Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / Pregnancy, Engagement, & Law Are Delicious w/ Sarah Moise

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Pregnancy, Engagement, & Law Are Delicious w/ Sarah Moise · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
  And the reason why it was our only date is because
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  one of us actually cared about the date and the
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  other one forgot and didn't even care to dress
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  up at all. I'm kind of sending her a text like,
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  oh yeah, just confirming that we're still good.
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  And then she was just like, oh shit, I forgot,
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  hold on. And I see her and she literally looks
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  like she just got done painting walls like two
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  seconds ago. Her hair was ruffled. She had like
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  really stained clothes. Hey, delishies, grab
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  a plate and taste the delicious culture. I'm
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  your host, John Francois. We are feasting on
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  food, pop culture and lifestyle with my cousin,
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  Sarah Moise. I'm in Vermont. Sarah is in our
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  home state of Connecticut. She's got a lot of
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  great things happening in her life to share.
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  We're going to talk about it. It's going to be
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  fun. Hi, Sarah. Hi, John. How are you? You can
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  call me Nata. I told this time. I was like, I
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  didn't know. I know you introduced yourself as
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  John, but I was like, if I come in here and say
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  NASA and you like cuss me out, I'm gonna be like...
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  Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. No, no. When
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  Natalie, my sister, Natalie and Diane came on
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  the podcast a little while ago, uh, they, we
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  ran into that same awkward thing. Uh, and actually
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  it was like kind of the reverse where Natalie
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  was like, uh, not to, oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't
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  have called you. It's like, no, no, no, no, no,
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  no. No, you, you, the family can call me not
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  to, which is for people who didn't listen to
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  that center's episode with Natalie and Diane.
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  Uh, it is a weird Haitian way of, of saying Nathan
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  because Nathan is a part of Jonathan, my full
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  name. It's, it's a whole thing. that we don't
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  have to get into. Yes. Okay. Perfect. Cause I
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  was thinking about that. I was like, do I call
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  him Nata? Do I call him John? Like which one
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  do I want? Do I call him Jonathan? Like which
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  one? Call me the family name that you called
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  me for the last, I don't know, 26, 27 years.
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  My entire life. Yeah, your entire life. Yep.
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  And for people who are not family and not Diane,
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  because Diane I think is the only friend who
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  is not family who calls me Natan. Uh, everybody
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  else calls me John, Jonathan, whatever. So that's,
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  that's, that's what, that's what we go by. Okay,
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  good. Ah, so you know what? I love what you did
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  here. So, you know, for listeners and viewers,
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  they know that lately we've been kind of having
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  a common thread with all the guests where I asked
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  three questions, you know, your favorite delicious
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  food, your delicious pop culture, a delicious
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  thing that's happened in your life lately. Um,
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  and what I've been doing more recently is like
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  getting into the guest story and then gradually
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  working up to the three questions. What I loved
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  is that like the delicious thing that's happened
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  in your life lately pretty much is your So it's
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  kind of like threading, you know, everything
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  into one thing and making it concise. So I love
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  it. So you just got, is it, is it pronounced
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  Bard or Baird? Bard. I just got Bard. Yes. You
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  just got barred as an attorney. Congratulations.
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  Thank you. Thank you. It's still so weird. Cause
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  people come to me with their problems and I'm
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  like, I'm just a baby. Like I don't know how
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  to solve this. So wait, tell me the whole thing.
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  Cause I, I mean, I went to your, uh, I think
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  you had that law school graduation party over
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  there in Connecticut and it was a great time.
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  But yeah, just tell me the journey from like
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  you realizing you wanted to do law too. deciding
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  to study law to now where you are today, like
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  just give me all the details on that. It's actually
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  so funny because I had an idea that I was like,
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  you know what, I want to do something in the
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  law field. But by the time I think I was like
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  a sophomore or even junior in high school, I
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  was more so like, you know what, the social worker
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  thing, like I'm loving it. This is where I want
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  to be. This is what I want to do. And I remember
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  just like interning with DCF and doing like projects
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  with them and like. very much so being like,
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  oh, this is what I want to do. This is what I'm
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  going to go to school for, whatever. And I remember
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  my dad just being like, you want to be a social
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  worker? You don't want to be a lawyer for social
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  worker? And I was like, oh. Like maybe, but like
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  not really. So then it's like something that
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  was like in the back of my head, but it wasn't
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  anything that I was like, okay, this is what
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  I want to do. Then I went to college and again,
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  I'm like, you know what, let me see what these
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  law classes are about. Let me see what I can
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  study, what I can get. I did some like social
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  work. working class and I was like, I don't know
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  what I want my major to be, but then I ended
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  up doing like crim law and then that changed
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  to justice and law administration. And I just
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  kind of loved the work. I think what scared me
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  more so was like the litigation aspect, but there
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  was just so much like. doing forensic science,
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  getting into that, going into different cases
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  and hearing people's stories really what drew
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  me to it. So I was like, okay, I can do this.
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  But still I was like, I don't know if this whole
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  lawyer thing's for me. Let me see what a paralegal
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  does. Like I wouldn't be a paralegal. So after
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  I graduated, I graduated when COVID hit. Oh yeah.
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  Perfect timing to start a career. But before
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  you get into that, like the, uh, so tell me like
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  what litigation is and why you were scared to
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  go into that. So litigation is when you actually
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  like argue in front of. a judge. Um, you go against
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  sides and you go, there's different types of
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  lawyers. You can be in house counsel, which is
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  just like, you do the stuff in house. Like you
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  go to companies, it's like a nine to five. It's
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  a desk job. You just sign contracts and like,
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  you're not really in the public space or you're
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  not in front of a judge. Litigation is like,
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  okay, I have to argue and I have to know these
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  and like be able to know the law and be able
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  to like think quick on my feet. And I am not
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  a public speaker. Not one bit. I mean, Sarah,
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  you seem very comfortable speaking in public.
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  I mean, including on this podcast here. Um, a
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  lot of people say I can't, I mean, no, you got
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  it. And if you are nervous and think you can't
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  do it, you hide it very well. Um, so, okay. So,
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  but you said you want to be, you were also thinking
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  about being a paralegal. Mm -hmm. And what is
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  that? So peer legal is like an assistant for
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  a lawyer. So they do everything under the sun
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  for a lawyer, except for a peer in court. So
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  it's like you're going to do the paperwork, you're
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  going to do the research, you're going to dive
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  in. And I was like, oh, I love that. Behind the
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  scenes, I can do what I need to do. And I don't
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  have to worry about that, like arguing in front
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  of a judge or doing this or doing that or like
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  that. pressure a lawyer gets. So wait, is a litigator
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  like some, is it kind of like, oh, the, the,
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  the, the prosecutor and the defense attorney,
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  the stars that you see in like a courtroom drama,
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  like picking center stage? Pretty much it's those
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  two people. Those are the litigators. Those are
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  like the people that go to trial. They go to
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  bat. They appear, they do whatever they need
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  to, to ensure that their client gets the best
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  outcome. So. So you graduated from where with
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  what kind of law degree? My undergrad, I graduated
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  Western Connecticut with justice and law admin,
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  but for law school, that's the misconception.
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  People think that you like graduate with like
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  a certain degree, but you have to learn all the
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  law and you can get certain concentrations. Like
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  I got my criminal concentration, but it was just
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  a normal JD juris doctorate degree. So. Once
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  you're done with that, it's like the big scary
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  bar comes next. And that's like the big test,
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  to be honest. OK, so criminal law, that's basically
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  what it sounds like, just studying everything
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  having to do with crime and criminals. Well,
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  literally, because it's like an undergrad. You
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  do your basic, your core, you learn everything.
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  But in law school, I just did everything criminal
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  law I did from advanced crime to just analyzing
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  how criminals' minds work and doing work with
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  the public defender's office. Like, I was just
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  so heavily involved in crime law. And it's so
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  funny because that's not the field I'm in at
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  all. What field are you in now? Oh, I practice
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  in family and law. Family and law or family law?
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  Family law. I just call it family and law. And
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  describe what goes into family law. So family
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  law is basically like... divorce, child support,
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  custody matters, guardianships, petition for
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  guardianships. It's basically anything under
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  the sun dealing with marriages and kids of the
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  marriage and how to basically make sure. the
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  kid's best interest is being taken care of, or
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  parties don't have kids, you're dealing with
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  marital property, division of marital property
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  and assets, everything under the sun that you
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  have to sort of untangle and undo when parties
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  get married. So you have your attorney's license
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  and family law. I haven't a license for anything.
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  I can practice whatever I want. Wait, okay. So
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  it's not a specialty. When we say you just got
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  barred as an attorney, clarify that for me. So
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  being barred as an attorney, you are, it's literally,
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  and I wish I brought it downstairs, it's this
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  piece of paper that says you can appear in court.
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  It doesn't specify what court you can appear
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  in. You can just appear in court of Massachusetts.
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  I can appear a court in Alabama. That's an interesting
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  story. Why is it interesting? Because Alabama
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  is a different beast. I know that. The reason
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  why I'm barred in Alabama, I took the bar in
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  Connecticut and every state has passing scores
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  and the lowest minimum passing is a 260 and then
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  the highest you can get is above, way above 270,
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  but that's the highest score that all the states
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  require. So if you get a 270, you can practice
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  over any jurisdiction. And that bar exam is basically
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  a review of all the law that you've studied.
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  Just federal law. Just federal law. They don't
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  test specific state laws. Once you pass it, then
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  the state itself, if you want to be barred in
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  it, you can take their own open book exam so
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  that you know it. But that's really for your
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  employer to teach you. what the laws are. So
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  I passed, I had a passing score for I think like
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  seven states, Alabama being one of them. Wait,
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  so each state has a different like minimum like
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  passing score requirement. So like, yes, it does.
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  So, so what, give me examples, like what, what
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  state? Like, so for example, Connecticut's 266.
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  Right. I got a 263. So there's like 10 states
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  that require 260 as a passing score. So why is
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  the, why is each state different from the other?
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  Is it just dependent on like how strict their
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  laws are? It's, I mean, it's up to them. The
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  bar is so weird because it's a lot of things
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  are like state specific. There's a pre -test
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  that you have to take before you can take the
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  bar, which is a professional responsibility exam,
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  which is just like an exam about like how you're
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  not going to rob your clients or like how you're
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  not going to act inappropriate with your clients.
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  And that also has a scaled score. So it really
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  is like... all up in the air, to be honest, because
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  it's the same example. It's the same exam throughout
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  the whole entire 50 states. It's the UBE. I know
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  some states don't do the UBE, but majority do,
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  so. It's the same exact questions. It's the same
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  exact essays that you have to write, but states
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  are just like, no, we're going to pass people
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  if it's a 260 or they score 270 or whatever.
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  So it really is state specific. There's like
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  no rhyme or reason behind it, which is so crazy.
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  What was the studying process like for you and
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  how many, I mean, is there like an amount of
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  times that they allow you to fail before you
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  could pass or do you have to like do it? Oh,
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  you can take it as many times as you want. They
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  only offer it twice a year. That's the guy. And
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  the thing is, the test is expensive. It's not
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  a cheap test. Yes. And how much? So for the exam
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  itself, for the application is $800. What? Oh,
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  God. It's just to sit in the room. Then you have
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  to do a character and fitness test, which can
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  range from zero. Some people add it in their
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  application fees, or you can spend like I had
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  to. What's the character and fitness test? Is
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  that like? Oh, they do a whole background check.
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  Like they'll go in 10 years or plus back in your
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  life to see if you've ever been arrested. If
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  you have a background, whatever they dig in,
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  but they charge you for that. So that's one other
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  cost. Then you have to also pay for using your
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  laptop because you can, you have the option of
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  handwriting, but the exam is a two day test,
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  six hours of writing. Like using your laptop
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  at their location or at home. No, at their location.
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  Like, bring your own laptop. You have to pay
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  for that. Because they think you'll cheat? No,
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  they just, they want to charge you. they won't
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  give you the software until you pay for it. How
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  much is that? That is like, I know it's going
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  to sound just, but that one's like $75 to like
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  $95. Much less than $800. No, very much so. So
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  you add it in there. And then obviously you have
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  like the travel expenses to take the exam, food
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  and lunch. So I think after everything and don't
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  forget the bar prep program, which is another
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  $1 ,500. depending on the program. Just a program
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  to prep you for the exam and what to expect?
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  Literally, yes. Because in law school, they don't
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  teach you how to take the exam. They teach you
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  the law. And then you have 10 weeks where they're
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  like, okay, you can figure it out. You're going
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  to study for this. You graduated. We kind of
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  owe you nothing. So you're self -teaching yourself
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  for an exam you've never seen, which is great.
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  So the total cost to take the bar is what? Everything,
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  everything included. Well, how much did you pay?
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  I would say up to $3 ,000. Okay. That's a hefty
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  amount. So to do that, and you're not working
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  at all during the process. And from passing the
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  bar, that's how you got barred as an attorney.
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  Yes. So I passed it for Alabama and then I had
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  to transfer my score to Massachusetts. That's
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  also, and that's something my job takes care
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  of. Thank God. Cause I was like, I'm not doing
• 14:16
  that again. What do you do for work? I work as
• 14:19
  a family law attorney. Oh, okay. That's your
• 14:21
  job title right now. Uh, and I'm sorry. You work,
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  you work in Massachusetts, Springfield. Yep.
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  I work at a public interest law office. Yes.
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  Got it. Got it. This is all making sense. Or
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  they call it a firm, my law firm. So to be approved
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  to appear in a courtroom as an attorney in Massachusetts,
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  their job is taking care of that for you as long
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  as you send the score to them. Yep. And I sent
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  that score. They did all the behind the scenes
• 14:48
  work. I had to get barred in Alabama so that
• 14:50
  they can bring the scores back and say that I
• 14:53
  passed in any jurisdiction. And Mass has this
• 14:56
  law that if you're working for public interest,
• 14:59
  then they'll let you practice. practice under
• 15:00
  any state license for two years. So I can practice
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  in mass for two years. I'm going to have to take
• 15:07
  the bar again this summer. Why? I thought you
• 15:10
  took it once and you're good to practice. If
• 15:13
  I want to stay in Massachusetts, I'm going to
• 15:16
  have to take the bar again because Massachusetts
• 15:18
  requires the highest passing score, which is
• 15:21
  270. So I'm going to have to do it all again.
• 15:25
  And again, thank God my job is covering When
• 15:28
  you work for a firm, they're like, we'll pay
• 15:30
  for the bar expenses. They're paying for a tutor.
• 15:33
  Like, it's all under them because I was like,
• 15:35
  that price is, it's pretty expensive taking it
• 15:38
  again and again. And that's just to make sure
• 15:41
  that after the two years expires, they don't
• 15:44
  have to like worry about, okay, what are we going
• 15:46
  to do? I've taken it and then I just have a permanent
• 15:49
  license and I could be licensed in Alabama, Connecticut
• 15:52
  and Massachusetts. Wait, so do you like, like
• 15:54
  when you take the bar you pass, do you send your
• 15:57
  score to like each of the 50 states yourself?
• 15:59
  Like how does that work to? It's wherever you
• 16:02
  want to be barred and wherever the state will
• 16:05
  allow your score. Like I could have sent it to
• 16:07
  10 different states. It just depends. And we
• 16:10
  did what was the cheapest and the best option
• 16:12
  for us. So that's why we sent it to Alabama.
• 16:15
  They're the cheapest? But yeah. They're the cheapest?
• 16:17
  They were. And I also, like I said, there's like
• 16:20
  this pre -exam that you have to take in some,
• 16:24
  like for Massachusetts, I couldn't take their
• 16:26
  exam unless I had like an MPRE score, which is
• 16:29
  that professional responsibility test of an 85
• 16:32
  or higher. So it also depends on that score.
• 16:35
  And some people don't even take that score before
• 16:38
  transferring. Like Connecticut, they don't require
• 16:40
  it. Alabama did. So I got like... I think a minimum
• 16:45
  passing score for it. So I was like, boom, we're
• 16:47
  just going to go quick, fast, easy. Took the
• 16:50
  application. Character and fitness was like two
• 16:53
  months. And then I got my license. And then,
• 16:55
  yeah, they, I have to pay for it. That's another
• 16:58
  thing. You have to pay for all the scores you
• 17:00
  want to transfer. So I had to pay to transfer
• 17:03
  my score. It was another $800 fee after everything.
• 17:08
  Per state or total? Per state. Because you have
• 17:11
  to transfer it. They have to do their own background
• 17:14
  check. No matter what state you're transferring
• 17:16
  to, it's always going to be $800 each. It could
• 17:19
  be 800 to 1200. Oh my God. Depending on the state.
• 17:24
  So if you want to be, you can be barred in all
• 17:27
  50 states. Bless your heart. If you get that
• 17:29
  270 score, the thing is you're going to have
• 17:32
  to pay for it. Wow. For each state. Is that your
• 17:35
  goal or are you okay with getting barred in just
• 17:37
  a few states? I'm okay with getting barred in
• 17:39
  just a few states. Again, my job paid for Alabama.
• 17:43
  So that's like a fun fact, but I think the only
• 17:45
  two states I'm going to be really like adamant
• 17:48
  about getting barred is Massachusetts and Connecticut.
• 17:52
  Cause you work in Massachusetts, you live in
• 17:54
  Connecticut. Yeah. So I'm like, just in case
• 17:56
  there's a job switch or whatever, those are the
• 17:59
  only two. Cause then it's like, it's almost like
• 18:01
  a lifetime commitment. Cause you have to pay
• 18:04
  every couple of years to renew your license.
• 18:07
  Well, I mean, obviously you love what you're
• 18:09
  doing if you're willing to pay that much money
• 18:12
  for it. So congratulations. And okay, so just
• 18:15
  to confirm for now, you legally can show up in
• 18:18
  a courtroom and do your thing in what states?
• 18:21
  In Massachusetts and in Alabama. Okay. Not in
• 18:24
  Connecticut yet? Not in Connecticut yet. No.
• 18:26
  So Massachusetts, obviously that's just a short
• 18:28
  drive away. Am I going to be hearing about you
• 18:30
  flying down to Alabama for somewhere? You never
• 18:32
  know. joke. I'm like, if my job needs me to go,
• 18:36
  I'm like, you know what, if they need somebody
• 18:38
  to practice in Alabama, cause a party moved all
• 18:41
  the way there and we need them back. They're
• 18:43
  going to call me. I hear Birmingham is nice as
• 18:47
  far as other parts of Alabama. I don't know.
• 18:49
  I don't know about that, but you know, you just
• 18:52
  stick with the cities. As long as you stick with
• 18:53
  the cities like Birmingham, I think you'll be
• 18:55
  safe. Literally. You bought a house with your
• 19:01
  fiance, Quest. Congratulations. You're in Enfield,
• 19:04
  Connecticut. Before that, I know, you know, you
• 19:06
  grew up in Bloomfield. You grew up with us in
• 19:08
  West Hartford, Connecticut. Can you remember
• 19:10
  how many years you were in Bloomfield and West
• 19:12
  Hartford? I think we were in Bloomfield. I want
• 19:14
  to say not even zero. I think we lived a little
• 19:17
  bit with our grandparents for like maybe a year
• 19:20
  or two. So I would say we were there for like...
• 19:22
  Yeah, that's definitely a memory I don't have,
• 19:25
  but I think it was like maybe five to six years
• 19:28
  I was in the Bloomfield. Yeah, five to six years
• 19:32
  we were in the Bloomfield house. Yeah, we had
• 19:34
  the big house, your parents, grandmother. I totally
• 19:39
  forgot about that. Oh my God, so long ago. I
• 19:41
  was thinking about the next house that you guys
• 19:44
  had in Bloomfield before you moved into the current
• 19:46
  house in West Hartford. Yeah, that one, I think
• 19:50
  that's the first memory I have. half of the house.
• 19:53
  I've only heard stories about us living with
• 19:56
  grandma and grandpa. But yeah, so apparently
• 19:58
  we were there. And then we were in Bloomfield
• 20:01
  for six years, and then for the rest of the 20
• 20:04
  years, 20 plus years, we've been in West Hartford,
• 20:07
  yeah. Yeah, it's been 20, more than 20 years
• 20:09
  that your parents have been in that West Hartford
• 20:12
  house, so yeah. Yeah, so. Ninin and Gito, as
• 20:16
  I like to call them. Yes. And I think they're
• 20:20
  renovating. They're doing whatever they need
• 20:23
  to do. They're slowly kicking us out one by one.
• 20:26
  So yeah, your older brother Rashmeal, his nickname,
• 20:30
  his middle name as well, Gregory, he has a house
• 20:32
  in Bloomfield and you have your house in Enfield.
• 20:35
  And I think your younger brother Andy is still
• 20:38
  there at mom and dad's house. Okay. All right.
• 20:41
  That's great that you have the house in Enfield.
• 20:44
  Tell me what that was like. Was it difficult
• 20:46
  to get the house and what made you choose Enfield?
• 20:48
  Like, what was the whole buying process like?
• 20:50
  The buying process was terrible. I just, not
• 20:54
  that it's like, no, I'm happy that we have a
• 20:57
  house, but I just think when they say the housing
• 21:01
  market is trash and everything is like. It's
• 21:04
  a struggle. It really is. And I was like, no,
• 21:06
  it's going to be fine. You just look at houses
• 21:08
  and then you pick one and then everything's great.
• 21:11
  From going through the mortgage company and the
• 21:14
  financing, because just a little backstory, the
• 21:17
  house in Springfield, Quest owns that. And he
• 21:20
  wasn't planning on selling it. Oh, so he already,
• 21:24
  he already owned a house before meeting you.
• 21:27
  Okay. Okay. And then Phil Connecticut. Oh, I'm
• 21:29
  sorry. In Springfield. So he owned that duplex,
• 21:34
  so he was just renting one side, living in one
• 21:36
  side. So now added to that is trying to figure
• 21:39
  out how we were going to do a move in rent. What
• 21:42
  we were going to do, because I think the biggest
• 21:44
  conversation was, was he going to go in on this
• 21:47
  loan with me, or was I going to take up the...
• 21:50
  first time home buying process and do all those
• 21:53
  benefits, because if he did, I wouldn't obviously
• 21:56
  qualify for that, because we wouldn't be first
• 21:58
  time home buyers. So we just decided that I was
• 22:01
  going to do it. by myself and put the loan in
• 22:04
  my name and that alone. Cause it's like, I just
• 22:07
  started working and they require like three plus
• 22:10
  years. So trying to maneuver that and figuring
• 22:13
  that out and having our budget was like half
• 22:16
  the battle before we could even look at houses.
• 22:19
  So that was like a lot. And then. So from first
• 22:23
  looking at the houses to finally what's, what's
• 22:26
  the expression signing the name on the dotted
• 22:28
  line, whatever the hell, basically from, uh,
• 22:31
  looking at houses to. being able to move into
• 22:33
  your house? Like how long did that, how long
• 22:35
  was it? So we started looking at houses, I want
• 22:37
  to say late November. 2025? Five. And then we
• 22:44
  moved into this one in March of 2026. And that's
• 22:48
  when we had like our closing date. So we were,
• 22:51
  yeah, I would say I don't know about six months
• 22:53
  it took us. to really find a house. I'm very
• 22:57
  much so like, if I see the first one, I'm buying
• 23:00
  it, it's in budget, let's do it. No, you're not
• 23:03
  picking as to where the house was, how far the
• 23:05
  commute from work would be. I think I was more
• 23:08
  concerned about the commute from work, but then
• 23:10
  it's like his parents live in Massachusetts and
• 23:13
  my parents live in Connecticut. So we wanted
• 23:15
  that even split. So we were looking at Enfield,
• 23:18
  Suffield, along just like that border. So it's
• 23:21
  like no more than a half an hour each side to
• 23:24
  our family. So we were just like open to anything
• 23:28
  and everything. And then once I would see a house
• 23:31
  that I liked, they say, you're never going to
• 23:32
  get the first house that you love. Yeah. Usually
• 23:36
  it's going to be a... a starter home and that's
• 23:41
  me and Tony's situation here in Vermont. We bought
• 23:45
  a house that was made in 1900 or 1901 and there's
• 23:49
  facets. I mean, you've been here up in Richford,
• 23:52
  Vermont. I mean, and, and we love the, you know,
• 23:55
  we love that we have our own space and it's definitely
• 23:58
  enough space for us and the five dogs and two
• 24:01
  cats that we have. But yeah, no, there, there's
• 24:04
  some torn down. Parts of the house that reminds
• 24:08
  you that it's a very old house that needs some
• 24:10
  work. So it's a work in progress So describe
• 24:14
  your house in Enfield describe what the interior
• 24:17
  looks like the the exterior looks like like So
• 24:20
  it's like it's brown and yellow an interesting
• 24:24
  color scheme Yeah brown and yellow or I guess
• 24:29
  is like maybe off -white, but it has a yellow
• 24:32
  tint to it And again, it's a, I think it's a
• 24:35
  raised ranch. I'm not too qualified on these
• 24:38
  house names. All I know is it's like, there's
• 24:40
  a first floor and we don't have a basement. So
• 24:43
  we have like a downstairs level with our laundry
• 24:46
  room. It's like just a big open space. Our garage
• 24:50
  and everything is attached. So that's super nice.
• 24:53
  And then we just have three bedrooms upstairs.
• 24:56
  The house came with a chicken coop. Oh, yeah.
• 25:00
  So chickens are gonna be in your future? Your
• 25:04
  mommy, Quest's mother, all think that's a great
• 25:07
  idea. I've heard they're easy to raise. Do you
• 25:10
  know, and maybe I will tap into that farm life
• 25:13
  girly error. I just don't know. how I'm feeling
• 25:18
  about that. Um, but yeah, it's, it's there when
• 25:22
  we need it. I will say that. So that's, that's
• 25:25
  wonderful, but it is not your perfect idea of
• 25:29
  a home because I think it's more rural. And like
• 25:33
  I said, I was already of the understanding that
• 25:36
  like the first house isn't going to. I don't
• 25:38
  think we were looking for that more like modern
• 25:40
  look. Um, it is, there's a lot of land and I'm
• 25:44
  like allergic to everything outside. So that's
• 25:47
  always like a fun thing. Uh, when you see it's
• 25:53
  like our property line extends really is it's
• 25:56
  far. However, it's just trees. turkeys, wildlife,
• 26:01
  everything outside. And I'm just like, you know
• 26:03
  what, we're just going to make do with it. Even
• 26:06
  like cutting the grass, sometimes I'll go outside
• 26:08
  and I just have to come back inside because like
• 26:11
  swollen eyes, sneezing. Are you like me? Because
• 26:13
  I have allergies so much so that I take Allegra
• 26:16
  every day. Do you take something every day for
• 26:17
  your allergies? I used to, but because I'm pregnant,
• 26:22
  I cannot. Oh, is that a thing? You can't, you
• 26:25
  can't. You have to like. Yeah, you got a simmer
• 26:29
  down on the medicine There's stuff that you can
• 26:32
  put up your nose, but I've never been one to
• 26:35
  like I'm not one for nasal sprays. Everything,
• 26:38
  to be honest, is all natural, and I've just been
• 26:40
  staying inside to avoid it at this point in time.
• 26:43
  The pollen here has been terrible, by the way.
• 26:45
  So, like, literally, working in the city of Burlington
• 26:48
  here in Vermont, I would drive for Uber and Lyft.
• 26:51
  That's what I do for a living. And I would see
• 26:53
  pollen flakes blow by like a windy snowstorm.
• 26:58
  It was insane. Like, you would see people's lawns,
• 27:01
  and it looked like snow. But it was just... It
• 27:05
  was pollen. I feel bad for fellow people who
• 27:08
  have allergies because I don't know why it's
• 27:12
  worse this year. Like usually like the pollen
• 27:16
  would be like more invisible and maybe you see
• 27:19
  like little specks here and there, but for whatever
• 27:21
  reason, it just decided to be its own storm and
• 27:25
  it's awful. No, it is so bad. Like it's, it's
• 27:30
  almost to the point where it's like. I felt like
• 27:32
  I had asthma because it's like sometimes you
• 27:34
  can't breathe and you're just like, what is this?
• 27:36
  And I would, I would just pray for rain at this
• 27:38
  point. I was just, I was hoping every day would
• 27:41
  rain just to wash it out. Oh my God. Well, I'm,
• 27:44
  I I'm different in that. I love, you know, hence
• 27:47
  why I'm here in Vermont. Uh, I love like a rural
• 27:52
  area. I love like lots of land. I mean, you know,
• 27:55
  turkeys and whatever. I mean, look, I I've told
• 27:58
  Tony, yeah, you know, what if we owned pigs and
• 28:02
  horses? But the reality is, is that I wouldn't
• 28:05
  know how to take care of it. She certainly doesn't
• 28:06
  have the time and energy to take care of all
• 28:08
  that. So I just want like, I've, I said my dream,
• 28:11
  if we win the lottery, let's get the biggest
• 28:14
  amount of land we, we, we can get maybe a big
• 28:17
  house to go with it. And I just have this vision
• 28:19
  of like seeing all the dogs run happily on their
• 28:22
  very big 20 ,000 acre thing of land. That's a
• 28:27
  dream, but. I get it. I mean, you know, you and
• 28:29
  I, we both grew up in a sort of like a city suburban
• 28:34
  hybrid in Connecticut. So you're either going
• 28:37
  to go to a rural setting and be like, Oh God,
• 28:41
  this is not for me. Or like me, you could be
• 28:45
  like, Oh, wow, this is actually a refreshing
• 28:47
  change of pace. So it just, you know, it depends.
• 28:49
  Everybody's different. And the crazy part is
• 28:51
  it's like the location. Once you come and see
• 28:54
  it. driving to it, you wouldn't expect it. Because
• 28:58
  it's like right there in Enfield Center. So there's
• 29:02
  every restaurant you can name, every store you
• 29:05
  can name right there by Enfield Mall. And then
• 29:07
  it's like you go into this like, we're also at
• 29:09
  a dead end street. We're the last house on the
• 29:11
  dead end street. So then you go in to this like
• 29:14
  little like neighborhood and it's like it's still
• 29:17
  the suburbs. But then it's just like it just
• 29:19
  gets rural and then you're just like. Oh my gosh,
• 29:22
  like all this land sounds great and it looks
• 29:24
  great, but also maintaining it. I was just not
• 29:27
  prepared for that either. You know what? So like,
• 29:31
  so you guys, would you, would you guys say that
• 29:33
  you have a big enough lawn where you feel like
• 29:35
  you get, you need to get one of those like car
• 29:38
  lawnmowers to make it work instead of a push
• 29:40
  one? And at this point, it's like, that's what
• 29:44
  our neighbors use. Quest is still young enough
• 29:46
  to push that lawn more, so he's doing it back
• 29:49
  and forth. But yeah, I'm seeing a lot. Like,
• 29:53
  that is the way to do it, because it's just nothing
• 29:56
  but, like, land and grass. And I think for us
• 29:59
  having kids, like, that's obviously, like, that's
• 30:02
  a great thing, because then it's like, they'll
• 30:04
  have so much... like space to play, we can host
• 30:07
  and we can do this, but it is like maintaining
• 30:10
  the grass. Like I think we like killed our grass
• 30:12
  already. Oh my God. Wow. Cause it's so hot. Oh
• 30:17
  yeah. So have you guys have been in a drought?
• 30:20
  Like have you not had much rain? No. And it said
• 30:23
  it's supposed to, I think we'll get like a little
• 30:25
  bit here and there. And for the life of us, it
• 30:29
  wasn't until literally today that we learned
• 30:31
  how to turn on the sprinkler system, but it was
• 30:34
  just like, I was looking at it and I was like,
• 30:36
  this was once upon a time green and we just moved
• 30:39
  in in March. It's like, just dead and brown.
• 30:43
  Yeah. We have no problem with rain up here. It
• 30:45
  seems like every weekend for the past few weekends,
• 30:47
  there's been rain. And it's frustrating because
• 30:50
  like literally during the week when Tony and
• 30:52
  I and most others have to go to work, it's like,
• 30:55
  oh, it's a nice day. It's a day where you can
• 30:57
  tickle walk. So like last Saturday was like the
• 31:01
  first weekend day in quite a while where it's
• 31:03
  like, yeah. We could go to the trail, we could
• 31:05
  get some ice cream, and then Sunday was like,
• 31:07
  all right, I guess we have to stay in because
• 31:09
  it's freaking raining again. No, it hasn't rained
• 31:12
  here. I mean, it says it's going to, but we just
• 31:15
  keep on missing it. And it's just like, okay,
• 31:18
  well, here we are. We had a record last summer
• 31:20
  in Vermont. I think we had a record of like 13
• 31:23
  rainy weekends in a row. Yeah, she see that I
• 31:27
  would yeah, I would get in that I would be like,
• 31:29
  uh Yeah, and then we had that big flooding in
• 31:32
  the summer of 2023 that made national news. So
• 31:34
  yeah, we It's weird because I do remember a few
• 31:38
  years ago like I think maybe prior to 2023 where
• 31:41
  we had a drought and now The drought has turned
• 31:44
  into the extreme opposite where it's like, oh
• 31:46
  my god, stop it with the rain This is why I gotta
• 31:54
  mow the lawn every week because, you know, I
• 31:56
  mow it, and then like two days later, it's like,
• 31:57
  all right, I guess I gotta go do it again. We're
• 31:59
  back. Yeah, no. How did you meet, by the way?
• 32:02
  How long have you guys been together, and how
• 32:04
  did you first meet? I don't know your story.
• 32:06
  We have been together, it feels like literally
• 32:09
  forever, but it's only been three, what's today's
• 32:13
  date? Oh, you know what? Today would mark three
• 32:17
  years since we first talked on Hinge. Oh my god.
• 32:23
  Me and Tony met on Hinge too. Get out. Yes. I
• 32:29
  would say today would mark that first like, yeah,
• 32:33
  that first hey, June 17th. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, no.
• 32:37
  Tony and I, June, so yeah, we both have June
• 32:41
  anniversaries. So, but ours is a little different.
• 32:44
  So June 7th of this year, uh, marked six years
• 32:52
  since our first date. Time has, time has flown
• 32:55
  by and then, you know, obviously coming up, we
• 32:56
  have July 16th since we went. Steady, as I like
• 32:59
  to say, like since we first became boyfriend
• 33:01
  and girlfriend. And then, uh, yeah, later on
• 33:03
  in September 16th of this year will be three
• 33:05
  years since we first got married. So yeah, lots
• 33:07
  of anniversaries that is to be acknowledged.
• 33:10
  But anyway, so what is it about hinge? Cause
• 33:12
  I'm finding more and more that people are finding
• 33:14
  magic on hinge compared to like Tinder and Bumble
• 33:17
  and, and okay, Cupid. Like, did you try all the
• 33:20
  other dating apps and it just didn't work or
• 33:22
  was it just. Just a luck of the draw of Hinge
• 33:25
  just happened to work for you. I think it was
• 33:27
  mainly like, I would say the luck of the draw
• 33:30
  because like you said, I think there was so many
• 33:33
  apps out there and then I just heard bad things
• 33:36
  about Tinder. So I was just like, no, especially
• 33:41
  cause like I. my parents, you know, they're like
• 33:44
  a bit strict. So I was like, I just don't even
• 33:46
  think that would fly in their household. Like
• 33:48
  I heard it was like a hookup culture type thing.
• 33:50
  And I was like, yeah, that's, that's not going
• 33:53
  to work type of energy. I mean, look, I guess
• 33:57
  I, yes, I've heard Tinder can be a hookup app.
• 34:00
  I'm sure people have found love on there. Uh,
• 34:02
  I will say that I had a date experience that
• 34:06
  did not turn out well. This was during the pandemic,
• 34:08
  by the way, when everybody was doing virtual
• 34:10
  dating. Um, and it was funny because like I matched
• 34:13
  with this girl who I. already met in person.
• 34:17
  I think she was with her mom or some kind of
• 34:19
  older relative at the time at this place called
• 34:21
  Dog Mountain up here in Vermont. It's this big,
• 34:23
  beautiful area of land where dogs can roam free
• 34:26
  with other dogs and their humans and whatnot.
• 34:29
  And I think me and, you know, my, my former dog
• 34:32
  buddy, we were there and I just came across this
• 34:34
  girl and her dog and we just kind of talked for
• 34:37
  two seconds and I made nothing of it and time
• 34:39
  passed by and I saw her on Tinder when I was
• 34:42
  single and I was like, oh, wow. Look, and we
• 34:44
  connected based on the fact. and we remembered
• 34:46
  each other from Dog Mountain. Nonetheless, like
• 34:48
  I'm having this memory, this positive memory
• 34:50
  of when we met at Dog Mountain carry me into
• 34:53
  our first date and our only date. And the reason
• 34:56
  why it was our only date is because one of us
• 34:59
  actually cared about the date and the other one
• 35:01
  forgot and didn't even care to dress up. at all.
• 35:07
  Yeah. Yeah. Like I remember, you know, cause
• 35:09
  I was, I was, I was at, I was at home with mommy
• 35:11
  and Natalie and CJ. This was a weekend where
• 35:13
  I was just staying with them traveling from Vermont
• 35:15
  to Connecticut. I dressed up in a decent red
• 35:17
  top, nothing too special, but you know, make
• 35:19
  sure my parents owned a brush or whatever on
• 35:22
  the way to the computer. I'm kind of sending
• 35:24
  her a text like, Oh yeah, just confirming that
• 35:26
  we're still good. And then I think there was
• 35:28
  like a delay and then she was just like, Oh shit,
• 35:30
  I forgot. Hold on. So She forgot going into it.
• 35:34
  Maybe there was a late start. I'm sitting up
• 35:36
  right on the bed with my fancy red top and I
• 35:39
  see her and she literally looks like she just
• 35:42
  got done painting walls like two seconds ago.
• 35:46
  Her hair was ruffled. She had like really stained
• 35:49
  clothes. She was just like, it just was odd.
• 35:54
  Needless to say, I mean, I don't know, maybe
• 35:56
  like 30 minutes or an hour into a not so great
• 36:00
  conversation. Uh, we, I think we just kind of
• 36:03
  abruptly left and you know how you don't really
• 36:06
  have to say to each other, like, it was just,
• 36:11
  yeah, I had so much expectation in my head that
• 36:13
  like, oh yeah, this nice girl that I met at dog
• 36:15
  mountain, but no, she was just on a completely
• 36:18
  different state of mind. I don't know why she
• 36:21
  even showed up in the first place. She could
• 36:22
  have just canceled if she didn't give a shit.
• 36:25
  That's the only date I think I've gotten from
• 36:27
  Tinder. But that's like a coincidental negative
• 36:29
  experience. It doesn't mean that like, Oh, Tinder
• 36:31
  is terrible. It was just, isn't it funny that
• 36:33
  Tinder has the thing of reputation and the only
• 36:35
  date that I have from Tinder was, was that like
• 36:38
  horrible. Yeah. No. Have you had something like
• 36:40
  that where like you went on a date with a guy
• 36:43
  and you could clearly tell he would, he forgot
• 36:45
  about it and did not give a crap. It's not even
• 36:48
  forgot. I know I would say it's not even forgot
• 36:51
  about it, but it's just like the lack of effort
• 36:53
  of like, you know, because I think in this like
• 36:56
  day and age, people are like, why spend so much
• 36:59
  energy or effort on the first day if you don't
• 37:01
  know how it's going to go type of thing. So I've
• 37:05
  had those dates on, especially Henge, which is
• 37:07
  like, the conversations would be great over the
• 37:10
  phone. But then when it came down to like, oh,
• 37:12
  like, where are we going to meet or what are
• 37:14
  we going to do? It's like, OK, I guess we can
• 37:16
  just like walk and then it's just like, okay,
• 37:18
  where are you walking? Like, and it almost takes
• 37:22
  you back. Like, I remember one day it was like,
• 37:25
  yeah, we can just like walk around the park,
• 37:27
  which was fine. But then it's like, if you know
• 37:29
  anything about me, it's like, I'm not really
• 37:31
  an outside person. I'm just like, no, I'm just
• 37:35
  like, it was again in that springtime. So where
• 37:37
  it's just like, I don't even want to like. Yeah,
• 37:42
  and it's like you obviously didn't put anything
• 37:44
  together I just reminded you or because I always
• 37:47
  do the check -in like hey is everything still
• 37:48
  good or Whatever because I like if I don't talk
• 37:51
  to you before then I don't think like I would
• 37:54
  show up or I would just assume it's not happening
• 37:56
  Yeah, so then and I think in that instance it
• 37:59
  was like oh my gosh There was nothing planned
• 38:02
  and so we're just gonna walk around this like
• 38:05
  park and then Uh, yeah, the awkward walk around
• 38:12
  the park. This was must've been like summer of
• 38:14
  2015 when I was still living in Connecticut.
• 38:16
  And I mean, it wasn't officially called a first
• 38:19
  date. It was more like, Oh, I'm reuniting with
• 38:22
  this girl that I used to do theater with in high
• 38:24
  school. And then I found out over the course
• 38:25
  of us just kind of reconnecting and talking and
• 38:27
  hanging out at Elizabeth Park in Hartford. Uh,
• 38:30
  Oh, actually I like her and I'm going to tell
• 38:32
  her that or let her know that like at the end
• 38:34
  of the first date and it was magic. It, you know,
• 38:37
  it was one of those dates where I was like, you
• 38:39
  know, we talked for three or four hours on a
• 38:41
  park bench and it went by like 30 minutes or
• 38:43
  an hour. And then there was a long period of
• 38:47
  time where she ghosted me for whatever reason.
• 38:50
  Um, and at the time I was not mentally well when
• 38:53
  it came to not getting a response. Uh, I would
• 38:56
  do the thing. No, I would literally do the thing
• 38:57
  where I would Facebook message. I literally got
• 39:01
  to the point where I said, I sent a letter to
• 39:03
  her house, Sarah. I was terrible. I was terrible.
• 39:09
  There was this other girl that I was obsessed
• 39:10
  with and not only was I sending letters and emails,
• 39:14
  I made it seem like I was just, I just casually
• 39:18
  showed up at the place that she worked at. You
• 39:20
  remember Joanne's? Joanne's Fabrics in Manchester?
• 39:23
  Yeah. Oh, I just need to go to Joanne's. I just
• 39:26
  need fabric. And she gave me that look. That
• 39:30
  definitely suggested that she was frightened
• 39:31
  by me and like she was like talking to some guy
• 39:34
  like I wasn't there hurt anybody but like I just
• 39:37
  I Used to exhibit very creepy stalker behavior
• 39:41
  when I was in my single early 20s days So I'm
• 39:44
  not proud of it But as for the you know, the
• 39:47
  the girl from high school first date went well,
• 39:49
  she ghosted me for some reason I think she was
• 39:51
  going through some stuff and after persistent
• 39:53
  stalking I got her attention and we were able
• 39:55
  to go on a second day. The second day was terrible
• 39:58
  I don't know what it was. We just didn't connect
• 40:00
  through bowling and whatever. You know how I
• 40:04
  know I didn't connect so well? Cause we were
• 40:05
  at AC Peterson's. No, no, no, no. It has nothing
• 40:09
  to do with AC Peterson's. I like AC Peterson's.
• 40:11
  I've been there for dates. It's fine. Nothing
• 40:13
  to do with that. She called her mom in the middle
• 40:16
  of the date and just had a phone conversation
• 40:19
  with her mom. And I'm just sitting there awkwardly
• 40:22
  like, okay. That's what I knew. Oh, this is not
• 40:27
  going well. Like, cause she was like pretty tight
• 40:29
  with her mom. And, um, I don't know if she just
• 40:33
  decided off hit to just call her mom and just
• 40:35
  have a conversation for God knows how long. And
• 40:38
  I'm just like, okay, I can clearly tell you're
• 40:40
  not interested in me anymore. But you know, that
• 40:44
  can't be an indicator. Cause it's funny. I always
• 40:47
  tell quest this on our first date. Um, He also
• 40:52
  he got a call from his mom and I tell him to
• 40:54
  this day I'm like at that moment and I think
• 40:56
  it was just pure timing It's like we walk into
• 40:59
  the restaurant We sit down and it's like, you
• 41:01
  know how they say like, oh call me if things
• 41:03
  aren't going great Or if you don't like the way
• 41:05
  she looks he gets this call immediately and he
• 41:08
  like he was nice about he was like I have to
• 41:10
  excuse myself and like I'm sitting there for
• 41:13
  like five minutes like anxiously like oh my gosh
• 41:16
  this man just like up and left oh no like like
• 41:20
  he like he was gonna do a dining dash or something
• 41:22
  like that no yeah and we didn't even order food
• 41:24
  so I was like oh he like he just dashed didn't
• 41:28
  like what he saw. But no, he came back and he
• 41:30
  was like, I'm sorry, it's my mom. She never calls
• 41:32
  me. And I just thought there was like an emergency
• 41:34
  type of thing. And then I was like, okay. And
• 41:38
  part of me was still like, you were trying to
• 41:39
  leave, weren't you? And he was like, obviously
• 41:41
  not. And he like apologized, but I was like,
• 41:44
  that, that wouldn't grind my gears. I don't know.
• 41:46
  It makes you just so nervous. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
• 41:49
  Like, like, so, so the way he approached it was
• 41:51
  like, Oh, excuse me, I got to go and take this
• 41:53
  call. And he left it at that. He didn't really
• 41:55
  explain further. No. Okay. Okay. So, so So if
• 41:57
  he had explained that it was his mom and she
• 41:59
  never calls usually, and he just wanted to check
• 42:01
  in with you. Yeah, like I would have been like,
• 42:02
  oh no, fine, go take it. He was like, he just
• 42:05
  rang and he left and I was like, okay. So I wonder,
• 42:09
  what was the magic? What led to you guys being
• 42:14
  together all these years later? What did you
• 42:16
  see in him that proved that he was your guy?
• 42:18
  To be honest, I think it was like instant. And
• 42:21
  I know that sounds like super corny to say, but
• 42:23
  I think literally the first date, Of course,
• 42:27
  you're going to be nervous. That was the first
• 42:31
  time I've ever started working and then after
• 42:35
  work went on a date because I was like, oh my
• 42:37
  gosh, I don't feel ready. I just worked a long
• 42:40
  day. I don't want it to be gross. It's the summertime.
• 42:43
  I'm like, OK, I'm probably sweating all day.
• 42:45
  So many things were going. I remember at work
• 42:48
  stressing myself trying to get ready and all
• 42:50
  this and just. The conversations we had prior
• 42:53
  and the conversations we had at that, like, early
• 42:57
  dinner, it was just like, I don't know. It's
• 43:00
  like, you don't want to stop talking to the point
• 43:02
  where he was like, I just, like, really want
• 43:04
  to see you the next day type of thing. And he
• 43:08
  was just on it. And the next day, what really,
• 43:10
  like, hit me and my mom and Andy were just like,
• 43:14
  this man's a bit weird. The fact that he wants
• 43:19
  to see you the very next day, he doesn't want
• 43:20
  to give it time. No, it's what he gave me the
• 43:22
  next day. The next day. No, it was like, it was
• 43:27
  a gift bag and it was everything from a bottle
• 43:31
  of wine, like Cuban links, my favorite color,
• 43:35
  Birkenstocks, and a letter with like a gift card
• 43:38
  attached to it, basically saying like, you're
• 43:41
  like the person that I've always like prayed
• 43:44
  for one in my life. Like, I hope I could be the
• 43:47
  person. Did that scare you? That would have scared
• 43:50
  me. No, and my mom was like, this is a lot. Like,
• 43:54
  it was a lot because I come home and I'm still
• 43:57
  like living on this high of like, it was a great
• 43:59
  second. It was in the center. I was like, oh
• 44:02
  my gosh, this was like great. I had so much fun.
• 44:05
  And I would come back with a bag of stuff. And
• 44:07
  Andy and my mom are both like, this is weird.
• 44:11
  This is a lot. I didn't open any of the gifts.
• 44:14
  I didn't use them because I was like, I don't
• 44:16
  know if he's going to go crazy and ask for all
• 44:17
  this stuff back. I'm just going to keep it in
• 44:20
  this bag here and then we're going to see how
• 44:22
  it goes. And then your wedding came up and that's
• 44:26
  when... How long have you guys been together
• 44:27
  by the time me and Tony got married? Like three
• 44:31
  months. By our wedding day, you guys were only
• 44:34
  together for three months. By that point, were
• 44:36
  you comfortable enough to ask him to come to
• 44:40
  the wedding with you or no? Yeah, it took about
• 44:43
  a month. in the half because I was like we were
• 44:46
  staying in Vermont and that's where it was like
• 44:48
  do I ask him to like leave or do I like tell
• 44:52
  him he can stay with my family like yeah how
• 44:56
  is that gonna maneuver and I remember again my
• 44:59
  parents are like a little bit iffy we did this
• 45:01
  like awkward brunch so he can meet my like dad
• 45:04
  and at the time Clody was there and I just remember
• 45:07
  like My father just being like, I don't know
• 45:09
  who this man is. We're not talking to him, like
• 45:12
  type of thing. And it was awkward, but thank
• 45:13
  God that's when Gregory and Marie were also dating.
• 45:17
  And he also was like, you know, I'm just gonna
• 45:19
  bring her. So I was like, you know what? I'm
• 45:21
  just gonna bring him. And if he says yes, it'll
• 45:24
  be great. If he says no, like I'd understand.
• 45:27
  I wouldn't take offense to it. Like I'm literally
• 45:29
  asking him to stay with like... Like, it's a
• 45:32
  whole, like, family trip at this point. And it's
• 45:35
  one of those, like, special moments where it's
• 45:38
  like, when you look back at these pictures, and
• 45:40
  that's when I, like, knew and I really had that,
• 45:43
  like, inner thought, like, is this somebody I
• 45:45
  can really see my life with? Because if I'm bringing
• 45:48
  him to your weddings, like, we all have been
• 45:52
  attached since birth. These pictures are gonna
• 45:54
  go down in, like, history. When I look back,
• 45:57
  do I wanna be with somebody that, like... I'm
• 45:59
  like, oh man, like I'm not with them anymore.
• 46:03
  Or they've experienced like the first wedding
• 46:05
  of the family and they had that like connection
• 46:08
  type of thing. And I just felt comfortable. And
• 46:11
  I remember like after that trip, we both were
• 46:14
  like, yeah, no, this is what we want to do. something
• 46:18
  about it, like, I don't know if it's the wedding
• 46:20
  vibes. I don't know if it was just being around
• 46:23
  family. Something about it was very, like, reassuring.
• 46:27
  It was a beautiful venue. So we got to even,
• 46:30
  like, sneak out by the lake and, like, look at
• 46:33
  all those things. And it's like, those things
• 46:35
  get you thinking. I think your wedding, after,
• 46:38
  like, getting back, we both were like, OK, we're
• 46:40
  probably going to get married. We're in this
• 46:42
  for a long time. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a phrase
• 46:45
  associated with that, like, There's just something
• 46:47
  about going to a wedding where people get like
• 46:49
  very like, they get positive, you know, they
• 46:52
  get positive about wanting to take their relationship
• 46:55
  to the next level. Of course you will have many
• 46:56
  people that want to hook up when they go to a
• 46:58
  wedding. Like we know that. I mean, yeah, just
• 47:00
  a wedding just brings that in the air. So I'm
• 47:03
  glad, I'm glad that you guys, you found that
• 47:06
  and now here you are, you are planning your wedding
• 47:10
  and also you're expecting a baby when? September
• 47:13
  17th. is the due date. And it's so funny because
• 47:18
  we also want to get married in September of 2027.
• 47:22
  And then you have your wedding anniversary and
• 47:25
  then we have my mom's birthday. I know. September
• 47:29
  is going to be just a booked month now. And that
• 47:32
  was me for May with my brother's mother's day,
• 47:36
  my brother's birthday, father's birthday, all
• 47:38
  of this. But September, I think we're packing
• 47:40
  it on with the anniversaries, the when is your
• 47:44
  mommy's birthday again in september i keep forgetting
• 47:46
  september 15th Oh, wow. That's one day. Yeah.
• 47:49
  One day before me and Tony. Yep. So it's going
• 47:50
  to be 15th, 16th, 17th if everything feels close.
• 47:53
  Oh my God. That is, that is insane. Did you guys
• 47:57
  like have a big, oh, let's talk about kids kind
• 48:00
  of discussion because, uh, with, with Tony and
• 48:03
  I, uh, let's see. So we got together during the
• 48:05
  pandemic in 2020. Uh, let's see. First started
• 48:08
  dating June, officially got together in July
• 48:10
  and already by August, we, I remember she was
• 48:14
  pet sitting for her aunt and I stayed over. and
• 48:17
  we just happened to have a conversation about
• 48:21
  all the things we might want in a partner, like
• 48:25
  long term. And the discussion of kids came up
• 48:28
  and initially it was like, she was very adamant
• 48:31
  about not wanting to like get. pregnant. She
• 48:34
  just didn't like the feeling or the thought of
• 48:37
  that and wanted to adopt. And I was, I was open
• 48:40
  with either, you know, adopting kids or not having
• 48:42
  kids at all. Like I was, I was pretty open -minded.
• 48:44
  Um, and then along the way, we just gradually,
• 48:47
  we mutually, both of us wanted to, wanted to
• 48:49
  get pregnant the old fashioned way. It was a
• 48:52
  discussion that really just ended up evolving
• 48:54
  and evolving and, and, and kept on being there
• 48:58
  for, for the last six years. So how was it with
• 49:00
  you and Quest? Did you guys have a big discussion
• 49:02
  or was it, uh, I think it was really the same.
• 49:06
  I think it was basically like when we first started
• 49:09
  dating, I think we were very like open and honest,
• 49:11
  like, yeah, I would like to be married and I
• 49:13
  would like to have kids. And then the more you
• 49:16
  get together, it's like you talk about it or
• 49:18
  when you meet family, it's like, oh, how would
• 49:20
  you raise your kids? Or what, like, what does
• 49:22
  that look like? One of my things was like, Quest
• 49:25
  is the one of eight kids from his mom's side.
• 49:28
  Where you want a lot of kids? That was like one
• 49:31
  of my questions and it was like about four. So
• 49:34
  it's like having those conversations as they
• 49:36
  come up. And I think what really drove it is
• 49:39
  in August when we got engaged last year, it was
• 49:43
  like at this point in time, if it happens, if
• 49:46
  it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't, but we
• 49:48
  were both like, you know what, the only thing
• 49:51
  my biggest. thing was, I was like, I do want
• 49:54
  a house where it's just us because he owned that
• 49:56
  house. But I was like, it's not really like my
• 49:58
  house. I'm still with my parents. And it's not
• 50:01
  something that I can say is ours. And if we were
• 50:04
  to have a baby, I would want something that is
• 50:07
  just ours. So we don't have to worry about the
• 50:09
  moving and stuff like that. So then it's like
• 50:12
  once we got engaged and started that process,
• 50:14
  I think everything it just it made sense. And
• 50:17
  then one day you're just like, oh. I'm actually
• 50:20
  having a baby. I know. You're just like, oh,
• 50:24
  I'm having a baby. And sometimes you're in denial
• 50:27
  because I don't think I told many people until
• 50:31
  close to March. And when did you know that you
• 50:34
  were pregnant? In like January. OK, of this year.
• 50:39
  Yes. And I waited until I was out of the first
• 50:43
  trimester. And that's when I told our parents
• 50:46
  that like, Oh, surprise, like we're having, we're
• 50:51
  having a baby. And then it's just been going
• 50:53
  since. So it's like, not something that, I don't
• 50:57
  know. I wouldn't say like. Something we've in
• 51:00
  depth like talked about like, oh, this is the
• 51:02
  day we're gonna try or we're gonna wait for marriage
• 51:05
  We didn't have like those conversations, but
• 51:07
  it was more so like, you know what? We're at
• 51:09
  a place where if it happens and we're like ready
• 51:12
  for it type of thing Yeah, yeah with Tony and
• 51:15
  I I don't even think it was like oh we have to
• 51:16
  be married like we didn't care about Yeah, it
• 51:18
  was like you guys it was like we need our own
• 51:21
  house because as I probably have told you there
• 51:24
  was a point where I moved in would to Tony's
• 51:28
  house that she owned with a friend and the three
• 51:32
  of us. It was, it was, it was not the easiest
• 51:36
  living situation, but we, we made it work and,
• 51:39
  and thankfully things are. better between me,
• 51:43
  Tony, and the friend because we're all not three
• 51:47
  of us living together anymore. We knew that a
• 51:50
  baby would not happen in that living situation.
• 51:53
  We especially knew when we moved in with a couple
• 51:55
  of friends, our friends, Joella and John, and
• 51:58
  who you probably met at our wedding, Joella was
• 52:01
  Tony's maid of honor. We stayed at their place
• 52:03
  for a year while we were looking for a house
• 52:05
  of our own. And it was literally like kind of,
• 52:07
  you know how it like, it was like attic vibes.
• 52:10
  It was like, Oh, here's this like space that
• 52:13
  you could use for everything, for cooking, for,
• 52:17
  you know, you can wash dishes in the bathtub.
• 52:18
  You could sleep here. You get the TVs there and
• 52:21
  you could somehow stuff all your animals in this
• 52:24
  space. Yeah. It had, it had a, it had a very
• 52:26
  much added quality of a living space. Um, and
• 52:29
  we made it work for a year, but we definitely
• 52:31
  knew like, yeah, no. We definitely do not want
• 52:33
  to have a baby in this small space. So things
• 52:36
  have timed out well. I mean, we've been in this
• 52:38
  house for almost three years and we're definitely
• 52:40
  ready to have a baby now. So you guys want, so
• 52:44
  have we, have we confirmed the number or is it,
• 52:46
  are we going to settle on four kids or you guys
• 52:48
  are like, wait, wait and see what happens. Cause
• 52:51
  you know, the economy. It's funny cause we talked
• 52:54
  about it and at first it's like, oh my gosh,
• 52:57
  twins, this would sound great, whatever. And
• 52:59
  then you go through the process and you're. just
• 53:01
  like, you know what, let me see how I make it
• 53:04
  after this one and that will determine what my
• 53:07
  body chooses to do. Because it's a lot. It's
• 53:10
  like from doctor's appointments, there's some
• 53:13
  things that like, I know I had like certain like
• 53:15
  random issues with because of dehydration and
• 53:18
  this heat that like it just, and of course they
• 53:21
  say it's like, oh, first time like mom worries.
• 53:23
  So you're just like on edge about everything.
• 53:26
  But I'm like, this is a lot and this is like
• 53:29
  nine months where it's like. I'm still going
• 53:31
  to work. I still have to do whatever I have to
• 53:33
  do. And I'm tired. It's like when people do it
• 53:35
  back to back and it's just like all this, it's
• 53:38
  like maybe after I'm just like, oh my gosh, this
• 53:40
  was so great. I want to do it again. quickly
• 53:43
  or I might be done and be like, you know what,
• 53:46
  give me, give me a good five, six years and then
• 53:49
  we'll try again. Yeah. I mean, it gives, it gives
• 53:52
  you a better appreciation for what your mommy
• 53:54
  had to go through with, with you and Andy and
• 53:56
  Gregory. Like, yeah. It's like, Oh my God, how
• 53:59
  do you balance all this work and having kids
• 54:01
  and it's just, it's, it's, it's exciting. I will
• 54:06
  say that I'm looking forward to it. And I think
• 54:09
  just having All of our mothers, Quest Mom, Tatsy,
• 54:14
  my mommy, everybody's literally been all hands
• 54:17
  on deck. So I know, like, it's just gonna be
• 54:20
  way easier than they had it. I can tell you that.
• 54:23
  by the way, they're already just like excited.
• 54:25
  And they're just like, oh, we're going to do
• 54:27
  this or we're going to come here. And it's just
• 54:29
  like, OK, I don't even think I'll see my baby
• 54:31
  once it's born at this point in time. Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:35
  Get ready for that. Because once it's born, everybody's
• 54:38
  going to be like, oh my god, let me hold the
• 54:39
  baby, let me hold the baby. And then you're going
• 54:40
  to be like the last person they pay attention
• 54:41
  to. It's like, OK, thank you. Uh, for the audience,
• 54:46
  let's just establish who the Haitian relatives
• 54:48
  we've mentioned are. The Haitian nicknamed relatives.
• 54:53
  Um, Tatsi is the Haitian nickname that you have
• 54:55
  given, uh, your aunt, my mom. Um, and Cloddy
• 54:59
  who, uh, lived with your parents. Uh, what, I
• 55:02
  know it's a relative, but how is Cloddy related
• 55:05
  to? That is our uncle. So that is our mom's brother.
• 55:12
  Let's talk about the delicious not meal, but
• 55:16
  meals Plural that you came up with as part of
• 55:20
  our three delicious questions here. This was
• 55:21
  great. Talk about it It quests his mom potato
• 55:24
  salad and beef ribs. Tell me what's so special
• 55:27
  about that It's been a craving and this sounds
• 55:30
  so crazy. But ever since I was like early on
• 55:34
  in my pregnancy I had her potato salad her daughter
• 55:39
  made it and That's all I would eat for weeks.
• 55:42
  I'd try to recreate it. I'd try to make it. That's
• 55:45
  the only thing I wanted was her specific potato
• 55:48
  salad. And she's like, well, I'm not going to
• 55:50
  make it. It's a cookout food. And I was like,
• 55:52
  well, that kind of sucks. So we had this dinner
• 55:56
  cookout so that our families can get connected.
• 56:00
  And she made it. And when I tell you, I've just
• 56:03
  been eating it nonstop and then paired with my
• 56:06
  mommy's. We call it McCowny, but her macaroni
• 56:09
  and cheese. That was just phenomenal. And then
• 56:13
  I've never had beef ribs. I've always had pork
• 56:17
  ribs, but something about beef ribs being on
• 56:20
  a grill, smothered in barbecue sauce. Yeah. I
• 56:23
  was just like, oh my gosh, I want this again.
• 56:27
  And it's like those things where it's like you
• 56:29
  don't get them every day because it's cookout
• 56:31
  foods, but it's like things that your parents
• 56:33
  make that it's just like you couldn't recreate
• 56:35
  it even if you tried. That's why I'm so obsessed.
• 56:38
  And I had to like name them because I know if
• 56:40
  somebody were to give me like any regular beef
• 56:42
  ribs or mac and cheese, I would have been like,
• 56:44
  it's not the same. How's the wedding planning
• 56:46
  going? Because I know, you know, Tony and I was
• 56:48
  definitely a process in terms of cost and who
• 56:50
  was invited and who wouldn't show up and blah,
• 56:52
  blah, blah. It's a lot. So I take it maybe that's
• 56:56
  a work in progress with you. guys. It started.
• 57:00
  I'm going to tell you that it started. I just
• 57:03
  got so and I I told my mom I wanted to be like
• 57:07
  you and Tony so bad because you guys planned
• 57:09
  it in a year. It was so easy. I'm sure it was
• 57:13
  stressful for you guys. I like I know it for
• 57:16
  a fact. But the way you just did it so quickly,
• 57:19
  so effortlessly, I was like, that's what I want.
• 57:24
  That's not that's not how it's done. You guys
• 57:26
  made it look easy and I was like, okay We did
• 57:29
  we did it definitely was America because like
• 57:31
  literally I proposed to her September Labor Day
• 57:34
  weekend 2022 and a year and just a little bit
• 57:38
  of change later, September 16th, not too far
• 57:40
  after Labor Day 2023, we got married. So yeah,
• 57:44
  not a lot of people can say that they pulled
• 57:46
  it off within a year. And I would say if, if
• 57:49
  anything, if we made it look easy, it's because
• 57:52
  we knew that we didn't have a lot of money and
• 57:56
  we knew that we could not invite a crap ton of
• 58:00
  people. We definitely knew that we were not going
• 58:02
  to have like a giant church size 300, 400 person
• 58:06
  kind of wedding. We knew that, uh, we were going
• 58:08
  to get a small venue. We knew that tops a hundred
• 58:13
  people less, even better. And I think like 80
• 58:15
  people showed up. So it was even better. The
• 58:18
  important thing was, was that it was going to
• 58:20
  be a day where we would get to make it happen.
• 58:23
  And we would get to be together with the closest
• 58:26
  people in our lives. Both of us were, were not.
• 58:29
  How should I say, we're not lavish people in
• 58:33
  terms of our taste. We were just like, all right,
• 58:36
  yes, we want the wedding to look good. We want
• 58:37
  to dress up and everything, but also we don't
• 58:40
  want to be in debt for the rest of our lives
• 58:41
  because that's one day. So that was just our
• 58:44
  secret. We were just like, no, we're going to
• 58:46
  have a beautiful and very cost effective and
• 58:50
  people effective day. So that's it. I cannot
• 58:53
  imagine what you might be going through because,
• 58:55
  you know, obviously, us both being of the Haitian
• 58:58
  background, Haitian people, they're of that breed
• 59:02
  where you have relatives here, you have church
• 59:05
  people here that you grew up with. It seems like
• 59:07
  everybody, and then some, hears about your wedding
• 59:11
  and wants to come. And I just got to remind you
• 59:14
  guys, like, it's your day. You invite who you
• 59:16
  want to invite. And I'll leave it at that. And
• 59:19
  that's where we, that's what I'm saying. You're,
• 59:23
  even with all that, it's, your wedding came out
• 59:25
  so, like, nice, so beautiful. And Questil this
• 59:28
  day was like, that's what we're aiming for. Like,
• 59:31
  the size was perfect. Just the way everything
• 59:34
  ran. I think you hit it spot on. There's this,
• 59:37
  like, culture thing. And I was like, you did
• 59:40
  it right, because you, like, you were able to
• 59:44
  do it in Vermont. I think being my parents' only
• 59:48
  daughter. There was some pressure from outside
• 59:51
  forces to make it bigger than it needed to be.
• 59:53
  I'll just leave it at that. But, you know, we
• 59:56
  kept it nice, small, tight, as concise as we
• 59:58
  can. Now, what about Quest's family? Is Quest
• 1:00:01
  going through the same situation where it's like,
• 1:00:04
  oh my God, like a thousand and billion people
• 1:00:06
  in his life want to show up? So Quest is funny,
• 1:00:09
  and I'm going to tell you why. In his head, he's
• 1:00:11
  like, these are the people we're gonna have,
• 1:00:13
  whatever. In his mind, it's like, he'll either
• 1:00:16
  forget or not think, like, people would want
• 1:00:19
  to show up for him. in that capacity, only because
• 1:00:23
  it's like, he's a guy and he was like, okay,
• 1:00:25
  that's more so for my sisters, this big thing.
• 1:00:27
  He's always like, you know, it's about you, like
• 1:00:29
  you have the invite list. So at first I thought,
• 1:00:33
  oh, it's gonna be like, oh, just like the normal
• 1:00:36
  cousins of people I'm around, whatever. But even
• 1:00:39
  with this like reveal coming up, there's family
• 1:00:42
  out of the woodworks that I don't even like know
• 1:00:45
  about. Jenna reveal coming up. Yeah, and it's
• 1:00:50
  just giving me an insight on the wedding because
• 1:00:52
  it's like I'm so excited to meet all these people
• 1:00:55
  but then it's that same thing where it's just
• 1:00:57
  like we're getting calls from like people he
• 1:00:59
  hasn't talked to since he was younger and he
• 1:01:01
  was like Oh, did you send the invite to this
• 1:01:03
  person? Did you send the invite to that person
• 1:01:06
  and it's just like I'll say this I'll say that
• 1:01:10
  there are regrets I've had about people I could
• 1:01:13
  have allowed to come to the wedding, but me and
• 1:01:17
  Tony, we kept the focus on, no, like people that
• 1:01:20
  actually are in our lives that we have a regular
• 1:01:24
  relationship with, or just a meaningful relationship
• 1:01:26
  with, we just weren't a fan of inviting people
• 1:01:33
  just because like, oh yeah, we're related by
• 1:01:35
  blood and you got to have people like, no, it
• 1:01:36
  was like, you got to... have a special place
• 1:01:39
  in our lives to be invited on this. That was
• 1:01:42
  our perspective. So I hope that is the perspective
• 1:01:44
  that you guys go with. Don't just invite people
• 1:01:46
  to invite people, like actually have a purpose
• 1:01:49
  to invite them. Because it's like, even looking
• 1:01:51
  at wedding planning, like at first, I think the
• 1:01:53
  idea was like, okay, we were, and I've heard
• 1:01:57
  this, I'm not going to say from who. So the wedding
• 1:02:01
  isn't about you guys, it's about the family.
• 1:02:04
  No. It's not. It's about you guys. It's about
• 1:02:08
  you guys. So there's some, some things about
• 1:02:12
  that. And at first it's like, you know, I'm always
• 1:02:14
  like, you know, fine, like let's just do this.
• 1:02:16
  It's going to be like, at the end of the day,
• 1:02:17
  it's going to be great. But then when you're
• 1:02:19
  looking at cost and stuff like that, I'm like,
• 1:02:22
  at this point, I'm always like, this money could
• 1:02:24
  be going somewhere else respectfully. Like I'd
• 1:02:28
  rather go on a trip. I'd rather put it towards
• 1:02:30
  baby stuff. We're going to need like all of that.
• 1:02:33
  So we are like looking at the budget and that's
• 1:02:36
  really going to dictate. What the amount is I
• 1:02:39
  know that I have like my close circle of friends
• 1:02:43
  and my close circle of family that like Like
• 1:02:45
  you said that I talked to I know I see I have
• 1:02:48
  them in my phone. I'm texting they're at these
• 1:02:51
  events It's like basically people who were at
• 1:02:53
  my graduation where it's like it's not this big
• 1:02:55
  number But it's people that like I can see and
• 1:02:58
  I can put a face to I think that culture cycle
• 1:03:03
  of inviting everybody and their mother from the
• 1:03:05
  Haitian community is going to sadly end with
• 1:03:08
  our generation. But it's just, it's a lot because
• 1:03:12
  it's not like how it was back in the day where
• 1:03:15
  it's like they would do this at a church and
• 1:03:17
  basically it's like everybody at the church was
• 1:03:20
  just there. Like literally I think that's how
• 1:03:23
  it was because I know even talking about some
• 1:03:26
  wedding planning like My mom was even shocked
• 1:03:29
  where she's like, oh, you're not doing it in
• 1:03:30
  a church. And I'm like, no, we're just going
• 1:03:32
  to get a venue. And it's like, looking at these
• 1:03:34
  prices, it's like, OK, if I don't recognize their
• 1:03:38
  name or like where this is, I don't think that
• 1:03:41
  they should be in attendance because it's like,
• 1:03:44
  I'm footing the bill for this. That's the thing.
• 1:03:47
  It's like, we're paying for this to where it's
• 1:03:49
  like, OK, this is great. And I love that you
• 1:03:52
  guys celebrated with me. But then at the end
• 1:03:54
  of the day, What does it do? It's a big wedding
• 1:03:58
  thing So it's just, it's going to be interesting.
• 1:04:02
  And then we're also going to probably get married
• 1:04:05
  on paper prior. So it's like, I just want to
• 1:04:09
  go through the whole name change before the baby
• 1:04:11
  comes, especially. So I don't think it's going
• 1:04:14
  to be more so of that. Like, it'll still be a
• 1:04:17
  wedding, but I think it'll be more so a celebration
• 1:04:19
  and just having people there to honor us and
• 1:04:24
  more so. You know? It could be whatever you want
• 1:04:26
  to be. It is about... The wedding day is about
• 1:04:30
  the people getting married. The idea that it's
• 1:04:33
  more about the people attending the wedding than
• 1:04:35
  the people actually getting married, that's wild
• 1:04:37
  to me. You guys dictate the terms, you and Quest.
• 1:04:40
  Very much so. Yeah. And honestly, I don't know,
• 1:04:44
  because the... Maybe because of your preference
• 1:04:47
  and especially because of the kind of family
• 1:04:49
  that we have I don't I don't know if you guys
• 1:04:51
  are gonna just end up going to a courthouse.
• 1:04:53
  I'm just leaving you at that More and I know
• 1:05:00
  that's what I said It sounds like it sounds that
• 1:05:03
  sounds amazing more more the way I'm looking
• 1:05:05
  at these crosses every time I visit a venue I'm
• 1:05:07
  just like let's do it my mom I know she's low
• 1:05:10
  -key terrified that if we do it like that would
• 1:05:13
  be the end Because I just think it's, I understand
• 1:05:18
  the celebrating and the parties and all of this,
• 1:05:21
  but after graduation, and I know after having
• 1:05:25
  this baby and just the gender reveal and the
• 1:05:28
  upcoming parties, I am going to be tuckered out.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a lot. I'm just
• 1:05:34
  going to want to rest. Yeah. So that's why I'm
• 1:05:36
  like, you know what? I'll pass it on to the others.
• 1:05:41
  But I think that's why we also pushed it out
• 1:05:43
  to 2027. And during my maternity leave, I say
• 1:05:46
  whatever I plan during that time, that's what
• 1:05:49
  I'm gonna go with and just move forward at this
• 1:05:52
  point in time. It's not gonna look like the past,
• 1:05:54
  because I know that's what, oh, we have traditions,
• 1:05:56
  traditions, I think, this generation, we're all
• 1:05:59
  just gonna break it. So I'm just excited to see
• 1:06:02
  what that looks like. There's nothing wrong with
• 1:06:04
  that. Things are too expensive nowadays. Yeah.
• 1:06:10
  And, and you want to spend your money wisely.
• 1:06:14
  So best of luck and, and keep us posted on the
• 1:06:16
  wedding planning. Yeah. Any advice that me and
• 1:06:18
  Tony can give you guys we would, we would, we
• 1:06:20
  would be more than happy to, to give that. Shall
• 1:06:26
  we talk about the delicious pop culture that
• 1:06:28
  you chose? This was a great choice. Oh my God.
• 1:06:32
  The love trapped podcast. And for our audience,
• 1:06:36
  to familiarize it, a true crime docu -series
• 1:06:39
  in podcast form about a former bachelor, the
• 1:06:42
  star male contestant of one of the seasons of
• 1:06:45
  the reality show, The Bachelor. I can't remember.
• 1:06:47
  Do you remember which season Clayton Eckert was
• 1:06:50
  on? No, I just know he was after Michelle's.
• 1:06:52
  And after that, I was like, I don't know. I feel
• 1:06:56
  like The Bachelor low -key went downhill, so
• 1:06:58
  I stopped keeping track. Well, I'm sure, yeah,
• 1:06:59
  I'm sure it did. I'm sure it did. I know the
• 1:07:01
  host of that, Chris, whatever his name. is he,
• 1:07:05
  I don't know, he did just had a bad reputation
• 1:07:10
  for either just promoting a bad workplace culture.
• 1:07:13
  Maybe there was some misconduct stuff going on.
• 1:07:15
  I don't know, but yeah. Bachelor nation, watch
• 1:07:19
  it. Clayton Eckert, who was a bachelor from what
• 1:07:23
  this docu -series tells us, he was a very unliked
• 1:07:27
  bachelor because he was the kind of guy that
• 1:07:29
  was very honest to a fault. So honest that like,
• 1:07:32
  you know, when they have the scene with Clayton
• 1:07:35
  and the women contestants and they're all in
• 1:07:37
  the room at the same time with the roses. And
• 1:07:39
  I guess Clayton is trying to make his ultimate
• 1:07:40
  choice. He's telling all these women in at the
• 1:07:42
  same time, as they're in the room together. I
• 1:07:45
  love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.
• 1:07:47
  He's telling all these women the same thing.
• 1:07:49
  And he's also admitting that he's had sex with
• 1:07:51
  a couple of them. Stuff like that is what made
• 1:07:54
  Clayton a very unlikable bachelor. That ruined
• 1:07:58
  his reputation. He left the public eye for a
• 1:08:00
  little bit and decided to try to reinvigorate
• 1:08:03
  and restart his life with a career in real estate.
• 1:08:08
  To my understanding, according to the docu -series,
• 1:08:10
  he goes online and his first prospective client
• 1:08:15
  is like this unidentified woman named Laura Owens
• 1:08:19
  on LinkedIn. It's like, she doesn't have a picture.
• 1:08:22
  She doesn't have a pop -up picture. Clayton follows
• 1:08:23
  up because he wants to get going and Laura, she's
• 1:08:27
  kind of mixing the personal with the professional.
• 1:08:29
  She's getting flirty. When we hear this background
• 1:08:33
  early on, he's, he's dumb. He decides to just
• 1:08:36
  kind of fall for it. and lean into the flirtatiousness
• 1:08:39
  of it all. It gets to a point where I think he's
• 1:08:43
  contacting Laura. on LinkedIn or whatever real
• 1:08:46
  estate website while he's on an edible. She's
• 1:08:48
  sending him a suggestive picture and, you know,
• 1:08:50
  he's inviting her to come over to his place and
• 1:08:53
  they have oral sex. And then after that, I think
• 1:08:59
  Laura runs to the bathroom really quickly and
• 1:09:02
  that was seen as weird and that's going to play
• 1:09:04
  a big part as we get later on into the series.
• 1:09:07
  Before you know it, Laura is just crazy contacting
• 1:09:12
  Clayton saying, Okay, I'm pregnant and it's your
• 1:09:16
  baby. I haven't had sex with anybody else in
• 1:09:19
  quite a long time. She gets pretty graphic. I
• 1:09:23
  think at one point when she's like, I'm very
• 1:09:25
  tight. That's how I know I haven't had sex in
• 1:09:27
  a while. Which is confusing because Clayton is
• 1:09:28
  just like, and the audience, I'm just like, oh,
• 1:09:31
  well, if you're saying how tight you are, blah,
• 1:09:33
  blah, blah, then that's proof that I haven't
• 1:09:35
  had sex with you. What are your thoughts? Have
• 1:09:37
  you finished the entire podcast series? I did.
• 1:09:40
  I did. I binge watched it. Um, and it's funny
• 1:09:44
  because at first I went into that whole thing
• 1:09:48
  of like, I not despise Clayton, but I just think
• 1:09:52
  something about him. He lacks accountability
• 1:09:54
  for anything. I think that was definitely seen
• 1:09:58
  throughout this podcast. So I went into this,
• 1:10:01
  like, already having this bias towards him. And
• 1:10:04
  working in the field that I do, you do hear,
• 1:10:07
  oddly enough, some of these stories where men
• 1:10:10
  claim, oh, it's not my child, but in reality,
• 1:10:14
  it is. And it's just interesting to see where
• 1:10:16
  it's like, this time it's so... It's just not,
• 1:10:21
  and it also literally feeds into the whole point
• 1:10:25
  of like, not, I wouldn't say how dumb Clayton
• 1:10:28
  is, but again, I just think he put himself in
• 1:10:31
  that situation to even believe or anything, because
• 1:10:34
  this happened over a span of four days, over
• 1:10:37
  years, like you gave yourself years of headache
• 1:10:39
  over four days, and he was like, oh, these thirst
• 1:10:42
  traps and stuff like that. It came out, like,
• 1:10:44
  one of the thirst traps were, like, her riding
• 1:10:47
  a horse or her in, like, riding leggings. It
• 1:10:49
  wasn't a thirst trap. It was just very much so,
• 1:10:51
  like, on board. It was classic, like, oh, my
• 1:10:54
  God, guys are so easily turned on by the littlest
• 1:10:58
  thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. And he made
• 1:11:00
  it seem like, oh, like... Yeah, whatever. And
• 1:11:04
  it's just the, I feel like more happened because
• 1:11:07
  I just don't think if you were firm believing
• 1:11:09
  on, it was just oral and it's no way that you
• 1:11:13
  would even entertain this as much as he did,
• 1:11:16
  which is just insane. And I think about it, even
• 1:11:20
  just going through the process myself, it's like
• 1:11:22
  when you go to the doctor and you're like, I
• 1:11:25
  have bunches of these ultrasound that they just
• 1:11:28
  give you. They give you... There's no way that
• 1:11:32
  I can be like, oh, I want to go online or have
• 1:11:35
  a telehealth. Like, no, they're like, we need
• 1:11:37
  to see you as soon as possible. for everything.
• 1:11:41
  So it's like, I don't know. I don't know if it's
• 1:11:43
  like the lack of knowledge, the ignorance. I
• 1:11:45
  just, I feel like part of him put himself in
• 1:11:47
  that situation and it is, it's interesting to
• 1:11:50
  see the mind of women like that because it's
• 1:11:53
  like, I think the question that the podcast asked
• 1:11:55
  and I still like, I really want to understand
• 1:11:59
  and like know like, where do we draw that line
• 1:12:01
  is a lot of people are like, you can't believe
• 1:12:03
  a woman. You can't trust a woman. Like women
• 1:12:05
  are crazy. And it... feeds into that, but you
• 1:12:10
  don't want to as a woman. You're just like, okay,
• 1:12:11
  I want to be a girl's girl. But then it's like,
• 1:12:14
  come on, girlie. Like, she's clearly. Yeah, this
• 1:12:17
  is. And this is not the first time that she's
• 1:12:21
  lied about a paternity test. Three times. Yeah,
• 1:12:23
  she, uh. Uh, there, there was that other guy.
• 1:12:27
  There was two other people, there was two other
• 1:12:29
  guys where she did that same thing of like, you
• 1:12:32
  know, hooking up with them and then, oh, I'm
• 1:12:35
  obsessed with this guy and I'm going to show
• 1:12:37
  my obsession by saying, Hey, you're the father
• 1:12:40
  of my baby. And then she gets all weird where
• 1:12:44
  she's like, I will get an abortion if you agree
• 1:12:47
  to date me. So it's like, okay, what does the
• 1:12:50
  baby, what does this fake baby mean to you? Like
• 1:12:52
  to just throw it all away for a day. And that's
• 1:12:56
  what's so wild, because in looking at her background,
• 1:13:00
  I don't foresee, like she's a pretty girl, like
• 1:13:03
  I don't foresee her having trouble in that area.
• 1:13:07
  I think it's really odd to see somebody, not
• 1:13:10
  once, not twice, because he's the third one.
• 1:13:13
  do this multiple times over, it's not a money
• 1:13:17
  thing. She's not looking for money. I think Clayton
• 1:13:20
  was the only one that had some type of status.
• 1:13:22
  But we know Clayton sort of fell off, and he's
• 1:13:25
  not even that wealthy, as one perceived. I think
• 1:13:27
  this brought him back into the public eye. So
• 1:13:30
  it's odd that she's done this for that love and
• 1:13:34
  care when, if she just was patient, because this
• 1:13:38
  happened quick. A lot of it was like... days
• 1:13:41
  or like a month or two where she was like, okay,
• 1:13:43
  I love you. We're locked in forever type of thing,
• 1:13:46
  which is like, so I don't get it. First of all,
• 1:13:51
  when you recommended this podcast, I wanted to
• 1:13:53
  not like it because it's because it has nothing
• 1:13:58
  to do with the like Clayton and the bachelor
• 1:13:59
  or whatever. Like I have a love hate relationship
• 1:14:01
  with the true crime genre. I will admit, there
• 1:14:07
  are certain true crime stuff, a lot of it Ryan
• 1:14:10
  Murphy created, the Jeffrey Dahmer series, the
• 1:14:14
  Menendez Brothers series on Netflix. There's
• 1:14:18
  certain true crime that I've dived in on where
• 1:14:20
  it's like, okay, it's clearly exploiting real
• 1:14:24
  life tragedy for entertainment, but... Uh, God,
• 1:14:28
  I just can't stop listening and watching. That's
• 1:14:31
  how I felt about this podcast. I was expecting
• 1:14:32
  not to like it. And then just along the way,
• 1:14:35
  as I was Uber and Lyft driving, I was like, Oh
• 1:14:37
  God. I like this. This is this is good. This
• 1:14:40
  is good storytelling. Because I was working in
• 1:14:43
  commercial radio back in twenty twenty three
• 1:14:45
  and I was caught up with pop culture news. I
• 1:14:47
  actually don't even remember because I feel like
• 1:14:48
  this was a big story back in twenty twenty three
• 1:14:50
  when Clayton had the paternity scandal. So it
• 1:14:53
  must have missed my radar. I only got up to episode
• 1:14:55
  eight. I haven't I haven't started episode eight
• 1:14:58
  yet. The third man. So I'm going to get to that
• 1:15:01
  when I do. But yeah, much like you. Like roughly
• 1:15:05
  the first half of this docu -series, I was just
• 1:15:07
  shaking my head at Clayton because I just found
• 1:15:09
  him to be a perfect example of a really shallow
• 1:15:13
  guy with not that big of a brain because, you
• 1:15:16
  know, he wants to go on The Bachelor to seek
• 1:15:19
  validation, you know, this dumb reality show.
• 1:15:22
  Then, you know, we eventually get into... How
• 1:15:25
  clearly insane Laura Owens is. I can't even keep
• 1:15:29
  track. I mean, maybe like 500 emails and text
• 1:15:31
  messages were sent. And the journalist who narrates
• 1:15:33
  the documentary was even like, oh my God, this
• 1:15:35
  is overwhelming and emotionally exhausting reading
• 1:15:38
  all this. Laura probably created like 12 different
• 1:15:41
  phone numbers because Clayton kept blocking her.
• 1:15:45
  And then you have that lawyer, Greg, who previously
• 1:15:48
  represented someone also named Greg, who was
• 1:15:50
  a victim of Laura. He had to drop out of that
• 1:15:53
  case. Laura in the past because it got to a point
• 1:15:55
  where Laura was falsely claiming that the lawyer.
• 1:16:00
  And I guess the Greg, the client raped her, which
• 1:16:05
  is about as serious and damning of an allegation
• 1:16:07
  as you can make. And then, oh my God, I mean,
• 1:16:10
  I would say the climax is like the depositions
• 1:16:14
  when you hear more on the stand. I mean, my God,
• 1:16:17
  the inconsistencies between all the depositions
• 1:16:20
  that we hear from her, just her willfully being
• 1:16:22
  like the ultrasound. Yes, I did doctor it. And
• 1:16:27
  yes, I did doctor it with the word. mile as in
• 1:16:30
  the company, but actually, no, I didn't doctor
• 1:16:33
  it and, oh, I turned it in anonymously or, oh,
• 1:16:36
  I did not. Like she just kept changing her story
• 1:16:39
  going from like, oh, I had a miscarriage and
• 1:16:42
  I saw an online doctor for that when you really
• 1:16:44
  should be in person for it. And then, you know,
• 1:16:47
  cut to however many months later, the other deposition
• 1:16:49
  is like, oh, I called a hotline and then also
• 1:16:52
  went online. Like it was just, I was listening
• 1:16:55
  in my car and I'm just like, wow, this woman.
• 1:16:58
  is very comfortable being a bullshitter. And
• 1:17:02
  she, like, the thing is, these are all, like,
• 1:17:05
  the deposition, that's a court thing. That's
• 1:17:07
  almost like a mini trial. So it's like she knew
• 1:17:09
  everything that she was saying was gonna go back
• 1:17:12
  in court, but she was just bold enough to just
• 1:17:16
  keep on going. And as she's going, she's losing
• 1:17:20
  money. I... I can't imagine her parents being
• 1:17:23
  dragged through this and like playing along with
• 1:17:27
  this, because they're also, I think they had
• 1:17:29
  some troubles. I looked up... Her parents were
• 1:17:34
  well -known media figures in the Bay Area, in
• 1:17:37
  California. And her... Oh, I think Laura was
• 1:17:42
  was lying on the stand saying that like, oh,
• 1:17:44
  yeah, maybe I saw Clayton on The Bachelor. I
• 1:17:46
  don't know. I don't really watch The Bachelor.
• 1:17:48
  And then literally the journalist cut to an audio
• 1:17:51
  of her father during a radio show where he clearly
• 1:17:54
  said, hey, my family is a bachelor house. Exactly.
• 1:17:58
  So it's just like, I don't even know. Like you
• 1:18:01
  just it's so crazy. And I would love to dive
• 1:18:03
  into her mind or like, like, and I probably no
• 1:18:07
  one will have a honest conversation with her.
• 1:18:09
  Because it's like, how far do you go to where
• 1:18:12
  you're just like, okay, like, I'm done. Like,
• 1:18:14
  take your L like it is what it is and not do
• 1:18:18
  this again. Now she's gonna have several... charges
• 1:18:21
  against her. And she's still, like, appealing.
• 1:18:24
  She's still doing this. To this day? Yeah. This
• 1:18:28
  is, again, I know you're only on episode eight.
• 1:18:31
  This is my spoiler alert. But if you look in
• 1:18:33
  the docket, it's not resolved at all. And she's
• 1:18:36
  still filing stuff in other cases. The unfortunate
• 1:18:40
  thing is because of that, that's, I guess, the
• 1:18:42
  only, like, not downfall of the podcast is that
• 1:18:44
  I think I probably listen to it prematurely or
• 1:18:47
  I wish I waited until everything wrapped up.
• 1:18:49
  because they do have to leave it on the cliffhanger
• 1:18:52
  because it's like, it's not done. Like, it's
• 1:18:55
  still happening. She's still playing these games
• 1:19:00
  and they'll go into detail. But mainly the rest
• 1:19:03
  of it that you're gonna hear is the past allegations
• 1:19:06
  and stuff because it's very new. As of April,
• 1:19:09
  I believe that she was still trying to file some
• 1:19:12
  things against the former people. So it's just
• 1:19:15
  like... She's not learning her lesson. She's
• 1:19:18
  just going and it's, it's, it's, I don't know.
• 1:19:22
  It gives somebody something to do, I guess. But
• 1:19:24
  it's just a lot because I know it's not cheap.
• 1:19:27
  I know she can't afford it because they, I looked
• 1:19:29
  it up. They're going through bankruptcy at this
• 1:19:32
  point in time. Oh my God. Yeah, no, no. I mean,
• 1:19:39
  the difference between Clayton getting up on
• 1:19:41
  the stand and Laura getting up on the stand is
• 1:19:43
  night and day because Clayton kept his story
• 1:19:45
  straight and consistent. Same facts all the way
• 1:19:47
  through, no matter how many time he was depositioned
• 1:19:49
  or whatever. And then Laura just kept changing
• 1:19:51
  her story. So obviously Clayton won that case.
• 1:19:54
  It was clear. Laura owes money. She had this
• 1:19:59
  weird sketchy moment where she said on paperwork
• 1:20:02
  that she's no longer pregnant, but... failed
• 1:20:04
  to describe why I'm wondering what you think
• 1:20:08
  about the internet community's role in this because
• 1:20:10
  initially going into this docu -series I just
• 1:20:13
  did my usual shaking up the head at how obsessed
• 1:20:16
  people can be Online like just having these parasocial
• 1:20:19
  relationships with Clayton and Laura as if like,
• 1:20:23
  oh my god Yes, these are relatives and I know
• 1:20:24
  everything about them and and and and we're close
• 1:20:27
  like that and these are co -workers I want to
• 1:20:28
  gossip about like the the intense way that people
• 1:20:32
  online on reddit particularly were getting involved
• 1:20:35
  in this case and trolling Clayton, trolling Laura
• 1:20:38
  going, like at first it was like the, my usual
• 1:20:41
  attitude towards the internet, which is get a
• 1:20:44
  life people, like stop, get, get off your computer,
• 1:20:47
  touch some grass, like stop being so, but then
• 1:20:49
  the, the, the positive thing about these people
• 1:20:52
  being so goddamn obsessive and having no life
• 1:20:54
  is that they help in the investigation because
• 1:20:57
  I think it was like the live stream of Laura,
• 1:20:59
  like answering questions at a deposition. And
• 1:21:02
  someone had noticed like, oh, wait a minute,
• 1:21:05
  you're drinking Monster and you're not drinking
• 1:21:09
  caffeine like that when you're pregnant. That's
• 1:21:14
  the thing. And those are like, I know it's a
• 1:21:17
  balance. Cause I will say even in just little
• 1:21:20
  old Massachusetts where it's, I'm dealing with
• 1:21:23
  clients that obviously don't have these big feelings.
• 1:21:25
  The first thing we do is rerun to social media.
• 1:21:29
  And obviously we're not asking about, oh, do
• 1:21:32
  you know anything about so -and -so? But if you
• 1:21:35
  just look long enough on somebody's page or you
• 1:21:38
  listen to their podcast and then you go into
• 1:21:40
  their comments, people are just naturally nosy
• 1:21:44
  and willing to either call somebody out or give
• 1:21:47
  you a little bit where it's like you can run
• 1:21:49
  with it. And I think the only reason why she
• 1:21:53
  wasn't able to pull one over... on Clayton because
• 1:21:56
  I think it would have been a situation if it
• 1:21:58
  wasn't for the media or if it wasn't for this
• 1:22:01
  attention. I honestly believe that Clayton would
• 1:22:03
  have settled just to make it go away. I purely
• 1:22:07
  do think that - Interesting you say that because
• 1:22:09
  I do remember at a certain point of the podcast,
• 1:22:11
  a journalist was saying that Clayton was so fed
• 1:22:15
  up with Lauren's bullshit that he was ready for
• 1:22:20
  - bad press, like he hadn't gotten so used to
• 1:22:23
  getting bad press during his time as the bachelor
• 1:22:26
  that, um, he was just fed up and he was going
• 1:22:30
  to, because I think Laura was like really making
• 1:22:32
  it public, like, Oh, this is, this is my baby
• 1:22:35
  daddy, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Clayton at
• 1:22:37
  a certain point, he went to like an Instagram
• 1:22:38
  story and said, this woman is bothering me. This
• 1:22:42
  is who she is. And I think Laura ended up like
• 1:22:45
  filing defamation suit against him, but he didn't
• 1:22:48
  care. He was just like, no, this is the, I've
• 1:22:50
  been going through this ordeal with this woman
• 1:22:52
  and I'm going to let public opinion decide. And
• 1:22:56
  thankfully the internet being as upset, they
• 1:22:59
  dug in, they found the facts and there you go.
• 1:23:02
  You get a live stream where someone was just
• 1:23:04
  like, wait a minute, what is, what is that little,
• 1:23:07
  uh, what is that? Oh, that's Fiverr. That's the
• 1:23:10
  Fiverr logo. Laura literally had somebody from
• 1:23:13
  Fiverr doctor the ultrasound. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:16
  No, definitely. And that's why I'm like without
• 1:23:18
  social media, I don't think he would have been
• 1:23:20
  that bold because I think that's what gave him
• 1:23:22
  the boost because he was also saying that like,
• 1:23:25
  there was one point in time where he low key
• 1:23:26
  believed it that it could be a possibility. And
• 1:23:29
  that's why I'm like, I think it was one of the
• 1:23:32
  first people that she did this to was the one
• 1:23:34
  who sort of reached out and gave him that. But
• 1:23:36
  that's why I'm like, you know what? bringing
• 1:23:38
  things to social media because he said it wasn't
• 1:23:40
  him and he was, although he was prepared, it
• 1:23:43
  was Laura who put that out on the internet, but
• 1:23:47
  Clayton was running out of money. These legal
• 1:23:49
  battles are not cheap. They're not cheap. And
• 1:23:53
  I think some, some bachelor nation pop culture
• 1:23:55
  podcasts or helped raise money along with the
• 1:23:57
  fans, the justice for Clayton. community helped
• 1:24:01
  raise money to pay his legal fees. They were,
• 1:24:03
  they were, they were ready to go to bat for Clayton.
• 1:24:05
  Yeah. Cause they know. And it, it just, it sucks.
• 1:24:08
  Cause it's like, again, you always want to believe
• 1:24:10
  a female, but when it's this, like, even though
• 1:24:13
  I got to a point where it's like, okay, I think
• 1:24:16
  you're not the most intelligent person to put
• 1:24:19
  yourself into this position. But still right
• 1:24:21
  is right and wrong is wrong. And this is like,
• 1:24:24
  at this point, I think everybody had to put aside
• 1:24:26
  and they were so just invested in her life, which
• 1:24:30
  was her downfall, because I do think she intended
• 1:24:33
  this to sort of build her up. And that's why
• 1:24:35
  she put that nugget out there. and she thought
• 1:24:38
  she would get more bad publicity for Clayton
• 1:24:40
  and people would support her. But then again,
• 1:24:43
  it's like people are nosy and people are like
• 1:24:45
  in the pictures, in there. They got, they gave
• 1:24:49
  Clayton some crap in the beginning, but then
• 1:24:51
  it's like as the others started to come out also
• 1:24:54
  I think was a good thing for him because if the
• 1:24:57
  others didn't speak out, I can assuredly say
• 1:24:59
  that I think Clayton would have been like, oh
• 1:25:01
  yeah, like. Oh, well, I'm just so honest or I'm
• 1:25:04
  just the good. That's why I can't stand him.
• 1:25:05
  He's like, I'm just so honest and this is why
• 1:25:08
  I put myself in these positions. And it's like,
• 1:25:10
  no, no, there's, there's other reasons why you
• 1:25:13
  find yourself in this position. If social media
• 1:25:16
  wasn't there to investigate and, and, and give
• 1:25:19
  their alternative theories or more detailed journalism
• 1:25:23
  than what you might see on TV. If it was the
• 1:25:25
  old school days, if this came out in like the
• 1:25:27
  nineties, then yeah, it would be a black and
• 1:25:28
  white thing of like, oh, okay. A bachelor that
• 1:25:32
  you don't like is being accused by this woman
• 1:25:37
  that he's her baby daddy and he's not willing
• 1:25:40
  to take responsibility for it. Like it would
• 1:25:42
  have just been this black and white thing of
• 1:25:43
  she's right and he's wrong. It would have been
• 1:25:46
  something like Maury. You know, like TV show
• 1:25:49
  Morrie, like you're the father and, you know,
• 1:25:51
  the guy's like, ah, but, you know, you're kind
• 1:25:53
  of wondering like, okay, maybe that guy is the
• 1:25:56
  father. No, and that's what it's like. I think
• 1:25:58
  a lot of us, cause when I first heard the story,
• 1:26:00
  I was like, yup, just another man denying his
• 1:26:02
  child. What's new type of thing. But I think
• 1:26:06
  that's why I like this podcast. Cause it's like
• 1:26:08
  something that I think all of us. kind of forgot
• 1:26:11
  to. Because again, you hear his name and you
• 1:26:14
  just shake it off. Like, it is. If you're invested,
• 1:26:17
  I feel like if you knew, you knew. If you didn't,
• 1:26:19
  and being on the outside, because I also was
• 1:26:21
  hesitant to listen to this podcast, because my
• 1:26:24
  true crime is more so like, somebody needs to
• 1:26:26
  die and I need to see what happened. I was like,
• 1:26:30
  oh, we're a fraternity student. I was like, this
• 1:26:31
  is work all over again. But then it's like, you
• 1:26:34
  see the things that you have to ask questions.
• 1:26:37
  And now... Listen, I can't be mad if a man is
• 1:26:40
  asking a million questions about like, okay,
• 1:26:44
  where's this? I need to see this doctor's note.
• 1:26:46
  Why are we not going to these doctor's appointments?
• 1:26:49
  Typically, you just be like, oh my gosh, you're
• 1:26:51
  just such a crappy baby father. Just believe
• 1:26:53
  her. But now it's just like, time out. Hold on,
• 1:26:56
  let's see these pictures. Let's go to these doctor's
• 1:26:59
  appointments. Let's be a bit more involved because...
• 1:27:02
  anybody can be in this situation. Because as
• 1:27:04
  you can see, you can make a claim for a child,
• 1:27:07
  and the child not even be born yet, and it's
• 1:27:09
  so invasive, they couldn't do a DNA test on the
• 1:27:11
  child. She could have easily lied and said, you
• 1:27:14
  know what, it was a miscarriage or I aborted
• 1:27:17
  the child. I know Planned Parenthood has to have
• 1:27:21
  these, like, non -dislo... Like, they can't disclose
• 1:27:23
  that to other people. So she could have played
• 1:27:26
  it off if she went that route. But... That's
• 1:27:28
  how it's just weird, because it's not for the
• 1:27:30
  money. That's the crazy part. It really is just
• 1:27:33
  for affection. Yeah. Yeah. She's just a mentally
• 1:27:37
  ill person that wants what she wants, despite
• 1:27:40
  the other person not wanting that. I think there
• 1:27:43
  was a point in the docuseries where Clayton was
• 1:27:46
  like, oh, I'll take a DNA test. I'll even pay
• 1:27:48
  for it. And he did send in his part of it. And
• 1:27:52
  I think Laura sent her part of it at one point
• 1:27:54
  in the docu -series and the result came back
• 1:27:57
  something like very little activity, which isn't,
• 1:28:01
  it's not exactly a confirmation of, Oh, this
• 1:28:04
  guy's not the father, but usually that. can mean,
• 1:28:08
  that can likely mean, oh yeah, you're probably
• 1:28:11
  not the father Clayton of this fake baby, this
• 1:28:14
  invisible baby. That's not even there. Yeah.
• 1:28:17
  Oh God. Anyway, so I'm looking forward to listening
• 1:28:21
  to more of the docu -series. I mean, it's so
• 1:28:25
  funny to see the Spotify estimated plays and
• 1:28:27
  see like the amount of plays for the bonus episodes
• 1:28:30
  lower than the main episodes, because these people
• 1:28:33
  like... listening there of my same mindset, which
• 1:28:36
  is just like, I don't give a shit about, oh,
• 1:28:39
  bonus episode, let's read Laura's emails. Yeah,
• 1:28:42
  let's read Laura's emails. No, no, I just want
• 1:28:44
  to get to the point. Give me, give me the progression
• 1:28:46
  of this story. Yeah. I just went straight. I
• 1:28:48
  didn't, I saw 15 hours. I went straight for the
• 1:28:51
  episodes. If there was not an episode number
• 1:28:52
  by it, I skipped it. I'm not even gonna lie.
• 1:28:55
  Exactly. We just want to get to the point. Well,
• 1:28:58
  for you, for you listening and watching, I mean,
• 1:29:00
  go check it out if you haven't, if we haven't
• 1:29:02
  already spoiled. it for you. Love Trapped, wherever
• 1:29:05
  you get your podcasts. It is so, so fantastic.
• 1:29:09
  And Sarah, you were fantastic for coming on The
• 1:29:12
  Delicious Culture! Thank you for having me! This
• 1:29:13
  was so much fun! Yay! For anybody interested
• 1:29:17
  in following you, how can they follow you on
• 1:29:18
  socials and anywhere else you want them to follow
• 1:29:20
  you? Oh, I am s .dean on Instagram, and I think
• 1:29:26
  the same on TikTok, but I don't really post.
• 1:29:30
  Yes. Huh? How do you spell Dean? D -Y -N -E.
• 1:29:35
  Oh, I forget. It's the dying way. It's D -Y -N
• 1:29:38
  -E. So S that D -Y -N -E. Not really active,
• 1:29:42
  but like maybe once everything is settled, I
• 1:29:45
  will be more. Understandable. Because this is
• 1:29:48
  definitely, this is a good time and time goes
• 1:29:51
  by fast. I love it. It does. Yeah. Now, I mean,
• 1:29:55
  for the listener and watcher, that might be a
• 1:29:57
  fair debate because we've been going for almost
• 1:29:58
  two hours, but yeah, that's what I like about
• 1:30:02
  podcasting. Like when you're actually in the
• 1:30:03
  moment having a conversation, I just, yeah, the
• 1:30:05
  time can go back quickly. So listen and watch
• 1:30:08
  the Delicious Culture wherever you get your podcasts,
• 1:30:10
  y 'all. YouTube, Apple, Spotify, iHeart, Amazon,
• 1:30:13
  Series XM, everywhere you get your podcasts.
• 1:30:15
  If you like us on Spotify, leave us a five -star
• 1:30:18
  rating. If you like us on Apple podcasts, leave
• 1:30:21
  a written review. I'm told it helps the algorithm.
• 1:30:24
  Email with any feedback, thedeliciousculture
• 1:30:26
  .gmail .com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok
• 1:30:29
  at The Delicious Culture. And we have two channels
• 1:30:31
  on YouTube. Do not get confused. At The Delicious
• 1:30:34
  Culture, John Francois is where you get the full
• 1:30:37
  episodes of the podcast. And at John Francois
• 1:30:40
  Clips is where you get shorter, sort of like
• 1:30:43
  two to four minute segments of the podcast. John
• 1:30:46
  Francois, J -O -N, last name, F -R -A -N -C -O
• 1:30:49
  -I -S. Okay, Sarah, this was great. We got to
• 1:30:52
  do this again. Yes. Oh my gosh. It was great.
• 1:30:56
  Thank you. This is my first podcast, so I love
• 1:30:59
  it. Hopefully it's not going to be your last,
• 1:31:01
  but please, I don't want to hear about you stalking
• 1:31:04
  a guy and falsely claiming paternity tests on
• 1:31:07
  Love Trapped. Oh, absolutely not. I mean, it's
• 1:31:10
  locked in with questions at this point. Yeah,
• 1:31:12
  yeah. Hopefully that's not your second podcast.
• 1:31:16
  But I also look forward to it and I hope you
• 1:31:19
  can definitely... Come on the fourth. Yes. We're
• 1:31:23
  recording this on June 17th, uh, Sarah and quest.
• 1:31:26
  They got their, their baby gender reveal on July
• 1:31:28
  4th. I would definitely rather be celebrating
• 1:31:30
  that than America's 250th birthday. So we want
• 1:31:33
  to be there because there's really not that much
• 1:31:38
  to celebrate about in America, but your baby
• 1:31:41
  we're going to celebrate very much. So yes. All
• 1:31:45
  right. For all of you listening and watching
• 1:31:46
  let deliciousness ring.