Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Divorce, Misogyny and the PR Machine

Transcript

Divorce, Misogyny and the PR Machine · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
0:06
Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Stefan. I ever told your production of iHeartRadio,
0:18
Speaker 2: and today we are coming at you with a timely episode.
0:24
Speaker 2: So today's October third, twenty twenty three, just to put
0:28
Speaker 2: that out there, and we're talking about what's going on
0:31
Speaker 2: with Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner and their divorce. It's
0:35
Speaker 2: funny because I had told Samantha before, I was like,
0:39
Speaker 2: we should do not an entertainment topic because we've done
0:43
Speaker 2: so many entertainment topics.
0:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I was like, you know, what's going on,
0:47
Speaker 3: and we needed to be talking about all these things
0:49
Speaker 3: because it has so many good connections to what we've
0:51
Speaker 3: talked about previously, whether it was just us or talking
0:53
Speaker 3: with Bridget, Like, there's so much about what we're going
0:56
Speaker 3: to go into with like social media and the power
0:58
Speaker 3: of social media now in like how to turn public
1:02
Speaker 3: opinion because of social media.
1:04
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's changing and I love this change.
1:07
Speaker 2: Yes, you originally brought this to my attention because I'm
1:10
Speaker 2: sort of about at the loop and a lot of things,
1:11
Speaker 2: So I appreciate when you do give bring these things
1:14
Speaker 2: to my attention. But a good friend of the show.
1:18
Speaker 2: A good friend of ours, Marissa also texted and was
1:21
Speaker 2: quite funny.
1:22
Speaker 3: I think the day of that says something to you
1:24
Speaker 3: about it and like we need to do this. Two
1:26
Speaker 3: days later we got that text and I was like, yeah,
1:28
Speaker 3: of course she's also she and I are pretty much
1:30
Speaker 3: on the same way Lee when it comes to like
1:32
Speaker 3: celebrity and social media and interest in general.
1:35
Speaker 2: I'm assuming your tiktoks have some differences, but a lot
1:39
Speaker 2: of similarity.
1:39
Speaker 1: A lot of similarities.
1:40
Speaker 2: Probably, yes, yes, And it was interesting for me because
1:47
Speaker 2: I don't I knew nothing about this. It does touch
1:51
Speaker 2: on a lot of stuff we've talked about, and I
1:53
Speaker 2: would say that we're talking more about the PR and
1:59
Speaker 2: the massage behind the PR and how in this case
2:03
Speaker 2: it backfired, as you say, and how like social media,
2:06
Speaker 2: how we've changed in a case like this, and related
2:11
Speaker 2: to that, I would say, yes, you can see the
2:13
Speaker 2: episode that we did with bridget about some recent high
2:15
Speaker 2: profile cases of celebrity couples breaking up. Our episode on
2:20
Speaker 2: Amber Heard and Johnny Depp came up a lot. I
2:23
Speaker 2: mean the episode didn't, but the topic came up a
2:25
Speaker 2: lot in this research. And then Britney Spears the one
2:30
Speaker 2: we did about Britney Spears and nineties. Misogyny came up
2:34
Speaker 2: a lot, So it does connect to quite a bit,
2:38
Speaker 2: which is why we're going to talk about it. So
2:41
Speaker 2: if you're like me and you really don't know what's
2:44
Speaker 2: going on, didn't know what was going on, here's a
2:46
Speaker 2: very brief history. In September of this year, twenty twenty three,
2:50
Speaker 2: A Joe Jonahs filed four divorce from actress Sophie Turner
2:54
Speaker 2: after four years of marriage, which she apparently found out
2:58
Speaker 2: about after an argument they had and she found out
3:01
Speaker 2: about it via social media. Though Jonas's people deny this,
3:05
Speaker 2: The filing claimed that their marriage was irretrievedly broken and
3:10
Speaker 2: because they are very public figures, all of these theories
3:13
Speaker 2: started flying about why they were splitting. So they met
3:17
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, when, according to Rolling Stone, Jonas slid
3:21
Speaker 2: into Turner's dms, uh see how far I've come. She
3:26
Speaker 2: was nineteen at the time. I think there's a seven
3:29
Speaker 2: year age gap between them, so he's seven years older
3:31
Speaker 2: something like that, and they made their relationship Instagram official
3:35
Speaker 2: on New Year's Day twenty seventeen. They adopted a dog
3:38
Speaker 2: together and in September and then announced that they were engaged
3:41
Speaker 2: in October of twenty seventeen. They got married in Vegas
3:45
Speaker 2: in May twenty nineteen. I think it was a part
3:47
Speaker 2: of the Billboard Awards, and then again at something more
3:51
Speaker 2: extravagant in France in June twenty nineteen. They had their
3:55
Speaker 2: first child in twenty twenty one, and their second in
3:58
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. But okay, so soon after the filing
4:03
Speaker 2: of the divorce, the couple posted a joint statement on
4:06
Speaker 2: Instagram that read, after four wonderful years of marriage, we
4:10
Speaker 2: have mutually decided to amicably end our marriage. There are
4:14
Speaker 2: many speculative narratives as to why, but truly this is
4:17
Speaker 2: a united decision and we sincerely hope that everyone can
4:20
Speaker 2: respect our wishes for privacy for us and our children.
4:25
Speaker 2: Soon after that, Jonas alluded to the divorce at a
4:28
Speaker 2: Jonas Brother's show before singing a song that was inspired
4:32
Speaker 2: by Turner. Basically, he was like, if you didn't hear
4:34
Speaker 2: it from these lips, it's not true. More about that later.
4:38
Speaker 2: Soon after that, Turner had a girl's night out with
4:41
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. I did not know that Taylor's Wift Jonas
4:45
Speaker 2: had dated, and he broke up with her for a
4:47
Speaker 2: twenty seven second phone call.
4:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was real infamous.
4:52
Speaker 2: I did not know about this.
4:54
Speaker 3: Guess several songs about him, including talking about how he's
4:57
Speaker 3: plays the nice guy and has to be mister always right.
5:00
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm learning so much. So on September
5:07
Speaker 2: twenty first, Turner sued Jonas, asking that their children be
5:12
Speaker 2: returned to their permanent residence in England and alleging that
5:16
Speaker 2: they had been quote wrongfully removed or wrongfully detained. Jonas
5:21
Speaker 2: refuses to return the passports to Turner and refuses to
5:24
Speaker 2: send the children home to England. The lawsuit also claimed
5:28
Speaker 2: that the pair had agreed to spend some time with
5:31
Speaker 2: the children in the US, so Jonas could spend some
5:33
Speaker 2: time with them while he was on tour because he
5:35
Speaker 2: had quote periods of the day to spend time with
5:38
Speaker 2: the children. Okay, so less than a week later via
5:42
Speaker 2: the rolling Stone quote, the mother and father are prohibited
5:46
Speaker 2: from removing their two children are WRJ born in twenty
5:50
Speaker 2: twenty and DMJ born in twenty twenty two. Collectively, the
5:54
Speaker 2: children are causing the children to be removed from the
5:57
Speaker 2: jurisdictions at the United States District courts. For the Southern
6:01
Speaker 2: and Eastern Districts of New York, pending further order of
6:03
Speaker 2: this Court. The entim consent order reads through the order,
6:08
Speaker 2: the Court retains the authority to quote, take, or cause
6:11
Speaker 2: to be taken measures under federal or state law as
6:14
Speaker 2: appropriate to protect the well being of the child involved,
6:17
Speaker 2: or to prevent the child's further removal or concealment before
6:20
Speaker 2: the final disposition of the petition. So there's actually a
6:26
Speaker 2: lot of like law stuff that's happening here because originally
6:30
Speaker 2: the divorce filing was in Miami, and that was part
6:32
Speaker 2: of what this lawsuit that Turner filed was saying was
6:38
Speaker 2: that that doesn't make sense because we had all these
6:41
Speaker 2: other things and she sort of bought the receipts in
6:44
Speaker 2: terms of what he had said in their living situation.
6:48
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to go too much into that,
6:50
Speaker 2: but just to say it is messy. Jonases can't release
6:55
Speaker 2: this statement. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh
6:59
Speaker 2: legal position and move forward in a more constrictive and
7:02
Speaker 2: private manner. His only concern is the well being of
7:06
Speaker 2: his children.
7:07
Speaker 1: Which is funny.
7:09
Speaker 3: I know we've been going to it in a minute
7:11
Speaker 3: because the only things for the longest time that have
7:15
Speaker 3: been noted have always all been for like Joe, Jodahs
7:20
Speaker 3: being the good guy, all these things. It's interesting, like
7:23
Speaker 3: how quickly things came out, but all about Joe being
7:25
Speaker 3: this person and that person. Immediately we see pictures of
7:28
Speaker 3: him with the kids, as if that's all he cares about,
7:32
Speaker 3: and you're like, wait, and this whole idea that Sophie
7:36
Speaker 3: just doesn't care when in actuality he has started to
7:39
Speaker 3: act again after a long period of hiatus from that
7:44
Speaker 3: because she did have children, she was being there.
7:47
Speaker 1: With the kids.
7:49
Speaker 2: But it's interesting, it is interesting, and it's also interesting
7:55
Speaker 2: because we're going to talk about this too. He's the
7:58
Speaker 2: one his team at least is the one that's releasing
8:01
Speaker 2: all of this stuff. So for him to be.
8:03
Speaker 3: A confirmed though I don't know if that's been confirmed.
8:06
Speaker 3: That's the ag like that's being what's being alleged because
8:09
Speaker 3: like tmc' is being overly respectful when they're never disrespectful,
8:13
Speaker 3: So they're alleging that that that's it is from this team,
8:16
Speaker 3: but no one really knows for sure.
8:18
Speaker 2: Right but there's nothing she has said. She has released
8:21
Speaker 2: the wrong statement with him joint statement.
8:25
Speaker 1: There's a couple of things that they think, maybe because
8:29
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna get into the ring video, the
8:32
Speaker 1: ring cam video, but like literally.
8:34
Speaker 3: Soon was like there's nothing being said except for she
8:36
Speaker 3: just kind of trash talked him for a minute. And
8:38
Speaker 3: who doesn't trash talk their partner a little bit, I.
8:45
Speaker 1: Give big eyes.
8:49
Speaker 3: But yeah, like there's a lot like that might be
8:50
Speaker 3: from the camp. And then her just hanging out with
8:52
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift alone, that is quite a scandal. Like she
8:57
Speaker 3: was just at a football game with Taylor Swift, uh
9:01
Speaker 3: this weekend and a lot of people and Ryan Reynolds
9:04
Speaker 3: and all of.
9:06
Speaker 1: Them were there, all the Swifty gangs where they are.
9:08
Speaker 3: But it's just like everybody took that as like a battle.
9:12
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a move. But she hasn't, Like she
9:15
Speaker 2: for him to say, like, yeah, I wish they would
9:18
Speaker 2: not keep saying these statements, it's.
9:20
Speaker 1: Like, right, she hasn't. The only thing she's really done
9:22
Speaker 1: is through legal uh.
9:23
Speaker 3: And again that has to do with and yeah just
9:26
Speaker 3: just when it comes to international, oh that's a whole
9:30
Speaker 3: other bridge.
9:31
Speaker 1: Uh.
9:31
Speaker 3: And conveniently, he was smart and I hate to say
9:35
Speaker 3: this as a strategy that he waited to file uh
9:38
Speaker 3: while he was in the US with the kids, because
9:41
Speaker 3: they do have an guessing they do have dual citizenship.
9:44
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine Sophie, not like I know them.
9:48
Speaker 3: Not going head forward with that giving them a dual
9:51
Speaker 3: citizenship so that that it does lean towards an American
9:55
Speaker 3: standard versus a UK standard, which would have been both
10:00
Speaker 3: of them are very maternal and we've talked about this,
10:02
Speaker 3: like when it comes to who they side with, but
10:05
Speaker 3: they're going to work with who remains where first, so
10:08
Speaker 3: they're going to try to keep them in state.
10:10
Speaker 1: So it's as a whole move he.
10:12
Speaker 2: Did it is I think you've touched on a point
10:25
Speaker 2: that I do want to, like, really make clear we
10:27
Speaker 2: don't know them. We don't know celebrities, we don't know
10:30
Speaker 2: what's going on.
10:31
Speaker 1: I don't know them a lot to be friends with.
10:34
Speaker 2: She's very cool, she does, but we don't know them.
10:38
Speaker 2: But I think that's more what I wanted to talk
10:40
Speaker 2: about what you were saying when you first suggested this
10:43
Speaker 2: is the pr spin of it and the change in
10:46
Speaker 2: the reaction of it, because it really did backfire from
10:51
Speaker 2: Joe Jonas's side where it once would have worked really
10:55
Speaker 2: really well, uh, to the.
10:57
Speaker 1: Point like it did for a while.
10:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, And to the point though, like when I
11:02
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier when he said, like, if you didn't hear
11:04
Speaker 2: it from my lips, it's not true. That was because
11:06
Speaker 2: it had backfired so badly, right, and he was trying
11:09
Speaker 2: to be like, that's not me, which I don't know,
11:13
Speaker 2: but he.
11:15
Speaker 1: Tried us before with Demi Levado.
11:19
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, he stated.
11:23
Speaker 3: So kind of this whole like Selena Gomez and Demmy
11:28
Speaker 3: and Taylor, like has everything to do with it, has
11:30
Speaker 3: something to do with like Jojonas, it's the whole thing,
11:35
Speaker 3: a lot of drama.
11:38
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know. I didn't know. But yes, let
11:43
Speaker 2: us talk about this PR stuff. So that is one
11:46
Speaker 2: of the big reasons we wanted to talk about it,
11:48
Speaker 2: because the court of public opinion, when we're looking at celebrities,
11:53
Speaker 2: it can feel very superficial. I've said before many times
11:57
Speaker 2: I feel odd talking about it, but it is important
11:59
Speaker 2: inter it shows kind of the societal where we are
12:05
Speaker 2: when we're thinking about certain tropes or certain stereotypes or
12:08
Speaker 2: certain things, and in this case, very gendered, how we
12:12
Speaker 2: feel about women and how the role women play in
12:15
Speaker 2: relationships and this did show that at least somewhat it
12:20
Speaker 2: has changed, even if the PR camp behind this whole
12:24
Speaker 2: thing apparently did not think so. And that's it's interesting
12:28
Speaker 2: because when big celebrities get divorced, there's this like the
12:32
Speaker 2: PR spin of how do we make them look good?
12:36
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of thought behind it, there's a
12:38
Speaker 2: lot of calculation behind it. And the calculation behind this
12:42
Speaker 2: one was apparently, let's make Sophie Turner look like she's
12:45
Speaker 2: a bad mom. So when tmz at first reported the
12:49
Speaker 2: couple was going to divorce, they included quotes from anonymous
12:52
Speaker 2: sources claiming Jonas was taking care of their children quote
12:55
Speaker 2: pretty much all of the time while he was touring.
12:58
Speaker 2: A source with direct knowledge said she likes to party,
13:02
Speaker 2: he likes to stay at home. Several publications took this
13:05
Speaker 2: quote and amplified it, publishing stories with it coupled with
13:09
Speaker 2: images of her dancing or drinking. The Daily Mail published
13:13
Speaker 2: a story that read she had partied without a care
13:16
Speaker 2: in the world just days before Joe Jonas divorce, at
13:20
Speaker 2: a rap party for show she had just finished filming
13:23
Speaker 2: in the UK. There were also rumors that Jonas had
13:28
Speaker 2: seen something as you had alluded to Samantha via ring
13:31
Speaker 2: camera that led to the divorce, implying cheating or bad parenting,
13:34
Speaker 2: but nothing ever came of it.
13:36
Speaker 3: It was just like believe it right, literally, and supposedly
13:40
Speaker 3: it was from his own camp that said she just
13:43
Speaker 3: badmouthed them. Essentially, they were not in a good place.
13:46
Speaker 3: And it's been a minute as they were not in
13:47
Speaker 3: good place, which is also why I'm the kick calculated
13:50
Speaker 3: everything to try to make her and that the evil
13:54
Speaker 3: mom who doesn't care about kids, which could have worked
13:57
Speaker 3: had we not all seen like the pandemicos of her
14:00
Speaker 3: saying I'd rather stay home Joe wants to go out,
14:02
Speaker 3: and it's like you could tell it was a like
14:05
Speaker 3: a moment of contention between the two of them. She's like, yeah,
14:07
Speaker 3: I'd just rather be here, and they're joking like that
14:09
Speaker 3: and he's like yeah, and they're like, this doesn't make
14:13
Speaker 3: any sense, which I know we're gonna come back to.
14:15
Speaker 3: But yeah, on top of that, the fact that she
14:19
Speaker 3: has been working so hard, she has been working so
14:22
Speaker 3: hard to keep identity, the identity of the children away
14:26
Speaker 3: from the public eye, and he just openly, like, to
14:29
Speaker 3: his credit, I guess he bargained. And again this is
14:32
Speaker 3: assumptions and like this has not been verified to cut
14:36
Speaker 3: to hide the faces of the children doing some of
14:38
Speaker 3: these pictures, but the fact that they was published in
14:40
Speaker 3: the first places suspect.
14:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we are going to talk about that because
14:45
Speaker 2: there aren't pictures of them. That has been very important.
14:48
Speaker 1: In fact, are their names.
14:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, until recently, until this, we didn't know their names.
14:55
Speaker 2: And so the fact that this picture came out like
14:57
Speaker 2: soon after he announced this is very like, hmm, that's calculated,
15:01
Speaker 2: right right.
15:02
Speaker 3: Again, like you can tell this was a bargaining situation
15:06
Speaker 3: of like, yeah, you can have the kids while I'm
15:07
Speaker 3: filming because it's a whole lot, so go ahead and
15:09
Speaker 3: do that. And then he did all the things while
15:12
Speaker 3: she was gone, which is supposedly his IMO.
15:15
Speaker 1: This is the third relationship that's opened up about how
15:17
Speaker 1: he does this.
15:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, which again as news to me, but yeah, you're welcome,
15:26
Speaker 2: thank you. So here's a quote from Bogue, and this
15:30
Speaker 2: was quoting a source. They have very different lifestyles. A
15:33
Speaker 2: source told TMC it's an interesting strategy to lightly tinker
15:36
Speaker 2: on keys of absent motherhood, broadly painting Turner's alleged over
15:40
Speaker 2: partying as a hindrance to fully serving the domestic needs
15:43
Speaker 2: of her family. From an outsider's point of view, team
15:46
Speaker 2: Jonas is throwing a careless mother narrative at proceedings and
15:49
Speaker 2: seeing if it sticks, sowing seeds of his wife being
15:52
Speaker 2: a less than gold star parent. Nobody's saying out while
15:56
Speaker 2: she's said part. It's just heavily, heavily insinuated that her
16:00
Speaker 2: liking to go out clashes with his home body status.
16:03
Speaker 2: It's very read between the lines. Please, she is not
16:06
Speaker 2: mothering an unacceptable standard. And then from ABC, multiple tabloids,
16:11
Speaker 2: including TMZ in The Daily Mail cited anonymous sources characterizing
16:15
Speaker 2: Turner as a partygoer who felt trapped in her marriage
16:17
Speaker 2: and wanted to live out her youth. Meanwhile, Jonas was
16:21
Speaker 2: painted as a dutiful father, solely caring for their two
16:25
Speaker 2: young children, even as his family band, The Jonas Brothers,
16:29
Speaker 2: is on tour. So that was heard of the early
16:32
Speaker 2: take that was happening. But then, not long after these
16:39
Speaker 2: misogynistic takes had been published, a lot of other publications
16:43
Speaker 2: and a lot of people on social media called it out.
16:46
Speaker 2: Whereas once a lot of us would have just kind
16:48
Speaker 2: of nodded along and accepted the narrative. They called out
16:51
Speaker 2: how he was trying to paint her as a bad
16:53
Speaker 2: mom when he never said anything previously about it. It
16:57
Speaker 2: had never been an issue before. Soothing TikTokers even found
17:01
Speaker 2: a video they made together where they said she was
17:06
Speaker 2: the home body of the relationship. And there's a clip
17:09
Speaker 2: from Conan O'Brien where she said he she was the introvert,
17:13
Speaker 2: he was the social butterfly and quote, I struggled to
17:15
Speaker 2: lock him down and just spend time with me, right, Yeah,
17:19
Speaker 2: that's twenty twenty, I think she said.
17:21
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm, it's all suspect.
17:25
Speaker 3: It's a little suspect, of course, like a big turn
17:29
Speaker 3: of phrase. Of course, it's that she's the Queen of
17:32
Speaker 3: the North, yes, and that I love those memes.
17:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, we could have supposed to be like for her.
17:38
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, this is an amazingly like traumatic
17:41
Speaker 3: moment for her. So many bad things. This is her
17:43
Speaker 3: first big relationship. It was published. You know, she has
17:46
Speaker 3: two kids at a really young age, like she settled
17:48
Speaker 3: down very young. There's a lot of like I remember
17:51
Speaker 3: thinking when they were dating, like they're cute, but hmmm,
17:55
Speaker 3: how quickly he jumped on her when she turned quote
17:57
Speaker 3: unquote legal, which is still grossed me. But like if
17:59
Speaker 3: they consenting adults and seem happy whatever whatnot to that level,
18:03
Speaker 3: Like I've seen worst age gaps, hello Leonardo DiCaprio, But
18:07
Speaker 3: like to see that you have all of these like
18:10
Speaker 3: clips where you are a powerhouse woman and that being
18:13
Speaker 3: used in your defense by fans, that's gonna be empowering
18:17
Speaker 3: in itself.
18:18
Speaker 2: Right right right. I saw a lot of like she
18:22
Speaker 2: brought the receipts like the fans and you can't pull
18:25
Speaker 2: this anymore proof, Like I.
18:28
Speaker 3: Don't know, I think ever since we've watched all the
18:31
Speaker 3: fall aparts and you know, even with like the Brad
18:33
Speaker 3: Pitt Angelina Jolie when it first began, really painted her
18:37
Speaker 3: as like a witch and like overprotective mative flies. And
18:41
Speaker 3: then you turn and see, oh, he got charged by
18:43
Speaker 3: people for the best violence.
18:45
Speaker 1: None of us because want anything to do with him.
18:47
Speaker 1: All of these things are.
18:47
Speaker 3: Really gross and people are slowly like sorry, Angelina. Those
18:52
Speaker 3: people were still bitter about the Jennifer Aniston thing, but
18:54
Speaker 3: that's a whole different conversation. But you know, since then
18:58
Speaker 3: things has started to turn as well as the Britney
19:00
Speaker 3: Spears recent divorce. He tried to paint her, he tried
19:03
Speaker 3: to use the old tactics, and people are not buying
19:05
Speaker 3: it as much.
19:06
Speaker 2: No, no, they're not. And that did come up a
19:09
Speaker 2: lot in this about the comparison of what happened with
19:13
Speaker 2: Britney Spears and justin Timberlake to what's happening now. But
19:17
Speaker 2: also like that he apologized in twenty twenty one.
19:20
Speaker 1: Right barely, yeah, like very.
19:23
Speaker 3: Barely, very barely, after he got called out so many
19:26
Speaker 3: times all the things that he's done because he kept
19:29
Speaker 3: making statements.
19:30
Speaker 2: Yep, sure did, but it does seem like things have
19:35
Speaker 2: changed at least a little bit. So Sonny Austin Houston
19:40
Speaker 2: at the View called out this narrative. She said, what
19:43
Speaker 2: I don't like about the spin lately is that he's
19:45
Speaker 2: taking care of the kids. I'm sorry, is this immaculate conception?
19:49
Speaker 2: There are his freaking kids too, So what he's taking
19:52
Speaker 2: care of the kids? Does he get a gold star?
19:55
Speaker 2: And then another host on the show said, at the
19:58
Speaker 2: end of the day, we don't know what's going on
20:00
Speaker 2: between them or what's happening. Sarah Hayes replied, I think
20:03
Speaker 2: the spin of this that bothers me is she's working,
20:06
Speaker 2: he's working. These weren't new careers. They met on these terms.
20:10
Speaker 2: She's at a rap party for a show she did.
20:12
Speaker 2: We have rap parties here. You celebrate the end really fun.
20:16
Speaker 2: So that isn't just a bar that she's out hanging
20:19
Speaker 2: out at. She happens to be with her colleagues at
20:21
Speaker 2: a bar celebrating the end of a series. We don't
20:23
Speaker 2: know if the other times the kids are with her
20:25
Speaker 2: or if she can have the kids with her.
20:27
Speaker 3: And you know, there was actually speaking of the TikTok videos,
20:31
Speaker 3: and I love that I'm going into this over the
20:32
Speaker 3: fact that we're actually talking about the misogynists, Like.
20:35
Speaker 1: Let me tell you the gossip. Let me tell you
20:36
Speaker 1: the gossip.
20:37
Speaker 3: Essentially, there was a dude in one of the pictures
20:40
Speaker 3: with Sophie and like what, she's holding a drink and
20:44
Speaker 3: like that was what they posted, Like she's flirting with men,
20:46
Speaker 3: Like that was the implication.
20:47
Speaker 1: She's flirting with other.
20:48
Speaker 3: Men and there are these things and he comes out
20:50
Speaker 3: he's like, nah, she's not my interest. First of all,
20:53
Speaker 3: that's the first time I ever met her. By the way,
20:54
Speaker 3: she only had two drinks at most she was never
20:57
Speaker 3: infuscated at any point in time.
20:58
Speaker 1: You could tell she was there to gratulate everybody.
21:01
Speaker 3: There was nothing. He's like, I barely talked to this woman,
21:03
Speaker 3: but y'all want to. But people want try to make
21:05
Speaker 3: this a bad thing. I wasn't there with her. I
21:07
Speaker 3: barely talked to her. Like we got a picture like
21:09
Speaker 3: he was doing this whole thing where he got mad
21:12
Speaker 3: because the kind of got wrapped up into being accused
21:14
Speaker 3: of like flirting with her, her flirting with him, which
21:17
Speaker 3: was not the case at all. So that entire thing
21:20
Speaker 3: was like people from the rap party are like, what
21:21
Speaker 3: are you doing, dude? This was literally a job, Like
21:24
Speaker 3: we had to do this as part of our job.
21:27
Speaker 3: Of course, it's nice to be you and I have
21:29
Speaker 3: gone through many a meetings Annie where we sit and
21:32
Speaker 3: drink and just like it's a together thing, but it's
21:34
Speaker 3: also a work thing where we can actually celebrate or
21:37
Speaker 3: talk through anything that had we had issues with it
21:39
Speaker 3: or whatever. So I'm like, wow, they really did try
21:41
Speaker 3: to change to the thing and no one was going
21:43
Speaker 3: to say a word, right, And.
21:45
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing. It is like a celebratory
21:47
Speaker 2: thing and it is a work thing, like it can
21:51
Speaker 2: be strange to think of it that way, but a
21:53
Speaker 2: lot of times, for a lot of us, you do
21:55
Speaker 2: have these parties. You go to the holiday party at
21:58
Speaker 2: the end of the year that maybe you don't want
21:59
Speaker 2: to go to, but it's it's important for work that
22:00
Speaker 2: you go to.
22:01
Speaker 3: Like it's and again, like, I love that we're talking
22:04
Speaker 3: about the celebrities as if a majority, if not all,
22:07
Speaker 3: celebrities and people who have enough wealth don't have nannies,
22:12
Speaker 3: and most of them have live in nanny's, so like
22:14
Speaker 3: pretending like there would be nobody to care for them,
22:16
Speaker 3: it's kind of like a nod Like right.
22:18
Speaker 2: I thought that to you. I was like, I'm sure
22:21
Speaker 2: someone is taking care of these kids.
22:24
Speaker 3: Sing like we saw a nanny with Joe Jonahs. How
22:28
Speaker 3: come coundn't handle two kids by himself? Yeah right, I mean,
22:32
Speaker 3: come on, come on, just saying.
22:34
Speaker 2: Just saying. So, here's a quote from Glamour. Given all
22:41
Speaker 2: the tabloid drama against her, I wouldn't have been surprised
22:44
Speaker 2: to learn that women and the internet were collectively turning
22:47
Speaker 2: on Turner, calling her a bad mom, a party girl,
22:49
Speaker 2: or worse. Instead, a strange and beautiful thing has been happening. People,
22:55
Speaker 2: especially women, have seen through the attacks and rallied around
22:58
Speaker 2: Turner and Droves and her comments on Instagram and elsewhere online.
23:03
Speaker 3: You know, I think there's a big part in which
23:05
Speaker 3: enough women have gone through divorce. Yeah, enough people have
23:09
Speaker 3: seen the ugliness of divorce, and enough people have seen
23:12
Speaker 3: it on like social media too much. Other than calling
23:15
Speaker 3: people out what it was that women are like, are
23:19
Speaker 3: just people in generally do we really think this this
23:22
Speaker 3: is working? This is going a little too hard? And
23:24
Speaker 3: that was the other part is like you're trying too hard?
23:27
Speaker 3: What are you covering up?
23:28
Speaker 1: Bruh.
23:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of the things I read, which
23:32
Speaker 2: I'm sure you saw because they were mostly from TikTok,
23:34
Speaker 2: But there are pr experts who were saying, like silence
23:37
Speaker 2: was more powerful in this case, he should have just
23:39
Speaker 2: not said anything, and then who knows what would have happened.
23:42
Speaker 3: I think like if you had just left it alone
23:44
Speaker 3: with they're going through a divorce and the amicable thing,
23:48
Speaker 3: and then maybe even like saying, you know, some issues
23:51
Speaker 3: have arisen. There was a video, if you had left
23:55
Speaker 3: that alone instead of saying she's gone partying, she's done this,
23:58
Speaker 3: They're like.
24:01
Speaker 1: You protest too much.
24:05
Speaker 2: Shakespeare.
24:09
Speaker 1: That's not a quote, but.
24:11
Speaker 2: We got it.
24:12
Speaker 1: We got it.
24:23
Speaker 2: I did find it really interesting that a lot of
24:25
Speaker 2: people rallied around her and pointed out that she had
24:29
Speaker 2: been so young. So a lot of people it really
24:33
Speaker 2: resonated with a lot of women or mothers that Turner
24:38
Speaker 2: is somehow doing something wrong by having a life that
24:41
Speaker 2: occasionally takes her away from her children. And they really
24:44
Speaker 2: understood that feeling of being judged for that. So a
24:47
Speaker 2: lot of the comments reflected that. But here are some examples.
24:51
Speaker 2: Enjoy the rest of your twenties and start a new
24:53
Speaker 2: chapter knowing you gave love ago. All the best to
24:56
Speaker 2: you and your kids, Sophie wrote somebody on Instagram other one,
25:01
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that such a sensitive personal matter of yours
25:03
Speaker 2: is so public. I hope you can attempt resilience and
25:06
Speaker 2: find solace in the fact that women are so much
25:08
Speaker 2: more than their mother title, and a lot of us
25:10
Speaker 2: moms and women are like sympathize with you against nasty
25:13
Speaker 2: narratives being pushed. I really hope you're doing okay.
25:19
Speaker 3: You know, like there's this kind of that conversation in
25:23
Speaker 3: general when it comes to men who want to have children,
25:26
Speaker 3: and they feel like they can suck to settle and
25:28
Speaker 3: so therefore they go for younger women who can who
25:31
Speaker 3: are in prime childbirth giving times, I guess, which is
25:35
Speaker 3: a whole different conversation. But like, you know, Chris Evans
25:40
Speaker 3: is a great example right now who everybody was like,
25:43
Speaker 3: oh my god, he's finally, you know, settling down and
25:46
Speaker 3: it's a pretty young woman. And in his whole reasoning
25:50
Speaker 3: for settled now, it's like, I want to start a family.
25:52
Speaker 3: But he got like just like the people tell that,
25:54
Speaker 3: he got through most of his like angsty twenties and
25:58
Speaker 3: thirties doing whatever you wanted, right and now here he
26:01
Speaker 3: is picking the young wife who I'm not saying they're
26:04
Speaker 3: not in love. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with
26:06
Speaker 3: any of the relationship because again we've seen problematic things.
26:09
Speaker 3: I will go with Henry cavill as one that have
26:12
Speaker 3: decided to go with really super young women because he
26:14
Speaker 3: wouldn't want them to be tainted by the industry. It's
26:17
Speaker 3: like quote unquote, which is real gross. But but all
26:21
Speaker 3: of that to say is like there's this kind of
26:22
Speaker 3: narrative which is really able to listen sexist in that
26:26
Speaker 3: ideal and we are all accepted, like we all are like, yeah,
26:30
Speaker 3: that makes sense, Like, no wonder this forty five year
26:33
Speaker 3: old man is marrying this twenty five year old woman
26:35
Speaker 3: because he wants a family.
26:36
Speaker 2: Now.
26:37
Speaker 3: Of course he's not on days one of his age
26:38
Speaker 3: now because the likelihood of them having children is dangerous
26:42
Speaker 3: and all these things. But this conversation kind of leads into, yeah,
26:45
Speaker 3: you're stealing the prime of their lives essentially, but you
26:49
Speaker 3: didn't have to sacrifice yours. So there's this whole narrative
26:54
Speaker 3: that has been a constant nothing that's just in general,
26:57
Speaker 3: like all of misogynistic life patriarchal standing that we don't
27:02
Speaker 3: talk enough about. And again, biology is whatever, whatever, whatnot.
27:06
Speaker 3: People my age are having children and are healthy and
27:08
Speaker 3: all these things, but it's just this level of sexist
27:12
Speaker 3: patriarchal idea that this is the only way to go
27:15
Speaker 3: and not realizing yeah, this like Sophie Turner is twenty
27:19
Speaker 3: seven and has had children. I'm sure she loves her children,
27:22
Speaker 3: doesn't regret that for her a thing, all of those things,
27:25
Speaker 3: any of those things. Again, don't know these people, but
27:27
Speaker 3: there is that comment of like, yeah, you didn't get
27:30
Speaker 3: to explore your life beyond this, like you just jumped
27:35
Speaker 3: into this to this, And I will say, for my mother,
27:38
Speaker 3: who did the exact same thing, that definitely didn't even
27:40
Speaker 3: have almost a childhood.
27:42
Speaker 1: Uh. She has this.
27:43
Speaker 3: Comments where she doesn't resent us her kids necessarily, but
27:47
Speaker 3: she has moments of like I'm missed out and tries
27:49
Speaker 3: to lift through her children. And there's a lot of
27:52
Speaker 3: trauma in that as well. But we don't have that conversation.
27:55
Speaker 1: Enough about like ew, what is this really?
27:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of people pointed that out. They
28:02
Speaker 2: were like, what what was he expecting that she would
28:05
Speaker 2: just settle.
28:08
Speaker 1: She does just not doing anything except for working.
28:11
Speaker 2: I know, Oh my gosh, I know. We're gonna talk
28:14
Speaker 2: about this more in a second. So I would love
28:18
Speaker 2: to come back and do a whole episode on this
28:20
Speaker 2: because I did go kind of on a rabbit hole
28:22
Speaker 2: excursion of like learning about PR, the PR celebrity machine.
28:27
Speaker 2: But when experts when it comes to that say that
28:31
Speaker 2: anonymous sources are often the person themselves or someone paid
28:34
Speaker 2: to speak on their behalf, So I always kind of
28:37
Speaker 2: look out for that. And then yes, as you mentioned
28:41
Speaker 2: on top of that, days after the divorce announcement, Jonas
28:43
Speaker 2: was photographed having lunch with their two daughters, something that
28:47
Speaker 2: is often called a pap walk or a planted which
28:50
Speaker 2: is essentially a planned or staged paparazzi moment, which was
28:55
Speaker 2: particularly galling for a lot of folks given Turner's comments
28:59
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty two. My daughter never asked for any
29:03
Speaker 2: of this. I know what it can do to your
29:04
Speaker 2: mental health to be in this industry and to be
29:07
Speaker 2: photographed every day and have the comments. She's not very
29:10
Speaker 2: active on social media because she has said that this
29:13
Speaker 2: is harmful for mental health. And yeah, they've their kids
29:17
Speaker 2: just have not been in the limelight. They have not
29:21
Speaker 2: had their pictures taken. So this was a very like aver.
29:24
Speaker 2: It was a difference. It was outside of the.
29:26
Speaker 3: Norm, right again, like people a lot of TikTok pr
29:30
Speaker 3: people were like, they don't typically blow out photos.
29:33
Speaker 1: So there's some level of take, give and take in
29:36
Speaker 1: this in this conversation. Yeah, how disrespectful.
29:40
Speaker 3: How disrespectful because that is a like we know so
29:45
Speaker 3: many bad things, Like we've even had that conversation with
29:47
Speaker 3: bridget about children getting on social media too early and
29:50
Speaker 3: then their lives being ruined. And I can't imagine we
29:53
Speaker 3: can We've seen many young children of celebrities who've been
29:59
Speaker 3: really really league put through the ringer because of them
30:03
Speaker 3: being released too soon, and even those who try to
30:05
Speaker 3: hide until like I know, Michael Jackson's daughter Forever was
30:09
Speaker 3: not on there, and then all of a sudden she wasn't.
30:10
Speaker 3: She was getting reamed.
30:11
Speaker 2: It's like wow, yeah, yeah, And we did do that
30:15
Speaker 2: episode on Bridge it and it wasn't necessarily on celebrity children,
30:17
Speaker 2: but on like mom Fluence, yes, and the Damning No Children, Yeah, exactly.
30:23
Speaker 2: So this does play into a lot of things we
30:25
Speaker 2: have talked about also. One is the bad girl trope
30:28
Speaker 2: for young women. We did talk about that with Britney
30:30
Speaker 2: Spears and a lot of women from the nineties that
30:33
Speaker 2: the media and a lot of just does a society
30:36
Speaker 2: really reamed, were raked over the coals. So it's just
30:41
Speaker 2: essentially like you get this kind of young, sexy woman
30:45
Speaker 2: and then she rises up to a point and then
30:49
Speaker 2: you destroy her. She's the bad girl. She ruined justin
30:52
Speaker 2: Timberlake's life or whatever it is. So there was that
30:56
Speaker 2: kind of thing that they were trying to do with
30:57
Speaker 2: Sophie Turner.
30:59
Speaker 1: I forgot about Ashley Green.
31:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, with the Jonahs, like he blamed her for losing
31:06
Speaker 3: his virginity.
31:07
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, and like like got her pretty like
31:11
Speaker 4: was skating.
31:12
Speaker 1: But yeah, he loves God. He loves blaming women a scene.
31:16
Speaker 1: It seems or his campus taught him to do that
31:18
Speaker 1: or doing it for him. I don't know which is
31:20
Speaker 1: far us. But like, these are a bit of a pattern.
31:25
Speaker 3: Because when you were talking about the bad girl ruining people, yeah,
31:28
Speaker 3: that was that narrative.
31:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he has really played into that. We are
31:31
Speaker 2: going to talk about that in a second. Here are
31:34
Speaker 2: a couple of quotes tweets about this. So bro really
31:39
Speaker 2: thought he could run the nineties justin Timberlake misogyny in
31:42
Speaker 2: the press, playbook on the mother of his children and
31:44
Speaker 2: not get called out. In twenty twenty three, and that
31:47
Speaker 2: was a viral tweet with over it's like hundred thousand
31:49
Speaker 2: views that I got from CNN. Here's another from the
31:52
Speaker 2: Washington Post. I think I'm supposed to gather from all
31:55
Speaker 2: the carefully placed headlines that she's a partier and that's
31:58
Speaker 2: a bad mom. Well, he's the hero dad making sacrifices.
32:01
Speaker 2: Jazabelle's former editor in chief, Laura Bassett wrote and a
32:04
Speaker 2: viral post on ex formally Twitter, but no one seems
32:07
Speaker 2: to question why he, at thirty, decided to marry a
32:10
Speaker 2: twenty three year old and thought she'd suddenly turn into
32:13
Speaker 2: a tradwife. Going back to your point, here's another. The
32:19
Speaker 2: media is focus on Turner's parenting and purported nightlife interest
32:22
Speaker 2: show how the archetypal roles of mothers is far more
32:25
Speaker 2: entrenched in society than the role of the father, said
32:28
Speaker 2: Sarah Peterson, a writer and author of Monfluence. Inside the
32:31
Speaker 2: maddening picture perfect world of mommy influence culture, we still
32:35
Speaker 2: presume a good mother's who adhere to mid century gender norms,
32:38
Speaker 2: and we will accept pretty much anything from a father,
32:41
Speaker 2: she said, Like, even if she does like to party,
32:43
Speaker 2: that has nothing to do with her ability to care
32:46
Speaker 2: for a child, make a child feel safe and secure
32:48
Speaker 2: and loved, and provide for a child. It's absolutely nothing
32:51
Speaker 2: to do with her mother in capabilities, Peterson added, Nor
32:54
Speaker 2: does the assertion that jonas as a homebody have anything
32:57
Speaker 2: to do with his capabilities as a parent. I felt
33:00
Speaker 2: like this is important to point out because again, the
33:03
Speaker 2: evidence that we have seems to suggest she doesn't like
33:08
Speaker 2: party too hard. But even if she likes to party,
33:11
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that. Like Bridgett said where you
33:14
Speaker 2: had her on moms deserved a party too.
33:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's the thing is like, yeah, let's let's
33:20
Speaker 3: enjoy it being an adult.
33:22
Speaker 1: Do what you want if you can.
33:23
Speaker 3: And yeah, if you can afford childcare, that's even more wonderful,
33:27
Speaker 3: do you but don't know, Yeah, don't put your children
33:29
Speaker 3: in harms way?
33:30
Speaker 1: How about that? Right?
33:31
Speaker 2: Like, there are ways to responsibly party for you and
33:35
Speaker 2: your kids responsibly, party responsibly. But this kind of goes
33:41
Speaker 2: back to what you were saying about Joe Jonas because
33:44
Speaker 2: he's been his camp has been really leaning into his
33:47
Speaker 2: quote wife guy persona, this like home body. I'm a
33:51
Speaker 2: good like husband dude. Yeah, and she's she's out partying
33:59
Speaker 2: while I'm here with these kids. As I said, she
34:03
Speaker 2: has released so we Turner has released one statement. There's
34:06
Speaker 2: a joint statement with him, and that could have been it.
34:09
Speaker 2: They could have just the Joners camp could have just
34:12
Speaker 2: stuck with that too, but they didn't. And that's sort
34:15
Speaker 2: of where this all went wrong. Here's the quote using
34:21
Speaker 2: sources is ugly and people now see through it. While
34:23
Speaker 2: court papers are on record and are clearly attributed audiences
34:27
Speaker 2: know who is filing them A long time celebrity news
34:30
Speaker 2: editor tails Axios, Turner came out point blank with legal
34:33
Speaker 2: documents and statements that say who, what, where, and why.
34:37
Speaker 2: She's not pretending to hide behind sources and yeah, you
34:42
Speaker 2: can read them. She did release all these court documents
34:45
Speaker 2: that prove that the pair was looking for a permanent
34:47
Speaker 2: residence in the UK three months before they're divorced. It's
34:51
Speaker 2: actually kind of sad because they're very sweet, but yeah,
34:57
Speaker 2: she was not. She did, Yeah the proof. He allegedly
35:03
Speaker 2: did not provide her support when she was struggling with
35:05
Speaker 2: depression after the birth of their second child and pressured
35:08
Speaker 2: her to go to events with him, and yeah, it's
35:12
Speaker 2: not this has not gone well for him.
35:14
Speaker 4: Uh.
35:15
Speaker 2: From Axias. There were fifty three one hundred and ten
35:19
Speaker 2: articles written about Jonas in the past month, per Rock Data,
35:23
Speaker 2: and Turner gained over one hundred and fifty thousand Instagram
35:26
Speaker 2: followers in a month after this, So yeah, uh, it
35:30
Speaker 2: is interesting because I would have expected people would have
35:34
Speaker 2: just turned on her, right, but that's not what has happened.
35:41
Speaker 1: And I'm glad.
35:42
Speaker 3: I'm glad to see that the narrative changing. I hate
35:44
Speaker 3: that that this is going to be so awful for
35:46
Speaker 3: the two of them. Six games he kind of laid
35:48
Speaker 3: that foundation out. The reason name makes no sense. There
35:52
Speaker 3: honestly didn't need to be their very private majority of
35:56
Speaker 3: the time, so it doesn't even make sense. Of course,
35:58
Speaker 3: there's also information that the brothers, Kevin and Nick, have
36:04
Speaker 3: been encouraging him to divorce her, and then the ring
36:09
Speaker 3: cam cam video was the final straw again just apparently
36:14
Speaker 3: talking trash about him, which I'm like, if she's not
36:17
Speaker 3: talking trash about because she's not having an affair, she's
36:20
Speaker 3: not you know, like.
36:23
Speaker 2: Right, And I did. I did read a whole thing.
36:26
Speaker 2: I didn't include it in here because I really don't
36:27
Speaker 2: know enough about it, but I did read the whole
36:29
Speaker 2: thing about like the Jonas brothers kind of their brand
36:35
Speaker 2: and kind of like her not fitting into their right.
36:41
Speaker 3: So I mean that might be very very true in
36:45
Speaker 3: like this whole I'm not really sure what the brand
36:48
Speaker 3: would be.
36:48
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's like a fan well that I guess
36:51
Speaker 2: they were more saying she didn't It's not that she
36:53
Speaker 2: didn't fit in, but that if they were going to divorce,
36:56
Speaker 2: they needed to prove that he was a family man.
36:58
Speaker 2: I think that was they were so.
37:00
Speaker 1: Okay, and that's supposed to be what it was.
37:03
Speaker 2: That's what I read that they were trying to prove
37:07
Speaker 2: because that's sort of their wholesome family, nostalgic brands, like,
37:13
Speaker 2: look at how wholesome family.
37:15
Speaker 4: I am.
37:15
Speaker 3: The only one who could really say that would be Kevin,
37:18
Speaker 3: the oldest brother. But because I think he has I'm
37:23
Speaker 3: not saying it's easy, but like she's not famous, so
37:26
Speaker 3: like they are able to stay out of the lime light. Also,
37:30
Speaker 3: he still at least liked at the three thing at
37:32
Speaker 3: least popular, so they stay out of the limelight a
37:34
Speaker 3: little more than the other two.
37:38
Speaker 2: I see, Okay, I could be wrong.
37:42
Speaker 1: You always have to have that one.
37:44
Speaker 3: Hanson brothers had a top. I actually don't know any
37:52
Speaker 3: Jonah's brothers songs, so I can't. I like this, thank you,
37:58
Speaker 3: I am done.
37:58
Speaker 2: Now I will. I'll end with this. I don't want
38:02
Speaker 2: to go into it too much, but I did breathe
38:04
Speaker 2: a whole thing that was about like, it's really good
38:08
Speaker 2: that we as consumers of media have become much more
38:12
Speaker 2: skeptical and become much more like, wait, what is the
38:15
Speaker 2: pr freezon behind this is what is the what are
38:19
Speaker 2: they trying to get from me out of this or
38:21
Speaker 2: make me believe out of this? But it does have negatives,
38:25
Speaker 2: which is mostly that we don't trust anything anymore, which
38:28
Speaker 2: is fair, I would say in some cases. But yeah,
38:31
Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting. It was an interesting article
38:33
Speaker 2: about it, but it was also about like how we
38:37
Speaker 2: stories about how I don't know how dramatic their divorces
38:42
Speaker 2: are going to get more traction than like the actual
38:44
Speaker 2: raggy So it's sort of like not a healthy media system.
38:48
Speaker 3: TMZ jumped on is so quickly, right, Yeah, who has
38:51
Speaker 3: probably become the trashiest of all tabloids and really disrespectful
38:57
Speaker 3: of all tabloids.
38:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was thinking about this earlier. Has led
39:03
Speaker 2: to some death.
39:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know that the UK is not nice either
39:09
Speaker 3: when it comes to that, but like the announcing of
39:13
Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant's death before like family members could know, was
39:16
Speaker 3: so disrespectful. Like I don't like Kobe Bryant necessarily, I'm
39:20
Speaker 3: not necessarily a fan. Death is so sad, but I
39:23
Speaker 3: mean I also remember that he's had he's a problematic.
39:26
Speaker 3: He was a problematic man as well, but his death
39:30
Speaker 3: was a tragedy. His daughter's death was a tragedy, and
39:33
Speaker 3: the way they spread that news was so gross, Like
39:37
Speaker 3: that's but that's the type of people, that's the type
39:39
Speaker 3: of publication they are, And I think it says a lot.
39:41
Speaker 2: Yeah it does, so I guess I always keep that
39:44
Speaker 2: in mind too.
39:44
Speaker 1: And people who align with them are not great. Just saying.
39:52
Speaker 2: It's so funny because I read so many tweets that
39:55
Speaker 2: were coming from like my perspective. They're like, I literally
39:58
Speaker 2: didn't care about the guy and now I don't like it.
40:03
Speaker 1: You're like, oh yeah, definitely dead to me.
40:06
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess exactly.
40:09
Speaker 3: I know. I don't know your music, I don't listen
40:11
Speaker 3: to your music, and I don't like you.
40:13
Speaker 2: I don't like you anymore. This is need to happen
40:16
Speaker 2: for me or for you. You could have avoided the
40:18
Speaker 2: whole thing.
40:20
Speaker 4: To me, But here you are, here you are, and
40:23
Speaker 4: now we're doing your podcast you yeah, yeah, but I
40:30
Speaker 4: do think it was it was we're talking about.
40:32
Speaker 2: So glad you put it on the radar. Thanks Versa
40:34
Speaker 2: as always for chiming in. Uh and yeah, listeners, if
40:38
Speaker 2: you have any thoughts about this, again, this is a
40:40
Speaker 2: really timely one who knows what's going to happen, but
40:44
Speaker 2: you can let us know. You can email us at Stephandia,
40:47
Speaker 2: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
40:49
Speaker 2: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram or
40:53
Speaker 2: TikTok at stuff One ever told you we have a
40:55
Speaker 2: tea public store and we have a book that you
40:57
Speaker 2: can get that stuff you should read books dot com.
41:00
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, our executive
41:02
Speaker 2: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
41:05
Speaker 2: to you for listening. Steffan never told you this perfection
41:07
Speaker 2: of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
41:09
Speaker 2: you can check out the heart Radio app, Peple Podcasts,
41:11
Speaker 2: or whever you listen to your favorite show