Latest / Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder / Career Pivots: Insights from Stefanie Reichman, an Unconventional Engineer

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Career Pivots: Insights from Stefanie Reichman, an Unconventional Engineer · Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The thing that you need to answer for yourself is why am I doing this?
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: The reason I got my PE is because it was one of those things that, for me, was like.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: It was the pinnacle of what I could achieve in my engineering career.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: It was something I had dreamed about since I was in college.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: It was something that, at the end of the day, I had to prove to myself that I could do.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: And the day I passed, my bosses didn't care.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't get a raise, I didn't get care in her office, nothing happened for me.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: There was certainly like an amount of frustration over that or disappointment, and, at the end of the day, the reason I got my PE is because in every room I'm going to walk into for the rest of my career, I can walk in and say I'm Stephanie and I'm a professional engineer, and nobody can take it away from me.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: What is going on?
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: L&m family.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I am super excited to introduce to you my friend, ms Stephanie Reichman.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: If you are flirting with the idea of making a career pivot, ms Stephanie has got what you need.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: She can help you get there.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: She's got a PE license License that's the right way to say it right which isn't a small thing.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: It's actually a pretty monumental thing, which means she's like practicing engineer and she's never done a day of engineering, because she has the courage to make ginormous shifts in her life so that she can continue to grow and serve in big, meaningful ways.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm super excited that you get to talk to her so I can learn from her as well.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And if you don't know who I am, I'm Jesse.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I get to host this learnings and missteps podcast, where I get to highlight the windy paths successful people walk and pull some of the lessons they learned along the way so you can take them and apply them to your path.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And with that, miss Stephanie, how are you doing, sister?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Hi, jancy.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: That is such a phenomenal intro.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Your energy just like exudes, and I am here for it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: We've obviously had some conversation before this.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I always look forward to our chat.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Even if I'm having not the best day ever, I know that talking to you is going to put a giant smile on my face.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So thank you for what you do.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Super excited to be here.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Well, we might as well give the audience a heads up, right Like you and I, every time we get to talking, we get to talking.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: So hang on, people, we're going to have some fun here today.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So, stephanie, you and I connected on LinkedIn, which which that seems to be a theme with most of the awesome guests that I have here that we've connected on LinkedIn in some form or fashion, and I don't know.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: From my perspective, it looks like you just slammed on the gas with this pivot, your career thing, which I think is beautiful.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: So many people need it because they're wrapped up, they kind of have handcuffs and but they're imaginary, like they're in their head, and you're helping them with that.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: So I absolutely want to talk about that, what you're doing now, all the things you have to offer.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I absolutely want to learn how you got there, and I'd like to start with what are the juicy, savory nuggets that people need to know about?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: You miss step, stephanie.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, that was a lot to unpack, but we'll start maybe with the end.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Everyone loves to talk about themselves, so I'll start there.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Juicy Nugget, I'm originally from Staten Island, new York.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Staten Island used to be just nothing, but then there was the Jersey Shore and Pete Davidson and now Staten Island's cool again, so I'm originally from there.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: When I had to take a major for college, I had no idea what to do.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I was super confused.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: My older brother is an engineer and when he told people he was an engineer, everyone would have the exact same reaction.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Everyone would say wow, you must be so smart.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And as a middle child and seeing that a couple of years older than me, I was like what's the thing I can do?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: That too, I'm smart.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: There are like so many flaws in that whole thought process, but that didn't actually get me to engineering.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate all those white-eyed people.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: So I do have a civil engineering degree, an undergrad and a master's, because I just love school so much.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, I think I joked about this at some point, like if you're really confused about your career, just go get a master's.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It's terrible advice, don't do it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: So what I want to dig on that a little.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to cut you off, but because I've had so many conversations with people that are stuck or frustrated or not having the best experience and they default to well, I'm going to go get my master's.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And then it's almost as if there's this line of think that, well, say, a pathway that says if you get your master's, then your experience is going to be better in the field that you're at.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Where does that?
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Is it because you gave everybody that advice?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Or like, where do you think that comes from?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Let me clarify that I grew up in a household where it was very expected for me to get a master's, and it was a disappointing time when I announced I was not getting a PhD.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So that's where I grew up from Now, when I got my master's, I thought it was going to mean certain things for me in my career.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I thought when I was going to start looking for a job I would have a line out the door of employers just begging me to come work for them at a six-figure salary right out of school.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And that didn't happen.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Far from it.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: It was not at all what happened.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I also now very often get that question of I'm kind of stuck in my career, I don't know what's next.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about getting a master's or a certificate.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: What do you recommend?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: What do you suggest?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And I hate that question because, I agree with you, it's almost ingrained in us Go.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And I hate that question because, I agree with you, it's almost ingrained in us Go, do this extra thing.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And then suddenly all these things will happen.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: And in my own experience and the experience of people around me, the people that I've worked with, that's just not the case.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I think if your employer says to you I'm going to pay for you to get this degree so that you can move into this role.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Heck, you can go for it if you've stopped the capabilities for it, but to just stop working, lose out on that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: It's a huge financial aspect to it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Master's programs are not cheap, and so I think it's really important to realize that you're going to dedicate a year, two years to a degree or certification, whatever it might be.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Without any guarantees is a really scary place to be.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I agree and I want to be clear.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I applaud people that make the sacrifice to do that, because a lot of people are doing it with a family, maintaining a job, like they're taking on the load, and that's tremendous sacrifice, tremendous effort, tremendous commitment and it doesn't always work out.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have several friends that have their EdD and education and higher level degrees, post-grad degrees, and they needed it and it has 100% amplified their career path.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But I have a lot of friends that same thing and it just it's just more letters at the end of their name.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: So, trying to figure out which way to go, I wonder what is?
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: What are some of the criteria that people should consider, since you've walked that path?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've actually walked the path twice now, one with the degree and once with the certification, so I can come at it from two different directions.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: But just like to back up a little bit.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I got my professional engineering license three years ago now and it was the same thing.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: The reason, I think, or the thing that you need to answer for yourself, is why am I doing this?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: So, if I'm walking back, the reason I got my PE is because it was one of those things that, for me, was like it was the pinnacle of what I could achieve in my engineering career.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It was something I had dreamed about since I was in college.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: It was something that, at the end of the day, I had the proof to myself that I could do.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I love that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And the day I passed, my bosses didn't care.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't get a raise, I didn't get care in her office, nothing happened for me.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: But and yes, there was certainly like an amount of frustration over that or disappointment.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, the reason I got my PE is because in every room I'm going to walk into for the rest of my career, I can walk in and say I'm Stephanie and I'm a professional engineer and nobody can take it away from me Nobody, and that's why I did it.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: The master's, in a sense, was also kind of the same reason, but I did both those things entirely for myself.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I committed a ton of time to doing them.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Was it the right decision?
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: For somebody else, probably not, but for me it was, and I think it really has to be a feeling thing more than anything.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And the realization that a master's is certification, those do kind of walk alongside you for your entire career, should you choose to utilize them.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: That's like it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: No, I think two things you said that are ultra powerful.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: One is kind of stinky powerful and one is real power, like for real.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: They can't, nobody can take that away from you, and you did it to prove to yourself.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: That was the thing, and I think that's beautiful, because there's so many different things, so many different challenges that we can pick, or that we sit on the edge of picking because we're afraid or we are not sure, but when we actually do the damn thing, then it's man, I got game Like I can.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: This thing in front of me is not as big because I just did this thing over here.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: The not so beautiful thing is like the rest of the world doesn't care.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: You said like your bosses, they didn't get you a, you didn't get the corner office, you didn't get the special park, you just went back to work and kept doing the same thing I worked with back in the day one of my team members had just got his plumbing license and it's a big deal, right Like he did his stuff that he needed to do, went down to the state board of plumbing examiners here in Texas, took the test, passed the test, got his journeyman's license and I believed he should get a raise.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So I called the boss, like boss, and said hey, so-and-so just passed this thing and we need to give him something.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And the words that boss said back were why are we going to get?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: He's the same dumb ass he was yesterday and I was like, okay, but that's not cool, that's just not cool and it's kind of true.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And so in there, I think there's this thing about intrinsic motivation.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Right, if we pursue certain certificates, degrees, et cetera, and we're doing it that's motivated by an extrinsic situation, I think we're setting ourselves up for disappointment.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And before we get to know a little bit more about Miss Stephanie, I want to do the L&M family shout out to Mr Adam Hoots, dj Hooty Hoots, he left me this cool little thought.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: He said this book will have you reflecting on your own life and the learnings and missteps you took.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Solid work, jesse, and the book he's talking about is Becoming the Promise you Are Intended to Be.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: So, hoots, thank you, and the rest of the L&M family members out there, shoot me a comment, a DM, it doesn't matter.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I want to highlight you as much and as often as I possibly can.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I definitely agree with that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I will say, with your plumbing example, I think it kind of takes it to the next level of, once you do all those things, that's not where the work ends for you.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Those things, that's not where the work ends for you.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Once you're done, you need to restart the cycle and start advocating for yourself, because you aren't the same dumb ass you were yesterday, because you're now a dumb ass plus your plumbing license, and that is a difference.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is a big one.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Is that a class that you took in your master's course, or how did you learn and master how to advocate for yourself?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So I feel, like all these sets of things, it probably has something to do with my childhood, but in all seriousness, this is totally a tangent, but I was actually.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I'm an immigrant.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I was born overseas and moved to New York when I was nine and I didn't speak any English and was like wow, this is kind of strange, because nobody can speak the languages that I'm conversing in, and I need to figure it out Because otherwise I will always be the weirdo using colored pencils instead of crayons.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I still don't like crayons.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: That's so awesome.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: They're very triggering.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And I think it kind of got to that.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I saw it really early on where people would just assume that I wasn't good at math or I wasn't good at English, which I wasn't, or wasn't good at vocabulary or something like that, and teachers would make remarks or kids would make remarks and it would get to the point where it's no, I don't agree with you.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: And kind of looking around you and saying the teacher just said that Are you just going to take it?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Because, like, who else is going to stick up for you?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: My mom's not in the class.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I think it just kind of kept building on itself until yeah, myself until yeah, and had a lot of years of practice and advocating for myself.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it just came out of cheering me, don't looking around and being like are you gonna take again?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: No, I think I love that you take can connect it back to, like your, the experiences you had in your formative years, because a lot of stuff happens in that time.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Now there's a bigger conversation that we probably shouldn't touch about properly advocating for oneself and improperly advocating.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: My assumption is that you did it with tact.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Whereas you know me, stephanie, and the rest of the family out there knows me, I didn't.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: It was like I did it the worst way you possibly can and it didn't.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: It caused some pain, some learning pains for me, which was fine because it got me attention.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Attention is good, all attention is good.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Attention in Jesse land.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Now, under the assumption that you advocated for yourself with tact, in an amicable manner, did you still face some kind of judgment, resistance or friction when you do advocate for yourself, and how'd you deal with it?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great question.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So I think as my confidence level grew, especially in my career, I had a degree like my engineering degree.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I take a lot of pride in that and that made me feel a certain type of way walking into a room the PEs of that too and I think as I gained that confidence, people around me were getting kind of uncomfortable by what I had already achieved, and I think that then causes a bit of an imbalance perceived imbalance because I might be asking for something that I think I'm worth because of my self-worth being tied to these things that I've accomplished, but other people aren't, don't have that kind of background and maybe they believe in the school of hard knocks and you should have this experience and you need to send 20 years' pay to your desk before you can even think about asking something like that.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And I'd come here that's amazing, though I'd be like no, I think I deserve a raise.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And so I think that there certainly has been a lot of like mismatches, like getting my porn across there, and my personal belief and and what I work with other people on is you can say anything you want, as long as it's the truth and you're being respectful.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: That's always been my guiding principle, and if someone can't accept that, if they can't accept the truth that you know a thing, but as long as you're being respectful, then you're having just a conversation about it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Not everything needs to be like, okay, we're getting ready for war, we're not getting ready for war, we are simply gonna have a for war, we are simply going to have a conversation as adults.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And it's the person that's refuting that conversation and they're melting up a war.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Well then, it's maybe not the right person, not the right time.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: They're just not open to having the conversation at all.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And it wouldn't matter if you had the 30 years of experience.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: They still don't want to have that conversation with you.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: There's some people that, jay, they just can't hear anything.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So it don't matter what the tone is or when you're going to have it, it's wasted breath, like they, just it's not going to penetrate.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Now, what would you recommend?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I get to talk with a lot of young professionals, and when I say young, I mean like the first 10 years of their career.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I think that's age-wise, that's not a lot of time.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Well, when you have highlights, like me, 10 years isn't a lot of time.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: But I see a curious thing and this is not a generational question, because I saw it when I was right out of high school, working in the field and so forth.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So it's a thing that's happened the whole way through.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: But I see some young professionals that will not advocate for themselves and they're utterly irritated, disappointed and frustrated because the environment doesn't accommodate them and that's not good for that mental wellness, right, that's really not good for them as an individual.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So they're pretty damn miserable.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: But when they advocate for themselves, I wouldn't qualify it as advocating, because it's really just complaining.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: When they complain and send an email to the CEO because nobody's listening to me, what do you suggest?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: That young professional that doesn't speak up for themselves, to their direct supervisor or to their immediate circle of colleagues and advocate for themselves.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: What do you recommend they do to start like to start doing it so that they can get some results, because I know you've done it like your career path shows that you're just not going to tolerate so much for so long.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: That's the way I'm reading.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you say?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: First of all, I love that question because I think it's really easy to go out there and say advocate for yourself and negotiate that salary, and then people are like, yeah, but then you're kind of left with I don't know how or what, or like even how to talk about that.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: So love that question.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's a couple different pieces.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: First of all, for me, especially in my working kind of career, when I learned flash understood what well-employment meant, that was like a mindset You're excited, yes, because I think, because I have a lot of friends they work in like different industries, different jobs, and so often it'll be like years of I hate this and my boss sucks and I'm not getting the promotion, I'm not getting the raise, and every single time it's the same question why don't you leave?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: You're not required to stay there.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Pn7, for anyone listening to this, if you don't like your job, you don't have to stay.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: It's not said enough.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I remember, like one of my jobs, that I wasn't getting the fulfillment that I had wanted and somebody close to me had said well, you should stay at this job for at least this number of years.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember being so taken aback because I was like, oh, I should, probably that makes sense.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be seen as like a job huffer or this or that.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: But in the meantime, to your earlier point, like your mental health is suffering, you're not happy, maybe you, maybe you've advocated, maybe you've had conversations, but like the company is just, it is what it is, and so at Will.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Employment.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Number one thing you can leave whenever you want my designation letter.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Don't burn any bridges, just say thank you and just move on.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Number one I want to say that is.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I know how difficult that is, but I also know that pick your boss right.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Pick the people you work with, because if they're buttheads it's not going to be fun.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Unless they're your flavor of butthead, it doesn't take long to figure out that you're in an unhealthy environment.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Right the conditions of the workspace, regardless of how fancy the damn website was and the recruiter made everything sound.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: When you actually go sit and share space, you can feel it and you don't have.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: You could leave, you can leave.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I think when you realize that you hold so much power you hold all the power of your own life, in your own career and being able to say I thought this was for me, but it's not there is so much power in that statement instead of saying like I'm gonna make it work, I'm to wait for the next review cycle, the next one's going to be mine I'm going to prove myself blah, blah, blah, because once those things start happening like it's not going to get better and I hate being the person to burst your bubble if you think that it is going to get better, but it probably isn't- oh, so true, so true.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Right to work, right to leave, like, just make your own conditions.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Now you and I have talked about it and, looking on your LinkedIn profile, you've made some significant shifts in terms of careers, so you're not just saying hypothetically make a better choice for yourself.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: You've done it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Was it easy?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: What was it like?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: What did it feel like when you made the first jump from?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I think you were in like an engineer and then it was like wait a minute, they this.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: They said vanilla, this ain't vanilla.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So I worked for a engineering company as a project manager and I saw it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: The reason I got my master's, the reason I really did my whole career up until that point, was to be a project manager.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So when I got to that point and became a project manager was like this is not fun.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it for several different reasons.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: It was a lot more stress than I wanted and a stress that I didn't enjoy and I maybe didn't really have the tools that I needed to be successful in that ring and that was really hard.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And I was very obsessed with title and that was really important to me was to have that project manager title because I thought that again, that was going to unlock the next level for me.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And so I went into that role without really thinking about like, how are they going to train me?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: How are they going to help me actually be successful?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: So when I realized that wasn't a job for me again in my civil engineering school days, it was only true path that, like an engineer, could go down.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: It was either you worked for an engineering company, which I had done I didn't like, or you can go work in construction, which I yeah, I had always really enjoyed construction.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I had four internships that were really construction heavy and I was like heck, yeah, let's go do it.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I actually started a virtual design and construction team for this general contractor, which again was like a very fancy title.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't consider training again Some people don't learn from their mistake that is me but I did have quite a bit of background in like that BDNC space, so I felt comfortable with that.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: How do I feel making that transition?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I was terrified.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I was yeah, I mean I was really excited.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I think I was a lot more cognizant of the fact that I didn't have this experience of like how to start a department.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: It was very exciting, but also really scary.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I think I had a lot of but I did it, I did it.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of support in the early days of what that vision looked like and then was able to run with it.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that pivot.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: The first time was pretty scary run with it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that pivot the first time was pretty scary.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, you said an arrangement of words that I think probably need to be my next neck tattoo.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: You said about your first job that it was stress, but it wasn't the kind of stress that you enjoy.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: So what I like about those words is there is no escaping stress.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, unless you know the secret, stress is just a part of life, but there's stress that sucks the life out of us.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: And then there's stress that you enjoy.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: So how would you describe the stress that you enjoy, stephanie and the reason I'm asking this is so that we can cause a little bit of a mind shift to the younglings out there that are listening to this it's not all bad.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Think about what it is and frame it in such a way that you can use it as fuel.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So, like, how would you describe the stress that you enjoy?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always love creative problem solving.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I always have.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's what drew me to engineering, kept me there, has pushed me in all these different roles.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I love a problem that I can sink my teeth into and come up with weird solutions.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: That is also stressful for me, though, because it's usually a problem I need to solve somewhat quickly.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I'll say that, like starting this little side business I have now, like coaching people, helping people, that brings with it a ton of creative stress and shirving.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: That I love, not only in the logistics of setting stuff up, but also talking with people and coaching them.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Like, every person is a little bit different, so I can't tell them.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: If I were you, I would do this and I'm defending an army of clones, but I really like to push the people I work with to really think about what do you enjoy in this job and what don't you enjoy, and really making a list of 10 things that you love and you hate.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: The first three or four are always really easy to come up with, but then the other ones get a little bit harder, and that's kind of where the magic is so a little tip there.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: No, I think that's helpful, like folks can sit there and make a list of what they enjoy, what they don't enjoy, to get clear about what, like those stressors are, because I mean, I kind of need stress, right, I like pressure, I like to be on the spot, I like to be off the hip, if you will, on the stage, like that's where I'm having a good time and most people like Jesse, you're freaking nuts.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I would never do that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, but for me it's amazing, like slow, planned out, itemized, step-by-step, not the kind of stress I enjoy now.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: So you got your master's, you got your engineer certificate, both huge right, worked to work for an engineering firm, went into construction and started a department, and so I want to make, I want to go here, so that people don't miss this.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: You went into construction new industry, not totally new, because you spent some time there but you went to this company and they said hey, stephanie, we need you to start our VDC department.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And you said, sure, not knowing how the hell to start a department or what the hell that even meant, and you did it anyways.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I was talking to my last interview with Clyde and we were talking about how we confuse the resources people have access to and call it potential.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: So I want to know what you think about this idea, because I'm trying to change my mind around this.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: What's clear is, I know the way to get impossible things done is to access every damn resource I have access to like period, because I don't have what it takes to do impossible things, but I know a bunch of people and they can help me get there, so that is resourcefulness.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Now, what we see in people, here's the question, or the thought I want you to kick around with me.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Many times, I've seen people and say man, they got so much potential.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take them here, right, I'm going to take them to the next level, I'm going to challenge them and grow them in a particular direction, and then they don't fulfill that, and then it's like well, untapped potential.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: What I was really seeing, though, was the resources they have access to.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing that they have a good mind for problem solving.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing that they're great communicators, I'm seeing that they have influence around the people in their circles, and I'm confusing that for potential.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: What I need to do is teach them how to be resourceful so that they can then leverage and grow that potential.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: What do you think of?
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Is that splitting hairs too fine there?
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting and I'm thinking I really hope this person doesn't watch this podcast.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, but when I was in middle school, there was someone in my class I won't even name the and so when you said potential, I immediately thought of this person and I remember one teacher described them as a sponge.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It may be like a separate maybe, I don't want to confuse the thing, but I always found that really cool.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Like they were sponge, they absorbed information.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I was like that's really cool.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I like the sponge concept, which is almost like the resourcefulness that you're talking about.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I have never liked the concept of potential, because I'm thinking again of that particular person and again.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that was an artistic, but I can't really say that they did anything extraordinary so far.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: So far.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: We're still young, we still got time.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got time time.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: The college they went to wasn't like they didn't go to MIT, it was just everything was just normal.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It's the fact that everyone was like this person is like Einstein, I think it like raised the level in such a weird and it was so unfair to that person because they were on like a different level than the rest of us.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Like we were just like whatever kid and this person I didn't even speak any english.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: They're like whatever it's that makes you the last, but this person is then everything and so right.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I've seen that along my career where there'd be like one person that stood up as this disperse is going places and they were like being groomed or like extra attention and they were getting taken out to lunches.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And I think that makes it really unfair to that person, because they learn to forget how to be resourceful, because they're just like things are just kind of coming their way and when something doesn't come their way, what do I do now?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: And so if we have to make camps of a resourcefulness camp and like a potential camp, I'm definitely on the resourceful camp and I'm okay there.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: No, I think you've helped me see it a little clearer because, yeah, in recent situations I say recent, when I say recent, I'm talking the last 10 years you remember the highlights.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Recent is relative I was on a path.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: The companies were grooming me for a particular path that I had absolutely no interest in and they were fancy like fancy, fancy pants.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: And I remember feeling I don't, why are y'all making me do this?
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I know a few people that want this stupid thing that you're like handing to me.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I don't care, You're going to put me in situations to be visible.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: And then I'm like you're wasting it on me and one of the conversations, well, what are you afraid of?
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I was like I'm not afraid of anything, I just have no interest in that thing.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I understand why you think I should be there and I appreciate that, but I don't want that.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I want this.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And so the resources that they made available to me to shoot down that path, I completely didn't do anything with them.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Now I chose to not use those resources, and I think I love the way you said it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: If there's a resource camp or a resourcefulness camp and a potential camp, let's go to the resourcefulness camp, and so I imagine, in terms of this idea of resourcefulness you built that you talked about you coming in as an immigrant and you're multilingual.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Like you didn't just say one language, how many?
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Let me guess I'm going to say four languages.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Is it four languages?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I guess when I moved it was technically four languages.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I ran out of parents to speak one of the languages left, so I don't speak one language anymore.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: So we are down to three freaking amazing.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: But learning a new language and connecting and being like, I'll just say, surviving that experience is not easy, like it requires some significant resourcefulness just to use your environment to communicate right, because at that point that's what it's going to take, and only reason I know that is because one of my ex-wives her parents only spoke Spanish and at this time in my life this was way, way back I didn't speak any Spanish, so I had to like I'm thirsty, you know, like I had to use my coffee, like I had to use my environment to communicate.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: So, anyways, so you did the VDC thing, which is no small thing, and I love the way you're just so genuine and humble about.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I started a VDC department, spent a bunch of time there, and then you shifted into like a whole other different galaxy.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is correct.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I shifted to a whole other galaxy.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess just fill in a couple of holds there.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: So I kind of knew that I was reaching the end of my construction journey.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I was reaching the end of my construction journey, I was studying for the PE and I passed the PE and then nothing happened.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And I think any woman that's listening to this you know that there are certainly things that are a little bit harder.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: The pregnancy was hard because of my environment and I had my baby and said I can't go back to that environment, I'm too upset, I'm too stressed the bad stress now because I have to clarify that I'm too upset, I can't go back and I have this baby.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I was fortunate to take the time to be with baby.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I was also kind of confused because, if we go like a little bit further, I really believe that there were two paths for me as a civil engineer.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: There was the engineering, there was construction.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I had now done both and it was like five years into my career and I was like I don't like either of these and I'm supposed to work for a long time.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: What do I do?
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Simple math, it was simple.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Both part of math right there and I was honestly just really just shocked.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I had interviewed prior, while I was pregnant, with some construction tech companies, so it kind of opened up my eyes, but a lot of different things happened.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: None of those were all panned out and so I was nervous Is this even possible for me?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Can I even go?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Did anyone in construction tech actually want me?
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Because the feedback I was getting was honestly not good.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I think it wasn't necessarily towards me.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: In hindsight, with the perspective I have now, I think those specific companies have broken hiring system and then ISIS said that to me.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: They obviously don't want me because they're on this 15th interview process and that's their problem.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: It's not me.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: That took me a while to get there, though I can say a lot of these things now it's been like a few years and I'm like yeah, it wasn't them, it wasn't me.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: At the time I was like it is me, I'm the problem.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: So I said at the time I think I'm fortunate enough to take seven to eight months off work and the biggest realization I had during that time was like I love my career, I really want to go back to work, I love it and I have a sense of fulfillment at work, building something, contributing to a team that I really miss and that I crave.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I want to go to contributing to a team that I really miss and that I crave and want to go to, but I also had all these experiences that I didn't like, that had taken so much energy out of me that, if I'm going to go back to work, I'm not currently working.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be so picky about what I want yeah.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I love it yes.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And again back to that earlier conversation about advocating for yourself.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Like at this point I was looking at myself in the mirror and saying this is what you bring to a company.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And because you kind of have to pump yourself up in these moments, I was like, and these are pretty cool things, like I've done some cool things, I can contribute these to a company.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Let's find the right match this time, because previously we haven't done that.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: So there's one thing I want to touch on there is and there's a balance, and it took me a long time to learn this, long, long time.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: When I have a body of work, I did it wrong on both sides of the fence, meaning before I started my business.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I had this plan right.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I had to do these different things so that I could build up credibility, so that I could start a business, so that I could have business.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that I already had credibility.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: So on one side of the, let's say, camps, there's two camps.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: There's probably more, but I just want to talk about two.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: One camp is we have credibility because we have contributed in the industry or in a specific area.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: We have experience, we've delivered value, we've contributed to happiness to other people, and that has value.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: But we undervalue it.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: And, more specifically, I did.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I couldn't, I was blind to it because I didn't have the credentials and whatever Bunch of reasons that I couldn't see the credibility, I couldn't see my body of work, which is funny, because the first 10 years of my career I was like what do you mean?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: I got to wait in line.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: What interview?
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You're not just going to offer me all the money, like why am I not for real?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I just I don't know if I've told you this the first like real job, I had was working at Kentucky fried chicken.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Have you ever KFC?
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think I ever had eaten KFC.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: No.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, you got to try the extra tasty.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Crispy girl is good fried chicken.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, I was whatever 16 years old.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I quit after a month.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: You want to know why?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Tell me.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Because I didn't get employee of the month.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: So that's the other side of the coin, that's the other camp, right, like I was convinced that everybody owed me recognition and accolades and access just for being present, and so that was.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I was younger back then.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Now I did that when I was 16 and I continued to operate that way until I was probably 25, 28 years old and I finally was like, oh, I don't know as much as I think I know.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: So me making these, what I thought were just natural demands were really way out of.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I had no business asking for that, or rather, had no business expecting that.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: So there's two coins there, right?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Or two sides.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Now I undervalue my value, if you will, or I'm blind to my body of work.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: That's after I got highlights, before I got highlights.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: It's come on, man, why ain't y'all throwing me parades and giving me employee of the month every month before I even start working with you?
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: And so when you're working with people because I know you're coaching folks right Do you find them more leaning in the?
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: They're just blind to the value that they actually have, or do you see them leaning more in the?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Where's my damn parade, jesse style?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Let's say, the people I work with I think undervalue themselves a lot.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I see it a lot.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: For me, it really shines through in interviews when we talk about, like how they talk about themselves in an interview.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Tell me about yourself, especially as we relate to a career pivot, I think it's really.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I remember meeting with somebody and they were like, well, I usually tell them how I don't have the experience they need me to have because I'm trying to pivot, and I was like, listen back to how that sounds.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: The hiring manager wants to hire somebody that has experience and you, flat out, are telling them I don't have the experience you're looking for, which, on the surface, might be true, but you need that needs to get packaged in a whole different way for that to come out correctly, and so I think that's a really important distinction.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Also, you said something earlier about what you bring to the table throughout your career.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: If we've got any listeners that are maybe in school or you guys don't have a lot of experience, I think it's really important to focus on the fact that you still had a really important perspective, even if it's more your own experience.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: You're coming at things from a really different perspective and that perspective is really important, even if you don't have X number of years in the industry.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I always hated that when people told me you can't say anything until you have five years or 10 years or 20 years of experience, because it was like, maybe my idea sucks, maybe my opinion sucks, but I wanted to hear it.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cause you're a human being, right, you're contribute.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, doesn't mean we're going to run with your idea, but, thank you, I expect you to contribute and that's, I would say that's, a form of self-advocation.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: So now, so you figured out.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to cut you off for a second because I wanted to answer the last question or kind of make a note that I certainly do struggle sometimes with wanting my own athlete.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of the human tendency, especially earlier in your career, like you want to get that recognition.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes it has felt in the past, especially like my first job, where it was going to make me stand out.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: That's what's going to move me up to the next level, whatever that means.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really hard thing.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Like you want to do a good job.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I believe that most people in their job want to do a good job and I think sometimes it's hard when people around you are getting big pats on the back and you're not, because those pats on the back, I'll say, especially during my time in construction, those pats on the back can come through the form of going out to lunch.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And I remember specifically I asked somebody like why do I never get taken out to lunch?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: It very rarely happens.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: And I was like why don't I get to go to lunch?
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: And someone told me well, it looks kind of bad if your male boss, or whoever it is, takes out the female in the office to lunch and I remember sitting in my office thinking about that and saying what am I supposed to do with that information?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: So I'm not getting the opportunity to like rub elbows just because I'm a woman.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Well, how does that?
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: disqualify me.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: And what do you do with that?
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Because it's not something that I'm going to change.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I got schooled by a super awesome HR professional because I wouldn't mentor women, I wouldn't invite women, like in construction, on the job site with the company, have a one-on-one lunch with the lady or breakfast.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: But here's why the reason I didn't do it is because for and this is garbage, right, stuff, that garbage that I carried with me from when I lived a different life, life, I will just say, from well, just my maybe mid-teen years to late 20 years.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: If I shared space with the lady, the assumption from everybody around us was that there was some kind of romantic exchange and I didn't want to do that to them.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Right, like in my head, it's like I can't because people are going to assume we hooked up or whatever.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And anyways, my HR person, she was like Jesse, why don't you mentor any ladies?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: You can connect and coach in a group, but you never have one-on-one stuff.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, because I don't want anybody to think that there's something going on between us.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I don't want to ruin or tarnish the reputation or whatever, and she's just, but that's not fair.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like how is it not fair?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: And she kind of helped me see, no, like you're shortchanging them, dumb, dumb.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm like she said when's the last time anybody accused you of that?
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like 30 pounds ago.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I'm not that much of a threat anymore.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I meant 30 years, 30 years, it was a long time and so, anyways, then I kind of she's like oh, wait a minute, this is my baggage and it's not okay for me to pour or to shortchange anybody because of my old baggage.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm not saying that in defense of anybody, except that you just reminded me I had hard rules about I don't date anybody that I work with, and so one-on-one lunch was close to that.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't going to do that with a woman and that's not okay.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: We have a long way to go, but like being what's the word I'm going to say being put on the shelf for things that you had absolutely no control over does not feel good, and too many people do that with intent.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I would say even more people do it without intent, and we just need to get better at it.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish it was one of those things that I could say was an isolated incident, but I've never really felt what's it like being a woman in a male dominated industry.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I grew up with brothers in that environment.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I've always been in that environment.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: But now that I'm in this space I've had a lot more time to reflect on like, where have those points hit in my career?
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: And it was scary to look in the mirror and notice like how many points in my life a comment was made I missed out on something where it was purely because of my gender, which was always really challenging because you guys always knew what the situation was and what could I have gotten if that wasn't the case.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I don't like playing one of those games but I think it's really challenging.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: I find it really triggering hearing about the construction labor shortage, knowing that, just like Mimi, there's a ton of great women that are just incredible powerhouses, resourcefulness, great but just like me, they've decided to take a step back from pure construction because they didn't like how they were treated or they weren't able to get like the balance with their lives that they wanted.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: They weren't supportive of mom, the balance with their lives that they wanted.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: They weren't supported as men.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: There's just so much there.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: So it is certainly one of my guiding principles, goals, to just help those women not just women, but, you know, especially women.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Just know also that, like you can find a meaningful career that also is supportive of who you are as you morph and change and develop throughout your life.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: But there are jobs out there that do offer a little bit more flexibility so that you can be happy eventually.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, I know I took us way off in 10 different tangents, but you were talking about.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: You finally figured out.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: These are the criteria of my next career move.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: It's going to be these things or nothing.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And so now you're in or are you carving out a different path, as like concurrent paths there?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was really picky.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: I actually writing, working on some content, and realized that I only interviewed for one job.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of phone screens and I essentially was like this is for me, but I ended up only interviewing one company for two jobs but one company, and then just ended up getting one job and I think Didn't give you both of the jobs.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I'm only one person and I think a lot of it just had to do with the criteria of what was important to me and not budging and not saying, oh, like we can reevaluate the salary in six months.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: No, I know what I want right now.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, I think, as I was working and actually being happy, I realized that I had a lot more time.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I used to spend a lot of time being frustrated, coming home and like recount, like he said this and then she said that and this email came out and that phone call and then figuring out what I was going to do the next day.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't do any of that anymore.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I was left with my own thoughts in the evenings and was like, well, can I take some of the things I've learned and help somebody else?
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Can I flip it around?
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Can anybody out there learn from one of my mistakes?
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And so I started on this journey of posting content.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Eventually, that led me to LinkedIn, to all the amazing people out there, to you, jessie.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I saw one of the commuter chats that you did with Matt Graves I think it was a while ago, one of the earlier ones and was like, wow, these people are so vulnerable.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Am I uncomfortable or do I secretly love it?
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Because when I was really struggling, I probably didn't do a good enough job trying to find somebody that looked like me or talked like me or had similar experiences than me, sharing themselves, and so this was very.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: This was a little bit of a dream, but it was like, well, can I be that person for somebody else?
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: And that's where I'm at.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I am almost been a year of posting consistently on LinkedIn all kinds of very vulnerable things which, funny enough, whenever I post something vulnerable, I feel like nobody cares.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: People comment and get engaged, but no one's like oh God.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: All the things in your head don't come out in the comments.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: right, yeah, I'm like is everyone missing a fraud?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there hasn't been any like pitchforks or anything.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Very grateful for that.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember what the question was, but that's my answer.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you answered it Like you've made your.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: You had one interview, thank you, interviewing for two jobs.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: You got the Thank you that for somebody else, that feeling or that level of awareness of all of a sudden.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I've experienced it in that I was client and I got to a point like wait a minute, I think I could help other people.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: How that happens exactly, I don't know, but once I got there, man, my life has been ultra amazing because I'm working in service to others and and I think I want to make sure I say this and pick on Jennifer Lacey, because Jennifer and I have been having these conversations what often happens and maybe it's a question for you, stephanie we get to this point and all of a sudden we realize all the experience, the life experience that we've had, we've only been using it for ourself and that we can use it for somebody else, or we could have been helping people and we failed to do that.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: And then there's this kind of guilt, gray, dark, murky space that we can get stuck in.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Did you experience that at all, or was it pretty?
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go save the world.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: No, I was terrified.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I've always had like entrepreneurial dream.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I'll say I've always wanted to do something that was mine and I've never really.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: And I've done different things.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I've done consulting, I've tried different things, but there was always something that was holding me back, like it didn't feel right, it wasn't the right opportunity, it didn't work with my job, like whatever the situation might have been.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And I think then I realized that when today's day and age, if you want to do something, social media, just you kind of have to do it.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: So I had this desire of wanting to start creating content.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Everyone sees the videos on TikTok or whatnot.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Like you post three videos, you go viral, you make a million bucks and then you go to Bora and you drink Mai Tais on the beach.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: And so I thought, hey, wouldn't it be cool if I posted three videos on TikTok and I went viral, got a million bucks and we went to the beach in Bora.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Can't you tell that's where I am?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: But I laugh about it now, but at the time I got to that realization of being like this is something that I want to do, this is something I'm interested in doing, and I was terrified.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I did some coaching on one of those coaching ads, better Up with one of them, partum.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I really needed that.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: If anyone would recommend, if you had access to that through work, 10 out of 10.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: And so I started talking to my coach about it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I want to do this, but I don't know.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I'm scared of something.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: And she suggested, like why don't you just write down a list?
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Force yourself to write down like five things that you're afraid of?
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: And it's one of those things that, like if someone were to ask you, you're just like, yeah, I'm just afraid of looking stupid.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: But if you sit down and you actually make a list, force yourself to sit down and make a list and say, okay, you're afraid of looking stupid.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Cool, why, or who, who's going to make you feel stupid?
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: And I actually wrote down a list of like I don't know seven, eight people that I was like what if they see my videos or my content?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: And they're like Stephanie, she's so cringe.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm laughing about this now.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: But in the moment, this was everything.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: And I realized as I'm looking through this list of the people who were essentially the reason why I wasn't starting what I thought I really wanted to do.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: They honestly didn't care.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Like I have some of them with people that were just kind of acquaintances.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: But I thought they were really cool people and I was like what if they see that?
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: And they were like, oh, stephanie's weird, and so it was a bunch of that kind of thing.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: And I think when I actually saw the list and had to look my fears in the eyes, I was like these people don't have that much control over me that I'm not even gonna to cry there.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: So I was definitely afraid.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's rather.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I know it's natural, because every time I'm going to post a Chewy video and I haven't done one in a while I get anxious about it.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Like when I wrote the book, I was fine with it, until my mom said, mijo, people are going to read this.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, yeah, and she's like, but you put everything in there.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I guess that's the point.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, but you have a business.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: What if people don't want to work with you?
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh shit, I didn't think about that.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And guess what?
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Nobody has said we're not working with you anymore.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Actually, what people say is man, part of the reason we pick you is because of the real stuff that you've been through.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like oh okay, but my point is hell, yes, it's scary, but it's all in our head.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Because you've done it now and I've seen you've increased the frequency.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, your vulnerability, you've become more and more vulnerable.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I see it.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: I love that when I see people getting vulnerable.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: This is good stuff, because you could easily be using chat gpt to produce garbage, because a lot of people are doing that and you're not.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: You're sharing your story, your experience, and again people are gonna say man, jesse's gushing over her.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: What I ultimately love is you're using all your life experience the pains, the frustrations, the courageous, scary, terrifying, brave things that you've done to help other people.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: And so now you have a free PDF download, a checklist, one-on-one coaching calls.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: You're building a group.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: You've got all kinds of stuff cooking up, sister.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: How do people get in contact or access to all the goodness you're offering right now?
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Sure, so right now you can always slide into my latest DM.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I do my best to respond to those.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I just love seeing that slide into my DM.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: It sounds so fabulous so you can always message me on there.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: But the different things I have going on right now are that my career pivot guide that I love it will forever be my baby.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Four steps on, like how to pivot your career, from figuring out whether it's actually time to pivot all the way to working on that like pivot story that we talked about.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: So you're not like I don't have the experience, so that whole process.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: And then I actually just released a LinkedIn messaging playbook.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I'm fancy, but it's got like a whole bunch of templates in it.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: So if you're like I really want to connect with people but I'm really nervous about what to say, it's got a whole bunch of templates and then a whole bunch of follow-up questions so you can dig deeper.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: So you're not like I sent the intro message Now questions, so you can dig deeper.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: So you're not like I sent the intro message.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Now what do I do?
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of terrible dm's.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: So which?
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Please still dm me.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Don't be a mind that I'm gonna blast your dm.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: But no, I think this has really been my answer to.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important to like really leverage LinkedIn as part of the job search process, and so I'm like I can't just say that all day.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I just provide some resources on how to do that and yeah, that's that.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: And then working on a LinkedIn kind of community on how to leverage LinkedIn for either if you're posting or for job searching.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: So that'll hopefully go live in the fall.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, check out my page, hit me with a follow and tell me what you thought about this.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love it.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: We'll make sure to put your thing, your LinkedIn thing, in the show notes so people can connect with you.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: And I got to be on your webinar and I got to connect with some super cool like.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: It was just a cool vibe and it was clear what?
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Again?
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Because you're awesome.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: The people that were there were just really cool people, looking to connect, looking to make a change, looking to learn something new, and it's that energy that motivates and inspires me.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: So I can only guess how awesome the communities that you're building going forward are going to be, because I got like a taste test of the first iteration and it was great.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Be because I got like a taste test of the first iteration and it was great, and it was because I say this, the caliber of people that were there in terms of human beings right, I'm not talking about careers and titles and credentials, I'm just talking about human beings.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: It was clear to me that you attract awesome people and so folks if you don't know that Stephanie's awesome and, by the way, steph, I don't know if you like achieved your goal to have the same reaction that your brother did when everybody heard he was an engineer and they said oh, he's so smart, but you're pretty damn awesome.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I think you're really freaking smart and the things that you've overcome and accomplished and are now contributing forward are freaking amazing.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Like you're an amazing human being and I'm grateful that you would even give me time to like, bug you and talk to you and interrupt you when you're sharing all your genius I love it.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: No, I'm gonna stop you right there.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Stop you right there.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: But also, like you've been a huge supporter of me and my content and, yes, it's very easy to look at my page and say I post a lot and things look good, it's still really hard, like I still have days where I'm like I don't want to post or what am I even doing here, bring this whole thing to the ground.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: But it's really people like you, jesse, who are down to give feedback and just positive encouragement and just your vulnerability that makes it feel okay for me to be vulnerable or for others to feel vulnerable.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: So it's really awesome to be part of this kind of like ecosystem and I appreciate your support through all of it.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, jhene.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Like I said at the beginning, I feel like I haven't stopped smiling throughout this whole thing.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like my energy has been written for this.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that and, more than anything we do go through like tougher patches of careers or projects that we work on, it's so important to just have that community of people who have done it before or who have done similar aspects to it, so you can be in that community of being validated by your own feelings.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: You're welcome and thank you, stephanie.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Now are you ready for the big question.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I'm so nervous.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: So, Miss Stephanie, we know how amazing you are.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: So, miss Stephanie, we know how amazing you are.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Nobody can really predict the future, except that I believe you're going to have immense impact and contribute to many, many lives.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: And with that in mind, what is the promise that you are intended to be?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: It is a big question.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: I think, no matter what I do, I've never been one to set this is my five-year plan or my 10-year plan, I think, for me.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I've always really been guided by this sounds selfish, but by being happy and making the people around me happy.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I think that as I've gotten older and I've become a mom, I realized, like, how important it is you really only have one life and I know that's super cliche to say but you, the people around you, they're, you are their everything, and so it's so important to make sure that you give to them, but also that you give to yourself.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: And so I don't know if that's fully answering your question, but maybe that's just where I'm at today.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: I think that is a fabulous question, particularly because you got to take care of yourself.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: You got to give and give.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: That's what we're here for, but you can't give unless you're taking care of yourself.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: So I completely love that.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Did you have fun?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I had a blast.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like you know another three hours, but no one's going to listen to a 17 hour podcast.