Latest / Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD / Temple Grandin Autism Traits (EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW)

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Temple Grandin Autism Traits (EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW) · Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD

0:00
Showing all I can remember the frustration of not being able to
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talk horrible frustration because I have a temper tantrum.
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There are so frustrated. Hey guys.
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Welcome back to another certainly live show.
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When I say live, I mean, we recorded this live but it's
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obviously a pre-recorded. Anyway, guys today, it's
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awesome. It's a good day.
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I feel honored to have a special guest with me today, which has
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been a long time coming over leave, because a lot of people
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have asked for me to be interviewing this guest.
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So today, I'm welcoming dr. Temple Grandin to the show after
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ground. Then how are you?
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I am just fine now. Thank you for having me.
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It's my pleasure So for anybody who doesn't know you want to, Me
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like a quick like summary of who you are and what you kind of do.
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I'm my child table Brandon, I'm a professor of animal science at
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Colorado State University and one.
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I was a little kid. I had no speak to age for.
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She's very fortunate to get into very good early intervention had
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wonderful teachers. I also had a great science,
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teacher Mentor because I was a bad student who was not
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interested in studying until my science teacher gave me a lot of
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interesting projects and then Studying became a pathway to a
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cold of becoming a science and that motivated me to study, I
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love it. And so you're on the autism
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spectrum as well. So you have a diagnosis of what
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we diagnosed with. Well, I'm 74 years old so when I
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went to the doctor and nobody even know what autism was on
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first doctoral, 12 was neurologist.
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He tested me for epilepsy that was - testing.
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You could deafness and referred me to a little speech therapy
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school. That to teachers thought out of
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their home and diagnosed me with minimal brain damage.
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And then later on, I definitely got notches and diagnosis.
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I had all of the classic symptoms.
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Wow, that's interesting. And what kind of dura my age?
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I'm doctors didn't know what it was.
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This is fascinating, but it's just again, what kind of like,
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you know, just just out of Interest.
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Like, what were some of the traits that you were kind of,
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you know, experiencing or showing all?
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I can remember the frustration of not being able to talk
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Horrible, frustration. Kind of a temper tantrums are so
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frustrated. Sensory, problems loud noises
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hurt my ears. In fact, now I've discovered
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that if you have the child initiate, the same, let's say to
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car horn or vacuum, where they turn it on and off.
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They can sometimes get the tolerate.
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If they control the dreaded sound Sound Sensitivity,
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couldn't stand scratchy, close socially, awkward done.
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When I was in high school, I got bullied and teased nose called
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tape recorder because I always The same things over and over
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again, same phrases. I didn't know why they were
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calling me that the teenage years absolutely worst, part of
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my life. I can vote for that too.
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Yeah. That's fascinating.
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You know, it's such an interesting thing to hear
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somebody, you know, if your generation having this kind of
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experience, it's just absolutely fascinating, but I thank you so
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much for sharing information with.
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I'm sure that's very valuable for the people who watch my
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channel and just that just out of Interest, a lot of people
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want to know, do you have a high IQ and also bizarre question but
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what would you do know your IQ? No, I want my head high enough
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like you that I knew that I wasn't done.
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I wasn't stupid. Yeah, my ability and art showed
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up very early when I was 8 years old and I would call the same
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Force head over and over again. And mother encouraged me to draw
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lots of different things. Yeah.
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And abroad. That the skill.
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I can't emphasize enough the importance of Developing
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strengths. I was one of these kids who's a
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visual thinker everything, I think about the picture, it's
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called an object. Visualizer fact, I discussed
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that in my book, The autistic brain, some of the science
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behind some of the different kinds of thinking and being an
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object. Visualizers help me my work with
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livestock equipment to something because I can just see it but I
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can't do Algebra. Absolutely kind of to algebra
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and I'm saying lot of kids that are object visualizers to can't
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graduate high school, they can't do algebra.
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That's a lot of jobs. You don't need that under some
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visual, thinkers are very good with mechanical things and then
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you have your math. Think you're visual-spatial
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mathematic standards that tends to go together with music.
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And then of course you've got your word thank God.
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And you want to take this strength and I want to just make
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one distinction between a strength and interest things
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like art math or music. Those are strengths an interest
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might be horses are or cars or something like that that would
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be it. Interest and people tend to mix
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those things up. What should I do?
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Broaden that interest, you know, you read about cars do math with
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cars broadened? That's perfect.
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Like you're speaking my language here.
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So I was diagnosed at 25, so I'm 35 now, so a little bit younger
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than yourself, but back at where I live in Wales is quite Rural,
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right? And there was nobody to diagnose
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autism back in the 80s and 90s where I live.
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And so I was diagnosed at 26 but I will have some other Gnosis
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all the way up to that. But you know what you're saying
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about being a visual thinker, I totally relate to that.
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And I'm also, I'm a chemist, I have a degree in chemistry, a
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Bachelor of Science in chemistry.
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And so I was really into algebra, but I'm also a multi
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musician. So I play a lot of different
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punishments but I like, math and music.
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So it's kind of like War the mathematical because what the
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science is showing and I described it the autistic brain
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and there's a lot more science that back this up since the book
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was published. I meant object dishwasher, I
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think in pictures You sound more like The visuospatial Thinker
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because you were good at algebra.
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That's more of a pattern kind of thinking that situation, but
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it's more pattern. And that's a different kind of
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thinking, than, than me the object visualize, and then you
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have a verbal back stud. Then you have a lot of people.
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Just regular so-called normal people that have verbalize,
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others, and then invert total verbal thinkers, and it was a
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shock to me, when I was in my late 30s, they discover that
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other people did not think in pictures that was really a shock
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to Yeah, I'm yeah, 100%. I have this argument from my
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spouse all the time. She, I think in pictures, but
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she doesn't, I'm like, you know, I have to be Visual and
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especially when were describing things I have to have them like
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a drawn-out, you know, it's difficult to read kind of like
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just written lists rather than if I don't see images of those
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you know what, one admitted something like how to, how to do
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something, I'd rather see a diagram then read about, right?
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I totally. I totally relate.
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So that leads me to the fact that we are here today.
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Night really thank you for your time as well.
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Is that you have or you have a new book coming out or it's
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already out, right? That you you wrote with Deborah
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MOA. Deborah more navigating autism.
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And one of the things that's really important is developing
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the kids strengths. I'm seeing too many kids where
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they get so hung up on the diagnosis that they're, they're
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not accomplishing much. There's many famous people that
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are autistic. This is a book about Elon Musk
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by Ashley Vance, and these are Post-it notes up to it in your
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many years ago in the pages where I bought it was autistic,
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he's not come out on a comedy show.
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Yeah. And it's in all seriousness has
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revealed that he, he's on the autism spectrum and Einstein, I
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know. Speaks Malay ch3 would probably
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be an Autism program today. And so autism going all the way
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from someone like Elon Musk. Einstein okay, myself and you to
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somebody who can address themselves.
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And it's all done the same me, which was perverse standpoint.
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Educational standpoint, is Lori make very much sense.
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It's a behavioral profile it's not a an exact diagnosis.
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Like saying that the Delta fairy of cult, that's an example of an
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exact diagnosis. That's really interesting.
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So should your new book navigating on autism?
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Right. So who is this, who is it book
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kind of aim towards music written for its and it was
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originally a more professionals on And try to get them sort of
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out of the just getting stuck in the box with the labels.
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There's a lot of crossover between Autism and ADHD.
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Third of the symptoms of brain scan stuff, the genetic
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information crosses over. So that's why those get mixed
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up. I've designed the front end of
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every Cargill beef plant North America.
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And I worked with a lot of really talented welders.
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Machinery, designers, people have E patents.
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And I'm going to estimate that about 20 percent or so, of the
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people I've worked with that were laying out entire big
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factors. We go autistic dyslexic or ADHD,
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and I am saying that seriously and want to worst thing to
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schools did is take out all the Hands-On classes, yet auto shop
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welding art cooking sewing woodworking because they're all
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classes, you can lead to really good careers.
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And in the u.s. right now, we've got a huge short too high.
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And skilled trades and people that can fix equipment in
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factories. Run Logistics, problems is that
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horrible Supply Chain management problems and and you need people
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like me who can't do Algebra to help make stuff work.
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Yeah, hundred percent. That's super important as well.
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So like, you know, a lot of what your work is based on like your
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own understanding of who you are and your kind of autistic, you
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know, reality, I guess. Why do you think it's important
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to share the knowledge that You've learned about yourself,
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you know with other people because I think it helped other
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people. I see too many parents and maybe
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this is more of a problem in my country than yours.
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I'm not sure. But a lot of parents over
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protect their kid that I see situations, we have a smart kid
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in high school, doing really well.
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Who's never gone shopping. Never had a bank account.
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Not learning. Just the basics of life.
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I was shopping when I was 17 and people say to me, well, why did
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you tell about your own experiences?
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You see my mind thinks in specific examples verbal, things
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are very top-down, okay, you got a lot of life skills but when I
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look back at things I was taught my generation like having an
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allowance and learning how to save for toy airplane.
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I'm realizing. Now the really important skills
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that that, that, that taught me and and kids are not having
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that. And that's why I came out with
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some other kids books like outdoor.
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Scientists get kids off the devices.
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That's sad and get them outside doing things.
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We got to get these kids doing things and there are often
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reluctant to do things but being a bottom-up thinker when I was a
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teenager, I didn't have very much data in the database so I'd
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make associations that were kind of nonsense and as I got older
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and I got exposed to more and more things than I could think
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better. And I've had parents say to me
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when they finally got their kid out on the first job.
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They'll say maybe just don't tell me.
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He just Blossom that's because he's getting exposed to more
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things. Now for good first jobs we got
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to avoid multitasking, don't stick them on the McDonald's
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takeout window. Also any task that involves
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verbal sequence. Give them a written Pilots
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checklist of the sequence. I cannot remember long strings
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of verbal information. Never happen table.
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Again, you know, it's really interesting because I think
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there's a lot of that, you know, like one of the things that I'd
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say is strength in my life. I can relate to what you're
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saying is that when I was, when I was a kid, I was see not being
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diagnosed with autism, until I was in my twenties.
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My parents took me to a mainstream school, right?
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And they were just like, okay, go to this club, do that thing.
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And I was forced to be in the circle, so I learnt loads of
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those things, like, you know, being a, you know, a kid in, I
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wasn't bubble rough. Basically, and I always felt a
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little bit about this before we started recording, but my
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parents never bubble wrap. They just kind of pushed me out
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there and I think one of the okay, yeah it was a bit of a
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struggle. Like the social interaction,
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like you said, you know, I was a bit more of a robot and kids
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don't really understand me but you know I learned so much from
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being in those situations. I think that's super important
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that it's nice. That you talked about that.
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Well, I think it's really important because I have a lot
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of grandparents to come up to me in.
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Good jobs engineers, accountants some various different jobs and
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they discover they're on the Spectrum, when the kids get
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diagnosed and there's quite a few older adults.
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Get relieved when they get a diagnosis because it explains
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the relationship on problems. The other thing for me was
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getting bullied and teased the place where I had friends was
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friends who shared interests. I can't emphasize that enough.
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Friends through shared interests and high school for me.
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It was horseback riding and model rocket club, and
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electronics lab. And for somebody else, it might
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be our at might be music on could require.
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It could be a lot of different things yanno.
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I, you know, I did a I do this little course on my website and
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one of them is how to how to make friends, and I'm trying to
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teach, you know, the Parents try and and encourage those shared
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interest classes. Like if it's a Minecraft group
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or if it's a he said for some Modeling club or you know,
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Pokemon cup Club, it's those kind of shared interest that
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you're going to build that relationship with because it's
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going to be effortless communication, right?
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You're Going to already know like each other like your
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writings and the that's absolutely right.
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And that's where those are places.
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I had friends in fact, one enterprising mom with Minecraft.
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I had a bunch of wood blocks cut up and had the kids paint and
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sand them that Minecraft blocks in the driveway, or you could
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save up the boxes from all the other Home.
13:45
Deliveries, you get tape them up and paint them and have giant
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Minecraft blocks. That's cool idea.
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And that's something. It's really easy to do and this
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one kid became the hit of the neighborhood with his Minecraft
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blocks. Well that's cool.
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That's very cool. I know it's funny.
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I have a strong relationship with Minecraft because I did my
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dissertation or thesis in chemistry.
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I actually built a teaching tool in Minecraft to teach kids how
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to use a referral. Ocular symmetry.
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In group Theory, which is quite a difficult thing for some
14:17
people to grasp. But now, are you working in
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chemistry right now? I'm not currently no, I'm a
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social media. Influencer, which is, you know,
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like this Channel and my social media channels and stuff.
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So that's what I do now but I don't, you know, unfortunately I
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was going to do my PhD and they closed the chemistry department
14:30
down in my local University. So that's too bad.
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Yeah, it was it was it was me, I'd do a lot of Consulting but
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autism now. But I still think it's important
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to still be a professor of animal science.
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I teaching my class, we're back now with masks on in-person
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classes, wonderful doing person lab last week, cattle handling,
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and still do Reese doing research, projects, involving
14:55
animals, horses and cattle, and I think it's important, you
15:00
know, like to have some, some other career other than autism
15:04
100,000. Yeah.
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I totally agree because it's kind of like a, it's, the
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outlet, isn't it? Like, I love researching and
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stuff like that. So I love researching different
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types of kind of more like biochemistry stuff, and it's
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just such a nice, such a nice Outlet, to do stuff like that.
15:18
And I think you're right, you know, maybe I should go should
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do more. All right, so need to get I
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think you need to get your Chemistry models out there.
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I'm also want to emphasize, I'm sorry about interrupting, this
15:28
is a problem. I still have, I cannot tame on
15:32
my processor speeds to slowly cannot time.
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What exactly to cut into a conversation?
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Okay, that's not a problem. I do the same thing, so I think
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we're just going to just as for 20 minutes cook talking over
15:43
each other. But you know, in terms of the
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book, you talk a lot about something called the whole
15:49
child. What is what Is it what?
15:53
What's up? Guys are so vital.
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Like, what do you mean? Can you explain a little bit
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that I do have a problem? And why cases?
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They just got, look at the label and they don't look at other
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things about the child. Maybe he's good at music or good
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at math or, or Rum or like some other, you know, interest and
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other things. He's good at on, they just
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wanted the lock house. I'm and, and you need to look
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Way Beyond that. Yeah, it's like a I think you
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mean it's like looking at the person as a whole rather than
16:22
Something about love small section that you know you can
16:24
control right. It's like what else can we do
16:26
here? What else can this to?
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I'm seeing too many people getting sort of locked into the
16:30
medical model and then they kind of assume a child can't do
16:34
anything. And we need to getting these
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kids out doing more stuff, mother, always give me choices
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and then she realized that when I got tired, the big noisy
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environments, you know, I might start screaming, it's kind of
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had a good sense of how to stretch me, giving me choices to
16:49
do things. Like when I was a teenager,
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Major, I was afraid to go to my aunt's Ranch and that's one of
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the reasons why I got into the cattle industry and my mother
17:00
said you can go for a we can go all summer.
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Not going snot option like you hate it in, come back in a week
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she always gave me some choices. She had a very good sense of how
17:11
to stretch me without throwing me into a situation where it
17:14
would just be too overwhelming to handle.
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It, got out to the ranch and I loved, it sounds like your
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mother really understood who You were right.
17:23
My parents really didn't unfortunately but it sounds like
17:26
your mother really got who you were.
17:27
You know, she's very in tune with you from what you're
17:29
saying. Well, she was, she's very much
17:32
visual thinker. She was doing a lot of like semi
17:35
professional theater stuff. When I was a child.
17:38
There's a very artistic little school Fair.
17:42
She helped them put on plays and, and she was very, very
17:47
creative. No, it's lovely.
17:48
It's lovely. So, um, you know, you advocate
17:52
for Customized interventions, right?
17:53
For children with ASD. What, what do you mean by that?
17:57
I would love to kind of get more.
17:58
Well, let's say sensory problems, for example are really
18:02
really burn one kids got Sound Sensitivity.
18:05
Another kid may have visual sensitivity where certain
18:08
fluorescent lights, LED lights, will flicker, you know that
18:11
would be an example of something customized.
18:14
One of the things is known now is that sensory, integration
18:17
types, things The Heirs of sensory integration that is now
18:20
an evidence-based treatment That you would do a long speech
18:23
therapy or behavior therapy or some other thing on.
18:28
Also, I always say to parents, you need to have an Effective
18:32
Teacher and what's that you get funders of, it's little kids,
18:36
more speech, more turn-taking. I was taught how to wait and
18:40
take turns more basic skills. I always ask parents they said,
18:45
well, should be in that program or that program when I always
18:48
ask, is your kid in proving, okay, tell me how much more
18:51
species gotten I don't like abstract stuff on thing.
18:55
I learned in 25 years in steel and concrete and mechanical
18:58
Construction in factories, I don't like abstractions.
19:02
Okay tell me exactly how he's progressed.
19:05
You know, less Tantrums other sensory problems getting you
19:09
know less severe kind of dress himself, they learning shopping.
19:15
Hey Yeah, things I can visualize you see, I don't think
19:19
abstractly thing. I'm learning about the verbal
19:21
thinker the regular neurotypical verbal thinker because they had
19:24
a big over generalization, but they don't how to implement
19:29
things, you see, both my mind, the visual thinker and your
19:32
mind, the math thinker. We're bottom-up.
19:34
Thinkers concepts are formed from specific examples and you
19:38
get a whole bunch of specific examples and you can put them in
19:41
different categories. And and a verbal thing is very,
19:47
very top down and they don't plan.
19:50
Okay, we're supposed to have an inclusive school.
19:53
Well, how do we do this? You see, when I think about that
19:56
and thinking about, well, here's the situation that did not work
19:59
and I see it. And here's another situation.
20:01
That worked fine. One teacher started Star Wars
20:04
Club, because autistic kid like Star Wars and that enabled him
20:08
to get friends. That was a really simple thing
20:11
to do. But that's Specific of I'm
20:16
addicted to specific example of something that worked because
20:19
I've had people write on the chat will Temple just um but
20:23
talks about her own experiences or I'll talk about somebody
20:25
else's experiences. Yeah but why mine works in
20:29
specific examples. Yeah of course I'll tell you
20:32
something that does not work for job.
20:34
Take an 18 year old girl shove her in a chaotic busy clothing
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store Christmas time as a first job and you start at Christmas
20:42
time that did not work. Work.
20:44
No no that was yeah I wouldn't say that was a good thing to do.
20:47
That would have. That was a bad mistake I and I
20:49
talked about family so that was a bad mistake.
20:51
Yeah. Well let's try something quieter
20:53
like the clothing store. Not at Christmas time.
20:58
Here's a success. There's an autistic item auto
21:01
parts store and that's relatively quiet.
21:03
I've been in the auto parts store here and they loved him.
21:06
He didn't need the computer. He memorized every part number
21:08
for every part. The warehouse.
21:11
That's excellent. No, no, it's good.
21:12
It's good example. Okay, so here's his last
21:15
question, about the book. Then in the book, you kind of
21:17
focus on different types of medical conditions that are
21:20
associated with autism and so how can you know additional
21:24
conditions impact or effect the child's progress of their
21:27
artistic? Well, let's look at Walker's.
21:29
Let's let's check for epilepsy. Okay, that is a you know I hate
21:34
the word told more than I think some awful perm.
21:37
It's a weird term, isn't it? I threw it means when two
21:40
conditions can exist. Yeah.
21:43
To me, it sounds like something's dead.
21:45
Yeah, that's what I said, a lot of medical terminology.
21:48
I don't really like what you can get or ADHD and autism often.
21:53
Go together, you can get OCD in autism together,
21:58
gastrointestinal problems and autism.
22:01
Tend to tend to go together. There's research that shows
22:04
that. Yes, you know, so those are
22:06
example, autoimmune problems. I have genetic testing done on
22:11
me and it explained why I'm missing.
22:13
Adult teeth. I've got small teeth.
22:15
My skin is messed up in my brittle nails just break off on.
22:20
What's been learned about. The autism is many many, many
22:24
genes contribute to that same genes that make the brain big in
22:29
humans. Here are the same gene involved
22:32
with schizophrenia and autism, there's hundreds of them.
22:36
It's polygenic. What's that mean?
22:37
Lots of little tiny bits of code contribute.
22:40
Yeah. Simpler genetics explains.
22:43
Why I have brittle nails that that's simple genetics and I
22:48
also learn from it that I had a bleeding disorder and if I ever
22:51
have a hip replacement they have to be very careful.
22:53
Not to give me too much Heparin. Like if lead to death wow
22:57
doesn't that I learned from it that my life?
23:00
Yeah goodness me, you know II actually have some Mike comb
23:05
over it maiko existing conditions so I have ADHD which
23:11
I take medication for. I also have dyslexia Here.
23:15
And I also have extreme eczema as well.
23:17
So my skin, I thought that to her child.
23:21
Yes to that. That tends to go together.
23:24
See that kind of fits in with a lot of the kind of auto immune
23:29
abnormalities and things like that but another thing is, a lot
23:33
of famous scientists and on musicians and stuff I've been
23:37
looking up Michelangelo. Isaac Newton on.
23:42
Tesla. The inventor of the ecosystem.
23:45
Yeah, Edison also said it right. Gimme More cognitive or thinking
23:54
or break me so much more social emotional.
23:57
We have statistics processor space for this stuff.
24:00
I tend to be more thinking, like I find it really interesting.
24:03
Is that have long conversations about animal behavior or long?
24:07
Come conversations about supply chain Logistics.
24:10
Hmm, I just find the stuff like Really, super interesting, hmm,
24:15
I totally agree with things like that.
24:16
Like I can talk for hours about things, a lot of the time as a
24:20
marketing, you know, online marketing and SEO building and
24:23
how how you Market a product online.
24:26
I just love talking about that stuff.
24:27
I actually consult with, with companies about that.
24:30
You know, some of my other side hustle and I had loved it, you
24:32
know. And some of the companies they
24:34
were like, oh, you know, we just starting up.
24:35
We've got a lot of money, I say, look, I'm going to do it because
24:37
I love doing it, you know, I just love talking about it and
24:40
and, and try different things and testing things because As
24:42
you know, like you said about the supply chain, it on the
24:45
internet, you know, to Market a product on the Internet, you
24:48
know what if say you're watching a course or a book, there's a
24:50
certain line of distribution that happens there, and that has
24:54
to be optimized. And I can remember when all the
24:56
internet on the internet, all start everybody, just thought it
25:00
was just going to be in a computer.
25:02
Well, you have huge warehouses that, that create the supply
25:08
chain. Yeah.
25:08
Yeah. Huge data centers full of, you
25:11
know, on Miles and Miles. Of a computer servers.
25:14
Yeah. You know I can take warehouses
25:16
and then I like to ask young students where the movies live
25:20
online. Oh yeah, ask them that.
25:23
And some will say, in a satellite power.
25:28
I'm going really? And then some will say yes
25:31
server but then when I show them, how big the warehouse full
25:34
of servers, is it just blows their mind?
25:36
Yeah, it's unbelievable. I think, I think Facebook's got
25:39
some servers in Alaska and they've opened top just a cool
25:41
up, cool them down. Down.
25:42
Well, that's the problem. You see.
25:43
And they put him in cold places but there's a huge physical
25:48
infrastructure. Yeah.
25:49
It's just, it's a moment and one of the problems we've got today,
25:53
with a lot of young people, because we've taken out the
25:55
Practical things you got young people that are going to rob
25:59
him, make policy about stuff and they don't have any idea how
26:02
anything works. And you listen I can't even
26:05
work. Yeah.
26:08
In my class that who had never measured anything with a ruler
26:13
that was this year. Oh my goodness.
26:18
That is unbelievable. Unbelievable.
26:21
Wow. So Temple.
26:24
Your book when is this one is the book out.
26:27
Is it already? And I can we can say the u.s. is
26:30
going to be My own book thinking and pictures were talk at my own
26:43
autobiography and it's just come out with a new afterward.
26:46
Oh, cool new update. It afterward and you can get
26:49
these Anonymous on. I'm guessing.
26:51
Yes, yeah, they all everything. I have everything that I have
26:53
and then Deborah. More also has another book.
26:55
I worked with her on the loving push and one of the things we
26:58
discussed in that book. Yeah.
27:00
All the problems with video game addiction, I'm saying so many
27:03
kids get addicted to video games and they're not getting jobs are
27:06
not working for game companies. They're just playing video games
27:09
all day and I tell parents you've got to get that under
27:12
control. You don't panic but it's got to
27:15
be. Yeah, it's going to be
27:17
structured and because there are not having good outcomes.
27:22
No, you know I did a I did a documentary with a BBC about
27:27
about that exact thing. And it was a, it was like a it
27:30
was almost aimed towards teenagers and we were trying to
27:32
get them to realize the difficulties that you may have a
27:35
few become addicted to video games and that's all you do.
27:38
And it was startling the figures of people who are addicted to
27:40
video games, it's a it's something and there's we're
27:45
here, which I were, there's been some successes.
27:47
I know of three young adults, weaned off of video games.
27:51
It was replaced with auto mechanics, okay, because a lot
27:54
of visual thinkers of our good with mechanical things and one
27:57
of now works for railroad and fixes trains and they really
28:01
like them on and it tends to be some of the visual thinkers and
28:04
math Bankers, that are getting addicted to on the verbal
28:06
thinkers. Probably do.
28:08
Care that much about them. And in autism, you can get all
28:10
three of the different kinds of thinking.
28:12
And the difference, it was an autistic person is will be an
28:15
extreme visualizer or an extreme visual-spatial math person, or
28:20
an extreme verbal person. So-called normal people are more
28:23
mixtures of the different kinds of thinking.
28:26
Yeah. Scientific research that shows
28:28
us actually exist but we got to wean them off and replace that
28:31
video game with something else and I'm not saying it auto
28:34
mechanics is for everybody but the my kind of mind.
28:37
Yeah. They mechanical thing is really
28:40
a good, a really good feel for. I worked with people that signed
28:43
equipment like, for me factories and they were my kind of mind.
28:49
I worked with a guy was a stutterer autistic dyslexic.
28:52
Terrible student, took a single welding course.
28:55
Now owns a big metal fabrication company, and sells his
28:59
equipment, around the world, he smokes.
29:01
He, this is what makes me kind of crazy as I go back and forth
29:04
between the autism world and the industrial world.
29:07
Yeah. Dude you know, I it's fast like
29:10
I think I could talk to you for hours about everything because
29:13
we have quite a long bone. So where could people find you?
29:19
I you have a website or do you have like a website and I have
29:26
grand. And.com is my livestock website,
29:30
I've got books listed on, both of them.
29:31
Amazon has got all my books. Also, I'm a professor of animal
29:36
science at Colorado State University.
29:38
And I can be tracked down through the University website.
29:41
Excellent. Okay.
29:42
And do you have any social media handles?
29:45
A lot of the people handle that. Okay, maybe I'm really showing
29:49
my age here but I'm not, but one thing I do is I try to answer
29:54
correspondence. And and the other thing I've
30:00
tried to do is write up a lot of stuff.
30:02
I've got saw the book, the way I see it on a lot of little short
30:06
chapters solve. Its Mike Rance.
30:09
One of the things I've discussed and and thinking in pictures, is
30:14
I take medication. I've been on antidepressants for
30:17
anxiety for since 1980, they saved me.
30:21
Yeah. And if anybody's interested in
30:25
that, I really strong recommend reading thinking in pictures
30:27
because I don't want any misunderstanding about the
30:30
medication. So I'd rather have you read it.
30:32
I'd love to read. Actually, I might yeah that's a
30:34
day and thinking in pictures. And you get into all this
30:38
discussion about medication and you get the same discussion
30:40
about dogs because Prozac works on bulldogs and it works on
30:45
people. And should you give dogs Prozac?
30:49
Well, let's give the dog more exercise and more interaction
30:53
with people first. See how he gets them all in that
30:56
state, you know. I'm, but on the other hand, I
30:59
can't think totally against medication.
31:03
You've got a dog comes in, is totally scared or tears, apart
31:06
of that. Like you know, that it might be
31:08
good to give it a sedative before you bring it in.
31:11
But that doesn't mean whatever we got it.
31:14
This is where the sensible thing to do is something sort of more
31:18
in the middle. There's way too many medications
31:20
give out the young children, way too much way too much, way too
31:23
much medications with bad side effects.
31:27
Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, you know, that's a whole
31:29
different topic but, you know, I can agree with you.
31:32
I started taking medication about four years ago because I
31:36
got 20 a point where because having ADHD and autism, kind of
31:40
like it was just, it was just bad, you know?
31:43
It was a bad kid, I just couldn't wrap myself out of a
31:45
bad condition. So I started taking an
31:48
antidepressant that was kind of designed and treated for people
31:51
who were diagnosed with Asperger's.
31:53
Right. Which is what my diagnosis was
31:55
and it's so far, you know, I feel great.
31:57
You know, it's really helping me a lot.
31:59
Well, that's good. And I want on old-fashioned
32:01
elderly person that sold this before project and stuff like
32:05
that was invented. I want to warn you low doses.
32:08
Yeah, often too often. I've had people say, oh, you did
32:12
great on a low dose, would double the dose and then you got
32:16
agitation insomnia, the other big mistake people make.
32:19
Once they get stable on a really good Med is any oh, I can go
32:23
off. This seems real message with
32:26
that. Yeah, I was thinking of
32:28
recently, I had to think that if you're great, you know, maybe I
32:30
could, you know, but I don't think it's not a good thing.
32:33
And, you know, I did it because I'm not like I'm against
32:35
medication. I just thought Like I'm quite a,
32:37
I'm going to, you know, muscle through this, I'm going to
32:39
figure out these problem for self, but it got to a point
32:41
where it was kind of breaking point.
32:43
You know, I just felt so died was so low that sitting, what
32:46
happened to me is I was a went through my 20s, I got more and
32:50
more and more anxious, just over nothing.
32:53
And my health was coming apart colitis attacks, I just wouldn't
32:58
stop all kinds of stress related health problems and I want on
33:03
the antidepressant and three days later on.
33:06
It was Wow, this works now. Depression doesn't left in three
33:10
days but my problem was anxiety that lifted within three days.
33:13
And that's why the chapter in taking a picture is called a
33:16
Believer and biochemistry. Yeah.
33:19
On they cuz it was wow. And you get the right match.
33:24
One little Matt. That's all I came and and I can
33:30
I can I can totally agree because, you know, I got to a
33:34
point. My anxiety is so bad that when
33:35
the mailman wood between 8 and like 9:30 in the morning, the
33:40
mailman would post a let's just do the door but it makes me so
33:42
anxious. I'll just be I just couldn't
33:45
concentrate on getting anxious over.
33:46
Nothing. You see.
33:48
And that's the same thing that was made any little thing.
33:52
I was just having a panic attack over it.
33:55
Yeah. I kind of look at it like okay,
33:57
there's an old if you know, old-fashioned carburetors, I've
34:01
got an idle adjustment screw. Yep.
34:04
Well, it was like my fear Center and I've So our brain scans that
34:07
my fear centers three times larger than normal was revving
34:12
up. Like just the RPM meter just
34:15
maxing out and and then when I took the the medication it like
34:22
turned the idle adjustment, screw on the old-fashioned
34:25
carburetor and I still have cycles of anxiety.
34:31
But instead of going to have to use English measurements here,
34:35
200 miles an hour Our to 100 miles an hour.
34:38
I'm now going 100 miles an hour to 75 miles an hour.
34:42
Yellow Earth is still Cycles, but it like wrapped everything
34:48
down and I don't know what would have happened to my health.
34:53
If I had not taken the medication, I would have had to
34:57
have, you know, really invasive treatments to get the client
35:01
stopped and the cleitus, almost completely cleared up.
35:05
Wow, what I went on. Medication.
35:07
Still now have a little bit of problems with it but it's very
35:10
minor compared to what it used to be so incredible.
35:13
And so, yeah, I mean, you know, that's kind of working with very
35:17
well. Well, they can work really well
35:18
and then and then used wrong. I see way too many bad things
35:23
where I'll talk to parent in the kids on, like seven medications.
35:26
Yeah. And I asked the parents well,
35:28
what kind of thought went into it?
35:31
Now, I'm finding out that they were just throwing prescriptions
35:33
at it. Throw three meds at it at the
35:35
time. Yeah.
35:36
Sort of trying something carefully and seeing what's
35:40
going to work, you don't start three of them at the same time.
35:43
And I find when I talked to him, is no thought went into it.
35:48
Yeah, that is the problem. Yeah, and a lot of the time, the
35:51
doctors is trying to sell them at it every day because they got
35:53
there's somebody taking a commission somewhere in the same
35:55
we'll try this one out and so well, true.
35:59
But I think some of it also is just get them to quiet down, get
36:03
out of my office and throw a prescription at it because I had
36:07
talked to a lot of low-income families.
36:10
And that's where I really see some of these problems.
36:13
And the doctor super busy and doesn't have time that
36:16
carefully. Ask the Was on troubleshooting.
36:19
Yeah yeah there's no one. Yeah it's more of a conveyor
36:22
belt right here. Just easier to hear from you
36:23
guys. That's the problem and and and
36:27
the other thing I'm finding on a lot of these things.
36:29
Some people say, well Meda terrible should.
36:31
Never use them mmm-hmm or just drown everybody and meds.
36:35
Yeah, let's go bones. I'm supposed thing to do was the
36:38
younger, the child less meds. I like to use, but I was one of
36:42
these young adults where let's say think a single little men
36:47
save me. And I think yeah that's that's a
36:50
good thing to say because I think there's a fine line yet.
36:54
There's you have to have that balance between like, finding
36:56
the right amount of medication, but the right just testing the
36:59
one that you need. You don't need to drown yourself
37:01
in medication to feel better or even to just, you know, help
37:03
with the situation. You just need the right one at
37:05
the right time. But yeah, and the only side
37:08
effect basically have is I have to drink a lot of water but
37:11
that's a side effect. I can live with and you've got
37:14
to get in there. A whole bunch of different
37:19
medications in the same medication class.
37:22
You can try different ones and they're slightly different.
37:26
I'm just different enough so they don't violate each other's
37:29
patents. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had to stop
37:31
taking a sleep medications to take my, my kind of prescription
37:35
medication, because they would kind of overlap, and could be
37:38
all kinds of stuff going on. But anyway, I guess I could talk
37:41
to you for hours. The first thing I found that
37:44
helps. I have to do a burst of Hard.
37:48
Vigorous exercise every day. Hmm.
37:51
In order to sleep 100, sit-ups every night.
37:54
Hey them now is having sciatic nerve pain.
37:58
So I switched kind of push up things were but I've got to do
38:02
this burst of Hard Exercise walking doesn't do it.
38:06
Hmm, every day. And that also is very helpful.
38:10
I hear you. I have to do the same thing I
38:12
have to run at least like three miles to get that.
38:15
I do. I just I just that's what I had
38:17
what I just I had a run, had a shower and can't and then we did
38:20
this interview. So I totally understand the so
38:23
bizarre. How we have the same kind of
38:24
things, they have to have that? Like really intense because it's
38:27
intent because, you know, I was traveling all the time and
38:31
doing, you know, like I added up how much airport walking I was
38:34
doing and it was several kilometers.
38:38
Just wasn't walking and that just didn't seem to do it.
38:41
Hmm, I spent more time doing the airport.
38:44
Walking, then I did doing the first of Hard Exercise.
38:47
Sighs. And the first of Hard Exercise
38:51
was much more effective than walking.
38:53
Yeah, I still do walking for my back, like a.
38:56
When I was during all the lockdowns, I walk around the
38:59
neighborhood every day just for my for my back.
39:01
But I've been getting back out on the road, travel him
39:05
traveling in the US and loving it, right?
39:08
That's a gun. And thank you so much for coming
39:10
on the show. I'm sure everyone's going to be
39:12
interested in this new book. I will leave all the links that
39:14
we discussed in the show notes on the description of the
39:16
videos. So please check out of Brandon's
39:19
book. The new book which is navigating
39:21
autism very excited for you guys to check that out.