Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the glorious Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to the glorious Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blunt penknife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker. Quicker, Quicker.
• 0:40
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt penknife.
• 0:42
  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast I'm here today with a
• 0:48
  hamster virgin commentator, but not a virgin to a hamster with a
• 0:53
  blunt penknife. Mr. Dan Penn.
• 0:55
  Hello Dan. Hello Joe, great to be here.
• 0:59
  Oh my God, what will you tell everybody else where you've been
• 1:02
  elsewhere, please, in the in the hamster verse?
• 1:05
  Oh yeah. So I've done a handful of of
• 1:10
  podcasts started on Luke Malloy's Lost and Gallifrey and
• 1:15
  What a. Place to start.
• 1:17
  Oh yeah, I was, I was. I was delighted to be asked on
• 1:21
  it, to be honest, because they didn't have very many guest
• 1:26
  appearances or whatever. But yes, it's, it's Luke was
• 1:29
  very kind and had me on there and then and then they stopped
• 1:34
  doing the podcast not long after that.
• 1:35
  So I yeah. Did you finish them off?
• 1:38
  I I think I did. I hope I'm not curse.
• 1:40
  You're going to going to take the hand thumb down, I'm.
• 1:42
  Not sure anything could bring this down, but let's say yeah,
• 1:45
  we do. All right.
• 1:48
  Yeah, And then I did one with with Dave Rennie.
• 1:52
  Yeah. Kept kept on a piece of string
• 1:54
  on. I think the first one was the
• 1:57
  the Android invasion and then I've done what's in the box with
• 2:05
  Jim Allenby that that was that was really good because because
• 2:08
  you it it's I love that format because it's quite personal
• 2:12
  isn't it the the things that you bring to the table on that so so
• 2:15
  it was really good it. Was certainly personal when I
• 2:17
  talked to him. Oh yeah, man.
• 2:21
  Alive, I was like. Did you get an education from
• 2:24
  that? Yeah, I'm so pleased.
• 2:28
  I I know I I I loved it and I I because I I think I DM D you
• 2:33
  about about it after after you know kind of thing and I was
• 2:35
  like you don't know me I hope you don't think I'm like some
• 2:40
  weird stalker but yeah really got the you know oh God but yeah
• 2:48
  yeah and then I've done another one with Dave since then time
• 2:51
  lash which was. Glorious.
• 2:53
  Glorious, that episode. Yeah, and then obviously I've
• 2:57
  done a I've done a Strictly episode with yourself and and
• 3:00
  Rods, and it was and Mark Cochrum, which is yet yet to be
• 3:06
  released into the wild. Although I'll suspect it'll be
• 3:09
  out by the time this is released, so if you haven't
• 3:12
  heard that already, why not? Yeah, listen to me.
• 3:17
  Actually, we got to talk about bandits, enormous green penises,
• 3:21
  you know, the Empress being eaten.
• 3:24
  Yeah, yeah. Well, that was a good one, I I
• 3:27
  enjoyed that very much. Well, look, you had the entire
• 3:30
  body of Doctor Who to choose from to do as your first
• 3:35
  commentary. I kind of left it open to you.
• 3:38
  And why don't you tell everybody what you've chosen to talk about
• 3:42
  today? Yeah, well, we are going to to
• 3:46
  build high for happiness because we're talking about Paradise
• 3:49
  Towers from season 24. A bold choice, may I?
• 3:53
  Say yeah I yeah because because it's one of those ones.
• 3:58
  I think you either like it or you don't.
• 4:01
  And I think there's probably more people that don't like it
• 4:04
  than than do. Although I would say there seems
• 4:08
  to be a softening of opinion to season 24 because because it was
• 4:13
  it was generally hated and you know this is this is going to
• 4:18
  kill Doctor Who off and and what have you.
• 4:21
  Whereas I think over time, because I think those of us that
• 4:23
  watched it when we were kids, we're now we're we've now got
• 4:27
  the voice, haven't we anyway. And I think we're kind of
• 4:29
  banging the drum for actually, no, it was, it was good, you
• 4:32
  know? It's all those people you know
• 4:34
  that are podcasting. You're right.
• 4:35
  It's and people of a particular age bracket.
• 4:39
  I won't say of a particular age because that sounds rude, but
• 4:43
  let's say 30 or over who were kids then and are adults now.
• 4:48
  And I've been stripping, talking to so many of those people on
• 4:51
  this podcast that I've gone from, you know, lamenting this
• 4:55
  era of Doctor Who to holding it high the best.
• 4:59
  I mean, I've done a complete 180 on McCoy, on the ERA, on all of
• 5:03
  it. Yeah, because because my I've
• 5:06
  had peaks and troughs with it. So I loved it when I was a kid
• 5:11
  and and I thought it was, it was the bee's knees.
• 5:13
  It was the best thing ever. And then you, I suppose you kind
• 5:20
  of expand your horizon a little bit beyond the TV and you start
• 5:24
  buying things like Doctor Who magazine, you start reading
• 5:27
  those sort of factual books. You know, we had, we had loads
• 5:32
  that come out in the early 90s, didn't we, Like the the, you
• 5:36
  know, the 80s and those handbooks and all that sort of
• 5:38
  thing. And you, you're bombarded with
• 5:42
  this kind of like, Oh yeah, it's not as good as it was in the
• 5:44
  60s. And you know, this isn't great.
• 5:47
  This is, this is trash and all this sort of stuff.
• 5:50
  And I think, I think because personally for me, I was
• 5:53
  obviously in my formative years and I had no other Doctor Who
• 5:57
  voice in my head because I my, my journey with Doctor Who was
• 6:02
  was very, very lonely. No one else in the town that I
• 6:05
  grew up in like Doctor Who. It was just just me and I I kind
• 6:10
  of like, oh boy, they must be right.
• 6:12
  They they must be right because these, these guys have seen it
• 6:15
  all. I've only seen this, you know, a
• 6:17
  fraction of the the series. So at the million times, you
• 6:21
  know, you know things like the handbooks, the how Stammer
• 6:23
  Walker handbooks, They're like, they're not academic texts, but
• 6:27
  they're laid out intelligently. Like when you're a kid reading
• 6:32
  those, it feels like a fact book rather than a critique.
• 6:36
  Yeah yeah yeah definitely and and and I and I think and and I
• 6:42
  I guess that's probably true of every factual book that the the
• 6:45
  authors or the author will come at it from a a biased opinion
• 6:52
  that you know it's very it's very rare for them to be sort of
• 6:55
  like we're going to be really balanced and really fair with
• 6:58
  this and and and I think there's the scales were were were
• 7:04
  definitely tilted in in in the favour of of earlier Doctor Who
• 7:08
  than later. Well, I hear podcast hosts are a
• 7:12
  little biased as well sometimes. You know, when they when they
• 7:15
  record these things. Oh really?
• 7:20
  I'll barely mention the Steven Moffat ever, you know.
• 7:24
  Yeah but yeah so so I had this period where I I because it's
• 7:31
  what I was being told by by adults and and and and like you
• 7:36
  say people of authority I suppose within fandom.
• 7:41
  I kind of really fell out of love and I I I thought you know
• 7:45
  Sylvester was the worst doctor. I thought you know the the the
• 7:50
  the end of the 80s was was the the period that killed Doctor
• 7:54
  Who because because that's what I was being told and then.
• 7:57
  Turn that around then. Yeah, yeah, my mum and my
• 8:05
  sister. So I I have got two older
• 8:07
  sisters, one's 12 years older than me and one's 13, so I
• 8:12
  basically grew up with three mums.
• 8:15
  They mothered me. Oh, that sounds wonderful.
• 8:18
  Well yeah, it is because because basically the they were popping
• 8:22
  off to the the big town Barnstable in in North Devon and
• 8:27
  they were going oh, is there anything you want us to bring
• 8:28
  back? And again I would chance my arm.
• 8:32
  Yeah, can I have a Doctor Who video?
• 8:34
  And they brought me back Ghost Light, and I know I can remember
• 8:43
  feeling God. Oh no.
• 8:46
  The best stories ever was wrong. Yeah, it's the worst dog.
• 8:51
  But and it I mean I love visuals.
• 8:57
  I, I and and that's one of it's one of the most for me, one of
• 9:04
  the best VHS covers. I think the artwork on that I
• 9:07
  think it's Colin Howard I think did most of those VHSS at that
• 9:12
  time and it's just brilliant. The likeness of Sophie and
• 9:16
  Sylvester, and it's really atmospheric and it's.
• 9:19
  The big yellow thing in the spaceship on the cover as well,
• 9:23
  I think, yeah, the thing that pulses with light down in the
• 9:25
  cellar. Yeah, yeah.
• 9:28
  And I thought, you know at the end of the day, put put, put
• 9:33
  aside that you know it's not a great doctor, therefore it can't
• 9:36
  be a great story. I it's a present for my mum and
• 9:40
  my sister. So you know what's not to like?
• 9:42
  I suppose I'll put it on, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 9:45
  Rather than just stick it on the shelf.
• 9:47
  And it didn't take long for me to think, Gee whiz, my opinion
• 9:55
  of this era is totally wrong. It's someone else's.
• 9:58
  It's not mine. So from that period onwards I
• 10:04
  just couldn't get enough of it and and I I think I've gone
• 10:07
  round to that kind of you know sort of like like 360 kind of
• 10:12
  I've gone back to the beginning where I loved it and and I I
• 10:16
  Sylvester's my doctor. You.
• 10:18
  Know Did you hold a house down as a Walker book burning party?
• 10:22
  No, they're they're still there on the shelf behind me
• 10:25
  somewhere. What a load of Cobblers.
• 10:28
  Good thing podcasting came along.
• 10:29
  We've been dissecting those opinions ever since.
• 10:32
  Yeah, because I'm pretty sure quite a few of the podcasts I've
• 10:36
  been involved in, I've slacked them off in some fashion or
• 10:39
  another. One, we love you.
• 10:40
  Honestly, David J Howe, we do have those.
• 10:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:43
  I mean, I mean he's done. I mean have you got like his,
• 10:47
  his target book and and the new adventures one.
• 10:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're just. Beautiful.
• 10:52
  I live with a Doctor Roof out. There's two copies of everything
• 10:54
  in this house, you know, I mean, bring it down to this level.
• 10:59
  And I hate to do this to you, but like they did give us the
• 11:02
  companions as well. I don't know if you ever saw
• 11:04
  that one. And remember, inside the cover.
• 11:08
  Yeah, indeed. There you go.
• 11:09
  So they did some good work as well.
• 11:13
  Oh yeah, yeah. And and, and I mean there can't
• 11:17
  be many TV series of that time that had had that much time and
• 11:24
  effort put into them from AAI want to say historian, but that
• 11:29
  sounds really weird when we're talking about a programme that's
• 11:32
  only like, you know, 60 years old or whatever.
• 11:34
  But but it was. It's almost like historians
• 11:36
  picking it apart and and telling us that journey and that story.
• 11:40
  I mean, I can't think of any other TV show that that has that
• 11:44
  much love put into it for more. So as well, you take out the
• 11:50
  reviews just like that section, the rest of it is all fact.
• 11:54
  So when we were learning, we were absorbing so much as well.
• 11:57
  Yeah, definitely. Well, look, swinging it around
• 12:00
  to this era. Then I've got a couple of
• 12:03
  questions for you before we go into episode one.
• 12:06
  My first question is, is this the weakest Sylvester McCoy
• 12:10
  season? My second question for you is
• 12:14
  you said you think people don't like this.
• 12:17
  Why might that be? And my third thing is a little
• 12:21
  game I want to play before we press play.
• 12:23
  So let's do the first one first. Is this the weakest Sylvester
• 12:25
  McCoy season? It that's a tough one to answer
• 12:32
  because because I think, I think I would say season 26 is peak
• 12:39
  Doctor Who. So.
• 12:40
  So I think that's that's the winner on on balance.
• 12:47
  You know you've got 25 which has got great stories in it like
• 12:51
  Remembrance and greatest show. Yeah.
• 12:57
  And and I I guess season 24 doesn't necessarily have one on
• 13:02
  that level, but saying that, it's a season that I feel
• 13:09
  really, really comfortable watching.
• 13:11
  I I find it a really easy watch. Whereas Season 25 doesn't
• 13:18
  necessarily hit that kind of comfort spot.
• 13:21
  And I don't know what that's about.
• 13:24
  But I think if subjectively, if I was looking at it, yes, Season
• 13:27
  25 is better. So season 24 is probably his
• 13:32
  weakest year to answer your question, but I find it an
• 13:35
  easier watch than 25. You're going to think I'm mad,
• 13:39
  you know, But my ranking of Sylvester McCoy seasons goes 3rd
• 13:44
  place 26. Really 25.
• 13:47
  First place 24. Wow.
• 13:49
  But I've detailed that elsewhere on many other podcasts.
• 13:52
  I mean, I think Delta and the Battlement is an absolute
• 13:54
  classic. OK, what was my second question?
• 13:58
  I've forgotten I was too busy listening.
• 14:02
  To your answer, why? Why do why do people know?
• 14:05
  That's right, yeah. Why do people like this story?
• 14:08
  I think it's it's a season. It's a transitional season and I
• 14:15
  think this probably is what you can consider the first proper
• 14:22
  Sylvester McCoy story because as much as a lifetime in the Rani
• 14:26
  is very much a Colin Baker script.
• 14:29
  Pip, Pip and Jane wrote it. They they wrote really well for
• 14:32
  Colin's Doctor. It wasn't what either Andrew
• 14:36
  Morgan or Andrew Cartmell wanted to put on the TV because I I I
• 14:40
  mean I've I. Shame on them.
• 14:44
  Well, I I I was lucky enough to go to a a remembrance
• 14:50
  celebration at the end of last year, held at the actual school
• 14:53
  where they filmed it. Oh.
• 14:54
  I saw that, yeah. Oh, it was.
• 14:56
  It was grand. I loved it.
• 14:57
  I was. What's the little girl Jasmine
• 14:59
  brakes there? No, but she did a she did an
• 15:03
  intro video for it because it because.
• 15:06
  It. Apparently, and I had no idea,
• 15:09
  but she. I think she works in television
• 15:12
  on Strictly Come Dancing so she was too busy to to to attend
• 15:17
  because obviously that that that period is when obviously it's
• 15:20
  all it's all go, go, go isn't it for the dancing building up to
• 15:23
  Christmas. You're trying to sell me her
• 15:25
  line delivery of You are a slave, Radcliffe.
• 15:28
  You are bored. To serve the Daleks did not
• 15:31
  destroy her career. No, no.
• 15:34
  An An acting career, maybe, but not a career.
• 15:37
  In she never she never acted again, just like that girl who
• 15:41
  played squeak and survival. Actually, I hear she's been in
• 15:43
  some soaps. Yeah, she was in Emmerdale,
• 15:45
  wasn't she? Yeah.
• 15:46
  Big role as well. Yeah, and and very popular in
• 15:50
  the lad lads mags of the late 90s.
• 15:53
  Early noughties as well. I think so.
• 15:55
  Oh really? Yeah, apparently it.
• 15:58
  Wouldn't surprise you to where I would know nothing about that.
• 16:03
  No, no it wouldn't. Although I keep talking to you
• 16:06
  straight, man, I fear I may learn soon.
• 16:08
  Do you know I think I want the term Dad.
• 16:10
  Honestly, keep keep telling me how beautiful Amy Boden Clara
• 16:13
  is. Bonnie Langford.
• 16:14
  I mean these beautiful women in Doctor Who.
• 16:17
  Yeah, but it was because I had a funny experience when when
• 16:24
  shooties first episode aired because my my boss, he's
• 16:31
  probably about five or six years older than me and he he's
• 16:37
  married, but he loves to go on and on about his conquests
• 16:43
  throughout his life. So we have one to ones at work
• 16:46
  and he. Yeah, he can't listen to his is.
• 16:48
  He oh, no, no, no. Well, I hope not.
• 16:52
  He give Anonymous. Just don't say the name, all
• 16:54
  right? Yeah.
• 16:55
  And yeah, he's just going on about, you know, this girlfriend
• 16:58
  and this, this partner and all this sort of stuff.
• 17:03
  And and then he he was going on that he goes, oh, I don't know,
• 17:06
  I don't know about him being in his pants, you know, for most of
• 17:11
  the episode. And I said, well, what's the
• 17:13
  problem? He's a, he's a good looking guy.
• 17:16
  Why? Why wouldn't you?
• 17:17
  Yeah. And he was like, he was all
• 17:19
  like, oh, you can't say that. And I was going, well, why not?
• 17:22
  You know, I I'm a straight man. I can say that that guy there's
• 17:26
  handsome. You know what?
• 17:28
  Of course, yeah. Actually, I feel like this is
• 17:30
  not casting explosions on anybody, but I feel like we're a
• 17:32
  lot more fluid than we actually believe.
• 17:36
  I mean, we believe we like to set parameters, don't we?
• 17:39
  I bet that fella wouldn't complain about watching the, you
• 17:42
  know, episode one A Planet of Fire, though, would he?
• 17:44
  With Nicola Bryant not wearing very much.
• 17:47
  No, no, he. How did we get here?
• 17:49
  I don't know. What were we talking about
• 17:51
  again? Oh yeah, Why?
• 17:52
  People don't like Paradise Towers.
• 17:55
  Oh, that's right. I don't know.
• 17:58
  You mentioned the event you went to, Remembrance event with
• 18:01
  Andrew Cartmell and Andrew Moore, director.
• 18:05
  Yeah, yeah. And so the the the the day
• 18:09
  kicked off with like an interview with Andrew Morgan
• 18:13
  about his career and all that sort of thing and he had so many
• 18:22
  good things to say about Remembrance and.
• 18:24
  No, don't say it. And nothing good to say about
• 18:30
  time in the Rani. Yeah the the there was there was
• 18:34
  just so much about it that he didn't like and then later on in
• 18:37
  the day you've you've got like a group sort of panel and and
• 18:43
  again you know he was then he was then joined by by Andrew
• 18:47
  Cartmell and and again yeah it wasn't it wasn't the story that
• 18:53
  he wanted to kick his ear off with and and obviously it's well
• 18:58
  documented there were lots of tensions between him and.
• 19:02
  Always glorious when you read that book.
• 19:06
  Yeah, you know, so, so you know when when you've, you've got
• 19:11
  people that were there that made it and they're going, yeah, this
• 19:14
  is. Isn't it?
• 19:18
  Isn't it wonderful then? There does seem to have been a
• 19:19
  bit of a renaissance for both the season these stories as
• 19:23
  well, you know. Oh yeah.
• 19:24
  Big time because because again that's that's the thing.
• 19:27
  It's like you know like you've got these people that made time
• 19:30
  in the Ronnie going yes, it's a it's a bag of crap you know
• 19:33
  coming. I there's so much in it to
• 19:36
  enjoy. I mean, Oh my God, it's.
• 19:38
  It's enormous. Great special effects and
• 19:41
  visuals and stuff like that. Technically it is way above
• 19:45
  competent, and Doctor Who is barely competent most of the
• 19:49
  time. You know those?
• 19:50
  Bubble traps, I mean, they're just brilliant.
• 19:52
  They just look fantastic even, you know, sort of like, you
• 19:55
  know, 30 odd years on they still stand up as being really, really
• 19:59
  good effects. I always make the argument that
• 20:01
  it is a bloody good panto and so your mileage of time in the
• 20:05
  Ronnie is is whether you like a panto or not.
• 20:07
  And some people really hate them and don't want their Doctor Who
• 20:10
  to bring them. I love them, so it's one of my
• 20:12
  favourites. Yeah, I I love, I love those
• 20:16
  camp adventures. I I just.
• 20:18
  I just find them, not. Going to be disappointed tonight
• 20:22
  then. So enjoyable and I think that's
• 20:25
  that's why I really love this season, Season 24.
• 20:29
  But I think I can, I can, yeah, I can kind of see why people
• 20:33
  don't because if that isn't your bag that you like, you know,
• 20:38
  serious proper drama, then this isn't the season for you.
• 20:45
  But if you if you like that sort of comic book kind of camp romp,
• 20:53
  then this is great. And yeah, I do think there is a
• 20:57
  sinister edge to this And Delta and Dragon Fire.
• 21:03
  If you look beneath the surface of all the sort of tinsel and
• 21:07
  crazy Kev McCulloch music, there's some dark things going
• 21:11
  on, especially in this story. Yes, yeah.
• 21:14
  I mean, yeah, I mean cannibalism and, you know.
• 21:21
  Mass murder? Yeah.
• 21:23
  Society gone to hell. Well, yeah.
• 21:26
  And the fact that, you know, we live in a day and age where, you
• 21:31
  know, child welfare is, is is quite a high priority.
• 21:36
  Basically, there's a gang of girls that were just kind of
• 21:38
  left to their own devices without adult supervision, so.
• 21:42
  We're basically there in society, aren't we?
• 21:45
  If people are, you know, can the food prices go up and the wages
• 21:49
  don't, then we may resort to cannibalism one day.
• 21:54
  Oh yeah, definitely. They called them oddball stories
• 21:57
  in the 80s. How did it become reality?
• 22:00
  Yeah, I mean that's the thing I think out out of the Sylvester
• 22:04
  McCoy era you it's funny how a lot of you can you can pick bits
• 22:10
  out of it and you think, jeez, you know they were almost
• 22:13
  telling the future, you know, as it is now.
• 22:17
  Well. Look, before we jump into
• 22:20
  episode one, I mean, people are getting good value out of us
• 22:22
  here. They've had 20 minutes out of us
• 22:24
  already, and we haven't even gone in yet.
• 22:26
  Well, it's the first time, you know, we've got a oh, yeah,
• 22:28
  yeah, cover some ground. I'd like to play a game that I
• 22:31
  call Kang Speak. So I've extracted certain lines
• 22:35
  from the script of which I require for you to do a a Google
• 22:40
  or rather a damp pin translation of if you wouldn't mind.
• 22:44
  OK. OK.
• 22:44
  I. Can do my?
• 22:47
  Best I'll try and do it with sort of the the way they say
• 22:49
  them in the in the story. OK, he wants to How you do, do
• 22:56
  we? Yeah, basically they wanted he
• 23:01
  wants to say hello. Yeah, meet and greet I've.
• 23:03
  Kind of got that one, but thank you very much.
• 23:06
  OK, Dan. Well, what you wear is high
• 23:08
  fabsion and ice hot for an old one.
• 23:11
  Yeah, despite the doctor's age, they they like what he's
• 23:16
  wearing. Are they tied and true?
• 23:22
  Oh, yes, yes. So this is the bit where they're
• 23:26
  they're tying up Mel and the Doctor, isn't it?
• 23:29
  And so I'm just, you know, it's like have have you tied the
• 23:32
  knots up nice and tight, You know, they're not going to
• 23:34
  escape. And finally, send the cleaners
• 23:39
  to the cleaners. Yeah, basically destroy destroy
• 23:44
  those robotic menaces with their attachments.
• 23:48
  Congratulations, you have made it into the Kang Gang.
• 23:51
  Would you like to be red or blue?
• 23:53
  Oh, red. Definitely red kangs of S.
• 23:55
  Yeah, you look fabulous in red as well.
• 23:57
  And actually blue looks quite good on me.
• 23:58
  We're being rival gangs. OK.
• 24:01
  But my point for doing that was that a lot of thought has gone
• 24:05
  into the setting here, hasn't it?
• 24:06
  And the society within. Yeah, I mean there, there, if
• 24:14
  you over analyse it, there are, there are a lot of things that
• 24:18
  don't make sense. When you point them out as we go
• 24:22
  through. Yeah, OK.
• 24:25
  But from a world that world building aspect to actually have
• 24:31
  got that, you know they've almost got their own version of
• 24:35
  English haven't they for for this the Kangs and and that
• 24:38
  would happen. You know like like I said you
• 24:41
  know these girls have kind of almost raised themselves haven't
• 24:44
  they you know there's there's been no adult there to you know
• 24:47
  and so therefore they've they've developed their own form of of
• 24:52
  of the English language and and I think that's brilliant from
• 24:55
  Stephen Wyatt it's just. I think it's a level of four
• 25:00
  that's gone into this script that some Doctor Who scripts
• 25:03
  just don't have. Like, you know, Terence Dudley
• 25:06
  would not be right in this, you know, and truly thinking about
• 25:10
  the world that he's creating. Well, look, I mean, there's tons
• 25:14
  to unpicking this and lots of wonderful guest actors and KEST
• 25:17
  music and the great records and all sorts.
• 25:20
  I suppose we better press play on episode one.
• 25:22
  What? Do you reckon?
• 25:22
  Yeah. Oh, definitely.
• 25:24
  Would you care to count as in then the very first commentary
• 25:27
  episode all? Righty, 321 go.
• 25:34
  So this music must do something for you then?
• 25:37
  Yeah, again, I mean it seems to be you either like it or you
• 25:42
  hate it. But but I think for me, because
• 25:45
  this is like I say the, you know, it's the first era of
• 25:49
  Doctor Who I watched week in, week out.
• 25:52
  So it does hold sort of special memories for me and it just
• 25:56
  takes me back to to being a small child in my bedroom
• 26:00
  watching a black and white TVI. Think a specific generation.
• 26:05
  This is the most exciting opening sting to any theme tune
• 26:10
  ever. Because like you say, it's a
• 26:13
  it's a basically a doorway back to being second again.
• 26:18
  But I mean, I should imagine that's true of anyone that what,
• 26:21
  you know, whatever era they watched that that interest takes
• 26:24
  them right back. For me, it might be actually,
• 26:26
  because my first real, like, repeated era is the VHSS of John
• 26:34
  and Tom. So that opened.
• 26:36
  Those openings really, really get me excited.
• 26:39
  Now look, we've gone from a very dark corridor there with that
• 26:43
  young girl being afraid to a very bright TARDIS.
• 26:47
  Yeah I I mean that was one thing you know when I was watching
• 26:51
  this for to prepare for for tonight is quite often 1980s
• 26:57
  Doctor Who is overlit and and it's a it's been you know a lot
• 27:01
  of stories are hit with that stick whereas with with this it
• 27:06
  feels like they've they've thought about the the lighting
• 27:11
  and and obviously the tard the TARDIS console is bright and
• 27:14
  light and airy whereas you know when you're in those corridors
• 27:18
  of of of paradise towers it it's dark it's gloomy you know it's
• 27:25
  it you know some you know they've thought about the set
• 27:32
  dressing as well you know that there's bits of you know filth
• 27:36
  and what have you up to the Aussie.
• 27:37
  Yeah, Doctor Who in the future is never dirty, is it?
• 27:42
  That that's the thing. Because, because you would.
• 27:44
  You know when when Doctor Who does Future, it's normally it's
• 27:47
  all white and glistening. Look at the.
• 27:49
  TARDIS Yeah, yeah. Whereas you you've seen that
• 27:53
  with, with, with, you know, they've thought about that sort
• 27:57
  of decay, that it's not a place that's been looked after because
• 28:00
  the main part of society went off to fight this war and it's
• 28:07
  gone to rack and ruin, you know, and I mean there's.
• 28:10
  Even like a rat isn't. There, it's in the next next
• 28:13
  scene, I think the Doctor boots a box and these rats come out.
• 28:16
  I mean, where has Doctor Who ever done that before?
• 28:19
  I I can't think of a time like and you know, I'm I am going to
• 28:23
  praise the sets and the lighting quite a bit as we go through
• 28:26
  this. Why?
• 28:27
  One issue with this is because it is shot on video.
• 28:32
  I can tell these are studios. Yeah, I think the thing that
• 28:37
  gives it away the most is the is the studio floor for whatever
• 28:41
  reason. They can't disguise it, they.
• 28:44
  Can't disguise it? No.
• 28:45
  And you know, you know that that is a a studio floor in the in
• 28:50
  the BBC building. But like to complain, The Doctor
• 28:54
  Who is shooting in a studio, multi camera on video, that's
• 28:58
  all of Doctor Who and so on. That logic I have to be
• 29:02
  unimpressed by all of it. So so I've just learnt to live
• 29:06
  with it because it's such a well created world.
• 29:09
  And and it looks big as well doesn't it it I mean like you
• 29:13
  don't feel that this is like a a tiny cramped set it it it does
• 29:20
  it's got a a sense of depth it's got a sense of scale there's
• 29:23
  there's multiple layers as well you know and.
• 29:27
  The breach that goes across, which means you can shoot from
• 29:29
  above quite a bit as well, which is really nice.
• 29:32
  Yeah. Oh, can I say something about
• 29:34
  this guy? Caretaker number 345.
• 29:36
  Strokes fell, subsection 3. Oh, it's really hot.
• 29:39
  When I went on Jim Allenby's podcast and spoke about the
• 29:42
  unexpectedly sexy men of Doctor Who, he was my pick for
• 29:45
  Sylvester McCoy years, even though he's only in three
• 29:47
  scenes. I've only listened to the first
• 29:50
  half, I haven't done the done the second one yet.
• 29:52
  Maybe I just like Fry and men, I don't know.
• 29:54
  No, I didn't. But it's making a big point this
• 29:59
  that even the authority figures are in danger.
• 30:03
  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and I think that's that
• 30:08
  that's the shocking revelation of it, isn't it?
• 30:11
  Is that the only one that's really safe and he ends up
• 30:14
  getting a meeting a grizzly and is is the the chief caretaker
• 30:17
  really? That's a wonderful moment, that.
• 30:20
  Yeah. You're such a wallet camp.
• 30:23
  And and like we've got like a blooded Kang scarf as well, that
• 30:27
  that's quite graphic for for Doctor Who, we don't normally
• 30:31
  see proper blood. I just think the the fact that
• 30:34
  this is a domestic setting, but it's a sort of urban setting
• 30:40
  with graffiti on the walls and things like this.
• 30:42
  This is carton or making his stamp.
• 30:45
  This is the sort of Doctor Who I want to tell about people in
• 30:49
  real settings. I know this is all a bit
• 30:51
  heightened and I because I do wonder if perhaps the director
• 30:54
  and the writer are on different pages.
• 30:56
  But yeah, like, it's definitely like a mission statement, isn't
• 31:01
  it? Yeah, I I think that, you know,
• 31:03
  we've already said how he, he wasn't happy with timing the
• 31:06
  Rani because it wasn't, it wasn't the type of Doctor Who
• 31:09
  that he wanted to tell. Whereas this this feels like
• 31:12
  this is your first proper Sylvester McCoy era story
• 31:18
  because this this is Cartmel's version of Doctor Who going
• 31:21
  forward. I wonder if, had this taken
• 31:24
  place in 25 or 26, some of the theatricality would have been
• 31:30
  toned down a bit and it would have been a bit more
• 31:32
  naturalistic. Yeah, Cos I think that's that's
• 31:35
  the thing like I mean I think the cans are wonderful but the,
• 31:40
  you know, they like, like we've saying they've got their own
• 31:42
  sort of language and what have you throughout this.
• 31:45
  But they are talking in, you know, that kind of BBC perceived
• 31:51
  room and you know how, how, how everyone was speaking on TV at
• 31:56
  that time. It was quite posh and you feel
• 31:57
  like. You could take them out of this
• 31:59
  production and put them into, say, the BB CS Taming of the
• 32:02
  Shrew and we wouldn't have too much trouble.
• 32:05
  No, no, no. They they needed to give them
• 32:08
  sort of, I suppose, some sort of regional accent.
• 32:12
  What's going on with those wigs as well?
• 32:14
  They all look like pack rockers. Yeah, certainly a look.
• 32:21
  Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Because again, I think, you
• 32:25
  know, they've gone to that point of like making the sets all
• 32:28
  grubby and grimy and what have you.
• 32:31
  But you would think that these, these girls would be the same
• 32:34
  that they'd be, you know, their faces would be, you know, rather
• 32:36
  than pristine makeup and everything.
• 32:38
  They would be smeared with, you know, dirt and what have you.
• 32:43
  Yeah. We're we're sort of halfway
• 32:45
  there aren't. We, yeah.
• 32:46
  Yeah. But I do appreciate the effort.
• 32:49
  Oh yeah, definitely. And I bet this felt super fresh
• 32:52
  when it first came out. To those people that had watched
• 32:55
  all of the Eric's award years, this must have felt really, But
• 32:59
  no continuity as well in this I I I won't.
• 33:02
  You know, it'd be because, like I say I I didn't really get to
• 33:06
  see much of of 1980s Doctor Who up until this point.
• 33:10
  I've just got little snippets in my my memory.
• 33:14
  But I wonder what it was like going from Colin Baker to to to
• 33:19
  this, because it feels like quite a directional change, a
• 33:24
  real, you know, forking the road kind of thing.
• 33:28
  Thinking like, in terms of the tone of the show and the
• 33:32
  portrayal of the doctor as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:35
  And I think I I know some people that love the kind of bakery
• 33:38
  when it went out and so really pushed against this.
• 33:42
  I think Pete Lambert really pushed against this when it came
• 33:45
  out. But then I know other people
• 33:47
  like Sy Hart, who are totally sort of pulled away from the
• 33:50
  show because Colin was violent and unpredictable and nasty and
• 33:54
  just adored Sylvester McCoy when he came in.
• 33:57
  Because he was, he was a lot warmer.
• 33:59
  Even though he does some questionable things, he's
• 34:02
  presented in a lot gentler fashion.
• 34:05
  Yeah, because because he's he's more like that, that sort of
• 34:07
  kindly, uncool kind of sonar, isn't it?
• 34:12
  Can I sing to you for a second? Yeah, go for.
• 34:17
  It, I mean, it's a bit like disco music.
• 34:24
  Yeah, and and this was the 2nd go at it as well, wasn't it?
• 34:28
  Because the first one got. Rejected.
• 34:30
  Have you heard it? No, I haven't.
• 34:32
  It's on. It's on the Blu-ray and I had an
• 34:35
  interesting conversation with a musician when I did dealt with
• 34:38
  the Bannerman who really says that the original score, it was
• 34:41
  right to ditch it, it's he said, he said it was like all
• 34:45
  atmosphere but no pace. So it's like a score from the
• 34:49
  60s, some of that sort of music, concrete style music.
• 34:53
  So J&T must have been like, what the hell is this like?
• 34:55
  There's there's no momentum to this music at all.
• 34:59
  But then on the other end of the scale, Lovely Kev comes along
• 35:02
  and goes right well, jazz it up a bit.
• 35:05
  Yeah, because because I think that bit that we've just watched
• 35:08
  where the the the cleaner is going into the basement and it's
• 35:12
  it's got the the kang's foot out the back the the music doesn't
• 35:16
  suit that scene very well is it? Because it's Dan's always quite
• 35:21
  heroic and and plastic, but you need to think darker and and you
• 35:26
  know, sinister, don't you there. What's funny is we keep having
• 35:29
  those scenes of the cleaners with their latest victim, you
• 35:33
  know, heading towards the basement.
• 35:35
  And that gets more comical as it goes, doesn't it?
• 35:38
  Fluffy slippers and all. Yeah, I love that one.
• 35:41
  It's crazy. Oh my God.
• 35:44
  You know what? We haven't even talked about the
• 35:45
  Doctor of Mel. No, no, we haven't.
• 35:48
  They've been about for quite a bit.
• 35:51
  Yeah, I mean, I mean one thing that's most noticeable is that
• 35:55
  we still haven't got the, the, the, the red question mark
• 35:58
  umbrella at the moment. That is very odd.
• 36:01
  That one isn't. It yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  This weird bamboo is that. You said it's in flux, it's in
• 36:08
  transition. But I I noticed he's not wearing
• 36:12
  his braces outside his pullover like he was in time in Irani,
• 36:16
  which which was a a weird choice.
• 36:20
  Which he says. Thank goodness Mel.
• 36:22
  In this incarnation I have regained a sense of hot couture.
• 36:27
  Oh no, look at this caretaker. He's hilarious.
• 36:30
  When he dies, it's all sort of boggly eyed.
• 36:32
  Do you like the cleaners? Do you like the design of the
• 36:34
  cleaners? I I do I don't understand the
• 36:42
  attachments that they got. I don't know how good they would
• 36:44
  be at cleaning with a drill and a buzz saw and you know when you
• 36:49
  my my wife said to me when I said I was I was I was recording
• 36:54
  this one with yourself and Paradise towers is is a firm
• 36:59
  favorite in our in our house. My son, my son loves it it.
• 37:03
  It's his favorite from from the classic era.
• 37:05
  Young man of great taste. Oh.
• 37:07
  Yeah, yeah. And.
• 37:10
  But my wife was going, you know, the Daleks would make better
• 37:13
  cleaners than the cleaners because at least they got a sink
• 37:16
  plunger and they could unblock the toilets, you know, And it's
• 37:19
  kind of, yeah, that doesn't make sense.
• 37:21
  Whereas you know. I sort of figured, like, if
• 37:24
  terrorist Dicks was scripted to take at this point, he'd cover
• 37:27
  it with a line, IE those are not the usual attachments that they
• 37:31
  have, but because they're doing horrible murders, somebody has,
• 37:35
  in fact, you know, refitted them.
• 37:37
  Yeah, but unfortunately there isn't that line.
• 37:39
  So you're like, well, what does that claw do?
• 37:42
  Yeah other than grab people around the neck as as as we see
• 37:49
  with this the the cleaner that's just the caretaker that's just
• 37:52
  it's got. They're never quite no matter
• 37:55
  what size they are, they're never quite fit inside the bin,
• 37:57
  do they? No.
• 38:00
  And it does beg the question with that opening, how did they
• 38:02
  get a body into it anyhow? Because it's just a little slip
• 38:06
  with the legs out. I, I think that's one of those
• 38:09
  questions that you said that we shouldn't ask, yes.
• 38:12
  Yeah. So the 7th Doctor and Mel.
• 38:17
  How do you find them and Mel in general?
• 38:21
  Yeah, no, I I I like Mel. I I mean, I don't, I don't
• 38:26
  understand the the creative decision to have a scream at a
• 38:31
  drop of a hat that feels like a a real backward step for for
• 38:38
  Doctor Who companions. You know it feels like something
• 38:41
  that Susan would have done in the 60s but as a as a character,
• 38:46
  I rather like her, you know as as you know, I I don't get me
• 38:50
  wrong I I really like Perry. But you you keep asking that
• 38:56
  question that your relationship with the doctor isn't the
• 38:59
  greatest. You're always arguing what you
• 39:01
  doing there. Whereas with Mel, she you you,
• 39:06
  you never get that impression that she doesn't want to be with
• 39:08
  a doctor, she get you get that impression that she's enjoying
• 39:11
  the adventures she loves that life.
• 39:13
  Why the reverse? In fact, look, Doctor, look,
• 39:16
  there it is at the top. The swimming pool, you know.
• 39:19
  I mean, she's got some enthusiasm, hasn't she?
• 39:22
  Yeah. Oh, man.
• 39:23
  Alive. Yeah, I mean that.
• 39:24
  That's the thing, you know. Unfortunately she, I guess
• 39:29
  Bonnie Langford at this point was stage rather than TV and and
• 39:35
  therefore she gives a very theatrical stage performance, I
• 39:39
  suppose. She's playing it as written,
• 39:41
  like, like, I think she only ever plays what's written now in
• 39:45
  the new series. She's written as a much more
• 39:48
  muted, you know, naturalistic character.
• 39:51
  So she plays it that way here. She's given lines like, you
• 39:54
  know, pegs. Is it true?
• 39:56
  Sent by powers you're not allowed to name?
• 39:59
  You know, like, how do you play that?
• 40:00
  You can't underplay those lines. Yeah, yeah.
• 40:03
  No, no, it's very true. That is very true.
• 40:05
  But I mean, like, you know, Bonnie Langford, now she's been
• 40:09
  in gritty things like like EastEnders and all that, for
• 40:12
  instance. So you feel you know and and it
• 40:16
  was like it's like David Tennant coming back and and doing the
• 40:19
  14th Doctor. You can see his improvement as
• 40:23
  an. I mean, he was a good actor back
• 40:24
  when he was 10, but when he when he was 14, you can.
• 40:28
  Love to see more, Dan. Oh yeah, he really had it,
• 40:31
  didn't he? Yeah, 3 three episodes wasn't.
• 40:35
  No, but it was lovely to see all the same.
• 40:39
  Well, it it got my wife interested in Doctor Who again,
• 40:42
  because she'd fallen away with Capaldi.
• 40:46
  Jodie didn't do anything for her.
• 40:48
  And then when it was like, oh, David Tennant's coming back.
• 40:51
  She's she was there. She was there watching it with
• 40:53
  me. You sure?
• 40:54
  It wasn't Bonnie Langford coming back there.
• 40:56
  Do you? Oh, possibly, Possibly.
• 40:58
  I was so excited to see Mel with that in the giggle.
• 41:02
  Yeah. Oh, big time.
• 41:03
  And then and then shootie. Oh, she loves him.
• 41:06
  She thinks he's the sexiest thing ever.
• 41:07
  So. Well, I mean, she's probably
• 41:09
  been checking out his Instagram account he.
• 41:12
  Shredded that guy. But I you're right.
• 41:17
  I do think it is a long past time we have somebody that wants
• 41:21
  to be having adventures. I do.
• 41:24
  I always say I I prefer Bonnie with Colin.
• 41:27
  I think there there's a real match and they're only in six
• 41:30
  episodes on TV, but they've done a well for big finishes and they
• 41:33
  just have excellent chemistry, Colin and Bonnie, and she sort
• 41:37
  of, he has no chance to be arrogant around her because
• 41:40
  she's always telling him off, which is how Colin works
• 41:43
  brilliantly. I do think McCoy and Bonnie work
• 41:47
  well together, but it's sort of a more of an even playing field.
• 41:51
  She can't really push McCoy around like she does with Colin
• 41:54
  because he's nice, you know? So it's two sort of nice people,
• 41:58
  which is a little less interesting.
• 42:00
  Yeah, I I I think that's the thing you know when you think of
• 42:03
  the McCoy era you think of him and an ace rather than him and
• 42:06
  Mel, don't you? And and I think there's reasons
• 42:10
  for that because like you say there's there's the contrasting
• 42:13
  in characters where he's he's a very measured and like almost
• 42:21
  anti violence in a way, isn't it?
• 42:22
  Because a lot of lot of the times that he gets out of
• 42:26
  situations, he talks his way out of them rather than fight.
• 42:29
  Whereas his ace, he just wants to blow it up and it and it's a
• 42:33
  good contrast. McCoy literally said, didn't he?
• 42:36
  He didn't want his doctor to do any violent acts at all.
• 42:39
  It's why that moment in Battlefield where he nearly
• 42:41
  decapitates Maldred was supposed to really hear, because it was
• 42:45
  him sort of succumb into violence for the first time.
• 42:49
  Unfortunately, poor Sylvester doesn't do anger very well.
• 42:51
  Oh, terrible. Not it's not.
• 42:53
  Not playing with Strange. Do you know I?
• 42:56
  Are you gonna be bold and say, I think he gives some of his best
• 43:00
  performances in 24, and it's because it's like Trout and in
• 43:04
  the underwater menace, right? He's coming up against people
• 43:08
  that are so over the top, he has to bring it down.
• 43:11
  He's never going to top them. So with Rich Briers in this,
• 43:14
  he's underplaying all those scenes while Briers is going
• 43:17
  wildly over the top as a result. He's really compelling to watch,
• 43:23
  yeah. Yeah he's because I think it's
• 43:24
  those quieter moments that he he does them so well and and which
• 43:30
  is I think as as his as his time goes on I I guess the the they
• 43:37
  they don't they have less and less of those sort of angry
• 43:39
  moments because I think they know what works for him but but
• 43:44
  I think this this season does play to his strengths rather
• 43:47
  well because you say. It goes the other way though.
• 43:51
  I think in 26 he has too many moments where he has to show
• 43:54
  well, you know, why don't you forget the survey light and go?
• 43:58
  Oh yeah, I. Told you to stay still in
• 44:01
  Survival or even worse, Battlefield.
• 44:04
  There will be no, you know, it's like I'll play Stop I.
• 44:07
  Think that that's the one that sticks in the mind is
• 44:10
  battlefield, isn't it? Whereas I think, I think like
• 44:13
  Ghost, like Curse of Fenrik and Survival, they kind of get you
• 44:18
  forget those moments because they're, you know, like a blip
• 44:22
  in a in what is generally a very good production.
• 44:25
  Do not make me do that speech. Because if anyway, I will do it,
• 44:29
  All right, I won't do it. I won't.
• 44:32
  Oh my God. Children, Tab, you here.
• 44:34
  What did they tell that? Yeah, yeah, I I think this is
• 44:39
  these are a brilliant creation. Tabby and Tilda.
• 44:43
  When I first watched this, these were my favorite scenes in the
• 44:45
  whole thing. Now I kind of love the whole
• 44:47
  thing, but I just love these grotesque old women.
• 44:51
  Yeah, but again, like, I mean, we often Lord Moffett for like,
• 44:56
  turning the ordinary into something scary and.
• 45:00
  I think Lord Moffett for doing that.
• 45:02
  Well, OK. Going sorry, Gord.
• 45:07
  And but Stephen Wyatt and and Carmel are doing it here because
• 45:12
  these could be old ladies that lived in your street.
• 45:16
  You know, they they they they, you know, they've been lifted
• 45:19
  out of, you know, a suburban St. and and plunked in this this
• 45:23
  weird world of of do. You not think there's something
• 45:27
  a bit sinister about them, even before we find out they're kind?
• 45:30
  Of Yeah. I mean that's I think that's the
• 45:32
  thing that you you they're very right from day, right from the
• 45:37
  first scene. There's there's a question mark.
• 45:39
  These are too good to be true. These are too, too nice, too
• 45:43
  jolly. There's got to be a a dark
• 45:45
  secret. I'm not even lying when I say
• 45:48
  this because I know everyone makes the rezzies.
• 45:50
  Leszies joke, right? But I swear to God, when I was a
• 45:55
  kid, I thought they were trying to seduce Mel, Like they were
• 45:59
  just a little bit too interested in her.
• 46:01
  I was like, what is going on? And then when they tried to
• 46:04
  murder her and eat her, I was like, oh, you got to remember
• 46:08
  I'm from Crawley, right? It's quite a Pharaoh upbringing.
• 46:11
  What do you think of Pex? Does he?
• 46:15
  The Arnold Schwarzenegger of Doctor Who.
• 46:17
  I mean, look at him. What a muscle man.
• 46:21
  Possibly miscast. I don't.
• 46:23
  Know. Yeah.
• 46:24
  Wasn't what I think wasn't when when the script was wrote they
• 46:28
  they envisioned someone that was more muscular, more buff and so
• 46:33
  that that thing of them being an abject coward was was kind of
• 46:39
  funnier because they were, you know, they were.
• 46:41
  I mean why would that guy be a coward?
• 46:43
  Because he's, you know, he's built like Arnold
• 46:44
  Schwarzenegger, you know? Yeah, he looks like a coward
• 46:47
  because he's. I mean, don't get me wrong, if I
• 46:48
  had that figure, I'd be very happy.
• 46:50
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 46:51
  Me too. Me too.
• 46:52
  Yeah. But the joke it is that again, I
• 46:56
  think that's the director and the writer on different pages,
• 46:59
  like, because he said as well, all the caretakers are supposed
• 47:02
  to be foul men. Like really?
• 47:04
  Like that's all me, you know? Which makes sense, because if
• 47:09
  all of the fit you know, of age and of of, you know, physical
• 47:15
  fitness were sent off to war, why weren't these caretakers
• 47:19
  sent? Because because after them
• 47:21
  should have been drafted into the army.
• 47:23
  Surely you know I. Suppose the inferences, if
• 47:25
  they're out of shape and and ancient, that there'll be no
• 47:29
  useless in a war. But because you've got Clive
• 47:31
  Mersen in there, he's only in his 40s.
• 47:33
  And I mean, I wouldn't lose Clive Mersen.
• 47:35
  For Oh no please, he's one of my favourite things in this story,
• 47:38
  but. But it's sort of the director
• 47:41
  missing the point. Yeah, yeah, you know.
• 47:44
  Oh, this beer, right? With this weird ceremony they're
• 47:47
  doing around the totem pole. I That's one of the things I
• 47:51
  really hate about science fiction, but done really well
• 47:54
  here it it's sort of weird alien traditions and superstitions.
• 48:01
  It's stuff I look at and Star Trek and go, oh, what are they
• 48:03
  doing? You know, sort of going around
• 48:05
  bumping chests and things like that.
• 48:07
  But actually, that's just a bit spooky.
• 48:10
  Yeah. And and again it's it's it's
• 48:13
  that well building you can kind of understand that these girls
• 48:17
  like like we've said have had no upbringing.
• 48:20
  They've brought dragged themselves up that they would
• 48:23
  have these weird ceremonies, especially now that you know
• 48:27
  their numbers getting depleted because the, you know like the
• 48:30
  the yellow ones have been totally wiped out and now you
• 48:33
  know they're losing red and blue ones as well.
• 48:35
  You you know, there will be some sort of ceremony to mark their
• 48:38
  passing. I mean, I was in a, well, you
• 48:40
  know, I was a small gang of kids when I was growing up.
• 48:42
  We used to hang out outside to go.
• 48:43
  We had like a secret handshake and stuff like that.
• 48:46
  So it's stuff like that, isn't it?
• 48:47
  But it's but taken on to like a bigger scale because they're in
• 48:50
  this extreme environment, you know, where people are dying.
• 48:54
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. Oh, we finished.
• 48:59
  It ended. They went by so quick.
• 49:05
  I mean, we'll save Richard Briers and Clive Merrison for
• 49:07
  episode two. Yeah, but how did you what did
• 49:11
  you think of that as a singing set up?
• 49:14
  No, I think, I think it's really good because it's it's it's
• 49:16
  brought all of the characters into play, isn't it?
• 49:18
  We've we've we've seen the Kangs, we've seen the
• 49:21
  caretakers, then the Rezis and then poor old pax is is brought
• 49:25
  into the fray as well. So we we're introduced to all of
• 49:28
  those various straters of this society.
• 49:31
  So I think it does it's it does it's job very competently I
• 49:34
  think. If the first episode of a Doctor
• 49:38
  Who story is to make you want to continue, has Paradise Towers
• 49:44
  succeeded? Yes, as as a child, Yeah, for
• 49:51
  sure it it did. I I was keen to I I think it was
• 49:55
  that mystery of like what are those, those white cleaner
• 49:59
  robots, what are they doing? Where are they taking all of
• 50:01
  those, those people. Yeah, there were.
• 50:06
  There were a lot of, like, mysteries, and I think they
• 50:09
  intrigued me as a child. I think I found it like when I
• 50:13
  first watched it, I found it quite funny because all the
• 50:16
  performances, you know, the crazy old women and Richard
• 50:18
  Bryce's stupid voice and stuff like this, it did make me laugh
• 50:22
  a lot. But because it was all in the
• 50:24
  dark and like clearly people were dying and things like that,
• 50:28
  I was a bit on edge as well. So it was a weird mixture of
• 50:32
  sort of comedy and horror. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:37
  Because because it's it's all it's kind of mushing those,
• 50:40
  those two eras together, isn't it?
• 50:42
  You've got the the, the, the the Colin Baker larger than life,
• 50:46
  Bright Colours kind of thing. And then it's clashing with the
• 50:50
  the, the darkness and that kind of dystopia that Carmel was kind
• 50:54
  of wanting to bring into it because like every time they go
• 50:57
  into the future it's it's it's horrific.
• 50:59
  I don't. I don't know if I would want to
• 51:00
  live in there. His version of the future.
• 51:03
  That's funny. Wouldn't want to live in this
• 51:05
  high rise with horrible monsters in the pool and bloody elevators
• 51:11
  that can murder you at any minute.
• 51:13
  Oh, that's such a great idea though.
• 51:15
  The idea of being trapped in a building with all these horrors
• 51:17
  inside and. And I should imagine, I mean
• 51:20
  obviously it's hard for me to put my myself in that situation
• 51:23
  because I grew up in rural West Country Devon.
• 51:27
  But like there were, there were people watching this that lived
• 51:31
  in those high rises in Peckham and Croydon and and so forth.
• 51:37
  And they could probably have related to that that you know
• 51:39
  the graffiti everywhere and lifts that don't work properly
• 51:43
  and you know so. So it's it's, I think it's quite
• 51:46
  good from that point of view. It's sort of.
• 51:48
  You've just enticed me with something, you know.
• 51:50
  Oh yeah, Wow. They could, because they were
• 51:54
  doing all location stories and then they were doing all studio
• 51:57
  stories. Obviously this is an old studio
• 51:59
  story and it kind of has to be because it's custom based for
• 52:02
  all the weird stuff that's going on in this building.
• 52:05
  But if they had shot this in a high rise on the film, that is
• 52:11
  enticing. Wouldn't.
• 52:14
  It it would have been great. It would have been great.
• 52:16
  Well, I'm going to throw out because I did put something out
• 52:19
  to Twitter to see if anybody would like to ask any questions
• 52:23
  given this was your first commentary and I have had some
• 52:25
  in. So I'm going to just ask you one
• 52:28
  for episode one. And it's from your friend of
• 52:30
  mine, Fraser Gregory. So be warned, Snog Marry turned
• 52:37
  into a ghastly constipated zombie.
• 52:40
  The chief caretaker Tom Goode and rhubarb from Rhubarb and
• 52:45
  custard. I don't know what that means.
• 52:49
  Have I got to pick one to marry once?
• 52:51
  Yeah, Snoke, Marry turn into a ghastly constipated zombie.
• 52:56
  Well, don't worry about this. I'm not sure he's not casting
• 52:58
  aspersions on your sexual No, no, no, no, no.
• 53:00
  It's just a game. Well, I was not a massive fan of
• 53:06
  The Good Life and I found, because I remember watching it
• 53:09
  with my mum and dad, you know, it must have probably been
• 53:11
  repeats because I think it was the 70s when it came out.
• 53:14
  But I remember thinking he was an insufferable prat.
• 53:18
  Tom Good, I mean. He is.
• 53:19
  He's horrible. Yeah, so I would turn him into a
• 53:23
  into a zombie. What?
• 53:26
  What? What did I have to do with?
• 53:27
  Snog or marry? OK, where's that one a choice?
• 53:39
  I mean, you may as well snug the chief caretaker.
• 53:41
  It's position of power, you know, it might give you a bit of
• 53:43
  swinging paradise tower. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:46
  You've got got to love a man in uniform as well, aren't you?
• 53:48
  What? The hell does rhubarb from
• 53:51
  rhubarb and custard look like? Oh, it's it's a, it's a, it's a
• 53:55
  it was like a a cartoon, wasn't it?
• 53:58
  But it was it was a really scruffy cartoon.
• 54:02
  I'm so sorry, but you've just married it.
• 54:04
  Yeah, no, I I I like rhubarb and custard when I was a kid, so
• 54:09
  yeah. It's a typical highbrow question
• 54:11
  we've come to expect from Fraser, Greg Ray.
• 54:14
  That was. It's a brilliant question,
• 54:16
  though, isn't. It he is a genius, don't tell
• 54:19
  him. Yeah, yeah, I I govern that from
• 54:22
  from hearing him on, you know the the Ham fam kind of
• 54:25
  podcasts. Yeah, that's.
• 54:28
  But don't tell him. OK, OK, even though this is
• 54:31
  going out well, that was a delightful episode one.
• 54:34
  Would you care to hold my hand as we head into Episode 2 and
• 54:38
  see what ghastly creators will face?
• 54:41
  Sure, definitely. Let's do it.