Latest / Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding / 41. Building Client Experiences That Actually Drive Engagement with Julie Littlechild

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41. Building Client Experiences That Actually Drive Engagement with Julie Littlechild · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control, and I'm not feeling that way.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: That's an opportunity for the advisor.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
0:27
SPEAKER_00: It's all important.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, hi.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: I should probably introduce myself.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, and today I am thrilled, selfishly really thrilled.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I was sharing with this person before that one of the reasons I like having a podcast is so that I can meet really cool people or people that I've admired from afar.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And today is that day I have on the show, we have on the show, Julie Littlechild with us, uh CEO, founder of Absolute Engagement.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And I am really excited for this conversation.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Julie, thank you so much for being willing to come on and to share all of your wisdom, all of your greatness here today.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm excited.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: This is look, you're right in the space that interests me.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: So I'm right there with you.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love being in the trenches, especially with other great women.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: So it has definitely been a space that has continued to grow near and dear to my heart.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, before we start having a really awesome conversation, can we take maybe just a few minutes?
2:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how you came into founding Absolute Engagement, a little bit about Absolute Engagement.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Maybe give us some context there.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: I always say, you know, it was an emergent strategy.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: If you'd asked me a long time ago if I would what I would be doing, I couldn't have told you, but it evolved.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I after I finished business school, I worked with a small company and we were doing practice management coaching and consulting and research with financial advisors.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: That's when I first got into the industry.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And what became really apparent was every time we were in these engagements, and I'd say, well, but what do your clients want?
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Nobody had an actual answer to that question.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: There was this just this deep assumption that, you know, this is how it's done.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: And we began at that point to say, well, why don't we ask them a few questions and why don't we do a quick survey or what have you?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, and then you fast forward, and that became the effectively the basis of the entire business was just this idea that we've got to involve the client somehow, we've got to co-create.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And so that was really the starting point.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: And then we started primarily as a business with capturing feedback and helping firms to measure the experience, to understand needs and expectations.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: And we've been doing that for many years.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: And then the evolution of the business alongside that was a couple of years ago, we actually leaned heavily into technology and created engagement technology that said, yeah, it's great to get feedback.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: We need that, keep doing that.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: But really, what advisors need is to be able to accelerate growth and drive engagement is to get relevant data at key touch points all the way across the journey and to integrate that into how they work.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: And so that is the platform that we focus on today.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Like I get a little giddy hearing you talk about that.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: And you said something there that just really, I think, speaks to me and where my passion also lies in co-creating an experience.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And so coming from, you know, for myself, coming from the mental health space, we would use a term called a treatment team approach.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And it was about, it includes like the client and it includes a psychiatrist or a nutritionist, a therapist.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: But it was really, as you just, you know, kind of shared, it was about let's co-create a plan together, right?
5:21
SPEAKER_01: It can't just be these experts saying what it should or might be, right?
5:26
SPEAKER_01: And nor the other side either.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Like we have to really work together.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I love just that idea of and using technology too, but you know, engaging the client, asking the client, and then let's co-create an experience together to help drive better engagement, better results there.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: And and healthcare is interesting because there's so much research on the level of adherence to the plan when patients are involved in some of that, even taking meds and different things.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: It's so I know I I read a fair bit about that over the years, and it's it's quite fascinating to see.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: It definitely is.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a lot that you and I could talk about, a lot, a lot, Julie, that we could that we could probably talk about and nerd out about.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: But I would love to learn a little bit more about this framework that you have, the experience innovation framework.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: And there's three, I don't know if you would call them pillars.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: I I think I should just be quiet right now and just let you just kind of take over.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: But share with us a little bit about just kind of this idea, this framework.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a core concept of absolute engagement.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: Can we dive into that a little bit?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And and like I love a good framework.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: There's just my brain works in a certain way.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: I need frameworks, I need to see how everything connects together.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And so I do people laugh at me all the time because I try to make everything a framework, but um, but that's okay.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm comfortable with that.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've been hyper focused on the prospect and client experience.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if I if I started from the day I got into this industry, what we think about would look very different from today.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: It's evolving.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: And so the evolution of that experience has been a real interest and passion of ours at absolute engagement.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And the framework also has evolved in a sense.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: So we've talked, it feels like forever, about creating an engaging experience, like creating a more personalized, human-centered experience, not just the advice that's being delivered.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's critical.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: It's the pillar, the core concept, but the entire experience from the events and the communications and the process.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And yet we found that a lot of advisors would talk about experience and talk about engagement, but really the implementation was about creating a more efficient experience.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's important.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to say it's not, but you know, get our CRM in place, create workflows, you know, a lot of this.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: And so over time, and with the input of some great advisors, we do a lot of research with top-producing advisors, and we talk to them about their pain points around experience.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting to the framework in a second, but the pain points tended to be about efficiency, right?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, oh, that's interesting.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So we're creating experiences because we're responding to our pain points every day.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Like it feels inefficient.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: But then we said, looking forward, you know, how do you see experience going?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And they talked about culture and team and training and personalization.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: And so that, okay, so we're just on a path.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: They just have to get out of it.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: So the framework really just shows the evolution from an efficient experience, which is where we start.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And efficiency is about, you know, creating a frictionless, consistent service, good, just good service, what you'd expect.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And then once that's in place, the evolution is really to an engaging experience.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: So layer onto that now more personalization around the needs and concerns and the challenges of clients in what's delivered.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: And then the final piece, we actually only added recently, and it just came out of work with advisors, and it's an enduring experience.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And what we came to realize is particularly with larger firms, that the next stage was really more structural internal.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: So, how is the team structured?
9:27
SPEAKER_00: What is the culture?
9:28
SPEAKER_00: How do they collaborate and communicate around experience?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Who has accountability for it?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, so, and when you do that, it's almost like adding fuel to the fire.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: But you don't start there.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And rarely do you have the luxury because you probably don't have a team at the at the beginning.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: But that's really the path, efficient in uh engaging and then enduring.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: I loved that path as you as you just shared.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one, it just makes a lot of sense in my mind from a model of change when I think about just how change happens.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when I was reading like on LinkedIn, like somebody you're saying, and I was like, this, yeah, this totally connects.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: This makes a lot of sense.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And from where I'm just kind of understanding you, please correct me if I'm wrong.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like where a lot of the focus or emphasis, yeah, focus or emphasis has previously just been on this like friction, creating like less friction.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Can you just share maybe like why do advisors just focus on that?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are they?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It sounds easy.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just focus on the pain and solving the pain.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: But like, maybe are there, is there other stuff there that advisors, if they're thinking, like, oh yeah, I kind of do that, like, but isn't that, shouldn't I be focused on just that?
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And won't that solve, you know, a lot of this?
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Can we stay maybe just there in that place for a little bit and share a little bit more?
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I think you're right, first off, that it's not easy, but it's easier to focus on efficiency, right?
10:53
SPEAKER_00: None of this is easy when you're trying to lay the foundation, especially with technology evolving the way it is.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: But if you talk to all the employees and the and the advisors and you ask what's wrong, they're probably going to tell you something related to a process or and it and it's almost like you're dragged back to this.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: We get how to deliver good service, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_00: That is a well-worn concept.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: The concept of engagement is still something that we're getting our heads around a little.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: I think people have a definition of it in their own head.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: They want to deliver it, but we don't have the same sort of common standards for that.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: The and then I think the other piece of it that might stop us is that there's this assumption that we can apply technology to efficiency, right?
11:44
SPEAKER_00: It's all uh there's an answer, but engagement, that's a human thing.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's true.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: But as soon as we say that, it's almost like we're leaving it up to the advisor to just use their superpowers.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: They're going to engage during conversation, they're going to engage in a meeting, but we tend not to think about it broadly in terms of, well, how are the needs of clients reflected in the entire experience?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a newer concept.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's, it's, you know, it's we talk about personalization a lot in this industry.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: It goes hand in hand with engagement and how we can respond.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: So I think the white space is almost where that human side of things meets technology.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: How can technology help advisors actually connect and, you know, have the insights that they need to connect and so on and so forth?
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, and as I've kind of heard you share too, but like engagement and satisfaction are two different things.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And like I'm like thinking just through where I hear a lot of advisors they share that there might be a false belief that their client is engaged because they're satisfied, you know, and that's not that's not the same thing.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Satisfaction and engagement like are not the same thing.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't thought about it until I just heard you say this, but that definition of what does engagement actually look like, there's a lot of ambiguity, a lot of ambiguity there.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: We when we do research, we have to define it.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: But it's our definition.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Like we define the outcome of it to measure it.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: And in what we've used is, you know, when you're a five out of five on satisfaction and you've provided a referral, that's kind of it puts you in a different state.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Not net promoter score, would you refer, but like have you referred?
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And then what we were able to do in the data is sort of reverse engineer from there and say, well, when people are in that engaged category, what's different about the relationship?
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And what you began to realize is, you know, a much deeper understanding of my needs.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: They focus on the family.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: It's not just about we meet often enough and they have good technology.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: It's this sense of, like we always say, is like being seen, heard, and understood, right?
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Like so many.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: When that happens, you have engaged.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: How do we do that at scale?
14:00
SPEAKER_00: That starts to become, I think, the challenge that we think about.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and part of that framework, right, is is then moving in order to be able to do that.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: If I'm understanding this framework too, you have to move away from or beyond just efficiency.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Engagement has to, if we're, if that's what we're working towards, we have to then go beyond efficient, right?
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Like that's important.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Efficiency is important, it does matter, but we can't just stop there, right?
14:26
SPEAKER_01: We have to then move, move beyond that.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: But then you said too, as part of this framework, like you guys have now kind of taken a next level, Julie, like this enduring um kind of concept and as like a team and use the word like team culture there too.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit, I guess, maybe about that piece.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: What's the connection there between that enduring part?
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, how does that help then from just an overall client engagement?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it it sort of almost democratizes the whole idea of engagement across the firm.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: It creates a shared vision and value, and that starts to permeate every interaction almost naturally.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: So, like to give you a quick example, when when we talk about engagement, and you know, that often if I'm speaking, I'll use this example of Joshi the giraffe and Ritz Carlton.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Like every, I don't know if you've heard this in presentation, but it's like everybody's heard about this stuff.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I won't bore you with the details.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, at the end of the day, the staff at Ritz Carlton did something extraordinary for a family.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: And that keeps getting touted as an example of experience.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: I think that's an example of culture because their staff are so sensitized to needs that they see an opportunity and they step into it.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Experience to me is more the stuff you can standardize and still create something great and extraordinary.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: But it's so, yeah, that's creating a culture of who we are, what our clients expect, what we'll do for our clients becomes um, and then collaborating on ideas with the team, getting their buy-in creates this incredible.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, Gallup for years has talked about team engagement or employee engagement and client engagement, and two plus two kind of equals five.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: When you get all of those things pulling in the same direction.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: The other part of enduring, though, and this is again more for larger firms, is the structure.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting to me because we work with a lot of very large RIAs, and rarely do we see anyone with the title chief client experience officer as a sole role.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Until you're into the 15, sometimes$20 billion range, it's always I'm an advisor plus the chief client experience officer.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's fine.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, but what we're seeing again is this evolution of almost professionalizing how we think about this.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's not an easy role.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: So kudos to anybody who does that.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: But that's also part of that enduring nature.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Have you found just from like that research, are there any you mentioned maybe a dedicated role and sometimes that's easier for you know larger firms?
17:10
SPEAKER_01: But I guess uh using the Ritz Carlton uh story, uh, which I love.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I agree with you actually that it is not that is more of a it's a reflection on the culture.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: But are there specifics that advisors, even if they're smaller firms, you know, maybe they're not large, but are there any specific examples of like from that enduring place?
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Like what do they do?
17:32
SPEAKER_01: What do they do differently?
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think, you know, if they're they're smaller, they're the they're still collaborating with the team, even if it's a small team, they're looking for ideas.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think the ways that they are really bringing engagement to the fore are many.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: So engagement could be, again, this is just an example I might use a lot because we see it a lot, is is how you run a meeting with a client.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Let's assume a good standardized process is you use Calendly or something, or however, you get the meeting booked, you meet X number of times a year, you send an agenda in advance with the top line blank that says tell us what you want to talk about.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got a process in place, very efficient.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: And then some advisors are just great at digging deep once they're in there.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you guys are great at talking about the kind of questions that can draw that out.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: To make a more that make that process engaging, A, you need the right questions, you need to have the right conversations.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And we believe you need to draw out what's peop on people's minds before the meeting.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: So what's keeping them up at night?
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Where are the differences between the couple?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Are there differences between the family?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And really co-create back to that word, the agenda based on what they're experiencing.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Now you've gone from an efficient experience to an engaging experience.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh that can be a small firm, but it could move from sending content once a month because it looks good and interesting to everyone, to segmenting and sending personalized content based on stated needs or interests or concerns.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Like these are just all ways that I f think firms are are moving in that direction of deeper engagement.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the kind of phrase or concept of client experience, I'm seeing it a lot more.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: I was at feature proof earlier this year, and it was talked about a lot uh everywhere.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And and understandably, like it was, you know, it I don't mean to say everywhere is in like, oh my gosh, I'm like, but like it's just it's right now it's top of mind.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: And some of that I understand is because client ex in this age of technology with AI, like client experience is going to matter.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: And I do believe it will start to matter.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: Clients will look at it, you know, pretty strongly.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's like the, you know, it's been talked about for years, this idea of an experience economy, right?
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Moving from delivering a product to delivering an experience.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And yet, in a way, I think our industry is coming to realize that this can be a true differentiator, but it can also deliver a much better experience for the client, which, you know, we all care about deeply.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think this is where you guys come into play too, because sometimes what I'll say we on like the professional side, what we might think is a great experience uh or is a great idea, it just may not land as well, or it might just kind of miss the mark.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: And so going back to that co-creating, I think that's where having that feedback from the client end around what is working and what is what is not.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: I I would imagine there have been gaps there around what advisors think and what clients think.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Are there any, I don't know, any insights there that you guys have found from that gap around what clients think versus what advisors think?
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think to me the the biggest gap is almost this perception that we have in the industry and as advisors that we're going to find the gaps on service.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So, right?
21:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's not like this satisfaction is very high in this industry.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's because we're delivering on core service expectations.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: That is the correlation.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Deliverer exceeds on core service expectations, people are satisfied.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: The bigger gaps tend to come from how people are feeling.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we have a confidence index.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: It looks at, you know, a sense of control and clarity, and that's the biggest satisfaction gap is someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not feeling that way.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: That's an opportunity for the advisor.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: It's it's all it's all important.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: And I always feel like I'm bashing that.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be if you don't have any workflow, don't even bother.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Like you're not getting anywhere.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to me that of consistently now we do the satisfaction gap.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: What's important?
22:16
SPEAKER_00: How satisfied are you?
22:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's always how the client is feeling.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Biggest gaps right now for the last several years.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: So let's focus on that.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, that's so that's so interesting.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: And I I laugh just because like I know.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: So is the answer, right?
22:33
SPEAKER_01: So my husband, he's a CFP, and you know, he the technical stuff, like he's brilliant at, and I do he doesn't give himself enough credit.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: I think that he does a great job with clients on the more emotional side, maybe than what he gives himself credit for.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: But I also know that what you just said, like the pausing and stuff, and let's tease out some of the, let's just take a moment.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, can we just pause the agenda and take a moment and just tease out some of these feelings?
23:00
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be an entire 52-minute long therapy session.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it can just be a moment.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: And and I would imagine that that might go a long way in closing that gap there.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: It's huge.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what emerges just from a set of simple questions and the differences in couples is the other thing that I just find.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not that it's been ignored.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: It just hasn't been tackled in the right way, I think.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: So any advisor I talk to worth worth his or her salt is gonna say, I try to get couples there, I pause, I look in the other one's direction, if if likely she, but maybe he or she is not the most engaged.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, check for understanding.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: I always think it's like when somebody talks to somebody who doesn't speak the same language and they talk louder and slower as if somehow that'll I don't make it.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: It's it's still a different language.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: It's literally like my family, like and when they go to Europe, it's like hello.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Or to the Mexican restaurant, or truly, to the Mexican restaurant.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so I'm just so embarrassed.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Like now that we've got that visual in our head, that's hysterical.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: But it's yeah, I like I think what's not striking people is they actually need to change the agenda and what they talk about, not try to convince the other person that what they're talking about is the right thing.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: And and and again, we found just by asking both of them questions in advance of a meeting and separately, this emerges.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: But you have to be very intentional about that.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And so hence, you know, changing the experience and that other person has thoughts and feelings, you're just not hearing them.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, we could sit here and talk couples all day, Julie, because they are they are my they are my jam.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, one of the things that you've mentioned a few times about having clients fill out or answer questions prior to the meeting.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I hear from advisors a worry of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: They're busy already.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, or what do I do if they just don't fill it out or if they don't like do it?
25:24
SPEAKER_01: There's this worry like in concern.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: And I know it comes from a good place of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just curious, like, what would you say maybe to advisors who are worried about ask?
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's brilliant.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Ask those questions, send them out like ahead of time.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: But what would you say to advisors who might be worried or concerned about uh doing that?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and look, I'm completely biased because our technology does this.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: So I've I I see it a lot.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: I I I watch it and there's a couple of big differences here.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I think one is that there's ways to do it well.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Doing it well means maybe asking for two or three minutes of someone's time and asking three or four questions that aren't complex, but really just kind of hit at how they're feeling in the moment.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, because where we go wrong is you see advisors going, I'm gonna do that.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And then they start asking a lot of financial questions or so this isn't the time for that.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: That's your job in the meeting.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's focus on how people are feeling.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: And then rather than it be, you know, feel like a survey or something, which nobody wants to do in advance of a meeting, it's just part of booking a meeting.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I want to see you at Thursday at 10.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And then the positioning is really to ensure that we're focused on exactly what matters to you.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Can you just answer a few questions?
26:44
SPEAKER_00: So now it's taken me three minutes to book a meeting instead of one minute to book a meeting.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: And we actually see incredibly high response rates on that front because of the positioning and the immediate impact.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Now you sit down and you address what they said.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, next time 100%, they're doing that right because it drove the conversation.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad to hear you say that because it's validating to at least maybe some of where I come from is just like just ask and just just do it.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be this big grand thing.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a 20 question like survey with large text box.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Like it can just be, as you said, like a few just like simple questions that maybe get plugged into the calendar, like booking.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: But having that information, I think it it's helpful just from an engagement standpoint.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: But in my mind, too, it also communicates to the client that the advisor cares, that they they are interested, they value, you know, you client more than just like the numbers, like part.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Like they they're concerned with the whole being.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's also a communication piece, but you know, both ways, but it's it does send a mess.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I think it can send a message to clients that might help with their engagement.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: So I think most advisors, if they don't do this, sit down and say, look, is there anything that you want to talk about?
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Right?
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just polite.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: That's where we start.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: The problem, I think, with human beings is that's a hard question to answer in the moment.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: So hard.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Right?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, I don't like, don't you know what we're supposed to talk about?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Or I'm here to talk about my portfolio.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: So obviously I'm gonna say that's most important because that's why I'm sitting here.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: But again, just some well-crafted, simple questions draws out things that they wouldn't have even thought about sharing in that moment.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the key is how can we draw it out of people and understand the context for great advice?
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Because that's what this is at the end of the day.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people dismiss engagement strategies because it feels too soft or it's just a nice thing.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: It actually helps you deliver better advice.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And at the, you know, the end of the day, that's what we're trying to do here.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: So I don't see it as that soft at all.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of in this vein of asking about, you know, from a meeting standpoint, asking a few questions on like the front and prior to the meeting, getting some feedback there.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: But I know there's other ways that advisors and you guys like seek to get client satisfaction and feedback and some of where, you know, conversations that I've been a part of, it's how often do we get feedback from clients?
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Like how often like should we be asking, where does this, where does this fit into our workflow?
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Um it does have to ultimately.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: It does, right?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, but where should we put it like into our process?
29:41
SPEAKER_01: It makes me laugh just our the beginnings of our conversation there.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: But I would be curious to know like your answer there.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, how often should advisors be seeking out feedback, whether it's satisfaction or what have you?
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, the first thing I would think about is differentiating feedback and input.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: So feedback is about the advisor.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: How am I doing?
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Right?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Input is more about the client.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: What are you feeling?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking?
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: And though it sounds nuanced, but it does change the cadence a little bit.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So if we're thinking feedback, and I would include in that, like you said, net promoter score, satisfaction, maybe expectations and preferences, you know, how do you want to digest content?
30:24
SPEAKER_00: What topics are of interest?
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a set of questions that you can ask.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: I would say the vast majority of advisors that we work with are doing something once a year on that.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: The difference is they're doing a deep dive every two to three years and more of a quick check-in in intervening years, so that they're not, you know, the worst mistake we see is people asking the same questions of their clients every year when it's not a fluid data point.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: So if I said to you, Ashley, how often do you want to meet?
30:54
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this year you said twice a year, there's a really good chance next year it's going to be twice a year, like unless something's changed in your life, right?
31:03
SPEAKER_00: So we don't need to ask all those questions every year.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Every two to three years, you're good.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: So that's the feedback part of it.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: The input is more at those points in time.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: So it could be before a meeting, it could be right after they're onboarded, it could be after an event, you know, it's just that one-to-one point in time.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, you should get it that way if it's fluid data.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: So feelings.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: That the other big mistake we see is people will do their annual survey and they'll ask about, you know, what are you concerned about?
31:35
SPEAKER_00: For example, it's a good question.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: We get some great data.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: That data could be stale a week from now because we're human, right?
31:42
SPEAKER_00: So we've got to match the type of data we're trying to get with the cadence and when it's when it's asked.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: But that feedback process, you know, again, you know, every two to three years takes seven, eight minutes to complete.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: In the intervening years, something that maybe takes five max.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: It's not a lot to ask for clients, but my goodness, do you get good data on, you know?
32:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious from like a starting out point, if there are advisors that are like, oh, like Julie just blew my mind.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Feedback like versus input, right?
32:17
SPEAKER_01: What?
32:18
SPEAKER_01: What?
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Like that is a I've not thought about it in that way.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, maybe some starting points, easy just starting points for let's just say in on the input side.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what are one to two maybe just starting points?
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think on the true input side, it's it's more about that point in time.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: So it would probably go to before a meeting or something like that.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Like we just talked about.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: So what are your concerns?
32:45
SPEAKER_00: What is what's your level of confidence?
32:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are ways to actually ask these questions, but that's what you're trying to understand.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you can mix the two in a survey.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: But if I took the starting point, so most advisors I talk to say they don't have anything in place right now.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I feel like I should be getting something more from my clients.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: The majority do start with some sort of point-in-time survey of all clients.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't have to be long, but let's understand satisfaction.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Let's understand confidence of our clients, like how are you doing on that front?
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Let's understand what they're interested in learning about and talking about.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And maybe, and for most, I'd say there are ways to tease out referral opportunities as part of that, still within a, you know, five, six questions, maybe.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: It's it's an easy place to start, but you you really get incredible data back.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: So now you've got, you know, what they care about, so you can, you know, create some content around that.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: You know what they're interested in, so you can focus on that in the in the conversation, and you know how you're doing and what you can improve on.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Quick, easy place to start.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: I would I know that sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: We hear something and then we think we have to do a complete overhaul or we have to do all the things.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that comes from a place of excitement, sometimes it's from a place of panic.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think having those points that you mentioned, just kind of one or two places, like let's just focus there and then kind of build and grow.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: On the on the feedback side, would there be anything different then that you would share as far as some kind of easy, simple starting places?
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think those, you know, again, typical feedback is going to be satisfaction, net promoter score, that that sort of thing.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: So you could do that together.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Like you could not as much as I separated them, if I was just starting out and wanted to do one simple thing and not create a whole big process around it, I would do that five, six question survey of clients that mixed a little of the two just to dip your toe in the water, not have to create more process around that.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna it's gonna feed um some really, you know, powerful, powerful insights.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, and then just you know, you position it in terms of what what's in it for the client and why this matters.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: And it can be just doing it can be a benefit.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Like there's interesting connections between asking for feedback and more referrals, just asking for it, which is kind of crazy.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that part, just do it part, right?
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we just have to get in there and just do it.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: This interesting fear, you may be able to answer this um better than I, but I've often asked people why they don't ask for feedback.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they'll say, Well, people are over surveyed.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: And I have lots of, I can explain that away.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: It's often fear like what if somebody actually tells me I'm doing a bad job, which has never been borne out in our data, by the way, ever.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: But this there's a funny sense of fear, I think, that we have around this.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it's risky, right?
35:48
SPEAKER_01: And I I think it, you know, it for my, I'm like, well, it's a risk.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: And from a place of vulnerability or emotional risk, we're not great as humans.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: We're not quite built that way.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: We're not built that way, right?
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm maybe oversimplifying it there, but I'm like, yeah, feedback is scary.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: It's risky, it's vulnerable.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: So that would make sense to me, but still, it still can be helpful and and even even great.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: I often remind people that if someone is dissatisfied, they're still dissatisfied whether you asked them or not.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Like you didn't actually change anything about that, right?
36:25
SPEAKER_00: And I've been asked this question could it cause somebody to like almost go, oh yeah, they're not doing a great job.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: No, don't worry about that.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's somebody trying to overcomplicate and and excuse it away.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: But oh gosh, I that is so brilliant, Julie.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: They are gonna be, they are still dissatisfied.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Whether you ask or not, they're still dissatisfied.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is so brilliant.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, sadly, our time is wrapping up, but I want to connect some of what we've just been talking about to, you know, I'd love for you to do a little bit of self-promotion here with absolute engagement.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Tell us like where people can find you, tell us all of those things and how you guys can be helpful for advisors and firms.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so look, we live our lives around this core concept of delivering a deeply engaging experience.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: The piece in that process, because there's many ways to do that.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Piece that we play, and the thing we've always believed is that advisors don't have the right data to do this.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Like in some ways, they're drowning in data, in some ways they don't have the right data on how people are thinking and feeling.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So, what we do and how we position what we do is accelerating growth and engagement using the data, real-time data on the true needs of prospects and clients.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: So, we've built out tools to make that easy to do.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's called the Absolute Engagement Engine.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: You can learn about that at absoluteengagement.com.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: But we don't try to solve all the world's problems, but we do try to really lean in on the fact that most advisors are just missing opportunities because they don't have this data.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: We'll make sure that we include that link in the show notes.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: And Julie, if people want to just hang out with you, um read a little bit more about you, other than heading over to the website, where else can they find you?
38:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm on LinkedIn.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: We try to share everything on LinkedIn.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: And uh on the site, we also have our blog.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: So uh there's no commitment there.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to book a meeting.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: You can just subscribe and we'll send out all the new research there.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Julie, for coming on and sharing all of your insights, all of your wisdom.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for tuning in today and allowing Julie and I into your mind, into your ears, and being a little bit of part of your week here.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: And if you want even more Ashley Kwame or even more Julie, you can head over to the show notes to find all of the links where you can connect and stay with us.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Make sure, though, that most importantly, you follow the show so that you never miss a future conversation like this one.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: And as always, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
39:31
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39:37
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39:42
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39:51
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40:04
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40:08
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