Latest / Harder Than Life / I Married a Man 28 Years Older… Trapped in a Toxic Relationship & Here's How I Escaped w/ Mae Novak

Transcript

I Married a Man 28 Years Older… Trapped in a Toxic Relationship & Here's How I Escaped w/ Mae Novak · Harder Than Life

• 0:01
  Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved us a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on lowes.com right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that at Lowe's.
• 0:30
  Unconditional love doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. Oh. See, when you're close in it, you don't see the patterns, the emotional buildup, then there's a blow up, and then the apology. And the flowers show up, and then the I'll never do that again shows up. I remember after about eight years of living in the cycle, I can mathematically average out how often this happens. That point about 100 plus times. Security or freedom if you can only have one.
• 0:58
  Freedom, you are your own economy, you are your own luck. Change your relationship if you ask these two questions on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. Number one is,
• 1:11
  Mae Novak married a man 28 years older, lived inside luxury most people fantasize about, and discovered that provision and protection are not the same thing. She's the creator of Confessions of a Former Trophy Wife, holds a Master's of Social Work from UNC Chapel Hill, and now works as a recovery to power guide to women who look successful on the outside but feel trapped on the inside. Let's get into it.
• 1:41
  Those of you that are watching and you tune in every single week, please smash that subscribe button. We are focused on growing that for you to get bigger and better guests. I appreciate it. It means the world to me and our team breathing into you. If you're watching this on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, subscribe on that platform. Welcome back to the Harder Than Life Show.
• 2:08
  I am excited today beyond all. Every guest is fun. This one is extra special. We had dinner last night and I got to know this amazing human in depth. And we are going to, she's here to pay it forward to all you guys. And hopefully you guys enjoy. You married a man 28 years older than you and entered a life of financial provision.
• 2:29
  Most interviews you've been on, you frame this as something that happened to you, but you chose it. What were you getting out of the arrangement and how honest are you about the calculation you're going, you're making? Well, hi. That's, I love it. Right out the gate.
• 2:48
  So what women want more than anything is safety. We want to feel safe. And he made me feel safe. He came in, swooped me off my feet, provided things that were dream come true. And now I know the term is love bombing.
• 3:08
  But at the time, and when you're experiencing it, it feels like all the adrenaline and all the rush, and I felt safe. The ups and the downs and the emotional chaos and the quiet times felt familiar to me from my childhood. And so I found someone who made me feel familiar, and that made me feel safe. That familiar misery. So we went right down the negative side.
• 3:33
  Negative train real fast. I wanna pull that back for a second. Let's talk about, you started to say, he made me feel safe. So for the audience, what does feeling safe mean to you? And how do you teach that forward to your clients?
• 3:48
  So I think a lot of times we hear about safety and some people feel like protection means physical safety. And it does, but when I think about in my life how many times I've needed someone to physically protect me in a moment, it's actually like never happened. Good point, good point. Never happened. So it's about emotional safety.
• 4:06
  And when I met this person, we laughed a lot. We had a lot in common. We loved music. We loved a lot of the same things, even though we had this big age gap. A lot of people would think, well, what do y'all have in common? Classic rock.
• 4:21
  I love classic rock. He loved classic rock. And I felt safe with him because we connected on some things. And time in our life where he was having a really hard time, I was having a really hard time feeling very lost. And he offered an anchor for me. And that felt centered and safe in the beginning. Isn't safety, because I want to pay this forward in detail for the listeners and the viewers. Isn't safety just holding space and listening? Yeah.
• 4:52
  Healthy safety is, but when you are, I mean, yes, that is 100% authentic, real safety. But when one or both of the people are lacking something within them that really they should be working on themselves to fill, but you're looking for someone else to fill those holes, that safety can be something that in the end is not actually good for you.
• 5:21
  So I remember you saying this last night, it was control masked as provision. But from the outside and probably from his perspective, he was providing and you were benefiting. Where does provision actually end and leverage begin? And how do you draw that line without rewriting history in your favor? That's a really, really good question. And when provision becomes control is when provision...
• 5:51
  is used to control outcomes. So it's, if I give you this, then you do this. Or I'm gonna take that away. I'm gonna take that away from you. Or promising certain outcomes and then saying, well, you might not get it, using it as a carrot to dangle in front of somebody's face.
• 6:13
  That's when it becomes control and manipulation and it doesn't feel good. Just on a visceral level, you know when you're being provided for in order to it be used to be thrown in your face later.
• 6:28
  I don't know this gentleman from anybody, so I want to be respectful, but it sounds like narcissism to me. And that's the opposite of unconditional love, and that's what we all seek. But do you believe that love really is unconditional? No. I mean, so there's a few ways to look at it. Unconditional love doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. Oh, so good, Nate.
• 6:55
  I think that love should be conditional when it comes to your standards. I'm not going to tolerate this type of behavior. I'm not going to tolerate being spoken to in a certain way. And yes, I can love you, but that does come with certain conditions. You have to treat me with honesty, respect, loyalty, appreciation. There are deal breakers.
• 7:19
  So unlimited love and I mean, there's just a limit to what you tolerate. So the unconditional love thing is a fallacy that Hollywood sells. I think so. I agree. Of course, love comes from conditions. And, you know, I say this to my daughter all the time. I will love you no matter what. I can't love you anymore and I can't love you any less. But...
• 7:44
  Lying, cheating, stealing. There are non-negotiables. There are non-negotiables, yeah, exactly. I tell my daughter the same thing. I say there's nothing you could ever do to make me not love you, but there are behaviors that are tolerable and intolerable, acceptable and unacceptable.
• 8:05
  I'm very lucky in that she's extremely well behaved. She's got her head on straight. But yeah, there is, I will always love you. But there are certain things that for me, each one of us is allowed to say what we're willing to tolerate and what we're not. I have a very high standard. And I'm not willing to negotiate on that. And I don't have to self abandon in order to show you that I love you.
• 8:29
  I'm so proud of you. Thank you. You've grown. Because you, that's why you're here on the podcast. Because you didn't always do that. Oh, no. So people can change. And that's what the Heart of the Life podcast is all about. You just said my life. When I grew up, literally, I don't believe that my mother or stepfather or ever said they love me. So I can't say it enough to my daughter. Did your mother and father say,
• 8:59
  You with enough love? Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot. Yeah. I got a lot of love. I think my mom says she didn't put me down for the first six months of my life. So I'm a very loving, affectionate person. And so being raised, my parents got divorced and that was difficult. But I will say, aside from that, I had a really, really great childhood surrounded by great people.
• 9:19
  with a lot of opportunity. And I mean, I had a really good childhood. And so I poured into my daughter, which is why when I was with someone who didn't grow up like that, I couldn't understand why the love wasn't reciprocated and I couldn't understand the chaos. So I thought,
• 9:41
  Well, I can just extra love on this person and pour myself extra into this person in order to heal them. And eventually I self-abandoned and I had to come back from that. But I grew up in a very loving home and didn't understand the chaos that can come from somebody who maybe didn't.
• 9:59
  So I'm hearing conflicting stories because what I read is, and I'm an amateur at this, so I'm treading very polite. Because I don't want to, I'm not here to upset anybody. I need anybody. But what I just did, I just played small. I'm hearing I'm not enough on my own and I need someone to protect me.
• 10:19
  You say that didn't come from your childhood. Did it come from marriage? Where did that come from and how did you address it? And I'm not asking that to be mean. I'm asking it so the listeners can be pulled into this. No, that's a great question. So that was one of the things that I struggled with in my 20s.
• 10:36
  I thought I didn't I wasn't abused in any way, shape or form growing up. I mean, I was a middle child and that came with its own struggles. But I thought to myself, why do I feel the sense of unworthiness? Why do I feel the sense of I have to have somebody save me and protect me?
• 10:52
  and I really don't have a good answer of where it came from. I think that in society as a whole, and at least I'm like an elder millennial, so I think it's different now, especially with the way we're raising girls. Shout out to Eliza. Shout out. Yeah, exactly. That's where I got that from. I'm an elder millennial, and I think we were just raised in the soup of...
• 11:15
  You rely on a man, like grow up and marry a doctor or a lawyer, like, you know, and have and have your do your Pilates and your yoga. And that's the soft life. That's the goal when really that's just an illusion. And so.
• 11:31
  I didn't get it from my family per se, but just growing up in the South, it was this idea of just the best you could do is be nice and be pretty and don't cause too many waves and be a great sidekick, helper wife. And that's the best, that's the highest achievement. That's the best you can do. And what happens is over time, you think,
• 11:56
  I can't do this. I can't be the breadwinner. I can't make real money. I can't go up against society as a whole and win. There's just this idea of being smaller. Yeah.
• 12:12
  and kind of dumbing yourself down a little bit. Even if you grow up with a great childhood or if you grow up with a childhood where people told you you weren't good enough, it is baked in. That's why the subconscious limiting belief of I'm not enough lives in everyone. Like nobody's escaping that one. Either you work on it or you don't, but everyone has that to some degree or another. Would you say you'd be cute and kind?
• 12:35
  Yeah, just be super nice and be pretty and nice. Pretty and nice. Pretty and nice and super helpful because we like to get our validation out of how helpful we can be to people. Is that anything to do with you growing up in the South? I think it has to do with growing up in the South, growing up as a middle child, growing up thinking...
• 12:55
  My coping mechanism growing up was, okay, how can I get people to like me? Oh, I know. Be overly nice to people and they'll have no choice but to like me. And it was almost like a protection mechanism. So some people, it's let me get people to like me by being really good at sports or by being extraordinary in some area. Mine was I'm going to be extraordinarily kind, overly kind to everyone, so I will be liked.
• 13:24
  I love that. Let's go into a little deeper. You have a master's of social work from the UNC Chapel Hill. You understand the power dynamics deeply. How did somebody with clinical training and human behavior still end up in a dynamic she could have diagnosed in someone else? And what does that say about the rest of us that know the gap and still keep doing?
• 13:49
  Yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. That's the question. Okay. So I've got, I'll answer that with a question. Does a fish that's swims in the sea know what water is?
• 14:03
  I mean, that's all they've ever known. That's all they've ever known. They're in it. You don't see, when you're close in it, you don't see the patterns. And it can take a really long time to realize that you're on what I call the hamster wheel of the buildup, the emotional buildup, and the kind of thinking things are a little bit off and feeling like there might be a blow up to then there's a blow up, and then the apology, and then the I'm sorry, and then the flowers show up, and then the I'll never do that again shows up.
• 14:33
  And it becomes this cycle. I remember after about eight years of living in the cycle, seriously, seven or eight years, the light bulb goes off and I go, I might wanna start writing this down so I can mathematically average out how often this happens. And I did, and it averaged out and it was about, it had happened at that point about 100 plus times of just the cycle. And there was no getting out of the cycle until the light bulbs came on. And when the light bulbs come on,
• 15:03
  Then you start observing. And then when you start observing, then you start asking yourself, is this how I wanna be loved for the rest of my life?
• 15:13
  Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on Lowe's.com, right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that at Lowe's.
• 15:41
  Oh, those questions when they start coming. Oh, yeah. I don't envy them, but if you're sitting there listening to this, keep going because it's about to get funnier. The same analogy, the fish analogy used I heard when I was healing, and it was related to the healing part. And it said, you're so uncomfortable with the healing because a fish doesn't know how to climb a tree.
• 16:06
  Right. So you use the fish analogy and they use that and then they took it the next step further. So again, to rewind, it's a fish only knows water. That's logical in habitat. And then if you put it in a tree, that's what it feels like to heal.
• 16:22
  Yeah, you feel the contrast. And it is super uncomfortable. And then when you recognize the illusion as an illusion, it starts to dissolve because the illusion survival depended on you mistaking it for reality. And the first step in that is just naming it. Naming the illusion. Yeah. And just instead of denial and deflection and all that's just the way it is. I call life's...
• 16:50
  what did you call hamster wheel? I call it like merry-go-round. And all we go is around and around and around, and then we puke.
• 16:56
  And then we get back right on. And then you can have a major energetic puke that otherwise known as divorce or lots of things, right? Like, I mean, there's all sorts of toxic merry-go-rounds, whether it's a corporate job that is like sucking the soul out of you or a relationship or any type of dynamic you're in that you just, you feel like you can't get out and then you start to recognize the illusion and
• 17:23
  then you got to do something about it. What's going on with the male perspective? I mean, they hear it from me every single week. But what's going on with the male perspective that, why do we do this? I didn't. I told you last night I was a drunken whore. And you attract what you are. And no offense to any of my exes. Sorry if you're watching. Sorry, not sorry. Heal. But why do we do it? From the woman's...
• 17:50
  You literally are a coach in this. Do you coach men too? Mm-hmm. Yes. So if somebody comes to you like me, who is a drunken whore and literally feasted on women who didn't think they were enough, what would you say to me?
• 18:07
  So when you're attracting a woman in order to fulfill your need and your feelings of lack, if you're attracting that woman in order to be arm candy and to say, look, look at my social status because I've got this pretty girl next to me. When you're attracting someone without focusing on how you can build together and grow together,
• 18:32
  and how you can serve one another, then it's going to go bad every single time. Because women, we are, you know, we have eyes on the back of our head. We have the sixth sense. We have this extra sense about us where we can like pick up on subtle nuances in a room of 300 people. And we know how everyone's feeling. Like we have that in us. So when a man brings us into their world,
• 18:55
  we pretty quickly know when it's all about the man. And it takes a lot of emotional intelligence to know that a relationship is about giving and receiving. It's not just about how can this benefit me? And that goes for both men and women. That's not just men. I mean, women do that too.
• 19:13
  Yeah, they all thought they could change me. Yeah. I didn't play games though. I told them right off the bat, this isn't going anywhere. We're just here to have fun. But that was, like you said, the fear in me that I didn't know. If you would have told me, I wouldn't believe you anyways. I wasn't ready. Yeah. Until I was ready. Yeah. I didn't start until I was your age. So kudos on you being way ahead of me.
• 19:35
  Yeah, well. So fellas, heal, it's cool. And then you attract someone that you can actually build with. And that's what I found. I love it. So let's get into therapy. You said it failed to address the power imbalance. You were in therapy during this time. What specifically did that therapist miss or avoid? And was it therapy that failed you?
• 20:02
  or that the therapeutic frame couldn't hold the truth that staying was a choice you were making every day? So we did couples therapy several times and I did some individual therapy. And since I went to school to be a therapist, I think therapy is very beneficial. But there is a point to where
• 20:23
  if someone else is not going to change their behavior, there's only so much you can do. And I also believe that sometimes traditional therapy
• 20:33
  can become a feedback loop to where you regurgitate the same negative information and then that's mirrored back to you and validated. And sometimes it can be like quicksand, nothing against therapists at all. Like I said, I went to school to be one, but I think using a lot of different modalities of therapy is really helpful. But again, like,
• 20:55
  If you go to therapy just to hear what you want to hear or the other person is not willing to do the work and it's all a blame game, then those things aren't going to work. I used to go... I'm sorry. My exes used to go to therapy. And I'm like, sweet. And they would come back meaner and madder. And something blamed me. And I'm like, what kind of therapist are you going to? That was insane. I am not a...
• 21:24
  To me, talk therapy is, and I'm going to knock it, talk therapy is the bare minimum. I went to several therapists. The best talk therapist I went to looked at me and said, we're stuck. You're not going to change.
• 21:41
  You need to figure something else out. And he didn't fire me, but he said, what else is out there? And he said, I don't know, go research it. So I went to, next was hypnotherapy, and that unlocked me. And then I went back to him, and he's like, oh, we've made it somewhere. So it was, I would just go in there to just feel better every week.
• 22:03
  I'd dump my problems and it was somebody to listen and then I wouldn't change my behavior. Right, because it didn't actually make you feel, it was like a temporary relief of a pressure valve, but it didn't solve the underlying problems. So I say all that,
• 22:18
  To say that today, I learned this during the pandemic, that everything is available remotely. Talk therapy through BetterHelp. Hypnotherapy, you can find people. EMDR therapy, I took over the computer. These are things that unlocked me to become the man in front of you today. But smart people learn from their mistakes. Wise people learn from other people's mistakes. So don't just... I say all that to say this, fellas, and Harden Live Nation.
• 22:48
  If you're in talk therapy only, I suggest adding other modalities. It's like working out. I don't do the same workout every single time. My body gets used to it. And it wasn't until I went to the hypnotherapy
• 23:03
  that, whoa, things really, the layers started peeling. And then when I did EMDR, I almost broke the computer. And we got real deep. And then right now I'm working and I'm doing parts work and brain spotting. And that's what got me, that eight-year-old boy, just screaming and yelling at me. So this is a never-ending journey, but it's worth it.
• 23:29
  It's so worth it. Like, it's the purpose. It's why we're here. Like, if you go from, you know, 17, 18, 25 to the end of your life at your 80s and you're still doing things the same way. Say it louder. Like, what's the purpose? Just to make money? Just to go? That's existing, not living. Exactly. I want to live. This is the whole purpose of development and growth. Yeah.
• 23:54
  And I personally, I love it when I find out that there's some behavior pattern or thought pattern I've had for a long time that's been completely not serving me. I'm like, this is gold. Like I just unlocked something that's going to change the trajectory of my life. And that has truly been the story of the end of my marriage and my choice to part ways and move forward.
• 24:19
  That's the moment I decided to quit abandoning myself and putting myself last. Everything changed for me. I don't mind being wrong because being wrong is really just a gateway to living a better and happier life. I see you, girl. I'm going to ask this unprovoked. I'm not going to even frame this. Okay. Do you have any regrets? Yes.
• 24:41
  No, no, not at all. Obviously, when you have a kid and you really, really, really, really love your kid, any decision that was made that led to that kid being born, you're not going to have regrets.
• 24:53
  Ever. I am a person that is not afraid to do things that most people look at and say, what? So a 28-year age gap for me, like, yeah, it was unusual. But like, I'm just built for being outside of the box and outside of the norm. So I don't regret it. It made me really tough. It made me really strong. I learned a lot. And I really don't.
• 25:19
  That's how I thought you were going to answer. I thought you were going to say you did. Because I do. And I just think that's another Hollywood or mainstream thing. I live with no regrets. I don't know, man. I've done a lot of shit that I regret. The number one thing I'm going to tell people, now that I have a daughter who's 17, I definitely regret the way I treated a lot of women. I just disposed of them. That is not even saying that hurts my heart. Because I don't want anybody to do that to my daughter.
• 25:49
  The main massive regret is that it didn't start working on me sooner. So Heart of the Life Nation, that's what I want you to do. If you're young, 15 to 25 years old, which a lot of you are.
• 26:02
  Work on you, man. You are your best asset. So my regret is that I didn't start sooner because I really didn't. I went to therapy, talk therapy when I was 23, 24. And I did that for several years and didn't do anything. And then I really started working on myself at 43. I waited to 43. I take from at 30, I was in Thailand.
• 26:24
  And I was partying. I did the hangover too before they did the hangover. They based it off of your life. Yes, it was my life. And all my degenerate friends. Sorry, you know who you are. I was there and I'm like...
• 26:38
  this isn't my life. I was watching myself saying, yeah, you think you're so cool, you're in Thailand, you're partying with Liam Neeson and a bunch of celebrities and you're so cool. And then I would step out of my body and look at me, no you're not. And I knew, I said, my days of drinking and partying were gonna come to an end 13 years later. I wish I would've had it. My biggest regret is I didn't do halfway sooner.
• 27:05
  And I know the whole woo-woo-y thing. You weren't ready. It wouldn't have... I wish I would have done it sooner. That's my regret. Yeah. And because I would be here bigger, better, stronger, and I would be further along so I could help more people. Could you have done it sooner? You know me. I think I could do anything. You think you could have done it sooner? I believe I could fly. So, you know...
• 27:28
  Yeah, if I'm being completely honest, yes. Because as I'm sitting here in front of you working on me, grinding on me, I would have worked five times as hard to become better. What do you think you would have needed to hear or experience at that time to have done it sooner? That is an absolute great question, and I'm going to frame this to all of the listeners.
• 27:52
  I need me, 50-year-old Kelly Siegel, to go to 30-year-old Kelly Siegel and put his armor on him and say, dude, here's your two lives. Here's if you keep doing what you're doing. Here's if you do the work. You choose.
• 28:13
  And that space is regret. Yeah. I don't want that kind of regret. It took me a little longer and I did it, but I live heaven on earth now. I've created heaven on earth. Anybody would trade lives with me right now. Yeah. And that was from doing the work. So I wish...
• 28:32
  I would have known of the Ed Milets because Ed was my mentor. He didn't know it, but he was my mentor. Yeah. And I wish I would have discovered podcasting sooner and realized, holy. Because I would have told you this guy, the 50-year-old guy, is a dork at 30. I'd be like, you're a dork, dude. Yeah.
• 28:50
  Don't you find that the coolest, most interesting people as adults are the dorkiest? Like I think like getting really, really interested in something and like geeking out over a topic, that's cool. That used to be dorky. Now, I mean…
• 29:05
  Deep down, I'm such a huge dork. I've probably read the entire self-help section at Barnes & Nobles. The whole thing. I was there the other day, and there was a table with about 15 books out, like The Untethered Soul and The 10X Book and some John Gordon books. And I was like, I've read that. I've read that. The Four Agreements. I've read that. I've read that. Favorite book, by the way. Me too. I wish that was where Creating Heaven on Earth. That's how this whole start started.
• 29:33
  With that book? With that book. That book is incredible. I had a massive betrayal happen in business. And the guy left me the Four Agreements book. And he put a sticky note. And I have it to this day. The guy that betrayed you? Yes. He said, read this short little chapter. And it was about creating heaven. I think it was his way of saying, this was God's plan, man. Wow. And the funny thing about it is I took it and I was so irritated and I put it up on my bookshelf.
• 29:58
  And a year and a half later, I was reading a different book by, who's the author? Don Miguel Ruiz. Don Miguel Ruiz. I was reading a different book. I think it was Master of Self. And I'm looking at the book and I'm sitting on my porch in the middle of the pandemic. And I'm like, why does this book look familiar? Because you've had it. I go onto my bookshelf and I look and there's a sticky note still in there. And I pull it off and I'm like, and my heart's like,
• 30:26
  I'm like, I am supposed to read this book right now. Right now. And I read it. I read that chapter again about creating heaven on earth. And I went, oh, this is where I'm supposed to be. I read the four agreements every year. Yeah. And I pick up something new because I'm a new person every single year. So going back to our dork question.
• 30:47
  I would say healing and winning is boring. It's not dorky. It's boring. We finished dinner at what? 8.30? We were all in bed by 9 o'clock last night. And it's like I was just going out at 9 o'clock at 30. And I was pre-gaming. Everybody be at my house. And that camaraderie. That's what unhealed looks like. I thought I was cool. I had a million friends. A million friends.
• 31:15
  And now I have like 10. And it's so much. Isn't it nice? It's so much. It's so nice. Let's get into your coaching now. You coach women through what you call recovery to power. Walk me through the actual system, not the philosophy. When a woman comes to you performing and says, I'm fine, while financially dependent and emotionally controlled,
• 31:40
  What do you look at first? What do you challenge first? What's the sequence? Get into it. Okay. So when a woman comes to me, she's usually...
• 31:52
  around 40 so 35 45 somewhere in there because this light bulb goes off when you're 40 to where all of a sudden you really don't give a shit what people think of you and you have lived long enough to look back at your life patterns and be like wait a minute like this thing that i thought was working is not working
• 32:17
  And then you get sick of your own shit. You get sick of saying, I'm going to go to the gym on Monday. What does that sound familiar? I get it. Yeah. Sick and tired. Yeah. You get sick and tired. You really have to get sick and tired of yourself and your own patterns and
• 32:31
  And making empty promises to yourself and not doing it. Because as women, and Brene Brown said this the other day, I think it was the, you saw I posted. She said, when you're around 40, the universe looks you in the face, grabs you by your shoulders and says, get your shit together. I did not give you all of these gifts in order for you to just waste them.
• 32:55
  Like now's the time. And so those are the people that I coach. I also coach men, and it's around that time between 40 and 50, where it's just like I've been pushing and pushing and grinding and grinding and grinding. And I've been really successful, but my highs are really high and my lows are really low. And this isn't sustainable. So my program is a 12 week program, eight for some 12 for others.
• 33:23
  But it's really a process that starts out with identifying your limiting beliefs. Identifying where am I getting the self-sabotage from? How come right when I get this close to achieving what I want to achieve or having the relationship that I want, I ruin it? Mm-hmm.
• 33:47
  Like what the heck is that all about? So we get down to those beliefs and there are a few core beliefs that everybody has. Fear of failure, fear of success. That's one where people are like, why would I be afraid to succeed? And the reason is because if you are successful beyond your wildest dreams, then that means this whole time, your whole life that you've been telling yourself you couldn't succeed,
• 34:16
  That would mean that you were wrong and you were lying to yourself. And nobody wants to admit that they were wrong for 35 years about the fact that they could be successful. Fear of failure, fear of success, fear of I'm not good enough and I'm not worthy. Or the belief that these good things happen to other people and not to me. And so we identify those because everybody's got them to a degree. And you know what I don't do?
• 34:42
  I do not go back to people's childhoods and specifically pinpoint right where they got that belief from, because that's what a therapist is for. Like you said, like there's all sorts of different ways. That's what a traditional therapist or some other modality is for. There's no benefit in going back and saying, OK, this is where this came from, because guess what? You've got it now. No matter where it came from, you've got it now. And so what I do is I help people visualize
• 35:08
  their limiting belief of unworthiness. What does that look like? I mean, like, does that look like a black blob? When you think about feeling unworthy, does that, is that a... Some people think it's like a ball of knotted rope that's just like clenched up. For me personally, this is really strange, but when I think of my limiting belief of not being good enough, I envision this really weird, like, Ren and Stimpy cartoon character.
• 35:37
  That's just like crying and like tired and throwing a fit. Whatever it is, you imagine what does that limiting belief look like for you? And then this is going to sound totally like opposite of what anyone else would tell you. But then you start to make that feeling bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And you like engulf yourself in the feeling of unworthiness and you make it bigger and bigger and worse.
• 36:06
  I've never heard this before. Until you just feel the most maximum amount of unworthiness you could possibly feel. And then you know what you do? You start to make it smaller.
• 36:17
  And that displays to your subconscious that if you can make things worse, you also have the power to make it better. And so once you start shrinking the feeling, shrinking the black blob or whatever your visual is for your limiting belief, shrink it, shrink it, shrink it. You end up shrinking it down to the size of a pea and you put it in your hand.
• 36:44
  And then you watch that pee, you can either flick it or blow it, whatever you wanna do, but you watch it spin off into this distance and disappear. If you do that visual exercise three or four times, your limiting belief will have zero control over you.
• 37:04
  That is wild, never heard of that. I imagine my limiting belief is me holding onto a rope, just this, there's a wall and I'm holding onto a rope. And I have no freaking idea why. And it's just holding on and your arms so hard. Well, cause that's a physical representation of resistance. So it's the resistance that is the feeling for you. And then to keep going on that.
• 37:30
  I just, I hold it till I can feel my armor and then I just let it go. And that's like, that's exactly, so how we do the same thing in our own little way. Yes, yes. But it's really important to allow yourself to get real miserable with that feeling because then when you make it smaller, you remind yourself, I have the power to make this worse. I have the power to make this better. If I have the power to worry and imagine worst case scenario, I have the power to imagine best case scenario.
• 37:58
  beautiful I love that there's a certain point in the youth is wasted on the youth where we're not receptive you said that 40 I didn't get into this but at 40 a word God spoke to me I was in the shower just like two weeks after turning 40 and
• 38:18
  And I had an ache and a pain in my back. And God goes, you feel that? You're not a kid anymore. It's time to grow the fuck up. Word for word. That's why I liked your Brene Brown thing. Time to grow up. Yeah. And that's when I started going, hmm.
• 38:35
  Until then, before then, now, again, Kelly Siegel, 50-year-old Kelly Siegel walking in, Ed Milet walking in, grabbing me at 30 going, girl, just listen to me. Follow me. Look at my life. If you want this life, follow me. I would have done it. Yeah.
• 38:51
  I needed a mentor. Yeah. Someone, but it had to be someone like me, which Ed was like me. Yep. It had to be a tough, hard, jacked mother scratcher that just, that was what would resonate with me. It is very frustrating to,
• 39:08
  For women, because, you know, like as a parent, when you can say something to your kid a million times and it doesn't land and they roll their eyes at you, but a coach they respect says the same thing and they go, oh, oh, okay, I'm going to start doing this. It's kind of like that. Like women, a lot of women were telling you exactly over and over and over and over. But until someone that looks like you or resonates with you tells you and you don't listen, they're
• 39:37
  It's frustrating. From a man's perspective, I will tell you this, is that when you guys say, I don't feel seen and heard, we don't understand that.
• 39:49
  Like, I've had so many of my women say that to me. And literally what that means to me now, healed version of me, shut the fuck up. Just shut up and listen. It's all. And don't say a word. Don't try to fix. Don't try to solve anything.
• 40:08
  just listen. God gave you one mouth, two ears, two eyes for a reason. Use it in that order. Listen. And it's just that easy. If I could give any man any advice, it would always be just shut up. Shut up and listen. And then what else you can do? Get out your little notes section on your iPhone. And when she tell, and when you ask her,
• 40:28
  what would it mean to you to feel seen and heard? What would that look like for you? Like, tell me some like physical, tangible things that you either need to hear or that need to show up in a pretty box with a bow on top. Like, what is it that's going to make you feel seen and heard? And just write down, oh, she really loves this particular type of Girod deli chocolate, or, oh, she really likes to hear the phrase...
• 40:54
  honey, you're so smart instead of you're so beautiful. Just get to know her. Write it down, little CliffsNotes, and just throw them out there without being asked. It goes so far and it's so easy. Why don't you get the hang of it? Just dawned on me what I was doing wrong, why they didn't feel seen in her. And I just figured it out.
• 41:14
  I do this a lot. Even in the interviews, he yells at me. Cut them off. I know what they're going to say. Just, he says it all the time. He's like, stop, let them answer. So I, but I do that. I did that relationship. That, and that, that little thing, you're mid-sentence. And I go, what do you mean? Just let them finish.
• 41:34
  It is so hard to do. You got to breathe through it. That's all. When somebody's talking at you and you know exactly what they're going to say, and you're right about it. You know exactly what they're going to say. All the real estate stuff. Breathe. And then my girlfriend has ADHD, so she constantly repeats herself. And I'm like, you told me this story. And I've stopped telling her that she told me this story three times. Like...
• 41:59
  Hey, I bet I can guess what's going to happen next. Don't say that, fellas. Don't say that. Yeah, no. All right. Let's go into a woman listening right now who's financially dependent, emotionally managed and performing that fine that we talked about earlier. She can't leave because she has no money, no credit, no work. She thinks that things are going to get better. Use the framework you actually live through. What's the first concrete move she makes?
• 42:27
  This week, not the mindset shift, the move. I hear this all the time. I will do, I'm leaving when this. What do you do? What do you coach that person to do? What to do immediately? Yes. Find something that you can do to make money at in a very, very small way. Whether that is a small part-time job. There's a million ways to make a little bit of money online. You can...
• 42:57
  even like help out a family, a friend or a family, do carpool. There's all sorts of little ways to start gathering a little bit of money together. One of the things that I heard in the 90s on the Oprah Winfrey show, I think it came home at three or four o'clock and I would come home, turn on the TV, high school, middle school,
• 43:20
  And I don't remember anything from that, except there was one episode where she had a guest on. It may have even been Susie Orman, I have no idea, but I just remember the message that was, don't become one of those women that grows up that doesn't know what's in what bank account, doesn't know how to pay the bills, doesn't know how to access the funds.
• 43:42
  and you're completely shut out financially. Don't do that. Always have your own money. Always have your own ability to take care of yourself. And I heard that, but I just thought, well, that's for women with like bad husbands. That's not going to be me. That's not going to be me. It actually doesn't matter who you're married to. Just as a human being, the ability to financially provide for yourself is,
• 44:08
  is an amazing feeling. And I want all women to have that feeling and to not outsource that. So it's really not about the man, it's about like women, we like to buy things for ourselves, we like to do things for ourselves. So what I would say is right now, find a way that you can start getting more power through being able to provide for yourself. Anytime I'm
• 44:36
  call it coaching, helping, listening. And I offer simple advice like that. Get a job. Get a job that gives you something, gives you purpose, gives you meaning. And they come back with an excuse, a reason. It's a valid reason, still an excuse.
• 44:53
  And then you dispel that and then they go, again, another reason, another reason. You say, listen, get a job. Like I don't have any time. Well, okay, there's 24 hours in a day. How much time do you need? What do you do all day? I just, I cook, I clean, I take it, and they list all the things I do and it's valid. What do you say to someone who has a reason for every excuse? So excuses are just exposing your limiting beliefs. So whatever your excuse is,
• 45:23
  That is just another way of saying, I don't think I can do it. I don't think I'm worthy of doing it. What if I fail? It just gives me the tingles. I hate to think that men are out there making women feel that way. I hate to think that that's what I was doing. I hate to feel that women like you and everybody out there, my heart goes out to everybody. Yeah, it does. But I will say this.
• 45:51
  If a woman doesn't already feel that way, a man can't make her feel that way. Nobody can make you, I say this all the time, nobody can make you feel anything because I can assure you, if I had that power, I'd make you feel good. Yeah, exactly. And I would feed you with literally so much positivity, you'd believe you could fly.
• 46:10
  Exactly. I'm going to brainwashing you into thinking you're amazing and can do anything. I've tried. I'm trying. I'm trying right now with my girl. It's tough being with me because my standards are...
• 46:21
  Yeah, but you've grown into that because you've done the work. My standards are like this now. Now, I used to be someone who could be made to feel certain ways, but really it was just a reflection of how I already felt about myself. Now, there is nothing anyone can make me feel about myself because I 100% know my worth, my value, and I respect myself.
• 46:44
  So no one can make me feel anyway. And you know what happens when you turn into the person who can't be manipulated or controlled because you know your self-worth? People start kind of vibing out of your life. And that's a good thing. And it's a great thing. And that's how you do the work. That's the results of doing the work. So this is one of my favorite analogies. You got two pieces of steel. One is magnetized and one isn't, but they look identical. Why does the one that's magnetized attract metal?
• 47:13
  against the one that's not. The only difference is that the molecules and the magnetized piece of steel have been rearranged in a way that attracts magnetism. So when you say do the work, that's what you mean. You rearrange those emotions, you rearrange that energy and that frequency within yourself so you attract what it is that you want. That's the difference and that's the work. You're the third straight podcast that talked about magnetism.
• 47:38
  There's something about magnetism, Stephen, that I'm supposed to know. And I think that's, I know for a fact, that's why I got to sue that eight-year-old child and make sure he's good. Because we're going to start magnetizing the growth that we want. Yeah. And who in this world doesn't want to be magnetic? Yeah. Do the work...
• 48:01
  And you'll become magnetic. That's my promise to you. I mean, when people say, oh, that person's a magnet for money, they actually are. They are a magnet for that energy. Or this is a girl magnet or a guy magnet or, gosh, everything they touch turns to gold or everything works out for them. Yeah, because that's what their molecules and their energy and their frequency inside of them attracts.
• 48:24
  I was a magnet for drama and chaos. Oh, well. That's the easiest stuff to do. I mean, that's one way to do it. I literally thought before I started doing any work that it was just being unlucky. No. When you really understand that you are, you're creating it. You are your own economy. You are your own luck. Let's get into motherhood. You said being a mother shifted your tolerance for staying. Mm-hmm.
• 48:51
  Your daughter became the catalyst. You wouldn't be for yourself. And this resonates with me because of my daughter. Yours is a little different because you're the same sex. So you literally can feel, but they say it's the opposite sex that you need. Like my biggest thing is I needed my mother. I didn't have her. But the beauty part is I have a daughter so I can be the father that her mother didn't have. And boy, does that create a little riff, by the way.
• 49:19
  It brings up triggers for my daughter's mother, of which she wishes she had in her father. We are like this close, and she'll try to create a rift between us. And my daughter's like, yeah, that ain't happening, Mom. Tell me about the motivation to become better and heal from your daughter. Oh, okay. Yes. So when you have a child, especially having a daughter for me,
• 49:49
  And I see in her all of the things that are beautiful and loving and incredible and kind. You got to do the work to look at yourself and say, okay, what crap am I about to pass down to her?
• 50:07
  And am I going to be the one, we talked about being the one, am I going to be the one to stop the generational ideology that is being passed down? And in a lot of women that is self-esteem issues, body issues,
• 50:22
  self-worth issues. And she looked at me and I thought to myself, the buck stops with me. I'm not passing this stuff down. And so that motivated me to do the work. And she motivates me to be the most elite level, badass version of myself that I could ever be. I'm showing her
• 50:43
  how to make your own money, how to be an entrepreneur, how to invest in real estate, how to take your earned income, buy assets with it, and then live off what you've earned with your assets. You know, I've read Rich Dad, Poor Dad five years ago, completely changed my mind in how I look at money. I'm teaching her all of that because I don't ever want her to grow up and feel like she has to depend on anyone else. Now she can depend on someone else, but I don't want
• 51:12
  Yeah, I tell my daughter, the only man I want her to rely on is me. And I'm not going to be here forever. So be your own person like you just said. But I don't know her father from anybody. And if he listens to this, I just implore you to be there for her. And because it matters. It matters. And daughter needs her daddy. And you can look at my social media and see...
• 51:40
  that it means the world to her and she means the world to me. And like, you know, I'm catching a early morning flight as you're heading right back for your daughter. And when they're made a priority, they make themselves a priority. So it's awesome. And if you keep, if nothing else, let's listen to the Heart of the Life show and I'll show you the blueprint. Let's talk a little bit more about healing, but from a perspective of men. What...
• 52:06
  What more can we do? Especially, I want to talk to my old self, the guy that didn't know what he didn't know. Anybody listening to this, any man listening to this saying, my life's fine. It's okay. I go drinking on the weekends and I have relationships and they've been good. What can they do to interrupt a pattern early?
• 52:31
  Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on Lowe's.com, right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that at Lowe's.
• 53:00
  Well, I'll speak to men who are already in relationships because I know nothing about single man brain. And the next thing too, by the way, before I interrupt you, I want to talk about the social media world we live in right now and what we should be doing because the filters –
• 53:17
  the boobs, the comment. I want to empower everybody. So keep going about the person, the guy that's in a relationship. Yeah, when you're in a relationship and you're either married or in a long-term relationship with someone that you really, really love and you're really invested in, but maybe you've been together several years
• 53:39
  It's easy to get lazy. It's easy to forget the cards and the flowers and the compliments and just sitting and listening. But those are the things that are going to make it last. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that what men want at their core, deep down from a woman, is to feel respected. To feel respected and appreciated for what they do.
• 54:07
  Yeah, and I would, you know, I meant to say this from the very beginning. I don't want somebody who isn't self-sufficient. I don't want, it's very unattractive to me to have somebody dependent on me. I mean, you can, but it's really, really sexy to see someone who runs their own business, makes their own money, has business problems that we can...
• 54:34
  solve together and it takes a different person. We talked earlier about, you can't, there's no elevator. You have to go the hard, you have to take the stairs to grow. Yeah. Because if you do, it was the fear of success.
• 54:49
  You have to become the person that is successful by one step at a time. It's like for someone who wins the lottery. We talked about this last night, Stephen. If you win the lottery, you don't know how to manage your money. No. It just came into it. So you didn't take each step. And your identity isn't, and identify with someone who has money, your identity is probably someone who struggles with it. And so, what, one to three years, you're gonna become someone who struggles with it again. And believe me, if you grow with your person,
• 55:19
  You guys are going to, it's the compounding effect. Yeah. And it's, I've read enough about this. The partner you pick can make or break you. Like, it was funny. I made a ton of money with my daughter's mother because I worked all the time because I didn't want to come home. But when I was driving home, fellas, you'll understand this. I wanted to yank my car in oncoming traffic. I mean that. I remember specifically in the very end, I'm like.
• 55:46
  I don't wanna go home. And it was that tough little thing because I wanted to go see my daughter, I love her. But I did not wanna walk into the drama that was going on at that house. And when I walked in, she had a bottle of wine open and a shit show would begin.
• 56:04
  Yeah. No, thank you. No. No. So I can see why it is very sexy and attractive to you to have a woman who has got her own thing going and you're not the center of her dependency. And for a woman, our equivalent to that is it is incredibly sexy when a man is emotionally intelligent and cares enough to keep his emotional side of the street clean so he's not spilling over onto you.
• 56:32
  Keeps coming up, fellas. She just gave you the cheat code. That's the cheat code. The cheat code. Actually, I've got two questions that will change your relationship. Oh, you guys ready for this? Change your relationship. If you ask these two questions on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, honestly, once a year would probably be better than nothing. But if you regularly ask these two questions, number one is, hey, babe.
• 57:00
  is there anything you need to hear from me? Is there anything you need to hear me say to you? And she might say, I'd love to hear you tell me that I'm pretty. I'd love to hear you tell me that you love me just one more time. But just ask, is there anything you need to hear from me? And the second question is the huge question and takes an emotional, mature human being
• 57:27
  to ask and that is, is there anything that I need to apologize for? So if you go to your woman, hold her hands and look at her lovingly, is there anything you need to hear from me and is there anything I need to apologize for? And even if the answer to both of those questions are no, the fact that you asked them
• 57:50
  It's going to be like a filtration system for your relationship. And it's going to allow an opportunity for her to say what she needs to say or not. But it shows that you care enough to be accountable. And that will save any relationship.
• 58:07
  I'm going to add to it from a male perspective. When she says yes, fellas, don't be meathead like me and do it. Do it. When she says yes, I need to be told. This is insane. This happened to me the other day. I need to be seen and heard. Don't say, what do you mean? No.
• 58:29
  Just do it. Just do it. First of all, mirror it back to it. So I'm hearing you say, I need to be seen and heard. Cool. Got it. I love you. It's that simple. Yeah. Do it. Don't defend it. No, don't defend. Because when you defend and deflect, then the woman thinks, well, why did you even ask me? I should have never said this. I am sorry to call you off because that's so important, but that's our natural reflex.
• 58:56
  If I tell you, well, why'd you wear white today? Or why'd you wear tan today? Well, because I felt like. When you heal, though, you never feel the need to defend. That's another reason why to do this. Haven't you found in life that as a human being, a lot of times our natural reflexes are actually the opposite of what's good for us?
• 59:18
  haven't I found it? Haven't you found? It's so freaking annoying. That what you think what you should do, your knee jerk, it's actually the opposite of that. So just take a breath and that's where the self-awareness piece comes in. Like just take a breath. The sacred pause. And if a woman says to you, I want to feel seen and heard, a lot of times you're like, well, what the hell does that mean? What do you mean? Like, what do you ask? Okay, what would that look like for you in this moment?
• 59:42
  And then they'll tell you and then you do it. And then guess what? That woman is going to open up to you like a flower. And women, we love to spoil our men. We love to do fun little things that make your day brighter. But if we feel like we're unseen and unheard, we're not going to do it. Fellas, it's so simple, but it's not easy. That's why it's called Harder Than Life. She just gave you a master class. Honest to God, I just did this with Brittany.
• 1:00:12
  On the flight down here to Florida. And we talked about it last night. Thank you for sharing that. That's so good. We like to end every show with a rapid fire. Just, I'm going to read something to you and it's going to be one sentence to one word. Whatever comes off your mind. There's no right. There's no wrong. It's just fun. Okay. So, provision without autonomy is. Oh, trapped. The emotion women suppress most inside golden cages.
• 1:00:39
  The emotion women suppress most inside freedom. I feel that answer. Where do women hide behind the word staying for the kids? Oh God, fear. Mass amounts of fear and shame. Confessions of a former trophy wife in one word. Liberation. I feel you. The belief that almost kept you compliant forever. That I couldn't on my own.
• 1:01:08
  Financial independence without emotional independence equals? Downward spiral. What your daughter will understand about power that you didn't. That it was there all along. She just had to find it within herself. The thing women in your DMs say most often that breaks your heart. That they want to get out of their relationships and they just don't know how.
• 1:01:34
  Because they feel like their significant other won't change and they just don't know what else to do. God, we didn't get into change enough. Security or freedom if you can only have one? Freedom. May this has been beautiful. Please share this with anybody, with a man. Preferably you gentlemen who want to understand what women want. That's what this should be, what women want, guys. And for you ladies who feel stuck...
• 1:02:00
  aren't fully in your power, reach out to May. She's beautiful inside and out. She's been through it like me. We're paying it forward. And until next week, be hearted in life.
• 1:02:11
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.