Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / Who Decides How Much Fish Ends Up on Your Plate?

Transcript

Who Decides How Much Fish Ends Up on Your Plate? · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  Most people think
• 0:01
  fisheries management is broken.
• 0:03
  Too political, too slow,
• 0:04
  too disconnected from science.
• 0:06
  And honestly, a lot of the
• 0:07
  time, they're right, it's true.
• 0:09
  But what if I told you
• 0:10
  there's one global fishery
• 0:11
  where things have
• 0:12
  actually started to turn around?
• 0:14
  Not perfectly, but measurably.
• 0:17
  And tomorrow I'm bringing on a guest
• 0:18
  who's gonna walk through just how big
• 0:20
  of the shift really is.
• 0:22
  But today, we need to
• 0:23
  understand the system first.
• 0:25
  Because if you see
• 0:26
  how fisheries management
• 0:27
  actually operates, you'll understand
• 0:29
  why the result matters so much.
• 0:32
  This is the How to
• 0:33
  Protect the Ocean podcast.
• 0:34
  Your weekday ocean news and insight
• 0:36
  podcast, where we connect the dots
• 0:38
  between science, policy
• 0:39
  and real world action.
• 0:42
  So if you want to understand how ocean
• 0:44
  management is done, how it really works,
• 0:46
  and not just the headlines, you want to
• 0:48
  follow this podcast on your favorite
• 0:50
  podcast app so you don't
• 0:51
  miss tomorrow's episode.
• 0:53
  At its core, fisheries
• 0:54
  management answers one question.
• 0:56
  How much can we fish
• 0:57
  without collapsing the population?
• 1:00
  You think that's a pretty big idea, and
• 1:02
  it's a very, a lot of pressure on that
• 1:04
  because we haven't
• 1:05
  really been doing a great job
• 1:06
  with many of the fisheries in the past.
• 1:09
  But to figure that out,
• 1:10
  scientists use stock assessments.
• 1:11
  These models estimate how the fish are,
• 1:14
  how many fish are in the
• 1:14
  ocean, how fast they reproduce,
• 1:17
  how much pressure they can handle.
• 1:19
  From there, they
• 1:19
  determine where a stock is,
• 1:21
  if it's healthy, being overfished,
• 1:22
  or even at risk of being overfished.
• 1:25
  Now, here's where it gets complicated.
• 1:27
  Tuna, they don't stay in one place.
• 1:30
  So instead of managing a local fishery,
• 1:33
  you're managing a shared global resource.
• 1:36
  Multiple countries, one population.
• 1:39
  That's where things start to break down.
• 1:41
  One of the things that I always talked
• 1:43
  about in my master's with my professor
• 1:45
  and my supervisor, he was always saying,
• 1:47
  "Hey, you know what?
• 1:48
  There are certain
• 1:48
  fisheries that we can manage within
• 1:51
  like a national boundary,
• 1:52
  an exclusive economic zone.
• 1:54
  And those fisheries are
• 1:55
  a little easier to manage
• 1:56
  because just one country, one population,
• 1:58
  maybe a couple of fisheries, different
• 1:59
  stock assessments and so forth.
• 2:01
  But the one country had the ability to
• 2:03
  enact its own rules on it.
• 2:04
  Now, some of those rules are great for
• 2:05
  different countries,
• 2:06
  and some of them are not so
• 2:07
  great for other countries.
• 2:09
  But they are able to manage it and makes
• 2:11
  it a little bit easier.
• 2:13
  When a fishery
• 2:14
  population goes over those borders
• 2:16
  outside the exclusive
• 2:17
  economic zone, like squid fishery,
• 2:19
  or they go all over the place or go into
• 2:23
  another country's
• 2:24
  exclusive economic zone,
• 2:25
  then you start to have to work in
• 2:27
  collaboration with other
• 2:28
  countries, other nations.
• 2:29
  Hopefully you're
• 2:30
  friendly with those nations.
• 2:31
  And when it goes to the high seas, it's
• 2:32
  even more difficult
• 2:33
  because there's really,
• 2:34
  other than the high seas treated, which
• 2:36
  is just enacted on
• 2:37
  January 17th of this year, 2026,
• 2:40
  there's really no process in place to
• 2:42
  protect those fisheries once
• 2:44
  it goes into the high seas.
• 2:46
  So it gets a little difficult and it gets
• 2:48
  a little complicated
• 2:48
  and starts to break down when we get to
• 2:50
  those positions and those processes.
• 2:53
  Now, here's the uncomfortable truth.
• 2:55
  The science has been there for decades.
• 2:57
  I've been saying that all week.
• 2:58
  The problem was never
• 3:00
  knowing what to do, how to act.
• 3:03
  The problem was actually doing the work
• 3:05
  and implementing the science, the
• 3:08
  guidance into the system.
• 3:10
  In global fisheries like tuna, decisions
• 3:12
  are made by international groups.
• 3:14
  Dozens of countries sit around the table.
• 3:17
  Scientists give advice, but countries
• 3:19
  negotiate and those negotiations often
• 3:21
  push limits higher than
• 3:23
  what the science recommends.
• 3:25
  Sometimes they don't agree at all.
• 3:27
  There are even cases where meetings
• 3:29
  happened over and over again and no
• 3:32
  decision was actually made, even when
• 3:34
  stocks were clearly in trouble.
• 3:36
  So the science says the
• 3:37
  stocks were in trouble.
• 3:37
  If they go over a certain amount of
• 3:39
  quota, then, you know, the
• 3:41
  stocks will be even more trouble,
• 3:42
  but then nobody really cared because they
• 3:44
  couldn't agree to an actual number, even
• 3:46
  though the number was there to be like,
• 3:48
  hey, if we fish at, say, 30,000 tons,
• 3:51
  then we can actually make sure that we do
• 3:53
  not overfish the population.
• 3:55
  I'm picking 30,000 tons out of the air.
• 3:57
  I don't know what the
• 3:58
  tons in here would be.
• 4:00
  However, it is very,
• 4:01
  it is very important.
• 4:03
  So the system wasn't being broken because
• 4:04
  of the lack of
• 4:05
  knowledge or the lack of data.
• 4:06
  It was broken because of how the
• 4:08
  decisions were actually made.
• 4:10
  And we've seen this time and time again.
• 4:11
  Yesterday's episode of you haven't been
• 4:13
  able to listen to it.
• 4:15
  You know, I talked about the cod fishery
• 4:16
  and how that was broken.
• 4:18
  That system was broken.
• 4:19
  The science said, hey,
• 4:20
  we're seeing a collapse.
• 4:21
  We're trying to see a decline and maybe
• 4:22
  even collapse coming for the cod fishery.
• 4:25
  Paul Disson is like, yeah, we're going to
• 4:26
  still negotiate above the quota level
• 4:27
  that that will make it sustainable.
• 4:29
  And then what happens?
• 4:30
  The collapse of the fisheries shifted the
• 4:31
  economics for the province of
• 4:33
  Newfoundland and other places.
• 4:35
  And it's just it hasn't really recovered.
• 4:38
  It just really hasn't.
• 4:39
  So that makes it very difficult.
• 4:41
  So what started to shift
• 4:43
  that made things change?
• 4:45
  It really was alignment groups like
• 4:47
  International Seafood Sustainability
• 4:48
  Foundation brought together
• 4:50
  scientists, industry and NGOs.
• 4:53
  And instead of competing voices, they
• 4:55
  created one unified push.
• 4:57
  Follow the frickin science.
• 4:59
  Right. Seems pretty easy.
• 5:02
  But believe you me, it is actually more
• 5:04
  complicated than you than you think
• 5:05
  because people don't
• 5:06
  want to listen to the data.
• 5:07
  The one thing about science is you may
• 5:10
  not like the results, but it's still the
• 5:11
  result and you have to follow the science
• 5:14
  or else you are going to get a worse
• 5:16
  result the next year or the decade later
• 5:18
  whenever you decide to sample or if you
• 5:20
  continue to sample and
• 5:21
  still not listen to the science.
• 5:23
  But more importantly, the groups backed
• 5:25
  up the follow the science action.
• 5:28
  Companies shared catch data.
• 5:30
  Retailers demanded sustainable sourcing.
• 5:32
  The fisheries started
• 5:33
  pushing for better management.
• 5:35
  This wasn't about
• 5:36
  necessarily being louder.
• 5:37
  It was about being
• 5:38
  consistent and credible.
• 5:40
  And when pressure comes from every part
• 5:42
  of the system, not just one, governments
• 5:44
  have to start to respond.
• 5:46
  And they do. And they did.
• 5:48
  Then came the biggest shift.
• 5:50
  Harvest strategies, which
• 5:51
  we talked about yesterday.
• 5:52
  If you don't know about harvest
• 5:53
  strategies, listen to
• 5:54
  the episode yesterday.
• 5:55
  We talked a lot about it.
• 5:56
  Before this, fisheries were
• 5:58
  managed pretty reactively.
• 5:58
  Every year meant new negotiations, new
• 6:02
  debates, new delays and harvest
• 6:04
  strategies flipped that right.
• 6:06
  They came up with a pre agreed rules.
• 6:08
  If stock declines, we reduce fishing.
• 6:11
  If it grows, we increase fishing.
• 6:13
  No debate in the moment.
• 6:15
  No political delay.
• 6:16
  Just a system that responds
• 6:18
  automatically based on science.
• 6:20
  That's pretty powerful because it removes
• 6:23
  short term decision making and replaces
• 6:25
  it with long term planning.
• 6:26
  And at the same time, the
• 6:29
  market started to change.
• 6:31
  Right. Certification programs like the
• 6:33
  Marine Stewardship Council raised the bar
• 6:35
  to sell into major markets.
• 6:38
  Fisheries needed healthy stocks, science
• 6:40
  based management and harvest strategies.
• 6:42
  They needed those rules.
• 6:44
  So fisheries had a choice.
• 6:45
  They could adapt or lose access and they
• 6:48
  adapted fishing vessels also stepped up
• 6:51
  adopting bycatch reduction techniques,
• 6:54
  monitoring systems, voluntary
• 6:55
  sustainability, maintenance, and so forth.
• 6:56
  And here's the key.
• 6:59
  Even one improvement matter.
• 7:01
  So because there when hundreds of vessels
• 7:03
  each did their own thing, we started to
• 7:05
  see them doing better.
• 7:07
  The system changed fast because everybody
• 7:09
  was doing something.
• 7:10
  And that's a big thing.
• 7:12
  Even if it was just one thing, there were
• 7:13
  multiple measures they could take.
• 7:14
  But even if they did one thing at the
• 7:16
  minimum, things changed because there
• 7:18
  were so many vessels involved.
• 7:20
  So why does all of this
• 7:21
  matter in this episode?
• 7:23
  I've talked about it all week.
• 7:24
  Why does it all matter?
• 7:26
  Because it's a very important thing.
• 7:27
  We don't hear enough about fisheries
• 7:29
  management can actually work.
• 7:31
  Not perfectly, not everywhere, but it can
• 7:34
  work when science is trusted.
• 7:38
  Data shared incentives are aligned and
• 7:40
  decisions aren't delayed.
• 7:42
  And tomorrow we're going to look at what
• 7:44
  happens when all of that comes together
• 7:47
  because the results
• 7:48
  might actually surprise you.
• 7:51
  Now, this isn't a
• 7:52
  perfect system by any means.
• 7:53
  There's going to be gaps of monitoring
• 7:55
  and enforcement, data limitations,
• 7:58
  observer coverage and climate impacts are
• 8:00
  all going to have a say in what happens.
• 8:03
  And the next step is even bigger.
• 8:05
  Moving towards
• 8:05
  ecosystem based management.
• 8:08
  Looking at the entire
• 8:09
  ecosystem, not just one species.
• 8:12
  That's where this is heading and it's
• 8:14
  heading in a good in a
• 8:16
  good way, in a good direction.
• 8:18
  If there's one thing to take away from
• 8:19
  this episode today, it's this.
• 8:21
  We don't have a
• 8:23
  knowledge problem in fisheries.
• 8:25
  We have an implementation problem and
• 8:26
  when implementation
• 8:27
  improves outcomes improve.
• 8:30
  It's really not that
• 8:31
  difficult from a process standpoint.
• 8:34
  And tomorrow we're going to look at
• 8:35
  exactly how far that improvement has gone
• 8:37
  with tuna fisheries and what it means for
• 8:40
  the future of ocean conservation.
• 8:42
  I want to thank you for listening to this
• 8:43
  episode of the how to
• 8:44
  protect the ocean podcast.
• 8:45
  Make sure that you follow the show so you
• 8:48
  don't miss tomorrow's episode.
• 8:48
  It's a really important episode where we both have a lot of fun. And if you know someone who thinks
• 8:56
  fisheries management never works, share
• 8:58
  this episode with them because the ocean
• 9:00
  needs more people who
• 9:02
  understand what is actually possible.
• 9:05
  I want to thank you for joining me on
• 9:06
  today's episode of the how
• 9:07
  to protect the ocean podcast.
• 9:08
  I'm your host, Andrew.
• 9:09
  Have a great day. We'll talk to you
• 9:11
  tomorrow and happy conservation.