Latest / Honey Badger Radio / #Project2025, Transhumanism and the problem with the MRM with Natty | Fireside Chat 247

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#Project2025, Transhumanism and the problem with the MRM with Natty | Fireside Chat 247 · Honey Badger Radio

• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, oh, Hello, let's begin.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Indeed, hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: name is Brian and this is the Fireside Chat and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: today I am I have the pleasure of the company
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of Natty, who used to appear on our show a lot,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: and we were at ICMI together and you know, went
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: to various events and such. But you know, in the
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: last little while, she's been moving away from the Men's
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Movement and some of the stuff that we do, and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: this has resulted in a little bit of like back
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: and forth on on social media and such. So we've
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: been trying to do this for a bit, I think, Alisa,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I've been I've been saying we should to basically like
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: get a handle on what is going on. And first
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: of all, I wanted to catch up a little bit.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the show.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Natty.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: How are you hi, How are you doing?
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I'm good?
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, yeah? What what?
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: What?
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: What's been going on today? Just you know, just getting
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: stuck in with the kids and doing what I don't
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: want to do. Ironically, not been on social media a
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: tour today, really, no anything like once.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I think we're gonna need a little bit of backstory
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: for people who don't know like what you know, like
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I guess where you are in your life and what's changed,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: because you know, when we're doing this content and we're
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: all kind of like in our respective little circles, time
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't move the same for everybody, and I think that
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: what's probably most useful for us to have like a
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: grounding point from which we can launch. So what has
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: happened with you, like in terms of like where, how
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you moved away from whatever positions or whatever's changed, And
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: we just want to get an understanding of like what
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: and why.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Okay, so my husband's here now, so I him to
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: do me. So he's off screen, but he says, say, hey,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: he might, he might, he might come on screen. It's
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: not he doesn't.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: If he doesn't, it's okay, I don't have I'm alone
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: here too, So I mean, Lindsay's in the other room
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: with the dog.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: We just thought it would be interesting for him to
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: be here and to speak and just to kind of
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: like because in the past, when I've done stuff online,
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: it's you know, it's just been me, and that my
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: husband's never been involved in any of this, but he's
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: been around the whole time. Yeah, clearly has he clearly
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: has a perspective on things right and and insight and stuff.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: All right, So when did I move away from the
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: m R M interesting to trying to think when how to?
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: How to?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, your your Twitter is still Ladies for Philip
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Davies a set. I mean, I guess you kid PD. Yeah, yeah,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Ladies for PD. And I don't know was it like
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: around because you were at ic my twenty nineteen and
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: then we had COVID and we didn't really see each
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: other for year. I mean, we haven't seen each other
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: since really, So is there is there a something around
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: around that time? Because I know that COVID was like
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a paradigm shift for a lot of people.
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think I'm trying to think so basically
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: around around that time, well before that time, I was
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: trying to do this project with the Women Against Feminism
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: group on Facebook and there was me and a couple
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: of other people involved. We were trying to get a
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: kind of project going off that was going to be
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: about women who were not feminists, who were not non
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: feminist or maybe anti feminist, and it was just it
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: was supposed to be a kind of support group slash
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: fellowship or type organization that would just get women together
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: so there could be a kind of collective voice and say, hey,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: we don't necessarily we don't support all this liberal feminism stuff,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: but at the same time, we're not We're not going
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: against like feminists in a very hardcore way. Although at
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: the time I was pretty anti feminist, yeah at the time,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: but I thought that this non feminist position was far
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: more of a kind of like a positive way of
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: representing your value system. Then being said, then having an
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: identity that's based on being anti something.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, we've talked about that too, actually, but yeah,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: go on.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So now around that time, I started to see
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: some some cracks in the m r M, to be honest,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: because it's an online slash and offline movement where people
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: are trying to change one change the culture, and also
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: there's people that are trying to change things legally, so
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: there's two things going on, right, and the there seemed
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: to be some deep suspicion with the women who were
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: getting involved, right, And at first I was thinking, well, this, this,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: this is just from a few kind of mentally ill
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: probably or not maybe not. I'm not going to speculate necessarily,
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: but people who who got uh basically paranoid about this
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: gyanocentric worldview, they've internalized it quite deeply. And therefore any
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: woman that wants to get involved in the men's rights
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: movement is looked at as she is here to take
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: away from men, to manipulate us, she is narcissistic.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always there's always been. Yeah, there's always been
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a signific well, I don't know how big it is,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: but there's always been a part of the movement. Because
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I was on the Facebook page for the Honey Badger group,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it was like run by people watch us and stuff,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and there's always been like people, especially men in there,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: that are extremely suspicious of women getting involved and engaging
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: in entryism to change things. But yeah, so I'm just
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: saying I've observed that as well for a long time.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: And some times you just kind of like this is
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: going to come, you know, for me anyway, the way
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I see it is it just kind of like comes
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: with the territory.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: Like, yes, there's going to be guys like that.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: They're probably hurt, they're probably wounded in some way, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: this is like how it comes out.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: But what we're gonna say go on.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: Okay, So at the time, that's what I would have said, right,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: I would have said that this is you know, it
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: attracts certain types of people, and some of them are
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: going to go overboard, you know, especially if they are
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: insecure or fragile on their mental health, or they're just
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: really angry they got red pill rage whatever. Yeah, so
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: I thought that at the time, but actually I realized
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: that there were people that were quite deeply involved who
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: were facilitating this type of behavior, right, people that work
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: at AVFM mm hmm. Okay, So we're not talking about
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: like random trolls and men on the internet who found
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: a v FM and then go off and do their
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: own you know, crap posting.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Can I swear we we always do. I mean.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: Ship posting and trolling and and you know, when when
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: can they argue with the next feminist? You know, they
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: want to go around arguing with all the women and
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: you know we were all doing that, right, but they
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: were There were definitely guys who were dedicating their lives
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: to basically trying to call out this and anyway, so
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not going to like dwell on petty
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: drama that happened about that time. What I'm trying to
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: explain is that there were some people that worked at
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: AVFM who were facilitating this drama, who were it seemed
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: like they were like almost encouraging people to come and
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: try and attack us in this way. So it wasn't
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: just oh, you know, there's some deranged guys online who've
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: taken this as far. It was people one guy in
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: particular who works for AVFM, who is a miserable cunt
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: who put it mildly. No, that's not even mildly, that's
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: that's pretty, that's pretty on the nose, and everyone knows
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: he's like that as well. And at the time he
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: there was this, there was this feeling with the other
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: lady that was running the group with me that if
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: we didn't toe the line with the guys at AVFM,
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: we were going to get more of this behavior. Yeah okay,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: And I went and tried to sort it out. I
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: went and tried to speak to him and I said, hey,
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: why have you like had it go with this, the
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: admitting that women against feminism? What has she done to you?
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Because she was having this long drawn out discussion with
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: him about guyness, centrism or something, but then he like
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: basically said, you don't you don't get it, you don't care,
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: and then like shut the door in her face. Yeah,
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: So I went and tried to sort it out, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: then she basically spent the whole time saying to me,
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: I feel like, if we don't to the line with
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: these guys, we're going to get more of these types
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: of attacks. And it doesn't just seem that it's some
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: randos who are on Facebook groups. It seems more targeted
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: than that. And I was just like thinking the same,
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: but I didn't really have the evidence exactly. It was
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: more of a you know, a hunch or a kind
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: of like, oh, you know, like a guy who's got
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: the guy who's working out conspiracy and he's got the
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: notice board and he's like putting up this person's went step.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the more like that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: And I've always been very direct and open when I
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: think these things, so I've always I said it at
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: the time, and I was like this, this is this
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: is not good. If if the central one of the
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: most influential websites and a group of people involved in
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: it is helping to facilitate this type of behavior online,
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: then it really does seem like there's a bit more
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: going on here than just every now and then we
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: get a deranged man who is genuinely misogynist.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So out of curiosity, you said that you guys were
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: being attacked, Like how how like what could you describe that?
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Could you go into that a little bit more?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Well, there was one guy who I know in particular,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: who was going around saying, Natty is Ghingo Central and
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Nazy is you know, the Golden Uterists. She she that's
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: all she like, she's not here to help men. Blah
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah. Right, mm hmmm. That type of that
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: type of argument was being like you yes, very like
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: consistently in the way it was was just kind of like,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: you know, what, what are you? What are you guys
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: going on about? It wasn't very rational, So sorry that
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: you go away, buddy.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Well the cat might have something to add to the conversation.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: So maybe maybe anyway, listen, I I what I'm trying
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: to say is that that we we cannot just that happened, okay,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: And then that started to lead me away from from
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: being associated with the MRN, to be honest, and also
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: I started to look into religion and I started to
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: look into how we view the political spectrum and how
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: we view like reality itself in the in the West,
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: and that started to lead me into orthodoxy. I was
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: already I was already kind of in this viewpoint where
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: I was saying, you know, okay, all this kind of
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: being right wing and being left wing, this doesn't make
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: sense to me. Yeah, like having those positions and having
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: their identity. So I was starting to question a lot
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: of that. Anyway, around the same time that this that
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: that stuffered, that was the precursor to it, because it
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: just made me start to be like, okay, listen, this movement,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: if it is actually serious, why has it got people
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: that are why is it letting people who who are
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: supposedly trying to do a good thing here, you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: be it by being controversial. Why are they carrying on
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: like this or at least, why are they letting other
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: people who are work for them or associated with them
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: carry on in that way? Because it's.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, So this person that worked in it that is
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: probably still with a VFM.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: I assume that accused you, Yeah, accused you of people.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: So do you do you.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Know if anyone that it has some authority within that
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: group was notified about that, and like did they and
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: if they were, did they act on it, did they
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: approach the version talk to them? And also do you
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: know what the evidence like when they accused you of
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: being gynocentric or whatever the narrative is, do you know
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: what their evidence for that is?
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Like did they tell you? Did you ask them? They didn't?
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Did you ask for it?
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I did ask for it.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And they didn't say anything. They just said you just are.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Remember anything coming apart from insults and slurs, and you know. Yeah,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: So like Paul Elam got involved in the sense that
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: this same person, another person in who was involved in
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: this started attacking Aaron Pizzy and then Aaron Pizzy spoke
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: out about it on her Facebook and actually got involved
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: in that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this person came after Aaron Pitsy for the
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: same reasons, Like was he saying that she's also ginocentric
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: or was this something else.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: That I'm talking about who said this about up Erin
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: is not doesn't work for AVFM. They're just the random
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: guy who was associated with us at the time. But
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: what I'm trying to explain to you is that he
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: was facilitated by other people.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, no, I know, but I just want to
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: get a sense of like what the severity of what
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: they're saying is and like what you know, like they're
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: trying to get a grasp I guess on the what
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the pattern is, what the reasoning is, what it is
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: is being alleged, you know, what did so and so
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: say or do? Because I don't know about any of
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: this stuff. I like, we don't really talk to avs
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that much or or the I mean, like Paul lives
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: around here and I sometimes I see him and his partner.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: And you know, but that's it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's been months, so I'm a little I'm
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: a little out of loop as what I'm saying.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this stuff that I'm telling you now was what
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: started to get me to question my association.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: And sure, sure for sure.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So okay, then maybe we didn't know. Yeah, maybe we
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: can get away from like the little things and sort
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of get into like I assume that the real reason
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: why you moved away is something more I don't know, profound,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: like there was something fundamental about the Men's movement that
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: does not vibe with you anymore, and it has something
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to do with your shift to orthodoxy.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: Is that something to do with it. But I already
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: I was already like on your way way, Yeah, for sure,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: because I realized that there was some genuine misogyny going
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: on that I believe it does have nothing literally has
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: almost nothing to do with the issues that people claim
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: the MRM really deeply cares about, or at least the
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: the crew of people that we're talking about, you know,
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: so av FM and there and who they influence some
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: of you guys. Unfortunately not talking about you personally, Bryant,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: but you know, just there's some of the positions in
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: your in your cohort, and then there are other people
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: around as well who that there seemed to be what
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: I wanted to like, what I brought up a few
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: minutes ago was that there seemed to be this idea
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: that if we didn't go under the stewardship of somebody
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: associated with this crew of people, then we were going
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: to be attacked. And that's exactly what's happened. Now.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, if you didn't go under the stewardship of certain people,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: you're going to be attacked.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: So like you were like there was like purity testing
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: going on.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think it's I think it's a bit
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: more than that, to be honest. So I don't know
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: how much you talked to Peter Wright.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I mean occasionally, Like so, I was, I was planning
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: on I was doing a little bit of research also
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: into Christianity, because I was specifically looking into circumcision as
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: one of the primary issues that I still believe we
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: should address.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And I was looking.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I was, and I brought it up on Twitter a
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: while back where I said, you know, I read in
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the Bible that circumcision is not Christian and it's so
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and it's because it isn't a physical act. It's like
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: a circumcision of the heart, you know. And I was
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: making this point because I wanted I think that people
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: unfairly associated male generle mutilation with Christianity, and I don't
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: think it's associated with Christianity.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's associated with Judaism.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And I think it's associated with Islam, but not Christianity, right,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And I and I got the verses out and I
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: explained it and I had the resources, and Peter Wright
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: reached out to me and sent me some messages and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: asked me about, you know, some questions about orthodoxy, and
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I answered them, and then he said that he's always
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: had a soft spot for that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: But that was about the extent of my conversation.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I don't really talk to him much on Twitter, so well,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sure what you're gonna say is completely unrelated because
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: he runs gynocentrism dot com and I know that he
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: has often come into conflict. I think he got into
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a fight with Paula Wright. Uh some years back about
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: that because Paula Wright used she would say that, you
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: know that ginocentrism is overused, and even we have said
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: that on this show, that centrism is now huh.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, who's Clara?
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Clara Grays in your chat and she's been sending my
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: husband messages harassing him and accusing me of being a user.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: She's in your chat.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm looking at the chat. I don't know who
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: that is. I've never seen that person in our chapel.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Sara Gray. See her name.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Right there, I see it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So Clara has set my husband text messages
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: saying that everybody knows that I'm a narcissistic abuser and
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: if he wants to get out, blink, you know, blink
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: twice because he needs help. M hmm.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Is Clara Gray an m R.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Supposedly she's an MRA supposedly who supposedly has been visited
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: by some type of agency or is a dissident to
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: the government. Apparently, and apparently I grasped her up to them.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Oh well, the Starmer government isn't exactly looking good these days.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know who that is, and I
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: don't I don't think that.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Other MRIs do know who she is, though.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm sure, and again I'm I think maybe
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I don't. Okay, As part of Honey Badger Radio, I
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: don't think we work like directly with other MRA groups,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: so we don't know what kind of stuff goes on. Lately,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: we've been kind of operating like on the outside of
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: that orbit. So like, I see a lot of new
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: names in our chat, I don't know who they are.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I assume they followed you, probably and either patrol you
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: or to support you.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Think that because I'm kind of outside loop and I'm
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: not associated with any of these people, because we do
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: our own content, and I guess right, let.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Me let me sorry to interrupt me, let me just
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: come Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about what my
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: point of view about the MRM and feminist them and
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: like the Western culture is, let's do it. We'll do that.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: But first of all, just to clarify why I brought
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: that up, because she's in the chat now, right, Okay.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: So I made a video maybe a year ago, like
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: I said goodbye to the MRA, I wrote, I wrote
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: something about it, and then I like, I delete my
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: old Facebook account and I've moved house, and I just
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: like disappeared, yeah for a bit. And then I made
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: a video regarding some stuff about a year ago, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: I'm in a few other videos, and I just wanted
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: to get this out there because I thought, you know what,
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: holy crap. I do think some of the feminists have
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: a point, and I've learned quite a lot in the
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: last two to three years that has brought me to
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: a position where I'm I can see what they're right about. Okay,
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: it doesn't mean I agree with the ideology overall, but
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: I can see what they write about. So I made
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: this video, and then around that time I came back
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: on Twitter at some point, and Peter Wright he's always
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: been quite friendly to me, and I know that he's
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: he mentors Elizabeth. You know, Elizabeth Hobs.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Him oh yeah, sure.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: He mentors her and or a least he used to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: And then, but I know that he does seem to
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: have a bit of a habit of talking to people
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: behind the scenes because he's not a public facing guy.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Doesn't make content like that. There might be some stuff
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: online with him, but he's not that guy, right, he's
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: a writer. You know, he does seem to do that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: So I've you know, I've been friendly with him for years.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: And then when I started saying, hey, I don't, I don't.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: I don't agree with your guy in this same thesis. Overall,
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: there's some stuff in there that I agree with, but
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: overall I don't agree with it. Okay, he was he
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: seems to be fine with that, and we had a
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: chat about it, and he said to me, I don't
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: think you are Gode essentially overall, you know, I think
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: you're you know, basically saying I think you're all right,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: and I'm just like, okay, thanks, Peter, like whatever. But
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: then he said something about Lauren Suvin being a narcissist,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: and I have to say, I have never understood why
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: Paul Elam and a few other people went after Lauren
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: years ago in the way that they did. I thought
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: that it was just didn't make any sense to me.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: And so when he says something about her on Twitter
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: because she's like came started talking a bit more in
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: the last couple of last year or so again, making
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: more videos and whatever, right, because you know, she disappeared
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: for a while, I said to him, I'm really don't
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: understand why why calling her a narcist? Please explain it
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: to me, Like I'm a five year old and I
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: was genuinely wanting to hear what he had to say.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: And then he was like, well, if you don't you
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: can't see it by now, then you don't get it.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Then then I don't know what to say to you.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I've I genuinely don't get it. I
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: was like, you can say that maybe she's a bit
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: of an attention secret because she was making videos and
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: you know she knew she was attractive. Okay, whatever, Right,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: But what it goes beyond saying that someone is aware
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: of them being like gaining attention, like most people who
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: make content on YouTube and Instagram and social media. But
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: to then move to the next stage and start calling
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: someone a narcissist, is are you saying they have some
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: narcissistic traits or they have a narcissistic personality disorder. Right,
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: So that's what I was trying to point out. And
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: then I.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Got blocked by him, right, by Peter right.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, by Peter Right. And I'd already been blocked by
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Paul Elam because he blocked me on Facebook because I'd
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: said something in a comment and didn't like it. And
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: then another another time as well on Twitter, I said
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: something and then he blocked me. Right, yeah, okay, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: they don't don't like me anymore, Okay, don't agree with me.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: But after he blocked me, then Peter Wright wrote this
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: post saying, if if you see an account with former
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: mr RA saying stuff, you know that they are they're
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: now out off like the red pill or manus feel
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: mr M and they're saying stuff and they they know
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: that they are probably a trained agent, trained to hate
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: mm HM. And my friend saw this and sent it
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: to me and was like, that's about you, because I
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: know that you had like you blocked you because I
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: told her about that, She's like that that's about you.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: That's one hundred percent sounds about like it's about you.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: And I was like, why are you writing a post
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: saying that I'm a trained agent? Like, seriously, what is this?
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: What's this about? So I spoke to Elizabeth and I said, hey, Elizabeth,
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: can you ask Peter Wright because he's blocked me to
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: tell you why I've while he's written this about me?
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: And she did and he responded saying, I wasn't even
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: thinking about Natty when I wrote that, but thinking about it,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: She's exactly the kind of person who I'm thinking of
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: when I wrote it. Actually thinking about it, she probably
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: is that person. Yeah, And so Elizabeth was like, oh,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: it's not about you, and I was like, Elizabeth, I'm
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: sorry if you can't tell what manipulation is in a message,
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know what to tell you, you know, my friend?
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what would be the what would be the purpose
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: of that manipulation? Why would like?
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: What would be You tell me, Brian, I don't know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: you tell me because I I Then after around that
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: same time, there was also another lady called Charlotte. Her
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: name is or Lottie. Her name is Men's Rights. Bunny
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: and me and each other, we know we know each other.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: I used to talk to her sometimes. She she was
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: trying to get me to go on a podcast with
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: her and stuff ages ago, but I know her. We
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: chatted like we were friendly. I wouldn't say we were
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: like good friends, but we were friendly enough. And she
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: blocks me out of nowhere, clearly because you know, I'm
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: saying some stuff that's different to what I used to
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: say on Twitter, maybe right, and she blocked me out
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: now I didn't tell me, and I when I noticed that,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, that's a shame, you know, because
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: I knew that making this video and saying stuff was
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: going to get like some people go against me. And
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: I thought, Okay, I'm fine with that, right, I don't
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: that's up to them. But then she writes a post
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: saying that Natty is a fake Christian, a fake trad
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: She's probably some trained agent and I'm worried about her
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: children and her boys, and implying that I'm some type
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: of child abuser. And then around the same time, I
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: started getting anonymous bots. It seemed like they were bots,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: but anonymous accounts that had been made recently who started
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: in saying things like Natty is being taken to court
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: for child abuse. We all know that she has a
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: reputation of destroying men, destroying men's reputation implying I've made
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: false accusations against men, like saying I'm a narcissist and whatever.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: And one of them is one hundred percent Clara. And
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Clara Gray who was in the chat, and I know
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: her personally as well because she was dating someone who
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: is a friend of mine and she actually came to
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: my house with this friend and everything was fine. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: then one day when nice this whole thing was happening
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: on Twitter, she I was talking to her and I
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: said to her, do you know who these anonymous accounts are,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: because like, I've just had this feeling that she might know.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: She says, I have no idea, but whoever they are,
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: I open the pint, You're you're a stupid cow and
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: then blocked me. And then there's another account on Twitter,
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: which basically was Clara, because Clara has a very cryptic,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: weird way of talking all the time. And then she
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: also it's also told me that I'd grasped her up
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: to the authorities about something and I had no idea.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: To be honest, I was thinking, this woman's like, is
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: this woman's schizophrenic or I don't know. I really have
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: no idea what on earth is going on with this woman?
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: And then when she came to my house, my husband
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: had picked her up from the train station and that's
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: why she has his number. Yeah, and I had sent
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: her a message and tried to call her after she'd
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: blocked it, after she'd blocked me, because I was like
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: quite hurt that I'd been friendly with this woman because
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: she was afraid of my friend. Sorry, she was a
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: girlfriend of my friend. Yeah, and I've been to be
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: friendly with her and she just did this weird behavior
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: on me. And then she sends my husband to text
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: messages saying that that everybody knows that I'm an abuser
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: and that if he needs help getting out of the marriage,
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: then you know, something like we could read the text
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: message out if you want to. But anyway, listen, all
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: of this is just you're thinking, Oh, what drama. Who cares?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean like I would. Okay, look he does.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: What I'm trying to explain to you is that this
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: will happened after Peter Wright put out a tweet accused it,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: saying telling everyone that I was a trained agent Peter Wright,
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: who is supposedly what do.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: They mean by training? What do you think they mean?
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: By trained agent, like you work for the government, like
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: you're Masad. But well, I don't know.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering because like when I hear that, it could
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: be flowery language that just means that you're, you know,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: like working for the other side, but it could also
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: be something more serious. I'm just wondering, what do they believe,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: because I, like, I don't. I hear the language, and
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: it does sound So here's what I here's what I think. Okay,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: there is it does sound like drama, and I don't
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and I don't mean to be dismissed it because I
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: understand that reputation destruction can be pretty damaging to people,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and the internet is like the latest tool for doing that.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And I have also because you know, I remember you
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: got into a fight with Aaron Pitsy and she cut
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: you off. I don't know if you guys ever, like
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: you know, repaired that or whatever like built No. Yeah,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: So I mean I get it because I've also lost
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: people that I was very close to, I know, for
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a long time over you know, I don't know, like
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: political disagreements essentially, and so I understand that, but it
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: does does your husband want to come in, Oh, you're
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: moving the camera. I'm trying not to because I think
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: it's a distraction.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Oh oh oh.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, asking him to look at it, look it because
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: it's a it's another conversation going on there. So it
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: does sound like it's it's drama. And I think that
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: there's a number of people who are and I've I
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: have my own troll. I have like one person that
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: comments on every post I make on Twitter and accuses
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: me all of all kinds of stuff. And I don't
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: know who they are, you know, and it might even
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: be like either a Chinese account or like a bot
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: or something. But I just sort of move on, you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I get this all the time. So but and again
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying, you know, I'm not trying to say
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: be dismissive, you know, but I guess what I'm because
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: there are gonna be terminy on terminally online unwell people
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: in every circle of the Internet, in every possible space,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: and I've seen a lot of it, so I guess
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: that doesn't concern me very much. I'm sorry it's happening
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: to you, and I don't think it should be. I
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: think that, you know, we should just leak, like let
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: you have your beliefs, Like that's what I think, right,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: because like, I have beliefs and I'm in HBr and
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: I'm probably the only person who is, you know, as say,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: uh spiritual as I am compared to others, right, But
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't make that an issue.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: So I just sort of like move on.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I hope that you know, I can be the best
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: version of myself as possible and other people are inspired
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: by that, and that's fine. And yeah, sometimes I get
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: into I get into all kinds of arguments with Alison
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: and Mike and stuff about all.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Kinds of things. But we are I don't know, like it.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I'm less I under stand the issue, But I'm more
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: curious about what are is your viewpoints because we're getting
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: to like how you've changed on things. Is it because
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: of like the treatment you got or is it more
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: of like a conclusion you came to outside of that,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Because I don't know.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm That's what I want to know.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: I think it's both. So I believe that Peter Wright
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: knows that when he puts out certain messages like that,
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: that certain people are going to respond. The two people
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: that are talking about who was talking about who worked
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: for AVFM. They I responded and said something, and they
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: both repeated some of the same accusations against me with
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: the like degree of nastiness that's just completely unnecessary in
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: any at all. Okay, And so this is to me,
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: this is not just there are some medally ill people
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: attracted to this and there are trials on the internet. Okay,
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: there is something rotten at the heart the core of
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: the Garner centrism worldview in the first place, and it
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: really does feed into people that may have a what's
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: the right term when they are already kind of that
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: way inclined anyway or and there's also a level of
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: indoctrination regarding it. Right, So if you're taking on a
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: viewpoint that society, that patriarchy theory, for example, okay, this
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: idea that patriarchy has oppressed women for a very long time,
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: Actually the truth is the opposite. The truth is in verse. Yeah, okay,
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: if you take on.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: This, how do you define the inverse?
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: So what you're saying is that our argument is that
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: patriarchy didn't exist in the way that feminists define it.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: This is a very important distinction to make, but instead
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: that it was the reverse. So does that mean that
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: women ruled over men? Is that the position you think
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: that these guys or you know, are are making you think?
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: Many of your followers and a VFM and m R
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: the m R M definitely come to that conclusion. M
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: hm okay, I'm sorry, I can't they that's their mistake.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: I think that is on purpose because it's it leads
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: people to especially people who don't have who have psychologically split,
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: which most of us are. Yeah, but some more than others.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: They haven't integrated certain parts of themselves properly, or they
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: haven't reached a level of peace or ability to stand
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: outside of things and be more objective. Okay, it is.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: It is basically like brainwashing in my in my opinion,
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: in the sense that instead of saying, you know, reality
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: is quite complex and we probably have patriarchy and governess
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: centrism parallel to each other operating at the same time,
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: instead of something more balanced like that, it's basically coming
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: to this conclusion that all of the evil in the
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: world is like women projecting onto men and men acting
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: it out. And unfortunately, like even people like Hannah on
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: your team, that's how they sound on Twitter. I'm engaging
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: with her, and she's just like, God, centrism is female
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: narcissism and female nazism is what is what is what
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: our society is ruling under. And I'm just like what, really, I.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Don't I don't want to speak for Hannah, but she does.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: She has said that she doesn't believe ginocentrism is natural
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: and that it's like being sort of amplified by you know,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: feminism and like our our culture. Well, I think that
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: when you said that patriarchy or yeah, patriarchy and ginocentrism
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: operate in parallel, like we literally said that. Doctor Randa
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Mkhamma is a great video where he describes.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Guy.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's ginocentrism as like a smaller circle where
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: where the hearth or like the heart of a civilization
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: where the women and children are, And patriarchy is the
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: outer rim of that that protects that central part. And
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: he made that years ago, and then that's the model
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: that I operate under.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Like I don't like to use.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: The word ginocentrism because I do think it's overused and
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it quite fits everything. But instead
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I think of it like like it's like this idea
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: that we have historically, you know, men have oppressed women
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: throughout history. I don't think it's true, but I also
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: don't think the opposite is true. I think that men
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and women have for most of history cooperated and men
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: took they took on the positions of power as a
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: means to serve their society, which includes women and children.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And so like, men being in power is not because
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: it is, you know, it's not like intended to exploit.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like you're gonna get tyrants, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: and they could be male or female, and you're gonna
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: get wise kings and queens as well, and so we
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: you know, we want we want wise kings and queens
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: wise leadership, and if it happens to be male, then that,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: like that's just what it is. So I don't know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: like I don't subscribe to any of that stuff, and
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I know that there.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Are people who do trust me.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they're in our chat sometimes they're but I think
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: that they're just wrong about that, and I just let
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: them have it because I think, you know, and I'm
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: not I'm not trying to be dismissive. So maybe you
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: think that there's something deeper going on, even beyond you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: like some a bunch of guys going through red pill
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: rage or whatever.
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: Kind to say is when when you have one of
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: the most influential MRM academics or thinkers, for Peter Wright,
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: saying things like that, yeah, then surely does an indication
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: that there's something else going on. It's not just oh,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: he doesn't like nasty, Like, there's something else about this,
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: because I think I basically worked out that if, especially
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: as a woman, if you don't subscribe to basically like
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: certain talking points, then it does seem like he gets
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: involved with encouraging people to go after you. Mm hmm. Okay,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: this is what that lady was though I mentioned from
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: the Woman Against Fanism group?
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: Was her name? Wasn't Jana? Was it Jana?
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Is that because I just did a fire inside chat
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: with Johanna?
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: I just did it.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, I just did a thing with her, and she's
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: really nice.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: But yeah, she's she's trying to get the channel going again.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: So I was talking to her recently, which is quite interesting.
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: But so basically, I don't think that the guy in aessentralist,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: to be honest, is designed to how to hold any
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: real weight. I actually think that the main point of it. Really,
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: this is the conclusion I'm coming down to you now,
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: and I'm willing to be proven wrong at some point
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: if I'm wrong, But it does seem to lead people
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: down a path where women can't be trusted at all.
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: That would be their conclusion. So women have embraced this
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: horrible oppressive feminism in response to some propaganda campaign by
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: those on the left who promoted feminism. Right, this is
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: like a you know, a general argument that's made, and
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: you know, but we know the truth. We've got going
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: and centrism, and we've written about that, and you know,
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: women are they don't want ever be accountable for anything,
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: especially not as adults. They want to still be in
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: the position to be like almost childlike. And look, we
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: have been telling you about this all this time. Okay,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: and look women have just failed. They're not they're not. Look,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: they voted left, the Democrats are in blah blah blah. Yeah,
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: this is never going We're never going to succeed for anything.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Trying to reason with them and trying to tell everybody
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: this is not going to get anywhere. What's the solution. Yeah,
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: it does seem to like push people into a tunnel
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: with a very specific destination. So to me, this destination
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: is one where women are well. Basically, when I made
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: that video about a year ago, I was saying that
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: one of the reasons why feminists go on about handmade
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: to tell is because there is actually a group of
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: people in America who do actually want to take control
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: of reproduction in a way that isn't just about protecting
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: unborn children onborn babies, you know, and stopping abortion. It's
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: more insidious than that. It does seem to be more
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: about getting access to wombs and going into the next
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: stage of genetic engineering, and then the end goal would
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: be the transhumanist dream of an artificial womb. Because the
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: amount of MRAs and those in the manisphere who are
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: either enthusiastic or at least passive and have this viewpoint
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: that this end goal is in their that we that
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: we just have to get there, It's going to happen.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: What's the point in complaining about it? Why make any
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: ethical arguments against it? And this is something I did
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: discuss with Peter Wright actually and at one point sometime ago,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: and I was just like, you know, you does seem
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: to be that your ideas point towards that direction because
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: it is basically not giving anyone any hope. Yeah. Yeah,
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: everyone is saying, well, women are never going to be
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: able to be accountable because they're always going to do
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: this horrible feminism. Yeah, and so this makes me sound
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: like some kind of like conspiratorial not job to some people,
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: but looking at the trends of what's going on. So
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: just to just to circle back for a second, right,
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: and then I'll explain what my viewpoint is properly, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: I won't I won't continue sounding like just some woman
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: who's whining about a bunch of people that don't like it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: So right now, in America, you guys have got your election,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: and you've got you've got Donald Trump versus Kamala Harris,
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: and you've got projects at twenty five, which, like all
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: the liberals have been complaining about four ages. Yeah, so
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: you're aware of what that is, right.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the new boogeyman. I went through the whole
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: thing on my on a stream. Okay, so just to
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be dismissive, but look, there are
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: think tanks, hundreds of think tanks, and they all put
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: together various projects and they're on the Democrat Party, the
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Republican Party, They're all over the place. Project twenty twenty
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: five is put together by the Heritage Foundation. I went
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: through everything on there. Feminists are turning it into a
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: big scary monster. Trump has already said I don't like it.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not using it. He thinks that some of the
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: stuff on there is like beyond the pale. I think
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: so too. I don't think it's going to happen. He's
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: got his own agenda, Agenda forty seven, and now they're
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: basically making that into the big boogeyman. And it's got
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: things like I'm going to reduce funding to the Department
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: of Education, if not eliminate it outright. I don't think
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: that's possible, but he might try to do that, or
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: you know, putting abortion to the states and things like this.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: So I don't think it's that scary. But what do
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: you think, because it sounds like you're not thrilled with that.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: I mean a few years ago I probably would have
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: been like you and have been like, oh, it's not
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: that bad whatever. But unfortunately I got to know the
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: Protestant Christian right quite well in the UK Okay, and
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: I've also got to know people online. But before I
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: became Christian, I was aware of Christian fundamentalism, Right, I
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: was aware of it, but I wasn't because I'm in
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: the UK, I wasn't and I didn't grow up Christian.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: I wasn't deeply aware of what their theological positions are
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: and what type of culture they promote within their circles.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: Right now, I've literally just had a kind of like
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: intense year or two, especially this year, where I've really
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: got to know what it is that they believe. So
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: the conservative groups that have created the Project twenty twenty five,
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: spearheaded by the Heritage Foundation, right, they have a theological
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: position that if a generally speaking, because it is an
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: amalgamation of different groups, but they all tend to have
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: this in common. Yeah, especially the ones that are very fundamentalists.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: They have a position that if a woman wants to
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: be wants to be saved, Yeah, she wants to be
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: saved by Jesus, she needs to become a wife and
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: mother and she is saved through her role as a
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: help meet by being a wife and mother. Okay, Now,
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: as far as Orthodoxy is concerned, that is not that's
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: not correct. Okay, that's not correct. There are some lines
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: of scripture that they use to back that up, but
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: that's not correct at all. And what they do is
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: in their circles they have this viewpoint that if a
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: woman does anything else then be a wife and a mother,
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: then her salvation is at risk. And so what they
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: do in their communities is the girls are brought up
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: with this worldview, then they need to get married and
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: have children. That's their priority, and if they don't do that,
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: then their salvation is at risk. Yeah, that's one of
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: the fundamental things that is promoted in their circles. And
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: the other thing is because it's biblical patriarchy. Yeah, Christian
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: biblical patriarchy. Now it's not just you know, you submit
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: to your husband and your husband is trying to what
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: needs to love you like Christ lost the church, which
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: is what Ephesians five says, which is one of the
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: main parts in scripture that talks about marriage. But what
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: they do is they zone in on the wife's submission
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: and they kind of back away from what the conditions
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: are for the husband, and so they sort of pay
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: lip service to what the husband is supposed to be doing,
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: but they really zone in on a hyper focus on
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: what the women's conditions are, right, and some of the
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: churches are like that in those groups under the Heritage
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: Foundational If you have a look at the hundreds of
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: over one hundred different organizations that support projects on twenty five,
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: they are all like varying degrees of this type of
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: theological position. And pretty much they are all now agreeing
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: with the rallying calls to repel the nineteenth amend repeal
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: the nineteenth yes, repeal, sorry at nineteenth Amendment, to remove
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: women's votes right, and then they want household voting. And
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: you know, some years ago, I am I somewhat embraced
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: this position temporarily. I was like, oh, I can see
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: what the argument is about this, And you know, I
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: thought that it was interesting because I remember when Janet
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Lansbury was talking about that on her blog years to Go,
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: and I had no idea at the time that this
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: position came from fundamentalist Christians. It wasn't just her being
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: a bit of a reactionary online. It actually kind comes
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: from them. Right. So, after the Civil Rights movement and
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: then you have the Christian right, yeah, getting a little
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: bit upset with all what's gone on with the civil
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: rights movement. Yeah, and so they started to become more
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: politically active in a way that they hadn't been in
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: the past. Then you have people like Rush Limbaugh and
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: all that. I'm sure you know more about this than me.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: Sin's You're American, right, But since the seventies and eighties,
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: the kind of like fundamentalism started to just become more
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: and more isolated, and certain books and certain influences became
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: more you know, reactionary to the culture. Yeah. They have
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: been working on their Christian nationalism project ever since then. Yeah.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: So what I'm trying to say is that just because
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: liberals are complaining about it doesn't mean that it isn't
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: a threat.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: All right, well what is it? What do you think
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: is the threat? Like, what is going to happen? And
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: how many Americans do you think are going to support it?
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: And would women? Because here's the thing.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Women are the majority of the voter base, and they're
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: also more likely to go out and vote.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: So the only.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Way that women are going to lose the vote is
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: that they vote for it, and I don't think they're
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: going to do that. We often talk about, like on
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: the show, I talk about how I think universal suffrage
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: is a mistake because I think that a lot of
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: people do not vote in the interest of the society
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: or the country, but they just vote for what they want,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: especially if they're not invested.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: So for example, it could be.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: A man or a woman, doesn't matter, but someone who
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't have any children and they're dependent on the state,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: maybe they're getting welfare or whatever. When it comes time
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: to vote, they're going to vote for the person who
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: offers the gibs. And then the people who do have
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: kids and they have a family, they're thinking about the
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: future of their children, so their vote is going to
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: be different. So I have talked about I don't think
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: there should be universal suffrage, but I'm just one guy
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: on the internet with an opinion. That's probably not going
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: to change as far as I'm concerned, and I doubt
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: it because it would take people en mass voting against
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: their interests, that is to say, women, and there's probably
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: a majority of men who would also be against it
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: because one of the things that feminist patriarchy presumes is
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: that if men have power over women, they would abuse
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: them with it. And I think that most men love women.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I would never do that, despite what their religious beliefs.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Are even like an atheist man probably wouldn't abuse his woman.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: That's what I think. I mean, I'm just looking at
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: reality as I see it. I mean, I I.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: Don't. One of the reasons I became an MRA was
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: because I wanted to make sure that I was telling
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: people that most men won't do that, right, most people
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: use their power. But I don't believe now that that
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: is true.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: So you think that men have the capacity to abuse
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: their power against women in a not insignificant number. I
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: wouldn't even say the majority, or would you say, would
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: you say the majority?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to say that. I would never say that,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: but I think it would be significant enough for there
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: to be perhaps an epidemic, an epidemic of what and
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: abusing their power over women. So look, let's say that
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: repeal the nineteenth did happen. Okay, this is just if
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: this has never happened before. You've never had a society
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: in the West where women couldn't vote and men could.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean I mean, yeah, I don't think that. No, No,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think that for most of history, like.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Women and most men did also did not vote.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Only people who owned property and it was like based
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: on the property right, it was like a household got
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: a vote, or or if men were willing to conscript themselves,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: like if they were conscripted into war, they could get
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: a vote in return.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: In the nineteen eighteen People's Act, that was when men,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: most men got the vote and women over said, and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: then eventually all women as well some years later. Now,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: if that happened now in America, you would have a
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: situation where all men could vote and women couldn't. Right,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: that's never, there's never, We've never had that. That's actually progressive.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: It's a progressive idea to do something like this. It's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: not old fashioned or traditional. It's actually aggressive. Sure, and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: if you combine that with the rhetoric on the rights,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: which is like feminism has contributed to or is responsible
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: for the destruction of the West, everybody hates it, okay,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: And all these groups on the right are agreeing with
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: this argument. It's not just the fundamentals Christians, it's libertarians,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: it's General Republicans, it's Alio Conservatives, whoever would describe themselves
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: as right wing. They all agree with this narrative. Yeah,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: they also all there's also seems to be this argument
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: that modern liberal women are responsible for all these problems
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: as well, not just feminism, although modern liberal women and
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: feminism comes to go together, So the scapegoating of women
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: is now just normalized. That's going on. Yeah, this is
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: something that eight years ago, seven years ago, six years ago,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: when I first started in being involved in the MRM,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: I would I would never say that this was going
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: to happen, you know, But there was somebody that wrote
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: something around I don't know. It was published in two
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: thousand and ten. It's called the Missundry Bubble Essay, and
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: it was published on a futurist blog and the authors
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: called Imran Khan or something that's a transhumanist blog. Yeah,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: that's a blog about transhumanism. And in this essay it
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: said the massagery bubble will burst in twenty twenty two.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you've ever read that essay, but
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: all of the talking points that the Manisphere and overlapping
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: with the MRM are in that essay. All of these
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: talking points about how modern liberal women are going to
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: destroy everything pretty much, you know, divorce rates, how women
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: are you know, basically all of the talk every single
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: basic bix talking about that's in the manisphere is in
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: the essay right that was published in twenty ten by
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: a transhumanist guy right, And I remember I read that
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: years ago and it said by twenty twenty two, the
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: MASSAGERI bubble will burst and then we will see an
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: extreme shift into the other direction and women basically will
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: have their rights removed from them at some point. That's
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: pretty much says well.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: I would ask this, how did we get here? Because
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: we've been doing this for ten years, trying to get
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: people to just do something about the laws, and maybe
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: some of the overreach and all of the because feminism
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: has the power. It's not us Like I still live
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: hand in mouth, you know, with my wife barely making
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: enough money to get by. And all I want is
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: for people to look at the divorce laws. What we
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: want to encourage people to, like, you know, get together
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: and get married.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: And I did.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: In my personal opinion, ideally it should be a religious marriage.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I think that the state shouldn't be involved in marriage.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I think that was a mistake from the beginning. But
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: over time, you know, our our discussions and everything that
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: we've been you know, trying to get people to see
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: and talk about has been ignored.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: And what I mean that you're quite reasonable, Brian, but
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: I don't actually understand what the rest of you, you
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: guys are trying to get people to understand and talk about,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: because to me, feminism doesn't have all the power. It
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: doesn't have all the power. So like the last thing.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, then who has the power of this? Why?
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: Why is it?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: We're at the point now where people like Andrew Tate
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: and the Whatever podcast and Fresh and Fit are the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: biggest voices for men when they're obviously a lot more
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: savage than we were. And meanwhile, Warren Ferrell, the gentlest
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: man ever, he's still trying to peddle his books and
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: nobody's listening. So like, literally the issue is if from
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: the moment a boy is born, we are not listening
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: to what they need, and birth rates are collapsing and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: no one's talking about forcing anything. But I think that
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: the the average man wants to love the average woman
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: and just get together, get married and start a family.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: And the thing is is that that is there's obstacles
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: at every step. I mean not just things with the
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: economy and stuff like that, but like people not seeing
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: the good in other people and not getting together because
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: of those reasons, and I don't like that this has
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: gone you know, like maybe too far the other way.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, well, if people people today are like, oh,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: you know Andrew Tate the worst thing ever, Oh freshmen
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: fit or whatever, like they're they're they're just dunking on women,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but those people wouldn't exist if you
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: listened to us ten years ago. They wouldn't even exist, Like,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: and the thing is, as we ignore them, the next
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: batch is gonna be worse.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: No, So this is why I disagree with you. I'm sorry, Brian,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: respect you. Okay, it's okay, respectfully. Those people have always existed.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they but there weren't. No, they've always existed, Yeah,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: but they weren't like the prominent people in the space,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: is what I'm saying.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: Like, yes, they were always people like.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: That, but like they don't they're not like with you know,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: millions of followers on social media.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: Political movement that is trying to take over America right
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: now through the GOP that consists of people like that.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, well they may.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: Pretend to be Christian, but that's why they view women.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: So what should we do about that? Because again, even
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: then I can.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: I can make that the Christian right has been there
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: all along, right and has had this viewpoint of women
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: all along, and they actually a lot of women who
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: turned to feminism grew up in those that culture in
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: America and try to escape it, and a lot of
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: them then became feminists because they were like, WHOA, I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: don't want to I don't want to be a part
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: of a culture that is going a movement that is
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: getting closer and closer to gaining power, and then once
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: it gains power, who knows what it's going to do.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: Because you know how we all go on about socialism
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: and communism on the left, trying the long March, we've
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: you've got the same thing going on on the right,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: and they do actually genuinely want to subjugate women, Like
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: it's not even a meme. I know people in my
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: real life who actually want this. In the UK, you
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: guys are influencing the UK. Okay, they have been this
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: way for twenty or more years. They're not just recently radicalized.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: It's just that now that the environment is such that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: they can start start talking more openly about what it
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: is they want. And when I finally was like came
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: around to realizing this. I was like, hang on a minute,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: there's been some feminists and liberals who've been saying this
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: all along. Probably should have taken them more seriously. That
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean that I care. I agree with everything that
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: they are about, but I'm saying that so going over
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: some of the viewpoints that I have now about how
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: we view reality in our culture, right, this is probably
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: a good moment to actually do this and not just
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: me bitching. But Okay, So this is what I've been
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: talking about on Twitter. We have this linear progressive spectrum
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: generally like you've got left, you've got right. Yeah, and
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: in America especially, that's generally viewed as individual versus collectivists. Yeah, generally,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: even though we know that there's going to be some
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: collectivism on both sides and on the left, they're also
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: going to have and the sense of the individual, but
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: it's generally represented in a polarized way. Yeah. So I
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: think this is a problem in the sense that you
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: shouldn't be, in my opinion, looking at how are we
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: going to run things, you know, politically, how do we
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: run society as Oh, collectivism is even than bad, Oh,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: individualisms even than bad, right, because we should be viewing
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: that both of them are quite important and have their
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: own characteristics and essence about them that is important to
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: us and our conception of ourselves and reality in society. Yeah.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: And then also time is not linear as far as
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: I'm concerned. Time is more circular. Yeah. So the way
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: I the way I've tried to conceive with this is
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: by saying that you put as a Christian orthodox Christian,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: you put Christ or God in the middle. Yeah, then
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: you have the individual coming out as a circle. Outside that,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: then you have the communal, which is what it's missing
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: from the political spectrum as way we conceive it, right,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: because in the Heigemian dialect, you're supposed to you're supposed
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: to reach the center. Yeah, and that's supposed to like
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: somehow balance the other two out. But that's not clearly
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: not happening anymore because everyone is very polarized, yeah, especially now.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: And I think it's because the sense of the communal
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: has been completely lost. And I think there's a reason
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: for that personally. So if we had the communal and
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: then the collective on the outside, like a concentric circle,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: saying that all three are coequal, meaning that one is
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: not more important than the other. We shouldn't be saying
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: we have to get rid of collectivism, we have to
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: get rid of the individual. It's like, no, none of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: those are more superior than the other, and we should
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: recognize that there's an order, there's a hierarchy, and that
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: they We just need to try and balance the three
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: and say that they all are important to how we
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: should run things. Be more integrated. Yeah. I mean, clearly
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: I'm sounding like an idealist here, but I'm just saying
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: that the West is built on a perspective that you know,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: we need to be like overtly rationalist, and we've got scientism,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: and that all plays into linear thinking. And then that
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: also plays into people's tendency to be fundamentalists, because it's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: not just the Christian right fundamentalists. Fundamentalism happens in all
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: of us quite often in different ways. What we go
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: to black and white thinking, we have to pick a side,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: pick a side side. Yeah, but reality is more complex
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: than now. We all know that. Yeah.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: The way the way Orthodoxy influenced me in thinking about
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: this was when I was thinking and looking at how
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: the Trinity was originally conceived. And I don't know if
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: you've looked into that, because I know you've been looking
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: into Orthodoxy. Yeah.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Well I've been going to an Orthodox church for almost
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: two years now, so.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so I don't know if you've not not
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: that part.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: But I mean, like Lindsay and I are taking our time, well,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: she's going to classes and stuff.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: But but but go ahead, okay.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: I mean I used a visual a video about this,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: but I don't have one right now. That would be
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: I'm sure people in the chat will start going, where'd
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: she being a workboard? But okay, So in the Trinity,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: right in the in the early Church after the Nisian
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: Council when they all agreed about the Trinity, right in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: the original Trinity, I'm going to do like a I'll
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: do my my look Luminati sign joking. It's a triangle. Yeah,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: top of the triangle, you have the Father, and you
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: have the Son and the Holy okay. And in the
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: in the in the Orthodox Trinity, the Son is begotten
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: of the Father and the Holy Spirit. It proceeds from
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: the Father. Okay. And then there's this argument that happens
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: because you know, a bunch of guys in Europe are
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: like we quite like the Roman Empire. Why can't we
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: use the church to recreate the Roman Empire again? Because
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: the Roman Empire has kind of fallen apart by this point. Yeah,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: and I suppose a part of that is I don't
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: know whether or not these theological arguments about dogma and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: stuff would have happened anyway. But the sort of perspective
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: is that this happened because they were trying to They
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: were motivated by power and greed rather than anything else. Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: The idea, the viewpoint is that the Roman Catholic Church
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: became what it became because they wanted to try and
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: recreate the Roman Empire, but a Christian version, and that
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: was probably the motivator, rather than actually being a true
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: believer on some of these points. But then again, I
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: don't know for sure, don't I'm not historians don't take this.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: As yeah, okay, I don't know either, but go on. Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: So, but what happens with the argument is the philioque clause,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: which is basically the argument is that the Holy Spirit
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 4: proceeds from the Father and the Son rather than just
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: the Father, which, as far as the Orthodox believe, it
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: turns the Trinity upside down. So it goes from a
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: triangle through an inverse triangle. Yeah, the Father and the
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: Son and the Holy Spirit is at the bottom, Yeah,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: which which starts to turn into basically the Holy Spirit
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: being more subordinate in the way the Trinity is conceived,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: when really the Trinity, the three persons of the Trinity
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: should be viewed as kind of coequal. They should be
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: even though the.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: Father is one in essence and undivided.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: Right, right, exactly. Yeah, So now the Holy Spirit is
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: called the life giving Spirit. Yeah. And as much as
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: the three persons in the Trinity are not male or female,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: if we are made in God's image, like it says
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: in Genesis, then God is going to have both masculine
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: and feminine attributes. Yeah.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, I would assume it transcends the very concept of
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: that anyways.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: But go on, and if you're going to say that
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: we're made in his image, it's not just the man's image,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: it's also the woman's image. Yeah. Sure. And so what
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: what seems to happen is then you have papal supremacy,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: which then puts the Roman Catholic Church through the leadership
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: of one man rather than a decentralized church with various patriarchs.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: And bishops which would rule by committee or at least
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: agree come to consensus by committee. It puts the final
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: decision through one man, and he is infallible, whereas the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: pope the pope, yeah, and then the Ortholos church they.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: Have patriarchs instead. Yeah, they're fallible, right, church fathers?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: Right? Yeah? Okay, So that is the patriarchy.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Is that the patriarchy that the feminists caught? Because the
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: thing is, we're using the same word, but I don't
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: think it has the same meaning.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: No, So this was what I'm this is what I
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: think the feminists are talking about.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: So are they talking about the Orthodox patriarchy or the.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: Poet they're talking about? They're talking about when when? So
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: think about how the Roman Catholic Church right is conceived,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: and you know there's a church qu in ten fifty four,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: and the Orthodox so developed in the Byzantine Empire, and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: they in relative isolation, even though eventually, you know, I'm
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: sure there's there's more to it than that, but they're
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: quite isolated from each other.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: Right, they get crushed by Muslims, I know that much.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: But go on, the Crusades also went to the Byzantine
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: Empire and slaughtered a bunch of Orthodox as well anyway,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: So like they are putting the leadership of the church
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: through one man, right, and they have changed the way
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: that they think about the Trinity. Now they would probably
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 4: say that that's not a big deal about the Trinity,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: but Orthodox think it's a big deal. Yeah. And so
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: what I think happens with this is it starts to
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: create a very hierarchical dominance. Hierarchy again, yeah, because the
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: Roman Empire definitely was androcentric and technocratic in its nature
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: for sure. Yeah, and then Christy changes everything. But then
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: the Roman Catholic Church does what it does, and it
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 4: seems to draw it back towards a kind of androcentric
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: technocracy again, in it just slower and we're basically living
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: at the end point of it, I think now. And
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: so the other thing I was talking to my priest
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: about was once they've made the Holy Spirit kind of
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: more subordinate, there is a kind of a bit of
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: a void going on. Maybe they don't really realize what
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: that void is, but as far as me and my
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: priest were talking about it, he agreed with me when
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: I said to him that perhaps the way that they
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: viewed the Holy Spirit made them look for something else
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: to replace, you know, what the Holy Spirit should be
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: in each proper place. Yeah, and perhaps they look towards Mary,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: the theotocus right Virgin Mary, Mother of God. And quite
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of Protestants generally speaking, have this critique about
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: the Roman Catholic Church as well, that they view Mary
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: in an almost idolatrous way, like she is.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: Well, they say that because my mom is a My
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: mother is a Protestant, and it's not just Mary, it's
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: all the icons. She thinks that she's been told that
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: that's all idol worship. So yeah, so that you know,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know that.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: They do, but there is something about Mary that they
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: a lot of Protestants don't really don't like the importance
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 4: of Mary that is put on her. It's not just
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 4: about the other saints as well well. Sure, and so
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: if if you accept that the Roman Catholic Church, where
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: they view the Trinity is kind of it's kind of
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: left a bit of a void, and then Mary is
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: sort of filling. Because I remember this other priest telling
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 4: me about how some Islamic I can't remember who it
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: was now, but they went to the West and they
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: thought that the Trinity consisted of you know, the Father,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: the Son, and Mary. They got it wrong, even though
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: it's supposed to be the Holy Spirit. Yeah, so almost
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: like they replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary. Yeah. And
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: what I'm going to say how this connects with how
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: our culture developed over hundreds of years, is that it
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: kind of puts Mary in on a bit of a
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 4: pedestal that she shouldn't be on, even though she is
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: the top saint. She deserves her veneration. She's the Mother
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: of God, like we we believe that was allpo dogs,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: but there's something a little bit off about how the
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: Roman Catholic Church's viewing her, Like it's a little bit
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: after this, I think not quite right about it. Now,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: when Peter Wright talks about marrying cults and stuff and
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: his writings about Guy and Centris him, I think that's
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: what he's picking up on, Yeah, because he's saying, you know,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: women need to come off the pedestal, men need to
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: stop being white knights. I think that is what he
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: is picking up on, something that is actually like in
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: our psyche, like you know this kind of yngi and
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: stuff where you talk about archetypes and stuff, and how
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: that has influenced our culture in the way that we
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 4: conceive of each other. So I'm making the argument that
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: we have this like Roman Catholic Church has deeply influenced
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: our culture, Yeah, and has basically been the blueprint of
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: the patriarchy. Yeah. Then you have Mary and what she
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: represents for women as this impossible, this impossible idea ideal. Yeah,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: that no woman is going to be able to meet
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: in a way that like clearly if we're trying to
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: be saints as Christians, like, who knows if any of
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: us will will make it. But the point is if
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: she is being presented as the top saint. Yeah, but
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 4: she's been presented in a slightly idolatrous manner, that is
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: something that's quite out of reach for women.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: Well what's wait, what's the what? But what's the ideal
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: for men?
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: Well, the ideal for men is still very similar to
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: I guess.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: Isn't it? Isn't it Jesus?
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of a high bar, right, Okay, Okay,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, yeah, go ahead, Yeah.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: That's true. But what I'm saying is that, ah, Jesus
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: isn't being represented as in an idolatrous way though, Mary.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Is yeah Jesus, Well, I know, I know, I'm just
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: saying as as as I think we're talking past each
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: other a little bit, because you're trying to make a
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: point about You're trying to make a point about the
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: Roman Catholic Church and how they've like positioned things slightly differently.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: And I know this is a criticism, and I know
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: I think we're getting on a bit of a you know,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: but I'm just saying that that men do have a standard,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: and it is I think that we if we care
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: about meeting that standard. Because I know a lot of
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: people who watch that are not religious, there's a part
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: of us that has to understand that we're like it's
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: going to take our entire lifetime and we're probably still
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: not going to be good enough.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: But that's okay, We're just gonna make an effend.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, absolutely. But if you also think about
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 4: how in the original Trinity, yeah, the Son and the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: Holy Spirit are next are like at the bottom, yeah, yeah,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: Holy Spirit they have that they're in that place, in
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: the right place, in the proper place, Okay, And then
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: when it turns in verse and the Holy Spirit has
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 4: to go through the Son and the Father it's it's
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: like positioning the son as the same as the father.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: So this does actually uphold men in an archetypal way
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: as the same on the same level as the Father.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: And even though Jesus was God, he was also human,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: so he was not supposed to be on the same
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: position as the father. The father's the monarch, right, Yeah,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: So what the way I've been talking about it on
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: Twitter is by saying that it created like this kind
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 4: of more rigid hierarchy. Then it then was what was
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 4: originally conceived, okay, and then the Roman Catholic Church went
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: through hundreds of years of very strict legalism, yeah, which
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: they're still recovering from now. And now who really moans
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 4: about the woke pope, but we must we can't forget that,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 4: like the Roman Catholic Church had some really horrible things
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 4: in its name, yeah when it should have Okay, it
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 4: really went that way, and then thes were like, oh
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 4: my gosh, we need to leave these people, you know,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: and then they then they split from the Roman Catholic Church.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: Right now, what's interesting is instead of going, you know,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 4: Mary's pretty important, we should still venerate her, the Protestants
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: were like, generally speaking, not not Anglicans necessarily, but everyone else,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: especially the American Baptists and the Puritans and the Calvinists
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 4: and right, they they really went hardcore against and were
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: like no, no, no, we're only about Jesus or we're
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: only about the Father. Yeah. And then some of them,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: the Pentecostals, for example, are like, oh, we're really really
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: about the Holy Spirit. So they become kind of split
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: from the Trinity in a weird way as far as
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: I'm concerned, and so like, no one's integrated anymore. Yeah.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: If you believe that the Trinity is important to our
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: spiritual development as humans, then the further we get from that,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: the more split and otomize we become, which seems to
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: be where everybody complains about now about atomization and how
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: we're we're not you know, we're not supporting each other properly.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: We don't feel connected with each other in the same
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: way anymore. Yeah. And so what I'm saying is that
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: this has This is what I think feminism was trying
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 4: to get at, at least the sincere people that ladies
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: and men who like use the work with like that
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: feminism was coming from and saying, hey, we have had
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: this patriarchy, and it has viewed women in the wrong way,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: not the correct way. Yeah, we shouldn't just because now
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 4: it has been co opted by you know, like some
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 4: some secret communists or postmodernism or whatever whatever way you
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: want to you want to put it. It doesn't mean
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: that they didn't have a point, and they might not
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: have been able to articulate it in a way that
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: makes sense to you or even to other people, especially
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: because in America, you guys are a very high, highly
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: individualistic culture. But you know capitalism, You're very capitalistic, and
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: everything's about competition. Do do more all the time, right,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 4: so you know you can kind of you're not motivated
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 4: necessarily to like slow down and take a step back
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: and go, hang on a minute, maybe these enlightened principles
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: are not doing much for us. Yeah, and maybe women
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: have actually suffered a little bit under some of this. Yeah.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 4: Now I am not saying that men haven't suffered at all, Right,
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying that there is a bit more. There's
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: something deeper going on than just political movements that are
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 4: trying to gain power. And you know, there's some there
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: are people that are trying to make sincere analysis and observations.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, now, no, that's all right. We went really like
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: over time. It's okay, No, it's fine. I know there
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: was a lot, a lot that you wanted to get
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: off your chest. I will say that as far as
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: the individualism collectivism thing, I think that where okay, so
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: where I live, because I think that there's a different
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: When you look at America through the Internet, it's like
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: looking through a prism, and I think that you're going
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: to see a certain experience that's refracted and I think
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: it's a very uh, it's a major distortion. So when
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: I use when I used to live in Chicago, in
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: the city, it was extremely chaotic, and I think that
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: there was extreme as weird as it is, there was
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: a extreme individualism and extreme collectivism clashing in the cities.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: But here in Virginia, in where I the part of
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Virginia I'm in, it's extremely libertarian, but there is a
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: strong sense of community. So community is like the you know,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: it's like the difference. It's like what just to like
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: because I know that I don't want to get exhaust
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: people that don't want to hear about the biblical stuff.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: But one of the things that I thought was most
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: appealing about Jesus Christ. That makes him different from the other,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: separates Christian from everything else. Is this idea that he
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: came to unify, so it's about unity, and I'm all
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: for that. And that's and that's like, this is what
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: put him at odds with the Jews, Like it's true
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: because they thought.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: He was chosen.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: He was like that he was going to come and
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: liberate them from Rome. And he was like, no, I
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: didn't come to do that. I came to unify. I
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: came to bring the Gentiles in and make them a
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: part of this this communion. And so I thought that
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: was really appealing to me. And I think that people
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: here they live that. And and there's I mean there's
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: there's all kinds Lutherans, Baptists.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: Et cetera. I go to the Orthodox one. It's really small.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: But the point is I think that there is a
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: very strong sense of community where I live. So I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: have a hard time seeing I'm not saying that it
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist. Obviously, when the Protestants came here, they split
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: off and they formed a bunch of little groups, and
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of them became like cults, like the Mormons
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and the Amish is even considered a cult by some.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: But the point is I think that they're you know,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: they're they're all trying to figure this out.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: Here's the challenge.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: I think that what you're saying the solution is is
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: that everybody become Orthodox.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: I think that's what you're offering.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 4: I I'm not I'm not going to say that because okay, well, yeah,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: I mean clearly I believe that, but yeah, I'm not.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: I am not trying to evangelize in this comments, right, right,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: I'm simply saying that Orthodoxy has influenced my thinking on this,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: and I can't avoid talking about it. One of the
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: one of the ways that it's influenced me is that,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: like I keep, I keep talking about this as order,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: hierarchy in fluidity, right, Okay, And there does seem to
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: be this weird fundamentalism, black and white split that happens
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: and is promoted online and on our politics that men
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 4: and women have only ever done everything to protect women
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: and men, women and children, and there's been no other
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: benefit for them at all, and they have nothing else
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 4: that they've gained from it. We know that's not true.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: Stop repeating that. I'm sorry, As an mra talking point.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 4: But that's not strictly true. Yes, they may have protected men,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 4: women and children, but we all know that men are
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: quite individualistic, right and especially now, they don't have a
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 4: fellowship and the way that they may have in the
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: past and the distant past. Perhaps right, they care about
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: their women, they care about their family. They don't care
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: about men, women and children in general. This most women are,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: Most men are just like They're passive and a lot
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 4: of macowards.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry again, I gotta say no, it's fine. I just,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: I just I know, I don't disagree. I think there's
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of cowardice. I think there's a lot of
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: weakness out there. But I got to ask again, I
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: got to pose the rhetorical question, how did we get here?
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: Why is it men.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Don't have a model to like, you know, a model
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: of masculinity that they can act in accordance with what
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: has happened to the family, what's happened?
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 4: Because it's not because of feminism alone at all. So
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 4: like for me, this is why we're talking about transhumanism.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: Is we our culture accepted the presuppositions towards transhumanism a
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: long time ago. We are now just like at the
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: point where certain and goals of it are being reached
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 4: or will be very soon. Yeah. So to me, it's
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: more like we went through the nivastrial revolution and men
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 4: were given this this carab that's like, you get to
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: go out there and work for corporations and make money
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: in capitalism, and you have to leave your family behind,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: and the the family is no longer the center of
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 4: your universe anymore. You're outside of that. Men were given
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: a temptation, a big temptation, which actually the end goal
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: of it is going to undermine the family unit and
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: the community as a whole. And because the end goal
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 4: of it is to forguild God, for men to become
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: like God. Right, Okay, And I think we all have
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 4: to kind of we don't need to shit on men
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: to admit that they are attracted to that, just like
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 4: the whole of the right wing. When I talk to them, yeah,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 4: and I ask him questions about this, they're just like, well, so,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 4: what so what so what Like I want to I
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: want to do I'm going to do this, I just
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: got to make money whatever, like taking taking away morality
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 4: from money making and profits and stuff. And just like
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 4: libertarianism this is all masculine coded. This is like, this
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 4: isn't necessarily what women promoted and pushed. Yeah, women did
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 4: not sit there and go You need to go out
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 4: there and go and contribute to making everybody a sidewalk.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: Right, So you don't think that women are asking men
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: for material comforts and men are not going out there
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: and working to get that for them, Like you don't
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: think you think that men are just deciding they're going
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: to turn the world into a machine and women just
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: have to deal with it. You don't think women are
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: saying I want the new phone, I want the new car,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: I want the new dress, I want the new clothes,
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: I want the like it's not.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: It's not like men are doing.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: Like what if a man did not have to attract
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: a woman, he would live in a cardboard box and
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: he would just like get whatever he can.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: He can probably beat himself.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: I just want a box. And if someone came to
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 4: him and said, do you want to be a cyborg?
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: Most of them would go, hell, yeah.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: Well only because it sounds cool.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: But but but I'm to do with women? Well, no,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: I think that I think that most men want they
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: just want children and a family. I think that this
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: is just what most men want, that's the default settings.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 4: You will occasionally they also want to be a cyple.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, why is that because they want to be like God? Yes,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: so what do women want? Is there nothing like that
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: for them?
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 4: So I think women trying to be like God happens
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 4: in a different way. And I'm not saying that there
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: aren't going to be any women that want to be cyebalks.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: But just if you get well, I mean if they
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: if they have the newest iPhone, they basically are a cyborg.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 4: Right sure, But when I when I say this, right, well,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: to become a cyborg for a woman, she's probably going
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: to have to not be able to reproduce.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but but women are choosing not to.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: Now they're a boarding babies insane rates, they're cutting their
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: what do you call it, They're getting the female version
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: of a vasectomy so they can't reproduce. So they're already
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: doing that, they're transitioning. I think it's I think that
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: the problem we're we're dealing with. And I got to
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: end the show. I'm sorry, but it was a good conversation.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming on. I think the thing we
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: got to deal with is that this is not a
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: gendered problem. What we're talking about ultimately is a spiritual problem.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: It's it's not something that I'm prepared to take on
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: because I don't. I'm still learning, but I don't. I
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: agree that scapegoating women endlessly is not a solution, And.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: In fact, we don't.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: We don't engage so much in just pure anti feminist
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: you know content. We just we talk mostly about like
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: the the crisis of meaning for like, well, the crisis
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: of men and women like finding each other attractive and
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: getting together, because what we're experiencing now in the conversation
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: about like all of the issues with dating and women
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: are choosing the bear, and men are blaming women for
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: this other thing, and some people are not like they're there.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: It's it's driving us apart when it shouldn't be, and
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: we're just trying to figure out, like, okay, how do
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: we get people to see each other as human again
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: and just come together.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 4: I know, I know this what you're about, Brian, but
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure that everyone that you associate with is.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean that's okay, Like they're not like
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: they don't represent me. I guess, you know, we're we're
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: just over here doing our thing.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm hideous, Like I'm just gonna I'm just gonna
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 4: say though that, Like, Okay, so I had you really
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: look into the Christian right and how their theological positions
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 4: on what women's role is and how they view women, Okay,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 4: and then realize that, like, your country is based on
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: that culture, even if liberalism took over at a certain
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: point and you've got you know, you do have an
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 4: undercurrent of that, right mm hmmm. And so you know,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: perhaps some of the stuff that feminists was saying was
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 4: aimed at a real thing that was going on. It
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 4: wasn't all just inflating the truth or revisionism at all. Right.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: And there's this very strange thing that happens when we
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 4: talk about how well, you know, women are not grateful
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: for what everything men has done for them. It's like,
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: why can't we be able to say that men have
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: been attracted to competing in the dominance hierarchy aka the patriarchy, right,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 4: And there are part there's something that tempts them within
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: that they feel they need to compete in it. Right,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 4: They're forced to some basically, but they do that not
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: necessarily all because they have moral good hearts and it's
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: just because they want to protect women to provide for them. Yeah,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 4: there's something else to it as well, and as the
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: MRA should really like stop blaming women for men making
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 4: the decision to compete in that completely. And I am
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 4: not saying that women don't have any say in this
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: or any part of this at all. I'm just explaining
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: that the talking points that you guys lean on quite
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 4: heavily is that men only did this, and it's just like, okay,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, when you ask them about
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 4: certain things that they are attracted to, like yeah, for example,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: being a slip work, they are going to go, oh, yeah,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 4: I want to do that, right, And so I don't
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 4: actually think you guys are holding men accountable fully to
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 4: be honest, I you know from that because whenever I
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 4: have this discussion with anyone, especially American men, they're just like, well,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 4: I just won't I won't do anything for women. Then yes,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 4: screw that. And it's like, maybe there's a third option.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: Maybe you could not buy into that stuff and you
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 4: could still provide for your wife if you want to.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 4: You don't need to react in a fundamentally reactionary way. Yeah,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 4: like it's it's endemic in your culture especially. I'm sorry,
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: I just that's how I that's what I think about it.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 4: I just I don't I don't think it helps us.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: To well again I would I just because yeah, we
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: gotta we gotta end the show. But all I will
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: say is this, I guess offer us a solution. And
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ask the chat because I'm going to
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: end it here.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: What do we do?
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: Like, how do we fix it? Because I think that
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: we just want to fix it? So what do we do?
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: And is are women part of the solution? I would
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: like to know that as well. So But anyway, I
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: gotta end the show, Natty, but thank you for coming on.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll have you on again and we can talk
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: some more about it. And thank you Natty's husband in
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: the background. I know I didn't see your face or
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: hear from you, but I know you're there. He didn't
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: say anything. Did you want to say something?
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: You want to say something?
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, Well anyway, let us know
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: what you guys think about this in the comments. I'm
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: gonna go into the Patron show now and hang out
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: with the Patrons. So If you guys liked this video,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: please hit like subscribe if you're not already subscribed at
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: the BELF Notifications, leave us a comment, let us know
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: what you guys think about what we discussed on the
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: show today, and please please please share this video because.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: Sharing is caring.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you Natty for coming on and making the time.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you yep, and thank you yeah, no problem, And
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: of The Fireside Chat. And we'll talk to you all
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: in the next video.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 5: Are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines. They are
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 5: talking point machines. They are impossible to deal with, especially
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 5: if you have, like especially if you have like a
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 5: couple of dudes who have good memory. On top of that, too,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 5: holy shit, you're fucked