Latest / Credlin / Credlin | 8 September

Transcript

Credlin | 8 September · Credlin

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Peter Credlin, live from News 24.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: tonight on Credlin. Tonight, Labor in a bind. Chris Minns
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: argues against the federal plan to keep the tobacco excise
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: where it is. The coalition ramping up pressure in the chamber.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: And the health minister, well, he's more concerned with the
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: data than the damage to small business. Labor unveils its
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: digital duty of care as it doubles down on its bid,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: it says, to stop harm on the internet. But critics
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: aren't convinced. They say this is the slippery slope to censorship.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I'll explain what it all means in just a moment
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: and Labor's history here as well. We'll cross to London
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: where reports are that flying the Union Jack in multicultural
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Birmingham will land you in jail. Critics are angry and
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: desperate to protect, they say, the British culture they fear
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: is being lost. And the One Nation leader in Victoria,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a fierce defence tonight from Warren Pickering, despite allegations that
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: have dogged him in recent days. I said last night
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: this has got the potential to only further lock in
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: party supporters rather than repel them.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: But when I talk about cultivating talent from the real
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: world to represent the Victorian people, this is what I mean.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: People with lived experience.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: People that refuse to be a victim of their own past.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: Now, without Warren there through my young age as the eldest,
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: our shoulders would have been a lot worse.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Than they were.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I'll come back to that in a moment because it
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: was a seismic press conference late this afternoon. But first,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: if you think Labor's new digital duty of care is
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: about protecting children online, think again. After all, we already
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: have in place a ban on social media for those
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: under the age of 16. If children are not being
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: protected under current laws, then it's up to the government
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: to make them tougher or to start fining the tech
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: companies as they've repeatedly threatened they would do but never have. No,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: this new bill circulated today is about controlling what adults see,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: hear and read. And we know that because this bill
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: comes with a long Labor history that goes back as
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: far as the Gillard era. Now, let me explain. In
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: March 2013, in the dying days of the Gillard government,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Labor introduced a highly controversial package of six media reform
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: bills that at the time critics labelled an assault on
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: free speech and press freedom, a form of state censorship,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: even some said. At the heart of the Gillard reforms
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: was the creation of what was then called the Public
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Interest Media Advocate, a single government-appointed bureaucrat charged with overseeing
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: new standards for press and online media, as well as
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a whole new regime to protect so-called media diversity. Well,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: the backlash was swift and it wasn't just from the
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: media industry. Nor was it criticism from those you might
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: expect to be against this draconian attack on free speech.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Left-wing politicians like the independent Andrew Wilkie vociferously opposed the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Gillard bills. So too global watchdogs like the International Press Institute,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: which strongly criticised the government's attempt to unduly interfere in
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: media independence. With almost no friends to support her attempt
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to censor the media, the bulk of Gillard's contentious changes
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: were eventually dumped. But Labor play a long game because
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: here we are 13 years later watching them try and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: do it all over again, only this time cutting enough
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: to cover it all in the cloak of child protection,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a lesson they've learned well from the unions who use
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: the umbrella of safety to to get what they want
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: from employers. Just listen to this question from our political editor,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Andrew Clennell, at the PM's press conference today, because I
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: want you to watch how Albanese fails to answer it,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: but also then the flick pass across to the minister,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: and then listen carefully to what she has to say
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: here too.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: Can you rule out that this legislation will allow ACMA
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: or the eSafety Commissioner to police what you call misinformation
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: on the internet.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: Let's be very clear about what this is about.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: It's not about censorship.
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: It's about giving people control themselves over what they see.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: We can emphatically rule that out. Well, Albanese doesn't answer
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the question there, and Annika Wells goes on in the
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: press conference to talk about child protection and pedophilia. Now,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: this was all done deliberately... I mean, who can be
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: against protecting children from harm? On that, we're all agreed.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: But this is not what this legislation is about because
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: there are already ample laws to do that and multimillion-dollar fines,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: as I said, that the government's never imposed for breaches
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: despite all the tough talk. Now, this is way bigger
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: than that and far more dangerous to our democracy. Now,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: you'll remember the voice. The Prime Minister said it was
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: nothing more than a polite thing to do A gracious
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: invitation from Aboriginal Australia to the rest of us.
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: Have a read of the Uluru Statement from the Heart.
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: Just one page, full of grace and generosity, inviting all
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: Australians to walk together to a better future.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't. It wasn't about any of those things.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: The Voice was one of the most significant referendums ever
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: to be put to the Australian public. If it had
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: been successful, it would have forever changed our constitution by
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: dividing Australians by their race and their genealogy. The Uluru
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Statement from the Heart wasn't a benign one-page document. It
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: was a 26-page radical log of claims that called for
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: treaty and reparations. And we know that only because of
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: a document accessed under freedom of information from within the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: government's own Indigenous department. Now, because we have a free
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: media in this country, at least for the time being,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I was able to explain all of this to Australians.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I was able to make public the government's own Uluru document.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And even when there was an attempt to shut me
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: down and take me off sites like Facebook, our lawyers
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: here at News24 were able to rely on on the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: foundations of free speech and we won. But if these
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: laws pass, how long will those rights hold? Because Labor's
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: new digital duty of care puts free speech at risk.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I think part of the reason why Albanese is so
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: determined to push on and censor the internet is because
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: he gambled with the voice and he lost. He lost big, comprehensively.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Not one state voted for his racially divisive plan and
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: he still hasn't forgiven any person or organisation that stood
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: against him. What's also relevant here is One Nation. Listen
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: again to those comments from the Prime Minister at Labor's
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: recent state conference in Queensland.
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: Delegates, this is a crucial time for our movement because
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: across the world, hard right populists are on the march.
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: peddling politics that is dangerous, divisive and downright dishonest. We
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: simply must defeat them. We owe it to history. We
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: owe it to the nation. And we will defeat them.
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: They'll say anything and do anything to win votes, bend
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: any facts, peddle misinformation and disinformation, turn Australian against Australian.
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: Parties like One Nation have no serious answers to problems.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Right across the world, governments of the left have got
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: us into this socialist death spiral of debt, welfare dependency,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and a big spending big state. Add in the toxic
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: mix of uncontrolled migration and the disintegration of national culture,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And voter backlash is real. This is in large part
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: what's driving support to populist parties of the right and
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: far right. The rise of reform in the UK, the
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: example on the weekend of the AFD in Germany, Maloney
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: in Italy, the phenomenon of Donald Trump and that big,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: big vote block shift in South America. This bill today
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: sold as a digital duty of care is Labor's panic
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: response to voters saying they've had enough of the hard left. Now,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: give it to the Labor Party. When they're in power,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: they go for broke. And this legislation is designed to
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: change forever your access to information in this country. Because
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: once you allow someone or something to set limits on
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: what you see, read and hear, you lose control and
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you lose your freedoms. Even if the initial parameters are defensible,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: once parameters are in place, they will be open to
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: abuse and can be changed to deliver a political outcome.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: For example, take a look at some of the categories
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: that the Albanese government today say require special attention. Look
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: at that category, women and gender. So how will this work?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: It says women and gender. No, there's no mention of men,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: just women. And that word gender, well, gender is not
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: biological sex. Gender's a loaded word. Will this mean that
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: any criticism of trans politics will fall foul of Labor's
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: new digital duty of care laws? Will it mean that
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: anything that debates gender as a contested concept will be
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: banned under these new laws? Kids on puberty blockers, for instance.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Or even a discussion of a Canberra principal forced to
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: quit because she refused to promote trans ideology to primary
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: school aged children. Or issues like welcomes to country. Will
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: you be allowed to criticise them under Labor's new regime? Well,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: that's hard to know. Because so much of this legislation
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: is opaque. And as I expect, given Labor's previous form,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: it will come in via a broad framework with so
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: much of the flesh filled out down the track via
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: ministerial regulation, meaning that MPs who vote for it now
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: in the parliament will have little ability to scrutinise how
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: it will actually work in practice, given that the operational
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: regulations are yet to be made. Now, this is an
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: often used rat-cutting tactic of Labor. It's what I call
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Trojan horse legislation. And any politician would be mad to
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: give Albanese a blank check like this. Right around the world,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: there's a real push by the hard left to shut
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: down free speech. And I know we use the term
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: pretty freely these days, but this truly is Orwellian. Just
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: listen to these comments at Davos a few years ago
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: from Australia's East Safety Commissioner, Julie Inman Grant, because they show,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: more than anything, that this censorship plan has been a
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: long time in the making.
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: We are finding ourselves in a place where we have
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: increasing polarisation everywhere. And everything feels binary when it doesn't
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: need to be. So I think we're going to have
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: to think about a recalibration of a whole range of
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: human rights that are playing out online, you know, from
• 11:53
  Speaker 7: freedom of speech to the freedom.
• 11:55
  Speaker 8: To, you know, to be free from online violence.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: That's it right there. When I was in the UK
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: a couple of months ago, the Labor government at the
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: time released draft legislation to give their media regulator the
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: power to preference favoured news services like the BBC and
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: at the top of any Google search. News services that
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: said the right thing on climate change or immigration, for example,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: would be way ahead of any organisation that challenged the
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: activist narrative. Here too, Australia's regulator ACMA has already started
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: down a similar path. Have a look at this report
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: issued last week about news consumer segmentation and all the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: references here to trusted news sources like the ABC and SBS.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Menchu was made also to the need to reduce the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: concentration of influence among major media companies such as News
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Corporation Australia. Well, as you know, that's the owner of
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: News 24. And then there's the Albanese government's new policy
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to pay media organisations additional millions of dollars to support
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the employment of journalists. So millions to the ABC, SBS
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and a lot of our commercial competitors. But what would
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: you know? My Employer News Corp is not eligible for
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: any of this taxpayer funding. So let's go back to
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: where we started. Labor's announcement today about a digital duty
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: of care is not about protecting Australians. It's not. It's
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: about protecting the left. It's about entrenching Labor power and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: it's about denying Australians access to a broad range of
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: legitimate information sources for you to make up your own mind.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: The Albanese government is in trouble. It's making bad decisions
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that are tanking the economy and it fears that you're
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: waking up to just how bad they are at government.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So what do they do? Well, they upend your access
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: to information, your access to an alternative point of view.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Labor man Graham Richardson said it best. Whatever it takes.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Whatever it takes is what Labor will do to hold
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: on to power, to keep the money rolling out to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: their mates, to tilt the scales in their favour. And
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: this new digital duty of care is about as nuclear
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: as it gets in the fight for free speech. Busy
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: day today. Lots going on. We'll get to Trudy now
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: with the headlines in Canberra.
• 14:36
  Speaker 9: Big tech is facing big new rules in Australia as
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: the Prime Minister unveils long-awaited digital duty of care changes.
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: This is not about giving government control. It's about giving
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: people control.
• 14:50
  Speaker 9: Labor will require tech platforms including apps and AI chatbots
• 14:54
  Speaker 9: to protect users from harmful content.
• 14:56
  Speaker 10: This is about the systems and the tools and the
• 14:59
  Speaker 10: features that cause harm and mostly protect Serious harm for children.
• 15:04
  Speaker 9: Social media users will also be given a choice to
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: opt out of algorithms.
• 15:08
  Speaker 10: And the reality is lots of people are going to
• 15:09
  Speaker 10: want to choose the algorithm.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: That's their choice. We respect that choice.
• 15:13
  Speaker 10: We just want people to have the choice not to
• 15:15
  Speaker 10: do that as well.
• 15:16
  Speaker 9: Coalition and One Nation MPs have raised big concerns.
• 15:19
  Speaker 10: Are the motives here about harmful content or are they
• 15:23
  Speaker 10: about trying to tilt the political scales?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I do worry about the social issues.
• 15:29
  Speaker 11: That's going on at the moment by the Labor government.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: We have to be really careful we don't censor the
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: public square.
• 15:34
  Speaker 9: And it's game on. The Prime Minister is facing off
• 15:37
  Speaker 9: with a high-profile mortgage broker on the tennis court. Ahead
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: of the grudge match, budget critic Joseph Daoud paid for
• 15:44
  Speaker 9: a skywriting stunt above Parliament.
• 15:46
  Speaker 8: This is unbelievable.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: This is surreal.
• 15:50
  Speaker 9: He wants the PM to rethink the impact of capital
• 15:52
  Speaker 9: gains tax changes on businesses. What does it be to
• 15:55
  Speaker 9: him today?
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: Um.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: We just need more consultation.
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: You know, the budget was served up.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: It was a double fault.
• 16:05
  Speaker 8: They took a victory lap afterwards.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Four months later, we're still talking about the budget.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Is that really fair?
• 16:10
  Speaker 9: Trudy McIntosh, News 24, Canberra.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: All right, plenty of other things coming out of camera
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: that I want to get to, but breaking news this afternoon,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: this is in relation to One Nation in Victoria. Their
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: leader there, Warren Pickering, mounting a fierce defence against allegations
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: that have been playing out in the media over recent days.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: The mistakes I made in my 20s hurt people. They
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: hurt me. They hurt people I loved, and I will
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: live with that forever. But when I talk about cultivating
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: talent from the real world, to represent the Victorian people.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: This is what I mean. People with lived experience. People
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: that refuse to be a victim of their own past
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: and people that can hold themselves to a higher standard
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: now and represent the benchmark for others to attain.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Here to discuss is the More News 24 political editor,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Andrew Clennell. Well, Andrew, you and I have been around
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: politics a long time. You don't often get a press
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: conference like that. I mean, it was spellbinding stuff. What
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: did you make of it?
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Well, I just want to break the news that Anthony
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: Albanese wiped the floor with that tennis bloke, the anti-CGT campaigner,
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: six loves, six loves, six loves. So not much luck
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: for him on the tax or on the tennis court.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: In terms of this Warren Pickering story, Peter, what would
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: we say if this was Ben Carroll? Because it's about
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: time One Nation was held to this standard, in my opinion.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: If Ben Carroll came out and said I was a
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: regular meth user 15, 20 years ago and, you know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: he was a meth user when he had little kids,
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: is that right? I mean, he says he never did
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: it in the house. The ex-partner says differently.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: How would we be looking at this guy?
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: Why does One Nation get a lead pass on these
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: sorts of things? You know, he's trying to be, he's
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: running for Premier this bloke and I just don't think
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: it passes the pub test. Now, plenty of people will
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: have sympathy for him and it's a great sort of
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: reforming story. But I'm kind of pretty anti-drugs myself.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And I don't like it. I don't like it.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: Maybe if he was running for the upper house or something, whatever,
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: but he's running for Premier. It's a pretty high standard
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: and I think they will suffer because of it.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Let me just jump in there. I think there's a
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: couple of issues. One, how will it play with the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: One Nation base as opposed to the other parts of
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: the electorate that they're going to chase come November. That's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: one thing. Two, there's no evidence since this period of
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: life 20-odd years ago and given he was assessed by
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the court to get custody of the children at each
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: time custody was sought and courts reluctantly give custody to
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the male partner, but they did in this instance, he
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: got custody of the children, he was admitted into the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Defence Force, he held a top secret clearance. I've had one.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: They're not easy to get. They're certainly not easy to
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: hold if you behave badly, but he did hold one.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And now it's a story of redemption. And so in
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: that One Nation assessment world, as they did with a
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: bloke in Sacred Harbour who also admitted to prior drug use,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and he was elected in a landslide, Andrew, I'm not
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: sure it's going to hurt them in terms of their base.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Is it going to bring people to One Nation? I
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: think that's contestable. But remember when Chris Minns appointed the
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Chief Commissioner of Police in New South Wales and there
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: was a bit of a checkered history with him and
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: he said, on the worst day in Sydney, this is
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the bloke that I want in the top job. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: we all know that Tanya Plebiscite's husband was jailed as
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: a drug trafficker for some time. He came out, redeemed
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: his life. I think he's the head of Premier and Cabinet,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: isn't he, in New South Wales. He's certainly run senior
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: government departments. He was allowed to have a second chance.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: People will say, aren't we being hypocritical here? The question is,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: did he lie? Was he asked about these events? And
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: did he deny them when, in fact, they are true?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: That's where you'll get caught out if that's the fact.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Well, what about the ADF?
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, do you think he told the truth to
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: the ADF to get that high-level clearance?
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I suspect he did, mate.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you can. He did. You can admit... Well, no,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying he did or he didn't, but I'm
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: saying I know many people who have gone to get
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: their TS, the top-secret clearance, and as long as you
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: disclose something, if the defence... force finds it out in
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the security clearance process. If you have disclosed it, they'll
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: make a judgment call whether you're of calibre to stand
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: there or good character. But if they find something you
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: haven't disclosed, you are in trouble.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I still feel if this was Ben Carroll
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: and this came out about Ben Carroll, he'd be resigning today,
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: you know. If this came out about Angus Taylor, he
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: wouldn't be in a job.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: Why does One Nation get the leave pass?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Angus Taylor is a conservative, so there'll be no leave
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: pass for him. It'd only be worse if he was
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: a conservative woman. But if it was Ben Carroll, what's worse,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: admitting to using meth in your 20s or potentially corrupting
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: the poor old taxpayer to the tune of $ 15 billion
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: or putting in a secret tax, denying the UN anything
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: about it, then being revealed as having been told two
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: years about a secret transport tax.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: I don't know what's worse. If it emerges that a
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: political leader of another party or a Premier or a
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: Prime Minister has been a regular user of drugs, you
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: don't think they would pay, and they weren't in One Nation,
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: you don't think they would pay any political penalty for that?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying that. No, I just think, Andrew,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I think times are evolving on this issue. There was
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: a time when single women, they'd never be able to
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: stand for politics than they can. I've never used drugs
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: in my life. Freely admit, never used them. Really, really
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: tough on drugs. That's my message. But I think, you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: you'd be hard-pressed to find someone now under the age
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: of 40 who hasn't dabbled in something. And I think
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it's going to come up more and more as we
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: discuss candidates. I mean, I, you know, I would like
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: to think that One Nation could do better and have
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: someone that's got a better character than this.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: But people will have watched him today.
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: There you go.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: They will have watched him today and the way he
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: responded and the way those two children were absolutely in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: his corner and said that their lives would have been way,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: way worse if he did not basically become their guardian
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and stand up and raise them. Well, people will pay
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: homage to that. They will think that is a good thing.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I felt for them.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: I did feel for them because this isn't their choice
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: really as well, you know, to be out there defending.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: I mean, they have the choice, I guess, in the end. But,
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: you know, the old story, I mean, this is not
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: their life. They're not the ones running for office and
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: yet they have to be brought out to defend the guy.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: So I don't know. A lot of One Nation voters
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: I would have thought were older, more conservative on issues
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: like this. The young supporters of One Nation, sure. They'll
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: give the guy a go. But do you concede that
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: there appears at the moment, even if it's just a
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: public perception, to be different rules for one nation to
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: the majors?
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I pulled Laura Jays up on this the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: other day.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Because I said we're talking about establishment.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Parties, not in the media. I'm talking out there.
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: I'm talking about the viewers out there, the public out there,
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: that in their minds somehow they believe that One Nation
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: isn't a political party and it very much is. I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: Pauline Hanson's been in this place since 1996, you know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: except for one period out of it. Even then she
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: went to be a staffer for Lynne Harris at one point.
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: And yet she's painted somehow as above politics or not
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: a politician. And, frankly, I think it's garbage. You know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: James Ashby is a very skilled political operator, but he
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: is one. And yet the perception out there is that
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: these guys aren't politicians. It does frustrate me because everyone
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: should be held to the same standard, in my view,
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: if they're.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Running for parliament.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of this is a reaction to
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the two major parties and that's why there's a leave passing.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: because they are so angry with the other two. It's
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: what happened to Trump. Remember all those allegations against Trump,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: all the things that were thrown out in his first run,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: he still succeeded. Nothing would touch him. He was Teflon
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: in that first run.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: This is Trump-esque.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Because they were so angry... They were so angry with
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: where they were with the Democrats. Ditto with Nigel Farage.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, Nigel Farage has been married about, you know,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: six or seven different times. He's got a checkered sort
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: of colourful financial history. There's lots of colour and movement there.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: He's got problems at the moment.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, he has now.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: His poll numbers are dropping because he's got problems at
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the moment.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, but for a long time, for a long time,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: he was out there well ahead and none of this
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: stuff touched him. Now, will it eventually hit Hanson? Could well.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It could well. But right now, I think this may
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: play the other way.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've been a Chief of Staff to a PM.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: You know that once you cross that blue carpet down there,
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: how bloody hard the job is and how hard it
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: is to run a country and how you can't just
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: click your fingers and make a whole bunch of things happen.
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: Does it not frustrate you as a former Liberal Party
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: political professional that One Nation can say pretty much whatever
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: they want And, you know, they're not based in reality,
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: in terms of political reality, on how people are perceiving
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: them at the moment. Because once, if they ever got
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: the keys, they'd learn fast. A lot of the things
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: they talk about just aren't possible.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: The worm eventually turns. It used to frustrate me that
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: people gave Gillard such a leave pass when she was
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: a pretty appalling Prime Minister. And Kevin Rudd. We all
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: knew from day one what Kevin Rudd was behind closed doors.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: But the Kevin 07 myth took a long time to bust. So...
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I think the same thing will happen with the current
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister. I think this is eventually what happens in politics, Andrew.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: The worm turns and right now, you know, the current's
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: headed in one nation's favour. It doesn't always stay like that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's where things will, yeah, will be pretty
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: interesting to watch over the next few months. I think
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: coming out of Victoria, this Victorian result now, given the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: events of this afternoon with their lead candidate, with Warren
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Pickering will play out in Victoria and we'll all read
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the tea leaves about that as to how that then
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: will impact the Hanson brand nationally, but in Canberra in particular,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: as well as what happens with Jess Wilson and Ben
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Carroll in Victoria.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: I think that's right, but I think because of this
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: pickering thing now, I wonder how it will play nationally,
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: whether people will just say, well, that's a Victorian issue,
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: the national show's different.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I will say this, though.
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: I've interviewed Pauline Hanson a couple of times now for
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Sunday Agenda. I think I interviewed her 20 years ago.
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: And she is a vastly improved politician in my estimation.
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: It's quite, you know, when I'm doing those interviews, you know, Peter,
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to catch them somewhere.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: It's not that easy.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: She's got a pretty decent forward defence these days, Pauline Hanson.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: And that kind.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Of surprised me, you know.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: So that's going to be interesting as we go forward
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: towards a campaign. I still maintain they're getting a go
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: that others won't with the general public. and perhaps one
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: too good a go that they don't deserve. They should
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: be regarded as any other contenders for the job. But
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: I think she's improved, and I think Barnaby Joyce is
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: a pretty brilliant retail politician. So it's really going to
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: be a formidable campaign. And when you think about it,
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: opposition's BS all the time in head government, right? Like
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Anthony Albanese said he was going to cut everyone's power bill.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: So people who rubbish One Nation's policies... Well, a lot
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: of the people out there just go, well, oppositions always
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: do this. They always promise things that they're not going
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: to deliver. What's the difference with her? And that's another
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: interesting dynamic in it as well. So they kind of
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: are prepared to forgive it because it is just like
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: everyone else.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I guess the difference between me and a lot of commentators,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I suspect you're the same, is, well, certainly for me,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I've been on the tools, right? I've run campaigns. And
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: the biggest lesson I say to people is never underestimate
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: your opponent. And I have never underestimated Labor... And I'm
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: not stupid enough to underestimate One Nation. So that's why
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot to play out with this
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Pickering press conference today. Out there in the real world,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I think the attitude is very different than even with
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the press gallery in Canberra. Got to leave it there, mate.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Great to have your contribution on that. Six love, six love. Well,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister can at least play tennis if he
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: can't run the country. Thank you, Andrew. After the break,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: another look at Labor's digital duty of care. I'll get
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: into that with a bit of an expert in a
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: moment because this is not about protecting children. This is
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: about controlling you. That's next. Welcome back. Coming up, the
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: British city where residents could face jail for flying the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Union Jack. Yep, you got that one right. We'll get
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: to that in a moment. But now to the digital
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: duty of care reforms tabled with a whole lot of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: fanfare in Canberra today.
• 29:39
  Speaker 10: And there is a global reckoning coming for big tech.
• 29:43
  Speaker 10: And it started here in Australia.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Joining me now, the Shadow Communications Minister, Senator Sarah Henderson. Sarah,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: thank you for your time. I let off the show
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: with this tonight because I think it's so important people
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: understand that the genesis for a lot of this goes
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: all the way back to those Gillard-era media reforms that
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: were eventually junked. But this is about censorship of the internet.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: That's certainly my read. They're cloaking it as a child
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: protection measure. Oh, I can't hear her. Have we got
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: that picked up? I think we just might see if
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the boys can pick her up. The issue here obviously
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: with Sarah Henderson is she's got a long history not
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: only as a senator but she's also worked in the
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: media for the ABC. Sarah, get your take on this.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I opened the show with the whole announcement today. Yes,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: they're talking about child protection but I see this as
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Labor's latest attempt to try and censor media organisations but now,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: of course, what we all receive as users online.
• 30:50
  Speaker 12: Peter, our worst fears have been realised today with the
• 30:53
  Speaker 12: release of the exposure draft.
• 30:55
  Speaker 13: Of the Digital Duty of Care.
• 30:58
  Speaker 12: It provides the Minister with unfettered powers to make any
• 31:02
  Speaker 12: regulation into what she would describe as serious harm in
• 31:06
  Speaker 12: the case of adults or harm concerning children. Now, this
• 31:11
  Speaker 12: means almost anything. The government could shut down any content
• 31:15
  Speaker 12: or material that they deem necessary to be harmful.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: This is a.
• 31:19
  Speaker 12: Very egregious breach of our freedom of expression and we
• 31:23
  Speaker 12: must fight this extremely hard.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I used the example at the top of the show,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: this is even before these laws, where people Things that
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I got out of FOI from the government about The
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Voice were then banned and taken off online after objections
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: from activists. Well, the lawyers here fought it. We got
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: back into the fight on The Voice and eventually The
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Voice was defeated. But with these laws, if they pass
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: as they are, then there's no point trying to fight
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: the government on something like The Voice because they will
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: win because they will shut you down.
• 31:59
  Speaker 13: Well, that's exactly right.
• 32:00
  Speaker 12: What if the government decided that it was harmful for
• 32:03
  Speaker 12: children to see material that was questioning gender ideology?
• 32:09
  Speaker 13: I mean, that's just one example of what might happen.
• 32:12
  Speaker 12: We know the eSafety Commissioner has already attempted to shut
• 32:16
  Speaker 12: down this type of material online.
• 32:19
  Speaker 13: And so this is just a shock.
• 32:21
  Speaker 12: The Minister has been out today lying to Australians, saying
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: there is nothing to see here. But she has given
• 32:29
  Speaker 12: herself the ability to make any law without parliamentary oversight.
• 32:34
  Speaker 12: It's extremely dangerous. It's a breach, frankly, a threat to
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: our democracy. It not just threatens media organisations and anyone
• 32:43
  Speaker 12: else with a voice, but it threatens ordinary Australians. And
• 32:47
  Speaker 12: this is just one more of the dangers from this
• 32:50
  Speaker 12: extreme left-wing Albanese government.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Labor will do whatever it takes. I used the
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Graham Richardson phrase at the top of the show, whatever
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: it takes to hang on to power. We saw stuff
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the other day, Sarah, from the Climate Change Authority that
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: said even talking about rising power prices or the fact
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: that regional areas don't like these transmission towers was to
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: be discouraged. Well, that would also be picked up here.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I used the example at the top of the show
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: that even discussing women and gender, that's one of the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: categories that I mean, how do we discuss then trans
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: women playing football and the anger from female sports people
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and parents? Again, that could be shut down under this
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: new regime. It's a Trojan horse bill too, because you
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: rightly say it's going to all be done by regulation.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: How do you even know what you're voting for?
• 33:44
  Speaker 13: Well, that's exactly right.
• 33:46
  Speaker 12: And To make things worse, there's another online safety bill
• 33:49
  Speaker 12: in the Senate right now where the government is seeking
• 33:52
  Speaker 12: egregious powers for the eSafety Commissioner, compulsory powers of interrogation
• 33:59
  Speaker 12: without any right of self-incrimination with extraordinarily heavy fines if
• 34:04
  Speaker 12: you don't comply.
• 34:06
  Speaker 13: Including a jail term of up to 12 months.
• 34:09
  Speaker 12: And those powers apply to anyone in relation to the
• 34:12
  Speaker 12: social media ban, not just the the tech executives or
• 34:16
  Speaker 12: the social media companies.
• 34:17
  Speaker 13: I mean, it could be a parent. It could be
• 34:19
  Speaker 13: a podcaster. This government is out of control. We are
• 34:23
  Speaker 13: fighting this every step of the way.
• 34:26
  Speaker 12: We have put up some and we will be putting
• 34:28
  Speaker 12: up some strong amendments on this bill in the Senate
• 34:31
  Speaker 12: right now, Peter, giving parents greater control, trying to empower
• 34:35
  Speaker 12: parents to give them access to safety tools on operating
• 34:39
  Speaker 12: systems so that they can protect the device of their
• 34:42
  Speaker 12: children We also want to see algorithmic transparency.
• 34:46
  Speaker 13: Like what X has done.
• 34:48
  Speaker 12: X has published a very large part of its algorithm.
• 34:51
  Speaker 13: For the 4U feed.
• 34:53
  Speaker 12: Now, we want to see that across the board as well,
• 34:56
  Speaker 12: but we are not going to stand by and watch
• 34:59
  Speaker 12: the government and the regulator do everything to shut down
• 35:03
  Speaker 12: the free speech of Australians.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So how do we fight it, Sarah? Because Labor's got
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: the numbers in the lower house, obviously, and with the Greens...
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: and some of those tierly-type crossbenchers, they'll have the numbers,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: won't they? How do ordinary people fight this?
• 35:18
  Speaker 13: We have got to fight this like no tomorrow.
• 35:21
  Speaker 12: I know there are already a number of different groups
• 35:25
  Speaker 12: which are gearing up. The IPA, the Free Speech Union
• 35:27
  Speaker 12: of Australia, for instance, they're very, very activated. But even
• 35:32
  Speaker 12: the Australian Human Rights Commissioner in our recent Senate inquiry
• 35:35
  Speaker 12: into the current bill in the Senate, she raised very
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: serious concerns about about the digital duty of care and
• 35:42
  Speaker 12: what it might do to free speech. But as you say,
• 35:45
  Speaker 12: this is a Trojan horse because they have mixed this
• 35:48
  Speaker 12: bill in with other, you know, serious harms that no
• 35:52
  Speaker 12: Australian wants to see online. But we have to fight
• 35:56
  Speaker 12: this tooth and nail because this is a very, very
• 36:00
  Speaker 12: dangerous proposal.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I've got to leave it there, Sarah. Thank you for
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: your time and we'll join the fight with you. I
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: think this is one of the hugest issues we've got
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: coming at us. At the moment, all right, quick break.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: After the break, we'll get to this issue in London,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: in London, in the UK. It's not London, it's Birmingham.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: It's about the union, Jack. It'll come to Australia, I
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: guarantee it. And the king lays down the law for
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: the rogue royals, Harry and Meghan. That's up as well.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Coming up, the public servants who don't like the social
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: media clips of them looking like idiots are In Senate estimates,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: we'll get to that with my panel, but first startling
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: revelations that residents of Birmingham, that's the UK's second largest city,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: could face up to two years in jail if they
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: hang the Union Jack near roads. It follows the actions
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: of an activist group called Raise the Colours, which hung
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: more than 20,000 flags across the city to promote national pride.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: The Birmingham City Council, led by Lib Dems, is seeking
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: an injunction to stop flags being put up on lampposts,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: roundabouts and any other city infrastructure. Now, what's interesting here
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: is the demographics of Birmingham. More than half, so more
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: than the majority of its population, is BAME. They call
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: it BAME in the UK, Black, Asian or Ethnic Minority BAME.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: About 30% identify as Muslim. The white population, they call
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: that that in their demographic list. Well, that's in the minority.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And most notably, there's a Sharia council operating out of
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: the Birmingham Central Mosque. So a real fight here from
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: campaigners who argue the British culture is being lost. Joining
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: me now to discuss this and more, our contributor, Sophie Ellsworth, who,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: of course, also is News Corp's European correspondent as well. Sophie,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: how can a council in Britain reject the display of
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the British flag?
• 37:59
  Speaker 14: Well, Peter, I was in Birmingham last week looking at
• 38:03
  Speaker 14: these flags that are all across the city and this group,
• 38:07
  Speaker 14: Raise the Colours, is fighting an injunction from the council
• 38:11
  Speaker 14: who is seeking to stop them putting up these flags
• 38:14
  Speaker 14: on lampposts and along roads and highways.
• 38:17
  Speaker 8: Now, it's due.
• 38:18
  Speaker 14: to go to court in Birmingham today to see if
• 38:21
  Speaker 14: the council is successful in getting this injunction.
• 38:25
  Speaker 8: They were successful in.
• 38:26
  Speaker 14: The Oxfordshire Council for the same measure. But this is
• 38:31
  Speaker 14: very concerning, Peter, because I've spoken to people on the
• 38:33
  Speaker 14: ground in Birmingham who say they're really just trying to
• 38:36
  Speaker 14: be patriotic by raising the flags across roads and highways
• 38:41
  Speaker 14: And now they're potentially being put, there's a stop being
• 38:45
  Speaker 14: put to this and they could face jail time if
• 38:48
  Speaker 14: they are successful, the council that is, in seeking this injunction.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, we've all seen the scenes around Trooping the
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Colour or things like the coronation. The place is littered
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: with Union Jacks. They're absolutely everywhere, right across the UK.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: What's the argument in Birmingham for not displaying their national flag?
• 39:11
  Speaker 14: Well, the argument is that it's not safe to have
• 39:14
  Speaker 14: these flags put up along roads and highways and they.
• 39:17
  Speaker 8: Shouldn't be in the council. But why is it not safe?
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Why is it not safe?
• 39:20
  Speaker 14: Because they're saying they shouldn't be constructing them and hanging
• 39:24
  Speaker 14: them from things such as lampposts across the city.
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: They're saying that is not safe to do so.
• 39:30
  Speaker 14: The Birmingham Council has told me though that people are
• 39:34
  Speaker 14: free to fly flags in their own homes, but they
• 39:37
  Speaker 14: don't want to see them in public spaces. And I
• 39:39
  Speaker 14: asked them if it applied to all flags.
• 39:41
  Speaker 8: They said it does, Peter.
• 39:43
  Speaker 14: But I think this is a slippery slope and a
• 39:45
  Speaker 14: dangerous one that they're going down. And we'll wait and
• 39:48
  Speaker 14: see what happens in court today. But the group Raise
• 39:51
  Speaker 14: the Colours are hoping to fight this.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: You and I crossed to the Glasgow Commonwealth Games and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: you came to us from a street that was covered
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: in pride flags, trans flags for the trans athletes and
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. How's that OK?
• 40:12
  Speaker 14: Peter, that's obviously in Scotland and this is happening in
• 40:15
  Speaker 14: England and it's different councils enforcing different rules. But Birmingham
• 40:20
  Speaker 14: City Council are irate about this. They want to put
• 40:23
  Speaker 14: a stop to it. I mean, I was driving up
• 40:25
  Speaker 14: and down the streets in Birmingham, Peter, and there's literally dozens,
• 40:29
  Speaker 14: if not hundreds of flags lining certain streets throughout Birmingham.
• 40:33
  Speaker 14: They are everywhere when you drive around the streets. And
• 40:36
  Speaker 14: now the council, who is bankrupt, mind you, declared bankrupt
• 40:40
  Speaker 14: several years ago, are looking to have these flags removed.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what this is going to do in
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: terms of the national debate because it will capture the
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: imagination of those who think Britain's being lost. And, you know,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: it's on this vein that you've got Nigel Farage out
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: there calling for balaclavas and all full-face coverings to be
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: banned on British streets. Presumably we're talking about burqas and
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: other things here, but this is a reference obviously to
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the activists who were on the beaches... With Berkers, I presume.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: With those, sorry, Balaclavas, I presume.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 41:17
  Speaker 14: He's written this several days after those protests that we
• 41:21
  Speaker 14: saw across the coastline of England.
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: And he said that all face coverings should be banned.
• 41:27
  Speaker 14: Now, this has lit up talkback radio here this morning, Peter.
• 41:32
  Speaker 8: Many people are dialing in their thoughts.
• 41:35
  Speaker 14: Many supportive that face coverings should be banned here and
• 41:38
  Speaker 14: that the UK should follow many other European countries who
• 41:42
  Speaker 14: do the same, that you are not allowed to wear
• 41:44
  Speaker 14: face coverings. And interestingly, In Nottingham, face coverings, if particular
• 41:50
  Speaker 14: people with special powers such as police think that you
• 41:54
  Speaker 14: should not be wearing a face covering or you could
• 41:56
  Speaker 14: be doing something wrong and that you are covering your face,
• 41:59
  Speaker 14: they will be asked to remove their face coverings. So
• 42:02
  Speaker 14: this is a debate that's really hotting up here, Peter,
• 42:05
  Speaker 14: and I expect we will see more of it in
• 42:07
  Speaker 14: the coming weeks and months.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do laugh it was only a couple of
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: years ago now that we all had to cover our faces.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Now there's a fight to uncover our faces. But anyway,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that was the pandemic. Just quickly, King Charles putting the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: writing out there, literally, about Harry and Meghan and what
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: they are not allowed to do despite returning back to
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the UK.
• 42:30
  Speaker 8: He is indeed, Peter.
• 42:31
  Speaker 14: There's been a letter penned on the King's direction that
• 42:35
  Speaker 14: states that they are to remain as non-working royals and
• 42:39
  Speaker 14: not to use their Royal Highness titles while they reside
• 42:44
  Speaker 14: here in the UK. And just quickly showing viewers here, Peter,
• 42:47
  Speaker 14: this was front page news today with the Daily Mail.
• 42:51
  Speaker 14: King puts Harry and Meghan in their place. It's a
• 42:53
  Speaker 14: bit wet here, as you can see, but the front
• 42:55
  Speaker 14: of the sun, my paper's wet.
• 42:57
  Speaker 8: Megxit means Megxit.
• 43:00
  Speaker 14: So this is really the king stamping his authority and
• 43:02
  Speaker 14: saying Meghan and Harry are back here but they will
• 43:05
  Speaker 14: not be working royals and they will not be using
• 43:07
  Speaker 14: her royal or his royal highness titles. So it's really
• 43:11
  Speaker 14: putting them in their box and it's unusual for the
• 43:13
  Speaker 14: king to come out and make such statements but he's
• 43:16
  Speaker 14: drawn a line in the sand and it looks like
• 43:18
  Speaker 14: they will be living here without.
• 43:21
  Speaker 8: All the glamour and royalty that comes with it, Peter.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: We'll see how quickly they try and change that. Thank you, Sophie.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Get out of the rain. We'll catch up with you
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: next week. Quick break after the break. A terrific panel.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about a whole lot of things. But what
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: about this push for uni students to have you pay
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: to give them concession cards as well as everything else?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Welcome back.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Let's get into it with my panel now, broadcaster Lucy
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Zellick and Sky News host Jamie Rogers. We'll start with
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: this university story. This is the students at university, I
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: might add, who want taxpayers to subsidise concession cards for medicines, healthcare,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: car rego, power bills, the whole box and dice for
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: every domestic student. Now, we already pay part of their
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: university costs, Lucy. And I thought if there were students
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: that were doing a tough low income, they got AusStudy
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: or its equivalent these days. I mean, when we give
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: pensioners a concession, they've at least paid taxes their whole lives.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: How does this stack up? Certainly doesn't stack up, Peter.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Good evening. Great to be with you.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: You know, I have this wonderful story from when I
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: was at university and I came in very late, well
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: past curfew. And my father, who's now a retired builder,
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: came home and he saw me stumbling up the street
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: and he rolled down his window as he was on
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: the way to work at five in the morning and said,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: if you can go out, you can go to uni, right?
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: So from there on, I knew very damn well what
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: the work ethic entailed. And we're now in a situation
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: where you mentioned AusStudy there. We also have Youth Allowance
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: and AbStudy and other schemes for students who are struggling
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: and on the poverty line. Yet you now have the
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: University of Australia's CEO coming out and screeching that we
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: need to give these concession passes to to students regardless
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: of their income and whether or not they're living with
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: their parents.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: How does that make economic sense?
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: If you want them to change their own economic standings,
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: how about you tell the vice chancellors who are averaging
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: a million dollars a year, more than Oxford University in the.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: UK, by the way, to trim back their pay packet.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: And if they have a problem with cost of living measures,
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: they need to take that up with the government of
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: the day.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Well, the students just do what we all did. I mean,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I had six jobs at one stage, all little part-timers.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Just get out there and do a bit of work.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: You can't study and work at the same time. Let's
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: go to the pretty upset public servants in Canberra, Jamie.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Departmental chiefs demanding that politicians be restricted from posting what
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: they call, quote, potentially harmful video clips. of their testimony
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: before Senate estimates. They don't want to see it on
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: social media. I have to say, if they don't answer
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: the question poorly, they won't end up on TikTok. But
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: if they look like idiots, they will.
• 46:09
  Speaker 11: I found this extraordinary, Peter. I was watching this at
• 46:12
  Speaker 11: the time in one of the Senate estimates where they said,
• 46:15
  Speaker 11: I hope this doesn't get clipped up and put onto
• 46:17
  Speaker 11: social media. And as one of the politicians and senators
• 46:21
  Speaker 11: did say, this is a public hearing. Everyone should be
• 46:23
  Speaker 11: able to watch it. And that's exactly it. The public
• 46:26
  Speaker 11: needs to be informed. And to your point, If you're
• 46:28
  Speaker 11: going to be out there with ridiculous answers and not
• 46:31
  Speaker 11: doing your job properly, then Australians deserve to know. And
• 46:34
  Speaker 11: the fact that they wanted captions to not be with
• 46:37
  Speaker 11: those videos or have the comments disabled as well, having
• 46:41
  Speaker 11: the comments turned off, which I know some politicians tend
• 46:43
  Speaker 11: to do during the election time, I noticed, it's a
• 46:46
  Speaker 11: way that Australians can interact with one another and also
• 46:49
  Speaker 11: have a direct line to their politician. I just think
• 46:52
  Speaker 11: it's extraordinary and an enormous overreach.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Jamie, what about this one? Victoria is belly up bankrupt,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: $ 200 billion in debt. It's got an overflowing prison. We've
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: got the mushroom cook, you know, the infamous woman who
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: killed her relatives. I know she's on appeal, but that's
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the conviction, killed her relatives, locked up for three life sentences.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: But she's going to get a Zempik paid for by
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: the taxpayers because she's fat. How's that work?
• 47:21
  Speaker 11: And she's a self-declared binge eater as well, Peter. This
• 47:24
  Speaker 11: is not a wellness retreat. And this is the second
• 47:27
  Speaker 11: inmate in Victoria that has been receiving Ozempic injections. It's
• 47:31
  Speaker 11: a slap in the face for the people that are
• 47:32
  Speaker 11: outside of prison that haven't done the wrong thing and
• 47:35
  Speaker 11: aren't locked up and have to pay for their own
• 47:37
  Speaker 11: weight loss jabs. We should not be rewarding prisoners and
• 47:40
  Speaker 11: making life even remotely easy behind bars because they're there
• 47:44
  Speaker 11: for a reason. And Erin Patterson is a convicted triple murderer. Now,
• 47:48
  Speaker 11: I know that some people have said it's to do
• 47:50
  Speaker 11: with preventing type 2 diabetes and then she becomes a
• 47:53
  Speaker 11: bit more of a burden on the Victorian taxpayer. But
• 47:56
  Speaker 11: as I said, Peter, it's not a wellness retreat. You've
• 47:58
  Speaker 11: got no one in there to impress. I don't understand
• 48:00
  Speaker 11: why you're getting Ozempic paid for by the taxpayer.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Just a quick one, Lucy. The government's not telling us
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: how much they're spending for these youth climate travellers to
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: get around the world. I mean, the places they have
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: been are staggering, all on our taxpayer coin and, of course,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: with ever-increasing emissions.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Have this government no shame? It's extraordinary, isn't it, Peter?
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: And you really have to question, are we running an
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: economy or a clown show here? And with Chris Bowen
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: spearheading all of this and wanting to jettison us into
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: this future of climate diplomacy, I can tell you that
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: this is on a highway to hell.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: It's been a shocker of headlines for you ladies today.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Let's hope we get some better news tomorrow.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: That's it for me. Have a good night tonight. Here
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: is James McPherson filling in for Andrew Bolt.