Latest / PCMA Convene Podcast / Convene Series: How Events Can Foster Belonging in Divided Times: A Conversation with Cameron Curtis
Transcript
- Convene Podcast Transcript How Events Can Foster Belonging in Divided Times: A Conversation with Cameron Curtis *Note: the transcript is AI generated, excuse typos and inaccuracies Magdalina Atanassova: Welcome to this Season eight episode of the Convene Podcast, brought to you by Visit Anaheim. Today’s guest is someone who brings bold leadership, powerful advocacy, and deep industry experience to everything she does. Cameron Curtis is the Founder and Chief Innovator of C2 Association Strategies. With more than 25 years of experience in association management, Cameron is known for her unwavering commitment to people-first leadership, inclusive strategy, and transforming challenges into opportunities. In this episode, we talk about what belonging really means, why DEI is still essential even when it feels risky, and how event professionals can design safer, more inclusive experiences—no matter the political climate. We start now. Cameron Curtis: I think we're seeing a real impact in the U.S. specifically, if you have an international meeting, we have international attendees that are afraid to travel here. You know, not just people from the LGBTQIA2 + community, but people who come from countries like South America, people with brown skin, because of what's happening currently in the US and, you know, in terms of deportations and backlash against people who are immigrants, whether they are here legally or not. So that's. That's one thing I think we're also seeing. The LGBTQ community is afraid to travel even within the US or, you know, we're very US centric based, but it's also happening overseas as well, and there are still countries that have the death penalty if you are LGBTQ plus, which, you know, in 2025 is really. I can't even understand why we're still. While we're still in that space, but we are seeing a huge impact on meetings and events and attendance. We're also seeing, on the positive, people are wanting to create more inclusive spaces and having the conversation about how do we keep people safe from the moment they land in the destination at the airport to when they travel to the venue and then back again and home. And so it's an interesting conversation to have because we used to just say, okay, come to our event, and it's at the so and so hotel in such and such city, or convention center in such and such city. We never really had to think about that safety piece from the moment they're in the city or land in the destination to when they. They leave. So really pushing the boundaries and the limits as to what does inclusive mean and what does it mean to keep people both physically and psychologically safe when they're attending our events? Magdalina Atanassova: Which brings me to the question, what's the difference between saying you're welcome here and actually feeling like you belong? Cameron Curtis: Yeah, so I talk about this a lot. And when the LGBTQ or, sorry, the LGBT Meeting Professionals association redid our vision. It is a global events community where all are accepted, equal and Belong. And we went back and forth probably for a good hour and a half as to whether it should be belong or welcome, Belong or welcome. And really, if you think about it, I can say to someone, you're welcome here, right? You're welcome, come in, you're welcome. But if I step in and I don't feel like I belong, it's a very different thing. And so it's really thinking about creating, you know, we can do our very best to create the welcoming spaces, but if we're not collaborating with all of our attendees and asking for the feedback and what will help you feel like you really belong at our events, then we're doing a disservice to everyone involved, even even the organizations and the planners. Belonging is really, when I step into that, you know, I feel like I'm on an equal playing field with everybody who is there. Right. It goes back to that. Diversity, equity, inclusion. It is, you know, if I have accessibility needs or if I'm LGBTQ plus, it is really finding the best way to support every person, every demographic, anybody who is coming to your event, regardless of where they come from, what their background is. It's, as soon as you step into that, that space, it should be sort of like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Right. You step in and it's sort of, oh, my gosh, this is an amazing experience. And I feel sort of surrounded by people who are like minded and that, that I really fit. Right. And that goes back to. You feel both psychologically and physically safe in that space. Magdalina Atanassova: You have some examples of how event planners can communicate. So ask the questions and also then communicate back. Cameron Curtis: Yeah, you know, I think we're seeing it in some ways. You know, a lot of organizers are now putting menus in their apps, right. They're asking the question. I think from an events perspective, we're used to asking a bunch of questions on a registration form, but then not necessarily doing anything with the data that we get and the answers. And so I always say, if you're going to ask the question, you have to then be prepared to meet the needs or do your very best to meet them. In some instances, if you're in a property that, you know, can't meet all of the needs, then again, communicating that to the attendee, listen, this is everything that we've done to support you, to help you feel that you belong, but here are some of the things that we couldn't do for whatever reason. Right. There are fire marshal laws and things like that. And so it really is asking the Question and then communicating. I think a simple thing that it's starting to get better is when pronouns became sort of common use. People would ask for pronouns on registration, but then you'd show up and you'd get your badge and your pronouns wouldn't be on your badge. I'm like, well, why didn't you ask what my pronouns were if you weren't going to use them? So I think we've come a long way, but I do think it's really important to ask the question. And if somebody has something that is not typical, the typical answer that you get, then reaching out to them and getting more information. Because when you do that and when you communicate directly with someone and say, I see you, I understand. I want to make this the best possible experience for you. Here are limitations. What can we do to best support you? I mean, that person immediately will feel that they belong when they get to that. That event, because you've done everything within your power to make it that safe space for them. Magdalina Atanassova: People are still very afraid of getting those wrong. Not only pronouns, but in general getting things wrong. Right. So how can they. And they. Event planners, how can they overcome the fear? What can they do about it? Cameron Curtis: Yeah. So LGBT MPA, we have this series that we've done. It's beyond the binary. And basically we created kind of a safe space to talk about basically what it means to be beyond the binary. And when we first did it, we really thought we were going to get a lot of questions about inclusive event design. And it really was. My niece is now my nephew, and the pronouns are they, them. And I'm in my 50s and it's been ground into my head as a child that you can't say, you know, because they, them is singular. So they is going to the store. Right. In. In our mind, that sounds so wrong. But. But that we have to respect the pronouns. I also use the example that my name is Cameron, I am a cisgender, straight white woman, and my pronouns are she, her. But growing up, Cameron was traditionally a boy's name, and I was always on the boys list. And so. And still today I get dear Mr. Curtis. So when pronouns were first introduced, I thought, my gosh, this is amazing. I can finally tell people that I was she, her. And I will. I'll stop getting Mr. Curtis. So if you think about it that way, it really is just respecting how someone wants to be. It's. It's no different than saying Mr. Mrs. Miss, Ms. Right. Whatever. It's. It really is respecting how someone wants to be seen and spoken to and recognized. I think I like to say we should all assume positive intent. So if you make the mistake and someone. Someone's pronouns are they, them, and you accidentally say she because it's someone that you've known for a long time and it's. Or you use their, their new name or whatever, it's making the, making the effort. And then once you realize, stopping and saying, I'm really sorry, I meant to say they, them, it's just. It's very hard for me and I'm trying really hard to say the right thing and recognize you as who you are. So again, I think on both sides, we have to understand that just as any older generation or the generations before us, like, we have issues with our parents and our parents had issues before that. This is just one of those times where we're learning something new. And it's harder for us as we get older to learn something new, but making the very best effort to. To say the right thing. Magdalina Atanassova: And yet we're in this point in time where we are all learning. But then all these things happen in, in the US and now many organizations cannot even say DEI. What can they do? Cameron Curtis: You know, I think we saw an initial swing away from DEI where organizations were like, we can't say it, especially if they get in the US Government funding in some way, shape or form or if they have DEI programs. I think one of the things that our government didn't take into account, that diversity isn't just what we look like, our ethnicity, our backgrounds, our gender identity. It is diversity of thought and opinion and experience. And all of those things help to make our events more robust. Right. We're in the business of bringing people together so that they can spark that next idea. And so in the beginning, people were really like. And there are still lots of companies that you can't say DEI. They're using things like conscious inclusion, which, I mean, I think we should all be consciously inclusive. I feel like that's something that we're taught when we're young, is to consciously include people. So it doesn't that it's not the same. But I am seeing a swing back where organizations are starting to say diversity, equity, and inclusion again because they're realizing that it really does make a big difference. Without diversity, equity and inclusion, everything would be boring, right? Like, it would be so boring if we all were exactly the same. We're like robots sitting around a table, you know, beeping and whatever, right? But that's what I think of when you take away Diversity, equity, and inclusion, because we all bring something unique to the table. I think organizations are starting. Starting to see that. But I do think, you know, it's hard for organizations that rely on government funding specifically, because typically, a lot of times it's healthcare. Right. And so they're getting that money so that they can provide grant funding for research grants so that people can find the next cure for cancer or whatever. And so it's a very difficult decision that they have to weigh. And so I can understand why in some instances, having to pull back. Right, you have to pull back to sort of save the thing that is most important. But I'm. I don't know, considering what's been happening just the last couple days in the U.S. i like to say I'm hopeful, but then sometimes I'm like, I don't know. I. It's. It's really hard to be hopeful and not feel despair. Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah, I can totally relate. I believe that's how we all feel. Do you see any opportunity in these types of. Cameron Curtis: You know, I think just like any polarizing time, people are really pulling together. You know, I. I was part of the World Pride Parade just a few weeks ago in D.C. and, you know, we didn't know, like, what the turnout would be, and there were. It was so many people, and. And it was. It was really amazing to sort of be in D.C. and. And watch and be a part of that. I think we're seeing a lot of allies who are standing up. Right. I think, you know, that it's more important than ever that if you are an ally, it is our responsibility to stand up and protect and speak out for our friends who maybe can't do it for themselves. You know, even before all of this was happening, there were still people in the LGBTQ community who would come to events and say, you know, oh, please don't take my picture because I'm not out at work, or I'm still not out to my face. And that's just like last year. And so understanding that also being an ally means being an ally whether the times are hard or good, because there are always people out there that need our support. And so I think this is the time for us to stand up and say, enough. And we're not going to stand by and watch you sort of take away the rights that we all have and deserve, because you are, you know, from a different population, like, a different ethnicity, that you're not white. You know, I think. I think that's. That's the. Hopefully, as I didn't Sound very hopeful when I said that, but. Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah, I get it. These are trying times. So for the events industry, we often get stuck on the question of destination boycotts. And just because you mentioned D.C. and. Cameron Curtis: What, you know, word pride. Magdalina Atanassova: So what's more constructive or impactful way to handle event location decisions, you feel? Cameron Curtis: Yeah. So we know that boycotts don't work, right? People tried boycotting. What we. What I like to say and what we sort of talk about at LGBT Media Professionals association is send your RFP to the destinations where you. You cannot go because of their state legislation or their country laws. Send the rfp, get the proposal, and then go back to them and say your destination and the venues are a perfect fit for our annual conference. But because of the laws in your state or country, we cannot bring our meeting to you because what's been happening is people are just. They're not sending the RFPs, so those destinations don't have any idea the business that they're losing. So that they're not then armed with information to be able to go to the state legislature and say, hey, we've lost, you know, 200 meetings this year because of our legislation, and that equals, you know, $10 million in economic impact just for. Just for, like, the surrounding areas. That doesn't count. Sort of the. The ripple effect of, like, all of the restaurants, people who stay after, and that kind of thing, because if they don't have that information, then. Then they can't then fight on their end. And I think, you know, the. The unfortunate thing is that there are a lot of really, really great cities in states or countries that have discriminatory legislation. You know, we like to say it's a blueberry. There are blueberries in a field of strawberries. And, you know, it's a shame to. To penalize those destinations because they have no control over the laws that are made in their states. So it is. Make sure they have the information. Make sure they know that they're a great fit. Make sure they know the economic impact of your conference, and sure that they know that you would come there, you would book your conference if it weren't for the laws in their states, because that is how you. You really. And it's not really a boycott. It is really providing the information necessary so that they know exactly what they're losing because of the laws. Magdalina Atanassova: That's a great idea. I hope more event planners start doing that. And what about vendors or venues that, you know, you've already booked, you've chosen the destination, and so forth? But the Vendors and venues are not up to speed with, you know, DEI practices. So how can you work with them in this case? Cameron Curtis: Yeah, you know, I think that's hard, too. And just like a point about that, you know, some conferences we book really far out because they're large citywide’s, for example. And I think it's really important when your attendees, you know, organizations get back from attendees, why are we going to that state? Why are we going to that country? They have terrible, you know, laws against women, LGTBQ. I think it's really important to communicate to your attendees that we booked this before all of this happened. If we were to cancel this meeting, this is what the cost would be to the organization. And in order to keep your dues lower and registration rates lower, we can't afford to pay this cancellation fee. So we have to go to this destination. But we're going to do everything that we can to make sure that you have a very safe, both, again, psychologically and physical, safe experience at our conference. I think when it comes to the venues, I was talking to someone, we were speaking at IMX Frankfurt a couple months ago, and they came up and they said, you know, I have this venue and we do all gender restrooms. And, you know, we wanted them to change the signs and they couldn't because legally they have to have a male and a female restroom. And so I think it is working with the venue to understand why something can't be done and then coming up with a workaround. In this case, it was like, we have another restroom. You know, if it's a single, right? Sometimes it's a single. We can say that's the, you know, all gender restroom. But really working with and understanding what the legal implications are, because the venues have to comply, right? There's no choice. So understanding what their legal implications are, working with them to say, I think we all have to be creative, right? And by nature, event professionals. We are creative. We're in the business of, of creating amazing experiences. So it's sitting down at the table and having the conversation and having it early on to say, you know, okay, now that this is happening, here's the information that I need. How can we create this best space so that our attendees who have accessibility needs or LGBTQ have the same experience as everybody else? And again, it all comes down to communication and then communicating it out to your attendees. I always say that at the point at which you feel you're communicating too much, it still is not enough, you know, and the communication needs to be, you know, like, not Communicating, just to communicate, but it needs to be relevant and timely and that kind of thing. But I think that's the key. Magdalina Atanassova: What do you feel the events industry still needs to push harder on, to. Cameron Curtis: Make change, to drive change Again, I think what we talked about in terms of the boycotts and sending the RFPs and then saying, we can't come to your destination, I think it is. There are places that have all gender restrooms, and it works just fine. I don't understand why it's so difficult. In some cases, it requires renovation and that kind of thing, which we understand. But really, I think we need to see the effort, and we are seeing that. I don't want it to sound like we're not seeing the effort, but we need to see more of an effort. And I think organizations like PCMA and EIC and IAE and MPI and ICA and all, National Coalition of Black Meeting Professionals, LGBT Meeting Professionals association, we all come together at the table, at the event Industry Council. I think together, you know, as it, it's very cliche, but we're stronger together and we have a bigger voice, you know, out of, out of many, one voice. So I think, and, and it is happening. I'd like to see it happen, like, quicker. Like, I'm very, I'm a very impatient person by nature. I think event planners are, are typically impatient. But I think, you know, it is, it is happening. We do have a voice. I think we need to be stronger in our lobbying efforts. But I also recognize that the times that we're in, people don't feel physically safe. You know, we've had the shooting in Minnesota, and so it is really balancing speaking out and understanding what the ramifications could be. I was, I was telling a friend of mine when right after the Trump administration came into office this year, I went to post something on social media about the LGBTQ community. And it was the first time that I paused before I posted because I thought, oh, this could somehow come back against me. And I own my own business, and I have, you know, people that I am responsible for paying their salaries, and, you know, I have clients that I'm responsible to and a family. And, and I really, I, I, I was a very short pause because I'm like, no, but this is, I'm an ally and I need to stand up and speak out. But that was the first time that I ever felt like I could be, like something, something really bad could happen and not just, you know, like, like physically somebody could come after me. And that's a Weird space to be. Magdalina Atanassova: In, being on the other side of the world, you know, not living in the U.S. my first reaction was like, oh, come on, people, don't stop. You know, not addressing DEI, running away from the words and, you know, complying with that list of forbidden words and phrases. And I feel that was the reaction outside. But I also understand how being in the country, that makes you feel very uncertain. Also now it has turned the other way around. Right. For people outside the US Being vocal, it turns out, is also not a good idea, especially if you have business. Cameron Curtis: In the U.S. absolutely. I mean, I like to say, and, you know, I think the countries who are standing up sort of against our policies, especially as it relates to tariffs. Right. I think that that's a good thing. Right. I think we in the US need to know that we can't. We can't do it alone. Right. We're not an island. Just as in everything that we do in our lives, we need to rely on our allies, and collaboration is incredibly important. And so I think what I'm seeing from other European heads of state and Canada and them sort of standing together to say, and also they're saying, we see those of you in the US who are not aligned with what's going on and recognizing that we all don't agree with what's happening, don't lump us all in together. I think that that is really important right now because the US has always relied on our allies. And although we've always thought of ourselves as the world superpower, the top country in the world, I think it's very clear that you only get to that place because of your friends and allies. Right. Where, again, we all have to stand together. And so I think at this moment in time for us to sort of be alone, I think it's an important lesson for people to learn. And as we're recording this, our Senate passed the big beautiful bill, which is the official name of it, which is going to hurt a lot of people in the country, specifically people in states that supported this administration. So it'll be really interesting to see what happens when they realize that the policies weren't going to hurt people like me. They're going to hurt everybody. So we're just waiting and watching, holding our breath. Some of us are thinking of moving. So, you know, unsettling and interesting time that we're living in. And that's, for me, again, a straight white woman. It's so much worse for my friends who are in, you know, marginalized communities that are now feeling like they have to hide. And that makes me really, really sad. Magdalina Atanassova: Was there anything we didn't mention we should before we wrap up? Cameron Curtis: I mean, I think again, it's just if you're an ally, we have to stand up, right, and speak out and we have to do it together because there's strength in numbers. I think the meetings industry is trying really hard to do that. I mean, I'm seeing it. I was at Convening Leaders, I was at edUcon, I was at MPI WEC, I was at IMEX. I think, you know, all of the organizations are really pulling together to try and support everyone as it relates to, I mean, the global events community. Think of all of the people that we touch and all of the industries and professions that we have an impact on by bringing people together. I think sometimes we forget that, you know, the job is logistics, heads and beds, content, you know, we're providing food and beverage. But we forget about the fact that the doctors who come to our meetings might have the next cure for some rare illness, or the engineers who come together might create a new earthquake resistant concrete or, you know, I mean, I think it's like understanding the impact that we have beyond just creating the space. It is through us, we create change. And I think that we need to now more than ever remember that, because that's the hope that we're hanging onto. Right? By bringing all of those people together, we are as an industry and that means everyone from the AV tech to the housekeepers at the hotels, to the front desk, to the meeting professionals, to the CEOs of companies, we are creating that change and we have a very big voice and now is the time to use it. Magdalina Atanassova: That's a great end to our conversation. Thank you, Cameron, so much for being on the podcast. Cameron Curtis: Thank you so much for having me. It was so nice to meet you and I appreciate the space to have this conversation. It's really important, so thank you. Magdalina Atanassova: Remember to subscribe to the Convene Podcast on your favorite listening platform to stay updated with our latest episodes. We want to thank our sponsor, Visit Anaheim. Go to VisitAnaheim.org/meetings to learn more. For further industry insights from the Convene team, head over to PCMA.org/convene. My name is Maggie. Stay inspired. Keep inspiring. And until next time.