Latest / Beyond The Beacon / Addiction stole his big league career but sobriety gave him a new life

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Addiction stole his big league career but sobriety gave him a new life · Beyond The Beacon

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beyond the Weekend with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast in the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Join us for weekly conversations about our Catholic faith, and together let's strive to live a life of faith, hope, and love.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jay Agnish.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Bishop Kevin, how are you?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Jay.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing well.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's good to see you again.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We were both away for a little bit.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where where were you?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: At the uh USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Spring meeting, they call it in uh in Louisville.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was this year and the week before uh well last week.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um a nice opportunity to be with all the bishops of the country.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And was it as hot there as it is now in New Jersey?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the hotel most of the time.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh but we were out got out a little bit in the evening, and uh it was warm, but nothing crazy.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a little warmer here now.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I like the warm weather.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's fine by me.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Montreal with my wife for a few days.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I have to say it was uh quite an awesome uh trip.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: We got to go to, I know you you've been to St.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Joseph's Oratory.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was quite an experience.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I recommend Montreal to anything.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Montreal is beautiful.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had resisted it for many years.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I was like, oh, those are Snobby French.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you play the National League?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when the Oh Expos.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: We played Montreal Expos.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Rusty Stabb was he?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Rusty Staub was there, and uh I remember the coach uh he called my name out.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Mike, he was a coach that at the time for uh one of the coaches for Montreal, Larry Dobie.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Larry Oh from Patterson.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Mike Jackson, Al Dover, and we introduced ourselves and we talked a little bit, you know.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So so uh our guests today are Michael Jackson, uh is a recently retired counselor with Straight and Narrow of Catholic charities and a former professional baseball player with an inspiring story of struggle and rebirth.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Angela Nicol I'm sorry, Angela, how do you say you'll have to.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, sorry about that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Angela's been at Straight and Narrow for nine years uh and was appointed executive director of the agency in 2019, just in time, six weeks uh after the six weeks into the COVID pandemic, I guess?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_05: No, it was six weeks later after my appointment we uh experienced the fire at 410 Strait Street when we lost the facility.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, that was 2019.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: August 24, 2019.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: And now we'll be talking about the great ground break loose when you want to go.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So Straight and Narrow is, of course, its headquarters in Patterson.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was in founded in 1954 as a treatment program for male alcoholics and has since evolved into a premier pace-setting comprehensive social service health care and community development agency.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we have the first residential treatment facility in the country, is that right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: We were the first, and we are one of the largest still.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: We just had the Catholic Charities golf outing on uh this past Monday, and uh our Catholic Charities with Straight and Narrow, uh DPD, Department of Persons with Disabilities and Family Services.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are blessed here in Patterson uh in our diocese with uh leaders like Angela and Michael and Scott Milliken, our CEO, and Father Glynn, our um head of the board, and uh so many wonderful leaders.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it was great to see everyone together on a warm day on Monday, but a beautiful day at uh Crystal Springs.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was a beautiful event.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, it was great.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Bishop, and thank you, Jay, for having us here today.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming in.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I'm excited to get started.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't we uh begin with prayer?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Give it a prayer, sure.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: We'll place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Giving thanks to God for the gifts and blessings of every day, the gift of this day, the gift of this opportunity to be together.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: In thanksgiving for people of goodness and generosity and love who reach out to others and in thanksgiving also for the gifts of healing.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: For those, especially we pray for those who might be struggling at this time, that they would know that there's hope that with God all things are possible.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And as we remember those who have asked for our prayers, those we've promised to pray for, and those who are most in need of prayer, we join our prayers together as one as we pray, as Jesus Himself has taught us.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um why don't we start with um Mike?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know you uh we've shared your story in our newspaper, in the in the Beacon newspaper, it's it's been in the media, it's a very inspiring story.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the the idea of rebirth, kind we were talking before, it kind of never gets old, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's um can you can you tell us uh your story?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe start with I know you grew up in Patterson and how you wound up making it to the big leagues and what happened after that?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my story isn't that unique.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't look at it as being unique.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, I grew up.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Making the big leagues is unique, I would say.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up in Patterson, New Jersey, born and raised at the Barnett Hospital.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh raised in Brooksloat Terrace, you know, and um all through my young years, my mom passed when I was 15 years old.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was a sophomore in high school at Central High School.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: But my passion was sports, really.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And um when football season came around, we played football.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: When the baseball season came around, we played baseball.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: When basketball came around, we played basketball up there in Brook Slope.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we have something in common.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and see, but I was I was also uh I I realized later later on that I was also uh angry child, you know, as a teenager, you know, even though in Brook Slope uh we had a lot of firemen, policemen, you know, it was pretty real rounded, you know, and I I had a lot of support, you know, up there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: However, you know, I got into this gang they call ourselves the Bolocks, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we rule one side of the project, some other people were the other side.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: But if you come in, you're not from Brooks Louis, you know, you get tied against a pole, you get beat in the chest or something like that, you know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, uh my thing was uh baseball, you know, I had uh, God bless me, with the tools and all all those sports, you know, and uh I was a good hitter, very good hitter.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um I started working on it, and then one of the policemen saw me, McSherry.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And um he said, uh Mike, why don't you uh join our little league team?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Which I did as a you know, a pitcher.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I joined a little league team, you know, and we played little league ball up here in Patterson, Little League, uh Pennington Park, Westside Park, and places like that, you know.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it would be nothing for me to go in there game and pitch, you know, uh as a little league, you only pitch three innings.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it was nothing to go in there and and walk three guys, walk the bases loaded, and strike out the game.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: I threw very hard.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: I threw hard.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So how hard were you throwing in?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you and at this point?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh geez, I had to be about maybe twelve, maybe.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have the sophisticated radar guns then that any any idea like how far ahead he might have been throwing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: All I all I know is that uh I remember uh in the monoliths, I know a guy named uh Hal King was a catcher.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: I remember um Spring Training when Spring, because I threw hard and he would say, Man, what happened to Mike's arm?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: He threw real hard, very hard.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it wasn't nothing for me to strike out 14, 15 guys, things like that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, even in high school, when I went to high school, I still carried on, and then I was on the Var City team in high school, you know, pitching, and I was always a good hitter, you know.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes uh I pitch hit, you know, and I remember one game in high school, I think it was against Nutley, I struck out 22 batters.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh but my aspiration was to become a major league ball player.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you got drafted out of high school?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And did you say you set a record for scoreless innings?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: That was in uh Omaha in in the AAA ball in uh 1972 before I got called up the Kansas City Royals.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I had set the uh triple A or American Association record for most consecutive scoreless innings pitched.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um you were a little before George Brett, right, I guess?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Frank White, Freddie Partek, though before uh well no Parteck, I played with him in Kansas City.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Willie Wilson came later.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: That was later.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: That was later.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: But uh Amos Otis was on the case.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Amos Otis, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um Lou Piniella.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um Hal McRae?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hal McRae.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Lou Piniella, we were talking before my favorite would play McCray.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um John Mayberry.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: John Mayberry, sure.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Freddie Pot's, uh Paul Shaw.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh Dick Drago pitcher, Paul Splitorf.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was the group that would become really good in the late 70s.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um Paul Splitoff, yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then uh how many years with the Royals?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: One and a half.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then St.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Louis?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: St.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Louis, that was before uh that was in 71.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: That was in 71 because I can tell you some stories, uh, well not yeah, stories on what transpired uh with the Phillies.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and and I carried a lot of hurt in my heart because of what I what had happened.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I know I had made a big load, you know, in spring training.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we're packing to go north You know, to Philly.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: That was the first year I opened up stadium for everything.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um today we're we're breaking camp packing our bags and I got called to the manager's office and the manager tells me, Well, we sold your contract to Hawaii.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Hawaii.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful place.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wait, what do you want Hawaii?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful place.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Not the big leagues, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I was hurt.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was really, really hurt, really, really, really hurt.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um And would you say uh um uh uh uh substance abuse eventually became an issue, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Was w when when did that start?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Was that started um I would say it was a little bit of it in the uh military, but nowhere near as much because just before that, that was in 71, I think it was, or 70.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: But just before that, in 69 in the Boston chain, because the year before, Boston and Philly didn't protect me on the Major League roster.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: So Boston hurried up and grabbed me.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: But in 69, I made the big club.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: I actually made the big club in spring training.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Red Sox?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: And um we're breaking camp, packing our bags to go north.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Dick Williams was the manager that calls me in his office.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: He says, Well my um, I got a good spring and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't like guys jumping from A ball to the big leagues.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna send you down to Louisville.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: That was a triple-A club internationally.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hurt again.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And at that time, um, guys on the club was, you know, Reddy Smith, uh, who I was very close with, uh, Carious Dremski, George Scott.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: George Scott, yeah, it was.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was close with all of them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: They called me the kid then, because I looked so much I looked like I was about 14, 15 years old.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I threw hard, you know, and I I made the club.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then with Philly, it was the same thing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Again, it happened again.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I don't forget things like that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you never forget.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: You forget, but you don't forget.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, what was happening?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they were passing you up for a shot at the big leagues?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew I And you knew you were good enough to make it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: I made the club.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: I felt as though I made the club.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're we, you know, why we're we're packing to go north to start the season.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Then you go call me in the office and tell me that we're gonna send me the triple because I jumped from the R.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting resentments on these teams and your and your coping mechanism becomes substance abuse then?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, not not at that time.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I go to Louisville and uh they say, like he said, we jump off to a good start.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, we'll call you up.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they weren't doing that well in '69 anyway, Boston, and um, I jump into a good, you know, I jumped start doing very well in Louisville Triple A ball.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I remember we're playing up in Buffalo, and uh our farm assistant farm director comes down, of course, you know, uh anyway.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sitting in the dugout, and he he says, Well, Mike, um, you know, you guys are going real good here.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you may have a chance to win the league and you're doing pitching well.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: He said, So as opposed to calling you up from here, we're gonna call up Bill Lee from Pittsfield, the double-A Club.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Slap me in the face.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Again.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So That was the beginning of the career of the spaceman, right, Bill Lee?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: That that that also hurt, you know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um But you did get called up?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: I got called up in seven uh in 71.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you had some success, yeah.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: I went I went to the St.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Louis Cardinals.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh on loan, as they called it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, but I forget exactly when it happened, but it was before I got called up.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's when that's when the drinking really started.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm I'm in the big leagues with with the Cardinals, and you know, um talking with Bob Gibson and Lou Brock.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Did you play with Gibson?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and um uh uh Tim McCarver and all the rest of them, you know, you know some big names.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, and and I did well, but one night uh at the Motel Stena, they had a party, and what do I do?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I go to the party, get blasted, and uh go back to my room and next thing I know.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Next morning I wake up and uh I'm in the training room about my back hurting and everything, and they sent me back to the Kansas City Royals.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So And then um your your career comes to an end, then there's the the struggles become worse, is that right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: The struggles came uh I wouldn't say as bad, but uh it it it accelerated uh I think it is it accelerated more so in 73 because um you know in addiction we blame a lot of things on something else's as opposed to our bad decisions.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: But in 72, you know, here I I set the record, but when I got called up, you know, I'm a starting pitcher.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: I never was in a bullpen, but they put me in a bullpen and blah blah um, you know.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And uh my arm just wasn't with that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, when they when I started the game, like the second game with a doubleheader, the manager was uh uh for the manager at that time was uh Bob uh I forget his name.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so I I beat the Yankees uh in the second game with a doubleheader over in Yankee Stadium, the old Yankee Stadium five to one.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh something happened uh and the next day uh when they dug out, next thing you know, I started sweating and all this, and my tongue started swelling in my mouth, they rushed me to the hospital.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I I forget what they said.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I never did find out what really transpired.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And um they had already left for Milwaukee to play the brewers.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And um when I got in the hospital, went to the airport at the club in Milwaukee, and at that time, uh my homeboy was also playing for Brewers at that time, John Briggs.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and um I started a game in Milwaukee.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was wild, you know, through still we still had the power of pitching, you know, as far as throwing hard.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I was wild and um took me out of the game.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: And um as the story goes, you know, uh that was that.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Except for then I I remember still up there in Milwaukee.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: It became I came in relief uh in a game, and uh the bases were loaded, and I got a 3-2 counter on the battery and threw him a 3-2 slider and struck him out.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well man your control was back.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, through a three-two slider.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we just go towards uh I know uh before we were talking about you um you ended up in in bad shape, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um and you said uh you uh were with some guys and you said you're not gonna see me for a while um because you were starting to think that you had to turn things around.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you said then you went in the hospital and you were feeling you were able to take in food and feeling better.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and um you were about to say you were going for a job interview, you and then somebody came into your life, was it a nurse that said to give it a try?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was that was your introduction.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: I believe it was Phyllis Anderson.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: See, why don't you give it a shot?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Was that your introduction to Straight and Arrow?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I was I was in Straight Narrow's detox.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, when you're about to leave.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was about to leave, because you know, after four or five days, you know, all of those stuff feeling good, you know, down the bike.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so my excuse was uh uh I got a job interview.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I um she said, Talk me, why don't you give it a shot?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: Give it a shot.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: I had everything to gain and not lose.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the spirit talked to me like God saying, stay here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: I stayed, and uh, and I don't regret it, you know.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was I was the type of person I didn't talk very much, I never did talk very much.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, of course it's uh word I got on that I used to play professional ball, you know, straighten out that time.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: We had a softball team.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: We had a good team too.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um I stayed in treatment and um did well.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then when did when did you start as as a counselor?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: What I started counseling.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: What happened after I see I went I went in the I I went into the program in December of 86.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I graduated in July of 87.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And uh at that time, you know, they had the adolescent program.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And uh when I had graduated, I said, oh man, I lost my license.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh now I gotta get my driver's license back.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: So what happens?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: I uh you know, and uh I go to motor vehicle, and they had no record of anything.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: They say, oh you gotta the uh what is it, the BAC pay a little fine, and that was it, got my license back and started driving the recycling truck, and then um with the adolescent program, I don't know, Sam Perosi, who's very instrumental in my recovery Hammond and quite a few others, Andrew Zika and all that, and uh Pat Kelly.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: You were talking about earlier some of the um activities, programs, and the sense of community there at straight and narrow, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of the the healing and recovery process.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, you you uh you you don't want too much downtime.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want too much downtime.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's not good.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: You g you give guys too many too much opportunity to think.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: You have to keep the focus.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: You have to keep the focus on what you're there for, what you need to do.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, eliminate my thing has always been uh you know the treatment doesn't start until you eliminate the uh the uh the other thing.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes help each other keep that focus.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we can uh ask Angela to tell us a little bit how you um um uh became interested in or started to uh work in uh is it recovery um uh in our field?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say ministry, but it really is.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um the profession as well.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and what led you to straight and arrow and what's been some of your experience since you've been there?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Sure, sure.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I entered even in my bachelor's, I had to have a double major and I did uh studied education and psychology.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: Where'd you grow up?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um I grew up in Bergen County, Garfield, New Jersey.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: I actually was born and based at New York.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yes.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then my family moved into moved to New Jersey and um since moved from Bergen County to Passe County.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I went with my undergraduate to William Patterson University and I had really great mentorship there.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I think difficult, right?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: At 18 years old, you're asking a kid essentially to make a decision for the rest of your life is you know um a pretty big big decision.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I had great mentors, um, you know, great family support, you know, where my parents were just you know encouraging me to explore what you like to do.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so I double-major education and psychology.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I really wanted a career that would bring me fulfillment.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I wanted to make a difference in someone's life, and how can I how could I do that, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: So initially I was going through the education route and really found my passion when I started immersing myself more in psychology and you know, um, really just.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: With um you know the level of care and and treatment that could be provided to really shape someone's life for the future, and I wanted to be a part of that, and how could I do that?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_05: So um I pursued psychology.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like I said, I had great mentorship of William Patterson, and um I completed my master's degree at Monmouth University, and that's where I came across um uh his name is Dr.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: Alan Caviola, and he was wonderful, um, a great mentor to me.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, very close actually with Father Redding on our board of directors.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um I remember I remember yes he has, and I remember Father Redding actually spoke at Monmouth University, so talk about coming full sort circle, you know.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um but great, like I said, mentorship um and and leaders that I looked up to, um, both Father Redding, Father Redding at the time and and my professor.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he really guided me to get into substance use and I started doing the internships, and that's where I was really just captured.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, you know what, I I think this is this is a fit for me, and you know, how I can help and how I can better someone's life, that's what I'd like to do.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_05: So I started my field, we had to have various internships with different populations, and ultimately my first um real job, I'll say right outside of a internship, was at an opioid treatment program in Jersey City.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_05: And for me, coming out of the internships that I had and the education right now at you know, at that time in my life, you know, really showed me the difference between theory and practice.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I say I'm eternally grateful for that job because it taught me so much that a book truly, right, in theory couldn't teach you.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I say to this day, I learned so much more from my clients and the population I serve that they they've made me a better clinician as a result of being in their life.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, at that point it opened me up to so many.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_05: I was just curious, right?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, how do I um you know, looking at the administrative aspect of the organization and how do things operate and licensing and all these things and growth and Joe Duffy was the executive director when I interviewed at Straight and Narrow.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_05: And I have to really give credit to Joe because he gave me an opportunity that I was coming out of a director of admissions position at an opio treatment program, very minimal exposure to administrative um you know experience, and he's he gave me the opportunity to try.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_05: He uh welcomed me in Straight and Narrow, gave me proper mentorship experience.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_05: We had a great team at Straight and Narrow.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm very blessed with the administration I came into and they helped me grow and build my skill.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_05: And ultimately Joe um retired.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_05: Dr.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_05: Samperosi came on and and Sam, like Mike said, you know, was a mentor for me as well.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember when he had announced his retirement, you know, he was really key in encouraging me too to go for the executive director position.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so you started straight narrow and then six weeks later?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm appointed to 2019 executive director.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_05: Six weeks later we have the fire at 410 Strait Street.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_05: So an exp a day truly, I think none of us will ever forget.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_05: Really.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think I saw some media reports after I had arrived at Bishop and um I uh you know I was just starting to realize what Straight Narrow was um and is.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then that this Monsignor Tillier was still in charge of the United Catholic charities at that time.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh um to hear that this great fire happened and all these people got out and they found beds um and and and no no major injuries, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_05: No, and and that was truly maraton's.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: We had the the greatest support from everyone, the community, Fire St.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_05: Joe's, Fire Department, Police Department, uh the um Red Cross, we had displaced because the buildings are for 10 and 396, our main residential building, are so close in proximity, they wanted to take really precautionary measures to relocate all of the clients.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um really without, you know, I'll say a hiccup in operation and such a devastating day, all clients were relocated, medicated, fed, all the staff showed up to support our leadership.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_05: Scott was August of 19.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_05: August of nineteen.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then you had a a couple month break and then uh something called COVID.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and and Straight and Arrow continued operations.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_05: We did.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_05: We continued operations, we never closed.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, a challenging time, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: For especially for myself coming into this role, but again, I couldn't have done it without Scott and our our pro you know, our administrative team and straight and narrow and the staff.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're you there in the fire during the fire at the time of the fire?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And no, I was out uh I was on um a sick leave at the time.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: But um I can relate to what she was talking about.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Me and my daughter was going to we're going to Costco's in Teterborough.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so my daughter looks like what's that black smoke?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, all that black smoke, and I'm out 46.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: So when we come back, that's when I I heard about the fire.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I I cooked, I said, I said, really?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Where's that black smoke coming from?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: So on the way back from Costco's, come to find out, it was straight and narrow.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: I said, You gotta be kidding me.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, 508.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because at the time, you know, um I just said, wow, that's the only thing I can say.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I seen how the dev devastating it was, and I I just I just shook my head.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Wow, wow, that's interesting.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been uh a number of years now, and and there's some good news uh to announce just next week, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell us Andrew?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so five years later, we are um going to have our groundbreaking next week on June 26th.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um we have a wonderful uh professional team with our contractor architects, um, and we took a lot, you know, we took time.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: We took our time really to design a facility that would be a comprehensive campus-like setting, right, that can meet the staff needs, the client needs.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_05: This was a great opportunity for us.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: So we had a lot of design meetings.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but we're here now.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: We have a facility we're excited for.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: I really um think it'll demonstrate such a sense of resilience for straight and narrow and it's also an example of um great partnerships, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Elected officials, local leaders, state leaders, um uh other organizations uh have been there the all the way through and they'll be there represented, I think, on at the groundbreaking.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, they but we really couldn't have gotten this far without the, like you're saying, Bishop, the community relations, governmental relations, all the support um that we were given.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_05: And and that really goes to the testament of the straight uh the reputation Straight and Narrow has.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the legacy we're in the field and in the you know, in the treatment field for 70 years now.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we'll have coverage of that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll have some some local media out.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So look for that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um so any idea how long it'll take to to complete the b the building?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_05: Right now we have a tentative completion of October 2025, but our last meeting with our contractor, they're saying we know we're quite a little bit ahead of schedule.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_05: So hoping that it'll be, you know, a little bit before that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_05: But even not, you know.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, I was gonna say even not, it's still not that long away, I feel as though for that scope of a rebuild.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well we'll be sharing uh uh in the church every 25 years is a quote unquote Jubilee year.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um sometimes the special ones as there was like in 16th Year of Mercy, but so 2000 was Pope John Paul II and entering the new millennium, and but now we're coming to 2025, so the whole year is a Jubilee year, so uh the please God uh opening of the new straight and arrow can be part of the Jubilee celebration.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and Mike, sorry, you were saying um you you you were raised in the church, huh?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um faith has been a part of your it's always been there, however, you know, when you when you uh start making the decisions, you know, you you you forget about God.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, and and I mean that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: You you you forget about it, you know, in a sense.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Become the priority.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: You want to, you know, you can't do it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, right, right.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so um then, like I said, when I went to treatment, you know, I started counseling in 89 because Sam had some of the adolescents on my truck that I was driving, and um, I talked with them and everything like that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got offered a position as a counselor, adolescent counselor.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um it started from there, you know.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: I started going to school.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you worked with young people?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, and uh I I would tell them some things and so on and so forth, you know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: I guess uh somebody seen something in me that I didn't seen in myself.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that was Sar Sam, you know, he was a great mentor, me and him still close to the uh to this day.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um I got my C D C got my license, you know, and uh actually I left straight and narrow in '94 uh because I started counseling in different modalities of treatment, you know, and um with the uh prison system down in Hoboken and um intensive outpatient, outpatient, yeah, just to get that experience, you know, manage care with the insurance companies, which I didn't like.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you know, it's is it's uh then I um did outpatient one time uh uh uh private therapy with uh in Clifton, you know, uh the Clifton Reform Church.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: They had their house there, and I used to do drug and alcohol treatment there, you know, with private clients and everything like that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And um listen, anybody come with insurance, tell them no, and uh into the cash cash and check.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but uh but it was Hey Mike, what was it like working with uh people in prison in recovery?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: What what was that what did that entail?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um I didn't particularly care for it because you had uh a lot of people uh uh uh in administration and working in offices.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh okay.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of interference there.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh bureaucracy.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of interferences.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, do you do you have some experiences where you there were like some people you mentored or sponsored or or counseled that where you saw the similar rebirth and from Oh, absolutely.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um like uh when I see some of the some of the people that I uh have worked with, I would see them sometimes and they they'd say, uh Mike, how you doing?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, it was been a while, and I say, Wow, what's your name?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't tell me the name.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Oh, okay.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't say, Well, I remember you, but I say, Well, good, hi, how are you doing?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll tell me what they're doing, and I and I said, Very good.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: I said, keep it up.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: I said, you know, um, remember, you know, continue the hard work that got you to where you are now.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and trust in God.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, my favorite verse is uh Proverbs 3, verse 5 and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean out on your own understanding.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: And all his ways acknowledge him, he'll direct your path.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, even at I got in treatment and met my wife, who passed away a little what six and a half years ago, I met her in uh 86, and I was still getting high for a matter of fact.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Then when I got clean, I was still sitting in there straight down, and I started taking her out.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we got married in 89, and I got back into the church, you know, and um at Union Baptist in Persik.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And Pussy, I got ordained as a deacon in 2020.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um at a Baptist church.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I take I I I take that very seriously.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I take it very seriously, you know.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: I talk to people, you know, how you doing?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I'm I'm blessed, you know, and I know it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I know it, you know, and um but I said, but I don't take it for granted.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Too many times I took things for granted and it's going to cost me my life, you know.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um for the grace of God, right?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because one time I was in the hospital and they called my family and said, uh, we don't know if he's gonna make it through tonight.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: But um I look at where I am now.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm very grateful.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: I and I and I like I said, I know I'm blessed.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if it wasn't for God, I wouldn't be here now.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: If it wasn't for God, none of us would be here now.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I just look at what's happening nowadays.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't stress myself out.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh I look at things that uh in reference to my own personal life that I can control.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I can drink.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Healthy, healthy decisions, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And um things I can't control, leave it alone.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just turn it over.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, sometimes people get into situations or I can say, that's it.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just turn it over to God.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: And when you turn something over to God, you let it go.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Let it go.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's just what it let it go.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: He'll you turn it over to him, so let him handle it.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let go and let God.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let him let him handle it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And move on.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Angela, I guess you're seeing these kinds of things uh almost every day, right?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: That uh straight and arrow in terms of that community there and the healing that's taking place and the hard, hard work that uh and the ups and downs.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sure that's um um it's a blessed place, huh?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_05: It really is.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I uh you know I we pride ourselves that we can provide a continuum of care, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_05: So we can support somebody through their journey of recovery from our highest level of care, which is detox treatment, through our residential programs, halfway house, and then followed by outpatient programs.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um Job training, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: Job training.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_05: We have on-site, work site trainings, our halfway house, they go, you know, the clients go immerse themselves into the community, they go vocational training, they get job placement.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_05: You know, really the outcome is to help any individual meet the goals that they want to see for themselves, right, in their recovery, housing, employment, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_05: What are the things you have to look at holistically to have that success?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you had mentioned um looking to the future when we spoke uh last week, um there may be some uh changes, some improvements to uh we're looking yes, we're we are very in very preliminary uh stages and planning to also bring in a women and children's halfway house um under the straight and narrow umbrella.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_05: So it's uh you know discussion point at the moment, but that is essentially um you know our level of care.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_05: We have a halfway house for males, and we'd like to open that up for our mommy and me's too.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_05: We have a mommy and me program, women come in uh pregnant and can reunify.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_05: The goal is for those women to reunify while they are in treatment with us.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: If um if someone's watching or listening that might be um struggling themselves with substance or other abuse um um addiction, uh or every family I think um uh in some way along the line uh d deals with the loved one or who might be struggling.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um any particular advice or you would offer to someone either who's struggling themselves or has a family member who might be struggling with addiction or substance abuse.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one of the things I tell them is, you know, you have to look at not only you're hurting yourself, but you're also hurting a lot of people that love you.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh addiction is a very selfish thing.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, stop being selfish, look into your heart and also look at the other people that you're hurting.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that help is out there, right?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: The help is out there.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to c have the courage to admit and eliminate the denial and get the help that you need.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you if you want to have a future, if you want the love of your family members and the support that you already do have, you know, you have to do something about it.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's your choice.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure we could put up a a a number or contact for straight and arrow, other resources that if someone wants to take that step.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely and maybe even a family member that might need someone to talk to.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_05: That would be, you know, to just kind of build on what Mike is saying is we're here.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_05: We're here to help, we're here to guide individuals, families.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_05: It absolutely comes to a point of readiness for any individual.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but even if you know you're thinking about it, it's enough.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_05: Let you know, come give us a chance.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_05: Our staff are dedicated, compassionate, we're here to support you.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_05: So our admissions, anyone can contact our admissions uh department.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_05: The number is 973-345-6000 extension 6801, or visit us on our website at ccpatterson.org.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to cpatterson.org CC for Catholic Charge for Catholic Charge.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: CC Patterson1T.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Potter son, I like to say Potair and Father and CC Patterson.org.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well I like to tell clients too is uh stop making excuses.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Stop, stop making excuses.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I said when I was a dude, I started doing didactic lectures, right?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I and they come in there, hey Mike, how you doing?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Blah, blah, blah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I say, oh, wait a minute.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Before you come in, make sure you wipe your feet.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Wipe my feet.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Yeah, wipe your feet.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then they get the message, you know.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: No excuses.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Keep, you know, keep the you know, wipe my lecture, wipe that off, wipe that off.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: Wipe it off.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: I said, because this is serious.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is your life you're talking about.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: This is your life that we're talking about.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And see, like I thought I it's serious.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I take this very seriously.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: I said, it's it's your life we're talking about.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Don't waste my time and don't waste your time, but I said, you know, you you you complain, you complain, complain.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how many times do you hear him complaining about straight now and the straight now?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: I said, stop complaining.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did straight now send you an invitation to come in?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, stop complaining.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Your behavior and your decisions is what got you where you are now.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how did you do it?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: I said, uh, I did it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: I eliminated the denial and had to accept that I have a problem.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't have I don't have a problem admitting to something, yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: How's a drug addict?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, more so alcohol and and and drugs.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I have a problem.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: I had to do something about it or die.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or die.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I choose to live.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: Praise the Lord.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: Praise the Lord.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: And deal with the consequences, you know, of what goes on.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's not going to be there's no guarantees.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: There's no guarantees.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm very upfront with the clients.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very upfront.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna sling them no BS.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh it's either you do it or you do it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: The truth with love.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_05: And that's part of the healing process and the journey to recovery is breaking down all of that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, and um, you know, the self-knowledge too, as you talked about your childhood being angry or some of the other um those emotions that we do.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that's where maybe we don't even realize that what might be causing us to make those bad decisions or even make those excuses.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: But when there's an openness to allowing a counselor or someone to say, Well, what was it like when you were a child?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know what um and and that understanding, right, then can help to say, all right, I no more excuses, I gotta take responsibility for my choices.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Responsibility for your actions.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, when you continue to make excuses, um and you're getting over to a certain you think you're getting over, but you're really not, because it's having an effect uh again, not only on yourself, but also the people that love you.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the people that love you want you to do better, but you need to want to do better.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so what's what's at the end of the the path for people that do make it through, or is recovery a lifelong journey, or uh I'll piggyback on what Angela says, you know, they had to make a decision to see what they like to do as far as their lives are concerned.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um uh that there was the uh one in Patterson um where they used to go and um help to do job searches and things like that, you know, where they can get the uh go to school for uh to learn trades and so on and so forth.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a lot of things out there for them, but you have to have the courage to go through it, you know, because there's gonna be some trials and tribulations, you know.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to have the courage to go through it, you know.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Persevere, keep going.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we all we all have to good word, we all have to persevere, you know, and I yeah, I like to use that word a lot.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: When I was doing lectures, I like to use that word.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: I said there's patience slash perseverance.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you can have all the patience in the world, but can you deal with the ups and guns that you're going to experience?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have that perseverance.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I said there's a there's a lot out there for you.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: What is that?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um I forget the name of it, but a lot of people have succeeded, you know, because you know, it's eliminate the f uh the fear because there's a lot of fear.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: How am I gonna deal with this if it doesn't go my way?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: I see expectations, stop looking for things that uh you expect this to happen and it doesn't happen, so now you look at it as a f uh uh uh as a failure.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Expectate your expectations aren't going always gonna be met.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what are you gonna do?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Give up?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the easiest thing in the world to do, is to give up.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna get you anywhere though, right?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna get you anywhere.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: It gets you locked up.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: It gets you locked up, because you're gonna go back to the same behavior.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I uh I don't like to use the profanity, but you know, it's like there's two letters, you know, and that's what you do.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, oh well.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: And next thing you know, you're back behind the eight ball again.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then you get mad at drug court.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, whomever else referred you here?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Parole approbation.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Back to excuses.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go again.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if it wasn't for you.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's so important to have staff like Mike as well, right?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_05: To show, to be able to show the clients, right?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_05: A true inspirational story, how powerful his message is and to share that because I think initially coming into treatment, we all right, have our reservations.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_05: You don't know what to expect.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's a new environment, you know.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like I said, it's you know it's about a point of readiness for an individual.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_05: So it could be first, second, third, fourth time.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_05: It's still okay.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_05: You're coming back.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_05: We see that as a success.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but to see what there is, you Jay, you ask like what's on the other end for someone, you know, and just how powerful Mike is to be that role model to say, look, it's okay.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_05: And we can't, you can't get through it.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_05: But you more than anyone has to want to be able to do that work.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a willingness that the client has to bring to the table, I think.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why don't we uh end it there?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so thank you both so much for being on and for this insightful uh episode.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being on and for who you are and what you do, uh Angela.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh keep up the great work and looking forward to being together next week uh for that great uh moment of groundbreaking.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And Mike, uh looking forward to talking some more baseball.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Any anytime, anytime.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can sit down.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: I can sit down and I'm I'm watching like I'm watching Yankees, you know, I'll I'll I'm they come they come on today at four o'clock.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll sit down and I'll be right back.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what's his name?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the pitcher, the um uh the guy who's been great.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um his name just went out of my head.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: The guy um Hill, Luis Hill, right?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: The uh the the guy who's been pitching from them, the rookie who's been phenomenal.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: He has to be a good thing.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: They gotta win the series today against both of the cold pitch last night.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Judge might be back in 11 today.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I already tried to talk his way in last night.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: So is that right?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it must not be too bad.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's great.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's great.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uh four o'clock.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be on the radio, I'm gonna be in the car.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: So that's gonna, you know, you know, I I'll just sit back and watch the picture.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna see what pitch I would throw in a situation, like, you know, it's great.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: You see some of the I'm here.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't just a cortez, how about the crafty left lefty uh oh he's comical.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's uh nasty nester.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I did hear the Metter on a six-game uh winning streak here.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: They lost last time.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Showed you what I know.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: They lost last time.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yankees are rocking first place, I guess, right?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, let's let's get out of here.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Bishop, anything else uh you want to share before we rewind down?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's uh what's going on?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing this week?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: The the weekend.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this coming weekend, um I got a mess with the Filipino uh Dyson Commission.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Couple of confirmations.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um the uh um week for religious freedom, uh USCCB, um uh from uh this tomorrow's the feast of St.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Aloysha's Gonzaga, um, patron saint of young people, and I have an aunt in Ireland whose sister Aloysius, so happy feast day to her.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And but Saturday is John um June 22nd, the feast of St.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas More and St.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: John Fisher, great martyrs in England.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, St.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas More.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the king's good servant, but God's first.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we pray for our country.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking forward to July 4th, it'll be right around the corner.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we have a lot of challenges, but we're blessed to live in this land, and uh so we're blessed with uh religious, you know, freedom to practice our faith, but we shouldn't take that for granted.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So go to the USCCB website and check out um some information about the week for religious freedom.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, awesome.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you for joining us.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get to know us better by following Beyond the Beacon on Facebook or Instagram.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Email questions and podcast topic ideas to beyond at patternsdiocese.org.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Discover our other podcasts, Coffee with Cupkey and the Pulse Street Journal.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much, Mike.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Angela, and thanks everybody.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: God bless you.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.