Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Murder In Moscow: Transcripts From The Closed IGG Hearing (Part 10)

Transcript

Murder In Moscow: Transcripts From The Closed IGG Hearing (Part 10) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with a Leslie Groff interview with Congress.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Question and was Glenn Maxwell ever present in the room
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I don't know. Question.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Did miss Maxwell ever instruct any woman or a girl
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: on how to give mister Epstein a massage? Answer? I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question. Was anyone else ever present in the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: room when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question. As you testified to earlier, you began
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: working for mister Epstein in two thousand and one. In
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, he pleaded guilty to two felony
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: accounts of soliciting and procuring a minor for prostitution. We'll
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: get into the details of the investigation much more later,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: but the investigation into him began in two thousand and
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: five while you were still working for mister Epstein. When
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: did you first learn about the investigation? Answer? I believe
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: it was two thousand and seven. Uestion And how did
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you learn answer? Because the FBI came to my door
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: in Connecticut and handed to serve me a subpoena. Question
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and did you speak with them? Did you give testimony
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to them? Then answer? I let them into my house
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and sat them on my sofa and they started asking
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: some questions, and yeah, that was it. That was how
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I found out. Question what questions did they ask? Answer?
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It was so long ago. I think they just asked
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: if you know they said that they were here. They
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: were very friendly. They just said, you know, we're here
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: because we understand you work for mister Epstein as a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: secretary and we just want to talk to you. I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: really don't remember what they said. I think my head
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: was probably spinning. I had no idea Miss Brignac, question,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: who did you speak to? Next? Answer my son who
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: was with me because he had just gotten up from
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a nap. He was about two and a half to
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: three years old. And I really didn't know what to do.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So I went upstairs and I called Darren Endyke, who
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: is the in house counsel, just to say that people
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: are here. I don't, you know, I don't know what
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to do. And he just said you should not speak
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to them without an attorney. And I've watched enough TV
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: to know, okay, So I went downstairs and I said,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think I should be speaking to you without
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: an attorney president, and they didn't really like that, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: then they left. Question did you in fact retain an attorney? Answer?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I did not retain an attorney myself. Mister Epstein got
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: me an attorney, and I went and spoke to him once. Question,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: when you spoke to mister Indicke, did he seem privy
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to the investigation? Answer? No, question, it was news to him.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Answer it sounded like it was news to him. Yeah,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Miss Tolin. Did anyone ever instruct you besides without having
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: an attorney, but did anyone generally instruct you not to
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: talk to the FBI? Answer? No question. And at what
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: point did the massages stop occurring for mister Epstein? Answer
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: when he went to jail? Question in July of two
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: thousand and six. Answer, No, he went to jail. When
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: did he go to jail two thousand and nine, two
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Yeah, Brigniak. Did the sssages stop occurring
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: at that time? Miss Graff? Yeah? Question did they resume
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: at any point after he was released from jail? Miss Groff? No?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Mister Emmer, what was your understanding of why the massages
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: stopped at that point, Miss Graff, you never said there
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: was no reason, they just stopped. Mister Timmins when he
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: was on work release. Did he not get massages when
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: he was out of jail temporarily, Miss Groff, No, Brignac,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Miss Groff, you said they never resumed, Miss Groff,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: They did not resume after he got back or when
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: he came got out of jail. Miss Brignac, you never
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: booked a massage for mister Epstein once he was released
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: from prison. Miss Groff, It's possible that there was a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: massage had a spawn pomp Beach don Wick that we
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: discussed earlier. They had a medical chiropractic care spa, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I think that might have been one time. I think
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: he bought like a package of ten for a nutritionist.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: They were nutritionists in chiropractic care, and Don was also
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a registered massuse mister Timmins. So in twenty thirteen, when
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you moved into the residence and your office was there,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: he never had you book a massage for him until
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: he died in twenty nineteen, Miss Groff. That's correct, Miss Brignac.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: But he continued to receive massages? Correct? Did someone else
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: book them, Miss Graff, Not that I know of. I
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: don't know that massages were being booked or made. Brignac,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Why would the massages need to cease if that was
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a regular part of his day? And he said, in fact,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: he was not guilty, Miss Graff, I don't know. He
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: also stopped drinking tea. Miss Witcombe, you answered the question,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Miss Graff. Yeah, Miss Whitcombe, you answered the question, Ms Graff,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, Miss Brignac. Did you find it
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: odd that it was a regular part of your practice,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the schedule his massages and then it suddenly stopped, Miss Groff? No,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Miss Tolan. And now we're just going to ask a
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: few general questions about your role and get into some
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: more details about it. Did you have to sign a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: non disclosure agreement upon being hired as mister Epstein's secretary? Answer? Yes,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: question what were the details of this agree? Answer? What
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I recall is that I was not supposed to discuss
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: any of mister Epstein's clients with anyone, and if I
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: did so, it would be one hundred thousand dollars fee.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Question and you understood this to mean his business clients
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: who he managed money for. Answer correct question And how
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: did you know? I know we discussed earlier your knowledge
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of who clients were, But how did you know who
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: was a client at the time? Answer I believe that
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: NDA might have specifically said las Wexner and then clients
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and clients. Question but at the time you would have
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: understood who fell into that category? Answer sure, as clients
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: is wealthy clients. Uh huh. Question did you keep a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: copy of the agreement? Answer? I did not. Question did
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: all the employees of mister Epstein have to sign the agreement? Answer?
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question did mister Epstein himself ask you
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to sign the agreement? Answer? No, it was part of onboarding.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It was probably redacted, is my bet? Question and you
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: mentioned previously, but can you explain again where you maintain
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: office space while working for him? Answer? Sure? So from
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one to two thousand and nine it
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: was part of Helmsley Palace, part of the Villard House,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and I was located in the rear of the suite,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: directly back from the reception as desk. There was a
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: door to my office and then my desk sitting. If
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you looked outside the window you could see Saint Patrick's Cathedral.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Answer And where did you move to in two thousand
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and nine? Answer? In two thousand and nine, we moved
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: to three oh one E sixty sixth Street. Answer and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: how long were you in that office space? Answer? I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: believe it was two or three years? Question? When did
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you get moved to that office space? Answer? We were
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: told that the premier location at Helmsley Palace was very
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: expensive location, and since mister Epstein wasn't going to be
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: here anymore, what we needed to we were downsizing and
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: needed to find other space. I don't know why it
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: became three oh one E sixty six Street. Question did
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you ever work out of the four fifty seven Madison
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Avenue building? Answer that was Helmsley Place? Yes? Question okay,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: did you ever? Timmins jumps in? Real quick? Can I
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: get back to something? So it's my understanding that Epstein
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: had a massage every day for his entire life, but
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: after he got out of jail, you never booked a
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: massage therapist. Did you book the eight assistants for an hour?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And did just say name hour or what he was
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: getting massage? So like? And you were in charge of
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: his schedule so what was going on? I mean, did
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: you book a redacted ten am for an hour? Graf? No, Timmins, No,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Graff no, Timmins. Okay. He got a massage for every
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: day of his life. So when after twenty ten, when
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: he got out of jail, when when did that happen?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you do a schedule, Graf, when did
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: it stop? Timmins, He was getting them. The question is
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: who was giving them to him? If you were not
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: coordinating it? So how did he who was doing it?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Mister Wickham jumps in? Was there someone else coordinating mister Timmins.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Was there like a logical spot in his schedule on
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: a regular basis that used to have a massage that
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: now has something else? A pattern? Backner? Maybe if you
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: ask I don't know if we ask her if she
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: knew he was getting massages? Timmins okay, Graff, Yeah, Timmins.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Was there a pattern in the schedule that would suggest
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: that there was a moment in his day on a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: regular basis that he was getting a massage since you
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: stopped scheduling them, Graff No, Timmins, okay, sorry, Back to
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: miss Tolan and then just a few more office questions
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: did you ever work out of the Palm Beach home?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Answer no question, did you? And did you mentioned an
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: office space in Manhattan town home later on? Answer later
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: on yes. Question And aside from scheduling massages, can you
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: describe your other roles and responsibilities as mister Epstein's secretary?
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Answer sure. I scheduled his business meetings. I scheduled breakfast, lunch, dinner.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: If he was going to have a party, I might
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: coordinate with that. I coordinated with this staff, all the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: homes on his island. I coordinated with his pilots. I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: would sometimes coordinate trips to say a TED conference. I
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: would the call list, as I said, was very extensive.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: He would make calls every day. And yeah. Question and
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: also aside from the massages, did you ever spend money
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: or provide cash on behalf of mister Epstein during your
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: time as his secretary to anyone? Answer no question. Did
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you ever help order or purchase gifts for anyone on
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: behalf of mister Epstein? Answer no question. And I'm just
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: going to answer some more clarifying questions about purchasing gifts.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Miss Backner, Could I have one word with her? Tolan? Yeah,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: they go off the record. Now they're back on MS Graff. Yeah, okay,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I was going to say sorry after you asked that,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I would say that I definitely coordinated about forty people
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: to receive Apple watches, and you know I might be
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: asked to buy the gift card for Kathy Ruhmler to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a SPA something like that, Miss Tolan. Question what were
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the Apple watches for? Answer? I think that were Christmas gifts?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Holiday gifts. That was about There was a list of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: about forty people, men and women, high profile people on there,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and mister Epstein just wanted to give everybody a watch
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: for Christmas. Question do you recall any of the names
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: who received watches? Answer? I do. I was one of them.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Steve Bannon was one of them. Jojo and Lynn I
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: believe were on there. I don't recall who else. Question
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: what year was that? Answer? I think that was twenty eighteen.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Question and did you ever purchase any gifts for any
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of mister Epstein's assistants? Answer I don't think so. Question
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: did you purchase gifts for any other woman associated with
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer? I know Kathy Rumler got a gift
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: card at Christmas time. I recall getting Leon Black's assistant.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I think she got a spot card. Question did you
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: ever purchase lingerie for women associated with mister Epstein? Answer
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: no question. What about flowers? Answer Kathy Rumler might have
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: received flowers. What about chocolates? Answer not that I recall,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. What was his relationship with Kathy Rumler? Answer business? Yes,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: they were. From what I could tell, it was a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: business relationship. Question it seemed like a business relationship after
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: he was sending flowers and SPA appointments. Answer. I think
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: he thought of her as very professional, and he was
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: very generous, and I think he found her. She was
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: very busy and probably enjoyed some flowers on her birthday
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: or a SPA gift card. Question was there any office
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: gossip about their relationship? Answer no? Question did you wear
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: any rumors about their relationship? Answer no? Mister Emmer? What
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: was her job during this period? Answer by miss Groff?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: She was an attorney? Emmer. Do you know? Gets cut
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: off by Groff. I don't know exactly, but I knew
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: her to be an attorney, Miss Tolan, And you said
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein knew her. Their relationship was strictly business. What
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: kind of business were they engaging in together. Can you elaborate,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Miss Groff, I don't know. He did not talk to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: me about that. Mister Backner, can I ask ask for
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: another question? Goes off the record? Back on Miss Brignac,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and you add access to mister Epstein's personal email accounts.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Did you see any conversations about miss Rumler's job position.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Ms Groff, I did not have access to his personal
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: email account. I mean I would email them, but I
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: didn't see his emails, Miss Brignac, were uc Seed on
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: any emails at reference Roomler's profession? Groff, I don't recall
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Emmer in relation to Rumler. The Committee's interested in how
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein may have surrounded himself with influential individuals to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: curry favor. Did you understand Rumler to be an individual
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that was working at the White House during the period
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that you had been scheduling their meetings, ms Groff, I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: thought you worked at the White House prior to mister
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Epstein's meeting. Mister Emmer, thank you. All right. We're going
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to wrap up right here and in the next episode
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: dealing with the topic, We're going to pick up where
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with This
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.