Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #653 Behavioural Strategies for ADHD Kids

Transcript

#653 Behavioural Strategies for ADHD Kids · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now the things that motivate intrinsically, a feeling of I
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  Speaker 2: can do this, I'm capable and competent, I like the
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  Speaker 2: people that I'm there, A feeling of relatedness and I'm
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  Speaker 2: choosing this for myself autonomy and.
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  Speaker 1: Now here's the scars of our show my mum and
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  Speaker 1: dad today.
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  Speaker 3: Unfortunately this is Happy Families.
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  Speaker 2: Kylie couldn't be with me, but I'm really grateful for
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  Speaker 2: a question that has come through from Aaron, who says, Hi,
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  Speaker 2: Justin and team firstly love your work. Have been listening
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  Speaker 2: for years now and you guys just keep on giving.
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  Speaker 2: We try to give as much as we can, Aron,
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  Speaker 2: so thanks for noticing. The question though is as follows,
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  Speaker 2: our family is on an earlish journey of an ADHD
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  Speaker 2: diagnosis for our eldest son, eight years old. Erin says,
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  Speaker 2: I'm a health professional myself and have been doing lots
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  Speaker 2: of reading about the behavioral strategies for helping kids with
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  Speaker 2: their ADHD challenges. So much of the material talks about
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  Speaker 2: the effectiveness of rewards on the basis of the fact
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  Speaker 2: that ADHD is a neurological condition which lacks some of
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  Speaker 2: the chemicals in the reward circuitry of the brain. They
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  Speaker 2: explain that tasks that require more effort and concentration and
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  Speaker 2: persistence have a relative lack of rewarding feelings, so ADHD
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  Speaker 2: kids often find these tasks difficult. This also goes some
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  Speaker 2: way to explaining why kids with ADHD argue and push
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  Speaker 2: back so much if they get a big response from someone,
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  Speaker 2: because this reaction in itself is rewarding, even if it's
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  Speaker 2: a negative reaction. So one of the strategies recommended is
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  Speaker 2: to make non preferred tasks, that is, tasks someone doesn't
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  Speaker 2: want to do more immediately rewarding, either via praise, encouragement,
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  Speaker 2: conceptual rewards, or physical rewards like stickers and prizes. I've
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  Speaker 2: listened to your opinions and Alfie Cohnes in your podcast
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  Speaker 2: on rewards and punishment and fundamentally agree and very much
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  Speaker 2: want for my children and this son in particular, to
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  Speaker 2: find ways to be self motivated and fulfilled. But I
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  Speaker 2: wondered what your educated opinion or what research might say
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  Speaker 2: about whether in the circumstances of ADHD and a relative
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  Speaker 2: lack of feel good intrinsic reward brain chemistry might mean
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  Speaker 2: the playing field is somewhat different for these kids. Given
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  Speaker 2: the previous interest in all your ADHD stuff, I hope
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  Speaker 2: you could do a podcast episode on this one. Looking
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  Speaker 2: forward to hearing from you, Erin so Erin really appreciate
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  Speaker 2: the email. Let's go through a handful of things over
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  Speaker 2: the next five to eight minutes and see what we
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  Speaker 2: can come up with. The first thing that I want
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  Speaker 2: to emphasize is, and you've labeled this correctly in your email.
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  Speaker 2: You've said, I've been looking at the behavioral strategies that
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  Speaker 2: people have written about the behavioral strategies, and so there
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  Speaker 2: are different ways that we can come at things like
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  Speaker 2: ADHD and autism and other neurodivergent experiences or realities that
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  Speaker 2: we're dealing with. The first thing that I want to
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  Speaker 2: highlight is your point about reading behavioral strategies, so we
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  Speaker 2: can come at this from all kinds of different angles.
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  Speaker 2: Behavioral strategies are the most popular. That's where most of
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  Speaker 2: the research lies, and that's where most of the programs
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  Speaker 2: and most of the therapy that you'll do sits. It's in
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  Speaker 2: the behavioral realm with a focus on rewards. In other words,
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  Speaker 2: what can I do to enhance intrinsic We're not going
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  Speaker 2: to enhance intrinsic interest, so what can I do to
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  Speaker 2: make something extrinsically rewarding since it's just not intrinsically rewarding
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  Speaker 2: at all. My approach is non behavioral. That is, I'm
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  Speaker 2: trying to move away from this focus on external rewards
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  Speaker 2: because we're playing in the shallow end of the motivation continuum.
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  Speaker 2: But we've got external motivation at one end and intrinsic
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  Speaker 2: motivation at the other end, and there's a whole lot
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  Speaker 2: of stages along the way. All of these behavioral approaches
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  Speaker 2: much much about saying, how can we manipulate the environment
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  Speaker 2: so that it's externally go to orient kids towards doing
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  Speaker 2: something even though they still don't really have any desire
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  Speaker 2: to do it. And Aaron, that's really at the heart
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  Speaker 2: of your question, because you wrapped up by saying you
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  Speaker 2: trying to find ways to compensate for a relative lack
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  Speaker 2: of feel good intrinsic reward brain chemistry. So that brings
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  Speaker 2: me to the second point to highlight, and this is
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  Speaker 2: whether you've got an ADHD child or not, And that
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  Speaker 2: is that there is stuff in life that we all
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  Speaker 2: have to deal with that is not intrinsically feel good.
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  Speaker 2: Doing the dishes is not intrinsically feel good. Getting up
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  Speaker 2: on time for work not intrinsically.
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  Speaker 3: Feel good sort of stuff.
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  Speaker 2: The things that we do for their own sake, they
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  Speaker 2: are intrinsically motivating. Things we do because we know that
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  Speaker 2: we should, or because we value them and we know
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  Speaker 2: that they're important and we appreciate having them in our lives.
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  Speaker 2: They fall into other places on that motivation continuum. I
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  Speaker 2: guess what all of this means is when we're dealing
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  Speaker 2: with the child with ADHD, or with any any other
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  Speaker 2: neurodivergent condition, or times when you're just dealing with a child, generally,
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  Speaker 2: we've got to look at what we can do to
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  Speaker 2: satisfy the needs that they have to move them in
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  Speaker 2: the direction where there's going to be a level of
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  Speaker 2: motivation that doesn't rely on us pushing and rewarding. So
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  Speaker 2: self determination theory is the name of the theory that
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  Speaker 2: sits squarely at the center of my approach to dealing
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  Speaker 2: with ADHD.
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  Speaker 3: That theory says.
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  Speaker 2: That we will have high levels of motivation that is
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  Speaker 2: intrinsic motivation, or at least a deeper level of motivation
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  Speaker 2: than the superficial external I'm doing it because you're dangling
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  Speaker 2: a carrot or brandishing a stick motivation. What we want
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  Speaker 2: to do is we want to move kids along that
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  Speaker 2: continuum from what's called external motivation to something called interjected motivation.
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  Speaker 2: That's not really healthy, but it's better than external motivation.
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  Speaker 2: Interjective motivation is where you're doing it because you know
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  Speaker 2: you're supposed to, but nobody's making you. And that's a
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  Speaker 2: better form of motivation generally than external but something that's
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  Speaker 2: even better than interjected motivation. As we move along, motivation
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  Speaker 2: continuum to some slightly deeper water is what you would
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  Speaker 2: call identified motivation. This is when your child or you say,
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  Speaker 2: this is an important thing.
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  Speaker 3: To do, and I value it. It matters.
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  Speaker 2: The next level of motivation as we go into even
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  Speaker 2: deeper motivation waters is what we call integrated motivation. This
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  Speaker 2: is where we do it because we know that we
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  Speaker 2: value it. It's integrated into our identity. I do this
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  Speaker 2: because I want to be healthy. I do this because
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  Speaker 2: I value cleanliness. I do this because it's part of
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  Speaker 2: me being a good person. It's part of who I am,
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  Speaker 2: And then we get to intrinsic motivation, where we say
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  Speaker 2: I do this because of the joy of doing it,
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  Speaker 2: because it in and of itself is an end for me.
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  Speaker 3: That's kind of complicated, but.
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  Speaker 2: It's really important when we're dealing with neurodivergence because while
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  Speaker 2: ever we're operating at the reward level, which is where
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  Speaker 2: most behavioral strategies are focused, we're focused on that shallow
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  Speaker 2: end of the continuum. So what moves us along the
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  Speaker 2: continuum into the deeper motivational waters.
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  Speaker 3: Three things. The first is a sense of autonomy, and
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  Speaker 3: I think as I consider our own experience with our
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  Speaker 3: child who has some of these additional needs, I think
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  Speaker 3: that that may be the most important thing of all.
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  Speaker 2: We've learned that the more we step back and the
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  Speaker 2: more that we let her I guess, not dictate terms
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  Speaker 2: so much, but work within some reasonable frameworks at her
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  Speaker 2: own pace, in her own way, we found that she's
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  Speaker 2: motivated to do most things most of the time, so
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  Speaker 2: long as we can be patient with her and let
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  Speaker 2: her do it her way. Autonomy is at the heart
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  Speaker 2: of this. Every time we start to get coercive, every
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  Speaker 2: time we start to get controlling, every time we start
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  Speaker 2: to push that little eight year old to.
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  Speaker 3: Do things our way and to do them.
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  Speaker 2: Now, what we find is that motivation decreases, and so
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  Speaker 2: toutors compliance, and subsequently so does well being. The second
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  Speaker 2: central element is competence. Now, competence needs a fragile When
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  Speaker 2: a child doesn't do things well, they shy away from
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  Speaker 2: doing them at all. Why because no one likes to
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  Speaker 2: be hopeless at stuff. When a child does things quite well,
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  Speaker 2: their motivation will be high. Why Because they can do it.
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  Speaker 2: They approach it rather than avoid it. They feel good
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  Speaker 2: about doing it. Our job, therefore, as parents with a
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  Speaker 2: child who has ADHD, is to say, how can we
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  Speaker 2: create structures here that provide you with the support you need?
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  Speaker 2: There's going to be accountability, but there has to be support.
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  Speaker 3: How do we help you to get this done?
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  Speaker 2: And the last basic psychological need is relatedness. That is,
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  Speaker 2: the more I like the people that I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: be hanging around with while I do this thing, the
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  Speaker 2: more likely it is that I'm going to go and
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  Speaker 2: do it and do it reasonably well. The things that
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  Speaker 2: motivate intrinsically, or at least at an integrated or identified level,
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  Speaker 2: those things are a feeling of I can do this,
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  Speaker 2: I'm capable and competent. I like the people that I'm there,
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  Speaker 2: a feeling of relatedness and I'm choosing this for myself autonomy. Now,
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  Speaker 2: my new book, which comes out in April, is called
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  Speaker 2: The Parenting Revolution, and Erin the entire book is all
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  Speaker 2: about this style of parenting, need supportive parenting. In addition,
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  Speaker 2: in the Happy Family's web shop, we have a handful
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  Speaker 2: of products all about ADHD, a couple of webinars that
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  Speaker 2: I've done that have been very, very popular, and newsflash,
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  Speaker 2: in the next few weeks, keep an eye on your
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  Speaker 2: email because we're going to be letting you know about
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  Speaker 2: a brand new course all about ADHD that helps to
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  Speaker 2: move away from the behavioral approach and move towards a
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  Speaker 2: need supportive approach that will help your child to find
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  Speaker 2: motivation and well being even in things that they might
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  Speaker 2: not have otherwise been motivated for.
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  Speaker 3: Unless they could get an external reward.
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  Speaker 2: That's what the whole course is all about, and it's
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  Speaker 2: going to be really helpful. Erin. I hope that this
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  Speaker 2: podcast has given you a little bit of food for thought.
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  Speaker 2: The ideas that I've shared take a lot of trial
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  Speaker 2: and error. They require us as parents to really be
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  Speaker 2: on our game and to make sure that we're setting
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  Speaker 2: the environment up in a way that.
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  Speaker 3: Works for our child.
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  Speaker 2: But hopefully with the little bit that I've shared with
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  Speaker 2: you just now to move you in the right direction
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  Speaker 2: and help you to start to think about, experiment with,
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  Speaker 2: and play with.
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  Speaker 3: Some of these ideas.
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  Speaker 2: In April next year, the book comes out sometime in
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  Speaker 2: the next month or so, keep an eye on your
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  Speaker 2: email for the ADHD course. I think you're going to
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  Speaker 2: love it and hopefully with all of that, we've answered
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  Speaker 2: your question and helped to make your family a little
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  Speaker 2: bit happier. Tomorrow, on The Happy Family's Podcast, I have
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a chat with dr Anthea Rhodes talking about the latest
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: findings from the Royal Children's Hospital Health Poll Kids summer
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: water safety. It's a really important conversation. I'm looking forward
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: to that, and later in the week we're going to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: talk about balancing family values and routines with visiting grandparents
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: who have different ideas about what the kids can and
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: can't do, pro tacking the big issues. On The Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families Podcast, we appreciate Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. He's
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: our producer. He does a great job in making the
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: podcast sound great. Thank you, Justin. We also appreciate Craig Bruce,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: our executive producer, for more and fo about the stuff
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: that we've talked about today. Keep an eye on your email,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: drive to the Happy Family's newsletter, or visit us at
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: doctor Justin Carson's Happy Families on Facebook.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Back tomorrow with more on the Happy Families podcast.