you quite rightly said, it's huge.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a start.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great start, and I think this is a catalyst for change.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there are lots and lots of lead generation businesses out there, and uh, I can't speak for the FCA, but it's my I don't know, it's my feeling that you know, um, you know, regulating all these businesses um is is a huge undertaking across all these different channels.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um how how how how that will evolve and change, I don't know whether it's going to get consolidated and you know, just the the larger companies will get less, it'll be easier to kind of regulate.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think it's a start, Sam.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think other companies will follow.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think other you know, other advertising platforms will will follow quite quickly.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I would think.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would encourage other lead generation companies that want to do it right to follow as well, you know, follow our footsteps because you know this is this is doing the right thing.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is for the greater good in this industry and and in other industries as well, you know.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so um I think the days are gone where it's about trying to make a quick book, it's trying to generate as many of these and sell them uh as much as you can uh and make as much profit as you can.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we're a long-term business, we're a credible business, you know, our reputation is important.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if those things are important to you and developing long-term partnerships are important to you, then it's not about the short term, is it?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about doing it in the right way.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, not to kind of repeat myself here, but I firmly believe it starts with the consumer and giving them a great experience.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's ultimately what the FCA are trying to do, and you know, by working with Google and trying to kind of just remove some of these unscrupulous businesses, you know.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think one thing and a message to be very clear right this right at this point is that this isn't something that's being planned.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that is taking effect, and it's taking effect from the 6th of September 2021.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are a financial planning firm, if you're thinking about working with a lead company or you are being approached by lead generation companies that are promising you the earth, one of the key things right now you should be you should be questioning them is are you, you know, are you authorized to be able to advertise financial products?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: And can you show me that?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a real risk now, isn't there?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there always has been, uh, you know, I think you alluded to it earlier, that it's been a responsibility for the advisor, you know, of firm to, you know, do their background checks and to make sure that you know what the you know, the company that provided them leads are are correct.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's quite often, you know, advisors come to us and they don't ask us the question.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we we kind of naturally go through those steps and talk to them about the right things.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I I would imagine if if companies don't do that, then maybe that gets overlooked.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, absolutely, it's it's really, really important now that if you're going to buy leads in any form, make sure that they're authorized um, you know, with with the FCA.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because if you don't, then obviously there's a real risk there for your firm.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, as well, if you're doing that, if you're working with the right lead companies, you're contributing to the protection and the good brand image of financial planning, which everybody wants to ensure remains squeaky clean, you know, um to the old days of just flogging products.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: We want this kind of profession to be looked upon as being a vital service to the young consumer, a well-being product.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're if you're toeing the line and you're not just trying to get a cheap, you know, a quick buck or a cheap way to generate leads, etc., and you're working with the wrong people, then all you're doing is contributing to the problem.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: So therefore, make sure that you ask the FTA, you know, ask around the FTA authorisation.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Nigel, I read in the IFA um in IFA magazine.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know Alex Sullivan actually, who runs IFA magazine.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I done uh we set up Gunnar and Co.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: together, which is an IFA acquisition business some some time back.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyway, enough about that.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I saw your advert in there, um, uh your advertorial, and it was saying that you guys were one of the first then to get the FCA authorization.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is that still the case?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sort of leaving the pack here?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we we believe we are the first, if one of the first or even the first, because you know, we started out this this journey, uh Sam, um back in autumn last year.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that it takes around four to six months.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, there'll be a lot of companies that didn't expect this to happen and will be reacting to this.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said earlier, it was a it was a real kind of strong part of our strategy uh over 12, potentially 18 months ago to get authorized anyway.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was more than just protecting the business.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that was a key thing, but it was about trying to get on the same page as our customers, you know.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, why should they have to kind of do those checks and due diligence?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's let's give them some comfort that we're an authorised firm and we we understand.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and for the consumer as well, as I said before.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always a firm part of our strategy.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I would suggest that we're quite ahead of the curve by a number of months.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the same time, as I said, I do I do encourage companies to kind of follow suit, and I think they will do now, obviously, to continue to uh uh you know to do what they do.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um just going back, Sam, if I may, to um, you know, I guess asking the questions, uh, the SCA uh is a is a is a big one, isn't it, now and very relevant.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll put that top of the list.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there are a number of things that advisors and planners need to think about when they're shopping around and when they're thinking about lead generation.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there'll be a lot of companies out there and firms that haven't bought leads before.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh equally, there'll be a lot of there'll be a lot of uh your audience that have bought leads and had some experience, and maybe it's not worked.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd be more than happy to kind of share some of our insights if if that would be of use.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Far away.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think um I think if you've not bought leads before, I think it's important um to ask the right questions.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can obviously provide a lot more around that.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially, you know, um understand more about the journeys, their websites, what does that consumer kind of journey look like?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not just the sites themselves, but take it all the way back to the the advert, the adverts, the messages, what are their advertising campaigns, which channels do they use, you know, and and try to understand that full experience that the the consumer would go on.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that tells you quite a bit about whether that would be a good fit for your business, you know.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is it more around retirement?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is it more around IHT?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just general financial advice?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's a really good way of trying to kind of understand um what to expect when you buy leads.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, try to understand a little bit about their process.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, what approach do they take to supporting you as a financial planner, given that you don't know anything about buying leads, you've never worked leads before?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: What how will they help you?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what does that process look like?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know we can demonstrate that um as a part of the framework we created, as I said, but um, and that's a great question to I don't think you can be overly thorough around some of this stuff, because ultimately you could be talking anywhere from you know, depends on what you're buying, but anything from£50 up to hundreds of pounds for a for an introduction of some kind.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now, you know, you could quite easily be spending thousand pounds and thousands of pounds in a month.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if that's not working for you or your expectations not being met because you've not maybe thought enough about this right at the outset and really sort of um checked who you're working with, um, then you know you are throwing good money after bad.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, okay.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's some really good tips there.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: What about um okay?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think also as well, when it comes to lead generation and working with lead generation companies and marketing companies, for example, there's um a kind of you know, money always comes up and how much it costs.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an area that people are always kind of slightly anxious talking about, you know, money.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we all we we all like, oh how much is it gonna cost, mate?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um can you kind of give us a kind of understanding?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a financial planner, I I want to generate leads, okay.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: What are the what is the typical cost?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: You alluded there to 50 to 100 pounds.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is it pay, is it pay per lead?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is it pay for conversion?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just tell us a little bit about how much it costs and how you come to those calculations.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think a starting point to that is there are lots of different models out there.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: A common one in the market is a pay per lead model, which as it suggests, for every lead that you buy, that that is in criteria, um you will pay an amount.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that depends on um what type of lead it is, whether it's a general lead or whether you know someone just looking for financial advice or whether it's a specific kind of lead.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: If that lead has been qualified and to what level it's been qualified, so you know, and again, I sort of sort of mentioned this before, but thankfully it's been weedied out.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, just buying data, you know, there were companies selling that for a few pounds, you know, whilst technically that's lead generation, um, it isn't the kind of lead generation activity that I've ever been involved in.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not it, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend advisors and planners kind of get involved in that kind of thing.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, so there is a kind of flaw to this, but I would say generally, you're probably looking at upwards of£100 for a typical lead where a consumer has come onto a website, they have expressed some interest in financial advice around a particular area, um, and then their information will be sent on to you.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: So upwards of£100.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: What might happen then is um the company might qualify that a little bit further, so they might speak to them.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or they might ask more information online.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that might just change the price or alter the price.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially we'll speak to them over the phone, find out a little bit more, do a mini-fact find.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you could be you could be looking at hundreds of pounds there.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: If the consumer then, dependent on the net wealth, that could be another factor.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if we were to speak to somebody and they had a million pounds as opposed to 50,000 pounds, then that might alter the value of the lead as well.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are some companies, Sam, that um might operate slightly different models where you know it might be a paper conversion of some kind, or there might be an arrangement where they pay something up front, but then they pay some kind of um ongoing fee based on the value of that that client once it's established, um, which is interesting.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of different ways it can work, and and again, your your listeners might want to think about what would suit them and ask the right questions when when they're having those conversations.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, ultimately, to generate a lead, it costs money.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mentioned we spend you know anywhere between 250 and 400,000 pounds from peak months of the year.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's across all our advertising platforms, um, but we do spend a lot of money with Google.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're always the winner in this, isn't it, aren't they?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, I mean, there's costs to buying those leads for us, um, and we're always managing those costs and trying to make those um work for us.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we work off by tight margins.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think lead generation companies tend to do that.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, a lead might cost us, you know,£50, for example.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: We might sell it for£100, which sounds like a huge profit.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when you start to consider the amount of leads that are in a criteria, so the consumer might only have a thousand pounds, and that really isn't right to pass on to an IFA, for example.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they wouldn't pay£100 for that, quite rightly.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we couldn't sell that.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a there's a lot of leads that fall out of scope that we cannot sell.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when you kind of factor it and work it all through, um, you know, um, you know, the margins are very tight at the end of the day.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just giving you some example numbers there.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially it's based on what we sell them for, is based on what they typically cost us.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Nigel, with the you mentioned there about the pre-qualified and unqualified.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so let's say, for example, I was a financial planner and I didn't want to subscribe to the service of qualifying that client lead.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that client lead came through because they were interested in um potentially a pension transfer.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: That pension transfer came through to me.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: Am I going to receive any kind of information about that client?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do you take anything from a pre-qualified perspective where you haven't spoken to them, but perhaps they've filled out a form?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: Do they put in their the total amount of their pension they've currently got, their age, their location?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: What am I going to expect at the other end?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is it completely cold or is it something that I can get my teeth stuck into?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it is what I mean.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, the consumer has sought out our service in some way.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they come online, they proactively um, you know, search under a keyword.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it might be it might be uh you know, financial advice in in Leeds, for example, or Bristol, um, or it might be pension advice or something more specific, but ultimately they'll come into our site and they'll come through.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is where we engage them, try to give give them some messages, talk to them a little bit about financial advice and benefits.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, what they will do is choose to place an inquiry or not.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if they place an inquiry, what they'll do is they'll provide some information.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, all their contact details, um, including their address, postcode, what they're interested in, and just any other additional information that they feel is appropriate at that point.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that information then is kind of packaged up.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now what we how we work in the background is you know, we work with hundreds of financial advisors, I said, different types of advisors um operating different models, and our distribution systems basically will work out where that consumer should go.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is where the tech comes in, and this is where, as a business, um, certainly looking at the future, um, really, really wanting to start to make um make it more sophisticated and use technology to help us better match.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the matching at the moment is is about if they're looking for a financial advisor and they're based in Leeds or Bristol, then we'll certainly match them to a local financial advisor or or a financial advisory firm that kind of meets their criteria.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I'd like to do moving forwards is start to kind of get a little bit more granular with that through our through our consumer brands by understanding a little bit more.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do get the opportunity, Sam, to speak to a large percentage.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's about 25% of all consumers that come through our sites, we will speak to uh in the first instance, and that is increasing all the time.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of our goals to increase that to around about 80% by the end of next year.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where the kind of engagement and understanding comes in, um, and we'll be better placed then to um put them in touch with you know more relevant services.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: Historically, I can't remember the name of the I think it's like vouched for you've got haven't you, and there's some other ones out there.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, and perhaps I'm getting this wrong, so don't hold me to this, but there was like a bidding system where like advisors almost bid the leads.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that to me sounds a bit shit.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but also as well, it kind of creates this sense of urgency, doesn't it, amongst planners?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, and also a scarcity, I kind of get that.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it feels wrong.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh do you do you do that at all?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it do you how do you establish who the right financial planner is to get that lead, for example?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're quite selective on on who we work with, and I'm I'm not sort of saying that in any arrogant way, you know, over the years we've learned that lead generation doesn't work for everybody.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about that and why.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've learned, you know, we've learned to kind of do certain checks.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think as I said, trust is a big issue.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: So giving confidence to consumers is is is is a big thing for us.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we talk on our sites quite a bit about kind of betting advisors, and obviously we only introduce to regulated firms anyway, so that's kind of big point, but yeah, anything we can do above and beyond that to actually do our due diligence and do our checks to make sure the firms are qualified in the right way and they talk the right kind of advice and so on.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, yeah, we do we are selective in that respect.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't feel that it will work for an advisor, we'll have that conversation, you know.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is kind of goes back to the different services that we offer as well.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we do get some advisors that are absolutely um hell-bent on working the leads themselves, and we just don't believe it will work for them because they don't have the time.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't mind the same now.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately, you know, we've got um a number of advisors start being released, you know, um what we call a network uh without being confused in language.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, as I say, we've got kind of hundreds of advisory firms, individual advisors kind of on this network that are looking to take leads in certain areas of the country.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: So again, if we get a match, then the consumer will be kind of sent there.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: If we speak to a consumer, then you know, potentially that kind of is a more qualified introduction and we might charge more for that, as I as I said earlier.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: But that really gives us an opportunity to um, I mean, I love this, you know, just just gives us that kind of better insight into the consumer, um, it's a better experience for them, and and it really allows us to kind of think about who we can replace them with.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is kind of where we're going, and we're going to be doing more and more of that as the months progress.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: Lead tech are positioned really well out there to understand the dare I say buying habits or triggers of the consumers that are out there in the UK.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now there is The great transition of wealth that's happening over the next decade.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's a huge amount of money's being transferred down family to family.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a growing advice gap.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're positioned well as a technology company in a firm that establishes themselves as driving leads through on an online basis.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing a trend, an upward trend, in the amount of consumers that are seeking financial planning or advice of some sort or buying there or engaging with financial management online?
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for saying that, Sam.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, yes, we are.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we were talking earlier about, you know, certainly over the next kind of 12 to 18 months, we're investing uh heavily in some new brands.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're trying to do there is um just trying to um make that user experience taken to another level and using technology to really understand.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you're um a female, you're based in a small suburban town with a more London city, um, you're looking for, you know, you've recently been divorced, you're looking for a specialist advisor, you know, um around the subject, just as an example, then I'd really like us to be able to kind of really easily provide a great experience for the end user to be able to come on, just just tap away and just say, look, this is what I'm looking for, and to be able to either speak to somebody here or or just get matched really quickly in a really neat way to an advisor that can help them and just just kind of ticks their boxes.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where I think kind of where at, even though I think we're ahead of the game, and certainly a lot of lead generation companies out there, there's still that kind of 101 lead generation kind of typical model that I explained earlier, where it's not as consumer focused.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think uh as far as lead tech concerned, really investing in these brands and and starting to kind of be a voice around within the industry because you know, as I say, we've we've we've gone from lead generation company over the years now to you know it's much bigger than lead generation, you know.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're really passionate that financial advice is very valuable for the average person, and everyone should have access to good quality advice.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we see our role and take it really seriously, that you know, um that we can we can help people in a very kind of I guess secure uh and trusted way, we can help people easily find the perfect advisor for them.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I like the way you understand that and the collection of data, the collection of consumer habits and and and consumer questions they're asking in Google, and that you're then, by the sounds of it, creating um almost micro niches within financial planning.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the major ones is females, isn't it?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: The transition of wealth from male to female is going to be huge, and it's gonna be like way more female millionaires than ever.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um but also I like what comes up a bit actually, and I've spoken to a few financial planners from the LGBTQ plus community, and that there's a total lack of um any kind of uh financial planning firms or um even like there's a few out there that do it, but I mean that's a huge area.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and I've had some um, you know, I've had a gay chap on the podcast, and he said, look, there is vast, it is vastly different.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that the the a chap who's gay, a couple who's gay is is so different from a male and female, even to like how the systems are set up, you know, it's Mr.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: and Mrs.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: all the time on the systems, but when they go through the process of getting financial planning and their lifestyle is completely different, you know, it's not they don't typically get kids, you know, have kids and stuff like that.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_02: They do tend to have more disposable income.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think understanding the young consumer more, like you're doing, investing that energy and time into it, I think it's a such a valuable thing.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it's like if you go back to being a financial planner and thinking, right, I need to delve into consume, understand the consumers, it's huge, it's big data, isn't it?
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a science to it.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: You've you've you know you've alluded to that.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: There is data scientists out there that are digging and understanding this information.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, it's great.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're well positioned to be this kind of leader within that, within that data.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, it takes that weight, I think.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when an advisor understands the detail that you guys go into, it should really take the weight off of their shoulders a little bit.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's trust in you that you're doing what you're doing.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And look, if I'm going to put a budget in place, which could be a thousand pounds a month or two thousand pounds a month, dependent upon your need and your ability to be able to service those clients, then it's actually quite a great place to chuck your money instead of just chucking it into a Facebook advert and trying to do it yourself with some guy on Fiverr or freelancer or something like that, isn't it?
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, totally agree, Sam.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, you know, data is huge.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a difference between, you know, uh LeadTech and some of the companies out there uh that we kind of touched on before.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so much opportunity around data, you know, it's that consumer insight that we touched on there.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a big focus for us.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: But but sharing data as well.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've been sharing data now for about three years, we're massively ahead of the curve with it, you know, in terms of insight.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that managing expectations pieces again, you know.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when advisors come to us and go, well, how does it all work?
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: We can share that insight.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we go, well, this is how it works.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is typically what happens, but manage your expectations around that based on their circumstances and you know, um, you know, what what what they're doing and how their business is set up and their processes and their resources, etc.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So data's huge for us, it it really is.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just um one thing I think people always would like to hear is almost uh a kind of testimonial, if you like, or have you got an example at all where you have helped uh a financial planner grow their business or you know, getting more business?
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got anything like that you can share with us today?
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I can I can definitely share some some insights.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've got to be careful not to kind of name names here, but um, as as I said, you know, I think it's important to kind of say that you know, we we kind of do generally deal with um a whole um diverse range of planners and and advisors, all the way up from you know, right at the start of a career, just come out fresh out of an academy somewhere, all the way up to kind of retiring advisors um and small, medium, and very large firms.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So to kind of give some examples there, you know, I personally love to hear about when we're working with a new advisor, it's just just just great because as I sort of said earlier, you know, they're fresh into it, that they need new clients more than ever.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have those existing support kind of systems to allow them to get referrals.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they're quite reliant on something like this.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have the cash to inject and invest into their own activities because we said earlier, it can be quite expensive.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they're kind of a little bit reliant, and and this is where I love the fact they've come to us and not somebody else, because I think, right, okay, we can talk them through how this can work and really understand them.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've I've you know, there's loads of examples where you know, um, we've got advisors that we work with for years, and we've been working with them from that point in time where you know the first run of the ladder.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's one company uh up in the north of England, there's three advisors, um, they're quite small in terms of the number of advisors, they've got quite a lot of support staff, um, but they're quite lean.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they've got some great processes.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: They now handle all the leads themselves, but initially we we we did all that for them.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess there was an educational piece along the way.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think since 2014, just to try and give you some numbers, um, you know, they've added 80 million in terms of assets under their management.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the majority of that has been down to LeeTech.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they tell us so um, you know, a great success drawing, there are lots of them.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we deal with some of the country's largest wealth management firms, you know.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one company, you know, they've got hundreds of financial planners and investment managers.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've been working with them now for around 15 years.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they're 24 billion kind of asset under management companies.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they're a huge company, but we're integral, we're an integral partner to their business because you know, we don't just generate them leads, they don't just see us a lead generator.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, sort of going back to that framework that that we we have created, um, you know, we're an intrinsic part of their business and and they do their own stuff.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: They use a number of lead generation companies, but by far we are their biggest, my big biggest partner.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's just a testament to kind of how how we work and the results that we can get.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Fabulous, Nigel.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just talk a little bit about what the next sort of year might look like for you guys then.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So lead tech, you know, you're doing very well.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I read in the I read in an article again that you're you know you're looking to grow your business, you're looking to grow the numbers.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously a firm that's stable, a firm that's making money, you know, you are forward-thinking in the the tech world, you know, you insights is a massive thing for you.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_02: So just give us an overview.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_02: What does the future look like for you guys at the moment, Nigel?
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, absolutely.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're looking to grow the headcount within the next 12 months to 60.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that's you know, nearly a 20% increase there.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, raising the standard of lead generation is hugely important to us, Sam, as I've said before.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the FCA kind of um strategy um was a part of that, um, and trying to be a little bit more transparent and accountable as a business.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but really kind of now developing our brands um and developing our prop consumer propositions um is a key focus area over the next 12 months.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that is to do more of the things that we've talked about, provide better experiences.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we're recently kind of rolling out um a strategy in the business which is more consumer focused.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really important to get people to engage and buy into, you know, why do we why do we exist?
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we doing what we do?
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of change, made some changes there, which are a little bit more, a bit clearer, um a bit more kind of focused around the consumer, uh, in the hope that that will kind of fuel everybody's excitement around and get everybody on the same page.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um lots of great things happening.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's gonna be some key appointments to allow us to kind of go to the next level in terms of um adopting technology.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I say, we're a tech business in financial services, and we want to keep investing in technology, and uh, there is a substantial investment that's going into everything we do, basically, from the from the team to the to the kind of new new brands that we want to build and and create.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's going to take a lot of investment.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very much uh a year for investment change and and just building some foundations for future growth.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So all things going forward, it sounds very, very positive.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love what I love about this the most, if I'm if I'm honest with you, Nigel, um, apart from helping firms grow and hearing stories where you're helping firms get to 80 million under management.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: What I loved about what you touched on as well was the new advisor, because there's going to be so many new advisors coming into this profession and they are going to struggle to win clients, especially as you know, training and development might not be there as much.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they're coming in with this belief that there's a lack of financial advisors, therefore they're going to make loads of money.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_02: But as we all know, it's really hard to generate clients.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's difficult unless you've got an extreme network.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've got a great network, is you've still got to learn how to do it, right?
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_02: So these guys coming through and establishing brand new clients, it's going to be hard.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a lovely position to be in as a business and a great way to um to help the profession grow with these guys coming through.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And also any firm that's then considering setting up an academy or wanting to hire new people from different professions can turn around and say, look, we've got a strategy.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_02: We've fine, we've put into our finances of our the growth of our business.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: We've said that we're going to put 10,000 pounds aside for lead generation.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really on point and just shows you know what you're talking about.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_02: But also, I just love the big data side of it.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you understanding the end consumer and what they're doing, how they're doing it, and you're tweaking your sites and your approach, your SEO and all that type of thing to be really connected to that end consumer.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're not just some, you know, uh suit in the back room who's just chucking a few quid and hoping for the best.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_02: You actually are invested heavily in understanding that end consumer and getting yourself authorized by the FCA, again, is that trust, that's alignment to the profession.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what we require within the profession.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what financial advisors require.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of what you're doing that I absolutely love.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact you're growing anyway means it's working well.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_02: But again, icing on the cake, proof is in the pudding.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're spending 400 up to 400,000 pounds a month on leads across the whole business, you know, on lead generation across the whole business.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's evidence enough that you're obviously making money and it's working, therefore that's going to trickle down to the financial advisor.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there'sn't a great deal there that makes me think, because I've spoken to loads of lead generators, you know, loads.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it sometimes it can feel like a real blackgy kind of market.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a little bit like recruitment.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you guys don't sound like blaggers, you know.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the reports that you're going to create off the back of that data.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it opens you up to just being an expert, doesn't it?
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Really understanding what the market wants, and especially from a financial planning perspective.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all they want to know is what's going on.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where should I put my money?
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Where should I put my energy?
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's um, it's really great.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I really appreciate you coming here today and sharing that and and and giving our listeners an insight into really what a lead company does and a good lead company does.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm sure you know that you've we talked a little bit about just prior to the podcast, we can put some kind of download together or maybe some further information, some links that we can have to the show notes where we'll take um our listeners to to find out a little bit more and hopefully connect yourself, Nigel, or your business.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been a pleasure being on your show and thank you for inviting me, so no worries.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing, Nigel.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_02: All the best, mate.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.