Latest / The Speak Life Podcast / Kristi Mair on the Meaning Crisis || Speak Life Vision Evening || SLP433

Transcript

Kristi Mair on the Meaning Crisis || Speak Life Vision Evening || SLP433 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to episode 433 of the Speak Life Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're delighted to have you with us.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's that moment again in the week when you go to your podcasts on your device of choice and you see a big stack of things appearing, and among them is a little yellow square that says Speak Life Podcast on it.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now that uh list, that long uh stack of unlistened to podcasts is constantly growing on my device.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the the the stack of shame, I I call it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Although they're all optional, aren't they?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we're delighted that you've chosen to listen to the Speak Life Podcast out of all the podcasts you could be listening to.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll be pleased that uh this week is another shorter episode.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh might give you an opportunity to maybe catch up on some older ones that you've missed and you'd like to listen to.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: But this is really an extract from our vision evening.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: You might remember we were plugging the vision evening and it happened, and it was wonderful to have so many people with us to think through the meaning crisis, to think through the future of Speak Life, and you kind of had to be there to take in the full atmosphere.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the good news is if you did miss it, there are more coming.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the next one will be in January, 16th of January.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: So a bit of a way off, but if you want to get that in the calendar, you can go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash vision.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it will always be the same link.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you can sign up there.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we're calling it Blue Sky Monday, not Blue Monday, Blue Sky Monday, because we're going to turn those Monday blues into a time of vision and hope and optimism.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, for those of you who did miss the vision evening, the one that happened last week, we are releasing a segment of it in this episode of the podcast, the conversation that Glenn Scrivener and Nate Morganlock had with Christy Mare.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So Christy Mare works at Oak Hill College, and she's a name who has come up on a number of our podcasts and YouTube videos because she has so many great insights uh when speaking into the meaning crisis.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we hope you find this conversation helpful, and I will catch you at the end.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Christy, where are you broadcasting in from?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm zooming in from um my apartment in not so sunny northern London.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you do in North London for those who haven't met you before?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, I'm based at a theological college here, so I kind of do a little bit of teaching and philosophy and evangelism and stuff.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm in the last year, hopefully the last year of my doctoral studies alongside that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, they kindly released me to, you know, do some little bit, no, just a fraction of what you're doing, of you know, sharing Jesus on campuses and um training events and stuff like that.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get on with the conversation about the meaning crisis, because the last time, in fact, it wasn't the last time I saw you, because I saw you at an evangelism conference uh about C.S.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Lewis and evangelism at all souls, that was fascinating.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: We might talk about that in a second.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: The time before that I saw you was a little over a month ago.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: We were at Oak Hill Theological College in North London, and we were talking about church and the meaning crisis, because we had an event with you and Tom Holland and Paul Vanderclay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Paul Vanderclay is an interesting YouTuber, a Christian pastor in California, and he speaks about the meaning crisis as this moment in which if everything is mechanics, then who am I anymore?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if there's no God, if I'm just a biological survival machine, then here I am.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just matter in motion.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And no wonder people are struggling to figure out what they're doing on planet Earth.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have a story that kind of orients them.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so we might have the latest iPhone, but we have a meaning crisis.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I think that phrase, the meaning crisis, was new to you as a way of like um describing the age that we're in.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's something that you think about quite a lot, isn't it, Christy?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: The meaning crisis.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, do I, Glenn.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a such a huge kind of topic, really, particularly now as well.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're starting to see more of the cost of the the lack of meaning in in our lives and in society as a whole.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that whole thing, you know, like nature just abores a vacuum, doesn't it?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the minute, the minute you kind of take out things like meaning and purpose and significance and value, everything else just kind of is shoved in to try and um fill that space in some way.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I think what we're living in in right now is is both a challenge, but it it's also a moment of great opportunity, I think, for us.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um should I keep rambling?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can keep it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what are what are the opportunities?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think it's it's very common for us to just think, oh dear, we've lost everybody.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: They've all become atheists and they're all just kind of floating off into the ether and and we've lost them forever.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um are you are you seeing are you seeing ways that we can grasp this as an opportunity to speak into the moment?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, there are so many ways in which we can do this.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think one of the things that we see, don't we, is that when we when we remove meaning and significance and purpose from our lives and from the public kind of theater, um, what we're left with is almost this creeping sense of suspicion, don't we, around truth claims, around any kind of truth claim.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like why would I, why would I want this if what this has led to is just this sense of just alienation and it's just also it's let me down, you know, who can I trust?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it's also quite a personal thing as well as uh, as well as if you want to put it, you know, with a big T truth thing, it's a it's a personal thing too.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think into that, into that kind of weariness and apathy and pain comes a real opportunity for us as those who who follow Jesus to show others that knowing him and being known by him isn't about you know assenting to you know a list of things that we believe to be true about um life, the universe, and everything.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: We get that, but we we kind of are able to show them that truth is about so much more than that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's being known by truth himself, who walks into our lives and says, I am the way, the truth and the life.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you come to me, you you you you know the father, I'm the only way.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in that way, I think we're able to kind of demonstrate something that that is lacking, not only in this kind of cultural moment, but I think something that we've seen since uh since Adam and Eve have walked away from the very, very start.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you said something really interesting in the the evening at Oak Hill.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You said that coming to know the truth is making friends with reality, which is just a brilliant phrase, making friends with reality.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you say later, uh and I think you're um quoting Esther Meeks at that point, that that reality is person-like, and I guess you know, ultimate truth is personal.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how would you how would you like introduce perhaps the non-Christian friends to that idea that actually what they're looking for is not truth in the abstract, but that actually they're they're searching after truth is a quite personal thing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: They want they need to make friends with reality.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: How how would you point someone to the fact that reality is person-like and and Christ is the heart of it?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is where clues come into it, um, don't they?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there are two ways we can think about clues.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, clues are usually things that the purpose um of the clue exists beyond itself.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: The clue is pointing to something else.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know, if you think about Sherlock Holmes and, you know, the the times when you know he walks onto a crime scene and he sees um, oh, there's a body on the floor, there's um um, there's a huge rock beside the body, the clock is kind of struck 12, um, there's a there's a ring on the floor, um, and there's some paper over here.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you he's kind of left to work out what does all this mean?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Mean.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do I work out the meaning of this scene?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, he looks at these different clues, and you know, there comes a point where you know he sees that the ring, you know, that's just incidental, it doesn't matter.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a moment at which he probably did kind of think about um trying to find the owner of the ring and why it was there and who it was.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the end of it, as he's picked up all these different clues, he works out that the way in which they cohere is thinking that, well, you know, the boulder probably hit this guy and maybe it smashed the clock on the way down, and that's why it's stuck at you know, 12, which was the time of you know this person's death.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in a similar way, um, this is how I think we can look at um pointing others to to Jesus and seeing that the things that exist in creation in reality point to something else, they have a purpose outside of themselves as well as within themselves.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think in that way they have um there's a dual purpose to them.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: They they both lead and they draw.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they lead in the sense that it's a map.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: They give us a bit of a map to think, okay, well, I see beauty in creation.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see love.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I really, you know, the amount of my friends who number of my friends who at the birth of their first child just suddenly thought, whoa, I'm part of something so much bigger.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this life just seems to be so, so meaningful.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I overcome with this emotion?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we think about love and we think about art and music and all these different things, and they're leading us, they're pointing somewhere else, but they're also intentionally there to draw us to.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, in that sense, it's not only a map, it's also a love song in that way, but it's that that tune of a song, you know, of a distant land that we haven't yet heard.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when you hear it, it's like somebody's calling your name, like calling you home.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's how I think that's a great way in which we can introduce Jesus as the clue, the one who is the map and the one who is love himself, who is both leading and drawing us to him.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some of the clues.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've got sort of love, beauty, um, this sense of meaning.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um what how how would you do that in in like conversation?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what are you doing with your friends?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: What what kind of what kind of things are you saying to your friends that lead you into that kind of rich area of conversation that can talk about these clues?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the things that takes time, doesn't it?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like there isn't a quick kind of answer to that in some ways, because you really have to walk a little bit in somebody else's shoes to know what makes them smile and what makes them cry.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the questions that um I sometimes ask my friends is, you know, what's keeping you awake at night at the moment?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um what what is it?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that often I think kind of is an opportunity for them to share either that, you know, that that love, whatever it is that they're just thinking about all the time, um that they're searching for or longing for, or and also it's an opportunity to expose that deep sense of sadness, like what are they worrying about?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um what is it that's keeping them literally awake at night for fear or for anxiety or for worry?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do something similar with we've mentioned 321 and yeah, 321 I guess has four movements because it's Jesus and then his view of God and the world and you.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of gives me four ways in of of having these richer conversations.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And with the Jesus, I start thinking about, you know, what makes what gets you thinking?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, have you ever had a religious experience?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Would you, you know, would you point to any aspects in your life like when you hold your firstborn child or something like that?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what gets you thinking?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then what gets you up, which is like what gets you up in the morning, um, what do you live for?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: What gets you down is the the the sort of the world part of things where we look at this atom-like world, we experience this atom-like flesh, and it gets us down, what gets you down, and then what gets you through that that sort of final question, you know, how how do you get through the tough times in life?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess at that point, people are really talking about their ultimate trust at that stage, I I guess you'd say.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those questions are so, so good.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: They do exactly that, don't they?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: They do point to what is it that we're living for and what is it that we're we're we're worried might kill us in some ways.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you've written this book, More Truth.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what what do what do you hope people get out of more truth?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think Yeah, okay.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it has quite um it it's I think it's applicable for everyone, but it also has quite a a kind of like a narrow vision for it, which is to kind of help people who who were kind of um who kind of came to Jesus, came to the church, and after a while just felt like, you know what, the world just looks so much more beautiful to me right now.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly in light of these huge questions like truth, how do I know what is true?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, even just reading the papers today, or you know, as you're looking on um Twitter or whatever, you know, you get your news, you see all sorts of things that are just falling out um in the public kind of political square.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you're left thinking, gosh, are there any good leaders left?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how on earth am I going to think about this huge question?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is what is truth?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think there was a time and and I think that it's still there when there are quite a few people who are just leaving the church thinking, okay, well, obviously I don't have answers here.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I tried Jesus for a bit, you know, it kind of felt good for a while, but then it just he just didn't work for me anymore.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm walking away.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that book in particular is for people like that who are thinking, well, I'd love to think more about how do I know?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do I know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, but I don't have time to read like a huge, like stonking book on it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's meant to be like a short, sharp thing um to help people think about um like a history of truth, and then think about how is it that what does Jesus mean when he says, I am the way, the truth, and the life?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what hope does that give us?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's addressing some of those questions about truth and trust and um where does suspicion come from and how does that fuel kind of our our dissatisfaction?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and what does it look like for Jesus to again just to walk into our hearts and say, No, come follow me, you know, all those who are weary and heavy laden, I will give you rest, and particularly this question.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, and it and it does point people to the person who is truth as well, which is great.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So uh thank you so much for writing it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Christy, how can people keep up with your work online?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so kind.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have I actually have absolutely no idea how you can do that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have any questions.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have a podcast, don't you, as well?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a there's a joint podcast um with my friend Andy Andy Bannister of Sola.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you'd like to tune into that, um please do.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to receive my personal prayer letter, it's mainly from my friends, but it's um an opportunity just to hear what I'm up to and which missions I'm speaking at and stuff like that, and what's on my heart if you'd love to pray.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there we go.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed that conversation and found it helpful.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they mentioned the Oak Hill events, so just a reminder that you can access those as podcasts, and on our YouTube channel, youtube.com forward slash speaklifemedia.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So there are two uh long form videos uh which are also available as podcasts.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: One is a conversation with Glenn Christie and Paul Van Der Klee, another is a conversation with Glenn Tom Holland and Paul Van Der Klee.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd recommend checking out both of those.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And if you'd like to hear even more from Christy Mayer, you can check out the reset interview that we did with her.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, reset was a series uh of interviews going back to the beginning, going back to Genesis, uh, to see how that ancient text speaks into the meaning crisis.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that included guests such as Douglas Murray, Tom Holland, Paul Vanderclay, Jonathan Peugeot, uh Rachel Gilson, uh, Christy Mare, and many, many others.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, I really do recommend that episode with Christy Mare.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that's all from me.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: We will be back soon with more content, and we will see you then.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: God bless.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Goodbye.