Latest / The Brave Becoming / Stop Calling Trauma a Lack of Faith

Transcript

Stop Calling Trauma a Lack of Faith · The Brave Becoming

• Tiana: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Brave Becoming where we focus on grace for the process and also courage for the journey. I am your host, Tiana, and I'm also here with my host, Shaniqua, and we have a very special guest with us today. Shaniqua Rischer: Yes, yes, we do. I'm looking so forward to it. so today's message is stop calling trauma a lack of faith. Now that's the title. But we're gonna get into Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Okay. Shaniqua Rischer: a lot of the nitty gritty of what that actually means and unpacking that. because as we know, you know, so often in the church, we really haven't had we haven't looked at therapy and counseling from a holistic perspective. Approach, but we're hoping that this conversation will go into that. But before I do all of that, I do want to introduce our amazing and phenomenal guest, Dr. Malaysia Harrel. And I'm going to read her bio. and then we're going to jump right into our initial question. So Her Excellency Malaysia Harrell is a PhD, she has a doctorate. She has a license, and she is a licensed independent clinical social worker, a licensed clinical social worker certified. She is a board-certified diplomat in clinical social work. And she is a Ward of Life Ministries International United Nations Peace Ambassador. Again, board-certified psychotherapist, spiritual transformation coach, a veteran, award-winning entrepreneur, a TEDx and keynote speaker, and an author. As the founder and CEO of Blissful Life Consulting, she empowers high achieving professionals to find alignment, resilience, and personal growth through transformative coaching and mental health services. Yay, thank you so much for joining us. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Thank you, ladies, for having me. This is such an amazing opportunity and I really love your message and your theme and what you're doing for our nation because it's so important right now. Tiana: Thank you. Shaniqua Rischer: that's a that's a it it is. I love how you said it's so important right now. So thank you so much, Doctor Malaysia. Thank you very much. Tiana: I'm so grateful that you're here and so happy that you're here. So on our show, we have a signature question that we start off each episode with. So that question Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Okay. Tiana: is, when did you first know God was real for yourself? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: this is such a good question. I think for me, understanding the my understanding of God became deeply personal during moments when I realized that I couldn't control everything through achievement, such as all the things that you you all talked about in my bio today. And I grew up knowing about God. I went to church, I grew up Seventh day Adventist, but of course. Each family member was something different. So I was exposed to so many different religions Pentecostal, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, depending on who was watching me or whose home I was at. And I grew up learning so many different things about God and about you know how to serve and the meaning of religion and different things like that. And in 2020, There came a point in my life when I had to move from, you know, what I knew that faith was and what I had versus what I had experienced in my life. And it was basically when I had a near-death experience. And you think because you've been exposed to co God, you've been exposed to all these different religions, because you have served Jesus and you know learned about the principles. That you know God. And I think it's not till when you meet that point where you have to basically hone into the ultimate level of surrender when it's like, I don't know if I'm gonna be here, I don't know if I'm gonna live. and in 2020, that's when it came for me, is when I had that near death experience and not knowing if I was gonna live. And it was during those darkest moments when I remember saying, God, if you would have me, if you, if you still want me to be here and to serve, I don't want to continue to live my life the way that I've been living it. I want to surrender to your will. And if you have a purpose for me, I'm willing to follow that purpose. And that ultimate surrender really changed my life and it changed my relationship with God and how I knew God. Shaniqua Rischer: I there's so much to unpack right there. There's so much Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Ever Shaniqua Rischer: to unpack. I'm gonna take a I'm gonna ask a two-point two part question if you don't matter, if you don't mind. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Okay. Okay. Shaniqua Rischer: so the two part question is you've described your near death experience and how that really recatalyzed your your walk. with God and where you are, even from a ministry standpoint, but from a professional standpoint as well. And here's a two part question. Number one, Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Right. Shaniqua Rischer: I do want you to tell us a little bit more about your profession, what you do for a living. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: but from there, then how did it impact your profession and how did that change your profession? So I'm kind of joining those two things together. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, so things, so in my profession, that's a very good question because I've been a psychotherapist for over 30 years. I know it doesn't look like it, but over thank you. Shaniqua Rischer: It does not. It does not crack. Black does not crack. Tiana: At all. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: For over 30 years. And so in my mind, you know, and we're gonna get into trauma and all that stuff. I thought I was, you know, the expert. Right? The person who knew everything and how to help everyone else. Not realizing that how my perf because of my experience during childhood, I became a psychotherapist. I wanted to understand the human behavior, why people did what they do, especially when they're committing crimes and crimes against children, right? And How that re how that kind of shifted from me doing my work, you know, when you have to be in a position to be in the patient seat and inpatient mode, it gave me a different level of empathy. Because I thought, you know, I've been doing this, I could help people, I know how to do this. But until you've actually, I mean, I went through some things, don't get me wrong, but until you go through something that really catapult you into doing what your true calling is, I don't think you really understand and have a understanding until you're basically in that seat yourself. So Shaniqua Rischer: So so just a just to clarify a little bit more then, so then if you were meeting someone for the first time today as Dr. Malaysia been through having experienced what you've experienced, what would you how would you describe what you do to someone? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So I would basically describe that I help people come home to themselves. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And I'm a board, as you said, I'm a board certified psychotherapist, veteran, educator, all those things. But underneath all of those titles, my work is really about helping people understand that they are more than what happened to them. Because some people really get hung up on. You know, the guilt, the shame, the the world's view of them, right? Based on what has happened. And I work at the intersection of mental health, trauma, wellness, resiliency, spirituality, and purpose. And I think spirituality is something that kind of has been introduced. After my experience and whether I'm sitting across from someone in a clinical setting, teaching students as an adjunct professor, speaking on stages, or working in communities, I'm ultimately asking the same question. And that question is how do we move from simply surviving our lives to actually experiencing them? Shaniqua Rischer: very good. Tiana: I love that. I love that. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: you mentioned shame, shame. Where do you think that came from, especially in the black community? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Well, I think it goes back a very long time, right? And our ancestors, you know, the people who have shaped our culture, shaped our humanity, and right, it's also in our DNA. They've experienced atrocities that we could never even, you know, probably even understand in a million years or relate to. And We have built this system where I believe, especially in my own experience, that we have to go out there and we don't, we have to wear this mask. What what what what is the biggest thing that is said in our homes, homes of people of color? What goes on in this house? What? Shaniqua Rischer: Stays in this house. Tiana: two stays in this house. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Stays in this house. So it doesn't matter if I got beat to a pulp. When I get outside, I have to be on. When someone at work tries to belittle you, make you feel like you're not worthy to be at this seat, because we've been in high-level positions, right? And so that the in those experiences, we are still human. So we may look like, hey, I'm a beast. You can't say I'm Condoleezza Rice. You can't say nothing to me. You know what that lady went through after 9-11. You know what I mean? Come on now. So and and President Obama and everything that has happened, like you have to come out like this. You what? Right? Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And so we're still human beings. And inside, we may be carrying that high level of shame. And that, and so it's hard for us to be able to be authentic, to show who we really are and to express our emotions in the way they need to be expressed. Especially now we have so many things going on in our communities, right? And then it's like, wait a minute, don't tip over the boat. Don't say anything about it. Don't get too political, right? And so Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: that shame, no matter what you say, still continues to have some sort of overcast over our society, over what we do and over what we stand for. Shaniqua Rischer: you know what you what you just described is is is especially you know how we all know this is what don't you know what's in our home is far is is here. You Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: know, that goes within the black community, especially the black church community. It it speaks to our conditioning and it speaks to our history. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: you've said that trauma is not a spiritual report card, but that but as you just pointed out, so many of us struggle with. Showing that sadness could be a sign of weakness, it can be a sign of a weak faith, all of the Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes, yes. Shaniqua Rischer: and even beyond sadness, just any emotion that doesn't present us as resilient or perfect, Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: or this is just you know, I keep going, it's kind Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: of outside of the scope of of our faith. And so, how do you look at that when when reconciling that sometimes we do look at spiritual? trauma as a spiritual report card and even tell us a little bit more about what that means. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Well, this this is such a good question because I remember I heard a preacher, one of I don't know if it was my pastor or someone else say you you can have faith, but you still need therapy too. You need Jesus and Shaniqua Rischer: Please, yes. Say that again for everybody. Tiana: Amen. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: you need counseling. And so because we've sometimes confuse faith with the absence of struggle. I think that's so important for us to understand. And we've created this idea that if I really trust God, if I truly trust God, that I shouldn't be anxious. If I really believe everything that I'm reading in that Bible, I shouldn't be depressed. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: If I really have faith, unwavering faith, faith of a mustard seed. I shouldn't be grieving. But scripture itself doesn't support that simplistic understanding. Jesus wept, right? David cried out. Job questioned. And Elijah became exhausted and overwhelmed. And so pain doesn't necessarily disqualify us from faith, but sometimes when we're hurting, We're hurting because we are human, right? We are human. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And I think I've said that like several. That's like a theme, you know, for this talk today. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: I always look for what themes are coming out. And I believe that two things can be true at the same time. Jesus, God is faithful, and I'm hurting. And God is good all the time. And I don't have to un Shaniqua Rischer: All the time, God is good. That call and respond. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. So God is good, and I don't have to understand what is happening right now. And so I can believe in God's presence and still need support, still need therapy, still need resources that are available, right? And I can pray. And still need medication. And that's been a big thing too, right? A lot of people, when we talk about shame, they do not want to get on medication. And one thing that I would say is for mental health, just like if you experience any other, it's a medical condition. And I don't, I know it says mental health, but is it is a medical condition. So if you need medication for any other diagnosis. Right? Diabetes, whatever it is, you can need medication for depression. It's the same thing. Right? Different diagnoses. And so I can have faith and still have a nervous system that has been profoundly affected by trauma. And so those things are not necessarily contradictions. And I think we do a tremendous harm to ourselves when we make people feel like their pain is evidence that they've failed God or that they don't believe or that they're not having faith. Tiana: You mentioned Job. and we know that in the Bible, his friends they they had what we say a tidy theology, right? They said that just because you're suffering, you know, you did something wrong. As Job is like, no, I didn't do anything wrong, I've just been faithful. And, you know, God, when he finally spoke, you know, he said, Job, your friends are wrong. That that's not the God who I am. So, what Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: does that tell us about how God views the report? court card approach when it comes to faith. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So, okay, this is very, a very good question. I believe that it tells us that we have to be very careful when we try to explain someone else's suffering, right? Shaniqua Rischer: Mm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: How do I have the ability to tell you what or or judge you on anything that you've done? And Job's friends essentially looked at his pain. and tried to construct a theology, you know, explaining it, right? But God ultimately challenged their understanding. And that is very profound because sometimes our desire to explain someone else's suffering is actually more about making ourselves feel comfortable, right? Than helping the other person who's suffering. When we judge others, we're judging ourselves, right? When we're making these assumptions about other people and how they're living their lives or our perception of them, that's really coming from our own selves. And we want to know. What did they do? Why did this happen? What lessons are they supposed to learn? But sometimes the most important response isn't an explanation. It's presence. It's the questioning. It's being curious. Because me as a human being, I may not have the ability to tell you what I think that God is trying to tell you. And I think that people should really continuing to continue to hone in on what God is telling them. And that's what I had to do ultimately when I had to surrender to his will. Shaniqua Rischer: You know, I think that's a really good, almost a segue because, you know, Job's friends gave judgment and his pronouncement on Job's life, but Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: Job also had a moment of of of self-reflection for himself. And we can also have self-reflection and sometime internally be like, well then why is this happening to me? What why Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: why is this my life? What did I do wrong? Am I such this where God where this is happening? And so, in the context, in the lens of your own personal experience, and when you when you may have asked yourself similar questions or even different questions, what what did you learn through your Job experience? Because in a in effect, you know, because I've I've dealt with sickness and And have had my own journey. And so many times in effect, I'm like, I feel like I'm going through a Job experience. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: And in and health can be that. So with your own story and your own Job experience, tell us a little bit about that. What did you learn? What what was your your journey like with God? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. my experience, you know, I as I mentioned in 2020, I had a near-death experience after I returned home from deployment. And, you know, I was I knew I was transitioning. And for anyone who's ever been on the brink of death, they can probably empathize with what I'm talking about now. And when those things happened, I became critically ill with sepsis. I was hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center. but there were other challenges that came about during that time. And one of them was they didn't believe me, right? They tell you to go to the hospital, they tell you to ask for help when you need help. And for people of color, sometimes things, our experiences are just a little different. And so Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: after day four of being hospitalized, being on the highest level of meds, they said, they came in the room and said, Captain Harrell, we can't find anything. We're sending you home today. And I thought to myself, and by the way, we're sending in a psychiatrist to evaluate you because you just came home from deployment. Now imagine. I've been doing therapy for at that time well over 20 years. Am I imagining this pain? You know what I mean? Like the they were, I was on the highest level of pain meds and it didn't work. Like, be imagine being in extreme pain. You're like, Lord, take me now. Like, I'm not dealing with this. And so I there were so many questions that I had with God. And and ultimately, You know, it was his will. If it's my time to go, I had accomplished so many great things, worked on the highest levels of government, you know, had high-level positions, highly decorated. I did all of those things. I had nothing else to prove. And so in those, I after I was in the hospital for over two months, had to get out, I had to Go to therapy, you know, like physic, you know, go into a therapy place and learn how to walk again. I had nine surgeries, I got diagnosed with other illnesses, almost like cancer, sarcadosis. I was on oral chemo, 254 pounds, Bell's palsy. So imagine being able being up here, right? For what you think is up here. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And then being then going from that to not even being able to take care of yourself, not even being able to get dressed. I had a lot of questions for God at that time. because i i could i had been faithful i was serving my country i was going to church i was giving i give to charities i've started my own foundation you know giving mental providing mental health and wellness services to veteran women like i i'm a servant i'm a servant leader And what followed after that couple months in the hospital and all those surgeries, you know, it was a season where everything I thought I knew about strength, about faith was challenged, right? When you're in pain, you're like, what? And so again, I had this identity. I was used to helping other people. I'm the therapist, I'm the veteran, I'm the leader. And Being the person that everyone called when they needed something, when things needed to be figured out. And then suddenly I'm the person that's bedridden. Right. And my body was fighting to just even survive. And so there were moments of uncertainty and the fear that, you know, if I do live, you know, there was really no words to explain it, but I knew I did not want to live like that. You know what I mean? You know how some people are like just hanging on to life, right? But I I did want to live that way. And so eventually, you know, I had to have a conversation with God. And I said, if you will have me, then I will be obedient. To what you want me to do. Because a lot of the things, even though I was serving, it was things that I was doing that I thought I needed to do to get, you know, in the military, you get in, okay, boom, boom, boom, you gotta serve here, you gotta make this rank, you gotta have this title, right? And so my the real question just became, what am I going to do with this life I've been given? Holistically, not just serving. And then my survival ultimately became connected to my purpose. Tiana: So how do how do you deal with the grief of that? The grief of suddenly being the one who needed care when you were always the one that people called on? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, well, it was quite humbling. and you brought up the word grief. It is it it's a lot of grief because again, I had built this ideology of my life around all of the outside things, right? I didn't want to be what I my circumstances of my or product of my environment that I grew up in, which was really, really challenging and really traumatic. And so it was uncomfortable, embarrassment, shame, all of those things. because I had spent most of my life being competent, capable, and responsible for everyone. And when you're accustomed to being that person who has all the answers, being being dependent on others can challenge that identity. And you know, learning to that grief is okay, but also learning that there is beauty in grief. That's something that I started to learn more recently. You know, I think after my father just recently passed. There is beauty in grief because you get a level of clarity that you never had before. And so a lot of us are wondering, you know. How do I do this? How do I make this money? God, you've given me this vision and you've told me to do this, but that's big. I need a lot of money to do that. How am I gonna do that? But when you get through those valleys and you and you learn to even Understand who you truly are, not what the world thinks you are, right? I have all these titles. I'm Doctor this, I'm Captain This, I'm all these things. But when you say I am a child of God and God has given me clarity to do what He's asked me to do, and then you transform into this entity who you could never even imagine, right? After I surrendered. This is this is going to be the quick answer to this, okay? After I truly surrendered, right? The grief is going to continue. It's not like a one and done. There are things that are going to continue to happen because we need to shed these ideologies of who we were to become who we were truly meant to be. But when I started to when I decided to surrender and make that decision. Three weeks after I've officially retired, I'm meeting with Howard Schultz, the billionaire who founded Starbucks. And this fat past April, I did my first TED Talk in the Netherlands. Do you think I would be doing any of that stuff and having the largest impact? Right? Because when you're in uniform, you can't really say a whole lot. Yes, you're making a bit impact, Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: but you're serving for someone else's, you know, mission. But when you start to serve for the mission of what you're called to do, God will blow your mind. Blow your mind. Shaniqua Rischer: You know, I want to highlight something that you just said about the the beauty that has come from this. And it really reminded me of Isaiah 61 and 3, when scripture says that God will give us beauty for ashes and the well of joy for the mourning. And, Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: you know, I I wanted to ask you what is survival cost you, but I'm I wanna actually switch that question is to that what has survival given you? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Mm. Shaniqua Rischer: On the other side, what what because Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: you you kind of alluded to a lot of that, but what it Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: has even beyond opportunity, what is it giving you as a woman, a daughter of the king? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Serv it's giving me and I mentioned that clarity. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: The beauty in that grief, the beauty for the ashes has given me more than I ever because I thought I went through a lot already. I'm like, I can't go through anything. You know, they say God won't give you anything more than you can handle. And I'm like, no, I already been through. Right. Yeah. Like you like, wait a minute now. Shaniqua Rischer: I hate that. I hate that. I hate that. 'Cause that is that is not scripture. That is not based in scripture. I hate that saying. I'm like, yes, he will. That's how you're supposed to handle it with him. Tiana: Make it bear. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: But it's given me a level of clarity that, okay, so let me just give you an analogy. There are people who come into therapy, Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: in and out of therapy for years over their whole life, right? But they come back because they're asking the very same question that they've asked in different seasons of their lives, right? And One of the questions is, like, you know, I think there's a question about their existence. People are always questioning their existence because people think, okay, I just need to keep getting a new job, or I keep needing to get in a new relationship, but you don't understand why you're experiencing the same thing over and over and over, right? That same you got the same boss in a different seat. You got the same thing Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: you experience in this relationship with people, not necessarily even a a romantic relationship. It could be friends, it could be platonic, but you keep going through the same thing. And so when you don't surrender to God's will, that's what's gonna continue to happen to you. Not that it's not okay that you can't go to therapy several times because if you have illness, again, you have to go in for your checkups, right? We Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: go to the we go to get our our medical exam every year, right? The big one. Shaniqua Rischer: Annual exams. Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So you should continue to go. But I'm saying we're not getting clarity because we're not in a in a sense of surrender. So in this season, I've been able to exercise that real surrender muscle. And again, it's a practice. It's not, got the t-shirt. I'm at the top of the mountain. I got it. No. But when you have nothing else, and that's all you have left. Because you don't know if you're gonna live. You don't know if you're gonna live a meaningful or productive life, right? I've lost over a hundred pounds, right? I'm more beautiful than I've ever been in my life. I didn't know I was gonna do that. So I've been given clarity because I surrendered. And so here's the thing now. When they talk about wearing, you know, putting on the armor of God every day. I feel like I have that in every decision that I make. I know right away. Now I'm not, I'm still human, so everything I do, I might be like, I might go in there in the door, I'm not supposed to go in, but I but I make a U-turn right away though. Before you get through down three miles before you made a U-turn. You know what I mean? So like, and when I the other side of clarity. Is operating in a state of flow. So I don't struggle like I did before, right? Why aren't you giving me this? I earned it. I worked 10 times harder than everyone else. Now I work less, but I've gained so much more. Right. And so when I allow God to work that, I pray over everything. Again, I thought I did that before, but now it just feels life feels lighter. Figuratively and literally, because spiritually I have given God, you know, the the driver's wheel. And so because of that, I don't worry about anything. If something doesn't work out, it's because it wasn't supposed to. And knowing everything that I've gotten through in my life, and everything that all of you and everyone else will go through in your life, when you get through it and you know, wait a minute. I must be here for a reason. When you start to hone in on what that is, you don't feel like you're working anymore. This does not feel like work to me. Shaniqua Rischer: you you've said so much, but this is you know, I believe that there's a difference between submission and surrender. That Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: submission, you still is it's a fighting, but you've just been beat down into, hey, I'm just gonna submit this. But surrendering is that you truly just give something over, you let go, you release it to God. You know, the Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: whole premise of this podcast, we call it the Brave Becoming because. We are becoming someone new. And it is such a courageous journey to Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: come and to transform. But Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Mm. Shaniqua Rischer: something about what you said was that about you you finally getting to this point of surrender. We are three black women. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: it it can be hard to surrender. It can be hard to release and to let go. we I, in my opinion, in some Ways think that, you know, epigenetics plays a role in that, that we've been conditioned to to be all, to do this. So can you really speak about a little bit more from that surrender standpoint of how you were finally able to do that? Because yes, illness may have brought you there, but there was there was a decision, there was a conscious thing that's for some point for you to be like. But I'm not submitted because of illness. I am surrendering because you're a God. So can you Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: tell us a little bit more about that? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And you know what's funny? Like when you say that, it sounds so like a movie. You know what I mean? Like, Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: I mean, it sounds big, like real dramatic. And it it is, but at the same time, it's not as beautiful as that you so eloquently put it. I was at a point where I literally, right. Told God I cannot live like this. I did not want to live like this. And so it's either I live or I die. And I don't mean live and struggle. No, no, no. When Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: I say live, I mean live. So, because there's a lot of people who are living who are dead inside, you know. And so I don't I I'm not living like that, period. And so the ultimate surrender is when a lot of people face situations that they do not know how they're ever gonna get out of. Right? They're in this valley, in this season, in this dark tunnel where there's no light at the end of it. You know the saying, the light at the end of the tunnel, you see a little glimmer. No, it's dark. Okay. Little rats running around, bugs is smelly. You know, it it's not cute. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And so I'm not living like this. So it is a true deep spiritual. It's a conversation, but it's almost like a rebirth. You it's going from this is who I was to now. It's like basically a spiritual baptism, if that's an analogy that I could give. But I could not, if you If you understood the level of suffering and pain, physical, mental anguish that I was in, the it it wasn't pretty. And so, you know, I'll just give you a little just a just a little glimpse of that story. I remember one night, you know, I'm in my prayer meditation room. And because when I'm struggling, I didn't want to sleep with my husband and keep him awake. So I went into my meditation room and I was just, I was in a dark, dark space. And I'm like, Lord, I can't do this. You know, I'm talking like what you what do you have for me? Trying to read, trying to listen to audio books on tape, meditations, all of this stuff. And so I asked that question and God told me to go and decorate my master bathroom. Sounds crazy, I know. God will give you the answers. It won't make sense to you. Tiana: It won't. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So I took my walker. I couldn't even walk. And I went to the bathroom and I just looked around. Now you God will give you ways of therapy too. You know, it's not always what everybody thinks, your therapy. That's part of it, but some of it is specific to you because only you would understand what he's saying. So I I Take my little walker. I go to the bathroom and I look around. I just look around. And I came back to the room and I got this energy. Something came over me. And I went online, I went on Pinterest. I did my Pinterest board and I redecorated the bathroom virtually. I ordered everything that night. Everything. The stuff for the mirrors. I got these decals. pictures, rug. I got this little ottoman, the storage beautiful ottoman. I did all the decorating in one night. All the stuff started coming in over the next days and weeks, right? And my husband put it all together for me. I told him where everything went. What God showed me that night through that was that I can transform you in one night. Even though you're 254 pounds, even though your face is drooping on one side, even though you have pain. You it look the room, the my it what my bathroom wasn't ugly anyway, but Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: but that gave me a glimmer of what could happen. And that's the way it needed to happen. So again, that level of that beauty in the ashes, it just gave me a level of clarity, and everything that I've done since has been aligned with what he's asking me to do specifically. Tiana: With with what you were experiencing beforehand and all that different stretching, when God showed you that he can transform you as as quickly Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: as possible, was it easy for you to trust that word? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: No. Shaniqua Rischer: Ha ha Dr. Malaysia Harrell: When you're in pain, like It wasn't easy to trust. So it again, it's not romantic, right? I'm telling you now what it showed me. It didn't you know, it's a process. Shaniqua Rischer: I didn't Dr. Malaysia Harrell: It wasn't like, one night. When you're in pain, you don't see clearly, you don't experience life the same way, you know. But what I said to myself was, yes, I had all of those beautiful things. I had the house, the car, the husband, the job titles, all of the decorations, every award, presidential awards, right? But did I truly have God inside of me? And that was the biggest thing because I believe a lot of, you know, we have a lot of suicides in the veteran community and and then in the church, it's like, you know, you need prayer, but other people have to do it. And, you know, it almost feels like there's this separation from God. And that's one of the things that I think was a big turning point for me, is that when I realized that God is inside me because most people will never see God, right? They're gonna see God through us and through the kindness and through the love that we give. And so when I realized that he's not because I felt lonely when I was in deep pain and darkness and anguish, I thought he was gone. You know that footprints, you know, scripture when it's like, Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: where were you? I'm sitting here You know, and no, you're inside of me, but through trauma, I think a lot of it's suppressed. I think God can be suppressed, you know, what we eat, what we listen to, the epigenetics, what you talked about, our DNA, the things that we've been predisposed to experience. and then the the community, right? And social media and all of these other things. But if I just think about what God has for me and God being connected to me. What what else can you do? And and I I often say this, this is funny. Be careful what you you messing up with children of God because I don't have to do anything to you. It's gonna come on you with a vengeance. I don't know if y'all saw that movie by Quentin Tarantino with Samuel Jackson when he was saying Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: that quote, and I will rain down. Listen, so I don't Shaniqua Rischer: I think it's Pulp Fiction, right? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Before you think you did this to me and blah blah blah, I'd be like, I'm gonna pray for you. I pray for you. Yeah, like I really pray. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause don't be messing with God's kids. I don't understand why people mess with God's kids anyway. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And it may not come for you, it may come from your lineage when you look at you know other people who like all of their lineages has been taken out. Like just be careful. Shaniqua Rischer: On the other side of this, and even though you are still becoming, we we still in the middle of our dash. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Still be coming. Shaniqua Rischer: So, but but at this point of your journey, you can hear how you your faith has evolved and how it has strengthened. And so, you know, you've said that strong faith. you said in some of your prior talks and your works that strong faith doesn't necessarily produce certainty. So what does faith look like right now for you? And what would your advice be for someone who has faith but it's a mustard seed because they don't see any answers. They don't see that light. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, that's really good. faith for me, it's not like faith is certainty, right? Because that's why we have faith, right? Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: But faith is trusting that God has everything already worked out for us. It no matter what you think or what you feel or how grim things look for us right now. Faith looks like peace. Faith looks like love. Right? Faith looks like grace. Because when you're when you're unfaithful, you don't have those things for yourself, right? You're always judging. You don't believe it's gonna happen, right? And there were moments when, you know, I didn't understand why these things were happening. I didn't understand that at the time, you know. I what? And I didn't have an explanation. I didn't know what the outcome would be, you know. But all I can say is this: God, I don't understand this, but I trust you. And I trust you with everything that I don't understand with my human eye. and I believe that that's a different kind of faith. And one thing that I heard Oprah Winfrey say, I went to an event and she was getting an award in DC, and she said that I am a manifestation of God's dream for my life. And when I thought about how beautiful that was, I said to myself, In our human thinking, we think we want this. But we can't even imagine the things that God has in store. So God's dream for your life is something that you can't even fathom, right? She couldn't fathom owning a network, being a billionaire from where she came from, right? So sometimes faith isn't just saying, I know. I know exactly how this is gonna turn out, but sometimes I think faith is really, I don't know, but I don't have to know everything to take the first step. Tiana: I love that. I love that. Because as humans, we want to know the plans. We want to we wanna know the blueprint. God, where you Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Humans. Yeah. What just Tiana: where you're taking me, what we're doing. I don't want you to take the wheel. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Standard operating procedure point A, B, C, what date, right? Quarterly annual plans Shaniqua Rischer: Listen, listen. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: strategy. Shaniqua Rischer: I just have to interrupt right there on that moment because I want to know every plan. And but I had to realize Jeremiah 29, 11, verses 13. But Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: it's 11. I don't know if y'all could see it. It's written behind me, for Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Yeah. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: Because I I like to control everything. And if I could control God, I would. Back then. Back then. Now I'm totally Tiana: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: different. But it's Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: See, like you said, we we as human we as humans want to be in control and that's such a hard thing. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: It really is. And that's why we struggle. Tiana: It is. It is. That's why Jared. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Especially because we have these expectations built. And then Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Mm-hmm. Tiana: when that expectation doesn't reflect what God is giving us or putting us through, then it's like, you know, we get in a in a frenzy. We're upset. We're disappointed. we go through that human experience where we like, God, I don't think you love me. I I don't think I'm your favorite. But it's because Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Yeah. Tiana: that surrender is so important. that trusting in God that he has a good plan for you is so important. And that's something that I think Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: that we should push more. So I absolutely love Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Right. Tiana: this for for you to come on here and push surrender because that is deeply important. So you Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, it is. Tiana: you describe healing as integrating what happened into your story rather than going back to who you were before. So what Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. That's right. Tiana: does that look like in real life? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So that really, in real life, it means that, you know, I don't have to erase what happened, right? To become whole. Everything that happened happened in a way that it needed to happen to get me to where I am right now, to the point where I'm talking to you ladies tonight. We don't know there could be one person that watches this episode. Whose life is changed, or whose life is, you know, someone may say, okay, I want to get on track and ask for the help that I need. And so for me, the goal isn't necessarily to return to the person who I was before the trauma, right? Because that person does not exist. That person is a part of the whole puzzle. And healing means that I can acknowledge what happened. Without allowing it to really dictate every decision that I make. Yes, it happened. Yes, it changed me, right? It influenced who I am now. And yes, there are things that I still carry, right? I think there is a misnomer that to be healed, I no longer feel pain. Right? I'm over it, right? And so no, you carry parts of this trauma with you, right? Now you may hold it a little bit differently, right? You ever notice where you started packing a lot and the stuff was heavy, but you were military, so you got free baggage and then you didn't have free baggage anymore. It's like I gotta pack differently now, right? And so I released some of that. But then something else happens, right? We watch another trauma or have another trauma. And so now, really, with all of that, I get to decide what I do with the story now. I get to decide what I do with the traumas, how I experience them, right? Do I have to experience them full on as if they just happened yesterday? sometimes that takes time. Right again, it's not like, there's this shame thing, you don't have enough faith, you didn't go to therapy, or you're going to therapy and you should be over it. It doesn't work that way. It's a process. And so giving yourself that grace to understand that. And then the integration part of it is when the experience becomes part of your story without being the entirety of your identity. So you can be a survivor. And not a victim, right? And so that that's a very big distinction that I think is helpful for people to understand. Shaniqua Rischer: I loved how you literally it it it's a part of your story, but it's not your identity. I Dr. Malaysia Harrell: That's right. Shaniqua Rischer: love that. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much for that. So Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, and we have to be careful with the language that we use. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: you know, a lot of people, you know, life and death is in the life and death is the power of the tongue, right? Shaniqua Rischer: Powered. Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And I hear people like online and different things, and I hear people say, you know, they've gotten a heart transplant or they have and they say that they have heart failure. And they write write it on their bio and their profile, heart failure. In heart failure. Part of that faith is not using those terms. Now we have to have a baseline. We have to know what we what we Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah, so Dr. Malaysia Harrell: have and how to figure out how to treat it and work with our providers and work with God and everything. But when you keep saying that. It's gonna keep coming up for you. So look at what language you're using, you know, because does it make you feel feel bad to keep saying it? You know, you'll feel it. And so change your language up a little bit and make it empowering for yourself. And then and then it'll be you'll experience life so much differently. Shaniqua Rischer: Agreed, agreed. That's a struggle that I have. My best friend gets on me all the time. And Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: she was like, I'll say, I have this, like I have glaucoma. And she's like, they you've been diagnosed with glaucoma. You don't necessarily have don't start ownership of it. You know, like stop taking ownership of these things. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: That's right. It's a diagnosis. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a diagnosis. It's not me. Right? It's not Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah, mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: you. Right? And think about again, everything that we're experiencing is a blip in our whole existence. In our existence, I'm talking about before we came in this world, while we're here and after. It's a blip. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: It's not even a second of our of our whole entire existence. Tiana: It's not you, it's an experience. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Right. Shaniqua Rischer: Think that's a good also a good way to even look at a simplified way, but also if again, a way to look at trauma. That Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: it's it's not you, it's you, it's not your identity. It was an unfortunate experience, but it Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: it doesn't, it doesn't have to define who you are. And then neither Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: does it even have to be to define your faith. It can be a part Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: of your your journey with faith. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: It can strengthen your faith, it can grow your faith. But and Dr. Malaysia Harrell: It can definitely grow your faith. Shaniqua Rischer: and that's also even a choice. because for some people, trauma has had the opposite of faith. I mean, the opposite effect. It has it has destroyed their faith or it has taken them away. And Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: so, Dr. Melasia, with that, how can someone that has struggled with trauma and how it has impacted their faith where they haven't grown from it. It actually has been something that has stymied or stifled or even destroyed their faith. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Well, I will tell you that most people who experience trauma, I mean, that's most people. So in the beginning, that's gonna happen to a majority of the people. It and depending on what you're experiencing. And so I don't I don't want people to think that, you know, that's wrong or that's completely normal to question. And again, I use question. I didn't say I Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: didn't have faith because again, when I'm looking at the mental health models and the and the spirituality and faith models, you know, we use cognitive behavioral therapy to kind of reframe, you know, how we experience and we give you a whole model and how you, you know, experience the world differently, right? But on the on the same end of it, it is completely normal to not have faith about something that when you lose your parent, when you lose a child, when you lose people traumatically, when something traumatic comes to you, if someone is violated, you're gonna have wait a minute now. Right? I'm a child of God, but this is happening to me. So no, that's going to happen. But the goal is ultimately to get in a space where that where you have the opportunity to communicate with God, right? To get some level of understanding and some level of healing in there. And once you start to do that, then there's a potential that your faith can be restored. But it's not to say that, because again, I didn't, I didn't have faith in the beginning. What? I did everything. What you mean? Like, I'm ready to go. We could go on to the next the upper room. Okay, we we done. There's nothing else to talk about. But no, I again it was a matter. I'm I'm I made a decision and I'm not going to live like that. Period. Now, do I live with pain? Do I experience pain still? Yes, absolutely. But there's ways around that too, right? So Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: if just say, for example, I'm in pain. Well, I used to bodybuild, I used to do races 26.2 miles, that's painful. So if I just start getting a two-pound weight and lifting, then I can associate that pain with the weights, right? Tiana: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: So I'm just saying that is that that's a really good question, but that's a process. I don't want to make it seem like, okay, you got faith, boom, here it is, you restored. No, it's a it's a process. But what I will say is when you do start the process of learning the surrender and how that feels, that when you start to do that. Things are gonna start to be revealed to you. wow, I went to school for this, and I have six figures and school loans, but this isn't really what I'm supposed to be doing. And it's okay to release that. Really? You're crazy! Everybody's gonna Shaniqua Rischer: Ha ha ha Dr. Malaysia Harrell: say you're mad. They're gonna think you're absolutely But when you do what God tells you, it doesn't matter what anyone says. So yeah, I wanna be clear with that. I don't wanna give any like, no, you're gonna question. Shaniqua Rischer: No, that's good. That's good. But I love that because it's it you the re the reframe and that it's Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: a process and in and understanding that. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Everything what you losing weight, you getting a degree, everything is a process. You changing your identity, changing Shaniqua Rischer: Faith of the process. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: your thoughts, everything is a process. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. That's good. That's good. Tiana: Yeah, that's very true. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: so the reframing process, that is a personal one, right? But we are supposed to do life with each other and be in community and carry each other burdens. So would you have any tips for us to help disciple other people through trauma and also holding on to their faith? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. this is a really good one. This is a really good one because I actually I had a conversation with someone recently who is very religious. And, you know, I feel like again, you there's a lot of judgment that happens sometimes in in our community. And and that's where I want to make sure that we are. We we are aware of that. Okay. So one of the things that we can do as supporters, as disciples, is to be present. Right? So when we started talking, did we come on here preaching? Right? here's the scripture. Shaniqua Rischer: No. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Here's your scripture. Boom. We we reference the Bible tonight. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: But when I am telling, when I am in pain, when I am suffering from trauma, I do not need you to preach to me. Shaniqua Rischer: Exactly. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: I need you to be present and I need you to have a level of awareness. I you may need to tell me that Jesus loves me. You can say that. But that's one of the biggest things that we need to really be considerate of and cognizant because sometimes people don't need another explanation, right? God is gonna tell them, they're gonna give them clues. And they need someone who can be there, show empathy, sit beside them without trying to fix them, right? So instead of you just need to pray more, right? Maybe we could consider, I don't know exactly what you're experiencing, but I'm here. That's it. Right? Every instead of everything happens for a reason. Yeah, say that to me when I'm going through that and see what you get. Shaniqua Rischer: Ha ha Dr. Malaysia Harrell: See what you get. Hopefully we're not in person. Right? This is painful. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: And you don't have to go through this alone. That's it. And if someone needs professional help, don't make that person feel like seeking therapy represents, you know, that they're they're not faithful. Right? All you gotta do is pray. No, that's not all you gotta do. God gave us all these senses to do more things, right? Pick up your bed and walk. We can pray with someone. We can help them find a therapist. We can believe in God and we can believe in medicine and alternative and integrative health, right? A lot of people are saying, if you do yoga, this means this or that. It doesn't have to be called that. Again, cognitive behavioral, right? Frame it whatever you need to frame it, but you keep sitting there and not exercising whatever you got to do, but you can't exercise and you can't do walks. You need some stretching, whatever you want to call it. Okay. So we can believe in a spiritual community and we can believe in clinical care. And I just believe that God can work through prayer, through community, through therapy, through physicians, medications, rests, and all different types of support that we have available. Shaniqua Rischer: That was a great closing. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Ha Tiana: It was Dr. Malaysia Harrell: ha ha! Shaniqua Rischer: Is there anything you want to leave with the guests? What I've you literally just summarized it and said it. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: That was great. That was great. So I guess my final question then will be where can people find you enjoying what you're building? Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah, so again, thank you, ladies, for this just amazing opportunity. I just love what you're doing and I love that, you know, you're putting Christ at the forefront of everything. I think that's the answer to a lot of, you know, our our questions that we have. and people can find me through my work with Blissful Life Consulting and also the Malaysia Herel Foundation. my work is really centered on helping people move beyond surviving. As what we talked about tonight, and towards a life of purpose, wellness, resilience, and alignment. and also I build this through speaking, teaching, writing, mental health education, community initiatives, and conversations like this one. And so people can find me on Instagram and most platforms, Malaysia Horel. and again, I just want people to know that you don't have to abandon your faith to acknowledge your pain. And also you don't have to deny your pain to prove your faith. And sometimes the bravest form of faith is being honest enough to say, I'm hurting, I need help, and I still believe. And that to me is brave becoming. Shaniqua Rischer: I love that. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much, Dr. Malaysia. we're definitely Dr. Malaysia Harrell: You're welcome. Shaniqua Rischer: gonna put all of your contact information Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Shaniqua Rischer: in the the notes on the screen. All of that. They can find Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Thank you. Shaniqua Rischer: you on your website and on Instagram, Doctor Malaysia. But thank you so much. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yes. Thank you both for what you're doing and being disciples and duplicating, right? We're duplicating our messages. And again, if you don't have the answer, then that answer for that is prayer because you will get the resources that are that you need as long as you are attentive. And when you get the answers, don't just let them sit there. You have to act on it. Like you all did with the podcast. Shaniqua Rischer: That's like part two. Dr. Malaysia Harrell: Yeah. Tiana: Amen. so this has been a wonderful episode, and as always, our prayer is that this is edifying to your spirit and edifying to your journey and edifying to your journey of becoming. So please keep up with us and follow us on Instagram at Brave Becoming Podcast. We're on Facebook at the Brave Becoming Podcast. And don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube at the Brave Becoming Podcast. And thank you all for watching. We'll see you all next week. Take care and stay encouraged.