Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 540 - $12 Billion A Year! Did Overseas Remittances Secretly Rebuilt Modern Vietnam? - Phu Nguyen

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540 - $12 Billion A Year! Did Overseas Remittances Secretly Rebuilt Modern Vietnam? - Phu Nguyen · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
0:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Today I am sitting with an old friend mind fool him in.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We met each other while we were at you.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The VSAs at, you know, you're at Cal State Fullerton.
0:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at USC and today we have a lot to talk about.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Full is a board, a trusty for Coast College board of trustees and he is a member of the QualFAC family and today we're going to talk about the QualFAC family, the remittance, reconciliation, all of these ideas of money and Vietnam and reconciliation.
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast, full.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Ken.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoy all your work, especially all the ones on history.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It really gives the young people an opportunity to learn about our culture, our history, and I for one really appreciate it, and you guys are doing great work, and thanks for inviting me.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Fool.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you coming on and I know that, you know, this idea of remittance and sending remittance, sending money back to Vietnam from the US is such a big deal.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big deal in the Filipino community, in the Mexican community, and of course, in the Vietnamese community, we have such a huge culture of remittance because how close to are with our families.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So before we get into that, I want to ask you about how
1:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it all started my family left in 1981 on a small boat.
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We were stranded at sea for almost 30 days.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Nine children died of starvation on that boat.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: On the boat, we were finally rescued and taken to a UN refugee camp.
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Ironically, we were rescued by the Chinese military.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we always talk about like, oh, you know, Vietnamese people have this conflict with Chinese, you know, government and all that.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was the Chinese military that showed the act of kindness and rescue us and had a, and took us to a Hong Kong fishing vessel and told us to the UN refugee camp.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, always grateful for, for those amazing people who matter politically, government,
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you see kind people, you appreciate them.
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, we were taken to a refugee camp, eight months later, we were sponsored to come to the United States, and then we came to California.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: How old are you at the time?
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I was four.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just turned four, and when we got to California, my mom and dad worked the next day.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, right over here, right?
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, we were shopped maybe like 200 feet away for hit from here.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: called a mini.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It was owned by her friend who was actually my mom's rice mate in Vietnam.
3:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, hey, come here, I'll give you a job.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how we first came to Lyra's like on here, working my mom worked at that shop right down there.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And two years later, after they were able to save up some money, they opened up their first shop.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom's name was Hua, my mom's name, my dad's name is Fat.
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they opened the shop called Flathat, Fabric and Gifts in 1984.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've been in business as the Flathat business in Louis, I've gone for 42 years now.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the Flathat Fabric and Gifts, it was mostly helping people send Gifts to Vietnam.
3:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But at that time, the U.S. still had a trade embargo on Vietnam.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So packages, gifts could not be sent directly.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we had to go through France, go through Air France cargo, and work around that way.
4:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we were able to help the Vietnamese community here, send gifts to the relatives in Vietnam.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: people left because they wanted a better life for the families.
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Those that were able to leave your responsibility was to try to help those who are back there.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you will know remittance at that time.
4:27
[SPEAKER_00]: People were sending daily news items, soap, shampoo, medicines, clothes, household items,
4:38
[SPEAKER_00]: back to the relatives so that their relatives in Vietnam can open up the small, make it, they call it, make a quann, the quann, you know, like a little convenient store at the corner of neighborhoods.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how the community here helped their relatives in Vietnam to raise their standard of living, to help with a business.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Later on, as
5:05
[SPEAKER_00]: cargo and gift-sending kind of die-down, people had a need to send money back to Vietnam.
5:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's when my family started offering the remittance business, but we were doing it all unlicensed, unlicensed, right?
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And then,
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We finally became licensed, and we actually became the first Vietnamese money transfer business to become licensed in the state of California to begin offering remittance services to Vietnam for the community.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That was in 1998.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So how did you do it before 1998?
5:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was all done through the banking system.
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really?
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was unlicensed.
5:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we would deposit, pick people's funds cash, deposit into the bank, and then wire it to a bank in Vietnam.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But every money transmitter has to be licensed.
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: by the Department of Financial Institutions at the time.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: When they came down, they cracked down on the community here.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, you guys aren't licensed.
6:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, we don't know where it's supposed to be licensed, right?
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, nobody had told us we need to be licensed.
6:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then my dad, because of his friends and connections in the Vietnamese community, did a campaign to like,
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: gather like signatures, support, letters of support from, you know, then elected councilman like Tony Lamb, we have leaders of like religions, leaders of like veterans groups, our own customers, we brought up to the Department of Anthem's institution, the commissioner, we had like eight boxes of like petition signatures for our community and we said,
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to do this the right way.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We never knew we needed to be licensed.
7:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Please help us become licensed so that we can do this the right way.
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And the commission, I'm really touched by your work.
7:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to help you guys.
7:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So, she helps us become the first Vietnamese licensed Vietnamese money transmitter in the United States.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you explain why you need a license?
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Why does the United States, I mean, other in the opposite to London money, but I mean, why do you need to be licensed?
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's highly, highly regulated in this industry.
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just like any other bank.
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We're licensed by the same department, with the same regulations, policies, and so they need to just ensure
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: that we're following all the laws regarding bank secrecy act, regarding the anti-Money laundering laws and regulations in the United States.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So each state has their own regulatory department or agency that licenses these type of businesses.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you have to give a cut to the U.S. government?
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Never until now, last year, funny you asked that, for the first time in history, we have to pay a 1% tax to the United States government, and that's because
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: President Donald J. Trump through the one big, beautiful bill is making all money transmitters now pay a 1% tax to the United States government.
8:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you have to like, I don't know what the percentage has been.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to add another percent to.
8:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically we have to
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: pass it on to our customers, which has caused volume to decrease significantly because of that 1%.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the 1% is only on cash transactions.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the Vietnamese community are cash transaction.
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't apply that tax to the big corporations who are doing electronic transactions.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, and this is some commentary.
9:18
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, it's a tax on minority and lower income for communities.
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, using this tax to really pay off or offset some of the tax cuts for the rich go Trump.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a little political commentary for you.
9:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like most of people that use your services, Trump voters Trump supporters.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, that's a frustrating thing.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you know, my dad is a Trump supporter.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to comprehend sometimes, and I think a lot of the things that we voted for in our community are actually backfiring, like social security, health care, health care, it's all being yanked.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, literally my mom is on her, whatever Medicare program, whatever, it's all being yanked.
10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Can, like, we are here because we're an immigrant and a refugee community.
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And now a large portion of our community is advocating against immigration and helping of refugees.
10:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's mind boggling, the irony.
10:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's one of those things, right?
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you and I, we made it in the club, right?
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We were the doors, like we made it through the doors.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're gonna shut the doors, lock it.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't want anybody else to kind of like come near,
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, now we're getting, you know, kind of side-track, but it's good to touch on.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the argument is always, we're here legally.
10:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We are legal immigrants, we're just for like,
10:59
[SPEAKER_00]: those who are here illegally.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you really think about it.
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody left who left on a boat, left illegally.
11:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We left illegally.
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: When my family left on a boat, we were a shard at Chase and shard out by communist patrol boats for a whole day.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely, if it wasn't for the grace,
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, of the United States, the good will of good people who allowed us in, even though we weren't illegal.
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: How can we, wouldn't be here today?
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's frustrating, it's hurtful to see some of the reaction from part of our community towards, you know, new immigrants and refugees.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So ever since I could process this idea of sending money back to Vietnam from the United States and you know, as you get older, you start to, you start to really think and question things like, if the money was going back to a place where there was an embargo,
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And the money was going one way, then the people on that country had to have been doing very well with the money that was, I mean, they're not becoming rich, but maybe, but the money did flow one way, if flowed from the United States, Vietnamese Americans, to many of the Vietnamese families that were behind the love, were left behind.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And a thousand questions that I'd been having
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we probably through remittance created this.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: reconciliation space.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: This we created room for the ability for Vietnamese Americans to eventually go back to Vietnam, right?
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually have sort of some goodwill of from all the people that were in Vietnam.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe I'm simplifying it, but can you help me explain?
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you help me understand by explaining sort of the money that went back?
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, became of our energy and our efforts to the Vietnamese government, to the people in Vietnam as they were getting all this money.
13:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what it does is it lifted a lot of people's lives and it definitely helped Vietnam improved economically by adding to the GDP
13:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my family alone in the last 30, 40 years, we've spent over $10 billion to the country, and annually now, I think the numbers anywhere between, like,
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: 12 and 14 billion annually from the overseas Vietnamese community.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a huge challenge to add to a nation's, especially a development of nation like Vietnam, to their GDP.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in that sense, I think it does help the country and the people improve economically.
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if you put that into some framework, I mean, this is like on the order of multiple industries, like $2 billion a year in remittances, like, you know, we're talking about like the early days of creating shoes or garment, like in a whole industrial sector is this kind of money.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a huge amount of money that's being generated from Vietnamese overseas.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the Vietnamese government lately,
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: has, I don't know if they're recognizing our contribution to Vietnam, but the language that they use is often very soft when it says, come back, we welcome you.
15:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and they have had, uh,
15:16
[SPEAKER_00]: policies to try to get the overseas Vietnamese community to reconcile with them, to come back, to contribute.
15:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think where the Vietnamese community here stands is reconciliation.
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, can't be a one-way street.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: that you can't just say, hey, come back and contribute to the country without recognizing some of the pains that you have caused this community.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where in the future, if there's any effective communication that is going to take place, that it needs to be a bilateral way of looking at it.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, our culture is not bilateral.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Period, our culture is that we don't play by bilateral rules.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't be between dad and son.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it should be, and I see some of your podcasts that way you raised your kids is bilateral, right?
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the same with how I am with my kids and my family.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So just because, you know, it hasn't been that way in previous generations, doesn't mean we can't adapt what we've learned to try to, you know, better ourselves.
16:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And our community and our people, yeah.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, I agree, wholeheartedly.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: In the early days when Ploughfock was around, what did you do for the business?
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, like I was telling the kid that Demil, Demil is the first Vietnamese dual-language immersion school in this area, and there's an elementary school.
16:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's elementary school, and I went to that school before the Vietnamese program.
16:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: At that time, my parents owned a money transfer cargo shipping and the owner supermarket right here.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I would, three or four, two or three days a week.
17:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I would go with my parents in their box truck up to LA, the produce market by fresh vegetables.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'd leave at three or four a.m. in the morning.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: because they open up that early, right?
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll come back and on the way back, they would drop me off at Demo's school in the box truck to go to school.
17:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wake up at like three o'clock in the morning and then after school,
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I would go to the market and work.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would work in the fist apartment.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when there's no work in the fist apartment, I would go with to the fabric side and all the eye.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, like, the images or cars of a man or like yards of fabrics of that, you know, you can sell it.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Sell it and box it so that people can send it home and stuff.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's what I did in my early days.
18:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I started working on Bolsa here at the third or fourth grade.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after that, I just after college I took over the family business with my sister and we've been doing it ever since.
18:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Did UVSA, that festival is here, and then you NASA, I don't know if you heard of you NASA, the National College students, and then after that, did some community work, political work, and still doing all that.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, community and elected office and the family business right now.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who is deeply involved in the community in Los Aguante here and really grew up with the community here.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: and understanding the post-in Vietnam and seeing the recent influx of Vietnamese students from Vietnam and Zuhok Singh or, you know, just citizens that are bringing money over, I mean, it's shifting the community here in Lusaghan.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Also early on, I think anyone who spoke with a Northern accent is view kind of, you know, stay away from there.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Very specific to the accent though.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the 54 or one.
19:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that mean by the 54 accent?
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And they would be shunned, you know, they would be criticized some of the times, even Julie, why do them, right?
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think now, people are more accepting of it.
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no propaganda going on as long as you don't carry a communist flag or have some kind of outwardly gesture to offend the community, then for the most part, I think the community is very accepting now of all those people, especially like students.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I have seen like a major shift.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, when you go, when you go to like places like a foster shop or boba, a shop or, you know, you're eating at the restaurants and the young servers, speaking for fake Northern, Hanoi and Vietnamese, you know, almost all the young people that work in all the restaurants around here are from Vietnam, like students, foreigners, students, uh, because one, uh, they can speak the language, most of the kids brought up here.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not broken.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my kids, you're not kids, but I'm broken or non-existent.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard for them to work in this community.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So most of the kids you see here are those students.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're getting probably paid under the table and, you know, and that helps with everybody's lives.
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so that change in demographic though, I think,
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: really alters the overall sentiments of our relationship with Vietnam and reconciliation and all of this stuff or no.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it, does it really affected?
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it has, it has greatly, uh, tone down.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: the hate.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You see in recent, I don't know if you follow like the whole issue with the Vitt Rise group, where they had a picnic to talk about Ho Chi Minh, August Revolution and stuff, and it really offended the community that they gave credit for the
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: independence of Vietnam, two Ho Chi Minh and the Vietnamese, and from their point of view, they were just talking about history, right?
21:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But you see a lot of young people,
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: wanting to learn about their culture, their history and which is a good thing.
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the important thing for us as, you know, older community members is, you know, especially because we have a history with with the South that they understand the full picture of history.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's right that
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: and really play the red-baiting game and call them Communists and all that.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That's absolutely not right.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: What we should do is engage our youth and try to convince them intellectually through
22:46
[SPEAKER_00]: our cause and the true history of our people.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully when we do that, we're to convince the youth about what truly happened to our people in history.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes, it's on my mind a lot.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I really appreciate the work that you guys did with all the history, with Professor Kevin Fab, like really presenting history in an impartial way so that young people, just people in general can come to their own conclusions about what happened to our people.
23:28
[SPEAKER_00]: in the 20th century, because we went through a lot in the last century.
23:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We think about it, you know, colonialism, and then, you know, there was years of starvation.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Japanese take over, you know, the fight for independence, the struggle for independence from the entire Vietnamese people, not just of it, men, right, like there were many different groups.
23:53
[SPEAKER_00]: That's you guys pointed out.
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we went through areas of assassinations and suppression of Niemann Yeffatung, like intellectuals of people who wanted to modernize the country, then we went through like this division in our country, and then the 20 years of civil war,
24:12
[SPEAKER_00]: and then both people, the re-education camp and then a whole community diaspora like trying to lift themselves from this war and rebuild their community, their families, all around the world.
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So like when you think about it, how people went through trauma?
24:31
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot in the last century.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see any other people in this room when you compare the vast,
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: the entire 20th century, I don't think any people went through as much as the Vietnamese people did.
24:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we kind of recognize that and see what is our role in the future, and what can we do in the future, in this long arc of what is the Vietnamese history, you know?
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Ironically,
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, Tracy La, uh, from Viet Rise was going to be right after you today.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the irony of this, and shameless plug, but we will be having a Tracy from Viet Rice coming to talk about the stuff that I think she's making a run for some political seats here in Orange County and I'd love to have a conversation about her.
25:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole thing with Ho Chi Minh, and I'm curious to see how that all played out.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I have to say Viet Rice is composed of a bunch of passionate,
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Young people who do great work have a lot of heart for this community and their people and they only want to do good And so I I think a lot of the controversy You know really pain them in in a negative light like And it's it's not right yeah, and calling people calm in is I Think it's like it's it's a lot now.
26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: it's like when you bump up against something that's tough and you don't want to argue with somebody you just go to communism.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that doesn't work.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not working anymore.
26:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time too, the criticism is not unwanted.
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: On mostly tracing, I have to trace it as many times.
26:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you don't mean what you think they are criticizing you,
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Then clarify your stance.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what Hurt is not.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to talk about her or she's too much.
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think some of the criticism were warranted.
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's up to her to kind of rectify that with the community.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: If not, then it's really affecting the great work that the other use are doing.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we think about,
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: clarifying or communicating and all of this stuff, I think about reconciliation.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The big bad R word.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a bad word.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always been a taboo word that nobody wants to touch.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You touch on the R word.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You call it a communist.
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Your a communist sympathizer.
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's never been really accepted to talk about it.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's time for us to
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: talking about.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We really have that conversation, you know, after 50 years, and you know, the community or some of the staunchly anti-communist people would say, when I was talking about reconciling without people, there's nothing to reconcile with our people about, it's not reconciling with the government, the political dominance.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not we we as a people you just view if we just view them that ominous and they just view us as Nice for you know, you know or in their views traders traders Wouldn't ever gonna be able to heal from this war Even 50 years later and what's the result of that when we can't heal and move forward together as a people
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you have like a lot of instances, you know, life, Tracy, it rides that like you, you present history in a non, in a manner that is not comprehensive, that is one side it, and it opens up the wounds and people can never really heal.
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think our next chapter, the community and the people
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we know why it's been a big bad word.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we know that a lot of our parents and their generation, they don't want to open that up.
29:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it takes a lot of energy psychic energy to really figure that out.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But for us, we're in our 50s, how do we begin to establish, maybe not going all in on reconciliation, but where do we start?
29:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I find it really odd that our seniors, my dad, your dad, people who have fought in the war and their generation, I couldn't understand why they would not want to talk about reconciliation.
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Because as it stands right now, in the history books,
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: has been written off, has been left out.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: All the use in Vietnam, known about Northern history, and then, you know, some of the traders.
30:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So then traders, you know, they, they, you see it on social media in, in their, in their books on history, stuff like, like, we're the traders, right?
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We,
30:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you see, you know, American history books that, for the most part, generally, paint South Vietnam as corrupt as incompetent, you know, and whatnot.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So the legitimacy of the cause that our parents were fighting for, which is real, need to be acknowledged throughout history and not just forgotten, right?
30:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that could only be done, not only be done, but just simply not
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: rely on historians to document it relies on the work of like these like like truth commissions to document a agreed upon on facts that are acknowledged from both sides and and and and when there are when when when we look at history through a lens of like you know facts that are acknowledged from both sides
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we could truly understand what the other signs views are, see their pains too, and really try to understand and heal and heal the wounds of the past.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think only then can we move forward.
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it so hard?
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's my example.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We know comfort women of China, or Korea, or Japan, or Vietnam, all these comfort women that we're used during wars, these countries take so long to apologize on behalf of their countries that do this to the women who are captured.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And why does it take so long for governments
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And what are we really losing when the other side, when the communist government right now and the Vietnamese can come together in a truth commission?
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we all losing?
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We're nothing to lose, but to gain.
32:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's a great question.
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some people might lose pride.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: if they don't, if the other side is a zero or some gain to them, like if the other side isn't totally at fault, then we're not winning.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And with the other side with the communist government, they really don't need to reconcile if they can, they could go on doing whatever they've done the last 50 years.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They can have policies like in the week 23 recently, where is in their policy to try to get the Vietnamese community to the diaspora to come back and contribute and stuff, but they face a lot of backlash still.
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it would be whoove them to have
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: a more bilateral form of engagement and reconciliation, rather than just say, oh, come back and support now.
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a bit of me used this for get about the past, you know, let's do it together and, you know, no, no, you have to address
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: the pain and the wounds that are still there and I think it would benefit both Vietnam and the diaspora if there is some kind of truth commission that can help our people heal.
34:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You went back to school in 2005.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: in San Diego to get a master's degree in this very thing that we're discussing right now.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about the vision that you had and why you took the time to study this and now what?
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I first learned of truth commissions when I was just thinking about, you know, these, I have these thoughts about like my people.
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I always wonder like,
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Why am I taught to hate my country?
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up thinking, why am I taught to hate Vietnam?
34:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I learned, oh, it's government, war atrocities and whatnot.
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But...
34:46
[SPEAKER_00]: When you put on a thinking cap of like, how do I fix this?
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not learning about how people heal after national conflicts, civil wars, I learned of truth commissions.
35:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I've peace and justice work.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm looking online like, where are I learn about peace and justice?
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, the University of San Diego, it is one and a half hours away, just opened up a school of peace studies where they offered a masters in peace and justice.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, that's where I need to be.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a Catholic University, right?
35:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's a Catholic University.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I applied, got in, and for a whole year we studied basically truth commission and peace justice reconciliation.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we did was we looked at all these conflicts in the last 50 years.
35:50
[SPEAKER_00]: and how did those people reconcile with each other?
35:53
[SPEAKER_00]: How were these people able to heal post-civil war?
35:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Post-civil conflicts?
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really primarily the work of these independent truth commissions that were formed.
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was wondering,
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not Vietnam?
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Why has Vietnam never had this before?
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Which goes into the point, like we were making earlier that either we didn't know about it or we didn't want it.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: There was taboo to talk about reconciliation.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at what our people went through, not to trivialize what we went through at all, right?
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We went through a lot of crap.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at, like, apartheid in South Africa, when you look at a genocide in Rwanda, when you look at, you know, Muslims, Christians, and Muslims, Christians, Catholics, and ethnic people in Yugoslavia, when you look at, you know, conflicts in Guatemala,
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of these conflicts, their people went through a lot too.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we're one million people got murdered, right?
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Genocide, but they were able, the who-toes in the two seas were able to sit down together, each side spoke about their pains and suffering.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: There were acknowledgment of false that were done.
37:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really allowed
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, rewondens to come together and and and and and close that chapter in their history now move on together as people so so I hope that you know one day and actually wrote my thesis on a truth and reconciliation commission for Vietnam of course I still haven't done it up for a year on all I hope one day yeah let me let me put it to you right now
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I give you the phone number to the embassy or I give you the phone number to somebody who's wanting to do this.
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I do it right away.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They call you, you call them, what happens after that?
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I, and they're like, hey, we would love to have a brain trust from the United States Vietnamese that they ask for.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you get with us the Vietnamese government to create a truth commission?
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this really work?
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, we need the backing of the United States government.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to have your efforts.
38:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, I think, you know, now the United States government has done a lot for the Vietnamese people, right?
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me side track a little bit.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell you guys how to tell you a little bit about the seat that I'm sitting in right now.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: in the coast district board.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sitting in the seat of a gentleman named Jerry Patterson, who cast away Zabby two days after I got elected.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 92 years old.
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: The Jerry Patterson was the congressman of Little Saigon, the first congressman of Little Saigon from 75 to 85.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a congressman, and he in 1980, in Congress helped pass the US refugee act of 1980.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone credits President Carter rightfully so, but it was the hard work of Jerry Patterson in the house and then in the Senate it was authored by Senator Ted Kennedy and none other than Joe Biden.
39:35
[SPEAKER_00]: who crafted this policy, pushed it, passed it, for President Carter's design.
39:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So the United States government had a major role in allowing Vietnamese refugees to come to the United States including my family.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But we also need to recognize that the United States was,
39:58
[SPEAKER_00]: was effectively one of the main reasons why South Vietnam fell, right?
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to me, there are things that the Vietnamese people will always be connected to the United States government about, like with the war, what better opportunity for the United States government
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: because of their abdominal theory, because of their involvement in the war, because of a lot of their work that resulted in the diaspora being all over the world right now.
40:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What better opportunity would be for than if the United States would need these efforts and help the Vietnamese diaspora reconcile.
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it has to be, it would be great if it would be US-led and secondly, it would need to have backing from the United Nations to add legitimacy and obviously the work of intellectuals, historians, victims from both sides to really paint the true and full story about what happened.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: on South Vietnam, but we also need to understand that there were a lot of out people who are fighting for the North, who are fighting for independence, right?
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't care about communism, okay, but they also suffered.
41:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Those families also suffered.
41:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of my family's
41:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so complicated, right?
41:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But the work in itself, I think really needs to capture what our people really went through throughout the war and then help us.
42:02
[SPEAKER_00]: acknowledge the truth and pains in both sides so we can.
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would anybody do this?
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would you and the hand?
42:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Cheese and charge in Vietnam.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: He hits you up.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys, she.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He hits you up.
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you guys work together.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would anybody follow suit with them or you?
42:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Vietnamese diaspora has proven
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: fields, you know, technology, space art, you know, sports that we have been able to be successful in a lot of different fields.
42:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And the commonest government is always through their policy.
42:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always looking for opportunities for this community to come back in contribute.
42:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But for a lot of people, they're just not ready when these wounds that chapter has not fully closed yet.
43:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we through the work of these truth commissions are able to finally close that chapter in our people's history,
43:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It would greatly benefit their country, their government, by allowing a lot of people to come back and contribute it in an open way, and then this community, I think.
43:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it can finally allow us a lot of people who fought in the war were victims of the atrocities to really have their stories be acknowledged, be legitimized in history, so that it's never forgotten.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that they can truly heal from the wounds.
43:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's beneficial for me.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I see.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a win-win, but then why would Vietnam do it?
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to say like like the influx of you know opportunities that the diaspora could bring back economically would and and also.
44:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't underestimate, too, when the diaspora is always criticizing and lobbying whatever governments are in, US, Asia, EU, Vietnam is, you know, this and that about human rights and stuff, it paints a bad light into them.
44:24
[SPEAKER_00]: on that government, and so, you know, when there's healing that happens, you know, we're able to to to to to to mend these wounds then, you know, they they they they they they they'll feel like they they they they constant they won't have like a constant thorn in their side, you know, so it in a way could legitimize more, um, their government.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: When I think about the remittance dollars that your family brought in, I think about it inching reconciliation in its own organic way possible.
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any empirical data or any anecdotal sort of ideas about the money that was sent being sort of a tool of reconciliation over the last 50 years?
45:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've never looked at it as, you know, we metinuses being a tool of reconciliation, but I guess it could be viewed that way because, you know, in a sense, you know, when you're lifting your family out of poverty, then their standard of living is improved.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not constantly thinking about all the past atrocities and all that and it can help them reconcile with the past.
45:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think overall, I think remittances have played a huge role in helping the people, not the government, helping the people have a better standard of living.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of standard living, you've been back to Vietnam I'm assuming, what's last trip?
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: When was last trip and how was it like for you?
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was able to take my kids for the first time, my three kids, 18, 16 and 12 years old to Vietnam.
46:29
[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to say, Dad, I'm only 11 and half.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I know that her and me a little over her.
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But my three kids to Vietnam for the first time this last summer, this summer.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And just a few weeks ago.
46:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were able,
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: to light incense and pray in the back of our village where their answers stood grew up.
46:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We were able to pray at the tune of their great great great grandma of my great great grandparents of many members in my family.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I think about it,
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so surreal that, you know, my kids have an opportunity to learn about the history of our family, and then teachers travel their country and learn about their people, their culture, and it was just...
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: a very nice trip now.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, as one of the board trustees of Coast Colleges, what is your duties or sensibilities?
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you affect change in our community?
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're an elected official.
47:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so people really don't think about college districts, and it call it trusty the lot.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you would think about, like, council members, mayors, whatever, but kiss to give you an example, like the budget for the city of Westminster, I think it's like 90 million.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: City of Foundallia is like, you know, 60 million, 60 something million.
48:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The budget for coast district is like almost 300 million huge, right huge.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and,
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have 25% of our student population are Vietnamese.
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've never had a Vietnamese trustee.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never had an Asian trustee.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't, we've never had a border trustee's member that is even a minority.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
48:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, are you the first one?
48:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
48:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean,
48:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say Asian, there's been other minority, but Asian, or Vietnamese, not for non- Vietnamese.
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So, in that role, first thing I've done when I got on is that I propose to have like a Vietnamese-American experience of course.
49:01
[SPEAKER_00]: which is allowing students from not only college or colleges, but high school students to be able to take online these ethnic studies courses, which satisfies their ethnic studies requirement in high school in order to graduate.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And it gives them college credit.
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But the most important thing is it allows
49:25
[SPEAKER_00]: the young Vietnamese people to learn about the history of our people and and why we're here.
49:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So so that's the first thing I did.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes two years for a course to get past and stuff.
49:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm hoping in the fall of 2007, we're going to be able to launch that course.
49:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And then aside from affecting curriculum,
49:51
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things that the district can do for the community.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, we just brought that festival back to Golden West College last year.
50:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So that festival that I used to run in the community.
50:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I had Golden West.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now at Golden West.
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then stuff like the recent chemical power lead or chemical gas leak.
50:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We opened our college and allowed batteries to stay there.
50:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of things that the colleges do to support the community.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad to hear that you're on that board of trustees there.
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there any future plans of you and to politicians?
50:38
[SPEAKER_00]: to be determined, but it always means yes, people.
50:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, I am completely happy in my role and the difference that I'm making.
50:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't see anything in the future.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do we keep needing to have remittance services?
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: What about bank transfers from our bank now, Apple Pay, or why do we need to have remittance?
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's probably one of the reasons why the family business will,
51:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not be around on five years.
51:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just brick and mortar remittance companies are dying off, one of the last remaining ones.
51:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We went from one of the first ones to that one of the last remaining ones.
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Simply because everything is electronic now.
51:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you do electronically, they don't pay for the Trump tax, what's what I call.
51:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And whereas brick and mortar stores, cash stores, like ours, not only do we have to pay for the tax,
51:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not as convenient, right?
51:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But we do have a pocket, and I was a customer, is that we still service.
51:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we still have that customer base, and that's why we're still in business.
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But to your point, this type of business will probably not be around in five, seven years.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: In five or seven years, or 25 or 27 years, would you ever consider retiring in Vietnam, or is it always going to be here in the US?
52:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this with my wife the other day.
52:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I can never live in Vietnam.
52:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Home is fat and valley.
52:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in this area since I was like four years old.
52:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is home.
52:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But I always love to travel and visit Vietnam.
52:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think to us, home is America.
52:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Full it has been 30 years easily since we first met and I hope that this is I told all my guests that come on that whenever you have updates in the community here looks like on or even policy changes in Vietnam that affects Vietnamese American diaspora and you want to come and talk about it.
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: this is the platform to do it because now that we have established who you are and you know we're talking about these things that affect Vietnam and Vietnamese Americans together I want to hear more about it and more from you.
53:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely and hopefully sometime in the future we can come out and talk about like the work of the truth commission.
53:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when are you hopefully right off?
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think anybody who wants to push full in that direction please leave a comment and Thank you so much for coming on today, fool.
53:26
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
53:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the opportunity.
53:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
53:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's yeah.
53:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you
53:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to The Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
53:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at The Vietnamese Podcast.