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NOLAN WELLS BOMBSHELL: I WAS THERE ON HORN ISLAND · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bottleshell tonight and the Nolan Wells investigation. A witness says,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I was there on Horn Island. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: being with us. There's a big honking mark, subcutaneous deep
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: reddening tissue on his occipital. If I hit somebody in
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the back of the head, it'd be right there.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: There was no indication that there was any kind of
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: contusions on the hand, the arm, no kind of defensive event.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Jeff, I'm looking right now at the photo of his body.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: And it's about... The beach is flat, and I would
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: say it's about three to four feet from where there's
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: nothing but sand, no water. It looks like it's just
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: as the water is starting, like you could walk in
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: it very easily, and your ankles may not even get wet. It's,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he's not out in the water at all. He's On
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the beach and on wet sand. That's the way to
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: put it. It's wet sand. He's not out in the water,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry. What does that mean, if anything?
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: That's really abnormal. I would have a ton of questions
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: in that case. I would wonder if there's no waves,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: no strong current, why is that body up on a shore?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: How did it get there?
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: And just like when we're looking at blood evidence or
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: other forms of evidence, if something is in a certain
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: position within a scene, you have to question how.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: It got there.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: I have investigated a lot of deaths, bodies in canals, rivers, lakes,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: large bodies of water, never really near the ocean to
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: where you would expect somebody to wash up to shore.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: But in these cases, even though there's strong current, waves,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: large bodies of water, I've never really seen bodies up
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: on a shore, especially up out of the significantly to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: where they can't be identified or can't be fingerprinted. So
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: that would be a very big question that I would
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: have in this case is with the absence of waves,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: with the absence of a strong current, how in the
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: world did this 19-year-old man end up on shore out
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: of the water?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: That our friend Jeff Gentry joining us out of Fresno
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: at evidenceoverassumption.com, death investigator with me, an all-star panel. Before
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: we get to What happened on Horn Island on July
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the 4th? I must follow up on what Gentry said
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: to Johnny Hewitt joining us, who was at Horn Island
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: on the 4th. Johnny, thank you for being with us.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: You know all about the tides and the currents there
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: at Horn Island, which begs the question, why was Nolan Wells'
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: body in that position so far up on the beach?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: If he drowned, shouldn't he have been out in the water?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It was my understanding whenever they found his body, it
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't up real far on the beach.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: And, you know, out here in the Gulf and on
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: these barrier islands, the tides and the current and the
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: wave action can affect that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Depending on the time of day that they.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: found his body, whether it was high tide or low tide,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: and with the currents pushing the body where they found
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: it and the waves rolling it up to the shore,
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: the tide could absolutely affect that as to how far
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: up on the sand or on the beach that he was.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: John Hewitt, there is a lot of discussion tonight about
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: the location where Nolan Wells' body was found. He's not
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: out in the water floating. He's on shore in wet sand.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: What do you make of that?
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: If you can see where the top edge of that
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: wet sand was in the photo when he was recovered,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: you can see where the tide has let out and
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: where the wave action was still coming up to the
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: top part of that wet sand.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So they must have found him on a lower tide.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the tides and the current. I understand
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: that they are generally mild.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: They're mild in that portion of the island, but they
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: come around that west tip of the island. And they're
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: typically pretty strong there. So everything where they found him
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: that comes around from the south to the northwest corner
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: of the island kind of washes around that west tip.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And it kind of ends up there.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: If you can see the dark areas and the sand
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: on the beach, that's a lot of debris stuff, lines
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: and sand and driftwood and, you know, shells and all
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: that stuff's kind of washing up there from where it
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: washes around the corner of the island.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So if the current caught him.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: And the current was pushing him that way, there could
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: be several feet difference in the tide from whenever the
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: tide is in and when the tide goes out.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Let's see that video surveillance from an aerial viewpoint because
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: where everyone is standing around, they are standing around Nolan's body.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: You can't see the body. We're not showing that photo,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: but that is where the body is found. Okay. This
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: is from our friends at Cajun Navy. They're approaching the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: scene there.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: See, it's.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Up on the sand.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I'm really surprised that he was on the shore. I've
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: never personally investigated a drowning case before. where a person
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: just ends up on the shore, especially if there's not
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a strong current or waves. Usually in bodies of water,
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: the person will stay in pretty much the location where
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: they go underwater if it's witnessed. They don't usually move
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: around much after they have submerged or gone underwater. So
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: to me, it's very concerning that he was on the
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: shore or that his body surfaced that quickly.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to John Hewitt is Ben Dobrin,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: joining us out of Virginia Beach, emergency response diving instructor,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: police diver, emergency services diver. Ben, thank you for being
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: with us. Ben, do you agree with Gentry that the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: body is typically found where it goes in the water?
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: So drownings are interesting. If somebody truly drowns, they inhale
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: water The water fills up their lungs and then they sink.
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: And then looking at pictures of this young man, he
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: was also very muscular. Muscles are heavier than water. Muscles
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: are heavier than fat. Fat floats, but muscle sinks. So
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: if he, let's speculate here, that he inhaled water and drowned,
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: he would sink. And people that drown stay where they
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: drowned until. That's exceptionally warm water down there. It's the summertime.
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: It's the Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of America. that waters
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: between 85 and 90 degrees. In the summertime, we generally
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: say bodies have about two to three days because the
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: warm water, there is bacterial growth, and then those bacterial
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: growth give off gases, and that allows the body now
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: to float and rise to the surface. And so, yes,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: if he did drown, he would sink where he did
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: the initial drowning, but then he would rise to the
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: surface and float. And at that point, the wind, the waves,
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: the current, I'm from the mid-Atlantic. We have what's called
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: a semi-diurnal tide. Our tide shifts every six hours. We
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: have two high tides, two low tides a day. They
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: have a diurnal tide there. It's a 12-hour tidal shift.
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: And so if he came up and flowed to the surface,
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: he would have 12 hours of being pushed. And by
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: looking at those pictures of where the debris line was,
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: you can see how high the water pushes up at
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: high tide and then it recedes for the next 12 hours.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: So he had that picture right there. you know, you
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: can see that debris line is even further up than
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: where those people are standing. And so at the last
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: high tide, that's how high up the water went. And
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: then it receded for the next 12 hours. And when
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: it recedes, if he was pushed up, that's where the
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: body would deposit. And then the water would recede. And
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: that's where they found him right there, where the water receded,
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: where it left the body.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Brett Talley is joining us, co-star of The Prosecutor's Podcast,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor. Brett, thank you for being with us tonight. Brett,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of course, this will be quite the contentious subject if
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: this should go to trial. We know a grand jury
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: is being impaneled to look at the evidence. It's a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: very tricky thing because you hear Gentry, who's a death
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: investigator and has dealt with drownings, and you hear Hewitt
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: and Dobrin And their takes are entirely different about why
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Nolan's body is where it is. You, the prosecutor and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the defense attorney, have to be totally prepared for all
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: of this tidal, current, riptide, weather, sunset, sunrise, when the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: tide comes in, when the tide goes out. It's very confusing,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: but I got a problem with where his body is found.
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, Nancy. And I have a problem
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: with it too, but I think that's where your grand
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: jury comes in. A grand jury can be a very...
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: powerful investigative tool. And I'm learning everything I can know
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: about those specific times. And that day, I want to
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: know where the riptides, what the currents were, when the
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: high tide was, when the low tide was. And the
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: other thing that I want to know, I'm sure you
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: remember the Scott Peterson case when Lacey Peterson's body washed
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: up on shore. They were able to trace using the
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: information about the currents to where she would have gone
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: into the water. I would like to know, can they
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: trace it back to figure out where he may have
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: entered the water on that day?
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Brett Talley, I'll never forget it. Another thing they did
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: in the Scott Peterson prosecution, there were scent dogs. There
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: were scent dogs that could track, that did track Lacey
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Peterson from her Modesto home there on Covina all the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: way to the San Francisco Bay. They did that even
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: though she was in, many people believe, the back of
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson's boat under a tarp. Had to be cadaver dogs.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: All the way to the bay. The delay in bringing
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: scent dogs and cadaver dogs to this scene, that's a
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: huge problem because this is out in the elements. What if,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: just go with me here, Brett Talley, you're a former
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, what if the dogs were brought, and we
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: don't know about it, and a cadaver dog hit up,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: let me see that aerial, up in the center of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: the island where the currents do not go. What if
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: a cadaver dog hits up in there? Which would suggest
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that that is where he died.
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: But that changes everything. If you have that kind of information,
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: it changes everything. And that's why you can't go into
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: something like this assuming it's an accident. You have to
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: answer all these questions. No one that we know of
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: saw him go into the water. There's no eyewitness testimony.
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: How he ended up in the water is a mystery.
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: So you have to assume, at least when you begin
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: your investigation, there's more information you don't know. And the
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: other thing I would do, Nancy, this island has cell
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: phone service. I would have a tower dump of every
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: cell phone that connected from that island, and I would
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: talk to every single one of those people. I would
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: interview everyone who was on that island to see if
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: anyone could tell me the last time that he was
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: seen alive.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: You think you can send that email to the prosecutor?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Tower dump. We've seen it done in so many cases.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is one of the reasons Brian Koberger
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: was nailed. Because of his cell phone. Because of his
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: GPS nav. I mean, you preaching to the choir right now.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I'm singing the same verse as you. tower dump that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: would show me every phone that was on in that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: area at that time at that specific time it doesn't
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: have to be from 8 a.m in the morning it
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: could be from 3 p.m till 10 p.m i mean
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of the boats were leaving so i would
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: have a very narrowed pool of cell phones right I
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: don't need everybody that saw him there that day. I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: need to see who saw him last, who was there
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: at the very end. Okay, also joining me, in addition
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: to a former federal prosecutor and star of the Prosecutor's Podcast,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Brett Talley, is Philip Dubé, veteran defense attorney joining us
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: out of the L.A. jurisdiction. Dubé, thank you for being
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: with us. Response to.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: All of the tide information. Why was he, why was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: his body at that location?
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah, for all we know, the young man could have
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: been drunk and fell asleep. And if he fell asleep
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: and the water is washing up, it may have just
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: drowned him. Remember, there's no way to predict. Hold on.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Can we just try to deal with reality? For all
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: we know, little green men from Mars could have beamed down, right?
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: That could have happened. Nobody, there's no, did I hear him?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Did he actually say maybe no one was asleep?
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's just rule that out. Okay, just come up
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: with a different story. Spin it, Dubey, spin it.
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: Remember, we saw this in Dominican Republic last year with
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: a young med student from Pittsburgh. What was her name?
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I wrote it down.
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: Suditja Konanki. She was there partying from Pittsburgh. And they
• 14:24
  Speaker 7: detained Joshua Ribe because they thought because they had gone
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: out into the water, they were seen on video together
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: that something sinister had happened. But the truth be told,
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: they both got pulled out into the water by strong
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: rip currents. The girls' remains were never found and they
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: ruled it an accidental drowning. Why can't the same be
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: true here? Why does something sinister always have to be afoot?
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: Tragedies happened that nobody ever expected.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Did they put him up? Dubé, that could be entirely true.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And nobody said it's not. But let me redirect you
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to the question you were asked about proving cases based
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: on tide and current. Did you not just hear Talley
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: state he was concerned about the location of Nolan Wells' body? So,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: What do you do with tides and currents? You've done
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it before. We've all done it in court. Explain it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: Well, what do you say? What do you do with
• 15:29
  Speaker 7: tides and currents? First of all, there is no evidence
• 15:32
  Speaker 7: that he was out in the water and washed ashore.
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: There is no evidence that he actually took a nap
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: and the water washed upon him and he drowned accidentally.
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: Right now, there's just simply insufficient evidence. There is no
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: evidence that anybody hit him, placed him on the sand
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: to let him die. So right now, everything is speculative,
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: and it's up in the air, and there's just no
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: proof of a crime.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Let me redirect the question to Brett
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Talley and get an answer on this. Brett, former federal prosecutor,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: star of the Prosecutor's Podcast. This is what would happen
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: at trial. If this ever goes to trial, the state
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: would try to prove that there was not a drowning
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: at sea and that he just washed up, that there
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was an intervening COD cause of death. or that he
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: died on the mainland, if a cadaver dog so describes,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the defense will be arguing, if this does ever go
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to trial, that this was an accidental drowning and he
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: washed ashore. How would you use tied and current information
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to prove or disprove the theories?
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: Well, you get an expert who knows this area, who
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: knows this very specific island, who's done tests on this island,
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: who can look back at scientific data from July 4th,
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: who knows what the tides were, who knows what the
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: rip currents were, who knows what the currents are. Based
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: on where he was, it may be the case, and
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: we don't know this, that's why we need the expert
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: to look at the data. If the expert can say, look,
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: based on the tides the way they were, based on
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: the rip currents, it is impossible for his body to
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: have ended up in this spot. If the expert tells
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: you that, and the expert's solid, then that means he
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: did not drown out in the water somewhere. That eliminates
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: that possibility. Now we have to figure out what else happened.
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: I mean, maybe he did fall asleep on the beach,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: but that seems unlikely, right? That's why you need this information.
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: We're not speculating. We're asking for the science to back
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: up what our theory is and to discover what actually happened.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: That night to john hewitt joining us at horn island
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: on july 4 he spoke to the young men acquaintances
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: of nolan wells on the triton boat john hewitt was
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the water clear or murky that day do you know.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: It was extremely murky that day. Uncharacteristically murky. Normally, it's
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: pretty clear this time of year. But we had a
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: lot of heavy rains before that and a lot of
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: sediment that had washed down.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: So it was pretty muddy.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: What difference does that make?
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: It makes quite a bit of difference. For visibility, for one,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: you can't even see your feet when you're standing there
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: in it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: So....
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Typically, it's like the photo that you see there. It's
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: pretty clean this top of year. We just went this
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: past weekend, and the water's clear. You can see the
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: sand on the bottom. But it was not that day.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: But what difference does that make, whether the water was
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: murky or clear? Are you saying that, I mean, I'm
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: just assuming, arguendo, you're saying if it had been murky,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: then no one would have seen Nolan Wells submerged in
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the water.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, yes, it doesn't make a difference with tides
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: or currents or any of that. It just makes a
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: difference in visibility and being able to see somebody in
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: the water.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: To Dr. Jan Gorniak, you know her well, former medical examiner,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Clark County, that is in Vegas, pathologist, founder of World
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Peace Forensic Consulting. Dr. Gorniak, thank you for being with us.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been his body if he had drowned.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: come up to the top? Wouldn't people see his body
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: floating in the water? Would they all just left a
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: body floating in the water?
• 19:32
  Speaker 8: It wouldn't have floated up right away. So there's nobody
• 19:36
  Speaker 8: there to see it float up because he was decomposed.
• 19:40
  Speaker 8: And hearing that the water was 80 degrees, he's going
• 19:42
  Speaker 8: to decompose in the water. I'm not sure why people
• 19:45
  Speaker 8: think that he decomposed outside of the water. But like
• 19:49
  Speaker 8: you're guest said, the diver, that before someone surfaces, they're
• 19:55
  Speaker 8: going to sink. And then once they start to decompose
• 19:57
  Speaker 8: and the gas is being produced by the bacteria, then
• 20:00
  Speaker 8: they come to the surface. So they're not going to
• 20:04
  Speaker 8: see it right away. If someone was drowning and there's
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: people around, you might see somebody struggling, right? But if
• 20:12
  Speaker 8: there's nobody around, nobody's going to see that. And unfortunately,
• 20:16
  Speaker 8: the body is not going to be seen until it
• 20:19
  Speaker 8: starts to decompose and, you know, comes to the surface
• 20:22
  Speaker 8: of the water.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Ben Durbin, agree or disagree?
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: I do agree. What she spoke to, you know, if
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: somebody drowns, they're going to sink and they're going to
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: stay in that spot. Even if there's some currents or tides,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: the water will wash over at that point. However, if
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: they rise up in the water column, even a little bit,
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: If they just start to, they're not going to pop
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: to the surface like a Trident submarine, but they're going
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: to rise up slowly. And if they rise up, they're
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: going to shift a little bit. And then when they
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: get to the surface, now there could be the surface current,
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: the wind and the tide are going to be pushing
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: whatever that is. And so if a drowning did occur,
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: the body would be pushed in one direction based on
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: all of those elements. And if this was what happened
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: this time, it was pushed to the shore by the tide,
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: the waves and the wind. And so that explains how
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: the body got there, especially that high up. The body
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: would be pushed to the highest point of the high
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: tide line. And then when the water receded, it would
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: be left behind.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Because we hear gentry death investigators state that the body
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: typically is found where it went into the water. And
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you can see from that aerial video that everyone is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: up on the shore around Nolan's body. That's where his
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: body is found. So, question for the experts. Back to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: John Hewitt at Horn Island on the 4th. John Hewitt,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: why were you at Horn Island on the 4th?
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Well, we go every year for the 4th of July.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: And we were all out there with family and friends.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: Then we go out to celebrate the 4th of July together. Typically,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: we leave around 3.30 in the afternoon because my wife
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: used to work night shift. Well, she was off that day,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: so we stayed. We left at 4.30. We started picking
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: up anchor. One of the young men in the photo
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: that continues to circulate, the young man in the far
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: right asked us for a ride at 4.30 and said
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: that his friends were leaving.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Could we give him a ride? And when I looked up,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I seen the boat pulling out. It was loaded with kids.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I seen them pulling out and I told him that
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: we were at capacity on my vessel.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And did he have another way in?
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: And if he didn't have a way in and we
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: would give him a ride, but if he had more
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: friends out there, then he needed to try to find
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: another ride. We didn't want to get stopped by DMR
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: for being over our limit on our boat and get a,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: get a ticket. He said that he did have more
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: friends out there that he would just catch another ride.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: So that was, We saw some of the boys leaving
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: and then we saw coming in the channel, coming around.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Fort Point into Fort Bayou.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: I fussed at some of the boys that were in
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: the water behind one of the boats.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And later, we didn't know at the time how relevant
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: But my wife, when all this started happening, my wife said, honey,
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: you know, that's the boys you fussed at in the channel.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I thought they were swimming in the channel and I
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: fussed at them about getting out of the channel. And
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: they hollered, we're putting our plug back in the boat.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: Wait a minute.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Put him up.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So you saw the Nolan acquaintances on the Triton when
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you were leaving. Is that correct?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: We saw them leaving. Well, take that back. Hold on.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: There was multiple boats. We saw the blue boat leaving
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: with all the kids on it. We saw the Triton
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: in the channel when we came in around the corner.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, I think they may have left
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: a little earlier. I'm not sure.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure of that timeline. We saw the blue
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: boat leaving. We saw the white boat in the channel.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: I fussed at the boys whenever we were coming into
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Fort Bayou Marina.
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: Mr.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Hewitt, let me understand. You're talking about two boats, a
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: white boat and a blue boat. Yes. You recognized the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: blue boat. You knew the people on the blue boat.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Was the white boat Detroit?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: You stated that a young man named Eric asked you
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for a ride. Was that on Horn Island?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Okay. You didn't take him because you were at capacity.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Did he end up on the Triton?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that question. I don't
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: know how he made it back.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: All right. What, if anything, did you observe when you
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: were at Horn Island? Tell me everything that you saw.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: We only saw the blue boat leaving when we were
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: leaving at 430. We were picking up anchor when that
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: young man asked us for a ride. He was standing
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: at the back of my boat. The blue boat pulled
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: out in front of us. So he said that was
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: his friend leaving. That's what we saw at the island.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: When we were almost back to Fort Bayou, the Triton
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: was stopped in the channel. And I fussed that three
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: of the boys were in the water. I thought they
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: were swimming in the water in the channel. And I
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: fussed at them about getting out of the channel. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: they hollered back to me, we're putting the plug back
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: in the boat.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, and explain to non-boat goers what that means.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: So apparently they pulled the plug if they had water
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: in the hull of the boat when they got the
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: boat up and moving on plane. They must have pulled
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: the plug and got the boat up and moving and
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: it'll pull.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Water out of the hull of the boat. And you
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: can leave it out.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: Until you start to slow down again because then your
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: boat will start taking on water again. So my guess
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: is that that's where they slowed down because they were
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: close to home and they jumped out to put the
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: plug back in the boat to keep from taking on
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: water again.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Could you see what the boys were doing on the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: side of the boat? Do you know that's what they
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: were doing or is that what they told you they
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: were doing?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: That's what they told me they were doing.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know if that's what they were doing, but,
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, they would have no reason to tell me
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: that if that's not what was happening.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe or disbelieve them. I'm
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: just trying to determine, can you corroborate what they were
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: doing as your eyewitness? I mean, if you can't, that's fine.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: If you can't, good. They told you they were plugging
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the boat. Is that correct?
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: But you don't know on your own what they were
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: doing outside the boat?
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: No, ma'am, because our encounter was brief. I was coming
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: in the channel and passing their vessel.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: What was the scene on Horn Island? I noticed in
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: one particular video that I would love to see, the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: boats are very close together. That concerns me because there
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: could be a fight between those boats. Somebody could be
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: held under the water between those boats. Somebody could slip
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and fall and hit their head and go underwater between
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: those boats. And I don't know that anyone would ever notice.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that way typically for the Fourth of July,
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Memorial Day, Labor Day weekends. It's pretty packed like that
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: because it's a pretty hot spot for the whole Gulf
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Coast boating community ends up out there.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of boats. And you're right. If
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: something happened between a boat, most drownings are silent.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: The potential there for somebody to hear that and go
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: unnoticed is extremely likely.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: It could have happened.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: To Ben Dobrin joining us, emergency response diver and instructor,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Ben Dobrin. We know that the second medical examiner that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: did the autopsy did not have the lungs or the throat. Lungs,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I understand, to determine if they were full of water
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and what kind of water. Throat, I do not understand
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: why that was taken. That's a question for Dr. Gorniak. But, Ben,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you just heard John Hewitt explain correctly that drowning is
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: a silent death. If his lungs are full of water
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and he did in fact drown, which is an if,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I want to figure out how he got in the water. Okay.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Was he hit? Was he struck? Was he held under?
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Did he slip and fall? Did he lose his footing?
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: What really concerns me is that red mark on the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: back of his occipital. So I got to figure out
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: what that is. I got to figure out why his
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: throat was taken out by the medical examiner. If it's
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a drowning, why do I need his throat? But explain
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to me, I mean, I'm a layperson. You're the expert.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It's not just that their lungs are full of water.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: It's how they got in the water to start with.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. And right now, this is all speculative. And so
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: there's lots of variables to play. So he's a young man.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: very athletic by his build. So he might assume that
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: he's a good swimmer. I have no idea if he
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: was a good swimmer or a bad swimmer. Until we
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: get the toxicology report back also, we don't know if
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: he had alcohol.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: In his system.
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: Yes, he was underage. But no, we were all young
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: at one point and it was July 4th weekend. I
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: don't know if he had a couple of alcoholic beverages
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: or not. So these are all things we have to
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: find out. But he was in the water. We do
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: know that at some point. So if he was trying
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: to swim, once again, pure speculation, his friends were trying
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: to leave. He said, I want to stay on the
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: island a little bit more. I'm having a good time.
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: For me, what that says is I'm a young man.
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: There is somebody there. that I want to talk to. Generally,
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: it might be a young lady that he wants to
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: speak to or a group of young ladies. So pure speculation.
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: His friends were going back to shore. He didn't want
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: to go back. He thought it was time for him
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: to talk to some other people. Maybe another boat left
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: or somebody waved to him out or he got overwhelmed.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: People don't realize how quickly you get tired swimming and
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: how far distances are different. 100 yards on dry land
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: is nothing. you can walk 100 yards and not think
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: about it. 100 yards for swimming, a lot of people can't.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: They think they know how to swim, but 100 yards,
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: if you're in a 25-yard pool, that's there and back,
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: there and back. And a lot of people who think
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: they know how to swim, if you tell them to
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: go swim 100 yards, can't do it. And so if
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: he was trying to swim even a short distance and
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: got overwhelmed and got tired, and like the other person said,
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: drowning is quiet for the most part. On movies, people
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: always are going up and they're down and they're screaming
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: and they're yelling. That doesn't happen. When people are fighting
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: for their life and they're fighting for that breath, they're
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: going to lean their head back to try to get
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: that mouth as high as possible. And once you do
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: that and water rushes in and it's all over. But
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: people overestimate their swimming abilities. Even if he was walking,
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: that's not a pool. People who don't spend a lot
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: of time in open water don't realize there's drop-offs, there's holes.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: And so if you're expecting to take a step onto
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: solid ground and you take a step onto a drop-off,
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: I have found bodies, many bodies, We're in three feet
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: of water. And then six, seven, eight, 10 feet of water.
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: I found many bodies in my career right at the
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: bottom of a drop-off. It's an easy place for people,
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: for us as divers to find bodies. But that's where
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: we find a lot of them is people, they're walking
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: along and they think it's gonna be solid ground and
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: they take a step and they go down and they gasp.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: And while they gasp, they're underwater. They breathe in that
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: one breath and that's all she wrote. And so there's
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: a lot of speculation here, but drowning is not, a
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: hard thing to do. I mean, the fact that, that
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: people don't drown, you know, is, is great. I love
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: that we're having more swimming lessons every year. I love
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: that people are being.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. Before we go off into swimming safety, Ben, you
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: said something that really got my interest in that is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: that you find many people in the spot where they drowned.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And that leads me to where Nolan's body was found
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: up on the shore. Why is his body there?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: It's just on some wet sand. Now we're talking about
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: current and tide all night long. What?
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: That's when it's a witness. It's when it's a witness drowning.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: And I have somebody say he or she went in
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: right there. And then we go out in them right there.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: If it's two days later.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: You covered that.
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: That's a whole different ballgame.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: To John Hewitt. Was the island locked down on the
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: 5th and the 6th trying to find Nolan?
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: We didn't go back out the next day. But I
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: understand that whenever... Everybody started. We got up the next
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: morning and we thought we heard that there was a
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: kid missing. And we said, oh, he'll wake up on
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: somebody's couch because I can tell you that we were
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: really close to where all those boys were. We had
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: to shut our music off on our boat. They had
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: a big party going on over there. And, um, We
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: thought that he was just going to wake up on
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: somebody's couch. He rode in with another boat.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people out there that know a
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: lot of people.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: It's not uncommon to come and go on different vessels.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So those kids all get out there from Ocean Springs, Bluxey, Gulfport.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: They all know each other. They all ride back and
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: forth with each other. So we thought maybe he was
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: on somebody else's couch. We heard that he was talking
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: to that girl, Katie. We're like, oh, well, they're going
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: to find him. Somebody's going to talk to him.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Johnny, that all these people know each other, but no
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: one thought that Nolan was being left behind. To Dr.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Jan Gorniak joining us, our now medical examiner, formerly from Vegas,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: we know that Nolan was identified by dental records. Fingerprints
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: or facial identification was not possible. There was a closed casket,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: which tells me His face could not be reconstructed. I'm
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: trying to find out why that is.
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: Well, it's known that he was decomposed. So if he
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: is that badly decomposed and not visually identified, because once
• 34:53
  Speaker 8: you start decomposing, your skin starts to slip. We don't
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: know what was underneath the water. So I heard someone
• 35:00
  Speaker 8: talking about there's crabs, there's fish, there's turtles. That could
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: be eating on the on the body and that could
• 35:06
  Speaker 8: obscure facial features. We have to have somebody positively identified
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: before we can release them to their family. And the
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: easiest way and the cheapest way would be fingerprints.
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 35:19
  Speaker 8: But someone would have to have fingerprints on file if
• 35:22
  Speaker 8: he's decomposing. And some especially someone in water. Think about
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: if you sit in the bathtub too long.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:28
  Speaker 8: Your fingers get wrinkly. In this case, when someone's in
• 35:31
  Speaker 8: the water too long and they're decomposing, you have what's
• 35:35
  Speaker 8: called the gloving. So actually the outer layer of your
• 35:38
  Speaker 8: skin actually slips off. So you don't have any prints
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: to print. The next way to identify somebody is through
• 35:46
  Speaker 8: dental records. So they had a possibility that a tentative
• 35:50
  Speaker 8: ID that that was Nolan, but to positively ID him,
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: they had to get dental records from his dentist and
• 35:56
  Speaker 8: make that comparison. So if they're identifying somebody through dental records,
• 36:01
  Speaker 8: they were definitely not visibly identifiable. And I can only
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: speculate that he wouldn't have been able to have an
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: open casket.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Dr. Gorniak, why was his throat taken during autopsy?
• 36:16
  Speaker 8: That is a normal procedure of all autopsies. All autopsies
• 36:21
  Speaker 8: are done the same way. It is a complete examination
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: of a dead body. So when we do an autopsy,
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: we are examining every organ in the body, including the
• 36:33
  Speaker 8: neck organs. So we have to look at the neck
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: organs because, and I see you showing a picture, there's
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: structures in the neck that can help us determine if
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: someone was strangled. So you have that little U-shaped bone,
• 36:46
  Speaker 8: it's called the hyoid bone, and it sits way up
• 36:49
  Speaker 8: in your neck. So if someone is strangled, that bone
• 36:52
  Speaker 8: can be broken. So we need to look at that.
• 36:55
  Speaker 8: The thyroid cartilages stick out in the back. So you
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: have your thyroid gland in the front, the thyroid cartilages
• 37:02
  Speaker 8: stick out in the back. If those are broken, that
• 37:05
  Speaker 8: too can be a sign of strangulation. An autopsy is
• 37:10
  Speaker 8: done to determine the cause of death. So we have
• 37:13
  Speaker 8: to look at everything in order to rule things out.
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: The interesting thing about the neck is.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: The last- Well, my question is, Dr. Gorniak, was why
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: was the throat removed and not just examined? His throat
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: was missing along with his lungs when his body was
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: sent for an independent autopsy.
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: It's not missing. So what I said was in all autopsies,
• 37:38
  Speaker 8: that whole structure comes out in every single autopsy that
• 37:42
  Speaker 8: we do because we cannot assess the hyoid bone or
• 37:47
  Speaker 8: the thyroid cartilage if it's still in the body. So
• 37:50
  Speaker 8: that comes out. What people don't understand is when we
• 37:54
  Speaker 8: do an autopsy, we have what we call a specimen jar.
• 37:59
  Speaker 8: So every single organ that we look at, we have
• 38:02
  Speaker 8: to save a section or a piece of that organ
• 38:06
  Speaker 8: in the specimen jar, because once we release the body,
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: once the body is released to the funeral home, We
• 38:13
  Speaker 8: can't get it back. So what if we say, I'm like,
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: oh my goodness, let me look at the heart under
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: the microscope. I can go back to that specimen jar
• 38:21
  Speaker 8: and get a piece of heart out and make a
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: slide out of that heart.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: death of Nolan Wells, please dial 228-769-3063. We remember American hero,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Officer Joey Vincent Greenville, PD, Kentucky, just 30 years old.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: shot in the line of duty after serving eight years,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: leaving behind his little girl, Brooklyn, American hero officer Joey Vincent.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.