Latest / WriterCon / LIVE FROM WRITERCON! Season Finale! Romantasy Authors Pike & Lemming!

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LIVE FROM WRITERCON! Season Finale! Romantasy Authors Pike & Lemming! · WriterCon

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  Speaker 1: Listeners to this podcast will notice that the moment I'm
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: about to say James Parrison's name, the audio cuts out.
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  Speaker 1: The conspiracy is real. This week on the writer Con podcast,
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  Speaker 1: I would.
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  Speaker 2: Say, get as wild and crazy as you want in
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  Speaker 2: your first draft. No one's going to see it, but
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  Speaker 2: you someone's going to judge it.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 1: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
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  Speaker 1: hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
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  Speaker 1: the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
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  Speaker 1: winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse Orrich.
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  Speaker 4: We are coming to you live from writer Con twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty four, and just so you know up front, we
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  Speaker 4: are joined today by two of our top keynote speakers,
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  Speaker 4: Aprilin Pike and Kimberly Lemming. Apriln and Kimberly are both friends.
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  Speaker 3: Of the podcast.
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  Speaker 4: They've been on before, and we are very grateful that
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  Speaker 4: they're joining us today, not only for the podcast, but
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  Speaker 4: bringing so much to writer Con itself. April and I
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: remember when we first met. I'm going to say a
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  Speaker 4: dozen years ago. It might have been more, but if so,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: I'm not telling anywhere that conference in Hawaii.
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  Speaker 3: I knew.
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  Speaker 4: That's easy to say after someone's become a number one
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  Speaker 4: New York Times bestseller. But I knew that first day
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  Speaker 4: you were going places. But did you suspect that I
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  Speaker 4: would drag you to Oklahoma for a writer's conference.
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  Speaker 5: I did not. In fact, I was very skeptical that
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  Speaker 5: this is new author, humongous head thing going on. I
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  Speaker 5: was skeptical that a YA fantasy author had anything really
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  Speaker 5: to learn from a thriller writer. I signed up for
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  Speaker 5: a different author and they got sick, and I got
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  Speaker 5: switched into Bill's class and it was amazing.
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  Speaker 4: Thanks Kimberly, you've been on the podcast, of course, as
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  Speaker 4: I just said, but this is your first time at
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  Speaker 4: writer con any first or second impressions.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 4: I want to come back fantastic. How about we can
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  Speaker 4: make that happen. Laura Jesse, how about you? You having
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  Speaker 4: a good time, having.
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  Speaker 1: A great time, getting all my steps in running in
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  Speaker 1: between rooms. It's been great.
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  Speaker 6: I am making wonderful connections. We've got a great group
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  Speaker 6: of people here. I know I say this every year,
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  Speaker 6: but I think this is the best conference we've ever had.
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  Speaker 6: I don't know if it's because I'm living it. It's
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  Speaker 6: either because I'm living it or because it just gets
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  Speaker 6: better and better every year.
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  Speaker 3: Well let's go with that one.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you may have already answered this, but how
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  Speaker 4: about you in the audience. Have you learned anything at
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  Speaker 4: writer Con this year?
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  Speaker 3: Good? I was worried there for a second, but yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you bailed me, I heard one. No, right, yeah, No.
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  Speaker 4: That's what writer Con is about, all of you, community
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  Speaker 4: of writers joining forces to help one another through what
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  Speaker 4: can be the sometimes challenging world of writing and publishing.
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  Speaker 4: But the more you know, the better your chances. And
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  Speaker 4: that's why we're here. I am very anxious to talk
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  Speaker 4: to our two special guests, Aprillyn and Kimberly.
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  Speaker 3: But first the.
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  Speaker 4: News first news story, and I titled this just for you, Jesse,
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  Speaker 4: Move over, James Patterson.
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  Speaker 3: There's a new number one thriller writer in town.
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  Speaker 4: Which turns out to be true, although I don't think
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  Speaker 4: anybody knew it until The New York Times leaked a.
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  Speaker 3: Story about thriller novelist FRIEDA.
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  Speaker 4: McFadden, who has now claimed five spots on the Hidden
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  Speaker 4: Gems list this month, including the number one spot with
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  Speaker 4: her brand new book called The Housemaid is watching. It's
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  Speaker 4: getting a big boost as a result of that New
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  Speaker 4: York Times profile. I mentioned her print books come from
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  Speaker 4: source Book, but she's retained the ebook right. Here's the
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  Speaker 4: reason why it's a surprise. She's a physician, a practicing
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  Speaker 4: physician who treats brain or disorders and writes in her
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  Speaker 4: spare time, which I'm sure she has tons of. But
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  Speaker 4: here's what nobody knew. Because she's writing under a pseudonym
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  Speaker 4: because she doesn't want her patients and clients to be
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  Speaker 4: confused with writers and readers and all that.
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  Speaker 3: Sort of thing.
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  Speaker 4: She is currently the top selling best selling thriller writer
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  Speaker 4: in the United States, beating out Fault Dachi and John
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  Speaker 4: Grisham and all the rest. So it's unusual for many reasons.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, we always hear about lawyers writing books. That's
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  Speaker 4: like a dime a dozen of physicians, that's more unusual. Laura,
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  Speaker 4: does this make you wish that you wrote thrillers or
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  Speaker 4: make you wish you'd gone to medical school?
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  Speaker 6: Well? Hm, through the course of my adult life, I
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  Speaker 6: have wished a number of times, for lots of reasons,
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  Speaker 6: that I'd gone to medical school. But I also know
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  Speaker 6: that I'm happier writing books. I like reading thrillers, but
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  Speaker 6: I don't think i'd like to write them. But I
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  Speaker 6: am so happy for her and Jesse.
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  Speaker 4: You're just happy that Patterson's not in the number one
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  Speaker 4: slot anymore.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel bad for Passings cadre of writers
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  Speaker 1: that he hires to write his books, so I feel
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  Speaker 1: bad for them. But also, yeah, anytime there's a story
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  Speaker 1: like this, it makes me feel like I'm not efficient
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  Speaker 1: enough with my own time. If like a surgeon has
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  Speaker 1: time to write a book, I'm like, what am I doing?
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  Speaker 4: I don't want to be that busy. Do you know, Gi,
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  Speaker 4: did you read this story? Do you have any thoughts?
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  Speaker 4: Or this is a surprise to you?
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  Speaker 3: A promised.
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  Speaker 5: This is a surprise to me because I've read several
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  Speaker 5: of her books. I find her very hit or miss,
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  Speaker 5: and normally very quite hit or white miss, and I
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  Speaker 5: thought that she was one of those self published authors
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  Speaker 5: who writes a lot of books and is like I
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  Speaker 5: will throw all the spaghetti. And I'm shocked to hear
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  Speaker 5: that she's a physician, not because of skill or knowledge
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  Speaker 5: or anything, but just sheerly because of time.
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  Speaker 3: I'm like, really, persistence.
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  Speaker 4: Well, as I said, she started a sourcebook. She's got
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  Speaker 4: other publishers now, but she's held onto the ebook rights
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  Speaker 4: of everything she's got, So she's still controlling what is
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  Speaker 4: probably the largest profit center for her herself.
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  Speaker 3: And that's kind of remarkable, all right. News story number two.
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  Speaker 4: Amazon adds identity verification to KDP.
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  Speaker 3: Like finally, about time, Kindle.
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  Speaker 4: Direct publishing, of course, is where most people who are
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  Speaker 4: self publishing or indie publishing or even small and legitimate
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  Speaker 4: presses go to upload their books to legitimate that's so wrong.
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  Speaker 3: Other I should say, who's the illegitimate ones? No, we're
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  Speaker 3: not doing that.
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  Speaker 4: But other publishers go to upload their books into Amazon's system.
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  Speaker 4: And it used to be pretty much anybody could upload anything,
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  Speaker 4: which has led to people uploading books under other people's names,
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  Speaker 4: which leads to lawsuits after they finally figure out somebody
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  Speaker 4: else has sold a million copies under their name, or
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  Speaker 4: now people uploading AI generated books without admitting it, or
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  Speaker 4: other kinds of junk. Well, now Amazon is requiring They're
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  Speaker 4: rolling it out slowly, but in pieces. They're going to
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  Speaker 4: require people to upload photos of some government issued identification,
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  Speaker 4: driver's license, passport, whatever, and if the account holder declines
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  Speaker 4: to verify their identity with and asked, they will not
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  Speaker 4: be able to publish and or the account will be closed.
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  Speaker 4: The Amazon's help page now says, and I'm quoting, identity
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  Speaker 4: verification is one of many two rules for providing authors
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  Speaker 4: and publishers with a trustworthy, enjoyable KDP experience and for
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  Speaker 4: protecting readers from fraud and abuse.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we're all in favor of that, Laura.
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  Speaker 4: Welcome development or just another hoop you have to jump
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  Speaker 4: through when you're uploading your books.
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  Speaker 6: Well, of course when it applies to you, it's going
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  Speaker 6: to feel like a little bit of a pain in
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  Speaker 6: the neck. But honestly, authors have been asking for years
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  Speaker 6: and years and years, we've been clamoring for Amazon to
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  Speaker 6: quote unquote do something, and they are doing something. I
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  Speaker 6: like to think that this will bring some relief to
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  Speaker 6: the system. I really hope, I really hope that it
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  Speaker 6: does most impact the people who shouldn't be there and
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  Speaker 6: who are gaming the system and abusing it and taking
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  Speaker 6: advantage of it. So my hope is that, yes, this
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  Speaker 6: will wind up being a good thing.
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  Speaker 4: Good Jesse, you're our tech person. Is this actually going
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  Speaker 4: to work or are people just going.
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  Speaker 3: To find some work around this? They to all the time.
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  Speaker 1: I'd be interested to see what the workaround could be.
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  Speaker 1: If you could like make a fake driver's license picture
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  Speaker 1: using you know, photoshop or whatever, and if they would
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  Speaker 1: buy that, or if they're going to do actual verification
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  Speaker 1: with the information you're giving them. So I guess we'll
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  Speaker 1: have to see it.
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  Speaker 4: Seems you know, at that point, if you start uploading
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  Speaker 4: fake documents with you know, clip art photographs of the
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  Speaker 4: author or something like that, that's actual fraud.
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  Speaker 1: That's an actual fraud and it's actual work, which makes
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  Speaker 1: me think like the person won't do it anyway, not
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  Speaker 1: stop anybody. I want our listeners to know that I
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  Speaker 1: ran both of these news stories by Renee to see
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  Speaker 1: if she had any thoughts. She did not, as we
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  Speaker 1: all know, her love for our publishing news segment runs deep.
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  Speaker 3: So all right, enough of this.
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  Speaker 4: We have two superstar writers here waiting to be interviewed,
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  Speaker 4: so let's talk to Aprilin Pike and Kimberly Lemming. Whoo,
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  Speaker 4: all right, April In, Kimberly, welcome back to the podcast. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: traditional first question, I'll start with you, April Inn. If
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  Speaker 4: you could offer writers one piece of advice. And I
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  Speaker 4: know events asked you this once before, so you can
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  Speaker 4: use that answer again or come up with your second
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  Speaker 4: best piece of advice, your choice. But if you could
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  Speaker 4: offer one piece of advice, what would it be.
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  Speaker 5: Well, you know what, since I'm here in teaching a masterclass,
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  Speaker 5: I will advertise my masterclass and make that part of
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  Speaker 5: my advice. He didn't even tell me to do this,
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: so I'm teaching class tomorrow. That is the first three
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  Speaker 5: pages of your first three chapters. And part of the
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  Speaker 5: point of this workshop is to get you past the
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  Speaker 5: first chapter, because I know writers who will spend so
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  Speaker 5: long on that first chapter and they're like, if I
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: make it perfect, then i'll have like the motivation to
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  Speaker 5: get on to the rest of it. And I'm like, no,
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  Speaker 5: if you try to make it perfect, you'll never move
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  Speaker 5: past it. So even though it's the first few pages
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  Speaker 5: of the first few chapters, we're gonna spend very little
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: time on chapter one, and we're gonna go like, now,
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: think about chapter two, think about chapter three. What do
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: the subsequent chapters need to do? So my advice is,
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: don't don't get stuck on chapter one. Move on. Let yourself.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: Write terrible chapters twos and threes and fours and fives
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: and so on, But just keep writing. You can go
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: back and edit anytime. As long as the words are there,
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  Speaker 5: they will be ready to be edited anytime. But if
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: the words are not there, they cannot be edited.
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  Speaker 4: This is so true, Kimberly, How about you? I know
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  Speaker 4: you've answered this before too, but for today, if you
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  Speaker 4: can offer one piece of advice, what would it be?
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  Speaker 2: I would say, get as wild and crazy as you
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  Speaker 2: want in your first draft. No one's gonna see it
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: but you so who's gonna judge it? Make it is insane,
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  Speaker 2: make it, set something on fire, Do whatever you want
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  Speaker 2: because you never know what you're gonna want to keep,
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  Speaker 2: And if you allow yourself that freedom, you might end
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  Speaker 2: up making your story way more dynamic than it would
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  Speaker 2: have been at first.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely, right, April In Let's start with you, because you
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  Speaker 4: have been on a magnificent journey. Did you ever imagine
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  Speaker 4: that your first published novel would be a number one
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  Speaker 4: New York Times bestseller?
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  Speaker 5: I did not. I really thought it was going to
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: take at least two.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it sounds so Egomania called to say, my
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  Speaker 4: first book.
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  Speaker 3: But second, that's cool.
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  Speaker 5: I was on a panel one time with Diana Gabaldon
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  Speaker 5: and she is the loveliest person, and she has this
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  Speaker 5: very particular way of speaking, and I do a pretty
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  Speaker 5: good impression, and I'm not really sure I'm going to
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  Speaker 5: do it today, but she essentially said that there's nothing
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  Speaker 5: worse than coming out and hitting it big on your
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: very first book, because then you have nowhere to go
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: but down. And then she passed the microphone. Sorry, I
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: shouldn't take it away, and then she passed the microphone
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  Speaker 5: to me, and I was like, because I was a
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  Speaker 5: baby author, you know, I was like three weeks out
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  Speaker 5: from hitting number one. She didn't know me. I didn't
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  Speaker 5: know her. I was like, Diana Gablton, that's nice. I
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: didn't know who she was. I didn't know what outland
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: it was. I found out very quickly when everyone was
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  Speaker 5: there to see her and not me, And I was like, so,
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  Speaker 5: my name is Apralom Pike and my first book just
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: came out and hit number one on the New York
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  Speaker 5: Times bestseller list, So I guess we're going to see
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: what's gonna happen, Guyana. But it was very it was
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: it was super awkward, but it is interesting because there
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: is nowhere to go but down and that or straight across.
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: You could go straight across, and it does make for
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  Speaker 5: a wild journey. And I think that really the most
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: unexpected part was that it did a lot of this
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: after that. There is no point at which it's like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: all right, well now you hit You've hit number one,
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  Speaker 5: Now you're John Grisham forever. You know, that just doesn't happen.
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  Speaker 5: And it it never stops being a roller coaster. And
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  Speaker 5: I apologize if anyone here is like, as soon as
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  Speaker 5: I get published, it will stop being a roller coaster.
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  Speaker 6: Nope, it's not.
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  Speaker 5: It never stops being a roller coaster. And part of
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  Speaker 5: that is that it's always fun. It's always there's always
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: unexpected things, but it is. It's always crazy.
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  Speaker 3: I like roller coasters most of the time.
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  Speaker 5: No, no, but I like the publishing roller coaster I
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: discovered as an adult. I do not like roller coasters.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: You haven't done the Velocit coaster. I mean you live
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: in Florida. Universal.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: I have not been to Universal. That is wow, that's
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: a story for another day.
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  Speaker 4: We'll talk, Okay, Kimberly, you have also seen skyrocketing success,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: rising high on the new and improved and much more
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: accurate USA Today bestseller List.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: How did you feel when you first saw your name
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: on that list.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I was baffled, really, I was completely baffled because it
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: was a re release of that book. And I'll be
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: honest with the first few books. When I first started
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: doing this, half the time I was just being petty
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: and trolling people on Twitter, Like, for example, I when
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I first started doing this, people on Twitter were like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I can't believe you put is saying in your fantasy novel.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you haven't seen nothing yet. Now Book
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: two is called that time I got drunk and you
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: did a love postion out a Wearwolf. You think that's bad?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I'm doing Dinosaurs an Alien next.
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: April. Lynn, Could you tell us how do you think
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: the business has changed in the ten or so years
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: since you got started.
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: So, I think that there have been two huge title changes.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: Title title idl right. I mentioned in my class that
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: I really like discovering homophones, and that's one of them.
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: I discovered lately. Title when I moved to the ocean
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: is not title, which is what you put on your
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: book anyway. So two of the big title changes have
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: been the move to ebooks and all of the self
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: publishing that that has opened up, and things like the
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: news story that we talked about with freedom mcfad, I'm
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: keeping those e book rights. All of a sudden. Ebook
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: rights are not this that your agent throws into a
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: deal to make the publisher feel better and be like,
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: let's just close this thing. Here's some ebook rights, you know,
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden, they are a majority of your sales.
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: They are a huge deal. How much ConTroll o you
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: have over them is a huge deal. The ability to
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: put ebooks out on your own is a huge deal.
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: It's launched this entirely new section of the publishing industry amazing.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: The second big thing that happened was COVID happened, and
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: all of the editors went home and found out they
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: really don't need to be in the office, and that
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: has opened up a whole bunch of positions for editors
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: who cannot afford to live in New York City but
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: are amazing. It has opened freelance editors, which of course
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: are needed as the self publishing industry gets bigger. It
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: has given editors the freedom to move places. My editor
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: moved to MAUI. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, she went
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: from I was in Arizona at the time, and she
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: went for being three hours ahead of me to three
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: hours behind me, and that was interesting. But I mean,
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: I love the ability to live wherever I want to
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: and still write books, and I don't see any reason
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: why my editor shouldn't have that opportunity as well. So those,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: I think are the two really big changes that have
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: had very rippling and lasting effects on authors and editors
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: and agents and prospective writers.
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  Speaker 6: That was fantastic. Thank you. You're so welcome, Kimberley. Romance
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: has always been huge. We have lots of romance readers,
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: but lately we've had a pulse to that with the
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: addition of romanticy entering the playing field. Have you leaned
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: into that and why do you think that we are
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: seeing this extra surge in what was already probably the
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: most popular genre, or at least one of the most
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: popular genres.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I would say it's more just a wave of what
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: normally gets popular right now. A few years ago it
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: was paranormal, Now it's romanticy. I'd just like to have
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: fun in a fantasy setting. So I was like, oh, now,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: what we're doing. Excellent dragons werewolves, I'll.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Do it all right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Thank you for saying that. I totally had a whole
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: conversation with a friend of mine who writes romanticy.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: She's like, I love it.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: It's a romanticy. I'm like, I have been writing that
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: for fourteen years.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: They had a cute name, right, they.
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: Just didn't have They hadn't made fetch happen yet, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: they have now made Fetch happen, and they're like, look,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: we invented fetch, and I'm like, you did not invent fetch,
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: you just called it something different. So yes, thank you
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: for a fair validated I'm so.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Glad you said that because everyone kept acting like it
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: was new and I'm like, I've been reading fantasy romance
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: my whole life.
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: Well it's not new.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not new at all.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: But if you got a cute name, I do like
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: the name.
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: I like the name. The name is great.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: This April and you mentioned your masterclass.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: You're actually doing two master classes and you're doing two
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: breakout sessions as well.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Can you talk about what you're going to be talking about?
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: Well, you already missed one. I already did one.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, what you talked about.
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: I talked about defining your own success because I am,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: as I explained to my class, I am having a
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: marketing moment. I am currently working full time as a
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: marketing writer for a radiology company in Minneapolis, and I
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: am really enjoying it. And I tell you what, the
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: second that publishing decides to pay me more for my
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: books than this company is paying me for my emails
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: and press releases and web copy, I will switch back.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: But for the moment, I am, they're paying me more
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: to do that, and so I'm doing that, and I'm
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: doing fiction on the side. I am writing a book
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: for a friend. What was the question? That wasn't the question, oh,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: defining your own success, because my idea of success is
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: making a living as a writer, and that's not going
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: to be everyone's idea of what success is. So we
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: talked about that this morning, and about all sorts of
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: different ways that you break into the industry, what sort
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: of money you can expect to make in the industry,
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: if that's important to you at all. I'm keynoting this
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: this afternoon, and I actually always really love putting together
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: keynote speeches because I always add pictures of my kids
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: and tell interesting stories about myself and what I'm thinking.
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: And I like to talk about myself. Tomorrow, I'm teaching tomorrow.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: I'm teaching a class on plotting, which is actually roughly
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: based on what I learned in Hawaii that I've turned
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: into my own little thing. So you make a little
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: cameo appearance in my slice credit where credit is due.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: And then I'm talking about the first three chapters, the
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: first couple of pages of your first three chapters, and
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: how important those three chapters are because while an agent
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: an editor will only give you one chapter, readers will
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: give you three if you can really hook them.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so APRILN is doing that. We're recording this on
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Sunday of Writer Con. Apriln's doing her keynote this afternoon.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: Kimberly did hers on Friday, and I saw people streaming
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: out of the room with these big smiles on there
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: and maybe even a few tears. I think I'm not
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: exaggerating when I say you really connected with people. What
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: was the main message you were trying to get across.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: That's a great question. I had a whole speech plan
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: and then I got up on that stage and froze
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: like a deer in headlights.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: Well, you must have said something because I saw people
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: coming out very happy.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Let me just say, at karaoke last night, I had
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: kind of that. Did I even sing the song? I
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: have no memory of it. Like I think it might
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: have been my worst performance ever.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: I'm spoiled. It was amazing. I can't even you wore
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: leather pants, y'all.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: That alone?
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: She sang too, But like, yeah, well I'm spoiled because
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: of course Bill plays.
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: Piano, so I am accustomed to having a personal accompanist,
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: and so I get a little freaked out when I
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: have a mic in my face and something electronic playing
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: that I have to match.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: But you can't tell it to slow down or speed
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: up right.
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: It is with just a glance, just like he knows,
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: you knows.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: I should explain about the leather pants. We're doing the
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: last song from Grease. You know you're the one that
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: I want. And I needed a black T shirt. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: didn't have one, but I had a ducktails T shirt
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: that I turned inside out and that became my black
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: T shirt for karaoke.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I would say my main message is have fun
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: with your books, because that's what I did. I wrote mind,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: not really expecting anyone to read it. I just wanted
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: to take myself on a fun fantasy adventure. And one
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: of the beautiful things is that so many readers connected
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: with that story that it pretty much saved me. Like
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I was able to be a full time author shortly
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: after my first book.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: So you never know what's going to happen.
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: That's really amazing inspiring. Yeah, what does a typical writing
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: day look like for each of you? So, Kimbrida, you said,
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: now you're you're writing full time. That's phenomenal, and I
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: know a lot of people here have that same goal,
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: that same dream. So and what's your process?
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Well, if I have not screwed up my schedule, which
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I do often, I will do whatever I want before
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: nine am. But at nine am, I want to be
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: in my desk with my coffee, and it doesn't matter
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: if I write ten words or maybe a few thousand words.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I just want to get in that chair and at
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: least think about what I'm doing until maybe eleven or twelve.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Then I'll go take a break a couple hours, and
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: if I feel like it, I'll go back and write again.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And normally just write until five of my hubby gets
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: home and we'll watch anime or something have a good time.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: But on days where I can't really get the words in,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I decide that that means my brain needs a break,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: and it's fine to take a week or so off.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Go on a walk, go visit your friends, go on
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: a trip, whatever you need to do to get back
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: those creative juices. Because you're not going to be able
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to write constantly all the time. And that's okay. Burnout happens.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Take care of yourself so you can get out of
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: that burnout.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, go to a writer's conference so you can get recharged.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Exactly.
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: What about you, April Inn, what's your process look like.
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: You mentioned that you do some other things and are
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: writing more on the side, So how do you find
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: that writing time? Now, Well, I'm going to go ahead
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: and do two parts of this. Because I was at
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: the height of my career, I had four very small children.
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: All of my kids are six and a half years apart,
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: and so I had a lot of kids and they
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: were very little and they need a lot of attention.
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: And I learned how to do something I call writing concentrate,
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: which is that I would think about what I was
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: going to write about the next day all day long,
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: and then I would drop whoever.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: My youngest child was off at preschool. I love prey school,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: and I would have four hours and I didn't have
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: time to check Twitter, I didn't have time to research
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: on Wikipedia. That was not the time for that. I
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: had to sit down and write words. And so I
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: got really good at writing books four hours at a time.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: But that only works if you are ready to sit
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: down and write, if you've been thinking about things, if
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: you've been going over what you wrote the day before,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: and you're ready and you've planned what you're going to
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: write the next day. And I wrote a lot of
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: books four hours at a time by marinating during the
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: other times. Now I feel like a spoiled brat because
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: my children can address themselves and do their own thing,
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: and so I have a lot more time. They also
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: understand this, and they will wait when that didn't used
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: to be the case, and so now it's when I
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: feel like sitting down and working on whatever story I'm
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: working on, I just get to do it, and it
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: feels so freeing, even though I have another job that
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: I work, and they've got school things, and I've got schedule.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: It feels so luxurious because it's not this four hours
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: that I got so used to doing that I did
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: for probably six years straight, this writing concentrate thing, and
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: then it got worse when I was on deadlines, and
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: sometimes I gave up and drove to my mother's house
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: and I said, we're here to visit, and I'm here
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: to write. So yeah, it feels a lot more leisurely Now.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: I write when I want to, and I write what
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: I want to, and it's delicious.
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: Also inspiring because we just heard two very different approaches
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: to writing and they both lead to success. And I
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: think that that is an important message that we like
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: to get across. Whatever works for you can work for you.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: As long as you work and get past chapter one.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I'd like to add something to that too. One of
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the things I notice is that if I get bored
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: during a scene, I will just stop writing for forever.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So even if it doesn't make sense, I will just
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: go on a wild, wacky turn just at least get
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: me to keep writing. For example, yesterday I had to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: have a scene where the main characters is getting a
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: check over.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: By the doctor.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But I got bored, so I'm like well, what if
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: her What if the doctor's husband came in and started screaming,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: you cheating on me?
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: I saw you on the camera.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Now I'm interested. Now I keep writing.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: I'm interested.
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: I like, when's that one gonna be done?
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: That sounds good, That sounds good.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's even funnier when you realize it's like Furbie
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Aliens doing it.
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: So her books are not boring? Would you guys consider
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: yourself panthers or planners.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: I'm a hardcore planner. I don't start chapter one until
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: I know what happens at the end. I don't start
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: book one of a series until I know what happens
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: at the end of the series. So I'm hardcore.
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: Just listening to you talking, I would have guessed that,
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: And now what about you.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I like to pretend that I plot. I will have
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: a very rough draft and maybe like a few scenes. Normally,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: when I like to write, I just like imagine these
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: characters getting the silly arguments in my head. So my
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: phone is like full of like hundreds of thousands of
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: words of just these random conversations, and then when I
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: actually get to start writing, it's like, I feel like
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: this scene needs more dinosaurs. So we're gonna have a
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: broad source smashed to a house. So yeah, I'm definitely
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: more of a panser.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: I admit I've never had a moment where I thought
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: this scene needs more dinosaurs, but I think I would
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: like to. I'm interested. What are some of the.
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: Lessons you've learned along your journey. Maybe you didn't know
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: or fully understand when you first started, but now you
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: understand are very important and would be willing to share
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: with the rest of us.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I would say it's important to remember to give yourself breaks.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: When I first started doing this, I was very overwhelmed
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: with the response I got, so I kept trying to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: push myself to write books faster and better, and faster
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: and faster, and never really gave myself time to relax
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: because I didn't want to disappoint my readers. But I
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: think a year and a half in I just got
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: so exhausted I couldn't write for like maybe half a year.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So remember to take care of yourself. You don't have
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to write several books a year, right as long as
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: it makes you happy, because if it becomes a slog,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to want to quit.
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, April, not all books need to be published. And
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: I think that this is something that I've only learned
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: in the last five or six years, as I've written
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: books that I just loved writing, and I'm like, hmm,
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: at the very least, now it's not the time, and
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: maybe I'll come back to them. But you know what,
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: I'm really at peace with the idea that maybe I won't.
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: And it took me a long time to get to
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: that point and be like, you know, this isn't the
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: time or the market now, and maybe I'll get back
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: to it, and maybe I won't, and that's okay because
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: I really enjoyed writing this book, so it did. It
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: doesn't always have to be about publication success. Sometimes it's
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: just about trying a new thing. And the way that
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: you try a new thing when you're a writer is
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: by writing it. And sometimes it doesn't go anywhere, and
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: that's okay too.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: All Right, one last question for both of you. What
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: are you working on next or what can we expect
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: to see from you next? Aprillyn you want to go first.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: I'm working on two things right now, and one is
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: the sequel to my book Heat, which is about hot dragons,
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: and I don't just mean sexy but that too. They
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: also run a little hot because they're dragons and they
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: have fight your cells.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Naturally, you got dragons, you can work in some dinosaurs,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: can't you.
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: No, those are not the same.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Thing, Bill, Okay, sorry.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: No, I'm not going to work in dinosaurs to that.
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: I understand how you think that would work, but it
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: would not. You're not my editor. You can't tell me
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: what to do. And then I also have this idea
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: brewing for something completely different that's going to be a
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: suburban mystery and I'm super excited about it. And it's
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: about moms doing really bizarre things like egg napping and
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: working for the mob and have plural marriage and lots
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: of It's.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Kind of again, sounds fun, Kimberly, how about you.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I just finished my final edits for my upcoming novel.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I got abduced by aliens and I'm trapping a rom
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: coms a long title.
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Now I'm working on book two. I've punched a king
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: in the face, and now I've been thrown into couple's therapy.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: And on off days I usually end up working on
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: me mishaps book four. So I usually try to let
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: myself have a few projects that way I don't get bored.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Thank you both for being on this podcast, and thank
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: you for being a part of writer Con twenty twenty four.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: Just a few parting words. I wish you could have
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: been here, and I'm sorry you couldn't join us for
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: writer Con. But you know what, We'll be back in
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty five Labor Day weekend and with more sensational
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: guests like these two, and more informative talks like you
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: all have heard for over ninety sessions during the course
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: of this count this convention. In the meantime, we are
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: planning the writer Con twenty twenty five crews who are
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: going to Alaska in May this year and next year rather,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: and of course we'll be back with a small group
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: instruction retreat at Canebreak next summer. You can find information
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: about all that at our website, which of course is
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: writer con dot com. Two other ways to stay informed
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: about what's happening in the writing world. Real quick, let
• 32:41
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• 32:45
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• 33:27
  Speaker 4: and writing. All right, until next time, keep writing and
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Do you guys agree with me? See you next time.