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Mini: Porn · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do Mini. I'm your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: host Abraham.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm Miro Shane.
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  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about all of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the things that people do, and sometimes we talk about
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  Speaker 1: the things that people do explicitly using explicit terms.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, today is all about porn and where it came
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  Speaker 2: from and what it is and all the fun things
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  Speaker 2: to go along with that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is a short form series that we do
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  Speaker 1: that We normally release these sort of forty five minutes
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  Speaker 1: hour long ish or even longer sometimes episodes on Mondays.
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  Speaker 1: We release these short series that are meant to be
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  Speaker 1: a bite sized dive into a single topic. And one
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  Speaker 1: that has come up before is that what is porn
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  Speaker 1: even really? Part of this stems from a nineteen sixty
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  Speaker 1: four case Jacobellis Jacobolis Jacobellis I'm gonna say Jacobella's versus Ohio,
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  Speaker 1: which came before the Supreme Court and the at the
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  Speaker 1: time Justice Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart was frustrated at
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  Speaker 1: deciding the qualifications for the threshold of violations for obscenity laws,
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  Speaker 1: and when asked to define the threshold for obscenity. He said, quote,
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  Speaker 1: I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds
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  Speaker 1: of materials I understand to be embraced within that shorthand
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  Speaker 1: description referring to hardcore pornography. And perhaps I could never
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  Speaker 1: succeed in intelligibly doing so, but I know it when
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  Speaker 1: I see it, and the motion picture involved in this
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  Speaker 1: case is not that end quote.
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  Speaker 2: Huh, well, Justice Stewart, I believe we can help. Let's
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  Speaker 2: take our clothes off and dive in. But actually, before
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  Speaker 2: we do that, I have a question for you. Did
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  Speaker 2: you ever do the thing when we were kids, where
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  Speaker 2: like you had to come up with your porn name
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  Speaker 2: and it was like like the street It was like
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the you know, your your your pets name, and then
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  Speaker 2: like your middle name or your pets name and the
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  Speaker 2: street you were born on or anything like that. Did
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  Speaker 2: you ever do any of that?
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  Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, okay, my point name it. Actually it was
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  Speaker 1: pretty good. I would have been bo Prospect Bow Prospect.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's good. Mine would have been It was either
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  Speaker 2: Buster Thomas or Buster Brooks, depending on which one I
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  Speaker 2: went with, but it was always Bust or something, which
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  Speaker 2: I was like that. That's pretty good. That's pretty good
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  Speaker 2: for that.
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  Speaker 1: That does work pretty good. So, yeah, the idea here
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  Speaker 1: with this case is that it was the sort of
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I know it
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  Speaker 1: when I see it, And that whole line of phrase
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  Speaker 1: has actually been used, It had been used before, it
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  Speaker 1: has definitely been used since to essentially say, like you
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  Speaker 1: kind of just know if you know, you know, otherwise
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  Speaker 1: you don't know. But that being said, we're talking specifically
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  Speaker 1: about porn. We weren't gonna help define that because it
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  Speaker 1: can be tough to do, so I guess, and so
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  Speaker 1: we're going to unpack that. And first let's get into
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  Speaker 1: the etymology of this word. This comes from the Greek
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  Speaker 1: porne I'm guessing pornie maybe, which meant prostitute, and graphien,
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  Speaker 1: which meant right, And so pornographos meant writing about prostitutes,
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  Speaker 1: and that eventually became the English word pornography in the
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  Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds, albeit yet still undefined.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, also a fairly new term, which is like really
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  Speaker 2: fascinating given that it was like only the eighteen hundreds
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  Speaker 2: that had started showing up. Yeah, now, the scope of
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  Speaker 2: the conundrum of defining obscene and explicit materials is made
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  Speaker 2: evident by the rapidly shifting policies of online media platforms,
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  Speaker 2: particularly social media. That does make it a little bit
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  Speaker 2: more complex when we start talking about what specifically classifies
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  Speaker 2: as pornography.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, for example, is an exposed female breast pornographic.
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  Speaker 1: It depends, but probably not if it's being used in
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  Speaker 1: like a medical training class or sex education, or for
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  Speaker 1: it's not pornographic to a baby who is breastfeeding. But
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  Speaker 1: Facebook and other social media companies did initially censor these
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  Speaker 1: images as being essentially porn or lewd obscene images, but
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  Speaker 1: they were criticized for doing so for someone who, for example,
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  Speaker 1: it was breastfeeding, or it was something medical or whatnot,
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  Speaker 1: and so they subsequently rewrote their policies to allow for
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  Speaker 1: these depictions in certain scenarios.
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  Speaker 2: Right in body parts that were dubbed sexual nature. This
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  Speaker 2: would include body parts that identify as primary or secondary
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  Speaker 2: sex organs, so breast, penis, vulva, vagina, ans, all this stuff, right,
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  Speaker 2: They're all generally not permitted in widely available websites that
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  Speaker 2: provide space for photos and videos like Instagram, Facebook and
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  Speaker 2: all that, except when the context is not sexual. So
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  Speaker 2: for example, you can find videos and photos of on
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  Speaker 2: these platforms of women giving birth, the STIs breastfeeding, genital surgery.
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  Speaker 2: Fairly like you can find all that stuff without censorship.
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  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, even Spotify, like covers, if
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  Speaker 2: it's like part of the art can be pretty explicit.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, all you got to do is look up
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  Speaker 2: there's a typo negative record that like it's literal, it's
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  Speaker 2: penetrative sex on the cover, and it's still up there,
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  Speaker 2: and people don't really say anything about it. All right,
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  Speaker 2: it's like a close up too. You're like, you can't
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  Speaker 2: mistake it.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, like, oh I know what that is. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: as you said, even in art and in these other mediums,
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  Speaker 1: it's considered essentially not pornographic. Books and podcasts will describe
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  Speaker 1: explicitly sexual scenarios that are really just a part of
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  Speaker 1: a broader narrative arc relevant for the characters in this
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  Speaker 1: totally fictionalized story. Or even sometimes there are autobiographical stories,
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  Speaker 1: but it's it's meant to serve part of the narrative
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  Speaker 1: context there too, And this is often considered acceptable except
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  Speaker 1: in Florida and in Idaho and continuing.
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  Speaker 2: Probably don't even get me started Tennessee, for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but those are our situations where again, it's not
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  Speaker 1: actually consider pornographic. It is just an element of the
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  Speaker 1: art or whatever the depiction that's going on, that's part
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  Speaker 1: of a story, right.
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  Speaker 2: And furthermore, you can actually find all sorts of videos
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  Speaker 2: and photographs on pornographic websites that do not include exposed
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  Speaker 2: body parts at all, So the exposure does not necessarily
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  Speaker 2: make it pornographic, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there seems to be a really crucial element here
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  Speaker 1: to what is pornography, and one that has turned out
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  Speaker 1: to be and will continue to be very difficult to
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  Speaker 1: actually prove. And we will get into that after these
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  Speaker 1: pornographic ads. All right, So that's all sort of getting
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  Speaker 1: to the important caveats and complications and unpacking what pornography is.
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  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and define it then.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So pornography is any generated or recorded content that
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  Speaker 2: is intended to elicit sexual erotic reactions from the audience.
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  Speaker 2: This is why pornography might include an auditory description of
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  Speaker 2: something that might involve a sexual act and might not,
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  Speaker 2: but be intended to stimulate sexual excitement in the audience
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  Speaker 2: either way. So I think there's a key piece here
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  Speaker 2: this idea that we're talking about the intention of eliciting
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  Speaker 2: sexual erotic reactions from people.
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  Speaker 1: And that is essentially the part that is impossible to
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  Speaker 1: prove is like, you know, you can't necessarily declare what
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  Speaker 1: the intention is, and there's so many examples, and like
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  Speaker 1: I said, one important feature of trying to draw a
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  Speaker 1: line of delineation is when people who make and host
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  Speaker 1: pornography what they choose as their content. There's a whole
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  Speaker 1: category called safe for work or SFW, this category of
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  Speaker 1: porn that does not feature explicit sexual imagery or acts,
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  Speaker 1: that is still featured as part of a suite of
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  Speaker 1: things offered by pornographic websites.
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  Speaker 2: Right In, some sexual fetiches do not include sexual images
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  Speaker 2: or acts, but might include specific clothing or scenarios that
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  Speaker 2: the viewer might be sexually excited by. So it doesn't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily require again penetrative sex or even acts of sex
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  Speaker 2: at all.
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  Speaker 1: Right, And so this comes to this point here of like,
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  Speaker 1: how can you prove the material was what the material
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  Speaker 1: was intended to elicit? You can't. You just can't. Even
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  Speaker 1: the participation on a pornographic medium does not mean that
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  Speaker 1: the content was created with the intent of being sexually arousing.
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  Speaker 1: There are pieces of art, movie, television shows that have
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  Speaker 1: scenes that maybe contain nudity or something that is somewhat sexual,
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  Speaker 1: even if it doesn't include anything exposed, that will then
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  Speaker 1: be clipped and moved to a pornographic website again, because
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  Speaker 1: some people find they sort of fetishize that element of
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  Speaker 1: the depiction in the art, and so it becomes something
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  Speaker 1: that someone finds arousing even though it wasn't intended for it,
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  Speaker 1: but then it slotted into a delivery mechanism that is
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  Speaker 1: intended for an audience who's seeking that kind of sexual arousal.
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  Speaker 2: Right, and so even content that was designed to avoid
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  Speaker 2: being sexually arousing might be for some people with if
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  Speaker 2: it fetishes. I mean, that's how we end up on
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  Speaker 2: the subject of couches in this.
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  Speaker 1: Episode, which inside a very topical reference there. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think the point of all of this is like things,
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  Speaker 1: First of all, you can't you can't really control how
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  Speaker 1: someone responds to their own arousal towards something else. Like
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  Speaker 1: people will find sexual arousal out of things that do
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  Speaker 1: not contain nudity. People will not find sexual arousal from
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  Speaker 1: things that do contain nudity. There is no clear line
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  Speaker 1: of delineation about what this could be. It really has
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  Speaker 1: to do with how it's being consumed in the intention
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  Speaker 1: for which it was made, or the intention for which
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  Speaker 1: it was platformed in a particular space. That is essentially
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  Speaker 1: what pornography does. And I think all of that is
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  Speaker 1: to say the main point here is chill out for
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  Speaker 1: all of you who are concerned about this. As long
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  Speaker 1: as it is consensual and no one is getting hurt
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  Speaker 1: or at least not seriously hurt, depending on what you're
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  Speaker 1: you're consentually dating in there, It's really none of your
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  Speaker 1: business why or what someone chooses to observe in their media.
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  Speaker 1: It really isn't It just doesn't. It really doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 1: Like someone might get like, really get off on cartoon frogs.
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  Speaker 1: It's weird. They might want to seek help for that.
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  Speaker 1: But should we start making it so that there are
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  Speaker 1: no more cartoon frogs. No, that's stupid. Like, it just
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  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what someone else is sexually aroused by in
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  Speaker 1: the media they consume again, consent, consent, consent. Those of
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  Speaker 1: you naysayers are going to hear this and say, what
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  Speaker 1: about child pornography? Children cannot consent. Consent is everything, So
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  Speaker 1: like that is one that does not count as a
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  Speaker 1: thing that people should be able to consume. That is,
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  Speaker 1: of course, when we draw the line in all of
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  Speaker 1: this saying someone where someone is sexually coerced, that does
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  Speaker 1: not count. That is not consent, So like those things
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  Speaker 1: are not like the things we're consent does not obtain
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  Speaker 1: that is obscene, that is lewd, That is stuff that
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  Speaker 1: should not be facilitated, because those that is exploitation of
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  Speaker 1: real humans and should not be tolerated. But as long
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  Speaker 1: as it's consent, then it is really none of anyone's
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  Speaker 1: business what people choose to consume as far as their
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  Speaker 1: own entertainment and arousal.
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  Speaker 2: Right, absolutely so. As far as why porn exists, that
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  Speaker 2: one is super easy. So sex is something that we
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  Speaker 2: are generally biologically prepared to find enjoyable because this facilitates
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  Speaker 2: the continuation of our species. It makes sense from an
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  Speaker 2: evolutionary standpoint. All of the things that a company sex
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  Speaker 2: can therefore listen a sexual response in us, even when
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  Speaker 2: it seems far removed from the actual sex. For example,
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  Speaker 2: some people find making a mess with food very arousing,
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  Speaker 2: even though this is not inherently sexual do your own thing.
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  Speaker 2: That's totally fine. And most importantly, anything that we can
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  Speaker 2: enjoy that can be commoditized, will be commoditized and sold
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  Speaker 2: to a willing audience. So that's kind of what we
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  Speaker 2: have done historically. The idea of sex and pornography and
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  Speaker 2: sex toys has existed since humans have existed, So just
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  Speaker 2: relax about it. As long as everybody's consenting, Just know that,
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  Speaker 2: like people will also find a way to sell it to.
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  Speaker 1: Now, yes, that's basically it, all right. I think that
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  Speaker 1: is all that I have to say about porn. Anything
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  Speaker 1: you'd like to.
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  Speaker 2: Add, nothing else on my end, all right.
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  Speaker 1: If you'd like to support the show, you can join
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon, pick up some merch, leave us a rating, review, like,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and subscribe. You'd like to tell us about porn, you
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: can email us directly at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: or reach us on the social media platforms. Otherwise, that
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: is all that I have. Thank you for listening. This
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: is Abraham, it's Shane. We're out by E.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Why we do what we do.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com thanks for listening, and we
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: hope you have an awesome day.