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It's Not My Neck · Not Right Now

• 0:00
  I was on the boy mom chat for school, and the boys had to wear a tie for the science fair. And people were like, "Oh my God, how do you tie a tie?"
• 0:08
  And this mom sent out an instruction diagram, and I was like, "How about you send that to my kid?" I'm like, "I am not tying a tie. It's not, uh, my neck. I'm not doing this."
• 0:16
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this. We'll be talking about/crashing out over topics like... TikTok time limits and the collapse of local news.
• 0:33
  Have you done your homework, and have I remembered to ask you if you've done your homework? Another existential question. It's not an advice show.
• 0:40
  It's a you're not alone, and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kinda show. I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches. And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important Not Important.
• 0:51
  You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website, notrightnow.show..show.
• 0:58
  And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet, and then drop us a nice little five-star review.
• 1:06
  And reminder, you can send questions or feedback to questions@notrightnow.show. [upbeat music] Do you wanna hear a funny baseball story that you'll- Of course... like the different aspects of? Yeah.
• 1:24
  So first of all, I was going through the bin. We have a bin at our house of stuff that Steve's parents sends us over the years- Ugh...
• 1:31
  that we don't know what to do with, you know, just in case they come over and we have to, you know, put it all out quickly.
• 1:38
  And I was going through it 'cause I was taking stock of what jewelry I wear and don't wear, and I found the motherload of all of Steve's old baseball cards- Mm... and Star Wars cards, and Garbage Pail Kids cards. Mm-hmm.
• 1:51
  Like, binders, and binders, and binders. And so anyway, so this morning I was at Sauna Club talking to my unicycling friend Kyle, and I told him about this. [laughs] Kyle S- is my favorite. [laughs] He's great.
• 2:04
  Also, he is, like, a true community leader. Like, no joke, he leads this great group in Evanston- For sure... called CASE that represents kids who have special needs. Mm-hmm.
• 2:13
  Anyway, so I told Kyle about the motherload, and he said that for some neighborhood, maybe, like, the block party or something like that, some neighbor was giving out baseball cards as kind of a gag, and he pulled one that was worth a lot of money, hundreds of dollars.
• 2:27
  And I said, "Well, who was it?" And he said, actually what made it valuable is that it was a basketball card.
• 2:33
  And it wasn't the player that made it valuable, it was that the Menendez brothers were sitting on the sidelines of this game. Ugh. And that, and apparently that's a valuable card.
• 2:44
  And he was like, "Do you know who the Menendez brothers are?" And I was like, "Hello, am I a '90s child? Of course I know who they are." But yeah, I was like, "I've never heard of that before."
• 2:51
  Never heard of a card being valuable because of which murderer was sitting on the sidelines. Correct. Pick your, pick your murderer. That's a really great question. That's, I, yeah, I don't know.
• 3:00
  I was a collector, but not that hardcore. I've got some still. I've got a Griffey that's very early that I love. I don't care what it's worth. I just loved watching Ken Griffey. Henry recently got into, into cards.
• 3:11
  He's really into them, and Oliver browses. Now that they're, like, obsessed, they're, it's, they're more interested in it, but they don't give a flying fuck about old players, though, like everything else. No.
• 3:21
  Well, Paul has some app, and I don't know what it is. I guess I should find out in case it's harvesting, you know, his information. I'm sure it is. Mm-hmm.
• 3:28
  But there's some app that you can just use to take pictures of the card and it'll tell you how much it, it's worth. And there's some- Why do we have one thing? K- you know? [laughs] Right?
• 3:36
  The funny thing is that Kyle, Uni Kyle, the unicycling friend- Mm-hmm... even the, the Menendez card, he was like, "I don't feel like doing whatever it is to redeem whatever this money is."
• 3:47
  Again, which is a good chunk- Right... of change, but- And yet... but Paul was so excited 'cause Paul s- has some, he found some Michael Jordan card, and he was excited 'cause it's worth $20. And I was like- Ooh...
• 3:57
  that's not, I, you couldn't get me to get up off my chair and put something in the mail for $20. Mm-hmm. So I'll find out what this app is, but yes. I don't want it, Claire. I want something- Yeah, yeah...
• 4:07
  that's not ruined.
• 4:08
  I wanted it 'cause I love the players, and I'm 1,000 obviously, but speaking of murderers, did I tell you, have I told that story of when we had Oliver and Dana was pregnant with our second, and keep in mind, each of our kids is 17 months apart, and that's when it became very clear that our, our li- little adorable beloved house in the, in the hills wasn't gonna cut it with two kids.
• 4:32
  One kid running around, it's totally fine. And so we're like, "Okay. Well, we need to, one, sell it, and two, either find a place to buy or a place to rent." Have I told you this story? No. Oh, great.
• 4:43
  And my friend, I love the transition of speaking of murderers, though. Yeah. It's very promising. You're welcome. So we're trying to figure out what to do, you know.
• 4:50
  We, we, we didn't have much money 'cause we spent all of our money making these fucking children through science, you know, jerking off in a closet on the side of La Cienega. And then
• 5:00
  we're like, okay, well, her mom and, and some family and friends were on the West Side, which if you know LA, a total nightmare, but most of our other friends ex- anyways, we're like, where the fuck do we go?
• 5:12
  And she's hormonal and can't decide what she wants to do and all this. I get it.
• 5:15
  We get this, our, and two of our very good friends are, are real estate agents, and most of the places we went and checked out, they would tell us, they would say, "Go to this," or, "Don't go to this," whatever it is.
• 5:26
  Well, I found one that was a steal. And- Mm-hmm... it was technically on the West Side, but not too far, so within striking distance of both sides. You'd hit some traffic.
• 5:39
  And it was close to Fox Studios and stuff like that. Seemed doable. Man, a steal. So we drive over, we go to check out this house, and it's pretty '80s, right? And it was- Mm-hmm... to purchase.
• 5:51
  Pretty '80s, but hey, man, if that's your problem and it's a steal in LA, and this is 15 years ago, you gotta take it. You, you can figure out '80s along the way. It's not like the floor is falling in.
• 6:01
  But anyways, we're driving around, we're looking, we're like, okay, and we leave, and we're like, "I mean, it's not our style.
• 6:06
  It's not really great, but fuck, is it a deal And I get in the car and the first thing I do is put the, put, actually type the address into Google [laughs] and it was OJ's house. [gasps] Wow.
• 6:18
  Not just a murder house, the murder house. The murder house. Oh, wow. And I was like, "No wonder it's a deal." [laughs] Arguably the second most favorite famous or second most famous murder house in LA. That's crazy.
• 6:30
  Up there. And by the way, fake murder house, one of our friends, Loreen, the best, she doesn't live there anymore, she lived in for a while the Freddy Krueger house with the red front door. Mm-hmm.
• 6:40
  Which she always got tourists, and her boyfriend would hide in the bushes and scare them. What do you think is the most famous murder house in LA? Well, the Tate house. Sharon Tate's house- Mm. Mm-hmm... I would presume.
• 6:49
  Mm-hmm. S- that's what I think of, but I'm not up to speed on, on murders per se. But- We were also pre-... what a weird- We originally lived close to the Wonderland murders house, which was great, so.
• 6:58
  Which one was that? I mean, I know that's one of the w- like, things, like I know the name of it, but I forget who, like, what the, who was murdered or what the circumstances was. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
• 7:07
  Known as the Four on the Floor murders or the Laurel Canyon murders. There were four unsolved murders in Clau- occurred in Los Angeles in 1981. Yeah, that was right around the corner.
• 7:19
  So anyways, we didn't buy OJ's house. I... What a weird time of our lives when murders were sort of funny, you know?
• 7:25
  E- even though they're not, they're obviously not, but there's so many jokes made between the Menendez and OJ.
• 7:31
  And a fr- my friend and I had a weird obsession, a funny fake obsession with Andrew Cu- Cunanan, who murdered Versace. I don't know where any of these things came from.
• 7:41
  But speaking of jerking off in the closet, did you see that apparently, I think it's China, made some machine that jerks you off for you if you are, like, an IVF dad or something like that, and you need to jerk off in the hospital and you are too nervous to do that?
• 7:56
  Does it jerk you off or does it just fluff you so that you're able to? Because here's the thing. It looks like some sort of suction machine. I think once you're up for it, it's fine.
• 8:04
  It's when it's your 10th time in that closet, and literally, and these people are so lovely. These, these incredible IVF nurses are like, "Claire, here is the closet.
• 8:14
  The closet is this big, and there's a little TV- Oh, yeah... with a little porn should you require it. And there's the c- wall. Oh, really?
• 8:20
  And right on the other side is all the nurses doing their job because of course they don't have a big hallway for you to go down. Sure.
• 8:25
  But you're like, you do have to contribute if that's how you're choosing to do this, and they need it fresh and, and all that.
• 8:33
  And so it's m- it's less like I need someone to do it and more just, gotta get my head around this here. I'm not 17 and everything goes. I, Steve and I would, I was, I would be really...
• 8:42
  When he got his vasectomy, you have to go and, you know, make sure all- Troop lines... you know, all your soldiers are... Yeah, exactly, like everyone's left the, the base.
• 8:50
  But he would be so embarrassed to go down to the hospital and do that, and I was so pissed at him- Mm-hmm...
• 8:57
  'cause I was like, "Do you know the indignities I go through as a woman just, like, even, not even giving birth, going to the gynecologist and getting the jack cranked up, you know, in my cervix." Yeah.
• 9:07
  "And you get to go have an orgasm, and you think the nurses care enough about you that they, they think twice about you jerking off?" Do you know how many guys jerk off in that closet every day?
• 9:17
  They don't f- they're, fuck you. They're, you're, you're a body. Yeah. Yeah. So he ended up discovering that you could send it in by mail, and I was like, I was mad actually. I was like, "That's cheating."
• 9:27
  And, you know, once again, men get their way. Of course they do. So, yeah. Yeah, I tried to see it as a little treat. I was like, I, I need to be able to do my part. This shouldn't be stressful. Gotta be figured out.
• 9:38
  I definitely struggled more when we, before we got to that point and it was the like, "Hey, let's try to do it at this specific time every day based on whatever fucking basal temperature," all that shit.
• 9:50
  I was like, "This is not working for me." Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get it also, but als- yeah. Anyway.
• 9:56
  As we talked about last week about sex, whatever, being different for women than men, and you're like, "Oh, do you have to have an orgasm at an inopportune time? Sorry." A hundred percent. You know? But, yeah.
• 10:07
  I mean, believe me, [laughs] I'm not looking for apologies here. And now they exist, and there's three and they're incredibly annoying and don't pick up their shit, so I'm so glad we don't have that.
• 10:16
  Let's, now s- speaking of virgins, and, you know, we're not, but. That's three. We did murderers, we did, what was your second one? Jerking off. Jerking off. Okay. Perfect. And virgins. And virgins.
• 10:28
  Now we're, I said we're going backward in time from, you know, we're like Benjamin Buttoning. So w- I wanted to talk to you about school dances today 'cause, uh.
• 10:35
  This, I was so excited when you fucking texted me about this. I'm so excited. Let's do this. And you didn't send me any photos. I put myself out there and I sent you photos of myself- I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry...
• 10:44
  from school dances. While you're talking I'm gonna try to find some. I think... Okay, if you're brave, well, you don't have to do it now, but if you're brave, send them to me later. Yeah.
• 10:51
  Actually no, you should send them to me now. Oh, my God. It's only fair, 'cause we should put them on the Instagram when we put out the, the clip of this. But- Mm-hmm... so Paul has homecoming on Saturday. Um, HOCO.
• 11:00
  Do you guys call it HOCO? I don't, but they, the kids do these days. Okay.
• 11:05
  We have friends who are, like, in their early 40s, and you discover some really interesting generational differences when someone is just about five or six years younger than you when you're kind of, you assume you're the same age.
• 11:17
  Mm. And then for instance, like, this friend who's, or friends who are younger, I said, "Did you ever hear of this HOCO?" Yes, they called them HOCOs. That's crazy.
• 11:24
  Also, my friend had never heard of the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit, which was insane to me, 'cause I was like- Talk about jerking off and murder [laughs] I was like, "That was the zeitgeist," you know?
• 11:36
  Oh, Jessica Rabbit. Not only was it a popular movie, we all, it was all... Anyway, so HOCO, and it is, w- here are the things that are interesting to me.
• 11:44
  First of all, I s- I don't know if I sent you the description of the dance, but the dance has so much more than just a dance going on.
• 11:51
  There's a part of the room apparently where they're gonna have board games and puzzles for people who don't prefer to dance and socialize, and there's a chill zone for people who, I don't know, maybe get over-stimulated, or
• 12:04
  I don't know, can't handle the noise. I'm honestly jealous. I think that sounds lovely. That sounds like a nice time. Would you have preferred that? And it sounds like...
• 12:12
  I don't know if I would have taken advantage of it, but I would have liked knowing that there was an opportunity to do things, that you could escape to other rooms. Mm-hmm. I feel like that was one of the allures.
• 12:22
  Now, I wasn't s- well, no, I did start smoking cigarettes in high school, but I feel like- As a smoker, as a cigarette smoker, that was sort of the appeal of smoking was that you had a reason to go escape from the, from the premises- Mm...
• 12:35
  for a, for a socially acceptable reason for a moment in time. So there's that. But on the other hand, there is this aspect of the proposal. You don't ask someone to a dance, you do...
• 12:46
  I mean, I guess for prom they call it a promposal, but they do it for homecoming. And it is still very gendered in that it seems like boys ask girls by and large. Maybe I'm, I'm sure I'm missing a swath of things.
• 12:58
  And you don't just ask them with your mouth.
• 13:01
  You have to make a sign, you know, and it might be captured on TikTok or Snapchat or whatever it is so that it is documented so that you're, you know, the girl can have the evidence that you asked her, asked her and put the effort into it.
• 13:17
  Yeah, so we have a friend whose son has done this. Paul did not do this. He's rolling with his friends. And so I tried to get him to talk to me about this last night to glean some, some information.
• 13:27
  Just, can I- And he was... Oh, go ahead. Just so I, I wanna understand the logistics now again. So by, you're saying he didn't do that, he's going with his friends. So that you're, you have to either
• 13:37
  do the sign and the TikTok to memorialize it if you're asking someone, or opt out entirely and do friends. Those are kind of the two routes now? Yeah. Or, I mean, I went up solo to my, to... When I did homecoming.
• 13:49
  And I, Paul...
• 13:50
  I went to the same school as Paul, so this is a gigantic, massive building that's got its own ZIP code basically, and I, I remember years later my mom telling me how much she admired me for how brave I was, for bravely walking into homecoming alone.
• 14:07
  Wow. And I was like, I did not think of it as brave, 'cause, I don't know, you, this is a building that you've been to every single day for several months now. You know, it's all the same people.
• 14:18
  And it's not, you know, it doesn't have the same cachet as your prom, you know, or whatever- Mm-hmm... dance.
• 14:23
  So, so anyway, I guess it's an option that like a loser like me could just walk in alone, you know, and roll a, roll the dice on knowing one of the 600 people inside. So anyway, so I asked Paul like how he feels.
• 14:37
  A- according to him, most kids are asking someone, which I'm not sure if that's true. But I said, "Do you have a certain feeling about not asking someone?" And he said, "Not really."
• 14:47
  He's like, "I don't think you should be ashamed if you don't..." He's like, "You shouldn't ask someone if you don't wanna ask them." And I was like, "I think that's wise, and keep that-" Sure... mentality up.
• 14:56
  Keep that going. But the girl perspective, it is just funny 'cause my friends with daughters have all gone shopping for dresses and picked out their dresses.
• 15:05
  And Paul, his plan is that he will probably wear a collared shirt, end of plan. And that's it. So yeah.
• 15:13
  So in some ways it's nice I think how these dances have become more inclusive in certain ways, and also things have not changed, you know, and I think the stakes have gotten even higher in these cases, so, um- Well, if you gotta have- Yeah...
• 15:24
  documented footage, I mean, maybe we would pass notes and stuff, right? Like asking- Sure. And then... [gasps] Go ahead. Just sent you one. Sorry, I just sent this picture.
• 15:33
  Hold on, I got another very different one coming. Hold on. I've never seen how much you look like your kids until now. I mean, I, yeah. Fucking beefcake. All those sideburns. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Wow. Can't beat those.
• 15:47
  I'll look for more later. I'm sure my parents didn't take many, 'cause I was such a fucking dickhead. But there's so many more that I can find of this old family stash of my sister, because of course. Why not?
• 15:58
  Let me ask you this, before we go back to ours versus theirs. He said mostly people are being asked or asking someone. Did you feel that was the case for you? Not, not at homecoming, 'cause it's so early fresh...
• 16:10
  Homecoming is more for freshmen I think, and it is pr- and I feel like it was pretty rare for kids to be coupled up by that point. Mm-hmm. So I don't remember.
• 16:19
  I think I, I mean, I can tell you more angst around a couple of other dances, but not particularly homecoming.
• 16:24
  And I'm not sure if I believe him when he says that most kids are coupling up, but you know, I'm not gonna delve into it too much.
• 16:31
  I, I, I know friends whose kids certainly wouldn't mind being asked, or they think they know who they would ask and, but I don't know if that's gonna, if that's gonna happen.
• 16:38
  A, a friend of mine, Steve went out last night with some guy friends, and one of them has a daughter who I heard through the grapevine was up until last week worried ill, literally ill, that no one would ask her.
• 16:50
  And now the conundrum is that someone might ask her, but he's not who she wanted to ask. Oh. So now she has to deal with that. Uh-huh. So yeah, it's hard, it's hard out there. It is...
• 17:01
  You know, I don't, I, I would almost wanna go peek in and see what these dances look like, 'cause I'm like, do they even slow dance anymore?
• 17:07
  I wish, I want someone to tell us if they're listening if kids slow dance, and to, to whom st- at this point. So I was told s- so, so far Oliver's in his third year of middle school, so we haven't had any dances yet.
• 17:20
  Middle school doesn't have homecoming. I'm not calling it HOCO. I just had a whole conversation- Mm... with someone the other day and they kept saying HOCO, and I genuinely didn't know what they were talking about.
• 17:29
  [laughs] Now, now I know. The first year his dance, I think it was a Valentine's dance, got canceled for some reason, and I don't remember what. It was really last minute.
• 17:39
  And so a bunch of the parents got something really kind of sweet together in like a local community little clubhouse.
• 17:44
  We dressed it all up and made food, and the kids kind of mingled in a room that was, you know, not that big. But then last year they did have one, and it was in the gym, which feels appropriate.
• 17:55
  That's almost always what it is, at least for us growing up. You know, real Back to the Future, Teen Wolf style. And kids have phones, and so there were pictures.
• 18:06
  There's, first of all, my, my da- there were no pictures of anything, like at the actual thing, right? Of course.
• 18:11
  They had some pictures they had taken, and he'd only took two pictures of him showing me, and it was like, you know, different friends or little couples or something, before I said, "Wait a minute. Hold on.
• 18:22
  Are all the lights on the entire time?" And he was like, "Yeah. Why not?" And I was like, "That's weird to me." And he, and it didn't even occur to him at all. Ours were off. There was maybe a- Okay...
• 18:35
  a disco ball type thing or something, but no ma'am. True. Mm-hmm. That gym was dark. Yeah. That gym was dark. Yeah. That's for romance. Yeah. No, that's an interesting point.
• 18:44
  Yeah, I, I do wanna say it's not the same thing, a high school dance is not the same thing as a middle school dance, but James went to a dance, a multi-school dance that, it's called Fortnightly here, and in the past it actually used to be like a dance class, an etiquette class for kids, and that has be- fallen out of favor obviously, and now it's just one big mixer.
• 19:04
  Mm-hmm. And Ja- so we forced James to go. I, I don't think he would've wanted to go, and then we were all of a sudden, "We would like you to be gone for three hours on a Friday night." Mm-hmm.
• 19:13
  And we heard that many of the boys were pulling each other's pants down at this dance, and there was disconnect again between our friends and us.
• 19:23
  The moms, we moms were horrified, you know, or about to send our kids to military school for being sexual offenders. Mm-hmm. And then the dads were like, "LOL, who didn't do that?"
• 19:35
  So yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts would be if it was your youngest and you heard about guys pantsing each other. Not girls per se, but each other at a dance. How, how- I, I-... mad would you be, or not mad?
• 19:47
  I try to take the perspective of someone who undoubtedly did all the things, right? Mm-hmm.
• 19:57
  But who remembers that and that feeling of like buzz and doing all the dumb shit with your guy friends, 'cause you've nowhere else to put it, and you're trying to tuck a boner into your belt.
• 20:09
  But also a little wisdom in knowing that society's moved on a little bit. So I try to have a lit- not like grace with it, but I'm like, "We're not gonna do that. I totally get it.
• 20:19
  I'm sure I did it too, and I know it seems innocent to you. We're not... Let's, let's not do that," you know? And I don't know. I find that maybe that earns me a little more hopefully later for something more serious.
• 20:33
  I don't know. Where Dana's like- Yeah... "You should be arrested. I'll turn you in myself." Yeah, exactly.
• 20:38
  We moms were like, like I told James, I was like, "You know, you kind of put me through the wringer for certain things. Can you do me this one favor and not be the kid who pulls down people's pants at the dance?"
• 20:46
  And he [laughs] was like, "Word." [laughs] Yeah, there was some disconnect 'cause we moms were like, "I guess we're the only ones who give a shit about our kids now."
• 20:53
  And I think it's 'cause we're just always hyper-aware of being blamed if we have bad kids, you know? And- Of course. Boy moms. Yeah...
• 20:59
  and we, and we, yeah, and we always, we always imagine being a girl mom watching these boys fuck around like idiots and being blamed for it personally. So anyway, TBD on how homecoming will go.
• 21:11
  But that is not the only dance obviously that will, that will come up. So tell me a little bit what you remember. And I sent you some Steve stories about, about dances- Yeah, they were great...
• 21:20
  which makes me, yeah, it almost makes me wonder if it is a man's world. Duh, why would I wonder? I know.
• 21:28
  But when it comes to dances, 'cause it sounds like guys have it so much better than girls do in terms of being, like having the power, being desired. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.
• 21:38
  But tell me a little bit, some, some memories of what school dances were like for you, good and bad, lascivious, innocent, good memories, things like that. Well, context.
• 21:49
  I've been since fifth grade like a serial monogamist, right? So almost always gonna do the asking and almost always someone I was always already, quote-unquote, "dating," right?
• 22:00
  There wasn't a lot of who, who am I gonna ask? It's like it was a natural fit.
• 22:04
  At the same time, I was both, as I've described to you, like bearded and six foot and athletic when I was like 11, but also like highly insecure. And so
• 22:15
  all these things would mesh together where I would feel extra anxiety to ask whoever that person was, even though I guess technically like it wouldn't be required, though they did expect it.
• 22:26
  I mean, we are in sort of the South, not quite as much. But they were, I think on one hand they were just as tame in reality as boys pulling each other's pants down and, and playing games,
• 22:41
  and on the other hand, our context was totally different. Again, like lights off, LO cool J. I mean, there, there was, there, there was no room for Jesus- Mm-hmm... the, the wa- And did we have chaperones?
• 22:57
  Yeah, of course, but i- it was a whole different ballgame.
• 23:01
  Somebody said, o- one of my buddies Nate said his daughter went to his, her first homecoming and they have a thing which I think makes a lot of sense, it's very easy to remember.
• 23:09
  He said, "If your grades don't touch, neither should you." And I was like, "Oh, that..." But, but that's, I get it, right? I get it a little bit. Yeah. That's better than save room for Jesus. I mean, come on. Yes.
• 23:20
  But yeah. And then, I don't know, so you would dance and all that stuff, but we had everything, you know, again, from... There was, there, let me just say there was, the songs, the soundtrack was not pulling any punches,
• 23:32
  you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.
• 23:34
  Now did you, so you never had a romantic moment at a dance with somebody that you didn't come with, or that you started off, had never, that you never had a first kiss at the dance or you kissed someone else at the dance or anything like that?
• 23:46
  No, I would definitely have plenty of fights with whoever the person [laughs] was I came with, 'cause I would be- That's really funny... pulling down pants or doing the dumbest shit.
• 23:54
  But no, I never had the like, "Will I get to dance with this person tonight?" thing. Interesting. Mm-hmm. What about you?
• 24:00
  My, one of our first d- well, so my first, our high school had some sanctioned dances and then weird private dances that we'll go into. 'Cause I also was on w- they, we had a cotillion- Mm-hmm...
• 24:10
  that I was on the board for. Sure. And I think I sent you some photos of me wearing white gloves, and I'll talk about that in a little bit.
• 24:16
  But one of the private dances, and the thing that's weird about these private dances is that it was like- Most of the class would be invited, but not everyone.
• 24:24
  And so in retrospect, that's really problematic 'cause I think a lot of us have memories of being like, "Everyone was there."
• 24:30
  And then there'll be like some kid who's like, "I wasn't fucking there," and you're like, "Ugh." Can I back up? So- What is a private dance? Tina Turner's my only reference there.
• 24:38
  What- [laughs] I mean, a parents' group would rent a hotel ballroom and- Okay. Okay. Got it... their kids would invite their friends. So a- Got it...
• 24:46
  and if I, I, I'm probably speaking out of turn, but I feel if kids weren't invited, it wasn't because they weren't, they were being excluded actively.
• 24:55
  It was more like the kids who the families were holding the dances didn't know who these other kids are.
• 24:59
  I'm probably speaking way out of turn, but that's my mem- And as someone who had to be in charge of inviting kids to one of these dances.
• 25:07
  So I think the most fun of these dances, we would call it the holiday dance, and it was at the Orrington Hotel. Mm. And so it was kind of a ball, and you would dress up, cocktail attire, I would say, holiday-ish.
• 25:19
  And it was fun because you would dress up, and it was very dark, and we had a DJ. It was always a fun DJ, and they always knew what to spin.
• 25:27
  I feel like nothing would be hotter than when they would hit "Groove Is in the Heart," you know, and everyone fucking lost their minds.
• 25:33
  And, um- Now, now I'm looking at a picture fr- This picture's labeled, "Sophomore year holiday dance," comma, "field trip to Chinatown." Oh, yeah. So is that one of these? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So okay.
• 25:44
  So one of those dances... Oh, yeah. So that, I think, was the year, maybe that was sophomore... Yeah, that was sophomore year, but freshman year I wore the same dress 'cause, you know, like- Mm-hmm... upcycling queen.
• 25:54
  That was exciting 'cause a guy named John Sifrey d- asked me to dance, and then we went on a date maybe the following weekend to see... Actually, it was really funny. The Pelican Brief, which, which part of- Ooh...
• 26:04
  was part of one of Steve's movies, like, in his stories.
• 26:07
  But long story short, that's the only time I've ever been asked out properly and been on a proper date, and John has been out of the closet since at least since I was- That nice. I...
• 26:18
  No one was surprised when it, when he- Uh-huh... came out of the closet. And he's a, and he is a wonderful person, John. I'm sure he's not listening at all, but he was really nice.
• 26:26
  But I just, I feel like that's very Liz Lemon, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, the one time you get, like, a proper romantic thing that I... And I'm like, I think that was my vibe, was like a nice girl who's... I don't know.
• 26:36
  So, and then- Mm... there was, well, another time. I went to a, one dance at school to, with a boyfriend, and he was awkward but nice.
• 26:44
  But my prom, senior prom, I asked a guy friend, like, all f- all four years of school guy friend and, 'cause I figured we'd just have a nice time together, and I just remember he showed up to my parents' house.
• 26:56
  He used to have one of those, like, really traditional... I loved it. I was always such a sucker for, like, a butt cut of '90s, you know, like, in the middle.
• 27:03
  Like, kind of that would still be floppy around your face a little bit. Mm-hmm. He buzzed his hair, like, the day before prom. I'm looking at it now. Did you have- Yeah... any idea that was coming in the door? No.
• 27:14
  I was... I don't know why I cared, but I was kind of like, "What the fuck is this?" And I think you can tell from the photo, he was so awkward all night, and I don't know if it was, like, getting dressed up.
• 27:28
  I don't know if it was coming to my parents' house. I always thought that maybe he was worried that I liked him, liked him- Mm... and was gonna switch things up. Mm-hmm.
• 27:36
  But I remember feeling kinda mad, that I was like, "I thought we were gonna have a fun joke around, goof around time," and all of a sudden I got this, like, awkward guy. So- 'Cause there's stakes to it, you know?
• 27:47
  With the second you get dressed up and go to the dance, it's like, what... It becomes an opportunity for what if it turns into something else. Yeah.
• 27:55
  And on top of it, I went with my best friend at the time and her boyfriend. These, they're in the pictures as well. Mm-hmm. And she was mad at him all night long. I don't remember what.
• 28:05
  I, I feel like she was in a bad mood, and he was trying to make her feel better, and that made her m- angrier, and this attitude kind of pervaded. Mm-hmm. So it was this sort of like a weird off night in general.
• 28:16
  She doesn't look excited about putting his cas- corsage on. He looks happier about it than she does. Yeah, yeah. We...
• 28:23
  And prom was very strange 'cause I, I ended up going shopping for a dress with her mom, and I felt guilty about that for years, that I didn't go with my mom. Mm-hmm. And now in retrospect, I'm like, I don't...
• 28:34
  I'm sure my mom probably didn't give too many shits about it. But- Mm-hmm... anyway, it was, prom was, like, not it. I remember being like, "I'm sick of these pe-" The other thing was that with prom was that...
• 28:43
  Okay, pause. Did you ever drink or do drugs, anything like that before or after one of your dances in high school? No. I mean, not really. I mean, I was, I was a l- like, a loser about that by, by choice.
• 28:57
  Like, occasionally, but... And, you know, my, my buddy I share an office with here, he was similar.
• 29:02
  He partied a little more than me, but, like, with swimming, like, we just were up every fucking morning in the water at 5:00. Yeah.
• 29:08
  And, and I- eventually, even if you're not getting up the next morning or have a little thing, I don't know. You're just fucking tired all the time. So I really didn't do much of that at all. Uh- I didn't either.
• 29:18
  I, they are gonna have... They told us in the current email they're gonna have breathalyzers at the door for homecoming tomorrow to use as needed. And I asked Paul, by the way, if he's seen someone vape.
• 29:27
  He said once so far. Mm. And I asked him as a joke, I said, "Were you scared?" [laughs] And he said no, but he turned around and walked out 'cause it was in the bathroom at school.
• 29:36
  But we, I never did before, after, or around a school dance, including at prom. We drank, you know, sparkling apple cider in the limo.
• 29:44
  Our prom was at Navy Pier, downtown Chicago, and we very ironically were, like, yelling, "Ah, ah." But we were all, as far as I know, super sober.
• 29:53
  But I think the junior year holiday dance or maybe senior year, my friend Bonnie got super drunk. And I think I told you.
• 30:01
  Did I tell you, was it last week when I told, when I confessed to my parents, like, when I said the F word 'cause I was so laden with guilt? Mm-hmm.
• 30:08
  When my friend Bonnie got drunk and threw up in the cab on the way home, I was so scandalized, so after school special. I came home and I told my parents 'cause I just was so angry.
• 30:20
  Another girl had given her the booze, and I was angry at my, uh, this other girl for enabling her. And I- It, it was like might as well...
• 30:28
  It was like the first time I'd ever seen someone do cocaine, where I was like, "What?" And you, you know, you're like, "I've heard about this in movies, but I can't believe this actually happens."
• 30:36
  So no, I was the same where I was always, you know, for better or for worse not on anything for any of these dances. So yeah, I don't know if that would enhance the experience or not.
• 30:47
  That's, well, that's the kind of the question is like a complete inability to handle it, obviously. I'm not sure how much that would've helped, right? Yeah. It's not like- Well, I know-...
• 30:56
  now where you're like, "Well, I know if I have one and a half ounces of this very nice tequila, it'll at least mellow me out for this dinner party I don't wanna go to." Then you're like- Right...
• 31:04
  where you're, you're drinking Mad Dog or fucking God knows what, some wine cooler somebody stole. I don't- Yeah, yeah. Well, at the high school they would have, I think to try to keep kids from partying, we...
• 31:16
  You'd have the dance at Navy Pier in this ballroom, and then there was a three-hour cruise afterwards on the lake. And- Oh...
• 31:24
  I, I remember, again, we were all like I think there's so much build-up to prom that by the time you're on this boat and you're fucking stuck on this boat, I'm like, "Get me out of here. I'm sick of all these people.
• 31:33
  This music is weird. I don't know where to go," you know? And we went home and we watched the sunrise, and we all had pancakes together. And, um- Did, did the school pay for this boat? I guess so. You had to buy tickets.
• 31:44
  Our after- You had to pay to go and everything... prom was in the cafeteria next to the gym. [laughs] Oh, really? Yeah. There was no... No. You were in Union Station or something like that? No. [laughs] Okay.
• 31:55
  My public high school was not doing that. [laughs] Well, I, 'cause I, at Georgetown we had a couple of dances, fancy din- like dip ball, the diplomats ball and things like that. Mm-hmm.
• 32:04
  And we did have a senior dance that was in Union Station.
• 32:07
  But they, yeah, I, well, I did know some people who would go, their parents had houses in Door County, Wisconsin, and that's where if you were sophisticated, you would go off.
• 32:18
  And I remember a girl I went to grade school, I'd heard that she... I heard rumors about things that she did at the cabin out in Door County and being very scandalized- Mm...
• 32:26
  and, and feeling my sort of judgy FOMO and a sort of weird sense of sadness.
• 32:32
  I don't know, I, I would get this weird sense of sadness when I would hear about someone I grew up with like doing something adult, you know, before, before I did or something like that. Mm-hmm.
• 32:41
  So yeah, so those movies... So it's weird to watch those movies like, you know, American Pie or I don't know- Mm-hmm...
• 32:48
  Sixteen Candles or movies where the dance is like, or you know, 90210 where you're like, "This is adulthood. This is it right now. This is-" Yeah... "like everything," and it's nothing.
• 32:58
  It's, the dance is nowhere near as fun as getting ready for the dance, hardly ever.
• 33:03
  No, I mean, and again, like we did dumb guy shit, or there'd be like you could buy concessions or whatever, and I feel like we would constantly go back to concessions.
• 33:11
  But yeah, I, I mean, you know, it was a lot of hanging out on, on the bleachers and laughing at your friends and, and doing dumb shit. But again, like guys have a different experience. Yeah.
• 33:21
  Where again, like every day of middle school and high school was existential. I felt, I would feel insecure about the whole thing, but then once I was there, I was like, "I don't know. It's dark everywhere.
• 33:31
  We're just running around being fucking dumb." But also like the music was great. Like our music was great. Yeah. I mean, if you weren't dancing to- Our music was great... you know,
• 33:40
  Gangsta's Paradise, then, then what are you doing? You know what I remembered- Yeah... this morning when we were thinking about this and is do you remember
• 33:49
  at any of the dances, much less if there was any repetition to it, what like the last song they played before the lights came on was? No.
• 33:58
  I mean, I remember at the bar in college it was like, you know, it would be like Closing Time or something like that, but no, I don't remember what the... W- what was it for you? What do you remember it being?
• 34:08
  Stairway to Heaven. Don't know why. The only songs I remember, because they were so out of context, I remember there being a dance or two where they would play November Rain- Mm...
• 34:18
  and that would be like the slow dance part. Mm-hmm. But then comes like the- Same thing with Stairway to Heaven... you know, more metal part. How do you dance to that? Unclear, right?
• 34:27
  That's an impossible song to dance to. And it stood out so much, again, because 99 of the rest of, 99% of the rest of the music was, was not like Robert Plant. [laughs] Like... Right.
• 34:36
  Well, and another time, I'm at my friend who's one of my more hippie friends, Tracy, shout out, she might be listening.
• 34:43
  Somehow they convinced the DJ at holiday dance to play the song Hurricane, the Bob Dylan song, which is like- Is 12 minutes long. [laughs] I know. It is so long. [laughs] I was like, "What the fuck?"
• 34:55
  I don't know how that got in there. Oh, no. And of course that's stuck in my head more than, more than anything else. But yeah, I'm really... I'm gonna have to ask Paul what they, what the hell they, they played.
• 35:05
  Steve has some really good stories that he sent me, including one where a girl asked him to a dance, and they got all dressed up, and I think she was like on the board or whatever, and then they got to the front door and she said, "I don't wanna be here."
• 35:16
  And they turned around and went to see a movie- I gave into that... which I think is extremely romantic. Yeah. Yeah. So I just- That sounds really fun... looked up top songs in 1998, and- Mm-hmm...
• 35:25
  yeah, we played most of these. Too Close by Next, 100%. Now, I don't know if you remember that one. Yeah. It is not- Yes... G-rated. No. The Boy is Mine by Brandy and Monica, huge hit. Mm-hmm.
• 35:36
  Probably did some slow dancing to You're Still the One by Shania Twain. How Do I Live, LeAnn Rimes. Oh, man, come on. All My Life, K-Ci & JoJo, knew every word.
• 35:47
  I mean, you were dancing as if this, this was it- No Diggity... all my life. That would always start it. Oh, No Diggity- No Diggity would get everyone... nice and slow. Usher, I mean, these were just... Yeah.
• 35:56
  Getting Jiggy With It. I mean, Usher, oh, yeah. This was, yeah, some Sarah McLachlan. I Don't Want to Miss a Thing- [laughs]... by Armageddon, or by Aerosmith- And then-... which eventually was my wedding- [laughs]...
• 36:05
  first dance song. Really? Oh, yeah. I know. Wow. I know. Diane Warren, amazing. I mean, she fucking crushed it. Oh, yeah. Let's Ride by Montell Jordan, sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. So 'cause you grew up in Virginia, right?
• 36:20
  Mm-hmm. Was, so how Southern in terms of, you know, ideals and things like that was it for you guys? Like- Well, Williamsburg is weird. We're, we're not considering, again, there's cannons outside.
• 36:32
  Like we're not, doesn't feel nearly as like- South, southern as 20 minutes in almost any direction except for down towards like the naval base and stuff.
• 36:43
  Like parts of Greater Richmond, which is quite large, are definitely more southern. When you go over the rivers, like it's definitely more... We're, we're a little weirder.
• 36:51
  So like there was some of that for sure, but it was mostly like pop country music. There, it, it was less the bigger- Well-... traditions. But like cotillion's still a thing in places. Oh, were the girls...
• 37:00
  Yeah, I was gonna say, were there, were there cotillions and comings out and debutantes and things like that? There weren't comings out or debutantes, or I didn't get invited to them, but I don't- Mm... I don't remember
• 37:10
  much of that really. It's good. But I wanna hear about these white gloves 'cause I feel like they're, that's related. Oh, good. Yeah.
• 37:16
  So there's a, there is a, still a woman's club at Evanston, and they would have a cotillion for juniors and seniors. And there would be a cotillion board. I, to my mind, at least at the time of high school...
• 37:27
  Well, first of all, my high school is so huge, and the vibe of the high school is there's no social hierarchy. But if there were, I did not feel like I was one of the, you know, especially cool, noteworthy kids.
• 37:39
  I, I think I had a sort of emo opinion of myself.
• 37:42
  But I was invited to be on the board, and I'm pretty sure it's because a girl who was the year- You, the seniors would invite the juniors, so the juniors and seniors would be the board.
• 37:51
  And this girl Maura Brown invited me to be on the board as a junior, and I was 99.9% sure she invited me because her mom was good friends with my mom- Mm... and parents were good friends, and I'm sure she was...
• 38:03
  So I was informed of this, and I was kinda thrown together with this other group of girls, I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 girls, and we had to have meetings and invite...
• 38:15
  I think we, you know, had a certain amount of kids you could invite. Maybe there was some charity aspect to this that I have no recollection of.
• 38:22
  But as the board, we would be introduced in these white gloves, elbow length- Mm-hmm. Oh, excuse me, not, I wish they were fucking elbow length. They would get you right at the meats, right in your- Mm-hmm...
• 38:34
  fat part, right there.
• 38:35
  And so, uh, so it was more formal than the holiday dances 'cause it was in this country, this ladies country club, and it had this aspect of coming out and a lot more parents watching, you know, like proudly watching their daughters be unrolled.
• 38:48
  But this is such a weird thing for the Chicago suburbs. This is not a southern- Yeah, I was gonna say... vibe. Yeah.
• 38:54
  So and then when we all sat down, we girls who were on the board, I remember we all, we all wrote, made a list of all of our friends, and then we invited, then made a list of everyone else that we knew.
• 39:06
  Then we still had several hundred kids to add, so we started going through the yearbook looking for people that we'd forgotten. And so it was almost like N minus 20 people. We...
• 39:15
  So on the one hand, you know you're excluding people, but you're also not excluding people 'cause you have so many people to invite.
• 39:21
  So then, so as a senior, my job was to invite a, a junior to come up, and what's funny is that I'm friends still with a girl who... Actually, I'm friends with both these girls who in pull- I pulled in.
• 39:31
  And I thought I was like being sort of like a, a rebel by asking a friend who was from the Evanston Skokie border, and she was in theater instead of sports. I was like, "Yeah, I'm like really mixing this up."
• 39:45
  And I just talked to her mom, and her mom was horrified about the whole prospect of it. Anyway- Mm-hmm...
• 39:50
  cut to, so to the surprise of no one, they've c- they've canceled this dance completely, and it's not held anymore because it's around 2020. No, that shit wasn't flying anymore.
• 39:59
  But it was just funny 'cause I ran into a girl, a girl, a woman who is Black, and she, this woman Allison, was like, "Was cotillion racist?" She was like, "I didn't think it was racist.
• 40:09
  I didn't think we were being racist." And I was like, "I feel like I'm not qualified to say, but I didn't think so. But I don't know. How, who am I to say?" I can say it was a weird experience.
• 40:20
  It feels very atypical for my life, but also maybe, maybe not as much as I'd like to think. I think that's very Evanston, is we're down. We're also not down in any way. Right. I... It's interesting.
• 40:32
  So cotillion is still a thing, but, but my understanding is it's... And I'm sure they're not all this way, the ones that are surviving. I know a few kids who have done it who are otherwise, or at least beforehand,
• 40:47
  very, very socially awkward. And I don't know if that's 'cause of the COVID years or whatever it was. But
• 40:53
  having to be like, "No, you have to go over there and talk to those kids, and then you have to go over and a- ask that kid to dance or, or whatever, have a conversation about whatever," it was actually very helpful to them, and I think that's really interesting again in a world where boys and girls otherwise are not hanging out nearly as much as they used to and things like that.
• 41:11
  So I'm sure there's some trappings of it that, that could be not great anymore. What are the white gloves for? I don't know.
• 41:17
  But all, all I can see in the picture is that everyone's wearing them, and they're all the exact same pair, Claire. Yes. It's pretty, pretty weird.
• 41:24
  I'll show you another time I, uh, there was a dance for our eighth grade for the kids' school, the fundraiser, and there were three, I think three of us adult women who were cotillion board who were there as parents and staff.
• 41:36
  So it was funny to get together and take a picture together and then look back on the picture of us on the cotillion board, and we all look better. Oh, sure. It's great to get older in this day and age.
• 41:46
  That's, this is the problem with girls not having an awkward stage anymore, is that you'll never get to look back and be like, "Wow, thank God for hair care and self-esteem and-" Man, we had no idea- "...
• 41:56
  you know, eyebrows"... how to take care of ourselves. I tell young athletes all the time, I'm like, "The shit we know now about nutrition and sleep, we didn't know or give a fuck that stuff." Right.
• 42:04
  Can I ask you a question- Yeah... about one particular outfit? Mm-hmm. Tell me about this green- Yes... what, what do you describe that? Is that a shawl? Is that... What is that? Oh, yeah.
• 42:12
  And what was the reasoning behind that? That is, that was a shawl. Oh my God, that was my favorite part.
• 42:16
  So first of all, I don't know why I got a cotillion, I mean, a prom dress that looked almost exactly like other dresses I had worn. I don't know what the fuck I was going for. It worked. It was in my- Stick with it...
• 42:24
  yeah. I have a regret about that. But I got... Yeah, we got shawls. Mm-hmm. And at the time, I thought it was like funny and funky to have a lime green lining to my shawl.
• 42:35
  So that is why I'm working that so aggressively 'cause I, that was like- I think it's great. What a great accessory... the most interesting part of my- Thank you.
• 42:43
  Yeah, I kinda wish I still had it, but I, I will say the, the guy who I took the first cotillion... By the way, k- being in the cotillion board is, gives you no social capital whatsoever.
• 42:53
  There is no- [laughs] It did not give me an ounce more of acceptance, it didn't get me a job, it didn't get me anything in life. It just got me some weird photos to look back on.
• 43:03
  But the guy, Josh, I took to, he was, like, the perf- he was such a gentleman, and so nice and handsome, looking back.
• 43:09
  And I remember he was so kind because he was quite taller than me, as you can probably see in the pictures.
• 43:14
  And I remember, even though it was annoying at the time, he would kind of bend his knees to be a bit more my height when we danced. And, but, like, in looking back, I'm like, "What a nice guy. What a..." You know? Sure.
• 43:23
  And he and I are still kinda... He's out in LA, actually. He works in the entertainment industry.
• 43:28
  But I am going to, like, this is real, real, in, after I talk to you, I'm gonna talk to my friend Matt, who I went to high school with, and his experience was like yours where he played baseball so he didn't get fucked up at the, at prom 'cause they had to play a game the next day.
• 43:45
  I remember, like, when you were senior year, it was, I was single, and I was trying to figure out who I would ask to go to prom and, you know, it's kind of ex- sketchy.
• 43:53
  And this guy, Matt, I was friends with, I thought he might be a safe person to ask 'cause he was a buddy. He had a, he was not a mean guy in any way.
• 44:02
  And in one of my classes, in Latin class, this girl who was sort of a frienemy, frienemy of mine showed me a letter that, or a note that Matt had written to her saying, "Oh my God, I think Claire's about to ask me to prom.
• 44:16
  That's so lame." And so she, that stuck in my memory. I'm gonna talk to Matt later today about completely unrelated things. I don't know if he ever knows that I saw this note.
• 44:27
  And I kinda was thinking- Today he finds out... I don't think I'm gonna say anything to him. I think- I'll say something... I don't know. Te- [laughs]
• 44:35
  Who, with a record of 99% nice and 1% not nice, and he wasn't even the one who was directly being not nice to me, I feel like it's not kind to be like- What the fuck? What- "By the way, I hold it."
• 44:45
  Yeah, but you know what, Matt? You don't have to put that in a note. You can feel that way. You don't have to... Keep it to yourself. I know. Well- Fuck that noise... I'm not, yeah. Well, we'll s- we'll see.
• 44:55
  I, I, I did try to trick him. I didn't trick him. I asked, I texted him yesterday, I was like, "What do you remember about prom?" And he did not say anything. And I said- [laughs]... "You went with me, right?"
• 45:03
  And he said, "Yeah," and, uh, did not say anything, so water under the bridge. Mm. He is a really nice guy. Maybe for you. Like [laughs] Maybe for you. Can I talk about some of the other songs here from 1998?
• 45:14
  'Cause let me tell you- Yes... this fucking year crushed. And the- Now, I was in college by that s- by that, by that point, so then this is a little bit past my time, but go ahead.
• 45:21
  Sure, but th- but these are, it's not past your time. You weren't out to pasture at that point. You were just hearing them in a different context. I was hearing this in a middle school gym. Yeah. Let's see.
• 45:30
  What would they have played? Still Not a Player by Big Pun featuring Joe, 100%. All Cried Out, Alure. Because of You, 98 Degrees. Yes. Bittersweet Symphony. Oof. Here's one for you. Are you ready?
• 45:44
  I'll Be by Edm- Edwin McCain. Do you remember that one? Yes. Ugh. Yeah. Um- Now, what about, call, b- oh my God. I'm looking at 1997 now. Barely Breathing, Duncan Shiek. Oh, yeah. R.I.P. Right?
• 45:57
  Um, Can't Nobody Hold Me Down, Puff Daddy, featuring Mase. That was a huge one. Obviously, Wannabe, Spice Girls. Sorry. Oh, More Money, More Problems. Right? Yes. Isn't This Dangerous, right?
• 46:09
  No Diggity was really, I feel like, well, No Diggity was one that would- No Diggity... really turn the party. Yeah. Oh, Robin. Okay, we gotta stop doing this. This is getting- Mm-hmm...
• 46:16
  I'm sure this is tedious, but yeah. I, uh- True Love, We're Not Making Love No More. Ugh, I mean, talk, dancing to that when you're in seventh grade. [laughs] Did you ask Dana about any of her dance memories? She didn't.
• 46:28
  Did she share anything for, she told you anything? She didn't answer me. She didn't answer me. Not- She doesn't care about me... Dana adds nothings to the podcast sometimes.
• 46:34
  She needs to step up and provide some more anecdotes, but that's okay. Yeah, she's, she's not, she's like, "You do your thing." I can't, I have two remaining questions.
• 46:42
  Okay, I have a- I still don't understand who's paying for this boat. I wanna, I gotta come back to that. And the, but the second thing is, what's, does the, do the words father-daughter dance make your skin crawl?
• 46:52
  I was just gonna ask you. [laughs] I was just gonna ask you about that. I get so mad about it, first of all, for two reasons that are completely contradictory.
• 47:02
  First of all, it's so disgusting, and second of all, moth- mothers and boys- Uh-huh... I guess we're doing- Boy mom. Yeah... we don't, yeah, we got nothing. Yeah. I, you told me you're a daddy and you have a daughter.
• 47:14
  Ew. Have you been to- Mm-mm... any such thing- No... like anything like that? [laughs] No, no, no, no. No. No. I don't think it exists. Well, I don't fucking know. Maybe it does, but I haven't heard anything about it.
• 47:23
  I, I'm good. I don't believe it. I don't, I don't believe it. It's- I, I just, no, thanks. It's [laughs] so weird. You don't wanna marry your daughter? It's so weird. It is- Yeah...
• 47:33
  it's up there with the boy mom thing, where you're just like, "Ugh." [laughs] Yes. I'm gonna marry my dad. It's much worse than boy mom thing.
• 47:40
  Uh- I, yeah, I have heard, I was, I have a friend who has got two girls, and I've heard that apparently when they go, the dads all stand around and talk, and the girls dance, and that's really what it is.
• 47:51
  But, um- If that is the expectation and agreement, sure. Have a g- I will happily- Yeah... chaperone from afar, but mm, it's, it's, it's weird.
• 48:00
  My f- my friend Jenin, who is, like, doing the Lord's Ring, uh, La Grange, Illinois into the 20th century- Mm-hmm... 20th. Mm-hmm.
• 48:08
  She, she has two girls, and so she had them s- they rebranded as gals and pals so that, you know, not, 'cause not everyone has a father, or not everyone has a father in their life. Sure, sure.
• 48:20
  So, and, and I, so I like gals and pals more than daddy-daughter, you know, or sweetheart dance. We do have, at the kids' school, my kids' school- Sorry, hold, hold on. I'm s-... the Catholic school. Okay. S- stop.
• 48:30
  What is sweetheart dads? No, sweetheart dance. That's, like- Oh... the daddy-daughter dance, but it's around Valentine's Day. Ah, that's still even weirder. Mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Yeah.
• 48:40
  So we, there is a, you know, the sweetheart dance at the school for the boy- for the girls and the dads, but then there was a buy-in party for mothers And sons, but it was, or it'd be like sons and special friends, 'cause they also acknowledge not everyone's mom is around.
• 48:54
  Mm-hmm. And that would be the party, I think maybe I told you, where we would take our kids to B- Dave & Buster's. Mm-hmm. And that was actually a ton of fun, and that was a good party, and I was like, "This is
• 49:05
  right up everyone's alley, where we don't have to do shit as moms except drive them there. You can participate as much or little as you want.
• 49:12
  The b- boys get all kinds of treats and video games and nonsense and, and that's nice."
• 49:18
  This year the Dave & Buster's has been transitioned offsite to a Northwestern Iowa basketball game, which I think will, should be fine. So- Sure... but there's no... It is no... There's no sense of special time.
• 49:30
  We all know. I think that's the point is we all know we're not gonna take pictures. No one's dressing up. The boys are all gonna run off, you know- Mm-hmm... and have snacks and, and do their thing, but that's okay.
• 49:40
  And yeah, no. I think the dressing up stuff is, is fun if you can take all the pressure out of it and all that kinda stuff.
• 49:46
  It's just, like you said at the beginning, like, all the potential implications of what may or may not happen and who's paired with who, and then the drama of did, did S- Steve go to the last dance with, with Jenny, and now Jenny's there with Fred from homecoming to pr- I don't, I don't need...
• 50:04
  Like you said, just go to Dave & Buster's after, you know? And that's what... I don't know. My friends and I would go home with a 12-pack of Mountain Dew and play Risk until 5:00 in the morning. That was the best.
• 50:13
  Oh, yeah. Well, the most fun part about the holiday dance at the time, too, was that there was a McDonald's around the corner, and for some reason it was so fun to go to McDonald's in your dress-up clothes. Yeah.
• 50:22
  I don't know why that was... You're like, "This is what being a teenager is all about." But what age did you learn to tie a tie, and do your boys both know how to tie a tie? 44, and no. Oh. [laughs] Uh- Oh, okay...
• 50:34
  no, I did, and then I didn't for a long fucking time, 'cause I didn't have a real job for so long. And then of course there was a period where we went to weddings constantly, and so I did it a bunch.
• 50:43
  And then I was like, "I am not gonna do this anymore." My boys have no idea, no idea. I think they've worn one tie in their lives. Yeah. I don't know how to ti- I actually do...
• 50:54
  I had to wear a bow tie for a long time, 'cause I used to work at The Tombs in Washington, DC, and that was part of our- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm... our uniform. But I don't know how to tie a regular tie.
• 51:03
  This is how you tie it. [laughs] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But... And I remember, I think last year, the boys, the kids... I was on the boy mom chat for school, and the boys had to wear a tie for the science fair. And
• 51:15
  people were like, "Oh my God, how do you tie a tie?" And this mom sent out an instruction diagram, and I was like, "How about you send that to my kid? Why am I- Yeah... still, I'm like, I am not tying a tie.
• 51:25
  It's not, uh, my neck. I'm not doing this." So I point and try and make someone help me tie a tie.
• 51:29
  Does remind me, I almost made, I almost made Dana and me miss the beginning of the Oscars, not last year but the year before, 'cause I couldn't get my bow tie tied before we got onto the red carpet. [laughs] It's hard.
• 51:41
  It's hard. It's complicated. That, those things are a fucking nightmare. Yeah. When did you get... Did you always rent a tux for your school dances, or did you actually- Men's Wearhouse... did you own something? Fuck no.
• 51:50
  [laughs] Oh, okay. I didn't own one. No, Men's Wear- I was this big. Everyone thought I was gonna be enormous. Men's Wearhouse, and then we went to, and he's right over there, my buddy Aaron's mom's flower shop.
• 51:59
  Still around, Flower Cupboard. She put corsages on everyone in town. You'd walk in, your buddy would walk out, everybody's getting their flowers. She knew exactly what to do, and she was keeping track of all the drama.
• 52:08
  Still does. It's the best. That's great. I, my college freshman year went to the Dip Ball, the Georgetown dance.
• 52:16
  And you, I went with this guy Justin, who I had a big crush on, who ended up being my boyfriend, but I remember, I think he got rental shoes. Do you get shoes when you rent a tux? Is that part of it?
• 52:26
  Or he borrowed some shoes from someone. I just remember his shoes were too big- That's a great question... and he had to stuff newspaper in them to feet, to fit them on his feet.
• 52:33
  And I was like, "That's not a thing for girls." [laughs] It's like- Uh, no... you know? I mean, can you... Are there shoes in these pictures I'm sending you? No, there's not. There's not.
• 52:42
  No, and it also was, like, the '90s, so it wasn't cool to just rock sneakers or whatever. No. You know? It was like you had to wear a pair of fucking loafers from somewhere and you wear them for years. Yeah, no.
• 52:55
  The, the theme of homecoming is sneaker ball, and I am not a sneaker head, 'cause I wear all my shoes, but I have cool shoes. And I asked Paul, I'm like, "Do you wanna borrow my Jordan high tops?"
• 53:05
  Or I have sequined Converse low tops. I have yellow Converse high tops. But apparently it's not cool to borrow your mom's shoes for a dance when you're a boy.
• 53:15
  [laughs] See, I, I totally would've been just like that, and now I think- Yeah... that's the dumbest decision. You take cool shoes wherever. You gotta fucking get 'em, you know? Yeah.
• 53:24
  No, he is not really about doing the theme per se, which... And that's, like, a whole other thing, and this is, like, almost for you for your other newsletter.
• 53:33
  But Amazon does a tidy business, like, delivering the shitty theme clothes for theme dances.
• 53:40
  'Cause I know the high school across town had a luau, and everyone was q- like, getting Amazon Hawaiian shirts quickly so they can all wear their, their one shirt for the dance and then throw it away. Oh.
• 53:50
  So that's a whole other- That's a whole other-... like, line of work... fucking thing. Speaking of murders, jerking off, and virgins. Yeah. Yes. It's not the- Right... yeah. I don't know.
• 54:00
  I thought there was something nice in the ritual of, "Have you gotten your suit yet?" "No, I haven't gotten my suit yet." You gotta go down, and they're like...
• 54:05
  You wait long enough, you get what you get, and you don't get upset. That's what's available. Mm-hmm. And so you get the big, remember the '90s, like, big boxy blazers and every- Yeah...
• 54:13
  and of course now they're probably back, but. Yeah. No, there was only one, only one blazer, only one- Mm-hmm... you know, like, you look like Michael Jordan the way he would look. He looks like a perfect rectangle.
• 54:22
  Yeah. Yeah. I remember it being like, even though guys allegedly were supposed to look so good in tuxedos, and then you'd see one and, and you'd be like, "You look weird. You know, that's not a-" Attractive.
• 54:32
  You're not James Bond. You're looking more like, I don't know what, like a, a weird mannequin. But yeah, I'm looking at these pictures.
• 54:39
  Yeah, I feel like the most fun dances were the ones where you knew nothing was gonna happen. And my memory's like- Mm-hmm...
• 54:44
  one of my favorite dance memories was being at the Snow Ball dance at the high school, and just dancing with my friends. And I think I was going to the bathroom or something like that, and I...
• 54:54
  This guy, Johnny Madras, and I were trying to walk around each other, and you know, you're doing that sh- should we, should we? And then we walked by each other, and we both turned around and we hugged each other.
• 55:04
  And we're not even friends like that. We just, I think, both just had the same instinct at the same time, and we were not... had no romance and not even a close friendship.
• 55:12
  But for some reason, that was, like, one of those perfect dance moments that sticks in my head that's better than going with my boyfriend or going with my best friends or, you know, any particular- That's some John Hughes shit...
• 55:21
  kind of dance to rest. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if he... Sometimes I'm like, "Did I make that up in my mind? Did I actually man- did I manifest that memory out of nothing?" But I think it happened.
• 55:30
  But- So it's- You know what? It's on my business. I'm glad that it doesn't sound like... And again, your boys are a little ahead of mine.
• 55:37
  Like, it doesn't sound like at least there is a precondition to just say, "We're not participating in these things at all." Like, they're still...
• 55:47
  They're gonna go with their friends and do their thing, but, like, it is a cultural thing that people still do, that kids still do. Yeah. And when a lot of that shit has changed. I feel bad about this.
• 55:55
  The social media stuff of it makes me bummed out, because it seems like a precursor to wedding bullshit- Mm... and the way weddings... I mean, weddings were already bullsh- getting bullshit by the time we got married.
• 56:08
  Mm-hmm. But at least, like, when I got married, social media wasn't a thing, and I think there's so many more aspects to the performance of it. So, you know, the... I think dances can be so rife already with expectation.
• 56:20
  Mm-hmm. And then now you have to have this moment to share. It's not only about you. It's sharing it with everyone else, and I know- Just tell them they can't bring their fucking phones. I saw a- I... Ugh.
• 56:31
  Well, I'm sure there's parents out there, too, moms especially. Someone showed me a picture of their kid's dance proposal, will you go with me?
• 56:38
  And the way this sign was lettered, I was like, you cannot tell me a 14-year-old boy made this sign. I see a, a mom fingerprints all over this sign. Wow. So that, I don't know, TBD. That might be me in the future.
• 56:50
  You never know. I might be out with the stencils. Don't do it. You know? [laughs] Don't, don't do it. Don't do it. Just don't participate. Just go fuck yourself. Make your own sign. I would love to, but yeah.
• 57:00
  We'll, we'll see. Just to, to come.
• 57:02
  So yeah, next time we talk maybe I'll have some more stories about the dance, and maybe after I talk with Matt, I'll see if he remembers after all these years that all the things you wrote about me.
• 57:12
  Tell your mom, look at your arm. He better know. You would love him. You guys would talk about baseball. He talks to him all the time about crying when they lost the championship, you know, these, these very- Sure...
• 57:22
  you know, vulnerable d- boy dad. I mean, girl dad. But anyway, but I'll never forgive him for- No... you know. And you shouldn't. I- Fuck that guy. [laughs] That's, yeah. It keeps me going.
• 57:33
  Oh, did you guys ever do the limousine thing or anything like that? Just for prom. Just for prom. Okay. Yeah. And yeah. We came before that. No. You're in my memory. And I, yeah, after... On, on...
• 57:42
  Again, prom was like, so felt weird, because it was, like, not on our turf. The DJ, I remember, was playing reggae music, which was, like, fine in any other context.
• 57:51
  People were like, "We don't know any of these songs," you know? It was more...
• 57:54
  By the time of prom, I think we were, like, ready to all move on, just to get, get going and get this behind us, you know, more than anything else. That's so...
• 58:01
  It's, it's almost like, you know, football, playing the game at, like, a neutral stadium. It kind of loses the appeal a little bit, you know? Like, ours- Yeah, yeah... were always at our gym.
• 58:11
  We, there was nothing else that could be afforded. Yeah. You know, the streamers was as expensive as it got, and the same DJ- The-... who played Led Zeppelin every time. What I mainly remember, it was kind of funny.
• 58:23
  On the boat, I ended up telling this guy... Get the, get a hold of this name. This is the coolest name. Haji Outlaw was the guy that I was talking to a lot on the boat, and we'd always had classes together.
• 58:33
  And so I could be Mrs. Outlaw in another world. But we- Fuck that up...
• 58:37
  we stayed up all night, and then woke up, and my friend had kept calling me, 'cause she was worried I was mad at her for being such a bitch during prom, which was kind of exciting.
• 58:46
  And then Haji had called me, and that was terrifying. That was very much my speed of being like, "I wish, I, I wish boys liked me. Oh, no. Oh, shit. A boy likes me. What am I gonna do now?"
• 58:55
  Woke up to Haji- And so- On your answering machine, I'm assuming? He left a voi- he left a message with my mom, I think. So- Oh... and I don't remember. Can I say something? I, we, it's been- The bravery- Yes...
• 59:06
  that our generation required to call someone's home, their most intimate place, undoubtedly speak to a parent. You had to fucking- Yeah... put yourself out there. Now these fucking kids- Mm-hmm...
• 59:18
  they're like, "I'll break up with her over text and see you later." Yeah. Never see your face again. Yeah. I know. I agree. All right.
• 59:24
  Well, TBD, I'll let Paul continue to scope ahead for your boys to let them know what lays ahead for them, and- Yeah. I mean- I'm, I'm glad... Well, to, true say, actually on the other side of it, his... If he...
• 59:35
  I got a... There, there is a mom, a boy mom text now that's going on about the boys who are gonna meet up ahead of homecoming and take pictures. Mm-hmm, sure. And I think go.
• 59:42
  And I think we moms are all just relieved that they have friends and a plan, and we don't care any- about anything else, and that's where we are.
• 59:50
  Who's gonna be the first mom on the chat to talk about how handsome their son looks, and use the word handsome? There's one mom whose son doesn't wanna go, but she still wants to go and take pictures, so that is- Okay...
• 1:00:01
  whatever. High school remains the worst, so. The fucking worst. I told Charlotte this week, I was like, "It's not that we don't support you. We fully support you. Everything about your experience is terrible.
• 1:00:11
  It's terrible for everyone forever. There's no way to avoid it [laughs] but also get on the fucking school bus." Yeah. [upbeat music] That's it for this week.
• 1:00:29
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• 1:01:33
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